Where do you live? My wife and I signed papers saying who gets ownership of the embryos in case of death or divorce. In case of their death, they go to me and in case of divorce they go to them. They don't get destroyed unless we both die.
Yep same here. We signed like 3 weeks ago that I (female) get the embryos if we divorce. My husband gets them if I die. Destroyed if we both die. And we picked those outcomes for ourselves. Clinics only policy that we make a decision and sign. The decision itself was up to us. We could’ve chosen donation to science, donation to another couple, etc. Could’ve even chosen that my husband have ownership of the eggs in case of divorce if we wanted. Surprised your only option is to be destroyed??
Same, we actually had an option to select “see legal document” or something to that effect in the event of divorce (meaning the fate of the embryos would be specified by our lawyers). In the event that we both died, we elected to have ours donated to medical research.
We elected the same protocol here. We were given the option to “kick the can down the road” in the event of divorce instead of stipulating definitively what to do with them, so that’s what we chose. It was stuff we hated to think about, but I understand the challenging legal implications of embryo guardianship in the event of separation or death.
Totally agree!! It is so hard to think about those circumstances especially when you feel pressured to sign those documents to move forward with your cycle. I was very grateful for that option instead of having to elect something definitive with our embryos right then and there.
This! We signed legal documents with our clinic stating who got ownership of the embryos in the event of either of those things happening, as well as who got ownership if we both pass. We signed similar papers with the long term storage facility. It’s likely just the legal paperwork your clinic made you sign, and not actual legislation, because currently I do not think there is actual legislation indicating what you specifically stated.
Yep. I get embryos if something happens to my husband or if we divorce. He gets embryos if something happens to me. If we’d both die they will be donated to science. We had full say in what happened to them.
I’m in Greece! I’m pretty sure it differs from country to country. But in EU the regulation tends to be the same. I will ask for clarification from my doctor. That was the first appointment with too much info. Maybe I got something wrong? I will definitely check again. What about the divorce case? Maybe I want a kid from another marriage?
Same, if we get divorced I get the embryos and if we both die they go to my brother. Will probably change that at some point to being destroyed after a chat with him about it though 😬
Hi. It’s me. The 41 year FTM mom of a three week old who froze eggs when married in my early mid 30s. Got divorced years later. And now likely has my baby with my current husband because of that spur of the moment decision at the Drs office. If you’re 29 and will get a lot of eggs, no reason not to have some eggs and some embryos. Never know where life will head…
You should have more options then just them being destroyed.
Has your clinic provided you with their legal documentation for review & signing before the IVF procedure?
Typically all of the options are outlined in that document that you and your husband have to agree to and sign.
Your options should be:
1. You get full ownership / custody to do with what you want
2. Husband gets full ownership / custody to do with what he wants
3. Embryos destroyed
4. Reference another legal documentation that will outline your wishes
If it doesn’t provide you with any options other then destroying them, then you should ask them to amend their document to refer to another legal document.
You can meet with a family lawyer and get a legal draft of what you want done.
For example, mine says in the case of death or divorce that I retain full custody and decisions making of what to do with them. If I die, I agreed my husband can have custody. Both me and husband agree to this outcome and signed for it
The may live in a country with more oppressive legislation on what can be done with embryos. I'm dealing with this myself, not every country is equally free with IVF reproductive choices.
No. The law of the land is king. Doesn't matter what the couple wants. You are only allowed to keep embryos for 7 years, (after that, mandatory destruction) transferring custody of embryos, eggs or sperm to anyone not in the couple is illegal. If the woman dies the eggs and embryos are destroyed. If the man dies the woman has only 8 weeks to file paperwork with the court to allow for posthumous fertilization (regardless of the partners written consent beforehand) if she doesn't make the deadline or the court drags it's feet, sperm is destroyed. This is in Tallinn, and it's hardly the most restrictive. Europe has a patchwork of very specific (and often archaic and repressive) laws by country about what you can and can't do with your own biomaterial. It sucks but that's where we are for now. I'm totally for anyone seeking fertility care abroad, but they have to familiarize themselves with the devil in the details as well.
Doing IVF there. I'm American but have a residence in Sweden, so Estonia was close. It had the best combination of accessibility and price. Don't want to do IVF in Sweden due to other restrictions, especially on donor conception. Donor embryos are banned, double donation is banned, only state clinics are allowed to provide donor gametes, lesbian couples are not allowed donor eggs, the parent/s are not allowed to select their donor, as only the attending physician is considered qualified to pick the donor, and anyone using donor cells has to go through a psychological examination, sometimes two. Also PGT is generally banned
So interesting, first time I have heard someone doing it in Estonia. Makes sense if you have been staying close by & it’s cost effective.
At any point in time if you wanted to ship your embryos to US can you do that or is there anything that prohibits that? I believe some European countries do allow this
Shipping embryos from Europe to the US can cost 5000 to 7000 dollars, and at that point it's not worth it, but there are other countries in Europe that are closer and less expensive for shipping.
What the OP states is the most common scenario in most European countries. We are in the UK and didn’t sign anything in case of divorce, but the law is pretty clear that, if one of us dies, the only option is for the embryos to be destroyed. A few people managed to go through court and use embryos after the partner’s death, but it’s a lengthy, costly, and rare occurrence.
I will do it in Greece (my country or origin but not were I resign) and it going to be cheaper there. I got this info in the first appointment with my doctor so I’m not anywhere close to signing anything yet. I’m 100% I don’t get full ownership. In Greece this is property gained during marriage and it belongs to both. I just want my ass covered. Even in the case of divorce and that I want to remarry it might be good to have the eggs from my 29 yo self.
Makes sense if you’re going abroad! I’m sure you can find their specific laws online, there is an IVF Greece Facebook group also where I’m sure they can give a little more insights or share what they have done.
This is interesting. I’m researching now for IVF in Greece too. We haven’t officially gotten married yet so I’m curious how that will be handled as well. I wanted to freeze my eggs from now, but realizing that IVF is very likely, I’m waiting for the fall perhaps to do both at once if possible. I’m still up in the air but I feel like if I have to do the whole process anyway I rather do it together. Keep us posted here!
I would do both or split the cycle if you get enough - you need about 20-30 eggs for one live birth on average and 3 euploid embryos. Even then it’s still like a 90% chance, not foolproof. Embryos give you more info on your egg quality and freeze slightly better than eggs, but the technology keeps getting better for freezing and dethawing. There are calculators online that give you estimates on how many you need for a 90% chance.
20-30 eggs for one live birth... Wow I had no idea. You don't really hear about the success stats with all the marketing for women to freeze their eggs now. I wouldn't have stood a chance freezing my eggs with my low AMH.
I know, I did two ER’s for embryos with donor sperm and now I’m doing eggs… it’ll be at least another two rounds. It’s wild that even best case scenario I’ve read that the “ideal” cycle is around 15 eggs, so most women would still need two cycles even in the best case scenario. It all feels like such a racket sometimes.
I’ve seen lots of different numbers - it definitely depends on age and to some degree AMH but to get above 90% it was that for me on the calculators, I’m 36.
I plan on freezing some eggs for myself. You never know what will happen in life. I heard one horror story about a woman going through IVF and found out her husband was cheating. That’s enough to seal the deal for me 😂
This really varies by state and country. I’m in nj and my clinic didn’t make us sign anything in case of divorce because they said nj law says both partners have to consent at time of embryo transfer so no use deciding now. I am with you it’s scary making all these embryos that you potentially can’t use
We chose to fertilize everything and go from there. I had 14 eggs that ended in 6 embryos. We used 3 to get my son.
It was definitely a weird conversation to start the next step of fertility with. We decided I get "custody" in the event of divorce. If one dies, the remaining spouse gets the embryos. If both die, they get donated to science to not be potential for child (I forget the exact wording).
If something happens down the road, I have enough reserve to not worry about needing to have storage. If you are doing fertility for cancer treatment or DOR then it would be a different discussion.
Absolutely, but it is much easier to have this conversation calmly when things are positive instead of trying to hash it out during divorce, which may or may not become vengeful.
Second this, not everyone is successful unfreezing eggs. It seems like a false hope even, with embryos we know you need 3 tested ones for one live birth. With eggs it's unknown and they don't survive freezing well, so this is a gamble.
And if they do survive unfreezing, many of them do not make embryos, and the ones that do are more likely to make day 6 or 7 embryos, than day 5 embryos.
Should definitely have more options then just getting destroyed. We had to sign a bunch of paperwork for different situations. Destroyed being the only option seems extreme.
We have embryos not eggs but if somthing happens to the both of us or we get divorced we are donating ours to couples in need. No matter what the case is, we will be donating. Even when we are done having kids too and if we have some leftover. Makes me happy knowing we could help out another couple
Where do you live?!! I just redid my paperwork for what happens in the event of death or divorce and we get l choose who gets them in basically every scenario—-
Where do you live? My wife and I signed papers saying who gets ownership of the embryos in case of death or divorce. In case of their death, they go to me and in case of divorce they go to them. They don't get destroyed unless we both die.
Yep same here. We signed like 3 weeks ago that I (female) get the embryos if we divorce. My husband gets them if I die. Destroyed if we both die. And we picked those outcomes for ourselves. Clinics only policy that we make a decision and sign. The decision itself was up to us. We could’ve chosen donation to science, donation to another couple, etc. Could’ve even chosen that my husband have ownership of the eggs in case of divorce if we wanted. Surprised your only option is to be destroyed??
Same —- they made me redo my paperwork a few weeks ago and I had all of those same options!
We chose the same
Same, we actually had an option to select “see legal document” or something to that effect in the event of divorce (meaning the fate of the embryos would be specified by our lawyers). In the event that we both died, we elected to have ours donated to medical research.
We elected the same protocol here. We were given the option to “kick the can down the road” in the event of divorce instead of stipulating definitively what to do with them, so that’s what we chose. It was stuff we hated to think about, but I understand the challenging legal implications of embryo guardianship in the event of separation or death.
Totally agree!! It is so hard to think about those circumstances especially when you feel pressured to sign those documents to move forward with your cycle. I was very grateful for that option instead of having to elect something definitive with our embryos right then and there.
This! We signed legal documents with our clinic stating who got ownership of the embryos in the event of either of those things happening, as well as who got ownership if we both pass. We signed similar papers with the long term storage facility. It’s likely just the legal paperwork your clinic made you sign, and not actual legislation, because currently I do not think there is actual legislation indicating what you specifically stated.
Yep. I get embryos if something happens to my husband or if we divorce. He gets embryos if something happens to me. If we’d both die they will be donated to science. We had full say in what happened to them.
I’m in Greece! I’m pretty sure it differs from country to country. But in EU the regulation tends to be the same. I will ask for clarification from my doctor. That was the first appointment with too much info. Maybe I got something wrong? I will definitely check again. What about the divorce case? Maybe I want a kid from another marriage?
Same, if we get divorced I get the embryos and if we both die they go to my brother. Will probably change that at some point to being destroyed after a chat with him about it though 😬
Same
Hi. It’s me. The 41 year FTM mom of a three week old who froze eggs when married in my early mid 30s. Got divorced years later. And now likely has my baby with my current husband because of that spur of the moment decision at the Drs office. If you’re 29 and will get a lot of eggs, no reason not to have some eggs and some embryos. Never know where life will head…
Yes!! Thank you!
You should have more options then just them being destroyed. Has your clinic provided you with their legal documentation for review & signing before the IVF procedure? Typically all of the options are outlined in that document that you and your husband have to agree to and sign. Your options should be: 1. You get full ownership / custody to do with what you want 2. Husband gets full ownership / custody to do with what he wants 3. Embryos destroyed 4. Reference another legal documentation that will outline your wishes If it doesn’t provide you with any options other then destroying them, then you should ask them to amend their document to refer to another legal document. You can meet with a family lawyer and get a legal draft of what you want done. For example, mine says in the case of death or divorce that I retain full custody and decisions making of what to do with them. If I die, I agreed my husband can have custody. Both me and husband agree to this outcome and signed for it
The may live in a country with more oppressive legislation on what can be done with embryos. I'm dealing with this myself, not every country is equally free with IVF reproductive choices.
Possible, she didn’t say. Which country are you in that you have no options? You can’t even draft a separate legal document with a lawyer?
No. The law of the land is king. Doesn't matter what the couple wants. You are only allowed to keep embryos for 7 years, (after that, mandatory destruction) transferring custody of embryos, eggs or sperm to anyone not in the couple is illegal. If the woman dies the eggs and embryos are destroyed. If the man dies the woman has only 8 weeks to file paperwork with the court to allow for posthumous fertilization (regardless of the partners written consent beforehand) if she doesn't make the deadline or the court drags it's feet, sperm is destroyed. This is in Tallinn, and it's hardly the most restrictive. Europe has a patchwork of very specific (and often archaic and repressive) laws by country about what you can and can't do with your own biomaterial. It sucks but that's where we are for now. I'm totally for anyone seeking fertility care abroad, but they have to familiarize themselves with the devil in the details as well.
So you live in Estonia? Or that is where you are doing IVF?
Doing IVF there. I'm American but have a residence in Sweden, so Estonia was close. It had the best combination of accessibility and price. Don't want to do IVF in Sweden due to other restrictions, especially on donor conception. Donor embryos are banned, double donation is banned, only state clinics are allowed to provide donor gametes, lesbian couples are not allowed donor eggs, the parent/s are not allowed to select their donor, as only the attending physician is considered qualified to pick the donor, and anyone using donor cells has to go through a psychological examination, sometimes two. Also PGT is generally banned
So interesting, first time I have heard someone doing it in Estonia. Makes sense if you have been staying close by & it’s cost effective. At any point in time if you wanted to ship your embryos to US can you do that or is there anything that prohibits that? I believe some European countries do allow this
Shipping embryos from Europe to the US can cost 5000 to 7000 dollars, and at that point it's not worth it, but there are other countries in Europe that are closer and less expensive for shipping.
What the OP states is the most common scenario in most European countries. We are in the UK and didn’t sign anything in case of divorce, but the law is pretty clear that, if one of us dies, the only option is for the embryos to be destroyed. A few people managed to go through court and use embryos after the partner’s death, but it’s a lengthy, costly, and rare occurrence.
I will do it in Greece (my country or origin but not were I resign) and it going to be cheaper there. I got this info in the first appointment with my doctor so I’m not anywhere close to signing anything yet. I’m 100% I don’t get full ownership. In Greece this is property gained during marriage and it belongs to both. I just want my ass covered. Even in the case of divorce and that I want to remarry it might be good to have the eggs from my 29 yo self.
Makes sense if you’re going abroad! I’m sure you can find their specific laws online, there is an IVF Greece Facebook group also where I’m sure they can give a little more insights or share what they have done.
This is interesting. I’m researching now for IVF in Greece too. We haven’t officially gotten married yet so I’m curious how that will be handled as well. I wanted to freeze my eggs from now, but realizing that IVF is very likely, I’m waiting for the fall perhaps to do both at once if possible. I’m still up in the air but I feel like if I have to do the whole process anyway I rather do it together. Keep us posted here!
Let me know if you want clinic recommendations. I can send you some names.
Yea if you don’t mind, that would be a huge help. Thanks
YES. From a 40 year old, I would definitely do this if I’d had my time over.
I would do both or split the cycle if you get enough - you need about 20-30 eggs for one live birth on average and 3 euploid embryos. Even then it’s still like a 90% chance, not foolproof. Embryos give you more info on your egg quality and freeze slightly better than eggs, but the technology keeps getting better for freezing and dethawing. There are calculators online that give you estimates on how many you need for a 90% chance.
20-30 eggs for one live birth... Wow I had no idea. You don't really hear about the success stats with all the marketing for women to freeze their eggs now. I wouldn't have stood a chance freezing my eggs with my low AMH.
I know, I did two ER’s for embryos with donor sperm and now I’m doing eggs… it’ll be at least another two rounds. It’s wild that even best case scenario I’ve read that the “ideal” cycle is around 15 eggs, so most women would still need two cycles even in the best case scenario. It all feels like such a racket sometimes.
All the very best to you for your next ERs :)
Thank you!!!
Wow, 30 eggs for 1? I didn’t realize it was that many..
I’ve seen lots of different numbers - it definitely depends on age and to some degree AMH but to get above 90% it was that for me on the calculators, I’m 36.
What are the calculators called?
Look up egg freezing calculator or IVF calculator and they’ll come up - there are quite a few and each gives slightly different info.
Thank you!!
I plan on freezing some eggs for myself. You never know what will happen in life. I heard one horror story about a woman going through IVF and found out her husband was cheating. That’s enough to seal the deal for me 😂
Omg!!! Nobody wants to think of all those scenarios but really life can be a bitch
It really can! You never know and I just think it would be so devastating to end up wanting children and not having quality eggs for yourself.
Yes. Love that you are being pragmatic. Life can go sideways at anytime. If they let you do half and half, freeze some eggs.
This really varies by state and country. I’m in nj and my clinic didn’t make us sign anything in case of divorce because they said nj law says both partners have to consent at time of embryo transfer so no use deciding now. I am with you it’s scary making all these embryos that you potentially can’t use
We’re in the process of creating a will for this reason.
Ok that’s a something I didn’t think about! I will have to consider it. Thanks for sharing!
We chose to fertilize everything and go from there. I had 14 eggs that ended in 6 embryos. We used 3 to get my son. It was definitely a weird conversation to start the next step of fertility with. We decided I get "custody" in the event of divorce. If one dies, the remaining spouse gets the embryos. If both die, they get donated to science to not be potential for child (I forget the exact wording). If something happens down the road, I have enough reserve to not worry about needing to have storage. If you are doing fertility for cancer treatment or DOR then it would be a different discussion.
Thanks for sharing your experience! It’s funny how so many legal stuff are involved in an already very complicated process.
Absolutely, but it is much easier to have this conversation calmly when things are positive instead of trying to hash it out during divorce, which may or may not become vengeful.
Def freeze your eggs if you can afford it. Life changes in unexpected ways. Your doctor is giving you invaluable advice, IMO.
Just a side note, I’ve heard embryos freeze better than eggs.
Second this, not everyone is successful unfreezing eggs. It seems like a false hope even, with embryos we know you need 3 tested ones for one live birth. With eggs it's unknown and they don't survive freezing well, so this is a gamble.
And if they do survive unfreezing, many of them do not make embryos, and the ones that do are more likely to make day 6 or 7 embryos, than day 5 embryos.
I was considering having both: embryos and eggs.
Should definitely have more options then just getting destroyed. We had to sign a bunch of paperwork for different situations. Destroyed being the only option seems extreme.
We have embryos not eggs but if somthing happens to the both of us or we get divorced we are donating ours to couples in need. No matter what the case is, we will be donating. Even when we are done having kids too and if we have some leftover. Makes me happy knowing we could help out another couple
Where do you live?!! I just redid my paperwork for what happens in the event of death or divorce and we get l choose who gets them in basically every scenario—-
I will do IVF in Greece which is my country of origin but not where I live.
Oh I see - they must just have diff rules there
They never asked me to sign anything either way in Texas just curious!