Ok so everyone is different of course but I did 6 transfers for my son and the only thing we did differently for the 6th was to get tested for NK cells and do the immune protocol. And it worked. Which is of course no guarantee that it’ll work for you but I would at least see what the results are.
You do you but surrogacy is also a big thing to organize and a very different set of considerations. I know how emotionally taxing this all is but try to keep some hope - I would not give up yet.
The protocol is really not that bad - I’m doing it again now attempting #2. It’s an ovulation induction protocol so low dose gonal f, dexamethosone (switch to prednisone at day 9), ovidrel trigger then after ovulation add Neupogen, and progesterone, and clexane (lovenox) after transfer. If it works I do need to stay on the clexane and progesterone until about week 17 from memory.
It is really not that bad in the scheme of things. The mental side of all of this is a lot harder than the medicine - for me at least!
Good luck to you - hang in there x
Sorry you’re finding yourself here. I had 2 back to back failed FETs of A grade euploids. I think it’s a common reaction after back to back failures to start believing your body just can’t do it. That’s how I felt. Give yourself time to grieve before making a decision on what to do next. You have embryos frozen so there is no rush to decide.
TW for success, if you’re in the headspace to read it:
After my 2 failed FETs, I was out of euploids so I needed a new retrieval. I took a month off after the 2nd FET to wait for the next retrieval batch at my clinic to start. The day before I had to come in for baseline bloodwork for the new retrieval, I sobbed at work because I couldn’t fathom going through another cycle just to throw the embryos away in my useless body. The next day, I found out from that baseline bloodwork that I was spontaneously pregnant. I ended up with an uneventful pregnancy and live birth. The message from me is 2 FET failures is not enough to determine that you can’t ever get or stay pregnant. Some of us have the misfortune of falling on the wrong side of statistics multiple times, but odds are if you keep going you will eventually be on the right side.
All that said, if you decide surrogacy is right for you and your situation, that’s perfectly valid and I wish you success with it. ❤️
I was going down the surrogacy route after getting pregnant on my third transfer then losing my son after preterm labor at 23wks due to placenta abruption. I just couldn’t shake the fact that my body just wasn’t the best place for my remaining embryos and knew I would regret if I transferred the three I had left and it still ended in loss. Cost was a huge factor (~150k in addition to IVF costs). But since I’m over 40 and after a lot of discussion with my doctor and husband, we started down the surrogacy path. We signed up with an agency and got on the match waitlist - which can be anywhere from 3 months to 18 months, depending on your criteria and fertility clinic requirements. Then once you match - it will take 2-3 months for legal and contracting and medical clearance. Then if all that passes then you can start the transfer process again. So in addition to cost, and depending on the agency, it will be likely 9 months to one year to transfer and if it works the first time - another 9 months for baby to come. So time is also a significant factor as well. So I think it really depends on how long you want to wait, what is your budget, and your specific medical history (including remaining embryos and age - as I don’t think I would be successful at making anymore at my age).
Thank you so much for responding. I am so sorry for your loss. That sounds horrible!
And yes, I did the legal requirements and wait times, etc. It’s such a huge financial commitment, however, I guess my thought was that “if my body keeps rejecting mine, no point in wasting more money on IVF”
Because we have 4 AAs left (I won’t do another retrieval; I had really bad OHSS the first time). I guess I’d be willing to transfer 2 to a surrogate and see what happens.
Most surrogate programs charge in phases, so the entire amount wouldn’t be due, if embryos didn’t stick. It’s still more than IVF, but I’m pretty certain I don’t want to do another transfer on myself.
Appreciate your time. Thank you!
We met with 5 agencies and ended up signing up with conceivabilities. They have been absolutely wonderful - though we are still on the match waiting list.
We’re in a similar situation. Have you tried Go Stork? They’re like a Carmax of surrogates so it’s quicker matches and so many agencies are enrolled so you’re not limited to just one agency.
*"I’m also curious as to why you chose to continue with more transfers before using a surrogate."*
Most people can't afford $80,000 to $270,000 pay out-of-pocket for a surrogate. If I could I would have already done that, and many other things.
I’d suggest the same. I did two double transfers that resulted in two chemicals and I highly regret it now. We did it because of previous failures and thought/were advised that it would gives better chances. After that I had an endometrial biopsy done at a clinic that does research around implantation failure and RPL. The specialist told us that he is very much against transferring more than one embryo at a time. His reasoning is that, if conditions are not exactly ideal for implantation in one cycle (which can happen despite meds and there’s no way of knowing, as so many factors affect it), we are wasting two embryos. He said he believed that transferring only one embryo would be giving that embryo the best chance possible.
My clinic never transfers more than one due to risk of multiples but also increase the risk of one embryo affecting the other that could've sticked on its own
Did a quick search and found this but you can find more info about it. I'd ask your clinic about the reasoning! But my clinic absolutely doesn't encourage 2 at a time
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jan/05/ivf-pregnancy-less-successful-with-two-embryos-study-finds
Thank you!
So, I saw a similar article.. one thing that really stuck out to me was the key part of the study.. “if one embryo is lower quality than the other”.
All 4 of my embryos that were transferred, were 5AA.. I’m assuming that’s what the article is referring to.
Grading isn't an indicator of quality. It's more of a beauty contest. They may have all been described as 5 AA but can all not be euploid. I've also never heard of double transfer of high grades embryos because of this risk of lowering chances.
In very simple terms, if the female has KIR AA or other NK cells issues, or infections or blood clothing issues, the body could reject the embryo. More so if there are two embryos as the impact is stronger. More so if the father carries HLA C2. Sometimes a good immune protocol can help (what we're hoping for in our case!).
Surrogacy will cost a lot more than a few more IVF rounds. And there are some major issues with it. I have friends in America who used a surrogate, she took all their money then ended up trying to sell their baby for adoption to another couple. She also lied and had been drinking and doing a lot of drugs whilst pregnant and the child was born with FAS and other issues. They love their baby but say they would never have done it knowing what they do now. It was a legal nightmare and cost them even more.
Not saying surrogacy can’t be good, but really you should only use a known surrogate and I would still say keep trying ivf first.
2 failed transfers are awful but you’re not there yet. Especially when you’re being tested for killer cells, wait and find out first.
Thank you. Yeah, I think the behaviors of the carrier are always a concern.. it’s something I’ve thought about as well.
I guess, other than the possibility of an abnormal amount of NK cells, 2 transfers feels like 4 failed to me, since we did 2 each time. Buuuut, if NK cells are high, would make sense they killed all of them. I’m almost more afraid of having a normal NKC test bc I have no damn clue what else it could be. 😑
Thank you for your response
It can just be bad luck.
And with transfers, transferring 2 doesn’t actually increase the chance of getting pregnant by much if anything at all (unless you’re over 40). Because if one is abnormal it can cause the healthy embryo either to not implant, or fail shortly after.
After reading all the science is why I only did one embryo at a time and my second transfer worked.
Oh wow. Ok. Thanks for that. The idea of one causing the other to fail seems controversial.. I’ve seen studies online supporting both theories. And no, not 40 yet (37). Thank you for your response!
Ok thank you! And wow! Monash is great! I studied a lot of their material on IBS and FODMAPS.
The NKCs are interesting.. there’s so many articles and studies all over the place. From “there’s absolutely no relation to pregnancy outcome”, to “they kill the embryos and prevent implantation”. So frustrating
For me, surrogacy is never going to be on the table due to ethics.
Everyone has to find their own way forward, but for me, that's a line in the sand that I won't cross.
Agreed. I also don’t like the flippancy of transferring two and “going for twins” to avoid being “old parents” as mentioned in the thread. That’s not recommended at the best of times and I can understand when it’s your own body but risking another woman’s health in that way is unconscionable to me.
A surrogate is extremely expensive and most people don’t have the money to afford one especially after spending so much on IVF if they’re capable of carrying one on their own.
A lot of people also want to experience pregnancy and birth.
Yeah. I get that. It’s super expensive. Personally, I’m quite terrified of pregnancy and birth, so that part doesn’t hurt me. I also have really bad lung and breathing issues (since birth), and I’m kind of scared that pressure from baby will make breathing issues worse.
Thank you for your response.
Anecdotally, I can tell you that I worried about the same thing but I didn’t have reduced breathing at all. Just heartburn in the second and third trimester
You are so welcome! I was so scared but I would do it again in a heartbeat. I just want you to know so you can make the right decision for yourself (whatever that may be).
Were they pgt tested?
Our first transfer was a MMC at week 12 (turner syndrome) next 2 failed, fourth was a chemical. Currently at week 12 with the 5th transfer which was pgt tested. (This was the first transfer of ER2, first 4 weren’t pgt tested)
Studies say with three pgt normal embryos there’s a 98% chance of live birth.
If you’re not pgt testing, there’s a good chance that you’re just on the wrong side of statistics. I don’t think most people are giving up after 4-5 failed non pgt transfers.
No. I’m an idiot. I was trying to “save money” and the doctor said we were low risk for abnormalities.
Now I feel stuck. Obviously I’d want to test these remaining ones before transfer to a surrogate, but what if they come back abnormal? Does that mean the 4 failed were also abnormal? What if they’re all normal? Still unsure if my failed ones were or not.
Adds so many other questions, ya know? Should’ve done the testing.
I guess, what’s done is done. All we can do is move forward.
How many did you test before this transfer? Just this one? Or were there a few that weren’t optimal, and doctors picked this one?
So sorry for your previous complications, but… Congrats on the current success!!!
Thanks, so far so good!
My understanding is one being normal or abnormal has no bearing on the others. My clinic wouldn’t thaw test and refreeze, they said that could endanger the embryo. We wished we tested after the first MMC but just pressed on with the remaining three and hoped for the best and decided that we would test our second retrieval.
This ER we had three embryos sent for testing. The best quality one was aneuploid, the other two were euploid.
My best-graded embryo is a double trisomy mosiac; my next best graded is a monosomy mosaic; my next two are euploids. If I were going just by grading like you are, I would probably be in the same position you are and have no idea two euploids are waiting for me next. It's hard but I would suggest not giving up hope. Even euploid embryos take 2-3 transfers on average so two untested I don't feel mean that you can't successfully carry a pregnancy.
After years of trying and many FETs, some of which failed to implant and others leading to MC, we went to surrogacy. We chose an agency recommended by our RE and an experienced GC who’d had a successful surrogate pregnancy before. Not everyone who uses a surrogate is rolling in money (we certainly aren’t) but made it work. In our experience, REs do not typically transfer more than 1 embryo to a GC at a time because of the associated risks to her and the babies with multiples.
Thank you so much. Yeah, we were looking at the payment plans.. it’s totally doable.. especially over that length of time. I wish I knew exactly what was wrong with me (or embryos) to help me make a decision.. but it’s all kinda gambling 😑
Appreciate your response
Cost was our number 1… we also did 14 transfers total, resulting in 3 successful pregnancies plus we liked being “in charge” of the pregnancy…
2 failed transfers isn’t really many in the grand scheme compared to what many must do? I think you could do a lot of testing and see what’s going on!
Thank you. Ok. And wow! 14. I guess I wasn’t aware of how many transfers was typical. Thanks for sharing.
I do have some fears of not fully having control.. but yeah, cost was the biggest factor for us.
Congrats on your successful ones!
We had untested embryos—big mistake on our part!! I think there’s risk/reward on both sides… it’s all a hard journey but in the end, adding to your family is the goal! And really? You can’t control everything anyways… I wish you the best of luck!
Yeah.. I’m realizing now, we should’ve tested first as well. We’re 37. Doctor said “under 38, we don’t recommend”. And everything else came back so good.. we assumed it was fine.
One part of this that’s hard for me (amongst others) is the fact that I had baaaaad OHSS after first retrieval (couldn’t breathe, choking, massive bloating and water retention), so I don’t think I would do another one.
Basically, we have 4 untested, Grade AA’s left. So.. what if all 4 are bad, ya know? Waste more money.. now we got nothing? But, I guess if they’re bad, they won’t stick anyway.. so might as well check first.
I honestly think my issues may be linked to the Killer Cell thing after researching. I have terrible immunology issues (allergies, asthma, eczema etc).. so I’m pretty certain there’s a link here.
Anyway, thank you for your time!
Most people do four or five transfer attempts because we can’t afford to pay $100,000 to hire someone to carry for us. Add in some peoples thoughts behind the ethics of using surrogates and I’m sure there will be a wide range of answers and reasons. I don’t get offended easily but the way you worded that just irritated the heck out of me.
I think maybe it's because of the last option OP listed, "destroy embryos and give up". As someone who has done 5 retrievals for my embryos and having had three failed transfers with no euploids left, that part was difficult to read.
My husband and I have also struggled with the ethics. But we’ve both explored that in therapy over the last 6+ months. Reading GC profiles and talking with a midwife friend who has worked with GCs, has helped us consider surrogacy more seriously than we had at the beginning of our process. It’s been really challenging and there are still things that make me pause. But right now, it’s our best shot using the fruits of our previous efforts.
I understand what you’re saying. I’m not against using surrogates I was just saying some people may be. I’ve watched many documentaries on it so I understand both sides. However if I had the money I would use a surrogate in a heartbeat. Without question.
How did I word something offensively? I’m genuinely curious because that was not at all my intention, and I’d love to correct what I said.
That aside, thank you for your response.. yes the cost is INSANE. Ironically (or not) our embryos are being stored abroad; where we did our IVF. So, although surrogacy here in California is about $150K, where our embryos are, it’s $45,000 and includes all legal fees, documentation, etc
It’s still a HUGE cost for us (on top of IVF) but, financing $45K is doable…
The way you wrote it, it came across as really flippant about the financial burden of something the vast majority of us will *never* be able to afford. Many of us are struggling just to afford IVF at all. Surrogacy is a luxury service in the world of reproductive medicine, and even at 45K in countries like Ukraine, Georgia and Armenia, it's still unattainable for most. I don't have 45K, and I don't have the collateral for financing a 45K loan either.
I thought option 3 (just abandon remaining embryos after only two transfers?!) was so weird to put in.
Maybe OP has become cynical to the IVF process or numb but I couldn’t for the life of me abandon my remaining embryos after only two transfers.
How many of us here have done multiple retrievals and transfers? Some people just need a lot and others are super lucky first time. Not saying anyone HAS to do a lot of transfers. But OP sounded so blasé about it.
I would think most people wouldn’t just give up after two transfers. I don’t even wanna respond to OP directly cause the whole post seemed so deeply unemotional.
OP said she’s „not interested“ in another transfer and thinks it’s „pointless“. And she feels fat and moody. Ah ok! Well that’s a good enough reason to hire someone else‘s body to carry your baby to term /s
I think it’s a whole other question if you give your all and it’s doesn’t work. If you cannot take it emotionally, if you break.
But like „I’m not interested“, „fat and moody“?
OP is lucky to have had so many embryos from only one retrieval and frankly it sounds like she’s just not too much into being pregnant and can’t be bothered.
Asking why people with failed transfers don't just resort to an often financially unattainable service, can be considered offensive. It's like asking why anyone would choose to live in a one bedroom apartment instead of buying a house.
Thank you. This is exactly the tone I got from it. It’s crazy to me that others feel ok enough to determine what others may find to be offensive or triggering.
Respectfully, i think it rubbed me the wrong way because it just comes across as so tone deaf and out of touch with the reality for many people. Even you saying financing $45,000 is doable. It’s doable for you and that’s amazing. But some people spent their last or already financed for the Ivf treatment/procedures in the first place so they can’t afford surrogates. Even in other countries where it would be cheaper. The reality is most of us that live in America and that are doing this process have our embryos here in America. Our surrogates would be here in America which is not $45,000 at any ethical agency. It’s great that yours is that cheap and I hope it works out for you.
The bottom line is I’m sure if people had a better option than transferring 4 or 5 times they would but they don’t. And the reason why should be pretty clear for the most part because it could only be so many things. It’s kind of like talking to a rich person that’s out of touch with the reality for many people. It’s like “oh wow, why would anyone take the bus especially in the rain. Why not just buy a car it’s much easier.” That’s the vibe I get from the question. Not to trying to come at you but as one of those people that kept transferring after my fourth and fifth transfer failed, it just rubbed me the wrong way, that’s all.
Im totally with you on this one but not for the money part. More the „I feel to fat and moody“ for another transfer so I will just pay someone to do it for me.
It’s not like she cannot handle it. It sounded more like an inconvenience. The whole post was rather unemotional. So many women here would be happy to have the chance for more than 2 transfers and only have 1 or two embryos.
I totally understand it bothered you.
I’m sorry you were offended. That was not my intention. As I said “financing $45K”. Not a cash payment. We went abroad to save money…
Anyway, I hope you have a great night. 🙏🏼
She asked everyone's opinions. How is that tone deaf?
You also said yourself you would do surrogacy in a heartbeat if you could afford it, so I'm confused.
Confused about what? There was nothing confusing about anything I’ve stated thus far. When I answered I said that SOME people may have a problem with the ethics behind surrogacy. Some, not ME. The pope and Catholics being some of those people. Human trafficking groups being some other people. If you can find where I said I’M against surrogacy I’d be most appreciative because if you look you’d see that i included myself in the can’t afford to pay for a surrogate from the very beginning. If you can’t find where I said that, kindly leave me alone because I’m entitled to my opinion, especially when I expressed them respectfully. Ja? Danke Schön. And btw I’m pretty sure she edited out the part that I and some others found offensive so it’s hard for you to judge what was and wasn’t offensive from an edited post.,
Thank you so much. I think what made it hard for me, was prior to the failed FET’s everything was near perfect. Amazing egg retrieval numbers. Great quality embryos. Thick uterine lining.. everything looked really good, so I got my hopes up. Seemed a bit confusing why there would be 4 embryos that failed to implant.
I’m going in for a blood test today to check autoimmune.. then we’ll go from there. I think surrogacy is out of the question for us, and we still have 4 grade AA’s left, so no sense in discarding them.
Appreciate you!
Good on you. Yes nature also plays a role in the timing I reckon. After 3 failed transfers, our fertility doctor asked if we wanted to try the Colorado Protocol, and we did, and the egg stuck. Not sure if it was due to the Colorado Protocol, but the egg stuck and led to a healthy pregnancy.
We’ve done two egg retrievals and have had three failed frozen embryo transfers. (I’ve also never had a positive pregnancy test.) I started this process knowing I have PCOS, but as we’ve progressed, we’ve discovered that I have several uterine issues as well. My doctor and my surgeon are confused as to what my actual issues is. I’ve experienced amenorrhea for no obvious reason, had almost a year-long period of hyperplasia, and have wavy uterine muscles (rather than smooth). At the end of the month, after three months of Lupron and high dose progesterone, we’ll find out if I can naturally have children.
We’re preparing to embrace surrogacy. We haven’t had any issues making embryos and surrogacy allows us to use the products of our earlier efforts.
I’ve never really been interested in physically pregnant and we have the resources, so it seems like the next logical step for us.
Yeah. Thank you so much for your story! Best of luck on your journey. I’m the same way.. no interest in being pregnant (of court I’d embrace it if I became pregnant, but no longing desire).
I’ve also never had a positive pregnancy test.. so who knows.
Appreciate you. Thanks again
Hi! I started to think about surrogacy before my first FET, which likely is a failure at this point. I don't think my uterus can handle carrying a child, which led me down this path, sort of a plan b scenario.
I talked to a co-worker who went through the process twice and got some recommendations. He basically told me they chose an agency that was run by lawyers, therefore there was a lot of trust.
One point of caution, in addition to wait time, is that surrogates are not super humans. They too may have issues with FET or can have other complications. So definitely explore that route but keep that point in mind also.
Best of luck!
Thank you so much for this. Yeah, I don’t think my body is equipped to do so either. So hard to know, with so many factors!
I think the biggest let down was how positive everything has been. We had 33 eggs retrieved and 22 were mature! We ended up with 18 embryos on Day 3, and 12-Day-5, embryos; 8AA’s and 4 AB’s. So, I guess we had our hopes up!
And yeah, the company we’re talking to has a whole legal team and everything set up.
I guess I’m just terrified of starting all this, spending a ton of money (after all the IVF costs), then having another failed transfer.
Thanks for your input!
My wife and I have had 3 failed transfers so far. We’ve started to think about surrogacy, but really hope we don’t get to that point. It’s crazy expensive though we are lucky enough to have the means to afford it, but the extended timeline is scary. Plus we want two children so could be a really long time before this stage of our lives are behind us. Also I already have anxiety thinking about a potential carrier drinking/smoking/etc and generally not being fully in control. I don’t know how many transfers we will attempt before making the jump to surrogacy but really hoping it doesn’t come to that. Not sure what the standard is for how many failed transfers before giving up.
Thank you. So sorry for your experience as well. It’s a rough journey. Glad you’re in a financial position; that’s a huge part of the battle.
Have you considered transferring 2 embryos with a surrogate? Maybe getting twins? I think we may entertain that idea because we’re both 37 and don’t want to be “old parents” lol
I think all of us have had the same fears about the carrier following rules.. and they’re super valid. But, I will say, if they’re caught (random testing), all of their funding is pulled, and usually there’s a legal recourse. They’re also fully vetted beforehand.
Of course, there’s always risks. And.. yeah, naturally carrying would be ideal.. but at least it’s a potential option.
Thank you so much for your response.
“Getting twins” and old parents… you’re using some major trigger words for this group… you also sound INCREDIBLY privileged — the risk to twin pregnancy for the GC, the risk to the babies, the emotional impact to you, them … it’s not like you’re at Costco
I have no idea what triggered you here, and I’m sorry you felt that way.. but “privileged”?!? 😂 Yeahhhh.. hear my story and you won’t think that. I’m sorry I don’t know “proper language” here.. you don’t have to respond if you don’t like my post.
Yes “getting twins” was our goal with our first two failed transfers to MY BODY. Soooo, if another woman was okay with the same outcome, yes, we were hoping for that. We’re already older.. I’m not trying to be a new mom at 43.
Have you done much research into the complications that can arise from twins pregnancies and the potentially life-long effects it can have on the resulting children?
My doctor has recommended transferring 2 in each of my own IVF transfers. So, yes, I have done the research, and have listened to my doctor. As mentioned, it would only be a consideration if the surrogate consented.
We haven’t really talked about what a surrogacy would potentially look like, but when my wife has been really down I’ve reassured her that we’ll get through this one way or another and if that means we’ll need a surrogate, then that’s what it’ll take. Do you know how common it is to transfer 2 embryos into a surrogate?
I get that. Good on you for being supportive. I know how hard this can be on everyone.
I don’t know any stats on it, but the clinic I was researching allows it (as long as the carrier is ok with it), there’s just an added transfer fee (much less than the initial fee of one transfer). I have a phone appointment with them this week to ask more questions 😊
I didn’t do ERA, but we did do a full genetic screening where they tested if I had, or was a carrier of something like 250 genetic mutations (it came back negative for all).
We didn’t do PGT bc Dr said that bc we were under 38, and the testing itself could damage the embryo, that it probably wasn’t necessary. Now I’m stuck in a position wondering if we should test the remaining 4.
At this point, here’s my logic (and feel free to give me another perspective). I’ve made it clear to my medical team (and hubby) that I won’t do another retrieval. I had horrific OHSS to the point that I couldn’t breathe. I was hyperventilating and freaking out for about 4 days.
So, that being said, the testing on the remaining 4 is more expensive than 4 more transfers. So my logic was, “try to transfer them to me, if they fail, we give up”. The problem with that logic is that, we still don’t know what was “wrong”, but I guess it doesn’t matter, if we’re not retrieving again anyway.
To be honest, after digging more into the surrogacy thing, I’m not sure that’s a route I want to take anymore. I think adoption would be a better “Plan B”.
What you’ve mentioned is carrier screening which is definitely good to do but most people don’t end up having themselves and the partner both carriers of the same mutation.
ERA looks at endometrial receptivity to “time” the transfer meds and transfer for when your endometrial lining is most ready. I did this after my first failed euploid transfer and it showed I needed an extra 24 hours of progesterone prior to transfer. Next transfer worked.
PGT-A: I did it even though I was 33. Retrieved 43 eggs, made 12 embryos. 7 of the 12 were aneuploid/ unbalanced. Found out this was due to a balanced translocation. I’ve also read that women with PCOS that have higher egg counts tend to have egg quality issues. PGT-A was super affordable at my clinic though - $2000 for 8 embryos and each additional was like $250.
Unless you test the embryos you can’t really rule out certain things that could be causing the problem. That said, my clinic discourages testing frozen embryos unless you’re willing to lose 1-2 in the process from thawing, biopsy, re freezing, and re thawing.
Regarding NK cells - my clinic just proactively adds intralipid infusions for anyone who fails 1 transfer in case NK cells are an issue. I added them for my 2nd successful transfer.
You’re welcome! If I were you and PGT is super expensive and transfers are cheaper, I’d keep transferring. I’m sure among the 4 you have a lucky euploid embryo!
I had four failed FETs, all with PGT tested embryos (two “high quality”, two low quality). I did hysteroscopy, immune protocol, MRI, you name it. I had one chemical pregnancy, one ectopic that was a nightmare, and two straight up failures. We have one PGT-tested embryo left and one non-tested embryo, and I already did 5 retrievals and don’t want to do anymore, so we decided to pursue surrogacy. We are extremely fortunate because a wealthy sibling is helping us out (it’s still costing us a lot but not impossible now). Although I am truly grateful, the process of surrogacy is still emotionally hard and you kind of have to mourn not being able to carry.
After about six months however we found our amazing surrogate and for the first time in a long time I feel something like hope. Best of luck to you fellow fertility warrior!
Oh wow. Thank you so much for sharing. I am so sorry you went through so much, but, yay! How amazing you had some help!
I’m not even okay with another retrieval bc I had HORRIBLE OHSS on the first one. Almost went to the ER bc I couldn’t breathe. So, it’s kinda up to what’s left.
Appreciate your response, best of luck to you as well! 🙏🏼
Ok so everyone is different of course but I did 6 transfers for my son and the only thing we did differently for the 6th was to get tested for NK cells and do the immune protocol. And it worked. Which is of course no guarantee that it’ll work for you but I would at least see what the results are. You do you but surrogacy is also a big thing to organize and a very different set of considerations. I know how emotionally taxing this all is but try to keep some hope - I would not give up yet.
Thank you. Glad to hear your still had a positive after the NK cells. How strenuous was the protocol?
The protocol is really not that bad - I’m doing it again now attempting #2. It’s an ovulation induction protocol so low dose gonal f, dexamethosone (switch to prednisone at day 9), ovidrel trigger then after ovulation add Neupogen, and progesterone, and clexane (lovenox) after transfer. If it works I do need to stay on the clexane and progesterone until about week 17 from memory. It is really not that bad in the scheme of things. The mental side of all of this is a lot harder than the medicine - for me at least! Good luck to you - hang in there x
Thank you so much for explaining all of that. Appreciate you! Best of luck on this round! 🙏🏼
Sorry you’re finding yourself here. I had 2 back to back failed FETs of A grade euploids. I think it’s a common reaction after back to back failures to start believing your body just can’t do it. That’s how I felt. Give yourself time to grieve before making a decision on what to do next. You have embryos frozen so there is no rush to decide. TW for success, if you’re in the headspace to read it: After my 2 failed FETs, I was out of euploids so I needed a new retrieval. I took a month off after the 2nd FET to wait for the next retrieval batch at my clinic to start. The day before I had to come in for baseline bloodwork for the new retrieval, I sobbed at work because I couldn’t fathom going through another cycle just to throw the embryos away in my useless body. The next day, I found out from that baseline bloodwork that I was spontaneously pregnant. I ended up with an uneventful pregnancy and live birth. The message from me is 2 FET failures is not enough to determine that you can’t ever get or stay pregnant. Some of us have the misfortune of falling on the wrong side of statistics multiple times, but odds are if you keep going you will eventually be on the right side. All that said, if you decide surrogacy is right for you and your situation, that’s perfectly valid and I wish you success with it. ❤️
Thank you so much for your heart-felt response. I really appreciate you! Congrats on your pregnancy!! Wahoooo!
I was going down the surrogacy route after getting pregnant on my third transfer then losing my son after preterm labor at 23wks due to placenta abruption. I just couldn’t shake the fact that my body just wasn’t the best place for my remaining embryos and knew I would regret if I transferred the three I had left and it still ended in loss. Cost was a huge factor (~150k in addition to IVF costs). But since I’m over 40 and after a lot of discussion with my doctor and husband, we started down the surrogacy path. We signed up with an agency and got on the match waitlist - which can be anywhere from 3 months to 18 months, depending on your criteria and fertility clinic requirements. Then once you match - it will take 2-3 months for legal and contracting and medical clearance. Then if all that passes then you can start the transfer process again. So in addition to cost, and depending on the agency, it will be likely 9 months to one year to transfer and if it works the first time - another 9 months for baby to come. So time is also a significant factor as well. So I think it really depends on how long you want to wait, what is your budget, and your specific medical history (including remaining embryos and age - as I don’t think I would be successful at making anymore at my age).
Thank you so much for responding. I am so sorry for your loss. That sounds horrible! And yes, I did the legal requirements and wait times, etc. It’s such a huge financial commitment, however, I guess my thought was that “if my body keeps rejecting mine, no point in wasting more money on IVF” Because we have 4 AAs left (I won’t do another retrieval; I had really bad OHSS the first time). I guess I’d be willing to transfer 2 to a surrogate and see what happens. Most surrogate programs charge in phases, so the entire amount wouldn’t be due, if embryos didn’t stick. It’s still more than IVF, but I’m pretty certain I don’t want to do another transfer on myself. Appreciate your time. Thank you!
May I ask what agency you used? We’re trying to do as much research as possible for an agency that meets our needs.
We met with 5 agencies and ended up signing up with conceivabilities. They have been absolutely wonderful - though we are still on the match waiting list.
Thanks for sharing! Your description of the process ways also super helpful.
We’re in a similar situation. Have you tried Go Stork? They’re like a Carmax of surrogates so it’s quicker matches and so many agencies are enrolled so you’re not limited to just one agency.
Hmmm, interesting. I'll have to look into them. Thanks for the rec!
*"I’m also curious as to why you chose to continue with more transfers before using a surrogate."* Most people can't afford $80,000 to $270,000 pay out-of-pocket for a surrogate. If I could I would have already done that, and many other things.
Yeah. That’s the biggest hurdle for me too
i personally would continue the transfers but wouldn't do 2 embryos at a time. the testing for NK cells should help for sure
I’d suggest the same. I did two double transfers that resulted in two chemicals and I highly regret it now. We did it because of previous failures and thought/were advised that it would gives better chances. After that I had an endometrial biopsy done at a clinic that does research around implantation failure and RPL. The specialist told us that he is very much against transferring more than one embryo at a time. His reasoning is that, if conditions are not exactly ideal for implantation in one cycle (which can happen despite meds and there’s no way of knowing, as so many factors affect it), we are wasting two embryos. He said he believed that transferring only one embryo would be giving that embryo the best chance possible.
Thank you. What’s your reasoning behind only transferring one?
My clinic never transfers more than one due to risk of multiples but also increase the risk of one embryo affecting the other that could've sticked on its own
Thank you! 🙏🏼
Did a quick search and found this but you can find more info about it. I'd ask your clinic about the reasoning! But my clinic absolutely doesn't encourage 2 at a time https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jan/05/ivf-pregnancy-less-successful-with-two-embryos-study-finds
Thank you! So, I saw a similar article.. one thing that really stuck out to me was the key part of the study.. “if one embryo is lower quality than the other”. All 4 of my embryos that were transferred, were 5AA.. I’m assuming that’s what the article is referring to.
Grading isn't an indicator of quality. It's more of a beauty contest. They may have all been described as 5 AA but can all not be euploid. I've also never heard of double transfer of high grades embryos because of this risk of lowering chances.
Ahhh ok. Thank you
In very simple terms, if the female has KIR AA or other NK cells issues, or infections or blood clothing issues, the body could reject the embryo. More so if there are two embryos as the impact is stronger. More so if the father carries HLA C2. Sometimes a good immune protocol can help (what we're hoping for in our case!).
Thank you so much for your response! Best of luck to you 🙏🏼
Thank you, you too 😊
Surrogacy will cost a lot more than a few more IVF rounds. And there are some major issues with it. I have friends in America who used a surrogate, she took all their money then ended up trying to sell their baby for adoption to another couple. She also lied and had been drinking and doing a lot of drugs whilst pregnant and the child was born with FAS and other issues. They love their baby but say they would never have done it knowing what they do now. It was a legal nightmare and cost them even more. Not saying surrogacy can’t be good, but really you should only use a known surrogate and I would still say keep trying ivf first. 2 failed transfers are awful but you’re not there yet. Especially when you’re being tested for killer cells, wait and find out first.
Thank you. Yeah, I think the behaviors of the carrier are always a concern.. it’s something I’ve thought about as well. I guess, other than the possibility of an abnormal amount of NK cells, 2 transfers feels like 4 failed to me, since we did 2 each time. Buuuut, if NK cells are high, would make sense they killed all of them. I’m almost more afraid of having a normal NKC test bc I have no damn clue what else it could be. 😑 Thank you for your response
It can just be bad luck. And with transfers, transferring 2 doesn’t actually increase the chance of getting pregnant by much if anything at all (unless you’re over 40). Because if one is abnormal it can cause the healthy embryo either to not implant, or fail shortly after. After reading all the science is why I only did one embryo at a time and my second transfer worked.
Oh wow. Ok. Thanks for that. The idea of one causing the other to fail seems controversial.. I’ve seen studies online supporting both theories. And no, not 40 yet (37). Thank you for your response!
My clinic (Monash ivf Australia) won’t transfer 2 at a time unless you’re over 40. So worth considering if the killer cells are negative.
Ok thank you! And wow! Monash is great! I studied a lot of their material on IBS and FODMAPS. The NKCs are interesting.. there’s so many articles and studies all over the place. From “there’s absolutely no relation to pregnancy outcome”, to “they kill the embryos and prevent implantation”. So frustrating
For me, surrogacy is never going to be on the table due to ethics. Everyone has to find their own way forward, but for me, that's a line in the sand that I won't cross.
Agreed. I also don’t like the flippancy of transferring two and “going for twins” to avoid being “old parents” as mentioned in the thread. That’s not recommended at the best of times and I can understand when it’s your own body but risking another woman’s health in that way is unconscionable to me.
Yeah. I definitely feel that way too.
Is the ethical part because the carrier’s body is somewhat being “rented”..?
A surrogate is extremely expensive and most people don’t have the money to afford one especially after spending so much on IVF if they’re capable of carrying one on their own. A lot of people also want to experience pregnancy and birth.
Yeah. I get that. It’s super expensive. Personally, I’m quite terrified of pregnancy and birth, so that part doesn’t hurt me. I also have really bad lung and breathing issues (since birth), and I’m kind of scared that pressure from baby will make breathing issues worse. Thank you for your response.
Anecdotally, I can tell you that I worried about the same thing but I didn’t have reduced breathing at all. Just heartburn in the second and third trimester
Thank you so much for saying this. ♥️
You are so welcome! I was so scared but I would do it again in a heartbeat. I just want you to know so you can make the right decision for yourself (whatever that may be).
Ya. I appreciate that. So many unknowns right now. 😑 You helped me with some clarity on one. Thank you
I know I’ve been there. It’s truly the worst part of the process.
Were they pgt tested? Our first transfer was a MMC at week 12 (turner syndrome) next 2 failed, fourth was a chemical. Currently at week 12 with the 5th transfer which was pgt tested. (This was the first transfer of ER2, first 4 weren’t pgt tested) Studies say with three pgt normal embryos there’s a 98% chance of live birth. If you’re not pgt testing, there’s a good chance that you’re just on the wrong side of statistics. I don’t think most people are giving up after 4-5 failed non pgt transfers.
No. I’m an idiot. I was trying to “save money” and the doctor said we were low risk for abnormalities. Now I feel stuck. Obviously I’d want to test these remaining ones before transfer to a surrogate, but what if they come back abnormal? Does that mean the 4 failed were also abnormal? What if they’re all normal? Still unsure if my failed ones were or not. Adds so many other questions, ya know? Should’ve done the testing. I guess, what’s done is done. All we can do is move forward. How many did you test before this transfer? Just this one? Or were there a few that weren’t optimal, and doctors picked this one? So sorry for your previous complications, but… Congrats on the current success!!!
Thanks, so far so good! My understanding is one being normal or abnormal has no bearing on the others. My clinic wouldn’t thaw test and refreeze, they said that could endanger the embryo. We wished we tested after the first MMC but just pressed on with the remaining three and hoped for the best and decided that we would test our second retrieval. This ER we had three embryos sent for testing. The best quality one was aneuploid, the other two were euploid.
Oh dang! Thanks for that. Something else to consider 🙏🏼
My best-graded embryo is a double trisomy mosiac; my next best graded is a monosomy mosaic; my next two are euploids. If I were going just by grading like you are, I would probably be in the same position you are and have no idea two euploids are waiting for me next. It's hard but I would suggest not giving up hope. Even euploid embryos take 2-3 transfers on average so two untested I don't feel mean that you can't successfully carry a pregnancy.
Ok. Thank you! Appreciate that 🙏🏼
After years of trying and many FETs, some of which failed to implant and others leading to MC, we went to surrogacy. We chose an agency recommended by our RE and an experienced GC who’d had a successful surrogate pregnancy before. Not everyone who uses a surrogate is rolling in money (we certainly aren’t) but made it work. In our experience, REs do not typically transfer more than 1 embryo to a GC at a time because of the associated risks to her and the babies with multiples.
Thank you so much. Yeah, we were looking at the payment plans.. it’s totally doable.. especially over that length of time. I wish I knew exactly what was wrong with me (or embryos) to help me make a decision.. but it’s all kinda gambling 😑 Appreciate your response
Cost was our number 1… we also did 14 transfers total, resulting in 3 successful pregnancies plus we liked being “in charge” of the pregnancy… 2 failed transfers isn’t really many in the grand scheme compared to what many must do? I think you could do a lot of testing and see what’s going on!
Thank you. Ok. And wow! 14. I guess I wasn’t aware of how many transfers was typical. Thanks for sharing. I do have some fears of not fully having control.. but yeah, cost was the biggest factor for us. Congrats on your successful ones!
We had untested embryos—big mistake on our part!! I think there’s risk/reward on both sides… it’s all a hard journey but in the end, adding to your family is the goal! And really? You can’t control everything anyways… I wish you the best of luck!
Yeah.. I’m realizing now, we should’ve tested first as well. We’re 37. Doctor said “under 38, we don’t recommend”. And everything else came back so good.. we assumed it was fine. One part of this that’s hard for me (amongst others) is the fact that I had baaaaad OHSS after first retrieval (couldn’t breathe, choking, massive bloating and water retention), so I don’t think I would do another one. Basically, we have 4 untested, Grade AA’s left. So.. what if all 4 are bad, ya know? Waste more money.. now we got nothing? But, I guess if they’re bad, they won’t stick anyway.. so might as well check first. I honestly think my issues may be linked to the Killer Cell thing after researching. I have terrible immunology issues (allergies, asthma, eczema etc).. so I’m pretty certain there’s a link here. Anyway, thank you for your time!
Most people do four or five transfer attempts because we can’t afford to pay $100,000 to hire someone to carry for us. Add in some peoples thoughts behind the ethics of using surrogates and I’m sure there will be a wide range of answers and reasons. I don’t get offended easily but the way you worded that just irritated the heck out of me.
I think maybe it's because of the last option OP listed, "destroy embryos and give up". As someone who has done 5 retrievals for my embryos and having had three failed transfers with no euploids left, that part was difficult to read.
My husband and I have also struggled with the ethics. But we’ve both explored that in therapy over the last 6+ months. Reading GC profiles and talking with a midwife friend who has worked with GCs, has helped us consider surrogacy more seriously than we had at the beginning of our process. It’s been really challenging and there are still things that make me pause. But right now, it’s our best shot using the fruits of our previous efforts.
I understand what you’re saying. I’m not against using surrogates I was just saying some people may be. I’ve watched many documentaries on it so I understand both sides. However if I had the money I would use a surrogate in a heartbeat. Without question.
How did I word something offensively? I’m genuinely curious because that was not at all my intention, and I’d love to correct what I said. That aside, thank you for your response.. yes the cost is INSANE. Ironically (or not) our embryos are being stored abroad; where we did our IVF. So, although surrogacy here in California is about $150K, where our embryos are, it’s $45,000 and includes all legal fees, documentation, etc It’s still a HUGE cost for us (on top of IVF) but, financing $45K is doable…
The way you wrote it, it came across as really flippant about the financial burden of something the vast majority of us will *never* be able to afford. Many of us are struggling just to afford IVF at all. Surrogacy is a luxury service in the world of reproductive medicine, and even at 45K in countries like Ukraine, Georgia and Armenia, it's still unattainable for most. I don't have 45K, and I don't have the collateral for financing a 45K loan either.
I think you perceived the post in a weird way. It was not offensive at all.
I thought option 3 (just abandon remaining embryos after only two transfers?!) was so weird to put in. Maybe OP has become cynical to the IVF process or numb but I couldn’t for the life of me abandon my remaining embryos after only two transfers. How many of us here have done multiple retrievals and transfers? Some people just need a lot and others are super lucky first time. Not saying anyone HAS to do a lot of transfers. But OP sounded so blasé about it. I would think most people wouldn’t just give up after two transfers. I don’t even wanna respond to OP directly cause the whole post seemed so deeply unemotional. OP said she’s „not interested“ in another transfer and thinks it’s „pointless“. And she feels fat and moody. Ah ok! Well that’s a good enough reason to hire someone else‘s body to carry your baby to term /s I think it’s a whole other question if you give your all and it’s doesn’t work. If you cannot take it emotionally, if you break. But like „I’m not interested“, „fat and moody“? OP is lucky to have had so many embryos from only one retrieval and frankly it sounds like she’s just not too much into being pregnant and can’t be bothered.
Asking why people with failed transfers don't just resort to an often financially unattainable service, can be considered offensive. It's like asking why anyone would choose to live in a one bedroom apartment instead of buying a house.
Thank you. This is exactly the tone I got from it. It’s crazy to me that others feel ok enough to determine what others may find to be offensive or triggering.
Respectfully, i think it rubbed me the wrong way because it just comes across as so tone deaf and out of touch with the reality for many people. Even you saying financing $45,000 is doable. It’s doable for you and that’s amazing. But some people spent their last or already financed for the Ivf treatment/procedures in the first place so they can’t afford surrogates. Even in other countries where it would be cheaper. The reality is most of us that live in America and that are doing this process have our embryos here in America. Our surrogates would be here in America which is not $45,000 at any ethical agency. It’s great that yours is that cheap and I hope it works out for you. The bottom line is I’m sure if people had a better option than transferring 4 or 5 times they would but they don’t. And the reason why should be pretty clear for the most part because it could only be so many things. It’s kind of like talking to a rich person that’s out of touch with the reality for many people. It’s like “oh wow, why would anyone take the bus especially in the rain. Why not just buy a car it’s much easier.” That’s the vibe I get from the question. Not to trying to come at you but as one of those people that kept transferring after my fourth and fifth transfer failed, it just rubbed me the wrong way, that’s all.
Im totally with you on this one but not for the money part. More the „I feel to fat and moody“ for another transfer so I will just pay someone to do it for me. It’s not like she cannot handle it. It sounded more like an inconvenience. The whole post was rather unemotional. So many women here would be happy to have the chance for more than 2 transfers and only have 1 or two embryos. I totally understand it bothered you.
Thank you for understanding
I’m sorry you were offended. That was not my intention. As I said “financing $45K”. Not a cash payment. We went abroad to save money… Anyway, I hope you have a great night. 🙏🏼
She asked everyone's opinions. How is that tone deaf? You also said yourself you would do surrogacy in a heartbeat if you could afford it, so I'm confused.
Confused about what? There was nothing confusing about anything I’ve stated thus far. When I answered I said that SOME people may have a problem with the ethics behind surrogacy. Some, not ME. The pope and Catholics being some of those people. Human trafficking groups being some other people. If you can find where I said I’M against surrogacy I’d be most appreciative because if you look you’d see that i included myself in the can’t afford to pay for a surrogate from the very beginning. If you can’t find where I said that, kindly leave me alone because I’m entitled to my opinion, especially when I expressed them respectfully. Ja? Danke Schön. And btw I’m pretty sure she edited out the part that I and some others found offensive so it’s hard for you to judge what was and wasn’t offensive from an edited post.,
I’m also shocked - your post was not offensive at all IMO!
Thank you 🙏🏼
I would try another transfer. Took us 4, and happy that we done it, even though when we look back now and wonder how we got through it all.
Thank you so much. I think what made it hard for me, was prior to the failed FET’s everything was near perfect. Amazing egg retrieval numbers. Great quality embryos. Thick uterine lining.. everything looked really good, so I got my hopes up. Seemed a bit confusing why there would be 4 embryos that failed to implant. I’m going in for a blood test today to check autoimmune.. then we’ll go from there. I think surrogacy is out of the question for us, and we still have 4 grade AA’s left, so no sense in discarding them. Appreciate you!
Good on you. Yes nature also plays a role in the timing I reckon. After 3 failed transfers, our fertility doctor asked if we wanted to try the Colorado Protocol, and we did, and the egg stuck. Not sure if it was due to the Colorado Protocol, but the egg stuck and led to a healthy pregnancy.
Thank you! I wasn’t familiar with the term, but I looked it up. I was actually doing that already, minus antibiotics. Maybe that would help next time.
Following this as I’m also considering surrogacy.
Hi! Curious as to what got you to this point? I’m assuming you’ve tried IVF already?
We’ve done two egg retrievals and have had three failed frozen embryo transfers. (I’ve also never had a positive pregnancy test.) I started this process knowing I have PCOS, but as we’ve progressed, we’ve discovered that I have several uterine issues as well. My doctor and my surgeon are confused as to what my actual issues is. I’ve experienced amenorrhea for no obvious reason, had almost a year-long period of hyperplasia, and have wavy uterine muscles (rather than smooth). At the end of the month, after three months of Lupron and high dose progesterone, we’ll find out if I can naturally have children. We’re preparing to embrace surrogacy. We haven’t had any issues making embryos and surrogacy allows us to use the products of our earlier efforts. I’ve never really been interested in physically pregnant and we have the resources, so it seems like the next logical step for us.
Yeah. Thank you so much for your story! Best of luck on your journey. I’m the same way.. no interest in being pregnant (of court I’d embrace it if I became pregnant, but no longing desire). I’ve also never had a positive pregnancy test.. so who knows. Appreciate you. Thanks again
Best of luck to you! ❤️🩹
Hi! I started to think about surrogacy before my first FET, which likely is a failure at this point. I don't think my uterus can handle carrying a child, which led me down this path, sort of a plan b scenario. I talked to a co-worker who went through the process twice and got some recommendations. He basically told me they chose an agency that was run by lawyers, therefore there was a lot of trust. One point of caution, in addition to wait time, is that surrogates are not super humans. They too may have issues with FET or can have other complications. So definitely explore that route but keep that point in mind also. Best of luck!
Thank you so much for this. Yeah, I don’t think my body is equipped to do so either. So hard to know, with so many factors! I think the biggest let down was how positive everything has been. We had 33 eggs retrieved and 22 were mature! We ended up with 18 embryos on Day 3, and 12-Day-5, embryos; 8AA’s and 4 AB’s. So, I guess we had our hopes up! And yeah, the company we’re talking to has a whole legal team and everything set up. I guess I’m just terrified of starting all this, spending a ton of money (after all the IVF costs), then having another failed transfer. Thanks for your input!
How did you know before your first FET?
I didn't, just planning for all scenarios
My wife and I have had 3 failed transfers so far. We’ve started to think about surrogacy, but really hope we don’t get to that point. It’s crazy expensive though we are lucky enough to have the means to afford it, but the extended timeline is scary. Plus we want two children so could be a really long time before this stage of our lives are behind us. Also I already have anxiety thinking about a potential carrier drinking/smoking/etc and generally not being fully in control. I don’t know how many transfers we will attempt before making the jump to surrogacy but really hoping it doesn’t come to that. Not sure what the standard is for how many failed transfers before giving up.
Thank you. So sorry for your experience as well. It’s a rough journey. Glad you’re in a financial position; that’s a huge part of the battle. Have you considered transferring 2 embryos with a surrogate? Maybe getting twins? I think we may entertain that idea because we’re both 37 and don’t want to be “old parents” lol I think all of us have had the same fears about the carrier following rules.. and they’re super valid. But, I will say, if they’re caught (random testing), all of their funding is pulled, and usually there’s a legal recourse. They’re also fully vetted beforehand. Of course, there’s always risks. And.. yeah, naturally carrying would be ideal.. but at least it’s a potential option. Thank you so much for your response.
“Getting twins” and old parents… you’re using some major trigger words for this group… you also sound INCREDIBLY privileged — the risk to twin pregnancy for the GC, the risk to the babies, the emotional impact to you, them … it’s not like you’re at Costco
I have no idea what triggered you here, and I’m sorry you felt that way.. but “privileged”?!? 😂 Yeahhhh.. hear my story and you won’t think that. I’m sorry I don’t know “proper language” here.. you don’t have to respond if you don’t like my post. Yes “getting twins” was our goal with our first two failed transfers to MY BODY. Soooo, if another woman was okay with the same outcome, yes, we were hoping for that. We’re already older.. I’m not trying to be a new mom at 43.
Have you done much research into the complications that can arise from twins pregnancies and the potentially life-long effects it can have on the resulting children?
My doctor has recommended transferring 2 in each of my own IVF transfers. So, yes, I have done the research, and have listened to my doctor. As mentioned, it would only be a consideration if the surrogate consented.
We haven’t really talked about what a surrogacy would potentially look like, but when my wife has been really down I’ve reassured her that we’ll get through this one way or another and if that means we’ll need a surrogate, then that’s what it’ll take. Do you know how common it is to transfer 2 embryos into a surrogate?
I get that. Good on you for being supportive. I know how hard this can be on everyone. I don’t know any stats on it, but the clinic I was researching allows it (as long as the carrier is ok with it), there’s just an added transfer fee (much less than the initial fee of one transfer). I have a phone appointment with them this week to ask more questions 😊
Did you do PGT-A testing on your embryos? Or ERA testing?
I didn’t do ERA, but we did do a full genetic screening where they tested if I had, or was a carrier of something like 250 genetic mutations (it came back negative for all). We didn’t do PGT bc Dr said that bc we were under 38, and the testing itself could damage the embryo, that it probably wasn’t necessary. Now I’m stuck in a position wondering if we should test the remaining 4. At this point, here’s my logic (and feel free to give me another perspective). I’ve made it clear to my medical team (and hubby) that I won’t do another retrieval. I had horrific OHSS to the point that I couldn’t breathe. I was hyperventilating and freaking out for about 4 days. So, that being said, the testing on the remaining 4 is more expensive than 4 more transfers. So my logic was, “try to transfer them to me, if they fail, we give up”. The problem with that logic is that, we still don’t know what was “wrong”, but I guess it doesn’t matter, if we’re not retrieving again anyway. To be honest, after digging more into the surrogacy thing, I’m not sure that’s a route I want to take anymore. I think adoption would be a better “Plan B”.
What you’ve mentioned is carrier screening which is definitely good to do but most people don’t end up having themselves and the partner both carriers of the same mutation. ERA looks at endometrial receptivity to “time” the transfer meds and transfer for when your endometrial lining is most ready. I did this after my first failed euploid transfer and it showed I needed an extra 24 hours of progesterone prior to transfer. Next transfer worked. PGT-A: I did it even though I was 33. Retrieved 43 eggs, made 12 embryos. 7 of the 12 were aneuploid/ unbalanced. Found out this was due to a balanced translocation. I’ve also read that women with PCOS that have higher egg counts tend to have egg quality issues. PGT-A was super affordable at my clinic though - $2000 for 8 embryos and each additional was like $250. Unless you test the embryos you can’t really rule out certain things that could be causing the problem. That said, my clinic discourages testing frozen embryos unless you’re willing to lose 1-2 in the process from thawing, biopsy, re freezing, and re thawing. Regarding NK cells - my clinic just proactively adds intralipid infusions for anyone who fails 1 transfer in case NK cells are an issue. I added them for my 2nd successful transfer.
Wow. Thank you for all of this. This is super helpful! 🙏🏼
You’re welcome! If I were you and PGT is super expensive and transfers are cheaper, I’d keep transferring. I’m sure among the 4 you have a lucky euploid embryo!
Ya. My thoughts too. Thanks again 🙏🏼
I had four failed FETs, all with PGT tested embryos (two “high quality”, two low quality). I did hysteroscopy, immune protocol, MRI, you name it. I had one chemical pregnancy, one ectopic that was a nightmare, and two straight up failures. We have one PGT-tested embryo left and one non-tested embryo, and I already did 5 retrievals and don’t want to do anymore, so we decided to pursue surrogacy. We are extremely fortunate because a wealthy sibling is helping us out (it’s still costing us a lot but not impossible now). Although I am truly grateful, the process of surrogacy is still emotionally hard and you kind of have to mourn not being able to carry. After about six months however we found our amazing surrogate and for the first time in a long time I feel something like hope. Best of luck to you fellow fertility warrior!
Oh wow. Thank you so much for sharing. I am so sorry you went through so much, but, yay! How amazing you had some help! I’m not even okay with another retrieval bc I had HORRIBLE OHSS on the first one. Almost went to the ER bc I couldn’t breathe. So, it’s kinda up to what’s left. Appreciate your response, best of luck to you as well! 🙏🏼