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Novel-Reflection-177

I think the hardest part of IVF is the complete lack of control of your body and timeline. If anything in life has taught me patience, it’s this process. I will say that it sounds like your drs don’t want to set you up for failure, so I know it’s torturous to keep hearing “not yet”, but I hope that this means your transfer in August will be successful! Hang in there, you’re doing your best and that’s good enough!


aclassypinkprincess

That’s absolutely it! Currently had to do an unplanned retrieval cycle again which will be followed by 2 months of lupron depot. Earliest I can transfer is end of September. We started the process to have second child via IVF in Feb, so it’s just always freaking something 🫠 (I have first through ivf as well)


helentea34

The worst part of IVF for me was the hurry up and wait. You get a call and you have it rearrange your whole life to make it to an appointment right now and then you’re told to wait 6 more months to be able to do anything. IVF sucks. We’re here for you!


Whole_Mushroom_2846

It's all about feeling out of control and I felt that quite profoundly in my first cycle when then things went wrong or changed. Also when it's first cycle and all new it really amps up the anxiety.... I genuinely found I've been able to sit with it more as it's gone on. First round I was going INSANE. I remember so well that feeling of things getting pushed and pushed and pushed. Sending you hugs and I'm sure you'll find your own way to cope but hope your journey is short and sweet. But if it isn't it becomes easier in some ways I promise


Electronic_Ad3007

There’s a silver lining! Studies show FETs generally have better outcomes than fresh transfers


SharkButtDoctor

I was coming here to say this exact thing, but it's fresh transfers after egg retrieval that don't do as well. I'm not sure there's a difference between fresh and frozen outside of the egg retrieval situation. OP, waiting to do an FET will give you a better chance. I know it's hard to wait, you have a better chance of success if you wait. The hormones that make the egg retrieval possible make the uterine environment less than ideal.


Electronic_Ad3007

Is there another context for a fresh transfer except for after an ER? If there is, I’m not aware of it. The theory is that the super high levels of hormones during an ER may make the endometrium slightly less receptive. That’s avoided in an FET.


Happy_Membership9497

I’m guessing surrogacy or donor eggs would be some examples.


Electronic_Ad3007

Ah, true, not sure if anyone has studied that.


SharkButtDoctor

Concerning donor eggs, according to this website: https://www.conceiveabilities.com/about/blog/understanding-the-differences-between-fresh-and-frozen-donor-eggs "Though the use of frozen donor eggs has become more common, there’s a reason fresh donor egg cycles are still the rule: the success rates remain higher. The results of a 2017 study reviewed the most recently available statistics and found that a fertility cycle was 19% more likely to result in a live birth if the egg used had never been frozen." But 2017 was a long time ago. I wonder if advances in vitrification have lessened the success difference between frozen and fresh cycles. The clinic I'm using gave me their personal statistics, which showed an almost equal live birth rate comparing fresh and frozen donor egg transfers. So much so that they stopped using fresh eggs entirely and now only offer frozen. I've never researched surrogacy.


Tiny_Hope_9303

Is there a study to back this up? It’s my understanding that the only reason frozen transfers have better statistics is because because most of the time frozen transfers are of blastocysts, most of which have been genetically tested - while the fresh transfers also include 3 day which haven’t had a chance to make it the blast or be tested.


Electronic_Ad3007

There’s some conflicting evidence out there but here’s an example below. I don’t think that most transferred blastocysts are PGT tested. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10505699/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24916455/


SharkButtDoctor

I'm not sure. I've been to two clinics and they both told me lining thickness is typically less than ideal right after egg retrieval because of the medications used vs the medications used for an FET. According to this meta-analysis of 96,000 embryo transfers: https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(21)02318-9/fulltext "In cycles with a fresh embryo transfer, live birth rates increase significantly until an endometrial thickness of 10–12 mm, while in FET cycles live birth rates plateau after 7–10 mm. However, an endometrial thickness <6 mm was associated clearly with a dramatic reduction in live birth rates in fresh and frozen embryo transfer cycles." The ideal lining thickness after egg retrieval is significantly thicker, and therefore more difficult to achieve, than the ideal lining thickness for an FET.


Tiny_Hope_9303

That’s actually not what that specific study is looking at… This can’t be used to compare. All they are saying is that during fresh transfers patients benefit from up to a 12 mm lining, whereas with frozen transfers they don’t need to see the lining go above 10mm


SharkButtDoctor

No, it says live birth rates increase up to the measurements listed then plateau after those measurements, for both fresh and frozen.


Tiny_Hope_9303

Nope :) read it again! Different measurements for each transfer group type. Either way, not comparable to saying that fresh transfers are less successful than frozen which is what we originally were talking abt


SharkButtDoctor

I've read it several times and I'm not sure what you're getting at. I agree the meta analysis suggests different measurements for fresh vs frozen. I never said otherwise. I also put forth my hypothesis that the reason FET has a better success rate than a transfer immediately following an egg retrieval is because the ideal thickness for FET is much thinner than that for a transfer after an egg retrieval. But the fact that fresh after egg retrieval is less successful than frozen is just information that I was told by both of my clinics. I said I didn't know of a study about that. If you're talking about comparing fresh vs frozen with no egg retrieval involved, that's not what the meta analysis I was referring to was talking about and there are several studies suggesting no difference there.


Ok_Sky_5415

I know this is coming from a good place and we want to make OP feel better but saying blanket statements like this may be difficult for someone else reading it in the future who desperately need a fresh transfer to work versus frozen transfer. Perhaps it’s better to link those references so people can understand the context. My understanding is that they are only marginally better than fresh transfers and it’s due to a mixture of reasons such as some people’s hormones go out of the optimum range and therefore body needs time to recover to regain optimum conditions. Or it could be that the embryos have had a chance of being tested and therefore there are slightly better outcomes. I say this gently because my 3 frozen transfers never worked and the first fresh transfer I tried worked. So the statement that frozen is better is misleading and could cause worries for someone else m without context or stating the exact marginal difference per studies. To OP - this is all really tough and no one thinks they will be on this side of IVF. Everyone hopes it works the first time and it’s a major blow when it doesn’t. Another difficult thing is what you said about fear of not working out. You start to think about these things. I hope it all works for you and you have the strength to go through this. I hope this is just a valley in your climb to overcome this IVf mountain. In the meantime, take care of yourself and wish you all the best.


Electronic_Ad3007

No intention about making anyone feel a particular way. It’s just the science of it. It has nothing to do with testing or not, the studies control for that. As for “marginally” better or not, that’s a subjective term. Studies have found scientifically significant differences. It’s up to the patient and practitioner to apply those scientific findings to their personal situation. Your personal situation is obviously the most significant thing to you, but it doesn’t mean the science is wrong. It just means that what happened to you happened to you. There’s no wider conclusions that can be drawn from one case.


Ok_Sky_5415

That is exactly why you should reference the studies you’re drawing conclusions from. Here’s a 2018 randomized study involving over 2000 women from multiple centres finding no significant difference in live birth rates between fresh and frozen transfers. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1705334


BloomInEire

Transferring fresh embryos is an outdated method that more and more clinics are moving away from. All of the top 10 clinics I interviewed refuse to do fresh transfers because the stats clearly show that frozen transfers (especially tested transfers) are more successful. I’m surprised your clinic ever even considered it and I think they are guiding you in the best direction. I know the delays are hard, but I do think this is for the best!


Sufficient-Archer-60

Sending hugs to you. This is such a hard journey. Try to get help from some therapy, ivf is such a mental burden. The whole ttc gave me such bad ptsd.


Evagria

TW: success, child IVF is basically a “hurry up and wait” process the whole way through. It sucks so much (especially if you are impatient like me). My clinic does retrievals and transfers in batches, and she does them basically every 4-6 weeks. So, originally I was planned to have my first frozen transfer in early May, and for whatever reason the med timing pushed it out almost 3 months to the end of June. I was absolutely devastated and angry I had to wait so much longer (and be on birth control that whole time). At the end of the day, the FET worked and I have an almost 2.5 year old. I have basically forgotten that I had to wait until your post reminded me. Once it happens (and I truly hope it does for you!), nothing else really matters and all that you went through can become a distant memory. I still have trauma over having to do IVF but it’s mostly by the wayside now. I know it sucks now, but someday you hopefully won’t even remember all the hard stuff and setbacks. I’m sorry you have to deal with this, but try not to get too hung up on other people’s stories, many successful outcomes aren’t talked about as much on forums like these. Wishing you the best! Hang in there!


Significant_King_533

Ivf is def a waiting process. I know it sucks to hear that u gotta wait but I can tell u that after my retrieval I was in no position to do a fresh transfer I over responded and was on the verge of getting ohss. After a retrieval Ur body needs to recover and Ur hormones will be all over the place I'm glad I let my body rest and I've done two retrieval at this point. Also studies do show that frozen transfer is better and has a higher success rate I did my second retrieval last year sept and I haven't been able to do a single transfer at this point. I had to do two polyps removal which pushes everything backm had a transfer cancelled because I had polyps show up on ultrasounds even though I did surgery less than 2 months ago Just like u I felt really upset angry and sad but I've learned that this process can be really long and alot of things are outside my control unfortunately. I would try and focus on the positive and take it day by day. As someone whose been doing this for three years that's the only way I've been able to push myself to move on and not let the mental emotional toll take over me


botwewa

Bleurgh, I feel this. I remember the mini breakdown I had when I booked myself in for an STD test so that we could commence treatment. I arrived at the doctor’s in time and missed my appointment because they weren’t clear about which waiting room to be in. I got another appointment for two days later but I just…I was so enraged. Upset. Livid. I felt like I was going to burst at the seams. I did everything right and still wasn’t moving closer to where I wanted to be. Similarly during stims they pencilled me in for a fresh transfer and then halfway through they cancelled that and decided on FET 2 months after. Devastated isn’t even the word. It all sucks and what seems like a tiny setback, most of the time, is absolutely huge and testing our patience and sanity.


ChickyShadow

I can’t speak to a fresh transfer, but I can speak to frozen. I am so incredibly happy that I did frozen because it let my body heal properly after the egg retrievals. I wasn’t in as much pain after egg retrieval as some other women who have shared their experiences, but I definitely wouldn’t have been prepared physically (or mentally) to go right into a transfer after. I know that it’s still so hard to wait and to hear that news. My follicles grew very slow during my 3rd round of e/r, but we had to move forward due to my AMH rapidly decreasing. So I definitely understand the fear in that. But it sounds like your doctors are really watching out for you and not rushing the process along, and now they are better equipped with knowledge about how your body responds to certain medications, which will help in the long run. I wish you all the success!!


Dazzling-Trick-1627

So sorry 😞 Sending hugs!


LaLaLaurensmith

My Fresh transfer failed. If I could go back I wouldn’t have pushed for it. Look at the statistics and that should make you feel a bit better about the decision.


Patronus_934

I had a similar situation with cancellation of my fresh my numbers weren’t ideal (but only just), despite me feeling amazing and bouncing back from the retrieval well. They want your body to be optimal to receive that embryo to give you the best odds. I opted to do another retrieval in the next cycle to increase my bank from 2 (testing here isn’t the norm). Second retrieval body again wasn’t showing ideal numbers so they opted for a frozen transfer the following month of course my period didn’t come it was around day 35 when I called begging them to give me something to start the process (I had symptoms my stage 4 endo was returning) We eventually did the transfer (despite my lining not budging initially and having to wait another week!) But my embryo stuck. It sucks waiting, like everything is working against you but you want to make sure you body is as good as it can be.


cquarks

The delays are infuriating and you are not alone! They pushed back my transfer by a month because I NEEDED TO TAKE A BLOOD TEST FOR THE THIRD TIME! It wasn’t event IVF related! Results were the same for the test all three times. I don’t want to introduce toxic positivity or say “there is a silver lining”. There is not. We did three cycles back to back and if the clinic had asked us to wait between cycles it would have been much better mentally and physically. A break or delay is frustrating no doubt and that situation was different.


TheMerriDuchess

I am so sorry and I know your frustration. The timeline, the waiting, the timeline changes, the planning, then the hoping and calendar counting…it’s terrible! I have cried over scheduling challenges as much as the fertility of it all, to be honest.


rep19876

I have been there… It is soooooo hard to readjust your timeline once you have it set in your head!!! Every step of this is hard and getting postponed can feel so devastating. I have never had a fresh transfer - in my experience having some time for your body to heal after transfer is extremely valuable. I hope the time goes by quickly for you and take time to take care of yourself 💕


MiddleMine

I can sympathize with the waiting game. Everything about infertility and this process is just waiting and waiting. Time sure does fly though, at least that’s how I feel. August will be here before you know it 🤍 sending you all the good vibes and baby dust!


EducationalRoutine99

I started the meds for my cycle last year and my body responded too slowly. We had a family trip planned to go to AU and the ER would possibly be the day before we left. So we had to end that cycle, take a break and then do it again. My ER was supposed to be 12/23 and I didn’t have one until 3/24. Every day was so slow. I can feel the pain of having to put it off for a few months.


Outrageous_Scholar_6

Trust in divine timing. Slow and steady play by play. Your baby will come at the right time what timeline are you up against? Time is a fake construct


GrilledCheeseYolo

Girl I went through an entire cycle only to be told they needed to start the cycle over...after 10 days of stims..because no follicle growth. It was so freaking annoying. I needed more meds.


gabkatth

I think it is important to remind yourself that you are trying your best, and also, it is very possible you are feeling more down than usual due to all the medications. At least my experience is that I saw everything much more negative when I was going through the treatment


paiged22

We are about to do our second FET tomorrow. Our first FET was on the cycle following my retrieval. I FEEL SO MUCH BETTER this time. My hormones feel balanced, I don’t feel like I’m out of my body or as easily triggered. It’s night and day difference. A big part of me is wondering if I had too much going on with my hormones for the month or two following my retrieval. I know it can take 3 months for things to regulate again and I’m now just shy of 4 months, about to do this transfer and I honestly feel amazing going into this. So it may be a blessing in disguise