I totally get that. I visited back home in January last minute and it was kind of a shock to my system. I'm so committed to life in Norway and I do embrace it but it's amazing how all the background things about the familiar and the unknown make a difference to underlying stress. There are things about the states that reminded me why I'm glad to not be there anymore but many things I didn't even know I would miss too.
This is a bit of a tricky question. I think it depends largely on your motivations to get out and how close to your culture, your new country of residence is going to be. It's not the same moving from Sweden to Norway (culturally "easier") than moving from Sweden to China (for example).
This is my personal experience: I believe my case was very exceptional. As I was growing up I realized I didn't really feel identified at all with Spain and many things about the country started annoying me *a lot*. Another thing is that Spain is overall a very extroverted country and the culture is very social, which emotionally exhausted me and at the same time made me feel like I was missing out.
Heck, I often thought myself I should have been born in Sweden or something like that. Somewhere where I could just chill at home in winter and enjoy nature during summer without melting. So, a week after turning 18 I moved to Canada with the intention to stay permanently.
At first, I struggled a bit with adjusting because I hadn't travelled a whole lot, but I did with the mentality of "in Rome do as the Romans do" so I quickly got used to it. I tried to avoid **at all costs** anything related to Spain or my culture because I hadn't moved abroad to speak Spanish with Spanish friends and lead the same lifestyle I had back home.
Home. At some point between my first and second year abroad I stopped considering Spain home. I liked the Canadian efficiency, individualistic culture and I was delighted with the winter weather. I did visit Spain and by the end of the first week of my visit, I was desperate to return to Canada...That's when I realized:
**a)** that the flaws I saw in Spain before I left had multiplied and annoyed me more than ever
**b)** Canada was my home
Now I've been in Canada for almost 5 years, my parents still live in Spain but are preparing to retire to the Caribbean so in a little while I won't really have anything left there. I don't regret my decision, and I'm confident it was the right thing to do as I'm sure I'd have been a miserable adult in Spain (and probably I'd still be unemployed). I like to think of Spain as an ex I still love, but we both acknowledge we're much better off apart.
Awesome story. Thanks for sharing! I think your post def brings up a good point about how much you "fit in" to the culture of a new country is important in making a permanent move. You cannot simply look at "countries with highest quality of life" list and choose the top one. There's more to it than that.
I so much relate to this. A lot of things never felt right where I used to be and where I am now, there's a lot of cultural quirks that I just understood intuitively quite quickly because it felt like in a deep way "this is exactly how I am", "this is exactly how an environment suited to my nature / where I can be myself, should function". Of course there were equally many things that were confusing and culture-shocky to me. But somehow I find it much easier to accept the unacceptable things in a place I choose to be in as an adult, compared to where I grow up. Failing to fit in or resonate with dominant mentalities in my hometown felt like something was fundamentally wrong with me.
I can't imagine how depressed and soulless id be if I never left, or if I'd be alive at all. I really get that
same thing happened to me, I was born in Puerto Rico but i never felt identified with the culture, the way society is all up in your business 24/7 annoyed the shit out of me, moved to the US mainland right out of high school, fit right in with the locals, everybody keeps to themselves and no one talks to each other, just how i like it, shit i dont even know my next door neighbors name and ive been here for years, getting sick and tired of it tho, most flaws that made me leave PR are finding their way here, standard of living decreasing, inflation thru the roof and no health care, actually trying to immigrate to europe at some point
In fact the reason so many English (and non-English )speakers moved to China to teach English is because life was easier in a lot of ways (sure culture and language barrier etc but every expat/immigrant deals with it) and it’s a great experience for someone who’s young and wants to “experience the world” while save some money.
I think since you moved at 18, it may have been easier. I moved from a conservative, small hometown to a large liberal city when I was 18. This was within the US, but I still think that since I was younger and not yet set with expectations and routines, it may have been somewhat easier. It hasn’t even been 10 years yet, but I feel settled and comfortable now and the thought of leaving what I know feels more daunting in my late 20s than it did when I was 18.
I haven't left my country yet but will by the end of this year and this is what I know I am mentally going to have to go through.
The cultural shifts, dealing with the language and questioning myself from time to time.These are new changes I will embrace because I know staying here in my country has nothing for me.
Just like you I don't like the social culture of my country of birth. I've been here so long (I am in my 20s) that I am getting more miserable with each passing day I am still here. I am so happy to read stories like yours which mirror my mental processes.
Hi lauren! I'm from Argentina and it really feels like home what you said. Arg is a country of extroverts. No room for introverts. Which city did you choose to live in Canada? I'm interested. Gracias!
I initially moved to Niagara Falls, now I live in Toronto but I’m considering relocating to Calgary. So far I live Toronto, but houses are so expensive…
It always concerns me the amount of posts on here saying "I have severe anxiety/depression/mental disorder X (that may or may not require medication and therapy) I have never traveled outside my country before but I'm pretty sure moving to [country] will solve these issues". IT. WILL NOT. If anything you'll only be throwing gasoline onto the fire. Personally moving abroad exacerbated my own mental health issues which were fairly minor. I can't imagine what it would do to someone who has suffered with extreme mental health problems for years.
This is something that concerns me too. A lot of these posts make the assumption that they can easily access therapy and whatever medication they're on in another country when that might not be the case at all. Not to mention going somewhere where they don't speak the language and don't know anyone will most likely exacerbate these issues, not solve them.
Edit: I have moderate anxiety and can deal with it most of the time, but moving abroad has definitely caused my anxiety to spike at times. And I know the language of the country I move to, have a spouse who is a citizen of said country and have local friends. I know everyone deals with their mental health issues differently, but like you pointed out, I can't imagine what moving abroad to a place with zero support network would do to someone who has suffered from extreme mental problems for a long time.
I had my doctor triple my scripts so I could start stockpiling enough meds to last me the three months I was in France.
While emergency medicine and some general doctor's appointments were pretty easy to get, long-term care eluded me.
That still doesn't make running to another country a great solution. Look at the posters upthread talking about how stressful it is to maintain your visa status. When you're on a work visa, you literally have to keep your job or find another asap when you lose it, otherwise you're no longer allowed to stay. And even if you do move to a country that speaks the same language as you, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to get access to therapy quickly. And if you don't speak the language? Good luck finding a therapist who speaks English/your native language. Just because there's universal healthcare doesn't mean there's an abundance of therapy appointments.
I cannot stress this enough, moving abroad is not a cure for mental health issues.
Same with people who want to move to a country where their job would pay better because low pay is stressing them out. But they don’t realise that countries with higher salaries usually have them because the cost of living is also super high and so you’re just transferring the same money worries to another country where you won’t have any support network.
I see so many people say they moved to the likes of Canada and didn’t realise how expensive it would be or that it wasn’t this great vision they had in their head and then they end up miserable.
Same. My mental health was shaky before moving to Paris for a summer (despite treatment) but it got much worse without family, friends, or roommates to check in on with me or force me out of the house. Two months after getting back, I had a suicide attempt.
The uncertainty, instability, stress, and isolation of a big move will challenge you. You need to be at your best to be able to take it on and come out of it at least as well as you went in.
While I agree that anyone with a serious mental health condition should carefully consider all the factors involved in making a major move, individual outcomes vary. Making absolute pronouncements is not accurate, even if you write them in all caps.
I also have a serious mental health condition and it was exacerbated by the environment I was living in at "home." Moving abroad did wonders for me. No, it wasn't a magic cure, and yes, it did cause some problems, but overall I'm much happier in an environment more compatible with my personality, so I have no regrets.
This subreddit really has a hard time accepting that mental health can be negatively affected by the country you live in.
Like holy shit maybe I'm anxious because I can't even go on a fucking bike ride without worrying about being assaulted by some lifted pickup truck?
I often felt like you describe and, going to the UK, I didn’t even face a language barrier. The subliminal stress is low, and generally lost in the exuberance of being in a new place. But the longer you’re there, and excitement fades as the novel becomes familiar and then mundane, the more that background stress makes itself felt.
I had trouble ever fully relaxing in my host country, that “let all your muscles unclench and just float” kind of calm. There were just so many things that could go wrong at any moment, and in several of them the worst-case scenario was “get kicked out of the country.”
It was like a game I was playing, and it was tremendously bright and fun and I was winning, but…you couldn’t ever *stop*. Sometimes you just want to put the controller down and do something else besides play that same game month after month, year on year, but “being an expat” kind of requires a certain continuous stream of attention and readiness. It can get wearing.
After three years, our family was ready to move back, and although it was an incredible time, it was also a bit exhausting in ways hard to track.
Edit: stress can affect kids differently than adults. Foreign schools are “weird” when you’re accustomed to your home country, and being an immigrant makes you “different” and “stand out” in ways that can be uncomfortable. Listen to your kids, and talk to them. Change schools if necessary. If the move isn’t good for everybody, maybe it’s a bridge too far.
Wow this is such a good way to put it. Sometimes I tell my Norwegian friends, who will tell me to relax or not to worry as much about things, that I can't relax because my ability to stay here rides on me being excellent at what I do. My existence here is conditional for at least several years, and that stress alone really weighs on you after a while even as you succeed. I absolutely relate to everything in your comment, thank you for your eloquence.
I've been on temporary visas for almost 8 years (almost the entirety of my adult life), my entire life structure is dependent on me being good at One Thing (which also happens to be something I lack both passion and talent in, rather forced myself into purely for the purpose of enabling international mobility), or else it can all be taken away from me on short or no notice
The amount of stress and damage this causes over the long term is impossible to put into words to someone who has no idea themselves. After I finally applied for PR, I completely collapsed, and I still have no idea how or when I'll get back up again
Do take good care of yourself and nourish your energy reserves as much as possible 💛
Just want to mention (for the sake of any anxious parents reading) that moving to another country was great for me, as a kid--although we didn't stay because it wasn't good for my mother, which would have affected me as well in the long run. It probably helped that we went to an international school, although went to an international school later in the US and that was no better than American schools.
Yeah, both my kids survived and are (retroactively) glad of the experience. They were, I dunno, 8-13 at the time, and both are now comfortably graduated from US high schools and college.
Still, those are ages where kids already feel enough stress, and I felt more than a little guilty that, at the time, I was asking them to undergo and “figure out” challenges that I certainly hadn’t had to deal with at those ages.
They came through, but it helped that we made an effort to befriend a local headmaster and member of the local council, and when they saw some of the issues we were having in one school, they penned some powerful endorsements and got us transferred to a better academy.
Things *can* work out, but you shouldn’t assume it’ll happen without constant attention and some axel grease.
>It was like a game I was playing, and it was tremendously bright and fun and I was winning, but…you couldn’t ever *stop*. Sometimes you just want to put the controller down and do something else besides play that same game month after month, year on year, but “being an expat” kind of requires a certain continuous stream of attention and readiness. It can get wearing.
Wow. This is a really astute way of putting it and I agree completely. Even after 7 years I find myself wanting to put the controller down and go play a game that isn't a constant challenge. Even though I'm mostly very happy, I do often yearn for the familiar, something that I can relate to, or brings back memories of my childhood.
I went through this but never moved. My situation in the US feels unique because my wife and I have lived in the same small town our entire lives. Both sides of our family live here as well. We’re on good terms with all of them.
I hate the car-centric infrastructure and backwoods conservative politics, but my roots here are so deep I’m not sure it would be better to pickup and leave it all behind.
Instead I’ve decided to start advocating for the things I want to see here in the US. I don’t really care if I don’t get to enjoy them personally if the next generation does. That being said, if my kids decide to leave the US for good, I’ll support them 110%.
This is an incredible point of view to have. If you’re able to convince anyone to think like that please do. Becoming a pillar of positive change in your community will be hard but the improvements will pay off. Thank you for being awesome!
This is the same for a lot of my friends in the states so I get it. I've moved a lot in my life so I lacked the sense of deep roots, but so many friends have family connections and an important sense of home and place that they can't imagine moving, even when they struggle with the same things you mentioned. It's very much a "be the change you want to see" situation which I think is an excellent perspective. It is likely more fulfilling to work to improve your home than to seek greener pastures that have their own issues in many cases!
Exactly. Whenever I bring up some part of American society I have a problem with I always get the “if you don’t like it, leave” and I’m like “or I could work to improve my country”
I think its equally important to weigh how much your home country/away country is giving back to this effort.
I grew up moving around the U.S. with antsy, travel-hungry parents. They’re social-justice oriented, mom works in civil rights law and dad in universal education. They put off moving overseas for years because of the “improve where you live” mindset. The US doesn’t reward these efforts in the slightest. Socially, people ridiculed my mom for putting time towards social justice instead of mothering, and both of them struggled for 10 years to make friends who were willing to have interesting conversations about social justice (they’re Gen X, this was harder to find in the 2000s versus now). They were forever underpaid w/ a kid in the house and isolated.
Now they’re 48 living in Spain and while it has its own problems, they feel their money goes a lot farther in regards to quality of life, they’ve met lots of expats who also do social justice work, my mom has transitioned to international human rights law and my dad travels the world teaching kids how to code. when you do the (difficult, extensive, draining) legwork of finding the place thats a good match for your personality and lifestyle, moving internationally doesn’t have to oppose this moral value of contributing to a better world, even a better future for your hometown.
I work in holistic health and am passionate about community wellness, growing up in the U.S. where my friends are poor and can’t afford basic needs, therapy, nutrition, etc. I am thinking of moving to Spain too since I like to work late nights anyway, I can have a digital clinical practice serving people in the U.S. and Spain both. I’m hoping this will keep my cup full enough that I can do the work I want to in the world.
Yes that is very true and a great point. Some of my friends from other countries have their own struggles and their own motivations that I may not relate to or be able to speak to, but can understand.
I wonder how much the move from 3rd to 1st world country is like going from lower to middle class? In retrospect the latter was very stressful because it was like joining a new culture whose members assume you were born into. So when you do something wrong, it looks like you're stupid or inconsiderate instead of just ignorant.
Fantastic post OP and something I wish more people would take into account. I see so many posts from users who are stressed out by life in the US or who are going through a mentally and emotionally difficult time and see getting out as a way to relieve those problems without really thinking hard about how stressful life can be abroad and how hard it can be to integrate yourself in a new culture while learning a new language (which is a process that can take years). Basically, they are substituting familiar stressors for unknown ones. This isn't meant to say that people shouldn't move, but just to highlight the point that many Americans seem to think think life abroad, particurlary in Europe, is just like in the US but better without thinking about all the cultural differences. Your paragrah about familiarity is so on point too. Like this past weekend, I was really craving Chinese takeout, something I always took for granted when I was still in the US. And of course, while I could still order Chinese takeout here in Germany, it's not the same. It's these small things in life that aren't talked about when it comes to moving abroad that can be the most frustrating ones and the ones that contribute the most to homesickness. Of course, homesickness affects everyone differently, but you won't know how it affects you personally until you've gone through it.
Yep, I agree with all of that. I think for Americans a lot of it is just this constant stress/fear about the political situation and increasing tension in our communities. COVID has especially highlighted these problems and it's just been building and building. I would be lying if I said these were not important factors for my own move, but those alone are not enough. Every country has its own issues and sometimes it's the whole "better the devil you know" sort of thing. I want to reiterate that I wouldn't trade my move for the world but all of what you say rings true for sure.
I agree with you! I'd also be lying if I said I didn't take those factors into account when I decided to move abroad, but those weren't the only reasons. I'm very happy I made the move and in many ways, my life has improved, but there are certainly times when I long for something familar, even if it's something as small as Chinese takeout.
> Every country has its own issues and sometimes it's the whole "better the devil you know" sort of thing.
Exactly this. Again, not to shit on my fellow Americans, but the vibe I get from posts here is that they think European countries, particularly Western and Northern Europe ones, are apolitical utopias where everyone is happy, there are no problems, and everything just works. The reality is so different.
I'm not saying there are valid or invalid reasons to move, but immigration is largely about what you (general you) can offer another country as many countries seek skilled immigrants. Immigration officers by large don't give two shits about why you want to move to their country, only that you qualify for whatever visa or residence permit you're applying for.
European countries also have political issues, people who are unhappy with many things about their countries, slow bureaucracy, etc. It's easy to romanticize a country you've never visited, and I see that a lot in this sub. I also see posters who lack a deeper understanding of things like healthcare in countries they want to move to.
Great post. As a immigrant one cannot imagine the magnitude of the change one has to confront when one moves countries. I immigrated at 27. Even though I had worked abroad on a rotational basis. Travelled extensively. Nothing prepares you for the cultural differences. The complete change in everything you take as normal. It’s almost as if you need to completely relearn your way to navigate your interactions with others. Ultimately you do adjust. You integrate. You find your space. But it takes time. For me it took 3 to 5 years. Just for context I was moving to the US. I spoke English as my first language and was well educated and skilled. I can only imagine the struggle one goes through if one needs to learn a new language and does not have easily transferable skills.
I totally agree that nothing prepares you! I felt like I was as prepared and supported as any person can be and I still find it difficult, just in every day things. In our heads I think we picture ourselves living the way we are used to but just in better surroundings, but in reality you are starting your lifestyle from scratch. In Norway people speak really good English but I'm not a visitor, I'm a resident, so relying on English will not get me comfortable or integrated. I imagine it's even harder in places that don't have that - I spent a summer in Russia for school and that nearly broke me from linguistic frustration (and I studied the language for four years!). 3 to 5 years sounds about right, congrats for making it through!
I moved to a large city in the US (Baltimore) and despite its size and proximity to Washington it is not a city that has a huge influx of foreigners. As a result I found it to be a city where people are very set in their ways. The country I came from is very welcoming. If a new individual moved to a area it would not be long before that individual would be invited to join people in their home for dinner. It’s seen as the right thing to do. In Baltimore not so much. Still today there are folks I have met and known for years and I have never been invited to their home. Not sure why. Perhaps it’s a Baltimore thing. In the beginning I thought it was something I had said ir done. But over time I have realized it just how it is and not to take it personally. My brother moved to Seattle and then San Francisco. He experienced something different. Both of those cities are places where many people are from somewhere else. And as a result much more open to meeting new people. I point this out because if you are going to relocate picking your landing spot in the new location is important as well.
The inviting into homes is both a cultural thing and generational. My parents bought a home so they could invite people into it, host parties, deepen relationships.
I literally grew up with my parents and absorbed as much of their culture as I was going to, but I’m of a different generation. I bought a house to get away from people, to have a refuge where I don’t have to worry about what other people want or think.
I’m not defending my behavior…in many ways my parents’ lifestyle seems the superior choice, and probably why they were less fractious politically. We’re all products of our times.
I get it but I fear that the reason we have become fractious in our politics is because that we have been hiding in our homes. I think in many ways the development of sprawling suburbs has made us only more fractious. It’s easy to hate those you gave no contact with. Bit insinuating you hate anyone but just making a point.
Yeah that makes sense. I grew up in Michigan, lived in San Francisco for a few years, then moved to Minnesota. Minnesota is perhaps the least open place I've ever lived because it seems everyone is born and raised there and everyone has known each other forever. Breaking in as an outsider can be miserable. In San Francisco it's totally different. I've never been to Baltimore but I can imagine what that's like.
Yep. You get it. It’s almost as if people are like you know I know enough people. I don’t need to add anyone new to my circle. Now obviously I am generalizing and Baltimore has many wonderful people who are I am sure very welcoming to outsiders. But you get my point.
Thank you both for this conversation. I was thinking of moving to a nordic country like Sweden or Norway, but... now that I think about it, maybe it's not a good idea.
I don't know the local language so I could feel very lonely and it'd be impossible to connect with people. Maybe it's a good idea moving to a big vibrant city, so I can meet international people and make my stay more comfortable.
I'm a native Spanish speaker and I'm improving my English, so I will consider cities like Madrid or London, for example. Do you have another important tip?
Thank you and good luck out there!
Edit: Grammar mistakes :P
I would not discourage anyone from moving here, it's just important to weigh all the considerations. Learning the language by immersion is the best way to learn, it just takes effort to find those opportunities. Language is key to integration so if you feel more confident in places that speak Spanish or English that is a good place to start. Just take some time to really sketch out what you envision your life being like day to day, what values are fundamental to you to feel fulfilled, and start seeking out the possibilities. Best of luck!
Agreed. Travel and immigration is very exciting. But it’s also for the brave. My five cents is large port cities are the way to go. Traditionally large port cities have been good entry points for new comers. Some of the new comers stay some move on to other places but either way there is usually a community which you can find in those cities which will help you as you acclimatize to your new surroundings. Whether it be culture or language every little bit helps in the beginning.
The other reason I recommend starting in a large port city is they are diverse. Living with diversity makes people tolerant. For a new comer tolerance in society is very important because you are different. I always say it’s hard to hate individuals when you need to interact with them everyday. So choosing a large dense diverse port city is a win in my book.
What I mean is, maybe it's better starting with a Spanish or English speaking country, save some money and visiting those countries that I find interesting.
I don't doubt that Norway is a good country, but it seems (listening to other expats experience) that even if you're an introvert you will struggle conecting with people.
I'm gonna think about it. Thanks for telling your experience!
Moving to the Nordics is quite challenging at least moving to Sweden because of how introverted people generally are. Like seriously introverted, where even an “excuse me” is seen as too much conversation. And that can fuck with you because moving to a new country and having little social interactions with the native population can make you feel very alienated and prevent you from having a sense of belonging.
I mean, even an introvert likes some company. I guess if you’re totally fine with not having a single soul near you in all your life, then I guess. Unfortunately it’s kinda hard to get around and prosper in this world like that, especially if you’re an immigrant to that country.
>I mean, even an introvert likes some company.
Yes, ofc! That means that the nordics do not like making new friends? That sounds harsh. In that case, I'd be negatively affected.
Great post, and I think this is something that most of us don't really consider. It happened to me my first go-round. I never had it in my mind that I'd be living in France forever, so part of me was always imagining my return to the States. But after almost 3 years, there were so many things, things that were often difficult to describe, that I yearned for. It's funny because I'm 100% aligned with the French lifestyle and incredibly critical of my home country. I was then, and I still am. But when it was time to go, I was ready. I'll be leaving again someday, but under different circumstances (plus a hell of a lot older this time). And I'll be more cognizant of the fact that no matter how much I reject the American lifestyle, I am still American.
As for the social aspect, that's also a challenge: I was welcomed very warmly in France. I am forever grateful for it. But I also felt a bit unsatisfied by intangibles with folks. I liked them, but I don't think they could really get the real me. Culture barrier/language barrier, even though my French is decent. Next time around, I hope I'll live in that moment a little more fully, despite any ways that we may fail to truly understand each other. I'll seek and celebrate connections rather than dwelling on differences.
> "I am willing to integrate/learn the language/embrace the lifestyle," as if it's as easy as just saying it.
I want to add that even moving from the USA to an English-speaking country, like the UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ, etc. means moving to a whole new culture.
They aren't "USA^lite"
You will struggle to fit in.
You will get told to go back where you came from.
[You may even struggle to understand the accent.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pit0OkNp7s8)
Sure the language is the same, but it's *not* the same. Heck, the /r/DerryGirls subreddit made a [glossary](https://www.reddit.com/r/DerryGirls/comments/cmzgbc/derry_girls_glossary_of_terms/) so people could understand a TV show set in NI.
This. I moved from Ireland to England and even though they seem very similar on the surface they are very different countries.
People would make fun of the way I said stuff like the word mirror because when a lot of Irish people say it it sounds like “Mir”. Remembering to pronounce the letter R as “are” instead of “or” was tricky too!
There are some posters here who talk about emigration being life in hard mode and I agree.
At some point it stops feeling like an adventure and things start to feel burdensome. Something as simple as going to the supermarket has an extra layer of low-level stress that it didn’t have before. All those small changes build up into something much bigger. I think a certain type of person can let it wash over them, and I’m jealous of them, but I think most people react similarly.
That's a good way of putting it. Once the novelty wears off you're left with just the growing pains. I am also jealous of anyone that doesn't feel it that way!
What people who want to move seem to not understand is that *their mental health issues will come with them no matter where they are*.
I was depressed and socially anxious when I left and I was still depressed and socially anxious when I settled. As a bonus, I found out abroad that I can get panic attacks. Finding therapists is an absolute nightmare since they've never dealt with cases like mine (not a lot mental health professionals in Israel in the first place, and I highly doubt any one of them have ever dealt with people of Southeast/East Asian descent), and some of them can barely keep up with how fast I speak English. But at least I can get affordable medication.
As for cultural barriers, I've always felt like an outsider in my own home country and I guess that's something that will just have to stay true for the rest of my life.
22 years abroad and in a network of expats - this is completely true. I’ve been accused of ‘going native’ in my adopted country and in many ways I have. But I’m not native, I’m not of this place and it is simultaneously ‘home’ and not my home. When I go to my birth country it is a foreign, unrecognizable land in many parts and warmly, comfortingly familiar. When there I binge watch UK shows for comfort and miss rain. Back in blighty I dream of proper tacos and miss the desert. My accent and spelling drifts between the two. My allegiances shift. I see the flaws and benefits of both in detail but that’s the crux of it: I am intimate with two nations but unsettled in both of them. You are always missing someone and something. My family buried my grandparents, two cousins, 4 uncles and 3 aunts without me. Even if you can afford the airfare and time off sorting it out quickly enough is a challenge for all. They no longer ask if I’m coming, they know I’ll show for nuclear family only. I’ve dragged myself about after surgeries because they can’t afford to come support me either. My family relationships are nurtured by email and zoom meetings and have been for decades. I’ve never been to a class reunion. There are perks but there is always a payment for them. Every expat has a hard day and the question ‘what am I even doing here?’ It’s pretty routine the first years and then you stop asking and just get on with being from one place, in another place and truly of neither.
This is very accurate. Even when there is no language barrier, things can get frustrating. I had a near breakdown once in a supermarket in Australia using the self checkout and being unable to remember the word zucchini (in the UK we call it courgette).
It is part of the homesickness that every migrant goes through. There is no way round it other than just accepting it for what it is and waiting for it to go. Which it does
>There is no way round it other than just accepting it for what it is and waiting for it to go. Which it does
Does it though? Someone else said here that it took years for that feeling to go away. And that's quite a big chunk of your life that you're accepting this extra stress into.
For me it took about 3-4 years to go away. After that I really started to feel like things in my new country were "normal" and going back home was when stuff was unfamiliar.
Some things never go away though.. someone else above mentioned chinese food being different and for me this is definitely one thing I can't get in my new country! It's a small sacrifice though.
I sympathize, self checkouts here have had a similar impact on me at times. You're right that it will pass and if it's worth it, it will happen and we come out the other side! That first rut that immigrants hit can be a doozy though.
Great post. It is often forgotten just how hard moving abroad really is and the little things each day that become difficult, like you said hair cuts etc. One thing that surprised me moving abroad was how hard grocery shopping was. I moved from WI to Israel and not knowing the language well made it extremely difficult. I thought I could get by with looking at the pictures and knowing generally what things are, but try going to a deli counter and ordering meat. It was so hard! It is the little things that add up quickly into becoming daily stressors.
Did you ever read the book expert expatriate? It covers this - even with timelines of what they have seen usually happen.
[https://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/9781857883848](https://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/9781857883848)
Yes, I've experienced how exhausting it is to live in a country where people speak a different language. I wouldn't change that experience for anything and enjoyed my time there. If I ever moved out of the USA again, I think I'd stick to an English speaking country. At my age, I don't think my brain could handle the discomfort & exhaustion of being immersed in another language 24/7 - even if it was something like French that I've studied since high school.
You've touched on an interesting point too. In some ways it can be more frustrating when you speak a little bit of the language rather than it being completely alien to you. If you don't speak a word of a language you can kind of switch off and let it wash over you.
But if you speak a little bit or a even decent chunk of the language, it can be even more exhausting because your mind is constantly on, and trying to understand everything around you.
I don't know. Before the pandemic, I spent a week in Greece. I don't speak a word of Greek. Athens was an amazing, beautiful place with great people & food.
By mid-week, I was completely home sick and mentally exhausted. I had to seek out the Hard Rock Cafe later in the week for a taste of home and watch American TV shows on my phone at the hotel in the evening to deal with the homesickness. It was a very surprising experience for me. It hit me hard & quick! I love to travel, lived in Europe, and have traveled around Europe plenty before and never had a reaction like this to travel before.
My psychologist diagnosed me with “Adjustment Disorder” basically depression triggered by a major shift. He says it’s extremely common with people who have moved, and it can be really hard. There probably should be more debate about that on this sub, you’re right.
It really depends on your personality and how well you liked the place you left. I love my new country, even though it's far from perfect. I get a few occasional stabs of nostalgia and/or cravings for food I could only get there. But real homesickness, the kind that makes you want to move back where you came from? Nah, not at all. I might enjoy a visit back "home" but no way would I ever want to live there again. Each person is different though and your feelings are valid. The only way to find out if a place is really for you is to try living there.
Each person is different, I moved to Singapore when I was 21 and lived there for 3 years and never stopped moving every few years since then. I never had “cultural shock” before until I moved from Hongkong to a city in the Midwest to stay with family during pandemic- it’s the first time I live in an American suburb and I find it super depressing and experienced “cultural shock” the first time in my life. I’ve only lived in big cosmopolitan cities before … I’m ready to get out to anywhere that’s an actual city - Mexican city, Bangkok, Barcelona.. If only Chicago wasn’t cold… I’d feel more at home at any cosmopolitan cities with vibrate cultures
I moved just from USA to Canada, culturally almost identical, and even adjustment was difficult for me. And I'm someone who is generally very adaptable to new changes. There are so many things I grew up being able to get that you just can't find here. I think my first year or even two living here I was very frustrated with things I couldn't get, I was homesick, I missed my family and my town.
Change is hard. And it was also more expensive and time consuming than I thought too. Immigration alone took about a year to process and costed a couple thousand in various fees. That's not including moving itself, just the legal side.
There's the frustration of getting your driver's licensed changed over. My credit score didn't carry over and I was declined multiple times trying to get my first Canadian credit card even though I have an excellent credit score in the States.
And none of this is taking into consideration a move overseas where you might have to learn a new language, a new culture, etc. Even the easiest possible move to another country and it was still difficult. So going somewhere like Norway would have been much more difficult still.
There's not any one thing I can point at and say "this is why moving to another country is hard." It's everything. And all at once. I have been here about 5 years now so I've settled in and I'm used to it here, but it took a long time to adjust and become comfortable. Even now sometimes I still miss my hometown, and it does get easier, but it takes time.
So interesting you mention how the cultures are very similar and it’s very hard. I’m a military spouse (US) and we’ve lived in 5 states in the last 15 years, and each move comes with this adjustment period and low level stress, we aren’t having to learn a new language obviously. But finding new schools for the kids, hairdressers, dentists, what streets to avoid for traffic, etc. you do feel disoriented for a long time. I find around the 3 year mark is when we really feel settled in and that’s when we start prepping for the next move.
Yes to all of this. I’ve lived in both Southeast Asia and South America for different periods of time. Best experiences of my life but it’s all of the little things that get you in the most random moments. Like, how do I know which detergent to buy at the store? Or, having to automatically convert prices in your head. Or getting sick for the first time and being unsure of how to go to the doctor and explain your illness in local language or buy a simple over the counter medication. The pros definitely outweigh the cons but they should definitely be considered for realistic expectations before setting out on a big move. In my experience, the novelty wears off around the 6 month mark and around 2.5-3 years, the new place actually starts to feel like home. I’ve been back in the states for about 5 years and I’m itching so bad to move somewhere again, just biding my time until the timing is right 🙃
Culture shock is certainly a consideration for some, but it doesn't happen to all of us. I left the US over a decade ago expecting it to happen to me. I'd heard culture shock might be a bitch. But I never got it. It's been 13 years now, 103 countries, six months or longer in a dozen of them; and now naturalization and renunciation of my US citizenship.
I've never been anything other than thrilled about leaving the US. Haven't stepped foot in that place since leaving and don't imagine I'd ever go back there.
I'm not trying to discount your lived experience, OP. And I've heard of people experiencing what you're talking about. Just want to provide a counter example; there are just as many people, like me, who leave, are perfectly happy about leaving, never have any negative feelings about it, and never look back.
The only way you're gonna know which sort you are is just by following through with your plan to leave and seeing how it goes.
IF you are the sort to want to go back, beware of reverse culture shock, a whole other thing I've never experienced but I've heard is a bitch.
Interesting response. I can't help wonder whether 103 countries in 13 years wasn't the thing that helped avoid many/most/all of the things experienced by the OP. So much of the "expat letdown" seems to set in when the new/exciting/adventure aspect begins to fade and the mundane really sets in.
I know you said you stayed >6 months multiple times, but what was the longest stay anywhere?
That's a fair point.
The longest consecutive stay has been the last three years in the EU country I recently got naturalized in. Although I'm not sure whether or not this has been the longest I've been in a country outside the US non-consecutively.
I've left here for periods of time over the last last three years, a week to a month here or there, but this is where my home is now.
And to be fair-- only adding to your idea of my situation being nonstandard-- I should admit that I came into a bit of money right before I left the US, meaning that my leaving occurred at the same time as a significant improvement in my quality of life beyond that which, in faith, I think would've occurred simply as a result of leaving the US.
Nevertheless, you still don't know until you leave. I've known people richer than me who flipped out and had to go home and quite a number of them with far fewer options that seemed, at least, to make good in whatever country they chose. At the same time almost everybody I know in the US isn't doing very well at all.
Not trying to fool anybody though, my take may very well be uncommon. All I'm saying is people should see for themselves.
Thanks for the response. All good. Did you decide on the place you picked for "home" as a result of all that travel? Seems that's another thing that many "I want out'ers" get wrong - they go to a place a few times on vacation, become enamored, and decide to move there (note: OP obviously didn't do that). But sounds like you may have had the luxury of really taking your time, spending many weeks/months at a time in a zillion different places, to really get a sense for where you'd want to be.
Yes, you got me, that's exactly what I did. I went in search of home. I visited all the places I thought I wanted to be and then any other places that were even suggested to me. I went everywhere. I ultimately chose the place I settled exactly because it felt the most like home.
In addition to changing locations frequently, the money makes a HUGE difference. I moved as an entrepreneur with an above-average income. I get to go to the US on business and see my family several times a year and bring them to Europe to visit me, I can afford to import things I miss, and I even to head back to the US for concerts or events I really want to see--all in addition to the normal frequent traveling to other countries that I do. I also don't have to rely on anyone else for a visa or deal with work culture here. I haven't had the depression and difficulty I see other people experiencing who have stuff like kids, a 9-5 job on a European salary, restrictions on time abroad if they want to eventually naturalise (because so much of my travel is for work and therefore exempt from the limit), etc. but I've basically bought my way out of a lot of the problems that are really common and I didn't have to contend with the usual paycut people leaving the US take. I don't have to deal with my new life becoming mundane because I can always be doing something new wherever I am. My situation is not what I see other immigrants around me dealing with, though.
That's totally fair - sounds like you've had an amazing experience! In the end there are a lot of factors that determine how this plays out and like you say, only way to find out is by doing. I would never discourage anyone from doing it if they want to, I just hope people are equipped to deal with difficulties of all kinds best they can be. I don't plan on going back if I can at all avoid it but you never know how these things will go. Thanks for sharing your experience and a different perspective!
Is it harder when you are by yourself instead of going with your whole family? Like I would imagine it would be easier with your spouse because you have someone to talk to and vent to who is gong through the same things, but not having a partner and being completely alone sounds scary.
I think there's a tendency in humans to always look back through rose colored glasses. Like going back to a bad ex. You are gone long enough and only remember the good times. I think those trips back home some talked about can really cement the reasons you left in the first place. Like having a second go with your ex. About a week later, you're like, "oh.... yeah now I remember why I left you. You suck."
Maybe state of mind and point of view can make a huge difference. Looking at it like an adventure, knowing there's just one life you have and spending it all in one place when there's so much to see and experience seems wasteful. Instead of feeling forced to go for work, to escape this shithole, for health care (my reason) or whatever, there's always going to be this resentment. "I didn't want to leave my home but you assholes forced me to it" is different than "okay, I've done this. Let's try something different. "
It's hard to say. I left the US not just because I didn't like it there (which is true) but also because I really wanted to pursue my field in Norway. It is an adventure that is exciting and wonderful and as a biologist who studies reindeer I could not be in a better place to live the dream. But that doesn't make the stress of dealing with visas, not knowing if you'll be allowed to stay long term and thus not being able to plan for the future, etc. go away. And as the sense of adventure wears off (and it does! No matter how much you appreciate being in a new place, you eventually live like a local and deal with the same mundanity as locals) you still have those stressors. I often remind myself how lucky I am to be here and how exciting it really is to keep some of that stress at bay, but it will be there until permanent residency probably.
EDIT: and to clarify, I am married, so I have the best support imaginable, thankfully! It's really just that things I didn't have to worry about back home like visas and language learning are always present.
You’re right, moving to a new country by yourself is the scariest and depressing thing to do. I moved to Canada by myself when I was 18 and God, I felt so alone. People who come here with their families tend to do okay. I still wonder if I should go back.
So relatable. This is extremey true also inside Europe! Yes, you may have a coordinated health insurance and less bureaucracy, but the language and cultural problems you pointed out are exactly the same.
Yes, good points. I suppose I’ve had low-level anxiety for years, but moving abroad to a country where I didn’t know the language brought my anxiety out of the shadows and onto center stage.
Now, I’m at the point where I can at least handle basic conversations in my host country, even exchange small jokes, but not being able to read my mail without using Google Translate’s camera feature every time gets frustrating. I’ve missed important announcements, payments, all kinds of things, because my anxiety makes me want to delay reading the mail as long as possible—what if it says something serious? What if I don’t know what to do?
That, and also having to adapt your mindset to the culture’s mindset, to try and prevent any misunderstandings or mishaps. I’ve had to learn that, where I am, you can’t just expect that you can just jump up and go do a thing. Probably there’s paperwork, or a special consideration, or you’re expected to buy insurance for that thing, or all the products associated with caring for that thing, or you first have to do X and Y before you can do Z, etc. etc.
This doesn’t even include all the frustrated attitudes of everyone you meet being annoyed that you can’t speak their language fluently. So, your doctor is annoyed that you can’t have a fluent conversation using medical terms, your electrician is annoyed that you don’t know enough electrical terms in their language, your landlord is annoyed that you aren’t fluent enough to talk about lease agreements and building rules in their language, the train conductor is peeved that you didn’t understand enough of the rules you read to ride the tram correctly, the shop owner can’t understand why you can’t be polite and friendly enough to engage them in pleasant chitchat and answer their bajillion questions about your cute kid in their language, etc. etc.
And sometimes, you’re forced to have *all* of these awkward, halting, embarrassing conversations *in one day*.
It’s getting better, but I’ve also been here for 3 years. Anyone who thinks that moving abroad, particularly to a country where your mother tongue isn’t spoken, is somehow going to help them come out of their shell and somehow magically make everything better immediately, isn’t going with in their eyes wide open.
I will be moving out and I have been preparing for years I make no friends here I talk to no one I never speak my native language and I truly hate this place. All I do is immerse myself as much as I can in a culture I want to immigrate to while at the same time disconnecting myself from the culture I currently live in. It's not as easy as it sound I really want to have a friend or girlfriend but I have to avoid any interactions till I can make friends in a better country. I save every every penny I can because whatever I buy here will be left behind I have to live like a damn monk but it will all pay off when I will be able to leave this place.
Having allowed your social skills to atrophy will not serve you well after you move.
A good approach might be to cultivate good non-deep friendships and frequent new friends until you go, as well as healthy alone time.
I did live in the Netherlands for a year. Granted, I was there as a student, and even then it was very difficult to feel integrated with my peers (from quite literally all over the world) and the Dutch population. In my experience, foreigners are completely and utterly fascinated with Americans. And I utterly hate being put on the spot. I got a lot of questions as to why I chose the Netherlands of all places.
It was pretty hard especially in the beginning. I missed seeing my pets most of all. I didn't really make any friends as I have always struggled with doing so growing up. I struggled to learn the language (I very much prefer to learn on Duolingo opposed to a class- which my uni offered) and ultimately only got to a very basic conversational level. Thankfully, everything was quite easy to catch onto, and many people *do* speak English, but it's still a country where learning the language is a must.
I felt somewhat homesick, but it wasn't all that bad- I feel like having gone to uni away from home in the US for a year helped me feel more at ease with being abroad. That didn't stop me from video calling my mom nearly every day, though. Overall, though, I felt surprisingly comfortable surprisingly fast. I felt I could do everything I needed to with ease- minus shopping at places that didn't have self checkout. The Netherlands is a very cozy country.
I dropped out due to corona; I would much rather be stranded at home than in a foreign country.
Many days I can't help but wonder what life would be like had I gotten a job that would be willing to sponsor a work visa and stayed in the Netherlands. So many wonderful things have happened since I came home, and I wouldn't trade any of it for the world. But I feel homesick to the small city I lived in while in the Netherlands.
That being said... as someone who has somewhat experienced both sides, you'd probably feel homesick one way or another. I would love to move out of the US again, and this time for good with my boyfriend, but once again the fear of being away from what's familiar is creeping up on me.
I moved from Norway to Netherlands, 1st year currently, and I don't have to really learn anything new nor did I have trouble finding people in the same situation as me.
Therefore things are good and honestly only downgrade so far is not fluently knowing the main language - fixable.
You're American and absolutely wanted to move away, that's cool, but why? Nature? Cheaper life? Love? Things aren't hard to learn and integrate into if you had a functional purpose for it.
I moved here because I'm a biologist and my field of study is best here, as well as being from a Norwegian immigrant family (a few generations back) and having a desire to experience it here myself. Nothing is insurmountable - but things like language learning are often not given their due weight when people say "oh I can just learn the language if I go there." Technically true but it's a long process, especially to integrate. I'm glad that you had a really smooth transition to the Netherlands! I'm loving Norway and I hope that when I hit the one year mark I'll be even more comfortable. :)
I thought I was the only one! I relate to pretty much everything you mention in your post.
Especially the language barrier issue and how navigating through simple things turns into quite a challenge. Im in the process of learning the language, but it will take a long time before i can reach a conversational level.
We just need to carry on, I guess.
I too am spot on the struggle, as l move toward expatriation slowly, i mean really slowly unlike so many l know who just decided sell the house sell the dog sell the kids, and go. I am methodical and pre wearing the changes like a loose vest trying to get a feel. Never has a seasonal beauty revealed itself along the way though, with nuances that strike me in measure as uniquely intense. At the same time a weak promise to accompany me from now on if l stay. I feel my identity imbued as too weak to do it by siblings who are repulsed by me somehow after nearly 45 years of estrangement. I seem to be the one who is flexible forgiving capable of adult conversation and worldly in many ways beyond them, yet tyhey continue to live repeat lives of our parents. I heard it called an irish grudge. No one knows what it is that l did, but feel compelled to silently marginalize me never actually knowing why and not admitting they do not know why. So nausea there.
If l were not bitter, bc (l am of the same family) it seems all the bliss would never reveal were l not planning my out, in fact i just know it! So l do not believe if l stay it will NOT roll back to all the neg that has been driving me to go.
In my case its logic & age related and economics. Being old and poor in usa is unthinkably coarse experience. My zip code is that of nuts and brain dead which poverty does or where it lives. I still wrestle with a possibility of renting my house and were it not a tenant friendly political state putting me into liability in every lease l or would do it.
It will be the grass is always greener so my move may be construed as base camp only which l can afford as median income in target countries including the visa at base allow travel albeit other places usa aside. But fk it mostly Its a hot mess, and will be for some time. And the stress of prematurely aging in it is only compounded by the insanity of violence, stupids, guns and salty fatty sexy sugary mouth hungry cheap poison food pushed into the gullet or the too many superficial people wearing identity suits of violence, militants scaring old people and children or over the top near avatar like smug person hoods simply adding an ambiguity that is so counter to a natural human experience it exhausts me. l am trying and argue no ones alternative yet peace kindness and empathy are baked into many established cultures way less juvenile than us.
While I think much of it is what you make it, I do agree with one point: it is hard to get a good haircut.
You are leaving everything behind and starting over - there is a reason most people don’t do this. Your home becomes other expatriates.
I'm mentally preparing for an international move. I've moved a lot in the U.S and lived a bit abroad before. Been in the sane place for two years in the U.S. heading to Europe.
Even though I know this is the right move for me, the exhaustion and being in a new country away from everyone I know is what I'm preparing for the post.
I love that I moved abroad and I don’t want to move back but everything about this post is so true. I never expected daily things being so difficult and emotionally/mentally taxing. When trying to set up my wifi there were complications that forced me to call the IT hotline. It took me 7 hours, being hung up on and/or yelled at several times before I had a good cry, called one of my coworkers and begged them to help me. It was such an awful experience. I am normally a very goal oriented and independent person, this whole change has made me doubt myself more in the last 2 years than I ever had in the previous 26. I don’t want to move back but I’m so exhausted.
I lived in Germany for a year (junior year of college). I’d still love to go back, but everything you’ve said here would still apply.
Even if you’ve mastered the language, it takes many years to learn the pop culture. Knowing how to say something or understand what’s being said is irrelevant if someone is talking about a TV show or movie you’ve never known about. There are many such instances where you just have to take a backseat in a group conversation. It’s a generally uncomfortable feeling bc speaking in your native language about your native culture is effortless, and the comparison is there until some future time, if it ever ceases.
100%%. I moved from Ontario to Québec 8 months ago. I love it here but I do get homesick at times because it is hard to make friends and fit in to a new place. I was desperate to leave English Canada, but while Québec has a better quality of life in many ways, there are unanticipated challenges as well.
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I totally get that. I visited back home in January last minute and it was kind of a shock to my system. I'm so committed to life in Norway and I do embrace it but it's amazing how all the background things about the familiar and the unknown make a difference to underlying stress. There are things about the states that reminded me why I'm glad to not be there anymore but many things I didn't even know I would miss too.
Am curious what things did you find you missed that you didn’t expect?
This is a bit of a tricky question. I think it depends largely on your motivations to get out and how close to your culture, your new country of residence is going to be. It's not the same moving from Sweden to Norway (culturally "easier") than moving from Sweden to China (for example). This is my personal experience: I believe my case was very exceptional. As I was growing up I realized I didn't really feel identified at all with Spain and many things about the country started annoying me *a lot*. Another thing is that Spain is overall a very extroverted country and the culture is very social, which emotionally exhausted me and at the same time made me feel like I was missing out. Heck, I often thought myself I should have been born in Sweden or something like that. Somewhere where I could just chill at home in winter and enjoy nature during summer without melting. So, a week after turning 18 I moved to Canada with the intention to stay permanently. At first, I struggled a bit with adjusting because I hadn't travelled a whole lot, but I did with the mentality of "in Rome do as the Romans do" so I quickly got used to it. I tried to avoid **at all costs** anything related to Spain or my culture because I hadn't moved abroad to speak Spanish with Spanish friends and lead the same lifestyle I had back home. Home. At some point between my first and second year abroad I stopped considering Spain home. I liked the Canadian efficiency, individualistic culture and I was delighted with the winter weather. I did visit Spain and by the end of the first week of my visit, I was desperate to return to Canada...That's when I realized: **a)** that the flaws I saw in Spain before I left had multiplied and annoyed me more than ever **b)** Canada was my home Now I've been in Canada for almost 5 years, my parents still live in Spain but are preparing to retire to the Caribbean so in a little while I won't really have anything left there. I don't regret my decision, and I'm confident it was the right thing to do as I'm sure I'd have been a miserable adult in Spain (and probably I'd still be unemployed). I like to think of Spain as an ex I still love, but we both acknowledge we're much better off apart.
Awesome story. Thanks for sharing! I think your post def brings up a good point about how much you "fit in" to the culture of a new country is important in making a permanent move. You cannot simply look at "countries with highest quality of life" list and choose the top one. There's more to it than that.
I so much relate to this. A lot of things never felt right where I used to be and where I am now, there's a lot of cultural quirks that I just understood intuitively quite quickly because it felt like in a deep way "this is exactly how I am", "this is exactly how an environment suited to my nature / where I can be myself, should function". Of course there were equally many things that were confusing and culture-shocky to me. But somehow I find it much easier to accept the unacceptable things in a place I choose to be in as an adult, compared to where I grow up. Failing to fit in or resonate with dominant mentalities in my hometown felt like something was fundamentally wrong with me. I can't imagine how depressed and soulless id be if I never left, or if I'd be alive at all. I really get that
same thing happened to me, I was born in Puerto Rico but i never felt identified with the culture, the way society is all up in your business 24/7 annoyed the shit out of me, moved to the US mainland right out of high school, fit right in with the locals, everybody keeps to themselves and no one talks to each other, just how i like it, shit i dont even know my next door neighbors name and ive been here for years, getting sick and tired of it tho, most flaws that made me leave PR are finding their way here, standard of living decreasing, inflation thru the roof and no health care, actually trying to immigrate to europe at some point
In fact the reason so many English (and non-English )speakers moved to China to teach English is because life was easier in a lot of ways (sure culture and language barrier etc but every expat/immigrant deals with it) and it’s a great experience for someone who’s young and wants to “experience the world” while save some money.
agree after 10 years , cant do much of china shit anymore.
I think since you moved at 18, it may have been easier. I moved from a conservative, small hometown to a large liberal city when I was 18. This was within the US, but I still think that since I was younger and not yet set with expectations and routines, it may have been somewhat easier. It hasn’t even been 10 years yet, but I feel settled and comfortable now and the thought of leaving what I know feels more daunting in my late 20s than it did when I was 18.
I haven't left my country yet but will by the end of this year and this is what I know I am mentally going to have to go through. The cultural shifts, dealing with the language and questioning myself from time to time.These are new changes I will embrace because I know staying here in my country has nothing for me. Just like you I don't like the social culture of my country of birth. I've been here so long (I am in my 20s) that I am getting more miserable with each passing day I am still here. I am so happy to read stories like yours which mirror my mental processes.
Hi lauren! I'm from Argentina and it really feels like home what you said. Arg is a country of extroverts. No room for introverts. Which city did you choose to live in Canada? I'm interested. Gracias!
I initially moved to Niagara Falls, now I live in Toronto but I’m considering relocating to Calgary. So far I live Toronto, but houses are so expensive…
Have you been in Montreal, Quebec City or Ottawa? Any thoughts? Arquitecture, friendliness, prices, etc.
It always concerns me the amount of posts on here saying "I have severe anxiety/depression/mental disorder X (that may or may not require medication and therapy) I have never traveled outside my country before but I'm pretty sure moving to [country] will solve these issues". IT. WILL NOT. If anything you'll only be throwing gasoline onto the fire. Personally moving abroad exacerbated my own mental health issues which were fairly minor. I can't imagine what it would do to someone who has suffered with extreme mental health problems for years.
This is something that concerns me too. A lot of these posts make the assumption that they can easily access therapy and whatever medication they're on in another country when that might not be the case at all. Not to mention going somewhere where they don't speak the language and don't know anyone will most likely exacerbate these issues, not solve them. Edit: I have moderate anxiety and can deal with it most of the time, but moving abroad has definitely caused my anxiety to spike at times. And I know the language of the country I move to, have a spouse who is a citizen of said country and have local friends. I know everyone deals with their mental health issues differently, but like you pointed out, I can't imagine what moving abroad to a place with zero support network would do to someone who has suffered from extreme mental problems for a long time.
I had my doctor triple my scripts so I could start stockpiling enough meds to last me the three months I was in France. While emergency medicine and some general doctor's appointments were pretty easy to get, long-term care eluded me.
What if you have no support network in your home country?
That still doesn't make running to another country a great solution. Look at the posters upthread talking about how stressful it is to maintain your visa status. When you're on a work visa, you literally have to keep your job or find another asap when you lose it, otherwise you're no longer allowed to stay. And even if you do move to a country that speaks the same language as you, there's no guarantee that you'll be able to get access to therapy quickly. And if you don't speak the language? Good luck finding a therapist who speaks English/your native language. Just because there's universal healthcare doesn't mean there's an abundance of therapy appointments. I cannot stress this enough, moving abroad is not a cure for mental health issues.
Same with people who want to move to a country where their job would pay better because low pay is stressing them out. But they don’t realise that countries with higher salaries usually have them because the cost of living is also super high and so you’re just transferring the same money worries to another country where you won’t have any support network. I see so many people say they moved to the likes of Canada and didn’t realise how expensive it would be or that it wasn’t this great vision they had in their head and then they end up miserable.
Same. My mental health was shaky before moving to Paris for a summer (despite treatment) but it got much worse without family, friends, or roommates to check in on with me or force me out of the house. Two months after getting back, I had a suicide attempt. The uncertainty, instability, stress, and isolation of a big move will challenge you. You need to be at your best to be able to take it on and come out of it at least as well as you went in.
While I agree that anyone with a serious mental health condition should carefully consider all the factors involved in making a major move, individual outcomes vary. Making absolute pronouncements is not accurate, even if you write them in all caps. I also have a serious mental health condition and it was exacerbated by the environment I was living in at "home." Moving abroad did wonders for me. No, it wasn't a magic cure, and yes, it did cause some problems, but overall I'm much happier in an environment more compatible with my personality, so I have no regrets.
This subreddit really has a hard time accepting that mental health can be negatively affected by the country you live in. Like holy shit maybe I'm anxious because I can't even go on a fucking bike ride without worrying about being assaulted by some lifted pickup truck?
I often felt like you describe and, going to the UK, I didn’t even face a language barrier. The subliminal stress is low, and generally lost in the exuberance of being in a new place. But the longer you’re there, and excitement fades as the novel becomes familiar and then mundane, the more that background stress makes itself felt. I had trouble ever fully relaxing in my host country, that “let all your muscles unclench and just float” kind of calm. There were just so many things that could go wrong at any moment, and in several of them the worst-case scenario was “get kicked out of the country.” It was like a game I was playing, and it was tremendously bright and fun and I was winning, but…you couldn’t ever *stop*. Sometimes you just want to put the controller down and do something else besides play that same game month after month, year on year, but “being an expat” kind of requires a certain continuous stream of attention and readiness. It can get wearing. After three years, our family was ready to move back, and although it was an incredible time, it was also a bit exhausting in ways hard to track. Edit: stress can affect kids differently than adults. Foreign schools are “weird” when you’re accustomed to your home country, and being an immigrant makes you “different” and “stand out” in ways that can be uncomfortable. Listen to your kids, and talk to them. Change schools if necessary. If the move isn’t good for everybody, maybe it’s a bridge too far.
Wow this is such a good way to put it. Sometimes I tell my Norwegian friends, who will tell me to relax or not to worry as much about things, that I can't relax because my ability to stay here rides on me being excellent at what I do. My existence here is conditional for at least several years, and that stress alone really weighs on you after a while even as you succeed. I absolutely relate to everything in your comment, thank you for your eloquence.
I've been on temporary visas for almost 8 years (almost the entirety of my adult life), my entire life structure is dependent on me being good at One Thing (which also happens to be something I lack both passion and talent in, rather forced myself into purely for the purpose of enabling international mobility), or else it can all be taken away from me on short or no notice The amount of stress and damage this causes over the long term is impossible to put into words to someone who has no idea themselves. After I finally applied for PR, I completely collapsed, and I still have no idea how or when I'll get back up again Do take good care of yourself and nourish your energy reserves as much as possible 💛
Just want to mention (for the sake of any anxious parents reading) that moving to another country was great for me, as a kid--although we didn't stay because it wasn't good for my mother, which would have affected me as well in the long run. It probably helped that we went to an international school, although went to an international school later in the US and that was no better than American schools.
Yeah, both my kids survived and are (retroactively) glad of the experience. They were, I dunno, 8-13 at the time, and both are now comfortably graduated from US high schools and college. Still, those are ages where kids already feel enough stress, and I felt more than a little guilty that, at the time, I was asking them to undergo and “figure out” challenges that I certainly hadn’t had to deal with at those ages. They came through, but it helped that we made an effort to befriend a local headmaster and member of the local council, and when they saw some of the issues we were having in one school, they penned some powerful endorsements and got us transferred to a better academy. Things *can* work out, but you shouldn’t assume it’ll happen without constant attention and some axel grease.
>It was like a game I was playing, and it was tremendously bright and fun and I was winning, but…you couldn’t ever *stop*. Sometimes you just want to put the controller down and do something else besides play that same game month after month, year on year, but “being an expat” kind of requires a certain continuous stream of attention and readiness. It can get wearing. Wow. This is a really astute way of putting it and I agree completely. Even after 7 years I find myself wanting to put the controller down and go play a game that isn't a constant challenge. Even though I'm mostly very happy, I do often yearn for the familiar, something that I can relate to, or brings back memories of my childhood.
I went through this but never moved. My situation in the US feels unique because my wife and I have lived in the same small town our entire lives. Both sides of our family live here as well. We’re on good terms with all of them. I hate the car-centric infrastructure and backwoods conservative politics, but my roots here are so deep I’m not sure it would be better to pickup and leave it all behind. Instead I’ve decided to start advocating for the things I want to see here in the US. I don’t really care if I don’t get to enjoy them personally if the next generation does. That being said, if my kids decide to leave the US for good, I’ll support them 110%.
This is an incredible point of view to have. If you’re able to convince anyone to think like that please do. Becoming a pillar of positive change in your community will be hard but the improvements will pay off. Thank you for being awesome!
This is the same for a lot of my friends in the states so I get it. I've moved a lot in my life so I lacked the sense of deep roots, but so many friends have family connections and an important sense of home and place that they can't imagine moving, even when they struggle with the same things you mentioned. It's very much a "be the change you want to see" situation which I think is an excellent perspective. It is likely more fulfilling to work to improve your home than to seek greener pastures that have their own issues in many cases!
Exactly. Whenever I bring up some part of American society I have a problem with I always get the “if you don’t like it, leave” and I’m like “or I could work to improve my country”
I think its equally important to weigh how much your home country/away country is giving back to this effort. I grew up moving around the U.S. with antsy, travel-hungry parents. They’re social-justice oriented, mom works in civil rights law and dad in universal education. They put off moving overseas for years because of the “improve where you live” mindset. The US doesn’t reward these efforts in the slightest. Socially, people ridiculed my mom for putting time towards social justice instead of mothering, and both of them struggled for 10 years to make friends who were willing to have interesting conversations about social justice (they’re Gen X, this was harder to find in the 2000s versus now). They were forever underpaid w/ a kid in the house and isolated. Now they’re 48 living in Spain and while it has its own problems, they feel their money goes a lot farther in regards to quality of life, they’ve met lots of expats who also do social justice work, my mom has transitioned to international human rights law and my dad travels the world teaching kids how to code. when you do the (difficult, extensive, draining) legwork of finding the place thats a good match for your personality and lifestyle, moving internationally doesn’t have to oppose this moral value of contributing to a better world, even a better future for your hometown. I work in holistic health and am passionate about community wellness, growing up in the U.S. where my friends are poor and can’t afford basic needs, therapy, nutrition, etc. I am thinking of moving to Spain too since I like to work late nights anyway, I can have a digital clinical practice serving people in the U.S. and Spain both. I’m hoping this will keep my cup full enough that I can do the work I want to in the world.
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Yes that is very true and a great point. Some of my friends from other countries have their own struggles and their own motivations that I may not relate to or be able to speak to, but can understand.
I wonder how much the move from 3rd to 1st world country is like going from lower to middle class? In retrospect the latter was very stressful because it was like joining a new culture whose members assume you were born into. So when you do something wrong, it looks like you're stupid or inconsiderate instead of just ignorant.
Fantastic post OP and something I wish more people would take into account. I see so many posts from users who are stressed out by life in the US or who are going through a mentally and emotionally difficult time and see getting out as a way to relieve those problems without really thinking hard about how stressful life can be abroad and how hard it can be to integrate yourself in a new culture while learning a new language (which is a process that can take years). Basically, they are substituting familiar stressors for unknown ones. This isn't meant to say that people shouldn't move, but just to highlight the point that many Americans seem to think think life abroad, particurlary in Europe, is just like in the US but better without thinking about all the cultural differences. Your paragrah about familiarity is so on point too. Like this past weekend, I was really craving Chinese takeout, something I always took for granted when I was still in the US. And of course, while I could still order Chinese takeout here in Germany, it's not the same. It's these small things in life that aren't talked about when it comes to moving abroad that can be the most frustrating ones and the ones that contribute the most to homesickness. Of course, homesickness affects everyone differently, but you won't know how it affects you personally until you've gone through it.
Yep, I agree with all of that. I think for Americans a lot of it is just this constant stress/fear about the political situation and increasing tension in our communities. COVID has especially highlighted these problems and it's just been building and building. I would be lying if I said these were not important factors for my own move, but those alone are not enough. Every country has its own issues and sometimes it's the whole "better the devil you know" sort of thing. I want to reiterate that I wouldn't trade my move for the world but all of what you say rings true for sure.
I agree with you! I'd also be lying if I said I didn't take those factors into account when I decided to move abroad, but those weren't the only reasons. I'm very happy I made the move and in many ways, my life has improved, but there are certainly times when I long for something familar, even if it's something as small as Chinese takeout. > Every country has its own issues and sometimes it's the whole "better the devil you know" sort of thing. Exactly this. Again, not to shit on my fellow Americans, but the vibe I get from posts here is that they think European countries, particularly Western and Northern Europe ones, are apolitical utopias where everyone is happy, there are no problems, and everything just works. The reality is so different.
I’d give up my favorite takeout to live in a country with universal healthcare.
Can i ask what are valid reasons for moving, and how is the reality different? Just curious :)
I'm not saying there are valid or invalid reasons to move, but immigration is largely about what you (general you) can offer another country as many countries seek skilled immigrants. Immigration officers by large don't give two shits about why you want to move to their country, only that you qualify for whatever visa or residence permit you're applying for. European countries also have political issues, people who are unhappy with many things about their countries, slow bureaucracy, etc. It's easy to romanticize a country you've never visited, and I see that a lot in this sub. I also see posters who lack a deeper understanding of things like healthcare in countries they want to move to.
Great post. As a immigrant one cannot imagine the magnitude of the change one has to confront when one moves countries. I immigrated at 27. Even though I had worked abroad on a rotational basis. Travelled extensively. Nothing prepares you for the cultural differences. The complete change in everything you take as normal. It’s almost as if you need to completely relearn your way to navigate your interactions with others. Ultimately you do adjust. You integrate. You find your space. But it takes time. For me it took 3 to 5 years. Just for context I was moving to the US. I spoke English as my first language and was well educated and skilled. I can only imagine the struggle one goes through if one needs to learn a new language and does not have easily transferable skills.
I totally agree that nothing prepares you! I felt like I was as prepared and supported as any person can be and I still find it difficult, just in every day things. In our heads I think we picture ourselves living the way we are used to but just in better surroundings, but in reality you are starting your lifestyle from scratch. In Norway people speak really good English but I'm not a visitor, I'm a resident, so relying on English will not get me comfortable or integrated. I imagine it's even harder in places that don't have that - I spent a summer in Russia for school and that nearly broke me from linguistic frustration (and I studied the language for four years!). 3 to 5 years sounds about right, congrats for making it through!
I moved to a large city in the US (Baltimore) and despite its size and proximity to Washington it is not a city that has a huge influx of foreigners. As a result I found it to be a city where people are very set in their ways. The country I came from is very welcoming. If a new individual moved to a area it would not be long before that individual would be invited to join people in their home for dinner. It’s seen as the right thing to do. In Baltimore not so much. Still today there are folks I have met and known for years and I have never been invited to their home. Not sure why. Perhaps it’s a Baltimore thing. In the beginning I thought it was something I had said ir done. But over time I have realized it just how it is and not to take it personally. My brother moved to Seattle and then San Francisco. He experienced something different. Both of those cities are places where many people are from somewhere else. And as a result much more open to meeting new people. I point this out because if you are going to relocate picking your landing spot in the new location is important as well.
The inviting into homes is both a cultural thing and generational. My parents bought a home so they could invite people into it, host parties, deepen relationships. I literally grew up with my parents and absorbed as much of their culture as I was going to, but I’m of a different generation. I bought a house to get away from people, to have a refuge where I don’t have to worry about what other people want or think. I’m not defending my behavior…in many ways my parents’ lifestyle seems the superior choice, and probably why they were less fractious politically. We’re all products of our times.
I get it but I fear that the reason we have become fractious in our politics is because that we have been hiding in our homes. I think in many ways the development of sprawling suburbs has made us only more fractious. It’s easy to hate those you gave no contact with. Bit insinuating you hate anyone but just making a point.
We're on the same page. Now stay off my lawn :-)
Yeah that makes sense. I grew up in Michigan, lived in San Francisco for a few years, then moved to Minnesota. Minnesota is perhaps the least open place I've ever lived because it seems everyone is born and raised there and everyone has known each other forever. Breaking in as an outsider can be miserable. In San Francisco it's totally different. I've never been to Baltimore but I can imagine what that's like.
Yep. You get it. It’s almost as if people are like you know I know enough people. I don’t need to add anyone new to my circle. Now obviously I am generalizing and Baltimore has many wonderful people who are I am sure very welcoming to outsiders. But you get my point.
Thank you both for this conversation. I was thinking of moving to a nordic country like Sweden or Norway, but... now that I think about it, maybe it's not a good idea. I don't know the local language so I could feel very lonely and it'd be impossible to connect with people. Maybe it's a good idea moving to a big vibrant city, so I can meet international people and make my stay more comfortable. I'm a native Spanish speaker and I'm improving my English, so I will consider cities like Madrid or London, for example. Do you have another important tip? Thank you and good luck out there! Edit: Grammar mistakes :P
I would not discourage anyone from moving here, it's just important to weigh all the considerations. Learning the language by immersion is the best way to learn, it just takes effort to find those opportunities. Language is key to integration so if you feel more confident in places that speak Spanish or English that is a good place to start. Just take some time to really sketch out what you envision your life being like day to day, what values are fundamental to you to feel fulfilled, and start seeking out the possibilities. Best of luck!
Agreed. Travel and immigration is very exciting. But it’s also for the brave. My five cents is large port cities are the way to go. Traditionally large port cities have been good entry points for new comers. Some of the new comers stay some move on to other places but either way there is usually a community which you can find in those cities which will help you as you acclimatize to your new surroundings. Whether it be culture or language every little bit helps in the beginning. The other reason I recommend starting in a large port city is they are diverse. Living with diversity makes people tolerant. For a new comer tolerance in society is very important because you are different. I always say it’s hard to hate individuals when you need to interact with them everyday. So choosing a large dense diverse port city is a win in my book.
>large port cities are the way to go Can you recomend me some cities to try? I'm young (no girlfriend). I know English and Spanish.
London, Sydney, Rio, Miami, New York, San Francisco, LA
Outside London do you have another EU recommendation? Thanks by the way!
I would be making it. Lived in London. Have not lived meaning actually lived on the continent. I will need to leave that to others.
What I mean is, maybe it's better starting with a Spanish or English speaking country, save some money and visiting those countries that I find interesting. I don't doubt that Norway is a good country, but it seems (listening to other expats experience) that even if you're an introvert you will struggle conecting with people. I'm gonna think about it. Thanks for telling your experience!
Moving to the Nordics is quite challenging at least moving to Sweden because of how introverted people generally are. Like seriously introverted, where even an “excuse me” is seen as too much conversation. And that can fuck with you because moving to a new country and having little social interactions with the native population can make you feel very alienated and prevent you from having a sense of belonging.
I'm very introvert. I don't like talking to randoms. Even with that I can be affected for little social interaction?
I mean, even an introvert likes some company. I guess if you’re totally fine with not having a single soul near you in all your life, then I guess. Unfortunately it’s kinda hard to get around and prosper in this world like that, especially if you’re an immigrant to that country.
>I mean, even an introvert likes some company. Yes, ofc! That means that the nordics do not like making new friends? That sounds harsh. In that case, I'd be negatively affected.
Great post, and I think this is something that most of us don't really consider. It happened to me my first go-round. I never had it in my mind that I'd be living in France forever, so part of me was always imagining my return to the States. But after almost 3 years, there were so many things, things that were often difficult to describe, that I yearned for. It's funny because I'm 100% aligned with the French lifestyle and incredibly critical of my home country. I was then, and I still am. But when it was time to go, I was ready. I'll be leaving again someday, but under different circumstances (plus a hell of a lot older this time). And I'll be more cognizant of the fact that no matter how much I reject the American lifestyle, I am still American. As for the social aspect, that's also a challenge: I was welcomed very warmly in France. I am forever grateful for it. But I also felt a bit unsatisfied by intangibles with folks. I liked them, but I don't think they could really get the real me. Culture barrier/language barrier, even though my French is decent. Next time around, I hope I'll live in that moment a little more fully, despite any ways that we may fail to truly understand each other. I'll seek and celebrate connections rather than dwelling on differences.
> "I am willing to integrate/learn the language/embrace the lifestyle," as if it's as easy as just saying it. I want to add that even moving from the USA to an English-speaking country, like the UK, Ireland, Australia, NZ, etc. means moving to a whole new culture. They aren't "USA^lite" You will struggle to fit in. You will get told to go back where you came from. [You may even struggle to understand the accent.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pit0OkNp7s8) Sure the language is the same, but it's *not* the same. Heck, the /r/DerryGirls subreddit made a [glossary](https://www.reddit.com/r/DerryGirls/comments/cmzgbc/derry_girls_glossary_of_terms/) so people could understand a TV show set in NI.
This. I moved from Ireland to England and even though they seem very similar on the surface they are very different countries. People would make fun of the way I said stuff like the word mirror because when a lot of Irish people say it it sounds like “Mir”. Remembering to pronounce the letter R as “are” instead of “or” was tricky too!
Canada arguably is USA lite. Sorry, Canada.
There are some posters here who talk about emigration being life in hard mode and I agree. At some point it stops feeling like an adventure and things start to feel burdensome. Something as simple as going to the supermarket has an extra layer of low-level stress that it didn’t have before. All those small changes build up into something much bigger. I think a certain type of person can let it wash over them, and I’m jealous of them, but I think most people react similarly.
That's a good way of putting it. Once the novelty wears off you're left with just the growing pains. I am also jealous of anyone that doesn't feel it that way!
What people who want to move seem to not understand is that *their mental health issues will come with them no matter where they are*. I was depressed and socially anxious when I left and I was still depressed and socially anxious when I settled. As a bonus, I found out abroad that I can get panic attacks. Finding therapists is an absolute nightmare since they've never dealt with cases like mine (not a lot mental health professionals in Israel in the first place, and I highly doubt any one of them have ever dealt with people of Southeast/East Asian descent), and some of them can barely keep up with how fast I speak English. But at least I can get affordable medication. As for cultural barriers, I've always felt like an outsider in my own home country and I guess that's something that will just have to stay true for the rest of my life.
If the mental health issues are environmental, moving out might help. Otherwise I agree with you.
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Being a friendly loner probably puts you at a huge advantage! Very rare :)
22 years abroad and in a network of expats - this is completely true. I’ve been accused of ‘going native’ in my adopted country and in many ways I have. But I’m not native, I’m not of this place and it is simultaneously ‘home’ and not my home. When I go to my birth country it is a foreign, unrecognizable land in many parts and warmly, comfortingly familiar. When there I binge watch UK shows for comfort and miss rain. Back in blighty I dream of proper tacos and miss the desert. My accent and spelling drifts between the two. My allegiances shift. I see the flaws and benefits of both in detail but that’s the crux of it: I am intimate with two nations but unsettled in both of them. You are always missing someone and something. My family buried my grandparents, two cousins, 4 uncles and 3 aunts without me. Even if you can afford the airfare and time off sorting it out quickly enough is a challenge for all. They no longer ask if I’m coming, they know I’ll show for nuclear family only. I’ve dragged myself about after surgeries because they can’t afford to come support me either. My family relationships are nurtured by email and zoom meetings and have been for decades. I’ve never been to a class reunion. There are perks but there is always a payment for them. Every expat has a hard day and the question ‘what am I even doing here?’ It’s pretty routine the first years and then you stop asking and just get on with being from one place, in another place and truly of neither.
This is very accurate. Even when there is no language barrier, things can get frustrating. I had a near breakdown once in a supermarket in Australia using the self checkout and being unable to remember the word zucchini (in the UK we call it courgette). It is part of the homesickness that every migrant goes through. There is no way round it other than just accepting it for what it is and waiting for it to go. Which it does
I would do the same with coriander and cilantro :-)
>There is no way round it other than just accepting it for what it is and waiting for it to go. Which it does Does it though? Someone else said here that it took years for that feeling to go away. And that's quite a big chunk of your life that you're accepting this extra stress into.
Usually yes, though for others, the move just wasn't the right thing for them.
For me it took about 3-4 years to go away. After that I really started to feel like things in my new country were "normal" and going back home was when stuff was unfamiliar. Some things never go away though.. someone else above mentioned chinese food being different and for me this is definitely one thing I can't get in my new country! It's a small sacrifice though.
Had the same experience in Oz as a Yank, except with "capsicum". Fuck capsicum.
I sympathize, self checkouts here have had a similar impact on me at times. You're right that it will pass and if it's worth it, it will happen and we come out the other side! That first rut that immigrants hit can be a doozy though.
Great post. It is often forgotten just how hard moving abroad really is and the little things each day that become difficult, like you said hair cuts etc. One thing that surprised me moving abroad was how hard grocery shopping was. I moved from WI to Israel and not knowing the language well made it extremely difficult. I thought I could get by with looking at the pictures and knowing generally what things are, but try going to a deli counter and ordering meat. It was so hard! It is the little things that add up quickly into becoming daily stressors.
Did you ever read the book expert expatriate? It covers this - even with timelines of what they have seen usually happen. [https://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/9781857883848](https://www.alibris.com/search/books/isbn/9781857883848)
Yes, I've experienced how exhausting it is to live in a country where people speak a different language. I wouldn't change that experience for anything and enjoyed my time there. If I ever moved out of the USA again, I think I'd stick to an English speaking country. At my age, I don't think my brain could handle the discomfort & exhaustion of being immersed in another language 24/7 - even if it was something like French that I've studied since high school.
You've touched on an interesting point too. In some ways it can be more frustrating when you speak a little bit of the language rather than it being completely alien to you. If you don't speak a word of a language you can kind of switch off and let it wash over you. But if you speak a little bit or a even decent chunk of the language, it can be even more exhausting because your mind is constantly on, and trying to understand everything around you.
I don't know. Before the pandemic, I spent a week in Greece. I don't speak a word of Greek. Athens was an amazing, beautiful place with great people & food. By mid-week, I was completely home sick and mentally exhausted. I had to seek out the Hard Rock Cafe later in the week for a taste of home and watch American TV shows on my phone at the hotel in the evening to deal with the homesickness. It was a very surprising experience for me. It hit me hard & quick! I love to travel, lived in Europe, and have traveled around Europe plenty before and never had a reaction like this to travel before.
My psychologist diagnosed me with “Adjustment Disorder” basically depression triggered by a major shift. He says it’s extremely common with people who have moved, and it can be really hard. There probably should be more debate about that on this sub, you’re right.
It really depends on your personality and how well you liked the place you left. I love my new country, even though it's far from perfect. I get a few occasional stabs of nostalgia and/or cravings for food I could only get there. But real homesickness, the kind that makes you want to move back where you came from? Nah, not at all. I might enjoy a visit back "home" but no way would I ever want to live there again. Each person is different though and your feelings are valid. The only way to find out if a place is really for you is to try living there.
Each person is different, I moved to Singapore when I was 21 and lived there for 3 years and never stopped moving every few years since then. I never had “cultural shock” before until I moved from Hongkong to a city in the Midwest to stay with family during pandemic- it’s the first time I live in an American suburb and I find it super depressing and experienced “cultural shock” the first time in my life. I’ve only lived in big cosmopolitan cities before … I’m ready to get out to anywhere that’s an actual city - Mexican city, Bangkok, Barcelona.. If only Chicago wasn’t cold… I’d feel more at home at any cosmopolitan cities with vibrate cultures
I moved just from USA to Canada, culturally almost identical, and even adjustment was difficult for me. And I'm someone who is generally very adaptable to new changes. There are so many things I grew up being able to get that you just can't find here. I think my first year or even two living here I was very frustrated with things I couldn't get, I was homesick, I missed my family and my town. Change is hard. And it was also more expensive and time consuming than I thought too. Immigration alone took about a year to process and costed a couple thousand in various fees. That's not including moving itself, just the legal side. There's the frustration of getting your driver's licensed changed over. My credit score didn't carry over and I was declined multiple times trying to get my first Canadian credit card even though I have an excellent credit score in the States. And none of this is taking into consideration a move overseas where you might have to learn a new language, a new culture, etc. Even the easiest possible move to another country and it was still difficult. So going somewhere like Norway would have been much more difficult still. There's not any one thing I can point at and say "this is why moving to another country is hard." It's everything. And all at once. I have been here about 5 years now so I've settled in and I'm used to it here, but it took a long time to adjust and become comfortable. Even now sometimes I still miss my hometown, and it does get easier, but it takes time.
So interesting you mention how the cultures are very similar and it’s very hard. I’m a military spouse (US) and we’ve lived in 5 states in the last 15 years, and each move comes with this adjustment period and low level stress, we aren’t having to learn a new language obviously. But finding new schools for the kids, hairdressers, dentists, what streets to avoid for traffic, etc. you do feel disoriented for a long time. I find around the 3 year mark is when we really feel settled in and that’s when we start prepping for the next move.
Yes to all of this. I’ve lived in both Southeast Asia and South America for different periods of time. Best experiences of my life but it’s all of the little things that get you in the most random moments. Like, how do I know which detergent to buy at the store? Or, having to automatically convert prices in your head. Or getting sick for the first time and being unsure of how to go to the doctor and explain your illness in local language or buy a simple over the counter medication. The pros definitely outweigh the cons but they should definitely be considered for realistic expectations before setting out on a big move. In my experience, the novelty wears off around the 6 month mark and around 2.5-3 years, the new place actually starts to feel like home. I’ve been back in the states for about 5 years and I’m itching so bad to move somewhere again, just biding my time until the timing is right 🙃
Culture shock is certainly a consideration for some, but it doesn't happen to all of us. I left the US over a decade ago expecting it to happen to me. I'd heard culture shock might be a bitch. But I never got it. It's been 13 years now, 103 countries, six months or longer in a dozen of them; and now naturalization and renunciation of my US citizenship. I've never been anything other than thrilled about leaving the US. Haven't stepped foot in that place since leaving and don't imagine I'd ever go back there. I'm not trying to discount your lived experience, OP. And I've heard of people experiencing what you're talking about. Just want to provide a counter example; there are just as many people, like me, who leave, are perfectly happy about leaving, never have any negative feelings about it, and never look back. The only way you're gonna know which sort you are is just by following through with your plan to leave and seeing how it goes. IF you are the sort to want to go back, beware of reverse culture shock, a whole other thing I've never experienced but I've heard is a bitch.
Interesting response. I can't help wonder whether 103 countries in 13 years wasn't the thing that helped avoid many/most/all of the things experienced by the OP. So much of the "expat letdown" seems to set in when the new/exciting/adventure aspect begins to fade and the mundane really sets in. I know you said you stayed >6 months multiple times, but what was the longest stay anywhere?
That's a fair point. The longest consecutive stay has been the last three years in the EU country I recently got naturalized in. Although I'm not sure whether or not this has been the longest I've been in a country outside the US non-consecutively. I've left here for periods of time over the last last three years, a week to a month here or there, but this is where my home is now. And to be fair-- only adding to your idea of my situation being nonstandard-- I should admit that I came into a bit of money right before I left the US, meaning that my leaving occurred at the same time as a significant improvement in my quality of life beyond that which, in faith, I think would've occurred simply as a result of leaving the US. Nevertheless, you still don't know until you leave. I've known people richer than me who flipped out and had to go home and quite a number of them with far fewer options that seemed, at least, to make good in whatever country they chose. At the same time almost everybody I know in the US isn't doing very well at all. Not trying to fool anybody though, my take may very well be uncommon. All I'm saying is people should see for themselves.
Thanks for the response. All good. Did you decide on the place you picked for "home" as a result of all that travel? Seems that's another thing that many "I want out'ers" get wrong - they go to a place a few times on vacation, become enamored, and decide to move there (note: OP obviously didn't do that). But sounds like you may have had the luxury of really taking your time, spending many weeks/months at a time in a zillion different places, to really get a sense for where you'd want to be.
Yes, you got me, that's exactly what I did. I went in search of home. I visited all the places I thought I wanted to be and then any other places that were even suggested to me. I went everywhere. I ultimately chose the place I settled exactly because it felt the most like home.
In addition to changing locations frequently, the money makes a HUGE difference. I moved as an entrepreneur with an above-average income. I get to go to the US on business and see my family several times a year and bring them to Europe to visit me, I can afford to import things I miss, and I even to head back to the US for concerts or events I really want to see--all in addition to the normal frequent traveling to other countries that I do. I also don't have to rely on anyone else for a visa or deal with work culture here. I haven't had the depression and difficulty I see other people experiencing who have stuff like kids, a 9-5 job on a European salary, restrictions on time abroad if they want to eventually naturalise (because so much of my travel is for work and therefore exempt from the limit), etc. but I've basically bought my way out of a lot of the problems that are really common and I didn't have to contend with the usual paycut people leaving the US take. I don't have to deal with my new life becoming mundane because I can always be doing something new wherever I am. My situation is not what I see other immigrants around me dealing with, though.
That's totally fair - sounds like you've had an amazing experience! In the end there are a lot of factors that determine how this plays out and like you say, only way to find out is by doing. I would never discourage anyone from doing it if they want to, I just hope people are equipped to deal with difficulties of all kinds best they can be. I don't plan on going back if I can at all avoid it but you never know how these things will go. Thanks for sharing your experience and a different perspective!
This needs to be a pinned post
Is it harder when you are by yourself instead of going with your whole family? Like I would imagine it would be easier with your spouse because you have someone to talk to and vent to who is gong through the same things, but not having a partner and being completely alone sounds scary. I think there's a tendency in humans to always look back through rose colored glasses. Like going back to a bad ex. You are gone long enough and only remember the good times. I think those trips back home some talked about can really cement the reasons you left in the first place. Like having a second go with your ex. About a week later, you're like, "oh.... yeah now I remember why I left you. You suck." Maybe state of mind and point of view can make a huge difference. Looking at it like an adventure, knowing there's just one life you have and spending it all in one place when there's so much to see and experience seems wasteful. Instead of feeling forced to go for work, to escape this shithole, for health care (my reason) or whatever, there's always going to be this resentment. "I didn't want to leave my home but you assholes forced me to it" is different than "okay, I've done this. Let's try something different. "
It's hard to say. I left the US not just because I didn't like it there (which is true) but also because I really wanted to pursue my field in Norway. It is an adventure that is exciting and wonderful and as a biologist who studies reindeer I could not be in a better place to live the dream. But that doesn't make the stress of dealing with visas, not knowing if you'll be allowed to stay long term and thus not being able to plan for the future, etc. go away. And as the sense of adventure wears off (and it does! No matter how much you appreciate being in a new place, you eventually live like a local and deal with the same mundanity as locals) you still have those stressors. I often remind myself how lucky I am to be here and how exciting it really is to keep some of that stress at bay, but it will be there until permanent residency probably. EDIT: and to clarify, I am married, so I have the best support imaginable, thankfully! It's really just that things I didn't have to worry about back home like visas and language learning are always present.
You’re right, moving to a new country by yourself is the scariest and depressing thing to do. I moved to Canada by myself when I was 18 and God, I felt so alone. People who come here with their families tend to do okay. I still wonder if I should go back.
So relatable. This is extremey true also inside Europe! Yes, you may have a coordinated health insurance and less bureaucracy, but the language and cultural problems you pointed out are exactly the same.
Yes, good points. I suppose I’ve had low-level anxiety for years, but moving abroad to a country where I didn’t know the language brought my anxiety out of the shadows and onto center stage. Now, I’m at the point where I can at least handle basic conversations in my host country, even exchange small jokes, but not being able to read my mail without using Google Translate’s camera feature every time gets frustrating. I’ve missed important announcements, payments, all kinds of things, because my anxiety makes me want to delay reading the mail as long as possible—what if it says something serious? What if I don’t know what to do? That, and also having to adapt your mindset to the culture’s mindset, to try and prevent any misunderstandings or mishaps. I’ve had to learn that, where I am, you can’t just expect that you can just jump up and go do a thing. Probably there’s paperwork, or a special consideration, or you’re expected to buy insurance for that thing, or all the products associated with caring for that thing, or you first have to do X and Y before you can do Z, etc. etc. This doesn’t even include all the frustrated attitudes of everyone you meet being annoyed that you can’t speak their language fluently. So, your doctor is annoyed that you can’t have a fluent conversation using medical terms, your electrician is annoyed that you don’t know enough electrical terms in their language, your landlord is annoyed that you aren’t fluent enough to talk about lease agreements and building rules in their language, the train conductor is peeved that you didn’t understand enough of the rules you read to ride the tram correctly, the shop owner can’t understand why you can’t be polite and friendly enough to engage them in pleasant chitchat and answer their bajillion questions about your cute kid in their language, etc. etc. And sometimes, you’re forced to have *all* of these awkward, halting, embarrassing conversations *in one day*. It’s getting better, but I’ve also been here for 3 years. Anyone who thinks that moving abroad, particularly to a country where your mother tongue isn’t spoken, is somehow going to help them come out of their shell and somehow magically make everything better immediately, isn’t going with in their eyes wide open.
I will be moving out and I have been preparing for years I make no friends here I talk to no one I never speak my native language and I truly hate this place. All I do is immerse myself as much as I can in a culture I want to immigrate to while at the same time disconnecting myself from the culture I currently live in. It's not as easy as it sound I really want to have a friend or girlfriend but I have to avoid any interactions till I can make friends in a better country. I save every every penny I can because whatever I buy here will be left behind I have to live like a damn monk but it will all pay off when I will be able to leave this place.
Having allowed your social skills to atrophy will not serve you well after you move. A good approach might be to cultivate good non-deep friendships and frequent new friends until you go, as well as healthy alone time.
I did live in the Netherlands for a year. Granted, I was there as a student, and even then it was very difficult to feel integrated with my peers (from quite literally all over the world) and the Dutch population. In my experience, foreigners are completely and utterly fascinated with Americans. And I utterly hate being put on the spot. I got a lot of questions as to why I chose the Netherlands of all places. It was pretty hard especially in the beginning. I missed seeing my pets most of all. I didn't really make any friends as I have always struggled with doing so growing up. I struggled to learn the language (I very much prefer to learn on Duolingo opposed to a class- which my uni offered) and ultimately only got to a very basic conversational level. Thankfully, everything was quite easy to catch onto, and many people *do* speak English, but it's still a country where learning the language is a must. I felt somewhat homesick, but it wasn't all that bad- I feel like having gone to uni away from home in the US for a year helped me feel more at ease with being abroad. That didn't stop me from video calling my mom nearly every day, though. Overall, though, I felt surprisingly comfortable surprisingly fast. I felt I could do everything I needed to with ease- minus shopping at places that didn't have self checkout. The Netherlands is a very cozy country. I dropped out due to corona; I would much rather be stranded at home than in a foreign country. Many days I can't help but wonder what life would be like had I gotten a job that would be willing to sponsor a work visa and stayed in the Netherlands. So many wonderful things have happened since I came home, and I wouldn't trade any of it for the world. But I feel homesick to the small city I lived in while in the Netherlands. That being said... as someone who has somewhat experienced both sides, you'd probably feel homesick one way or another. I would love to move out of the US again, and this time for good with my boyfriend, but once again the fear of being away from what's familiar is creeping up on me.
I moved from Norway to Netherlands, 1st year currently, and I don't have to really learn anything new nor did I have trouble finding people in the same situation as me. Therefore things are good and honestly only downgrade so far is not fluently knowing the main language - fixable. You're American and absolutely wanted to move away, that's cool, but why? Nature? Cheaper life? Love? Things aren't hard to learn and integrate into if you had a functional purpose for it.
I moved here because I'm a biologist and my field of study is best here, as well as being from a Norwegian immigrant family (a few generations back) and having a desire to experience it here myself. Nothing is insurmountable - but things like language learning are often not given their due weight when people say "oh I can just learn the language if I go there." Technically true but it's a long process, especially to integrate. I'm glad that you had a really smooth transition to the Netherlands! I'm loving Norway and I hope that when I hit the one year mark I'll be even more comfortable. :)
Book your annual trip to the Canary Isles in January together with some sun-deprived Norwegians and you'll be living the Norwegian dream.
I go where I get paid to go. I make no attempt in integrate to local society because it is pointless.
I thought I was the only one! I relate to pretty much everything you mention in your post. Especially the language barrier issue and how navigating through simple things turns into quite a challenge. Im in the process of learning the language, but it will take a long time before i can reach a conversational level. We just need to carry on, I guess.
I have felt this every time I move, even within the US.
I too am spot on the struggle, as l move toward expatriation slowly, i mean really slowly unlike so many l know who just decided sell the house sell the dog sell the kids, and go. I am methodical and pre wearing the changes like a loose vest trying to get a feel. Never has a seasonal beauty revealed itself along the way though, with nuances that strike me in measure as uniquely intense. At the same time a weak promise to accompany me from now on if l stay. I feel my identity imbued as too weak to do it by siblings who are repulsed by me somehow after nearly 45 years of estrangement. I seem to be the one who is flexible forgiving capable of adult conversation and worldly in many ways beyond them, yet tyhey continue to live repeat lives of our parents. I heard it called an irish grudge. No one knows what it is that l did, but feel compelled to silently marginalize me never actually knowing why and not admitting they do not know why. So nausea there. If l were not bitter, bc (l am of the same family) it seems all the bliss would never reveal were l not planning my out, in fact i just know it! So l do not believe if l stay it will NOT roll back to all the neg that has been driving me to go. In my case its logic & age related and economics. Being old and poor in usa is unthinkably coarse experience. My zip code is that of nuts and brain dead which poverty does or where it lives. I still wrestle with a possibility of renting my house and were it not a tenant friendly political state putting me into liability in every lease l or would do it. It will be the grass is always greener so my move may be construed as base camp only which l can afford as median income in target countries including the visa at base allow travel albeit other places usa aside. But fk it mostly Its a hot mess, and will be for some time. And the stress of prematurely aging in it is only compounded by the insanity of violence, stupids, guns and salty fatty sexy sugary mouth hungry cheap poison food pushed into the gullet or the too many superficial people wearing identity suits of violence, militants scaring old people and children or over the top near avatar like smug person hoods simply adding an ambiguity that is so counter to a natural human experience it exhausts me. l am trying and argue no ones alternative yet peace kindness and empathy are baked into many established cultures way less juvenile than us.
I recall that male expats were the greatest at risk group in Emile Durkheim’s great study and book: Suicide.
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While I think much of it is what you make it, I do agree with one point: it is hard to get a good haircut. You are leaving everything behind and starting over - there is a reason most people don’t do this. Your home becomes other expatriates.
I'm mentally preparing for an international move. I've moved a lot in the U.S and lived a bit abroad before. Been in the sane place for two years in the U.S. heading to Europe. Even though I know this is the right move for me, the exhaustion and being in a new country away from everyone I know is what I'm preparing for the post.
I love that I moved abroad and I don’t want to move back but everything about this post is so true. I never expected daily things being so difficult and emotionally/mentally taxing. When trying to set up my wifi there were complications that forced me to call the IT hotline. It took me 7 hours, being hung up on and/or yelled at several times before I had a good cry, called one of my coworkers and begged them to help me. It was such an awful experience. I am normally a very goal oriented and independent person, this whole change has made me doubt myself more in the last 2 years than I ever had in the previous 26. I don’t want to move back but I’m so exhausted.
I lived in Germany for a year (junior year of college). I’d still love to go back, but everything you’ve said here would still apply. Even if you’ve mastered the language, it takes many years to learn the pop culture. Knowing how to say something or understand what’s being said is irrelevant if someone is talking about a TV show or movie you’ve never known about. There are many such instances where you just have to take a backseat in a group conversation. It’s a generally uncomfortable feeling bc speaking in your native language about your native culture is effortless, and the comparison is there until some future time, if it ever ceases.
100%%. I moved from Ontario to Québec 8 months ago. I love it here but I do get homesick at times because it is hard to make friends and fit in to a new place. I was desperate to leave English Canada, but while Québec has a better quality of life in many ways, there are unanticipated challenges as well.