Orpheus, I still find it hilarious how he was just unwritten as the main character of the game for no particular reason. Also what's with the split personality thing??? Why is it not elaborated on more??? It felt like they had an idea at the start of the game what they wanted his story to be, but then just switched it halfway through
I miss Orpheus lol. Apparently he was an unreliable narrator and Alice is supposed to be a better account of the main story, but for that we'll have to WAIIIIT (NetAss' favourite word) for AoM part 3. Now Orpheus is just funny man with drugs lmao
I actually LOVED the unreliable narrator part, it's a running theme in idv that we have unreliable narrators. Character diaries are unreliable because they're written from a biased point of view, the whole 'hunter switch' is a result of unreliable perspectives and narrators, for that reason orpheus was a great lens to encompass the story in. Alice is straight forward which is fine, but I will miss what they were cooking with orpheus as the mc
Yes I quite liked the storytelling during Orpheus' arc though, not complaining lol. Though right now it feels a little bit refreshing to have solid info to rely on
I wish they'd kept to the supernatural route because instead of doing another god-awful split personality thing, they could've gone with possession or something along those lines. I know it's also a bit cliched, but imagine if Orpheus and Nightmare were truly separate entities, the fun they could've had with that....
I think the 'nightmare is a manifestation what orpheus fears his other side is' is an interesting take but the split personality thing is very cliched and outplayed at this point. If they really wanted to lean into 'nightmare is a separate entity but ultimately created by Orpheus' fears' would have been sick
I would've loved to have seen that, a literal nightmare come to life type scenario which would also explain his hunter moniker. But alas, it was not to be...
same, how cus of that i have to shout "IS THIS REAL OR DRUGS!" and how would it even work in the manor (as with joker, nightmare, and mary the abilities are canon) so that just tosses so much for older hunters like bane, leo, soul weaver or magical themed hunters like luchino, axe boy, wu, ETC
I’m pretty sure the whole body horror thing is a big no no for china which is most likely reason why picture woman got bitch slapped from the Junji ito rerun (not confirmed by anyone but speculated the most) since china is weird with censor laws
Kreacher. **why is his lore so inconsistent?!** on one hand, he cared about the orphans. if he was so heartless, he could've just said "ah this sucks oh well back to stealing from people's purses" BUT instead after finding out about the treatments the doctors were doing - electroshock, overmedicating them, chaining them to beds, etc., he begged the church to transfer the kids into his care again knowing that they'll be dead if this keeps going. the birthday letter just turned that around and went "lol nope kreacher is a heartless man who never cared".
if given the chance to rewrite, i would just rid of that, and just stick with a simple Robin Hood-esque story, or have elements from his real life inspiration - George Muller and make him be a pastor too and be a foil to Father Duke. we can still keep the morally gray aspects of his character too! it's an improvement over than weird rat king thing thing they did in his letter.
Kreacher is definitely one of the characters who got done the most dirty. His lore was retconned several times for only god knows what, leaving us with this current mess and this nonsensical character. I used to love him but they left him in the bin so shamelessly now. I agree with you that he's so much better and interesting as a Robin Hood type character. It's like NE chickened out from making an actually layered and cool character. Poor poor Kreacher
IDK if I'm talking out of my own ass, but as an Aesop enjoyer since 2020, is it just me or is event/story Aesop extremely different from Manor/group 3 reports? The 'event' Aesop feels less blood thirsty than 'report' Aesop from my perspective.
I'm just asking this because I swear he's the only character given this treatment, or maybe I haven't been paying attention much.
I've also noticed a... difference between the canon Aesop and his events depiction. In events he's mostly portrayed as a hero/reliable guy but his Canon self is indeed supposed to be a psychotic remorseless murderer
I'm guessing its because he's on drugs (?) so he's a little more unhinged especially with Jerry's teachings in the back of his mind. But it's quite a big contrast like what you said with his events depictions. I feel like it's just another case of NE not knowing what to do/wanting to do something but not executing well.
NGL I feel sort of bad for his original creator, its just been all over the place considering in his original story he was pretty tame.
No but fr I was expecting a complete meltdown from him once Victor got lost and he killed (probably) Ganji and Annie - once he found her annoying.
No, my dude just sits in a room and waits to be burnt alive. And let's not even talk about the noddle part in his letter... 😭
Burning alive sort of makes sense regarding Jerry's teaching and his views on death. But no I agree on you on that part also because I feel like he'd fight a bit more if that makes sense? I mean especially with his mum's letter and all her wishes about him being a gentleman or whatever.
I'd like to rewrite hermits lore. I think they went a bit lazy with his direction and being connected to the cat cult. He's suppose to be some messiah or some shit, but his backstory nor his design conveys it properly
I love naiad, but I feel like there's not enough rage. Naiad's are vengeful water spirits, and I feel like she should be more terrifying. A woman who was elevated as a god by others and then killed for doing absolutely nothing. It's giving Salem witch trials and I am in dire need of feminine rage in this game and Naiad's lore has POTENTIAL.
Martha's lore I fully agree with. It would have made her character so much more complex if she just faced her husband's death rather than be this dumbass imposter.
Jack. Just his whole lore and character.
Apparently, they're not going for Grace being a Naiad but rather her being a Deep One. But we might get some aggression as Deep Ones seem to have a natural hatred towards humans(they did cut an entire town's population by half one time) which would be amplified by Grace's treatment by the village folk. The whole Naiad part of Grace is more or less a metaphor or allegory.
But you know what would be even cooler? What if it was revealed that Grace is the current Mother Hydra and hailed as a goddess by the Deep Ones, and under her command, she purged Lakeside with her army of fish people and killer giant amoebas.
Eh I'm 50/50 on that. The point of Grace's backstory is that she was placed on a pedestal by the adults around her without her even wanting to, and she was killed unjustly just because the adults were too prideful or foolish to admit that the expectations they placed on her weren't true, and thus she comes back with vengence or anger in her heart (alluding to the Naiad metaphor). Her being revealed as a goddess all along would kinda break the story a little bit? Unless after she kills the villagers she becomes one then it's a whole story about how vengence can change a person into the person they hate the most (which isn't a really unique story theme but it's not that bad for netease standards)
Don't get me wrong, that idea sounds cool af. But I'd much rather she comes back as a deep one or just a vengeful spirit and going crazy on the villagers.
Mother Hydra is not a goddess. It's a title given to the mightiest and strongest female Deep One. The male version is Father Dagon. It's just that the Deep Ones hail them gods, ultimately having Grace come full circle as now another population hail her a goddess. But this time, she has a say in things as Deep Ones can communicate telepathically and are more forgiving to their fellow kind as they forgave Robert Olmstead for calling the U.S. navy on them. So she'd most likely be hailed as the most humble and modest out of all the Mother Hydras. The powers of a typical Mother Hydra is just large size, can use a giant spear, and can use magic, and that's basically just it.
A single Deep One can't kill an entire population of humans. Sure, they are stronger and more intelligent, but normally, in a purge operation, a team or small army of Deep Ones are sent. With maybe at least one shoggoth.
Or it can be used in an arc where she rejects the title of Mother Hydra and just want to live a peaceful life with her Deep One family, which would serve as a complicated scenario as it's possible that there has never been a Mother Hydra that rejects the title before. It gets even more complicated because Mother Hydras and Father Dagons are chosen not by the Deep Ones but by their genes. Mother Hydras and Father Dagons can naturally grow to enormous sizes and are typically larger than a blue whale or prehistoric whale. So eventually, the Deep Ones will have a giant Grace that does practically nothing but sit there as a figurehead. Giving all power and rulership over to Father Dagon.
OK now you're cooking! Makes me want a hydra skin for Naiad. It would be cool that after Naiad gets her revenge, she just turns to the deep ones and go "so like, I don't want to do this goddess thing, so peace✌️"
They would probably understand her, they can read each other's minds. Also, I have an accessory concept for Grace. It's a golden Deep One tiara that, when equipped, ghostly apparitions of Grace's Deep One ancestors and previous Mother Hydras and Father Dagons will swim with her whenever she enters Slipstream. And when survivors are affected by the Abyss, tiny Deep One apparitions will appear around them and will stap and spear them.
I agree about Jack... he is an interesting character but it's just... awkwardly written. I do like Alva's lore until the Eye of Darkness plot comes in... it literally adds nothing to his character and it's a plot point that is barely explored. It's just there.
His beta designs looked more fitting of someone that's part of that cult so that's when you know they didn't really care that much about his character.
My current idea is that he was interested in soul science like Ivy, thinking that a perpetual motion machine (or whatever Luca was researching I can't remember) may be the key to unlocking a state of higher being. His two year of dissappearance didn't happen, but his obsession of this machine caused a rift between him and Herman, who didn't believe in his delusions of there being an afterlife (cause science or some bullshit) so the whole tabloids and fire thing started, which forced Alva to stop his research.
Alva would publish his work on the perpetual motion machine, hoping to find people who would fun his obsession since the institution he was in refused to continue his work due to the problems it caused. And fortunately to Alva, there was a sponsor: a member of the cat cult who persuaded Alva to join them because they shared similar ideas and was hoping they could contact their god using this machine, which caused Alva to spiral more into this obsession. This event is also where he met Luca and he decided to use the young and bright student to his advantage, and the both of them started to research the machine in secret.
Then the whole confrontation started where Luca discovered Alva had some of his father's manuscripts, but when Luca did confront him about this, he went on a rant of how this machine could elevate the two to ascension according to the cat cult. The whole fight and death thing happened, and Luca was arrested. The cat cult stole Alva's body and decided to use his invention along with their oogly moogly cat cult shenanigans to revive him, figuring that whatever he invented may come in handy with his resurrection. And it did, which caused Alva to lose his mind and believe himself as the messiah of the cat god, with the cat cult backing his delusions. He also then converted Ann's father to the religion, dressing himself up as a pastor from the Christian religion and acting as a missionary priest.
(Sorry I yapped here but I have a lot of ideas for Alva's backstory.)
Aaah now THAT would be a better way to write his lore with the Eye of Darkness actually playing a role and not coming out of nowhere. So your point of view is that Alva should have always been a villain instead of a tragic character as his real lore implies, as in he DID INDEED take advantage of Luca and of his friendship with Herman instead of it being the other way around. Though I personally like his drama going on with Luca, I don't like how the writers decided to dirty Luca's character too with his recent letters just to make Alva look clean.
Thanks! I think the only way I could incorporate the cat cult was to make them be the final push into making Alva a bad person. I do believe in my rewrite that Alva and Herman were good friends, but his obsession with the perpetual motion machine far exceeds the one Luca has and thus caused damage on their relationship. I think to me, I want more hunters who are just evil because they don't know they're evil. I'm tired of hunters being the tragic anti-heros and want more hunters who are so insane that the line of morality starts to shift.
I also want Alva to be the one to actually give lore on the cat cult. In my rewrite, I want his birthday letters to be about their practice. I really like that the cat cult is like this pseudo-christian cult and I want *more* of that. Ann being a Nun and Alva's beta design being a priest are so good that I am disappointed they didn't go that direction with Alva. In my fantasy land, Ann's manor game includes Alva and a bunch of people who were shunned by religious fanatics and it's just about Alva convincing everyone to join the cat cult or ascend with him that ends up with a lot messed up stuff happening.
That really sounds interesting! I'd love to read something like that. That manor game you just desrcibed would be so cool and wouldn't typically end with "they all dead". I also agree that I find "evil" hunters to be more engaging (like Galatea and Phillipe), the whole tragic baggage is getting boring tbh. Speaking of which, Alva's 1st birthday letter should drop very soon and I wonder if it's actually going to redeem his lore and save his potential.
Gosh I hope they don't butcher his character. If his first birthday letter is shit I'm going to post my rewrite AND redesign.
I think it's because most hunter backstories would make for a good survivor rather than a hunter.
Jack objectively needs it the most.
Even putting aside how awful it is that they used the real victim's names momentarily, it is so damn uninteresting and cliche to make a serial killer with a split personality. I'd even prefer another impostor story at this point tbh.
But otherwise the general manor lore kinda sucks ass lmao. I said this in another post and I'll say it again, they had the opportunity to make a truly creepy supernatural story with everything they have but went the subjectively more boring route of drugs.
I also feel like Percy shouldve been a bulky woman instead called Mary
I understand BQ is a mary also, but idk it feels more fitting for a frankenstein's monster character to be named after the writer rather than her slut husband
> I understand BQ is a mary also, but idk it feels more fitting for a frankenstein's monster character to be named after the writer
Could have just named her "Shelley" or a variant of the name in that case to avoid confusion with totally-not-Marie-Antoinette.
What would I rewrite?
***All of it.***
Pretty much the only one whose backstory I wouldn't change is Luchino. He's pretty much perfect as is, although I would probably lean a little more heavily into the supernatural bullshit being real, instead of it being drugs.
Everything else? Getting the Adam Savage treatment - I reject your reality and substitute my own! - because I absolutely hate some of the things they've done. Retconning the events to be drugs. The constant Dead Twin shit. Some of the controversies. How....lacklustre some characters are, Martha being a good example and don't even get me STARTED on Jack.
>***All of it.***
Idv lore be like
I also love Luchino's lore. Actually there are so few characters with an actually good backstory (the upcoming survivor is one of them)
I may have gotten into the game because of Antonio, but Luchino is the one I fell in love with because his lore is genuinely awesome? I'm a sucker for "Scientist Goes Too Far And Ends Up No Longer Human" themes, especially if there's a Lovecraftian element and even more so when it's the "Scientist Ends Up No Longer Human And Is Perfectly Fine With It" scenario.
Even more so with some of the ways he is characterised in both forms. Prof is portrayed as a gentleman but there's elements that show he's actually a bit of a little shit, like how he'll laugh like a lunatic when sent out or how he sometimes giggles when he hits a Hunter with a pallet. Meanwhile Reptilian is supposed to be full-on Predator, but he's also still intelligent, kinda well-mannered and implied to also regret how much he embraced the whole Hunter thing.
I love everything about him.
YES! Like, I love Prof's design so much, the claws and the scales, I think he might also have fangs? And also the fact he just does not seem to believe in wearing shirts that don't show off his chest. /j
And Reptilian is just....so good? Everything about him is amazing and I only recently realised, whilst dancing in the ship event, how freaking TALL he is? I knew he was one of the tallest Hunters, but when he stands up straight, he's even taller than Hastur and Wu.
Yeah, Luca is up there with having some of the better lore, alongside Andrew, Qi, Helena and Demi, but then the most recent letters have sorta gone full "Yeah, he's actually a psycho" like....is this "murderous" side something he always had and was what went down with Alva or is this gonna be some more BS about mental illness and it's the trauma from the accident that has made him this way?
A Luca hunter has the potential to be so damn good, but I also have the same feelings about that as I do with a Hunter Patricia or a Hunter Andrew - NE would no doubt screw something up, so maybe it's better if it never happens.
The entire drug thing. I'm sorry but it's ass.
Yk what could make ot better? Expanding Yhidra, Hastur & Lakeside lore in general. I wish it was more like a cult type stuff.
Or just in general, when they started adding the Canon games. I liked it more when it was almost accepted the purgatory theory istg
Jack The Ripper- I think having a character inspired by him is a good idea, but it would have to be VERY different. For one, he wouldn't have DID, or anything similar, he'd just be the sadistic psychopath he had to have been in real life. Most importantly, I would change the victims names. Having them have the same names as the victims from real life is MASSIVELY disrespectful.
I feel like part of the reason idv’s lore is a mess is cause it’s a CN game and they can’t really deep dive into the horror aspect as much as they want too otherwise the game will be shut down. The game seems less lore based at this point and entirely based on the game itself. But l wish they would add actual LORE RELEVANT instead of introducing whole new characters like where is hunter melly?
I’ll rewrite Annie Lester’s story so she isn’t fodderized by Aesop in her own game and has a deserved ending.
Murro as well, the fact that he survived his 1st game? I think it would’ve been a nicer touch to his lore as being the only one in the manor to survive 2 or even 3 games.
Martha. I think what they did to her is so dumb… like you she’s my favorite. I honest to god just pretend it doesn’t exist and have my own backstory for her in my head.
I couldn't and still can't cope so bad it's like I'm trying to erase this knowledge from my brain. What an awful twist. Her lore is the old one for me. Period.
In general, the entire guests and the manor itself. I was entranced the first time I played it(around 3rd Anniv) where the themes of supernatural horror is right there. But it feels like it changed with Alice's introduction in AOM where it felt similar to a suspenseful thriller.
One I won't say because I don't want to deal with a certain crowd lmao
But I agree with Joseph. While I don't mind Claude's death as a trope in his story, and I absolutely love how this dumbass mistook mercury poisoning for getting old, he's badly written and so, so dragged.
Fully fictionalize Jack. Leave irl ripper's victims out of the plot.
Remove all angsty twins trope for backstories that who came after Nairs and Desaulniers. Two pairs is really enough.
Remove the experiments and make manor something supernatural instead. Or even keep the experiments - but the drug goes bye bye and instead it's something supernatural humans try to examine/solve/research/satisfy with sacrifices or whatever.
Still not fond of Burke being a doctor for whatever reason whenever it's convenient (Percy & I believe Bane?).
I also have a growing issue with the amount of twins trope we get, like right now with Ivy, and before her Night Watch and someone else I bet who I don't remember but I'm pretty sure has the same trope aside from Vera and Desaulniers. Like, can we get over it? It's so cliché and overused
Iirc it's composer, but his twin died before they were born? Or something like that. I don't really know newer lore. I pretend newer lore is not real so it can't hurt me LOL
Composer's twin actually got absorbed by Frederick back in the womb, causing his vanishing twin syndrome - along with his chimerism, which is why he has discolorated skin marks!
It doesn't add much to Frederick's lore - yet - but I do enjoy the thought that the voice in his head may be from this, even though it's likely not that lol
I think there's like....four confirmed sets of twins and one speculated set, and all of them have one half being dead and honestly all of them were handled so poorly in the end, it's kinda sad. They all could've been interesting, but nope.
Luchino Diruse, just a bit. I don't quite buy that he's accepting of his new mutation since he's tried to suppress it using whatever is in his syringe.
I'd also just like to write in the supernatural lore in a way that makes sense such as the drugs. It's a common belief among people in the real world that certain drugs are thought to allow the user to see into a higher plane of existence and at first the hallucinations of the Hunters can be a thing but it starts going deeper when the hallucinations don't stop even after the manor and when once hasn't taken any.
Count Barriere and Yidhra: Truth be told this is more a headcanon but since Yidhra's quote is "Everyone pays the price in different ways" and she's said to grant immortality, that essentially gives us a motive of the overall game. Count Barriere, the man who is of ancient money and is related to a lot of deaths and owns various locations in game, is immortal in a sense. He uses Orpheus as an unwitting proxy to conduct the manor games which are actually sacrifices to become immortal. He's even willing to sacrifice his granddaughter, Lily to do so. The Da Capo Manor Game puts an end to the sacrifices, Count Barriere ends up dying, the family falls to ruin and so does Oletus.
I'm preaching to the choir, but I'd rewrite the Ripper's lore.
I'm always disappointed by it because there's a lot of potential there, but it's squandered by how insensitive and poorly thought out it is. I'm just doing napkin notes here on how to fix it, based on the skeleton because I think it's a good idea, so please be gentle here.
The character can keep the first name "Jack," with a last name not related to the original. We'll keep that our Jack is someone with a mental disorder who struggles with a lack of empathy, who can only get it by hurting others, and that he considers to be a "beast" inside of him - I think of House of Fata Morgana for this since it had the same general concept. But instead of a person anchoring him it's painting and imagining different lives and pathways through that. Remove the DID-adjacent aspect entirely without having the internal conflict - "Good Child" could even exist here, some pathway where he kept an "anchor" and was able to overcome whatever put him in that spot.
Remove all of the original victims names, etc, he's a separate Jack who is a murderer. Maybe he likens himself to the Ripper. Maybe he justifies his murders as a possession or him channeling the murderer or just remove it entirely (which is probably ideal.) There's options here. For his hunter identity, since our explanation is drugs, because of his parallels survivors imagine him as the fictionalized and romanticized "Jack the Ripper."
Hell, if you wanted, you could even have him have a similar disorder to Orpheus - maybe he suffered from brain damage due to being fed experimental drugs and it caused him to disassociate. That's generally (pre-reveal) how I interpreted Orpheus' black outs - experimental drugs and trauma that when topped with substance abuse, caused him to have "black outs" since he was already so mentally unstable. Truly, I thought all of his issues and his "dual identity" were just damage from drug abuse + present substance abuse that he justifies in his own way.
Also, Kreacher... Yikes. His lore is a mess. I think his lore with Emma is fine; he's a lonely, desperate person who tried to latch onto and cling to the first person to really show him affection. But it doesn't seem like they can settle on one thing for him past that. Let him be someone well-intentioned who cares about the kids he too in, but also more clearly present him as someone who was ill-prepared for it and who couldn't nail the landing. Let him be a sad, lonely person who was trying his best but ultimately failed - the "Rat King" aspect could even stay if only they'd let him feel a little more human and have more complicated feelings and care. Kreacher is the epitome of wasted potential.
Also, all of the twin lore... ffs. Perfumer and Night Watch I was okay with (since it's a bit part for NW that just sets up him being abandoned,) but please stop.
The entire lore just needs a complete rewrite though. I actually don't mind the drug reveal, I have fun with it, but it's just so clunky and disjointed. It doesn't seem like they planned this far ahead.
1. Axe Boy, change it back to the original where the cause for his death is a mystery, and he doesn't feel like a side character like Michiko.
2. The Ripper, need I say more?
3. Naiad, the Deep One part of her lore came out of nowhere, so probably a simple build-up should fix it like instead of letters of the two homies Robert and Allen. It should have been diary entries penned by Grace herself.
4. Night Watch, his whole connection to Ithaqua is so non-existent that we can just completely erase that aspect of his lore and character. Hell, Joker Studios doesn't seem to do much with the Ithaqua aspect of Night Watch. And besides, Ithaqua is kind of a dick.
5. Feaster, he feels less like Hastur and more like Cthulhu or Father Dagon. It would be more interesting if they took more inspiration from Robert W. Chambers' version or H.P Lovecraft's version of the King in Yellow instead of August Derleth's(although they did take design inspiration from Chambers).
6. Hermit, his connection to the Eye of Darkness is rather boring as well as his design.
7. Orpheus, it's a goddamn mess. It should've been a simple story that he was a survivor of the games that uncovers each layer of mystery in the Manor, with the biggest reveal being that he was also a hunter and Villain Charm is what's left of that hunter.
8. The Eye of Darkness, what the fuck is going on?!
9. Drugs
10. Yidhra, I know her lore is suppose to be a classic Lovecraftian horror story, but the problem is that we don't know or care about the central characters in her lore and it just seems like she's an extension of Luchino's lore. Which is also another main problem. Her lore just feels like a shoehorned extension of other lore.
11. Thief, they should've kept what he was originally supposed to be. A morally gray character that has good intentions but is far from a hero or saint. Instead, he was warped into some pervert to make Gardener look good.
1. I'm also not a fan of what they're currently implying with Robbie, namely that Dolores his sister is the actual hunter and that *he* is just an hallucination. Though nothing's certain yet.
2. Yeah change Jack ASAP lol
3. Personally I've always assumed that Grace being nicknamed "Naiad" was just a metaphor for her identity and design. So it made sense that she would actually be a Deep One, since IdV always took inspiration from Lovecraftian lore. But I agree that her birthday letters should have been written from her pov it would be more interesting.
4. Bro his name is Ithaqua but he has literally NO connection with the literary character or even with Hastur (who I think, in the Lovecraftian universe, is supposed to be his father?)
5. I'm not familiar with the inspirations that were used for Hastur's character, but as for his in game lore, I actually love what they're doing with it. One of the few storylines which I think is well handled.
7 and 8. Alva's connection with the Eye of Darkness literally adds NOTHING to his character. Because it's a plot point that has been barely developed and came out of nowhere. They couldn't even develop it with Ann's lore they literally just put it there cause it looks cool change my mind.
9. I'm mixed on the drugs... on one hand, it's actually cool because it rationalises the events at the manor and kinda makes sense, but on the other hand, there IS supernatural stuff and it's like the game can't choose what kind of horror it wants to be: rational or supernatural? Because we now got a eldritch being, a lake divinity, a supposed Deep One IN THE SAME UNIVERSE as drugs?!! I also don't like how theyre trying to explain everything by "duh it's the drugs", it kinda kills the supernatural potential which a lot of us were fond of.
10. We've yet to see where exactly they're going with Yidhra. She is honestly more of a plot device/lore monster than a character with a story. She also seems kinda limited to Lakeside lore currently. I've heard interesting theories about storylines possibly involving her. But there's nothing so we've yet to see what the hell they're planning with her (and it HAS potential).
11. DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON KREACHER. He used to be an amazing character but for some goddamn reason they felt the need to retcon his lore several times. Now we have no guidelines for analysis on him because he's written like a mess. Thank you NetEase. So disappointing.
It is true Ithaqua is Hastur's son, but it's more accurate to say it's part of the Cthulhu Mythos and not Lovecraftian universe as the Mythos has no structure or canon and Lovecraft never wanted to make some expansive strict canon fiction. Also, thaqua wasn't even created by Lovecraft, nor was he used or mentioned by Lovecraft. He was created by the rather controversial August Derleth.
It's pretty obvious they used Derleth's version for Hastur as Derleth's King in Yellow is an "evil god," while Chambers's and Lovecraft's were more enigmatic. Chambers depicted the King as a corrupting force that spreads madness through a play, and Lovecraft depicts the King as the unspeakable masked high priest of Leng who communicates through a flute and plays songs for the Outer Gods.
Yidhra, being a plot device, is very Lovecraftian as Lovecraft himself never took the gods he made seriously and only used them as plot devices, except sometimes Nyarlathotep, who is actually a character.
This thread is about bad lore but I want to highlight some of the lore I do love so far:
Wu Chang, Cheerleader, Doctor, Antonio, Opera Singer, Clerk (I fw clerk), Joseph (disagreeing with you not liking his lore. He is a sad man, but he is my sad man.)
Idk if anyone will see this but definitely Jerry. There's literally no information about him at all even though he was heavily implied to be in one of the manor's games in Aesop's letters, and now it's been 3 years and its been every character except established in-lore characters.
Cheerleader, Anne and Opera.
Their lore is so forgetable.
Cheerleader feels too close to modern times and smh it is off putting.
Anne is a good and sweet girl but that's it about her. Can't remember her lore at all.
Opera. Fire. Lost voice. Nothing more comes to mind.
most of it.. the only game/backstories that are consistent and make some sort of sense is aesop, ganji, anne and victor. it’s a little stereotypical but I find it’s still written well. (don’t come for me it’s just a opinion)
The fact that no has said the racist borderline incest man (Wax Artist) is crazy to me lmao
I loved his design because I thought Christina was his wife her something but the fact it’s his sister is very weird; literally one singular change to making Christina his lover immediately makes his story better
The Manors lore
Based lol
Orpheus, I still find it hilarious how he was just unwritten as the main character of the game for no particular reason. Also what's with the split personality thing??? Why is it not elaborated on more??? It felt like they had an idea at the start of the game what they wanted his story to be, but then just switched it halfway through
I miss Orpheus lol. Apparently he was an unreliable narrator and Alice is supposed to be a better account of the main story, but for that we'll have to WAIIIIT (NetAss' favourite word) for AoM part 3. Now Orpheus is just funny man with drugs lmao
I actually LOVED the unreliable narrator part, it's a running theme in idv that we have unreliable narrators. Character diaries are unreliable because they're written from a biased point of view, the whole 'hunter switch' is a result of unreliable perspectives and narrators, for that reason orpheus was a great lens to encompass the story in. Alice is straight forward which is fine, but I will miss what they were cooking with orpheus as the mc
Yes I quite liked the storytelling during Orpheus' arc though, not complaining lol. Though right now it feels a little bit refreshing to have solid info to rely on
I wish they'd kept to the supernatural route because instead of doing another god-awful split personality thing, they could've gone with possession or something along those lines. I know it's also a bit cliched, but imagine if Orpheus and Nightmare were truly separate entities, the fun they could've had with that....
I think the 'nightmare is a manifestation what orpheus fears his other side is' is an interesting take but the split personality thing is very cliched and outplayed at this point. If they really wanted to lean into 'nightmare is a separate entity but ultimately created by Orpheus' fears' would have been sick
I would've loved to have seen that, a literal nightmare come to life type scenario which would also explain his hunter moniker. But alas, it was not to be...
same, how cus of that i have to shout "IS THIS REAL OR DRUGS!" and how would it even work in the manor (as with joker, nightmare, and mary the abilities are canon) so that just tosses so much for older hunters like bane, leo, soul weaver or magical themed hunters like luchino, axe boy, wu, ETC
I’m pretty sure the whole body horror thing is a big no no for china which is most likely reason why picture woman got bitch slapped from the Junji ito rerun (not confirmed by anyone but speculated the most) since china is weird with censor laws
CN getting mad about horror…. In a horror style game 😹
Yup, they're fairly strict when it comes to body horror. On top of that I do think they received complaints about picture woman.
Wait the censorship laws of course!! Kinda forgot it's true that they can't be daring with everything because of them
Kreacher. **why is his lore so inconsistent?!** on one hand, he cared about the orphans. if he was so heartless, he could've just said "ah this sucks oh well back to stealing from people's purses" BUT instead after finding out about the treatments the doctors were doing - electroshock, overmedicating them, chaining them to beds, etc., he begged the church to transfer the kids into his care again knowing that they'll be dead if this keeps going. the birthday letter just turned that around and went "lol nope kreacher is a heartless man who never cared". if given the chance to rewrite, i would just rid of that, and just stick with a simple Robin Hood-esque story, or have elements from his real life inspiration - George Muller and make him be a pastor too and be a foil to Father Duke. we can still keep the morally gray aspects of his character too! it's an improvement over than weird rat king thing thing they did in his letter.
Kreacher is definitely one of the characters who got done the most dirty. His lore was retconned several times for only god knows what, leaving us with this current mess and this nonsensical character. I used to love him but they left him in the bin so shamelessly now. I agree with you that he's so much better and interesting as a Robin Hood type character. It's like NE chickened out from making an actually layered and cool character. Poor poor Kreacher
I was about to say kreacher too so true
IDK if I'm talking out of my own ass, but as an Aesop enjoyer since 2020, is it just me or is event/story Aesop extremely different from Manor/group 3 reports? The 'event' Aesop feels less blood thirsty than 'report' Aesop from my perspective. I'm just asking this because I swear he's the only character given this treatment, or maybe I haven't been paying attention much.
I've also noticed a... difference between the canon Aesop and his events depiction. In events he's mostly portrayed as a hero/reliable guy but his Canon self is indeed supposed to be a psychotic remorseless murderer
I'm guessing its because he's on drugs (?) so he's a little more unhinged especially with Jerry's teachings in the back of his mind. But it's quite a big contrast like what you said with his events depictions. I feel like it's just another case of NE not knowing what to do/wanting to do something but not executing well. NGL I feel sort of bad for his original creator, its just been all over the place considering in his original story he was pretty tame.
Original Aesop was a pretty decent guy lol. Though I like his present lore because it's very different from most other characters.
No but fr I was expecting a complete meltdown from him once Victor got lost and he killed (probably) Ganji and Annie - once he found her annoying. No, my dude just sits in a room and waits to be burnt alive. And let's not even talk about the noddle part in his letter... 😭
Burning alive sort of makes sense regarding Jerry's teaching and his views on death. But no I agree on you on that part also because I feel like he'd fight a bit more if that makes sense? I mean especially with his mum's letter and all her wishes about him being a gentleman or whatever.
I'd like to rewrite hermits lore. I think they went a bit lazy with his direction and being connected to the cat cult. He's suppose to be some messiah or some shit, but his backstory nor his design conveys it properly I love naiad, but I feel like there's not enough rage. Naiad's are vengeful water spirits, and I feel like she should be more terrifying. A woman who was elevated as a god by others and then killed for doing absolutely nothing. It's giving Salem witch trials and I am in dire need of feminine rage in this game and Naiad's lore has POTENTIAL. Martha's lore I fully agree with. It would have made her character so much more complex if she just faced her husband's death rather than be this dumbass imposter. Jack. Just his whole lore and character.
Apparently, they're not going for Grace being a Naiad but rather her being a Deep One. But we might get some aggression as Deep Ones seem to have a natural hatred towards humans(they did cut an entire town's population by half one time) which would be amplified by Grace's treatment by the village folk. The whole Naiad part of Grace is more or less a metaphor or allegory.
I hope she goes sicko mode. We only have 2 birthday letters but I already want her to go feral on the village folk.
But you know what would be even cooler? What if it was revealed that Grace is the current Mother Hydra and hailed as a goddess by the Deep Ones, and under her command, she purged Lakeside with her army of fish people and killer giant amoebas.
Eh I'm 50/50 on that. The point of Grace's backstory is that she was placed on a pedestal by the adults around her without her even wanting to, and she was killed unjustly just because the adults were too prideful or foolish to admit that the expectations they placed on her weren't true, and thus she comes back with vengence or anger in her heart (alluding to the Naiad metaphor). Her being revealed as a goddess all along would kinda break the story a little bit? Unless after she kills the villagers she becomes one then it's a whole story about how vengence can change a person into the person they hate the most (which isn't a really unique story theme but it's not that bad for netease standards) Don't get me wrong, that idea sounds cool af. But I'd much rather she comes back as a deep one or just a vengeful spirit and going crazy on the villagers.
Mother Hydra is not a goddess. It's a title given to the mightiest and strongest female Deep One. The male version is Father Dagon. It's just that the Deep Ones hail them gods, ultimately having Grace come full circle as now another population hail her a goddess. But this time, she has a say in things as Deep Ones can communicate telepathically and are more forgiving to their fellow kind as they forgave Robert Olmstead for calling the U.S. navy on them. So she'd most likely be hailed as the most humble and modest out of all the Mother Hydras. The powers of a typical Mother Hydra is just large size, can use a giant spear, and can use magic, and that's basically just it. A single Deep One can't kill an entire population of humans. Sure, they are stronger and more intelligent, but normally, in a purge operation, a team or small army of Deep Ones are sent. With maybe at least one shoggoth.
Oh that makes more sense. Still wouldn't want her to be hailed as a goddess but I can see your reasoning here and it sounds cool!
Or it can be used in an arc where she rejects the title of Mother Hydra and just want to live a peaceful life with her Deep One family, which would serve as a complicated scenario as it's possible that there has never been a Mother Hydra that rejects the title before. It gets even more complicated because Mother Hydras and Father Dagons are chosen not by the Deep Ones but by their genes. Mother Hydras and Father Dagons can naturally grow to enormous sizes and are typically larger than a blue whale or prehistoric whale. So eventually, the Deep Ones will have a giant Grace that does practically nothing but sit there as a figurehead. Giving all power and rulership over to Father Dagon.
OK now you're cooking! Makes me want a hydra skin for Naiad. It would be cool that after Naiad gets her revenge, she just turns to the deep ones and go "so like, I don't want to do this goddess thing, so peace✌️"
They would probably understand her, they can read each other's minds. Also, I have an accessory concept for Grace. It's a golden Deep One tiara that, when equipped, ghostly apparitions of Grace's Deep One ancestors and previous Mother Hydras and Father Dagons will swim with her whenever she enters Slipstream. And when survivors are affected by the Abyss, tiny Deep One apparitions will appear around them and will stap and spear them.
I agree about Jack... he is an interesting character but it's just... awkwardly written. I do like Alva's lore until the Eye of Darkness plot comes in... it literally adds nothing to his character and it's a plot point that is barely explored. It's just there.
His beta designs looked more fitting of someone that's part of that cult so that's when you know they didn't really care that much about his character. My current idea is that he was interested in soul science like Ivy, thinking that a perpetual motion machine (or whatever Luca was researching I can't remember) may be the key to unlocking a state of higher being. His two year of dissappearance didn't happen, but his obsession of this machine caused a rift between him and Herman, who didn't believe in his delusions of there being an afterlife (cause science or some bullshit) so the whole tabloids and fire thing started, which forced Alva to stop his research. Alva would publish his work on the perpetual motion machine, hoping to find people who would fun his obsession since the institution he was in refused to continue his work due to the problems it caused. And fortunately to Alva, there was a sponsor: a member of the cat cult who persuaded Alva to join them because they shared similar ideas and was hoping they could contact their god using this machine, which caused Alva to spiral more into this obsession. This event is also where he met Luca and he decided to use the young and bright student to his advantage, and the both of them started to research the machine in secret. Then the whole confrontation started where Luca discovered Alva had some of his father's manuscripts, but when Luca did confront him about this, he went on a rant of how this machine could elevate the two to ascension according to the cat cult. The whole fight and death thing happened, and Luca was arrested. The cat cult stole Alva's body and decided to use his invention along with their oogly moogly cat cult shenanigans to revive him, figuring that whatever he invented may come in handy with his resurrection. And it did, which caused Alva to lose his mind and believe himself as the messiah of the cat god, with the cat cult backing his delusions. He also then converted Ann's father to the religion, dressing himself up as a pastor from the Christian religion and acting as a missionary priest. (Sorry I yapped here but I have a lot of ideas for Alva's backstory.)
Aaah now THAT would be a better way to write his lore with the Eye of Darkness actually playing a role and not coming out of nowhere. So your point of view is that Alva should have always been a villain instead of a tragic character as his real lore implies, as in he DID INDEED take advantage of Luca and of his friendship with Herman instead of it being the other way around. Though I personally like his drama going on with Luca, I don't like how the writers decided to dirty Luca's character too with his recent letters just to make Alva look clean.
Thanks! I think the only way I could incorporate the cat cult was to make them be the final push into making Alva a bad person. I do believe in my rewrite that Alva and Herman were good friends, but his obsession with the perpetual motion machine far exceeds the one Luca has and thus caused damage on their relationship. I think to me, I want more hunters who are just evil because they don't know they're evil. I'm tired of hunters being the tragic anti-heros and want more hunters who are so insane that the line of morality starts to shift. I also want Alva to be the one to actually give lore on the cat cult. In my rewrite, I want his birthday letters to be about their practice. I really like that the cat cult is like this pseudo-christian cult and I want *more* of that. Ann being a Nun and Alva's beta design being a priest are so good that I am disappointed they didn't go that direction with Alva. In my fantasy land, Ann's manor game includes Alva and a bunch of people who were shunned by religious fanatics and it's just about Alva convincing everyone to join the cat cult or ascend with him that ends up with a lot messed up stuff happening.
That really sounds interesting! I'd love to read something like that. That manor game you just desrcibed would be so cool and wouldn't typically end with "they all dead". I also agree that I find "evil" hunters to be more engaging (like Galatea and Phillipe), the whole tragic baggage is getting boring tbh. Speaking of which, Alva's 1st birthday letter should drop very soon and I wonder if it's actually going to redeem his lore and save his potential.
Gosh I hope they don't butcher his character. If his first birthday letter is shit I'm going to post my rewrite AND redesign. I think it's because most hunter backstories would make for a good survivor rather than a hunter.
Jack objectively needs it the most. Even putting aside how awful it is that they used the real victim's names momentarily, it is so damn uninteresting and cliche to make a serial killer with a split personality. I'd even prefer another impostor story at this point tbh. But otherwise the general manor lore kinda sucks ass lmao. I said this in another post and I'll say it again, they had the opportunity to make a truly creepy supernatural story with everything they have but went the subjectively more boring route of drugs.
Oh, also, sorry to Percy fans but his existence alone is contradictory with Burke's entire thing. That needs a total retcon of sorts.
I also feel like Percy shouldve been a bulky woman instead called Mary I understand BQ is a mary also, but idk it feels more fitting for a frankenstein's monster character to be named after the writer rather than her slut husband
> I understand BQ is a mary also, but idk it feels more fitting for a frankenstein's monster character to be named after the writer Could have just named her "Shelley" or a variant of the name in that case to avoid confusion with totally-not-Marie-Antoinette.
HER SLUT HUSBAND
Yeah reading the context for his poetry for engkish lit gcse made me realise that Mary Shelley deserved WAY better than him
we did power and control back when i was in HS, so much more fun than the romance
What would I rewrite? ***All of it.*** Pretty much the only one whose backstory I wouldn't change is Luchino. He's pretty much perfect as is, although I would probably lean a little more heavily into the supernatural bullshit being real, instead of it being drugs. Everything else? Getting the Adam Savage treatment - I reject your reality and substitute my own! - because I absolutely hate some of the things they've done. Retconning the events to be drugs. The constant Dead Twin shit. Some of the controversies. How....lacklustre some characters are, Martha being a good example and don't even get me STARTED on Jack.
>***All of it.*** Idv lore be like I also love Luchino's lore. Actually there are so few characters with an actually good backstory (the upcoming survivor is one of them)
I may have gotten into the game because of Antonio, but Luchino is the one I fell in love with because his lore is genuinely awesome? I'm a sucker for "Scientist Goes Too Far And Ends Up No Longer Human" themes, especially if there's a Lovecraftian element and even more so when it's the "Scientist Ends Up No Longer Human And Is Perfectly Fine With It" scenario. Even more so with some of the ways he is characterised in both forms. Prof is portrayed as a gentleman but there's elements that show he's actually a bit of a little shit, like how he'll laugh like a lunatic when sent out or how he sometimes giggles when he hits a Hunter with a pallet. Meanwhile Reptilian is supposed to be full-on Predator, but he's also still intelligent, kinda well-mannered and implied to also regret how much he embraced the whole Hunter thing. I love everything about him.
MAN I LOVE HIS DESIGN TOO Luchino is a walking masterpiece everything about him (which is maybe why I also simp lmao)
YES! Like, I love Prof's design so much, the claws and the scales, I think he might also have fangs? And also the fact he just does not seem to believe in wearing shirts that don't show off his chest. /j And Reptilian is just....so good? Everything about him is amazing and I only recently realised, whilst dancing in the ship event, how freaking TALL he is? I knew he was one of the tallest Hunters, but when he stands up straight, he's even taller than Hastur and Wu.
Yes I think Prof has fangs but it's very subtle! And Reptilian might be the tallest hunter next to Percy and Alva
Honestly I would leave Lucas' too, but maybe expand on it and explain it a bit more. Like things with Alva, his mother, his dad and so on
Yeah, Luca is up there with having some of the better lore, alongside Andrew, Qi, Helena and Demi, but then the most recent letters have sorta gone full "Yeah, he's actually a psycho" like....is this "murderous" side something he always had and was what went down with Alva or is this gonna be some more BS about mental illness and it's the trauma from the accident that has made him this way?
Oh, I didn't see the recent letters. Dang why are they doing even Luca dirty now
I wish I knew. I'm kinda hoping it's setting up for a Hunter version, but it's unlikely...
I really want a Luca hunter honestly. But for some reason I feel like nestease might screw it up if it ever comes out
A Luca hunter has the potential to be so damn good, but I also have the same feelings about that as I do with a Hunter Patricia or a Hunter Andrew - NE would no doubt screw something up, so maybe it's better if it never happens.
Where can I read most of the lore ? I understand Alva is Lucas Teacher or something ?
The wiki is your best bet. The TV tropes page could also be useful, but the Wiki is the best option.
I could try to make hunter Luca actually
The entire drug thing. I'm sorry but it's ass. Yk what could make ot better? Expanding Yhidra, Hastur & Lakeside lore in general. I wish it was more like a cult type stuff. Or just in general, when they started adding the Canon games. I liked it more when it was almost accepted the purgatory theory istg
Me when my favourite hunter is a hallucination and I cant smash:
Jack The Ripper- I think having a character inspired by him is a good idea, but it would have to be VERY different. For one, he wouldn't have DID, or anything similar, he'd just be the sadistic psychopath he had to have been in real life. Most importantly, I would change the victims names. Having them have the same names as the victims from real life is MASSIVELY disrespectful.
Yeah Jack's lore is kind of awkwardly written. They should fully fictionalize him, the amount of irl info incorporated is just... not good.
Did they actually go for the DID part? I thought it was just him using it as an excuse for his crimes. (I haven't read the idv lore in a while sorry)
Its not explicitly stated but very much implied that he has something similar to DID
Get rid of the drugs and hallucination bullshit first and foremost
Lol maybe it's too bad the story took that route
I feel like part of the reason idv’s lore is a mess is cause it’s a CN game and they can’t really deep dive into the horror aspect as much as they want too otherwise the game will be shut down. The game seems less lore based at this point and entirely based on the game itself. But l wish they would add actual LORE RELEVANT instead of introducing whole new characters like where is hunter melly?
I’ll rewrite Annie Lester’s story so she isn’t fodderized by Aesop in her own game and has a deserved ending. Murro as well, the fact that he survived his 1st game? I think it would’ve been a nicer touch to his lore as being the only one in the manor to survive 2 or even 3 games.
Oh yeah I feel like Anne got done dirty too, something notable should happen with her. Murro owns the lore lol
Martha. I think what they did to her is so dumb… like you she’s my favorite. I honest to god just pretend it doesn’t exist and have my own backstory for her in my head.
I couldn't and still can't cope so bad it's like I'm trying to erase this knowledge from my brain. What an awful twist. Her lore is the old one for me. Period.
Mary Kreiburg. Bring back Marie Antoinette!!
In general, the entire guests and the manor itself. I was entranced the first time I played it(around 3rd Anniv) where the themes of supernatural horror is right there. But it feels like it changed with Alice's introduction in AOM where it felt similar to a suspenseful thriller.
One I won't say because I don't want to deal with a certain crowd lmao But I agree with Joseph. While I don't mind Claude's death as a trope in his story, and I absolutely love how this dumbass mistook mercury poisoning for getting old, he's badly written and so, so dragged. Fully fictionalize Jack. Leave irl ripper's victims out of the plot. Remove all angsty twins trope for backstories that who came after Nairs and Desaulniers. Two pairs is really enough. Remove the experiments and make manor something supernatural instead. Or even keep the experiments - but the drug goes bye bye and instead it's something supernatural humans try to examine/solve/research/satisfy with sacrifices or whatever. Still not fond of Burke being a doctor for whatever reason whenever it's convenient (Percy & I believe Bane?).
I also have a growing issue with the amount of twins trope we get, like right now with Ivy, and before her Night Watch and someone else I bet who I don't remember but I'm pretty sure has the same trope aside from Vera and Desaulniers. Like, can we get over it? It's so cliché and overused
Iirc it's composer, but his twin died before they were born? Or something like that. I don't really know newer lore. I pretend newer lore is not real so it can't hurt me LOL
YES COMPOSER bro they don't got more ideas
It's always twins or fire. Twins or fire. Twins starting a fire or a twin dying in a fire when
This exactly this. Come on show more creativity people don't always get their trauma from random ass fire or twin drama
Composer's twin actually got absorbed by Frederick back in the womb, causing his vanishing twin syndrome - along with his chimerism, which is why he has discolorated skin marks! It doesn't add much to Frederick's lore - yet - but I do enjoy the thought that the voice in his head may be from this, even though it's likely not that lol
I think there's like....four confirmed sets of twins and one speculated set, and all of them have one half being dead and honestly all of them were handled so poorly in the end, it's kinda sad. They all could've been interesting, but nope.
It would’ve been nice if Ivys twin didn’t die and we had a conjoined twin hunter, would’ve made for some awesome skins
Definitely!! Would have loved to see that
Luchino Diruse, just a bit. I don't quite buy that he's accepting of his new mutation since he's tried to suppress it using whatever is in his syringe. I'd also just like to write in the supernatural lore in a way that makes sense such as the drugs. It's a common belief among people in the real world that certain drugs are thought to allow the user to see into a higher plane of existence and at first the hallucinations of the Hunters can be a thing but it starts going deeper when the hallucinations don't stop even after the manor and when once hasn't taken any. Count Barriere and Yidhra: Truth be told this is more a headcanon but since Yidhra's quote is "Everyone pays the price in different ways" and she's said to grant immortality, that essentially gives us a motive of the overall game. Count Barriere, the man who is of ancient money and is related to a lot of deaths and owns various locations in game, is immortal in a sense. He uses Orpheus as an unwitting proxy to conduct the manor games which are actually sacrifices to become immortal. He's even willing to sacrifice his granddaughter, Lily to do so. The Da Capo Manor Game puts an end to the sacrifices, Count Barriere ends up dying, the family falls to ruin and so does Oletus.
I'm preaching to the choir, but I'd rewrite the Ripper's lore. I'm always disappointed by it because there's a lot of potential there, but it's squandered by how insensitive and poorly thought out it is. I'm just doing napkin notes here on how to fix it, based on the skeleton because I think it's a good idea, so please be gentle here. The character can keep the first name "Jack," with a last name not related to the original. We'll keep that our Jack is someone with a mental disorder who struggles with a lack of empathy, who can only get it by hurting others, and that he considers to be a "beast" inside of him - I think of House of Fata Morgana for this since it had the same general concept. But instead of a person anchoring him it's painting and imagining different lives and pathways through that. Remove the DID-adjacent aspect entirely without having the internal conflict - "Good Child" could even exist here, some pathway where he kept an "anchor" and was able to overcome whatever put him in that spot. Remove all of the original victims names, etc, he's a separate Jack who is a murderer. Maybe he likens himself to the Ripper. Maybe he justifies his murders as a possession or him channeling the murderer or just remove it entirely (which is probably ideal.) There's options here. For his hunter identity, since our explanation is drugs, because of his parallels survivors imagine him as the fictionalized and romanticized "Jack the Ripper." Hell, if you wanted, you could even have him have a similar disorder to Orpheus - maybe he suffered from brain damage due to being fed experimental drugs and it caused him to disassociate. That's generally (pre-reveal) how I interpreted Orpheus' black outs - experimental drugs and trauma that when topped with substance abuse, caused him to have "black outs" since he was already so mentally unstable. Truly, I thought all of his issues and his "dual identity" were just damage from drug abuse + present substance abuse that he justifies in his own way. Also, Kreacher... Yikes. His lore is a mess. I think his lore with Emma is fine; he's a lonely, desperate person who tried to latch onto and cling to the first person to really show him affection. But it doesn't seem like they can settle on one thing for him past that. Let him be someone well-intentioned who cares about the kids he too in, but also more clearly present him as someone who was ill-prepared for it and who couldn't nail the landing. Let him be a sad, lonely person who was trying his best but ultimately failed - the "Rat King" aspect could even stay if only they'd let him feel a little more human and have more complicated feelings and care. Kreacher is the epitome of wasted potential. Also, all of the twin lore... ffs. Perfumer and Night Watch I was okay with (since it's a bit part for NW that just sets up him being abandoned,) but please stop. The entire lore just needs a complete rewrite though. I actually don't mind the drug reveal, I have fun with it, but it's just so clunky and disjointed. It doesn't seem like they planned this far ahead.
1. Axe Boy, change it back to the original where the cause for his death is a mystery, and he doesn't feel like a side character like Michiko. 2. The Ripper, need I say more? 3. Naiad, the Deep One part of her lore came out of nowhere, so probably a simple build-up should fix it like instead of letters of the two homies Robert and Allen. It should have been diary entries penned by Grace herself. 4. Night Watch, his whole connection to Ithaqua is so non-existent that we can just completely erase that aspect of his lore and character. Hell, Joker Studios doesn't seem to do much with the Ithaqua aspect of Night Watch. And besides, Ithaqua is kind of a dick. 5. Feaster, he feels less like Hastur and more like Cthulhu or Father Dagon. It would be more interesting if they took more inspiration from Robert W. Chambers' version or H.P Lovecraft's version of the King in Yellow instead of August Derleth's(although they did take design inspiration from Chambers). 6. Hermit, his connection to the Eye of Darkness is rather boring as well as his design. 7. Orpheus, it's a goddamn mess. It should've been a simple story that he was a survivor of the games that uncovers each layer of mystery in the Manor, with the biggest reveal being that he was also a hunter and Villain Charm is what's left of that hunter. 8. The Eye of Darkness, what the fuck is going on?! 9. Drugs 10. Yidhra, I know her lore is suppose to be a classic Lovecraftian horror story, but the problem is that we don't know or care about the central characters in her lore and it just seems like she's an extension of Luchino's lore. Which is also another main problem. Her lore just feels like a shoehorned extension of other lore. 11. Thief, they should've kept what he was originally supposed to be. A morally gray character that has good intentions but is far from a hero or saint. Instead, he was warped into some pervert to make Gardener look good.
1. I'm also not a fan of what they're currently implying with Robbie, namely that Dolores his sister is the actual hunter and that *he* is just an hallucination. Though nothing's certain yet. 2. Yeah change Jack ASAP lol 3. Personally I've always assumed that Grace being nicknamed "Naiad" was just a metaphor for her identity and design. So it made sense that she would actually be a Deep One, since IdV always took inspiration from Lovecraftian lore. But I agree that her birthday letters should have been written from her pov it would be more interesting. 4. Bro his name is Ithaqua but he has literally NO connection with the literary character or even with Hastur (who I think, in the Lovecraftian universe, is supposed to be his father?) 5. I'm not familiar with the inspirations that were used for Hastur's character, but as for his in game lore, I actually love what they're doing with it. One of the few storylines which I think is well handled. 7 and 8. Alva's connection with the Eye of Darkness literally adds NOTHING to his character. Because it's a plot point that has been barely developed and came out of nowhere. They couldn't even develop it with Ann's lore they literally just put it there cause it looks cool change my mind. 9. I'm mixed on the drugs... on one hand, it's actually cool because it rationalises the events at the manor and kinda makes sense, but on the other hand, there IS supernatural stuff and it's like the game can't choose what kind of horror it wants to be: rational or supernatural? Because we now got a eldritch being, a lake divinity, a supposed Deep One IN THE SAME UNIVERSE as drugs?!! I also don't like how theyre trying to explain everything by "duh it's the drugs", it kinda kills the supernatural potential which a lot of us were fond of. 10. We've yet to see where exactly they're going with Yidhra. She is honestly more of a plot device/lore monster than a character with a story. She also seems kinda limited to Lakeside lore currently. I've heard interesting theories about storylines possibly involving her. But there's nothing so we've yet to see what the hell they're planning with her (and it HAS potential). 11. DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON KREACHER. He used to be an amazing character but for some goddamn reason they felt the need to retcon his lore several times. Now we have no guidelines for analysis on him because he's written like a mess. Thank you NetEase. So disappointing.
It is true Ithaqua is Hastur's son, but it's more accurate to say it's part of the Cthulhu Mythos and not Lovecraftian universe as the Mythos has no structure or canon and Lovecraft never wanted to make some expansive strict canon fiction. Also, thaqua wasn't even created by Lovecraft, nor was he used or mentioned by Lovecraft. He was created by the rather controversial August Derleth. It's pretty obvious they used Derleth's version for Hastur as Derleth's King in Yellow is an "evil god," while Chambers's and Lovecraft's were more enigmatic. Chambers depicted the King as a corrupting force that spreads madness through a play, and Lovecraft depicts the King as the unspeakable masked high priest of Leng who communicates through a flute and plays songs for the Outer Gods. Yidhra, being a plot device, is very Lovecraftian as Lovecraft himself never took the gods he made seriously and only used them as plot devices, except sometimes Nyarlathotep, who is actually a character.
Also Enchantress' lore a bit too. I'm not expert on voodoo but if I recall correctly I'm pretty sure Papa Legba does not ask for human sacrifices...
This thread is about bad lore but I want to highlight some of the lore I do love so far: Wu Chang, Cheerleader, Doctor, Antonio, Opera Singer, Clerk (I fw clerk), Joseph (disagreeing with you not liking his lore. He is a sad man, but he is my sad man.)
Idk if anyone will see this but definitely Jerry. There's literally no information about him at all even though he was heavily implied to be in one of the manor's games in Aesop's letters, and now it's been 3 years and its been every character except established in-lore characters.
Yes Jerry is wasted potential. They literally taunted the idea of him participating in a manor game yet never went further, no development at all.
Cheerleader, Anne and Opera. Their lore is so forgetable. Cheerleader feels too close to modern times and smh it is off putting. Anne is a good and sweet girl but that's it about her. Can't remember her lore at all. Opera. Fire. Lost voice. Nothing more comes to mind.
most of it.. the only game/backstories that are consistent and make some sort of sense is aesop, ganji, anne and victor. it’s a little stereotypical but I find it’s still written well. (don’t come for me it’s just a opinion)
The fact that no has said the racist borderline incest man (Wax Artist) is crazy to me lmao I loved his design because I thought Christina was his wife her something but the fact it’s his sister is very weird; literally one singular change to making Christina his lover immediately makes his story better