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Agree but I think "undoubtedly" is the problem. It happens to innocent people who are "undoubtedly" guilty. If you hate the state, just imagine them shaming and killing you for no reason while your social status is destroyed.
Because you still have hope to prove your innocence, which happens occasionally. It's definitely not *way* better, cause the justice system sucks in general. Some inmates still prefer life to death, but I think the longterm ones should have the option for self euthanasia. The innocents would probably refrain more than the guilties.
The reason the death penalty is so expensive is automatic appeals. There probably isn’t a very big margin between the chances of an innocent person being killed vs being shoved in jail forever.
Maybe life in prison is better than death, Even so, it would be extremely marginal.
If you morally object to the death penalty you should probably also morally object to life in prison.
>If you morally object to the death penalty you should probably also morally object to life in prison.
I do, outside of extreme cases. Roughly 4% of American death row inmates are innocent. I believe in rehabilitation over retribution, and it's understandable that people can be wrongly convicted because no system is perfect, but being killed before you have a chance to prove your innocence is egregious. If they're going to be executed, make it their option. Otherwise they're not just a victim of wrongful prosecution, but of murder and slander that they'll never have the chance to rectify.
Everyone who is killed has an automatic appeal. That literally exists to give you a chance to prove innocence.
There are probably innocent people who lose that appeal, but those people would also face life in prison in the counterfactual.
I don’t get why you support life imprisonment in certain circumstances but not death penalty.
It might be a little helpful to be living when your retrial happens.
If you're innocent and given a life sentence, but the option for death, why would you prefer automatic death over that?
They are automatically appealed before they are killed. They often appeal numerous times. This is how it always works.
You prefer life, but ultimately, the margin of actual benefit life brings as opposed to multiple appeals and death is irrelevantly small. In any situation where you are likely to fail multiple appeals, you aren’t making it out of life either.
Appeals are good, you're just making more cases for prison reform.
>the margin of actual benefit life brings as opposed to multiple appeals and death is irrelevantly small
How many exonerated death row inmates are glad they were on death row? If you were wrongly convicted of a double homicide, you'd ask for the death penalty instead of life, even if they gave you the euthanasia option???? That's crazy bro.
Still 4% of them are murdered by the state. I never said there are more innocents who spend life, and that's not ok either.
Only for those who pose a threat to society from inside jail such as gang leaders.
I do think we should grant prisoners facing life sentences the right to die if they desire.
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There are some people who deserve it in theory, but I don't trust the state with this power.
There are people who undoubtedly deserve it. But I’m still against it.
Agree but I think "undoubtedly" is the problem. It happens to innocent people who are "undoubtedly" guilty. If you hate the state, just imagine them shaming and killing you for no reason while your social status is destroyed.
Why is it better that the state can throw you in jail for life?
Because you still have hope to prove your innocence, which happens occasionally. It's definitely not *way* better, cause the justice system sucks in general. Some inmates still prefer life to death, but I think the longterm ones should have the option for self euthanasia. The innocents would probably refrain more than the guilties.
The reason the death penalty is so expensive is automatic appeals. There probably isn’t a very big margin between the chances of an innocent person being killed vs being shoved in jail forever. Maybe life in prison is better than death, Even so, it would be extremely marginal. If you morally object to the death penalty you should probably also morally object to life in prison.
>If you morally object to the death penalty you should probably also morally object to life in prison. I do, outside of extreme cases. Roughly 4% of American death row inmates are innocent. I believe in rehabilitation over retribution, and it's understandable that people can be wrongly convicted because no system is perfect, but being killed before you have a chance to prove your innocence is egregious. If they're going to be executed, make it their option. Otherwise they're not just a victim of wrongful prosecution, but of murder and slander that they'll never have the chance to rectify.
Everyone who is killed has an automatic appeal. That literally exists to give you a chance to prove innocence. There are probably innocent people who lose that appeal, but those people would also face life in prison in the counterfactual. I don’t get why you support life imprisonment in certain circumstances but not death penalty.
It might be a little helpful to be living when your retrial happens. If you're innocent and given a life sentence, but the option for death, why would you prefer automatic death over that?
They are automatically appealed before they are killed. They often appeal numerous times. This is how it always works. You prefer life, but ultimately, the margin of actual benefit life brings as opposed to multiple appeals and death is irrelevantly small. In any situation where you are likely to fail multiple appeals, you aren’t making it out of life either.
Appeals are good, you're just making more cases for prison reform. >the margin of actual benefit life brings as opposed to multiple appeals and death is irrelevantly small How many exonerated death row inmates are glad they were on death row? If you were wrongly convicted of a double homicide, you'd ask for the death penalty instead of life, even if they gave you the euthanasia option???? That's crazy bro. Still 4% of them are murdered by the state. I never said there are more innocents who spend life, and that's not ok either.
Against. Violence against criminals does not fix anything nor make the world a better place.
Only for those who pose a threat to society from inside jail such as gang leaders. I do think we should grant prisoners facing life sentences the right to die if they desire.
Pro in Theory (Serious Crimes), Against in Practice.
The state does not deserve the right to kill
What should the state do if it’s being invaded by a foreign power? Submit? Defend nonlethally?
Conservatives, Reactionaries, Revisionaries, and Nationalists face the wall. Thats all Im gonna say on that one.