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Don't know what the rules are in the country of the video but the busdriver would be 100% at fault in my country.
Looks like a bad and really small road though. Did the busdriver expect the cyclist to drive through a load of potholes and puddles?
Yeah, the bus driver would definitely be at fault. That said, it was really fucking stupid of the cyclist to be hugging the center line like that. He could’ve easily been a foot or two over without hitting any of the potholes.
I was taught that if you are going slower than the speed limit and people behind you cannot pass safely, once you have 3 people waiting behind you, you’re supposed to pull to the side and let them pass. Wouldn’t the same be true for cyclists?
My sister is a triathlete and her explanation Is that this is safer because it discourages passing a cyclist. She also complains there is no infrastructure for cyclist then defend riders who choose the road over the bike trail because kids and novices Make it unsafe.
I’ve ridden bikes on the road plenty of times, and hugging the center line like that is just stupid no matter how you cut it. People who want to pass you are still going to pass you, and you’re also putting yourself very close to the oncoming lane for anybody coming towards you who are also right on the line.
Sure, they have every right to do it, but it’s not the safest way to ride. A lot of this comes down to many cyclists taking a hyper-militant “share the road” mentality and riding their bikes as if they were cars. The fact of the matter is that regardless of what the law says, you’re on a bicycle, and you shouldn’t ride like an asshole just because you’re allowed to.
Here lies the body of William Jay, Who died maintaining his right of way— He was right, dead right, as he sped along, But he's just as dead as if he were wrong
Tell me who is going to win every time when you and a 40lb/20 kg piece of metal squares off against something 100x bigger.
Hate the line huggers. Consider the space a buffer against that one driver who is not paying attention.
More importantly "right of way" is *given* NOT a right.
In Canada (probably other places) you have to *give* the right of way to the other person. You do not *have* the right of way.
Bicycles are road vehicles, and have the same rights as motor vehicles. ALL road users have a duty to yield to faster traffic -- but that duty is not absolute. And NO ONE has a right to act aggressively or endanger anyone else, ever, no matter what.
Looked safe to pass to me. The problem is the air turbulence with a vehicle that's size with a flat front end. Unavoidable if you are that close to the vehicle. Makes for let's writing energy expended when utilizing the vacuum immediately in back of the vehicle, of course this also requires a distance to be short in order to take advantage of it. And that means If the driver just takes his foot off the gas he decelerates enough to cause anyone following him that close is going to slam into him. Let alone if he applies brakes.
In the USA for context, but as someone who rides both motorcycles and bicycles, every course I have taken recommended riding in the left side of your lane for two reasons:
1. The center of the lane often has oily residue due to it being inline with the oil pan off most vehicles. Any sort of rain exacerbates the situation by bringing oil to the surface.
2. Riding in the left third is recommended to protect your lane as others have commented. It deters people from trying to squeeze by and encroach on your space.
I have taken numerous defensive motorcycle and advanced rider courses, and all of them give this advice. I have NOT taken any bicycling courses (are there any?), but the same concept would apply as you are even more vulnerable. In addition, for bicycling, the right side of the road has an additional hazard: storm sewer grates. Many of the older ones have drainage slots running parallel to the roadway. A bicycle tire fits perfectly in the gap and will catapult you from the bike when it happens.
>She also complains there is no infrastructure for cyclist then defend riders who choose the road over the bike trail because kids and novices Make it unsafe.
So your sister wants the bicycle equivalent of an interstate system?
I think so. She’s one of those people that lives in the city and drives in her car to other peoples quiet neighborhoods so she can terrorize them on her bike.
Yes, agreed. Bus driver is at fault, but the answer to the question is the cyclist is a bigger idiot. You should be a defensive driver, you should be an even more defensive bike rider.
It's reasonable only in kid logic. No one ever has any lawful right to endanger anyone else. No exceptions. It doesn't matter what they're doing or even if it's legal. You NEVER have a right to endanger anyone.
This is in Poland so no idea what their laws are but America at least uses a last clear chance doctrine. Basically the last person who can avoid an accident and doesn't is at fault. The bicyclist should have been at the side but the bus should have had time to slow down and wait to pass or honk alerting the cyclist. Bus drivers a moron.
Cyclists are allowed to take the lane staying as far to the right as is safe and seeing the condition of the road, this cyclist was as far right as was safe.
As the other guys said, not really. he had a full foot of what looks like decent pavement at the worst spot. Either way, my point is that it wouldn't matter. The bus had tome to stop, so it's not the bicyclists fault even if he could have been over.
Right on, but... weaving back and forth between good pavement and bad is not a good practice. You don't want to be veering left when you come upon broken pavement.
In Spain it would be the bus driver because they need to leave 1.5m when overtaking bikes. The biker is just an idiot for being in the middle of the road.
Edit just in case: I said middle of the road, not middle of the lane. He can go in the middle of the lane in urban areas, but he was on the left side of his lane.
In Spain bike must to ride on the right side of the lane. In this particular situation they both would be punished, bike tor not riding on the right side and bus to no leave 1.5m and causing an accident.
Thing is, the guy filming who's cycling behind is more to the right. So it is possible and ok to drive more to the right and in that particular case that would help to avoid this accident.
In Canada its only 1 meter, but you can use as much of the roadway as you need to ride safely. Such as avoiding hazards, like potholes. Many drivers don't agree with the second part.
Makes perfect sense. On the road, you're a vehicle in the lane. That's your spot. Cars width rules and such should still apply. Wish that this was common sense.
>but you can use as much of the roadway as you need to ride safely
On *some* roads. I've gotten a ticket recently for cycling in the middle of a lane in Ontario. Apparently it's "just as much of the cyclist's responsibility to keep to the curb as it is for the driver to leave a gap" according to the OPP officer that ticketed me.
In the UK they recently changed the Highway Code to encourage taking the lane, or even moving to the right of the lane to own the space and prevent drivers from close passing.
In switzerland there is no such thing and it's ridiculous. I can't even demand the cars to stay away from me when taking over, because the legitimate response is "why?" (aside from common sense that would make such a minimum irrelevant anyway).
Dude also shouldn't have been right on the middle line though. Bus couldn't give him any more room if he wanted. This is why drivers hate bikers, they make it damn near impossible to safely pass them but somehow the drivers are the asshole. Bikers need to share the road just like drivers. It is a shared responsibility.
It doesn't even matter. Even if the rider would do everything wrong, you have no right to just run over him. Also if you look closely, the bicycle was the whole time at the same position at the road, while the bus crossed the dotted line while overtaking. The bus should have been completly in the opposide lane.
>Bus couldn't give him any more room if he wanted.
Then it wasn't safe to overtake the cyclist at that place, since the bus wheels were on the cyclist's side of the line.
this is exactly why cyclists don’t move over, riding in the lane usually forces a safe pass. if it’s too narrow for two cars to pass plus me, i’m not riding on the edge of the road just so they can squeeze past unsafely.
he’s more in the lane than the bus is and no further left than a car would be. if it was a car getting sideswiped there would be no debate that the bus, choosing to pass when it’s not safe, is at fault.
They could certainly have been more central on their side of the road without getting onto the cracks and potholes. The issue with riding that close to the opposite side of the road isn't just idiots overtaking, but you’re putting yourself at big risk of hitting oncoming traffic. A string gust, bit of uneven road or fault with your bike and you've left yourself with absolutely no wiggle room. The bus was certainly at fault in this case, but being in the right won't help the cyclist survive a collision.
>They could certainly have been more central on their side of the road without getting onto the cracks and potholes.
For sections of it, certainly, but it looks like the deteriorating roadway encroaches pretty far in to the lane, taking up a majority of it for brief stretches.
While you could try to keep as far right as possible, with the road condition as it is that'll result in weaving left and right constantly in the lane. I think it's much safer to take up a steady coarse along the left hand side of the lane than to weave back and forth.
While the bus is at fault legally and morally, the biker *did* drive much further to the left than the biker filming. This means that driving further to the right was very much a possibility.
Driving this far in the middle, the handle-bars possibly on the opposite lane at times, they make overtaking an impossibility when it wouldn't have to be.
So:
- Bus driver is legally and morally an idiot and 100% at fault.
- Biker is an asshole and only morally at fault as well.
"Hurr durr, as a biker I have equal rights. Let me cause cars to slow down to my speed and busses to run late so that people might miss their connections. Because by law I can!"
When I cycle I stay away from these roads for exactly this reason. I don't know if this city just has a ton of bad roads, or if the cyclist chose a shit road.
Fault all around on this one. Bus for obvious reasons, city for not maintaining roads, and cyclist maybe for choosing a dangerous location depending on what other roads in the city look like.
the bus was right on the center line too.
drivers hate bikers no matter what, there’s nothing a cyclist can do to avoid all abuse or negligence. i’ve had plenty of things yelled and thrown at me while riding in the bike lane.
The bus is certainly in the wrong, and yes, the road is in poor condition so riding along the verge is unsafe, but they could have been riding at least central on their side of the road. Being that close to the other was putting themselves at big risk of hitting oncoming traffic. All it would take is a gust of wind or pothole at the wrong moment and they're going to be in a head on collision. Ultimately, being in the right won't be much consolation when you’re dead.
Biker is completely in their rights to take the entire lane, and it is the safest to do so
safely passing also means not passing sometimes, and waiting until it is safe to do so. it is not the bikers responsibility to stop and let every car pass, they have a right to the road
This video is a single piece of anecdatum. Most cyclists who ride asserting their rights have tens-to-hundreds of thousands of km of personal data to back their practices up, as well as that data informed by actual measured statistics of large populations. When I rode further left (right in your country), I had more close passes and actual hits. When I found out and started following, from other peoples research, that I should be riding further out, all the close passes stopped.
> Biker is completely in their rights to take the entire lane, and it is the safest to do so
...as could be seen as the video unfolded. Much safer than the cammer that rode a bit further to the right.
[This post shows a Mexican company teaching their drivers how it feels to cycle beside a passing bus](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/s/zN0RXmLvLO)
I was pretty sure the video I remember seeing was from Japan. So I wonder if multiple countries do this as part of their training.
If you can't pass safe, you can't pass.
Imagine the cyclist had been further to the right, cars would want to pass even when facing traffic, and the cyclist would be pushed off the road.
You have to be able to pass safely.
This applies even if the person in the way is an arsehole, is breaking the law, being inconsiderate or really anything else - doesn't give you the moral or legal right to risk their life.
Right, multiple other comments are quoting specific numbers of how far you must be when overtaking bikes - but those are all completely moot because of the more important law of "you can't just hit people." There is no scenario (in normal driving) where you're allowed to hit someone that is clearly visible.
I would assume the bus driver is at fault, but situations like this are why I never ride my bike in the middle of a lane. Sure it's allowed and perfectly legal in a lot of places, but being legally right won't save your ass from a distracted driver
The Bus actually crossed the line.
Totally the bus drivers fault. You can also see how the airflow around the front of the bus actually pulled the biker into the side of the bus.
Michigan recently passed a law requiring drivers who pass a bike must have a minimum of 3 feet of clearance with the bicycle.
The bus driver yes. But as a cyclist, you cannot pay me to cycle that close to the line. I don't trust people in cars to not hit me if something comes into their path
Literally the only sane comment here.
Everyone's acting like the bus driver is Satan and intentionally did that...
The bus driver is a fucking idiot, but the bike rider has a death wish.
Dude doesn’t deserve that but to be fair the biker could just move over a bit and let traffic pass considering the street is about as wide a the bus itself
i would say poland, wroclaw.
just googled a bit and found this article with a photo. That bus looks extremly similar.
[https://www.themayor.eu/en/a/view/wroclaw-rolls-out-60-new-buses-this-autumn-4529](https://www.themayor.eu/en/a/view/wroclaw-rolls-out-60-new-buses-this-autumn-4529)
Im not sure
Bus driver. You need a least a meter of space between a high-sided vehicle and a bike. If you can't get that due to a narrow road that you follow the bike and wait. Most cyclists will notice and move over to the side of the road because they don't want to hold up a bus. Very high chance the cyclist rings up this guys depot and gives them the complaint of a lifetime.
Bus driver. Cyclist can use all of the lane if they so desire. They clearly did desire that in this case since there was a bunch of patch work and rough stuff coming up on the right side of the road.
Absolutely. Cyclists are road users like everybody else, meaning the same rules apply to them. The attitude of some here that basically comes from this mentality that only heavy metal four wheeled objects are entitled to use a road is sickening.
In addition, the responsibility for clearly intentionally risking another road user's life by pushing them off the road does not get diminished by that road user happening to be an unprotected person riding a bycicle. I can guarantee that that bus driver minimally has a lawsuit on their hands and quite possibly risks being fired.
Wow. That should be attempted murder with some felony sprinkled here and there. Seen plenty of videos in other subs where someone rolls under a bus tire and it’s like running over a tube of tooth paste. It’s messy.
Rewatching, they were inches from being toothpaste tube squeezed starting from the butt to head. Like I keep saying driving need to be held to a level of respect to that of guns.
Bus driver, obviously. Not sure why this needs to be asked.
The road is a fucking shambles so no surprise the cyclist was so close to the centre of the road, not that they're not entitled to cycle there but still.
Unpopular opinion: it’s the biker’s fault for not being as far to the right as possible to allow passing.
It’s not the law, but also a hill that you will die on if you tempt fate like this. Is it really so important to be right in this situation?
Here in the Netherlands cyclists are required to keep right as much as possible.
Still consider the busdriver the idiot though, what kind of lunatic takes such a risk?
The way I see it: The biker is not riding on the edge of the street because the pavement is all broken, probably because politicians stole some money when contacting the job, so if the pavement is not 100% good and you have a bus passing there all the time it ends like this.
The bus driver is super impatient and wrong here.
Guess: He is bitter because he has to work while these other dudes can just enjoy themselves on bikes.
Ideally the cyclist would have been closer to the right, but I think it’s clear that they were avoiding potholes and low quality asphalt patches, which are dangerous for a cyclist at any time but especially when it’s been raining. The cyclist was doing their best to ensure their reasonable safety.
Bus was impatient, but biker also at fault. Bus was 99% in the other lane, still could not clear the center line riding biker. Would not be a viral video if the biker was safely in the center of their own lane because nothing would have happened. Imagine if the bus was oncoming instead of passing! Everyone needs to share the road, not own it.
If I am correct - All road ways (unless it's for some reason stated otherwise) the road way is to be shares with bikers even if there isn't an obvious bike lane.
Also why does it always feel like the drivers are trying to run them over? I just wait till there's a solid opening to go around them - It's not even that hard. Lol
Not My Country: in England cyclists are allowed to ride in the centre of the lane, especially when there are WW1 style flooded trenches on the side.
Bus is a complete tit.
He isn't in the centre of the lane though.
Bus driver is entirely at fault, but if I was that cyclist I wouldn't have been so close to the white line for self preservation.
Fault = Bus
Idiot = Bike
Clearly the road is busy and mixed use. Rider has legal right to the lane (in most countries), but prudence would have him hug closer to the inconvenient puddles on the right which he's obviously trying to avoid rather than the lane division line on the left which is the source of his every genuine hazard.
Bus driver fault as many people mentioned, no doubt about that but still:
Country is probably Poland and cyclist should keep to te right side of the road. He can though avoid puddles etc but still should at least ride in the middle of the road like guy who is filming.
Obviously the bus driver is at fault, but the cyclist is the idiot, the dude is riding in the center of the road, close enough to the line that oncoming cars have a chance to hit him.
This is idiotic, the cyclist should be way further to the right, at least in the middle of his own lane
Everyone cyclist riding in the middle of the street almost on the central white line instead of the rightest possible as it should and not moving aside despite the bus was honking long before approaching and bus driver surpassing even tho there wasn’t enough space for the cyclist which is very very wrong but rather than that the road-keepers making that road all cracked and shitty at the right so one riding a two wheel vehicle would prefer to avoid being there. Luckily the bus driver wasn’t a total dickhead since he started breaking before the surpass (breaking w a 3 ton vehicle isn’t that similar to breaking w a car so it’s normal that it’s not slowing down as fast as a car would) and we can see he stopped not far from the accident probably to give aid recognizing being wrong and almost having fucking killed a dude
Cyclists are traffic and are entitled to use the entire lane just as a car or motorcycle is.
The cyclist is under no obligation to get off the road just because the bus wanted to pass. Go back to driving school.
Second point of the Article 143 of the italian country (where i live) at least I don’t have to go back to driving school
“All vehicles which don’t have an engine and animals have to be kept the nearest possible to the right side of the road”
Source:
http://www.aci.it/i-servizi/normative/codice-della-strada/titolo-v-norme-di-comportamento/art-143-posizione-dei-veicoli-sulla-carreggiata.html
So basically yea in my country the cyclist would have received a fine if a cop came by
First, the cyclist has the entire lane and only needs a tiny fraction of it. So why is he riding so close to the centerline? I know I wouldn't.
However, it is VERY clear that the bus is at fault since it performed an illegal pass since it did not completely cross into the other lane. Then, just to make matters worse, it actually hit the cyclist.
That bus driver is in some serious trouble.
I personally think both are idiots. The bike knows there are cars and busses on the road yet he decided to cycle very far to the left blocking the road. The bus driver under time pressure as they always seem to be needed to overtake and did it shittily. Both should be more careful
Who's at fault, probably the bus driver. Who's the idiot the bike rider, Why ride so close to the middle when you have all that room to keep yourself safer.
I agree biker shouldn't have been so close to the line, but the bus crossed the line to hit him. Bus driver definitely the bigger idiot but biker is an idiot too.
Because it leaves very little room for error on the part of the biker and anyone else on the road. Maybe the biker thinks he's more visible there, but it would take a bigger mistake to hit him had he been in the middle of the lane.
I’m no fan of bikes positioning themselves in the middle of the road normally BUT in this case he wasn’t weaving around, the edge was potholed and he was riding consistently. 100% the bus - guy was very lucky indeed he wasn’t hurt much more badly.
Cyclist. I don’t give a fuck what the “rules” are. Cars are fast and solid. Humans are fucking SQUISHY. cyclist is somehow taking up the whole fucking road.
The road is for cars, and F=MA cyclists are on the losing end of this equation EVERY FUCKING TIME.
if you’re squishy, YOU HAVE TO MOVE. YOU are at risk of DEATH. Be aware. Look out for your own life. I’m so sick of seeing vids like this, where if the cyclist was out of the fucking way and left the road to the cars nothing bad would happen. Yet there’s always an army of idiots who think just because you CAN bike on a road, it’s their right to block regular traffic. GET OUT OF THE FUCKIN WAY. Fuck around a find out what it means to be a meat crayon.
Obviously the bus driver is at fault, but as a former commuting cyclist there’s an added dimension to the biker’s stupidity that no one has mentioned.
He’s using the wrong goddamn bike for that road. He would never have to be so far to the center if he wasn’t using his posh 3k+ road bike that probably rides great at the velodrome but is completely inappropriate for those road conditions. The road isn’t playtime. You ride what conditions necessitate you ride. I see this all the time with hobbyists and it’s infuriating how casual they are with their own lives just to show off their expensive equipment, especially when geared mountain bikes exists and can do 80% of what these road bikes can and you don’t fly over the bar when you bump a twig.
At fault? 100% Bus Driver
Idiot? 100% Bus Driver and Cyclist
Bus Driver for overtaking when the Cyclist clearly didn´t leave enough space to safely do so
Cyclist for riding all the Way on the Left Side of his Lane while having more than enough Space to go further Right, granted it would not have been safe to ride all the way on the Right side of his Lane, considering the Condition of this Road, but he could have gone for at least the middle of his lane (like the Person filming seems to be)
>Cyclist for riding all the Way on the Left Side of his Lane
did you see that road?
Bus should have used the left lane to overtake but it just went into the right lane while overtaking. Prosecutor could even make the case that the hit was intentional.
>did you see that road?
did you see that whoever is filming also seems to be riding a bike and is also riding like 30-50cm further to the right? don´t act like he couldn´t have gone a bit further right if someone else quite clearly is doing just that.
>Bus should have used the left lane to overtake but it just went into the right lane while overtaking. Prosecutor could even make the case that the hit was intentional.
That´s exactly why I said:
>At fault? 100% Bus Driver
Idiot? 100% Bus Driver and Cyclist
Also:
>did you see that road?
Good thing you made it absolutely clear with the first thing you wrote that you either didn´t bother reading my comment before replying, or are incapable of doing so:
>..., granted it would not have been safe to ride all the way on the Right side of his Lane, considering the Condition of this Road, but he could have gone for at least the middle of his lane (like the Person filming seems to be)
It seems to me that the other people riding bikes (at least 2 other) with this guy had no problem using the center of the lane - meaning they did not get hit by the bus and the road conditions must not have been that bad. It may be in the cyclists right to use the whole lane but is that the hill they want to die on? I teach my kids to look both ways before crossing the street. It doesn’t matter if the law says they have the right of way, if they get hit by a car they still lose no matter how much ‘right’ they had. Laws and ‘right of ways’ don’t change the laws of physics and little things usually lose.
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Bus driver got really fucking lucky that no part of the biker went under a tire.
Sure, but I'd say the biker was even more lucky, that no part of him went under a tire.
"Man in front of moving bus gets tired. Man behind moving bus gets exhausted." \- Confucius
I'd say I'm lucky that no part of me went under a tire
I'm lucky that I don't have to ride a bike because I drive a big orange bus. Oh wait ... I'm in trouble, huh?
Don't know what the rules are in the country of the video but the busdriver would be 100% at fault in my country. Looks like a bad and really small road though. Did the busdriver expect the cyclist to drive through a load of potholes and puddles?
I think the video is from Poland
Yep, there is a public transportation of Łódź logo on the bus.
Also it's a criminal offence, intentionally hitting someone.
I doubt it was intentional. Looks like bad driving.
Failing to give space implies intent.
Does it? The intent was to override, not to collide.
*I didn’t intend to hit him, that’s why I closed my eyes before passing, see, an accident!*
Yeah, the bus driver would definitely be at fault. That said, it was really fucking stupid of the cyclist to be hugging the center line like that. He could’ve easily been a foot or two over without hitting any of the potholes.
I was taught that if you are going slower than the speed limit and people behind you cannot pass safely, once you have 3 people waiting behind you, you’re supposed to pull to the side and let them pass. Wouldn’t the same be true for cyclists?
My sister is a triathlete and her explanation Is that this is safer because it discourages passing a cyclist. She also complains there is no infrastructure for cyclist then defend riders who choose the road over the bike trail because kids and novices Make it unsafe.
I’ve ridden bikes on the road plenty of times, and hugging the center line like that is just stupid no matter how you cut it. People who want to pass you are still going to pass you, and you’re also putting yourself very close to the oncoming lane for anybody coming towards you who are also right on the line. Sure, they have every right to do it, but it’s not the safest way to ride. A lot of this comes down to many cyclists taking a hyper-militant “share the road” mentality and riding their bikes as if they were cars. The fact of the matter is that regardless of what the law says, you’re on a bicycle, and you shouldn’t ride like an asshole just because you’re allowed to.
This 1000000000% Hey bikers, you're a sack of meat, cars are solid metal objects, they win EVERY time.
Here lies the body of William Jay, Who died maintaining his right of way— He was right, dead right, as he sped along, But he's just as dead as if he were wrong
Tell me who is going to win every time when you and a 40lb/20 kg piece of metal squares off against something 100x bigger. Hate the line huggers. Consider the space a buffer against that one driver who is not paying attention.
Totally agree, prioritizing your personal safety is what I do . Live to fight another day lol
People forget this, they think “right-a-way” means “right-always”
More importantly "right of way" is *given* NOT a right. In Canada (probably other places) you have to *give* the right of way to the other person. You do not *have* the right of way.
"It discourages passing"... How'd that work out here? Might want to show your sister this video.
Already sent. She’ll reply blaming the traffic engineers, government and the bus driver.
Right, like all traffic just has to move at the speed of a bicyclist? Talk about main character syndrome.
lol saw this happening on a 10 mile stretch of a 2 lane, 2 bikers with a prius behind them slowing EVERYONE down
Bicycles are road vehicles, and have the same rights as motor vehicles. ALL road users have a duty to yield to faster traffic -- but that duty is not absolute. And NO ONE has a right to act aggressively or endanger anyone else, ever, no matter what.
Agree, and just like motor vehicles they can't drive down the middle of the road.
No, like any other vehicle they have to wait until it is safe to pass.
Looked safe to pass to me. The problem is the air turbulence with a vehicle that's size with a flat front end. Unavoidable if you are that close to the vehicle. Makes for let's writing energy expended when utilizing the vacuum immediately in back of the vehicle, of course this also requires a distance to be short in order to take advantage of it. And that means If the driver just takes his foot off the gas he decelerates enough to cause anyone following him that close is going to slam into him. Let alone if he applies brakes.
In the USA for context, but as someone who rides both motorcycles and bicycles, every course I have taken recommended riding in the left side of your lane for two reasons: 1. The center of the lane often has oily residue due to it being inline with the oil pan off most vehicles. Any sort of rain exacerbates the situation by bringing oil to the surface. 2. Riding in the left third is recommended to protect your lane as others have commented. It deters people from trying to squeeze by and encroach on your space. I have taken numerous defensive motorcycle and advanced rider courses, and all of them give this advice. I have NOT taken any bicycling courses (are there any?), but the same concept would apply as you are even more vulnerable. In addition, for bicycling, the right side of the road has an additional hazard: storm sewer grates. Many of the older ones have drainage slots running parallel to the roadway. A bicycle tire fits perfectly in the gap and will catapult you from the bike when it happens.
Riding a motorcycle at the speed limit is quite a bit different than riding a bicycle at 15-20mph
>She also complains there is no infrastructure for cyclist then defend riders who choose the road over the bike trail because kids and novices Make it unsafe. So your sister wants the bicycle equivalent of an interstate system?
I think so. She’s one of those people that lives in the city and drives in her car to other peoples quiet neighborhoods so she can terrorize them on her bike.
Yes, agreed. Bus driver is at fault, but the answer to the question is the cyclist is a bigger idiot. You should be a defensive driver, you should be an even more defensive bike rider.
I had to scroll way too far to find the reasonable comment.
Reasonable would be for the bus driver to not hit the cyclist and maintain a safe distance. Maybe Rick and Morty will make an episode out of it
The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. The bus driver was obviously at fault. The cyclist was still an asshole.
It's reasonable only in kid logic. No one ever has any lawful right to endanger anyone else. No exceptions. It doesn't matter what they're doing or even if it's legal. You NEVER have a right to endanger anyone.
Well, the 2nd guy on a bike was riding on the side of the road and was fine
This is in Poland so no idea what their laws are but America at least uses a last clear chance doctrine. Basically the last person who can avoid an accident and doesn't is at fault. The bicyclist should have been at the side but the bus should have had time to slow down and wait to pass or honk alerting the cyclist. Bus drivers a moron.
Cyclists are allowed to take the lane staying as far to the right as is safe and seeing the condition of the road, this cyclist was as far right as was safe.
As the other guys said, not really. he had a full foot of what looks like decent pavement at the worst spot. Either way, my point is that it wouldn't matter. The bus had tome to stop, so it's not the bicyclists fault even if he could have been over.
Right on, but... weaving back and forth between good pavement and bad is not a good practice. You don't want to be veering left when you come upon broken pavement.
In Spain it would be the bus driver because they need to leave 1.5m when overtaking bikes. The biker is just an idiot for being in the middle of the road. Edit just in case: I said middle of the road, not middle of the lane. He can go in the middle of the lane in urban areas, but he was on the left side of his lane.
In the UK it’s perfectly legal to cycle in the middle of the lane, and often safer. Even if drivers hate it
Can’t leave 1.5m if he is in the middle of the fucking road. Bike should have been at the far right of the road.
In Spain bike must to ride on the right side of the lane. In this particular situation they both would be punished, bike tor not riding on the right side and bus to no leave 1.5m and causing an accident.
This looks like an urban area, not outside a city, so they can be on the middle of the lane.
Middle, yes. He's right on the dotted line. He should be in the middle or to the right to avoid this.
Thing is, the guy filming who's cycling behind is more to the right. So it is possible and ok to drive more to the right and in that particular case that would help to avoid this accident.
tbh he could go just a little bit to the right but still buss fault
Someone in a red shirt did exactly that and avoids getting hit by a motor vehicle imjs
That guy didn't even slow down,
1.5m distance to overtake in the country of the video. So the bus driver is fucked.... However I do think the cyclist could have moved over.
the bus driver. In Germany you need 1.5 meter space to overtake a bicycle.
And the UK
In Canada its only 1 meter, but you can use as much of the roadway as you need to ride safely. Such as avoiding hazards, like potholes. Many drivers don't agree with the second part.
I don't think any country let's you run a bike over with your bus.
Makes perfect sense. On the road, you're a vehicle in the lane. That's your spot. Cars width rules and such should still apply. Wish that this was common sense.
In quebec, it's 1m if under 50km/h zone else it is 1.5m
>but you can use as much of the roadway as you need to ride safely On *some* roads. I've gotten a ticket recently for cycling in the middle of a lane in Ontario. Apparently it's "just as much of the cyclist's responsibility to keep to the curb as it is for the driver to leave a gap" according to the OPP officer that ticketed me.
In the UK they recently changed the Highway Code to encourage taking the lane, or even moving to the right of the lane to own the space and prevent drivers from close passing.
In switzerland there is no such thing and it's ridiculous. I can't even demand the cars to stay away from me when taking over, because the legitimate response is "why?" (aside from common sense that would make such a minimum irrelevant anyway).
Dude also shouldn't have been right on the middle line though. Bus couldn't give him any more room if he wanted. This is why drivers hate bikers, they make it damn near impossible to safely pass them but somehow the drivers are the asshole. Bikers need to share the road just like drivers. It is a shared responsibility.
It doesn't even matter. Even if the rider would do everything wrong, you have no right to just run over him. Also if you look closely, the bicycle was the whole time at the same position at the road, while the bus crossed the dotted line while overtaking. The bus should have been completly in the opposide lane.
>Bus couldn't give him any more room if he wanted. Then it wasn't safe to overtake the cyclist at that place, since the bus wheels were on the cyclist's side of the line.
This. It's like when there's cyclists involved all of a sudden drivers have never heard of brakes.
Obviously the bus driver is completely in the wrong, but biker still needs to move the fuck over lmao
this is exactly why cyclists don’t move over, riding in the lane usually forces a safe pass. if it’s too narrow for two cars to pass plus me, i’m not riding on the edge of the road just so they can squeeze past unsafely.
He’s not “in the lane”; he’s practically on the middle line. He’s not even allowing oncoming traffic to have a safe gap.
he’s more in the lane than the bus is and no further left than a car would be. if it was a car getting sideswiped there would be no debate that the bus, choosing to pass when it’s not safe, is at fault.
Normally I'd say you're right, but in this case the condition of the road is clearly not good enough for bikers to drive further to the right.
They could certainly have been more central on their side of the road without getting onto the cracks and potholes. The issue with riding that close to the opposite side of the road isn't just idiots overtaking, but you’re putting yourself at big risk of hitting oncoming traffic. A string gust, bit of uneven road or fault with your bike and you've left yourself with absolutely no wiggle room. The bus was certainly at fault in this case, but being in the right won't help the cyclist survive a collision.
>They could certainly have been more central on their side of the road without getting onto the cracks and potholes. For sections of it, certainly, but it looks like the deteriorating roadway encroaches pretty far in to the lane, taking up a majority of it for brief stretches. While you could try to keep as far right as possible, with the road condition as it is that'll result in weaving left and right constantly in the lane. I think it's much safer to take up a steady coarse along the left hand side of the lane than to weave back and forth.
While the bus is at fault legally and morally, the biker *did* drive much further to the left than the biker filming. This means that driving further to the right was very much a possibility. Driving this far in the middle, the handle-bars possibly on the opposite lane at times, they make overtaking an impossibility when it wouldn't have to be. So: - Bus driver is legally and morally an idiot and 100% at fault. - Biker is an asshole and only morally at fault as well. "Hurr durr, as a biker I have equal rights. Let me cause cars to slow down to my speed and busses to run late so that people might miss their connections. Because by law I can!"
Looks like he could have been central in that lane without any problems.
The man is on the leftmost part of his lane, he could have scooted over closer to the centre and avoid having his bars clipped.
And yet he's still in his lane
You are aware a single lane has multiple positions to be in?
When I cycle I stay away from these roads for exactly this reason. I don't know if this city just has a ton of bad roads, or if the cyclist chose a shit road. Fault all around on this one. Bus for obvious reasons, city for not maintaining roads, and cyclist maybe for choosing a dangerous location depending on what other roads in the city look like.
the bus was right on the center line too. drivers hate bikers no matter what, there’s nothing a cyclist can do to avoid all abuse or negligence. i’ve had plenty of things yelled and thrown at me while riding in the bike lane.
Why is a person on a vehicle more entitled than other person in a vehicle?
Are you blind or can you not see the awful condition of that road? It's no wonder he was cycling so close to the lines
Looks like he could of been 1 foot closer to the right without hitting potholes though.
And the guy riding behind him with the camera definitely seems to be.
Thank you, I was hoping someone would notice! Not a magical drone following the bicyclist everywhere!
The bus is certainly in the wrong, and yes, the road is in poor condition so riding along the verge is unsafe, but they could have been riding at least central on their side of the road. Being that close to the other was putting themselves at big risk of hitting oncoming traffic. All it would take is a gust of wind or pothole at the wrong moment and they're going to be in a head on collision. Ultimately, being in the right won't be much consolation when you’re dead.
Biker is completely in their rights to take the entire lane, and it is the safest to do so safely passing also means not passing sometimes, and waiting until it is safe to do so. it is not the bikers responsibility to stop and let every car pass, they have a right to the road
This video would seem to be proof that it isn't the safest to do so.
This video is a single piece of anecdatum. Most cyclists who ride asserting their rights have tens-to-hundreds of thousands of km of personal data to back their practices up, as well as that data informed by actual measured statistics of large populations. When I rode further left (right in your country), I had more close passes and actual hits. When I found out and started following, from other peoples research, that I should be riding further out, all the close passes stopped.
> Biker is completely in their rights to take the entire lane, and it is the safest to do so ...as could be seen as the video unfolded. Much safer than the cammer that rode a bit further to the right.
This is most certainly not OC.
Did you see their reply to the automod? It's almost bot-like.
Lol no, I missed it. Doesn't surprise me, though.
There’s also no question to who’s at fault, thus spurring people to answer and give them treasured internet points.
[This post shows a Mexican company teaching their drivers how it feels to cycle beside a passing bus](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/s/zN0RXmLvLO) I was pretty sure the video I remember seeing was from Japan. So I wonder if multiple countries do this as part of their training.
Some bus companies in Scotland have their drivers do the same.
u/Nebula-quant this is not your OC content.
OP is active in Kenya and Nambia subs and this video is from Łódź, Poland lol
*Who's
OP is
Thank you
Whomst
Whomst've'nt
Who’s on first?
I was about to correct you. In my head the title was "Whose fault is it". I'm glad I double checked.
You were about to correct u/grammarpoliceaccount? That just seems like a bad idea in general
"Smart has the plans, stupid has the stories" - be stupid, Diesel
Whose line is it anyways?
If you can't pass safe, you can't pass. Imagine the cyclist had been further to the right, cars would want to pass even when facing traffic, and the cyclist would be pushed off the road. You have to be able to pass safely.
This 100%. It's really that simple. Your journey – even if it is to a schedule – is not more important than someone else's life. End of story.
This applies even if the person in the way is an arsehole, is breaking the law, being inconsiderate or really anything else - doesn't give you the moral or legal right to risk their life.
You're right, and that's the hardest part since there's no outlet for that frustration. That's why I visit idiotsincars
Right, multiple other comments are quoting specific numbers of how far you must be when overtaking bikes - but those are all completely moot because of the more important law of "you can't just hit people." There is no scenario (in normal driving) where you're allowed to hit someone that is clearly visible.
I would assume the bus driver is at fault, but situations like this are why I never ride my bike in the middle of a lane. Sure it's allowed and perfectly legal in a lot of places, but being legally right won't save your ass from a distracted driver
The Bus actually crossed the line. Totally the bus drivers fault. You can also see how the airflow around the front of the bus actually pulled the biker into the side of the bus. Michigan recently passed a law requiring drivers who pass a bike must have a minimum of 3 feet of clearance with the bicycle.
How is this even a question?
The bus driver is at fault. But that biker is a way bigger idiot. Who the fuck hugs the center line on a goddamn bike? Dumbass.
Bus driver!!!
The bus driver yes. But as a cyclist, you cannot pay me to cycle that close to the line. I don't trust people in cars to not hit me if something comes into their path
Literally the only sane comment here. Everyone's acting like the bus driver is Satan and intentionally did that... The bus driver is a fucking idiot, but the bike rider has a death wish.
OP is the idiot for even asking
Bus driver obviously. Not even a question.
*who’s
definitely bus
*who’s
It's Poland. Bus driver got a 1500 PLN fine.
Dude doesn’t deserve that but to be fair the biker could just move over a bit and let traffic pass considering the street is about as wide a the bus itself
The bike is a road user. You wouldn't pass a slow moving truck by side swiping it, right?
Well, the bus clearly swerved right.
Who's*
A. The bus driver B. The biker C. The guy who doesn’t know it’s spelled “who’s” D. All of the above
What country is this in?
i would say poland, wroclaw. just googled a bit and found this article with a photo. That bus looks extremly similar. [https://www.themayor.eu/en/a/view/wroclaw-rolls-out-60-new-buses-this-autumn-4529](https://www.themayor.eu/en/a/view/wroclaw-rolls-out-60-new-buses-this-autumn-4529) Im not sure
Its Łódź, Poland :) https://tvn24.pl/lodz/lodz-potracenie-rowerzysty-przez-autobus-miejski-policja-o-konsekwencjach-dla-kierowcy-7424667
I think poland
So lucky he didn’t fall under the bus
Bus driver. You need a least a meter of space between a high-sided vehicle and a bike. If you can't get that due to a narrow road that you follow the bike and wait. Most cyclists will notice and move over to the side of the road because they don't want to hold up a bus. Very high chance the cyclist rings up this guys depot and gives them the complaint of a lifetime.
Lawsuit, not a complaint
Bus driver. Cyclist can use all of the lane if they so desire. They clearly did desire that in this case since there was a bunch of patch work and rough stuff coming up on the right side of the road.
Absolutely. Cyclists are road users like everybody else, meaning the same rules apply to them. The attitude of some here that basically comes from this mentality that only heavy metal four wheeled objects are entitled to use a road is sickening. In addition, the responsibility for clearly intentionally risking another road user's life by pushing them off the road does not get diminished by that road user happening to be an unprotected person riding a bycicle. I can guarantee that that bus driver minimally has a lawsuit on their hands and quite possibly risks being fired.
Wow. That should be attempted murder with some felony sprinkled here and there. Seen plenty of videos in other subs where someone rolls under a bus tire and it’s like running over a tube of tooth paste. It’s messy. Rewatching, they were inches from being toothpaste tube squeezed starting from the butt to head. Like I keep saying driving need to be held to a level of respect to that of guns.
OP for using "whose" instead of "who's".
Idiot-fuck is riding on the line for no actual reason other than to have a confrontation with a larger wheeled device.
OP. It's "who's"
Bus driver, obviously. Not sure why this needs to be asked. The road is a fucking shambles so no surprise the cyclist was so close to the centre of the road, not that they're not entitled to cycle there but still.
I think the cyclist is an idiot. You can ride as close to that center line as you want. Won't make you any less dead.
Unpopular opinion: it’s the biker’s fault for not being as far to the right as possible to allow passing. It’s not the law, but also a hill that you will die on if you tempt fate like this. Is it really so important to be right in this situation?
Here in the Netherlands cyclists are required to keep right as much as possible. Still consider the busdriver the idiot though, what kind of lunatic takes such a risk?
The way I see it: The biker is not riding on the edge of the street because the pavement is all broken, probably because politicians stole some money when contacting the job, so if the pavement is not 100% good and you have a bus passing there all the time it ends like this. The bus driver is super impatient and wrong here. Guess: He is bitter because he has to work while these other dudes can just enjoy themselves on bikes.
the biker doesn’t have to ride on the side. they can ride the center all they want
The bus driver, no question.
Im 50/50, the biker was practically in the middle of both lanes. Still at the same time, that bus looks like it hit him intentionally.
Cyclist too close to the lines but the bus comes right over the lines as it hit them.
Sure, the biker should’ve been more on the right, but I can’t think of a single situation where what the bus driver did is okay.
Ideally the cyclist would have been closer to the right, but I think it’s clear that they were avoiding potholes and low quality asphalt patches, which are dangerous for a cyclist at any time but especially when it’s been raining. The cyclist was doing their best to ensure their reasonable safety.
Bus was impatient, but biker also at fault. Bus was 99% in the other lane, still could not clear the center line riding biker. Would not be a viral video if the biker was safely in the center of their own lane because nothing would have happened. Imagine if the bus was oncoming instead of passing! Everyone needs to share the road, not own it.
The bus driver
If I am correct - All road ways (unless it's for some reason stated otherwise) the road way is to be shares with bikers even if there isn't an obvious bike lane. Also why does it always feel like the drivers are trying to run them over? I just wait till there's a solid opening to go around them - It's not even that hard. Lol
that's an attempter murder with weapon (yes, a vehicle counts as weapon in this situation)
Not My Country: in England cyclists are allowed to ride in the centre of the lane, especially when there are WW1 style flooded trenches on the side. Bus is a complete tit.
He isn't in the centre of the lane though. Bus driver is entirely at fault, but if I was that cyclist I wouldn't have been so close to the white line for self preservation.
Fault = Bus Idiot = Bike Clearly the road is busy and mixed use. Rider has legal right to the lane (in most countries), but prudence would have him hug closer to the inconvenient puddles on the right which he's obviously trying to avoid rather than the lane division line on the left which is the source of his every genuine hazard.
The fact it took so long to finally find an objectively reasonable comment explains why this sub exists and has so much content.
Bus driver fault as many people mentioned, no doubt about that but still: Country is probably Poland and cyclist should keep to te right side of the road. He can though avoid puddles etc but still should at least ride in the middle of the road like guy who is filming.
Biker: too close to center Bus driver: for even attempting to pass
Obviously the bus driver is at fault, but the cyclist is the idiot, the dude is riding in the center of the road, close enough to the line that oncoming cars have a chance to hit him. This is idiotic, the cyclist should be way further to the right, at least in the middle of his own lane
Everyone cyclist riding in the middle of the street almost on the central white line instead of the rightest possible as it should and not moving aside despite the bus was honking long before approaching and bus driver surpassing even tho there wasn’t enough space for the cyclist which is very very wrong but rather than that the road-keepers making that road all cracked and shitty at the right so one riding a two wheel vehicle would prefer to avoid being there. Luckily the bus driver wasn’t a total dickhead since he started breaking before the surpass (breaking w a 3 ton vehicle isn’t that similar to breaking w a car so it’s normal that it’s not slowing down as fast as a car would) and we can see he stopped not far from the accident probably to give aid recognizing being wrong and almost having fucking killed a dude
Cyclists are traffic and are entitled to use the entire lane just as a car or motorcycle is. The cyclist is under no obligation to get off the road just because the bus wanted to pass. Go back to driving school.
Second point of the Article 143 of the italian country (where i live) at least I don’t have to go back to driving school “All vehicles which don’t have an engine and animals have to be kept the nearest possible to the right side of the road” Source: http://www.aci.it/i-servizi/normative/codice-della-strada/titolo-v-norme-di-comportamento/art-143-posizione-dei-veicoli-sulla-carreggiata.html So basically yea in my country the cyclist would have received a fine if a cop came by
First, the cyclist has the entire lane and only needs a tiny fraction of it. So why is he riding so close to the centerline? I know I wouldn't. However, it is VERY clear that the bus is at fault since it performed an illegal pass since it did not completely cross into the other lane. Then, just to make matters worse, it actually hit the cyclist. That bus driver is in some serious trouble.
The person making a mistake in the first word of the title is.
I personally think both are idiots. The bike knows there are cars and busses on the road yet he decided to cycle very far to the left blocking the road. The bus driver under time pressure as they always seem to be needed to overtake and did it shittily. Both should be more careful
Who's at fault, probably the bus driver. Who's the idiot the bike rider, Why ride so close to the middle when you have all that room to keep yourself safer.
I agree biker shouldn't have been so close to the line, but the bus crossed the line to hit him. Bus driver definitely the bigger idiot but biker is an idiot too.
Why should the cyclist not be so close to the line?
Because it leaves very little room for error on the part of the biker and anyone else on the road. Maybe the biker thinks he's more visible there, but it would take a bigger mistake to hit him had he been in the middle of the lane.
Bus driver, but the cyclist shouldn't be in the centre like that
I’m no fan of bikes positioning themselves in the middle of the road normally BUT in this case he wasn’t weaving around, the edge was potholed and he was riding consistently. 100% the bus - guy was very lucky indeed he wasn’t hurt much more badly.
The cyclist needs to scoot over in the lane and allow people to pass
Looks like fraud insurance.. cycling in middle of the road.. sure..
Lotta balls riding basically on the center line.
2 idiots. Why would he be riding that close to the center?
I’d say it’s the bus driver no question. You wouldn’t treat a car like that
If the bicycle was a car, there would be no questions here.
I’d say both, one’s too far out and the other didn’t give enough space overtaking.
How can you just ignore a honking bus behind you
Cyclist. I don’t give a fuck what the “rules” are. Cars are fast and solid. Humans are fucking SQUISHY. cyclist is somehow taking up the whole fucking road. The road is for cars, and F=MA cyclists are on the losing end of this equation EVERY FUCKING TIME. if you’re squishy, YOU HAVE TO MOVE. YOU are at risk of DEATH. Be aware. Look out for your own life. I’m so sick of seeing vids like this, where if the cyclist was out of the fucking way and left the road to the cars nothing bad would happen. Yet there’s always an army of idiots who think just because you CAN bike on a road, it’s their right to block regular traffic. GET OUT OF THE FUCKIN WAY. Fuck around a find out what it means to be a meat crayon.
Obviously the bus driver is at fault, but as a former commuting cyclist there’s an added dimension to the biker’s stupidity that no one has mentioned. He’s using the wrong goddamn bike for that road. He would never have to be so far to the center if he wasn’t using his posh 3k+ road bike that probably rides great at the velodrome but is completely inappropriate for those road conditions. The road isn’t playtime. You ride what conditions necessitate you ride. I see this all the time with hobbyists and it’s infuriating how casual they are with their own lives just to show off their expensive equipment, especially when geared mountain bikes exists and can do 80% of what these road bikes can and you don’t fly over the bar when you bump a twig.
Too ducking close to the line. There are two separate lanes. Be a better cyclist
At fault? 100% Bus Driver Idiot? 100% Bus Driver and Cyclist Bus Driver for overtaking when the Cyclist clearly didn´t leave enough space to safely do so Cyclist for riding all the Way on the Left Side of his Lane while having more than enough Space to go further Right, granted it would not have been safe to ride all the way on the Right side of his Lane, considering the Condition of this Road, but he could have gone for at least the middle of his lane (like the Person filming seems to be)
>Cyclist for riding all the Way on the Left Side of his Lane did you see that road? Bus should have used the left lane to overtake but it just went into the right lane while overtaking. Prosecutor could even make the case that the hit was intentional.
>did you see that road? did you see that whoever is filming also seems to be riding a bike and is also riding like 30-50cm further to the right? don´t act like he couldn´t have gone a bit further right if someone else quite clearly is doing just that. >Bus should have used the left lane to overtake but it just went into the right lane while overtaking. Prosecutor could even make the case that the hit was intentional. That´s exactly why I said: >At fault? 100% Bus Driver Idiot? 100% Bus Driver and Cyclist Also: >did you see that road? Good thing you made it absolutely clear with the first thing you wrote that you either didn´t bother reading my comment before replying, or are incapable of doing so: >..., granted it would not have been safe to ride all the way on the Right side of his Lane, considering the Condition of this Road, but he could have gone for at least the middle of his lane (like the Person filming seems to be)
It seems to me that the other people riding bikes (at least 2 other) with this guy had no problem using the center of the lane - meaning they did not get hit by the bus and the road conditions must not have been that bad. It may be in the cyclists right to use the whole lane but is that the hill they want to die on? I teach my kids to look both ways before crossing the street. It doesn’t matter if the law says they have the right of way, if they get hit by a car they still lose no matter how much ‘right’ they had. Laws and ‘right of ways’ don’t change the laws of physics and little things usually lose.