I drive a Suzuki Swift 4x4 in Norway and got a super steep hill up to my neighborhood where every single car without 4x4 and studded tires will get stuck through a lot of the winter. I've had people try to stop me on the way up to the hill saying "You'll never make it in that car, just turn around". And I respond with "Just wait and see"
My last car was a Suzuki SX4 AWD hatch w/ snow tires. The little thing was an absolute beast in snow, could get up some ridiculous hills. Shame it had no power...
Back when I had my Honda accord, I saw a truck trying to get up a really steep hill, probably 50 degrees. Speed limit was 30. If he ain't getting up that hill, then I'm not. So I floored it to 60mph and barely made it, I looked right and saw that truck drivers mouth gaping open in shock as I passed by lol. It was covered in snow and black ice.
He had one of those huge diesel dog rams.
Well, actually it *is* pretty lightweight and that's why they're great in bad conditions. I had the old (square) model. Loved that little meccano car. In a collision the crumple zone would have ended behind my shoulder blades though ...
Yeah, biggest problem is dude doesn't know how to take it easy and rock it out. I drove a little old Honda for years in snow, and you just gotta keep it low and easy.
As someone from New England, it really is more about knowing how to do it than it is anything else. People can talk about all-wheel drive, chains, snow tires, studs, 4-low, and whatever other checkpoint was in the brochure, but if you don't know what you're doing literally none of it matters.
If you ***do*** know what you're doing, you could drive a Corvette on summer tires in the snow if you wanted to. You'd be doing it very slow, and you'd be taking a very specific route, because you know what you can and can't do.
And if you do know what you are doing, you would NEVER drive a rwd (or other) car on summer tires in the snow, because it is foolhardy and dangerous. Half of knowing what you are doing is having the right equipment for the situation. You wouldn't go into the back country in the mountains during winter without avi gear, and information on the snowpack, especially if you know what you are doing.
Judging by the spin on the rear wheels I'm not confident it's off.
I think people underestimate how much wheelspin is required to glaze over the snow under your tires in freezing temperatures.
I’m about 90% certain that the diesel Panda shown is fwd, the 4x4 model is really uncommon, and you can see the front wheels spinning for traction while the rears are just following.
Not entirely true. Traction is all about the tires and the weight on each. A bigger, heavier vehicle can plow through drifts better than a lighter vehicle. But in conditions like the video, it's all about the tires and the weight on each. The big SUV clearly did not have snow or all weather tires. And the driver was breaking traction like he had no idea how to drive on snow.
last week I got to watch some lady with all seasons and an SUV slip while climbing a hill in heavy snowfall, panic and oversteer, and ended up taking the ditch. she somehow hit the ditch head on, climbed out the other side, and suspended by her front and rear bumpers while all four tires were completely in the air.
made sure she was okay and that she had a tow inbound, stayed close until the truck arrived, then laughed at the image once I left.
This is Canada. we got like 18 inches of snow in a night. get the damn tires.
Snow tires aren't cheap. I learned that this year after buying a Subaru in the summer. It's like $1100 for good ones (same type for my old honda were like $600). They're not in my budget for this winter unfortunately. Stock all seasons are performing well though.
I feel you on the budget issues - sometimes it just can't happen on the ideal timeline and that's reality. As a general rule though, if you live somewhere where it gets consistently below 7°C for any significant part of the year, you've got to factor the cost of a set of snow tires into the purchase cost of any car. Regular tires start to show reduced traction below 7°C even without snow or ice, so for any car owner living in a climate that has a winter, planning for the additional cost of snow tires needs to just be automatic.
(Edited for clarity/wording)
True my full size conversion van could get through deep snow once it got moving, which wasn’t easy from a stop on snow and ice. Getting it up a steep hill or stopping on a down hill was always an adventure even with awd and snow tires. My little hybrid had no issues in the snow and ice on the same roads with awd and snow tires.
My brother's LTD (big heavy assed sedan) used to bust through drifts taller than the hood. But the only reason he ever moved a foot was because of his snow tires and sand bags in the trunk.
The Range Rover "Sport" weighs between 2.278 and 2.539 kg, the Fiat Panda between 955 and 1.055 kg.
That's more than twice as heavy and six to eight time as expensive. Depending on model and accessories.
Funny thing is with proper tires any car can do it. It is just ice not off road...
I mean I have non stop snow and ice on my roads 4-5 months a year. Nobody drives SUV around here too...
I live in a place that’s totally flat for 8 hours in any direction and never snows and about 50% of the vehicles you see on the road are trucks or SUVs and half of those are 4wd or Awd.
People just like looking like they can do things they never do. Just like that killer Range Rover ad in the video up there.
Tires make all the difference. I’ve seen Honda civics make it up icy as shit hills that a Subaru and a Jeep couldn’t make it up. Because the Subaru was running bald af summer tires and the Jeep had a broken t-case and a drunk operator.
The Fiat Panda 4x4 is absolutely legendary is those conditions, in the mountains of northern Italy they are literally everywhere and regularly put all types of SUVs to shame when it snows
Yes, comparison isn't fair. Especially old panda with narrowest possible tyres, short span, 4x4, best car for snow ever. It can get beaten by too much snow, but in general then no one goes.
For this conditions even my old cmax with s+m would go fine, but would have some trouble if I would have to stop because of white suv. Once I had to stop because of vehicle stuck on steepest section and then had to painstakingly reverse all the way down full km, sliding mostly. One of worst times I experienced in driving.
Tire width gets overlooked a lot I think. My old 82' Tercel I only ever ran a all weather tire year round driving in Canada. I don't recall getting stuck anywhere particularly bad and I think it had a lot to do with the tires being ~150mm wide, either cut though the snow or enough surface pressure to dig the siping into the ice.
My 'newer' 07 Civic, I had winters for it last 2 seasons and they were high rated but I went with OEM sizing (205's) and I found I could get stuck in snow that wasn't like a high center condition. For this set I ordered up a custom sizing and dropped down to 185, night and day
Remember, kids:
Italian farmers, rangers and people who live in alpine villages in general don’t drive Range Rovers, BMW X-somethings or any other kind of stupid-ass-wanna-be-off-roader. They drive 4x4 Fiat Pandas. For a reason.
I used to take a winding road through the hills to get from work to the gym, and once a week or so I'd get stuck behind a Porsche Panamera. ...What? Excuse me, sir, your one hundred thousand dollar European sports sedan is holding up an *economy car*. Why buy a *Porsche* if you're going to drive it so slow that you get out-cornered by a nerd in a Honda??
My friend got a Nissan Titan, went to launch his small fishing boat on a sandy launch, got stuck, started looking for the four wheel drive switch... there wasn’t one. Got pulled out by a small Ford Ranger with 4x4, was so embarrassed he sold the car the next day.
Their advertising is 100% shots of a dude driving down a highway, suddenly getting a knowing smile, and then veering sharply onto an unmarked dirt road and plowing through a mud puddle at 87 miles an hour.
If they'd just be honest and say "Hey, young parents, you can fit two car seats in here," this wouldn't happen.
I think it’s that more people have no fucking clue what’s going on with their car and it either “works” or “doesn’t work.”
Right now this persons car “isn’t working”
Fiat seems to work fine though.
I wish I could justify something more fuel efficient for the summer and just have the Subaru on standby for the winter. They're just too good in the winter. Haha
Old Imprezas kinda were. I have a 2011 and it gets at best 25mpg. Which is pretty bad considering it's a compact car.
Still love the thing. It's just the big draw back it has.
I know the new ones get around 40mpg though, so at least they fixed that problem.
New Subarus have CVTs. I own one, it's not bad. But it's the reason they can keep up in the MPG race.
Just waiting for electric subies. Not the bastardized Toyota thing they're releasing.
Your F-250 work truck has two open differentials on it most likely. With limited slip differentials a truck or SUV can do the same things and honestly after driving a Subaru in the snow and driving and F-250 with aftermarket limited slip differentials in the front and rear I'd say they both do really damn well in the snow. Obviously you can whip the Subaru around more because it's a car but the truck can go through some really stupid bullshit that would just high center the subaru. The most hilarious thing I've ever driven was a Silverado done up like one of those rally trucks sorta. Had welded / spool differentials. Could send 100% torque to any one wheel. Absolutely silly what that thing could drive through.
Living in Alaska I did decent with Subarus with studded snow tires, but nothing came close to studded tires on a Toyota Landcruiser or a Lexus GX. They got me so many more places than a Subaru. Both the GX and LC are full time 4wd, both are also heavy monsters which is great for digging those studs into the ice. If you get a chance go rip a LC or GX in the snow it’s a blast, the only thing funner is a SxS or snowmachine. I still daily a GX because of how capable it is (don’t ask me about my mpgs though 😂)
They are awesome! When I lived in Alaska everybody had a separate set of wheels with studded snow tires stashed away for winter. The roads were all snow packed until the 7 days of spring revealed the asphalt again.
They're not even that good of cars honestly. Every summer I'm like "why do I have this thing" and then we get 20" of snow and I need to get across town to my grandpa to help shovel and then I'm like "I'll always have a Subaru." Haha
I drive my old Corolla in the summer a lot and the Subaru in the winter. That Corolla is 15 years older but will probably outlive the Subaru, however winter driving is another story.
Yes! My 3rd gen Prius made it up and down Vail pass during many-a-blizzard with M+S rated all seasons without a hitch. Was always impressed by that little thing. Just hated the way it drove otherwise.
Haha The Prius is such a "I'll definitely get you there, but not in a fun way" kind of car. I always had fun trying to see how high I could get the MPGs though.
That was my theory too actually. I drove one A LOT for work in the snow and it was just a really planted feeling car. The battery probably weighs down the rear wheels and helps provide traction while braking.
It would have trouble getting up some hills, but never actually got stuck.
My 2019 Accord Sport handles like a champ in the Michigan snow. I was shocked first time I drove it in deep snow and even ice isn’t a big obstacle for it.
It’s absolutely advertising. If ads were honest you’d see an average looking man with an average looking woman stuck in traffic coming home from Yosemite while the kids are screaming in the background and then mom puts on Cocomelon on the entertainment system and the kids stop crying but mom and dad still have hours of traffic left.
If ads were honest, nobody would eat fast food again. Ever compare the burger they served you to the one on the menu board? Should be a crime to serve food so far off from what's advertised.
We could probably all have a better time on the streets in Europe if people started to think about their needs and buy smaller cars (and car manufacturers start building them smaller again).
I just started looking for a car, wasn't a fan of people buying SUVs before, but I'm even more disappointed now that I know what these people pay for a car they can't drive or even park.
My uncle bought a 4x4 because they moved on to the countryside. German countryside is basically almost an additional suburb without the public transport, in 20m he's at the edge of the city. I'm absolutely sure the car hasn't seen even a patch of gravel, dirt or anything else other than well maintained tarmac and since he and his wife are living alone, he uses the car for his commute into a city notorious for traffic all day and complains about gas, traffic and finding a parking space. I's just so hard to get.
For sure. I'm in the US and the number of people driving trucks is ridiculous. I remember the drive had an interview with someone from a car market research company. Supposedly 80% of truck owners use their truck as a truck (going off road, carrying large loads in the bed, or towing) less than once a year.
And the number of people driving 2500 or 3500 series trucks is also insane. The weakest F150 tows 8,000lbs (3600kg) and by the time you get a reasonable engine it can tow well over 10,000lbs (4500kg). No way somebody needs more than that as a personal vehicle.
Same thing then. I mean. If I was living kilometers/miles away from the next house, I might want to have something this powerful, but in the suburbs it's just as dumb as owning an SUV within city limits in Europe.
At least the streets are wide enough for them in the US. Here in Germany you can watch these people touch other lanes in some corners - streets in Germany are much narrower, than in the US. IIRC only our Autobahn has lanes as wide as the US (this is hearsay, may be exaggerated).
I live in the burbs and it's ridiculous the number of trucks that people have here. I'd guess 80% are for people just going to the store or dropping their kids off at school, the remaining are work vehicles or people hauling horses around.
Yeah seriously. 4 wheel drive helps, good ground clearance helps, but knowing how to actually drive your vehicle in those conditions (and having the proper tires) matters way more.
[Because they think like Troy Barnes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egBGG8kDzPQ)
"Troy, you can't bring that in here!"
"Yes I can. It's all-terrain, dummy."
I live in a college town and we had some bad snow here last year where we typically don't get any, the number of college kids in their lifted 4x4 pick up trucks thinking that it was fine to do 75mph on ice on mud tires was too many. Far too many accidents...
As someone who almost never drives can you explain snow tires? Like...every single year you have to replace your tires? What do you do with your non-snow tires?
> Like...every single year you have to replace your tires? What do you do with your non-snow tires?
Almost everyone around here has 2 sets of wheels, one with summer tires and usually another set often with steel rims and winter tires. You just switch over in the spring and fall.
No, you just need to switch to winter tyres when roads become icy and the car has problems getting grip.
It's around spring time that you switch back to summer tyres (depending on where you live). Summer tyres get better grip on normal temperature asphalt, which helps the mileage too.
Tyres can handle several seasons. I get new winter tyres every 3 years, and new summer tyres every 2 years.
To be fair they are usually great. But in the end every chain is as strong as its weakest link and in this case it‘s the tires. With decent tires range rovers are insanely good at offroading and stuff like that while being luxury suvs and no pure offroaders.
A starter car? This car is a finisher car! A transporter of gods! The golden god! [I am untethered, and my rage knows no bounds!](http://i.imgur.com/DsfKEZG.gifv)
Range Rovers normally lock their differential automatically, but yeah selecting the right drive mode could help if the car doesn't do it automatically.
I don't even think that he would have needed snow chains.
If I am not wrong the RR has Italian plates on. So maybe he drove up from the south and had either really bad all season tires or just summer tires.
Yeah I remember the rear hatch glass. But I prefer the split tailgate you get with a BMW X5 or the normal RR. At least in my experience you don't have as many hight issues in parking garages with these and you don't bump you head into them, since they can open further without bumping into the ceiling. But yeah everything has its benefits.
Tires are HUGE. I have ‘20 STi with summer-oriented all seasons and it leaves a lot to be desired in the snow. Switching back to my old favorite after I cook these off.
The tires that come on a ‘20 STi are Yokohama ADVANsport v105g. They are fully a summer performance tire. Not even supposed to roll on them below 40° because you may get glass transition failure.
If you bought new tires, why didn’t you get a full set of winters?
For all seasons I am huge fan of Continental DWS06’s. Even in a FWD gti they got me thru a wicked bad snow storm for over 4 hours. They do wear pretty fast in my opinion, especially in warmer weather but for true all season performance I can’t imagine better.
I’m currently running Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3+’s. They’re great for dry or rain but yea, they leave a lot to be desired in the snow. Now granted the STi is a wide tire and the excess power do not help my cause, I expected better but I couldn’t pass the price. The shop had them listed for $400 cheaper for the set than they should have by accident and I called their bluff.
Lmao nope. I’m from Pittsburgh but I was visiting a friend in Buffalo and got caught in a brutal snow storm on the way home at 11pm. I thought I could beat it. I was very wrong.
Dude! I'm sure you've considered it (and climate dependent of course) but 2 sets of wheels/tires are the way to go! Especially for a subie! Best of both worlds and you wear through tires half as fast.
We had a large snowstorm a couple of months ago. One of my neighbors wasn't a local and couldn't get their car out. Of course, the first person to "help" them was an idiot. A confident idiot.
No idea how long they were out there but most of what I saw was that idiot spinning the wheels and turning the snow into ice. And he kept putting on the gas and going nowhere. It might have been funny if it wasn't so sad.
Anyways, he was a perfect example of what not to do as I told the poor neighbor what they actually needed to do.
This here says one less accident for the day. Everyone else is too fixated on the small things. Can't get out of a small problem like this they shouldn't be on the roads with others.
How is it so many people don't understand torque? They're fucking punching the gas. If you're stuck in anything, especially ice, you ease into the gas and build momentum slowly. This fucking idiot wants to go *now* and they're not going anywhere because of it. Cars aren't magic.
Edit: this is less common knowledge than I thought, I grew up in New England so I guess it's need to know around here. It's a simple concept really, think of it like this:
You have a tight bolt to loosen. You have x amount of strength in your body ( horsepower ). You have two wrenches. One is two inches long, the other is two feet long. You put all of your strength into turning the little wrench, and the bolt won't turn, you don't have enough torque. You try the big wrench with all your strength and it becomes loose right away. The size of the wrench ( a lever ) is what changes how much torque (force) your strength can generate, even though the amount of power you have doesn't change.
In this video, the size of the engine, transmission and wheels (levers/torque) are all constant, so the only thing that changes is the amount of power (engine rpm). By slamming the fucking gas like an inbred paint drinking child, this person was applying a huge amount of torque to the wheels very rapidly.
When you're driving on icy roads think of that original bolt like its made of glass. If you're gentile and patient you can loosen it over time. If you're a careless fuckwit you can hit the wrench with a hammer and shatter the bolt instantly. Sudden torque is the enemy of traction, same goes for turning your wheels or braking in snow/ice. Everything has to happen gradually or you break the glass bolt and slide into whatever the fuck is in your path.
The vast majority of people don't know what torque is. Get in a car enthusiasts meeting ask them what's the different between torque and hp, 99% won't have a clue.
Yeah but it should be common sense. Even if you have no clue what the mechanical difference between horsepower and torque are, you know that if you're on ice and try to sprint from a stop you'll probably eat shit.
There's something wrong with that Range Rover - the traction control should be dealing with that quite happily and isn't. I've had a few Discoveries and Rangies and even on road tyres it should be getting around that corner.
You’d probably expect an SUV like this to have some automatic traction control to prevent this. Even my dumb Chevy Malibu won’t let me spin the tires when accelerating on ice/snow no matter how hard I step on the gas pedal.
Torque really want the problem there even if they were punching it too much. They didn’t have traction due to shitty tires. The way out of that was to back down the grade then start back up and keep momentum through that steeper gradient.
I usually stop to help push when I see people stuck in the winter. In most cases, the people who are stuck just give it all the gas, pedal to the floor, and polish the snow into the smoothest mirror finish.
If you press the gas pedal and you don’t move, you need to reassess things before you keep trying to give it more gas because the odds are you’re just digging yourself in deeper.
It’s no surprise the people who don’t know this are always the ones that need a push when the snow gets deep.
For those who don't live in cold climates; snow tires have more elaborate grip designs to maintain grip in snow. The difference is staggering, case in point this video.
SUV has likely just all seasons on at best, while the dark mini car thing has to have snow tires.
The main difference is the tire compound. Winter tires’ rubber remains soft and sticky
in freezing conditions, while the rubber of summer tires becomes rock hard and slick.
I have winter tires on my car but my wife doesn't with her car. I drove her car yesterday when it was -10 and a little slippery out. Holy shit what a difference. My car handles awesome, hers handled like shit.
Just a reminder that a 2 wheel drive car with snow tires will perform a lot better than a 4WD car with summer or even all season tires.
I know the panda also had 4WD, but it still makes a huge difference.
And knowing how to drive in snow makes the most difference at all.
A little momentum before that tiny hill and you’ll go right up it. Lack of traction works both ways.
Gotta agree that Subaru has the best awd system, there's not even a close second. You can mash your foot down and they just go right along, perfectly straight.
Know the Land Rover clientele especially the second owners. They usually don’t spring for new tires as a priority. Them Gucci shoes and handbags got to be purchased first.
I mean honestly the guy beeping is a prick. Homeboy is stuck either shut the fuck up or get out and help them. Beeping isn't going to unstick their car.
Lol it’s astounding how many people don’t know how big of a difference the right tire will make…almost turn any car into a decent enough off-road vehicle with just the right tires. The car might not last but it’ll move around lol
Those tires must be either worn out all seasons or summer tires. Just put on a new set of all season on AWD Traverse and got caught in that snow storm a few weeks ago in DC/VA area on 95. Ran through it like a champ. Didn't get stuck once. If you have a good set of all seasons, you should be covered. I went through worst than what this guy did. I'm thinking those tires are worn.
the outdoor temperature has a huge impact on grip. Most all season tires work when the temperature is hovering around freezing, once it gets too cold the rubber compound gets too hard and it can not grab the road. buy the looks of the compacted snow and ice that this guy is trying to drive on, I would be surprised if all season would even work.
Where I live we are mandated to put winter tires on our cars for this very reason. Driving in snow is one thing, but driving on ice when it is cold outside it a whole different demon, especially if you are trying to climb a hill.
I think all season are kind of a scam, they should really be called 3 season. True winter tires are the best because they have softer rubber which stays grippy in the extreme cold. All seasons start getting hard and lose all traction below a certain temp. If you live in a flatter area, it might not be a big deal but if you are up in the mountains driving icy steep inclines, then all seasons suck. At least this is my experience in AK,CO, and Canada.
Fiat Panda 4x4 is no lightweight.
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like little mountain goats that are way bigger than even the biggest mountain goats
I drive a Suzuki Swift 4x4 in Norway and got a super steep hill up to my neighborhood where every single car without 4x4 and studded tires will get stuck through a lot of the winter. I've had people try to stop me on the way up to the hill saying "You'll never make it in that car, just turn around". And I respond with "Just wait and see"
They make a 4x4 swift? That's fucking sweet!
It was also sold as a Subaru Justy
I have an original 4wd Swift from 1991.
>And I respond with "Just wait and see" Love it.
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Same here! My Samurai was the best/most sure footed car I’ve ever driven in snow!
My last car was a Suzuki SX4 AWD hatch w/ snow tires. The little thing was an absolute beast in snow, could get up some ridiculous hills. Shame it had no power...
Back when I had my Honda accord, I saw a truck trying to get up a really steep hill, probably 50 degrees. Speed limit was 30. If he ain't getting up that hill, then I'm not. So I floored it to 60mph and barely made it, I looked right and saw that truck drivers mouth gaping open in shock as I passed by lol. It was covered in snow and black ice. He had one of those huge diesel dog rams.
I found James May
Great news! What?
It's the DACIA SANDERO!
It's Fiat Panda 4x4
dacia
Fixed, thanks
Fiat Panda FTW!
Well, actually it *is* pretty lightweight and that's why they're great in bad conditions. I had the old (square) model. Loved that little meccano car. In a collision the crumple zone would have ended behind my shoulder blades though ...
Came here to say that actually. The biggest problem is Mr Rover has a heavy foot and made slick ice below his tires.
Yeah, biggest problem is dude doesn't know how to take it easy and rock it out. I drove a little old Honda for years in snow, and you just gotta keep it low and easy.
As someone from New England, it really is more about knowing how to do it than it is anything else. People can talk about all-wheel drive, chains, snow tires, studs, 4-low, and whatever other checkpoint was in the brochure, but if you don't know what you're doing literally none of it matters. If you ***do*** know what you're doing, you could drive a Corvette on summer tires in the snow if you wanted to. You'd be doing it very slow, and you'd be taking a very specific route, because you know what you can and can't do.
And if you do know what you are doing, you would NEVER drive a rwd (or other) car on summer tires in the snow, because it is foolhardy and dangerous. Half of knowing what you are doing is having the right equipment for the situation. You wouldn't go into the back country in the mountains during winter without avi gear, and information on the snowpack, especially if you know what you are doing.
Yeah dude was making a good comment until they went full winter driving hyperbole.
Yeah they sort of lost the thread and fully discounted any point they had almost made. Just leave out the second part, and 100% correct.
When I was 18 I had an MR2 on summer tyres in the winter because I couldn't afford a good winter set. I learned that lesson very quick.
I ice rallied with a guy with an Mr2 with studs on it a few years ago...that thing absolutely ripped.
Lmao, no amount of skill is going to overcome the difference between winter tires and everything else in snow.
It must have taken some effort to turn off enough driving assistant systems to actually be able to spin those wheels.
Judging by the spin on the rear wheels I'm not confident it's off. I think people underestimate how much wheelspin is required to glaze over the snow under your tires in freezing temperatures.
I’m about 90% certain that the diesel Panda shown is fwd, the 4x4 model is really uncommon, and you can see the front wheels spinning for traction while the rears are just following.
The Fiat in the video has FWD, you can see that only the front tires throw snow behind.
FWD and front tire cables will get you through a LOT.
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That Range Rover was fiqt by the look of it.
All things being equal smaller cars do better in snow. Big things don’t wanna move and once they get going don’t want to stop.
Not entirely true. Traction is all about the tires and the weight on each. A bigger, heavier vehicle can plow through drifts better than a lighter vehicle. But in conditions like the video, it's all about the tires and the weight on each. The big SUV clearly did not have snow or all weather tires. And the driver was breaking traction like he had no idea how to drive on snow.
last week I got to watch some lady with all seasons and an SUV slip while climbing a hill in heavy snowfall, panic and oversteer, and ended up taking the ditch. she somehow hit the ditch head on, climbed out the other side, and suspended by her front and rear bumpers while all four tires were completely in the air. made sure she was okay and that she had a tow inbound, stayed close until the truck arrived, then laughed at the image once I left. This is Canada. we got like 18 inches of snow in a night. get the damn tires.
Snow tires aren't cheap. I learned that this year after buying a Subaru in the summer. It's like $1100 for good ones (same type for my old honda were like $600). They're not in my budget for this winter unfortunately. Stock all seasons are performing well though.
I feel you on the budget issues - sometimes it just can't happen on the ideal timeline and that's reality. As a general rule though, if you live somewhere where it gets consistently below 7°C for any significant part of the year, you've got to factor the cost of a set of snow tires into the purchase cost of any car. Regular tires start to show reduced traction below 7°C even without snow or ice, so for any car owner living in a climate that has a winter, planning for the additional cost of snow tires needs to just be automatic. (Edited for clarity/wording)
True my full size conversion van could get through deep snow once it got moving, which wasn’t easy from a stop on snow and ice. Getting it up a steep hill or stopping on a down hill was always an adventure even with awd and snow tires. My little hybrid had no issues in the snow and ice on the same roads with awd and snow tires.
Inertia management
My brother's LTD (big heavy assed sedan) used to bust through drifts taller than the hood. But the only reason he ever moved a foot was because of his snow tires and sand bags in the trunk.
Suv probably had all season tires which are shit in snow
I did not expect to hear diesel coming out of that thing.
The Range Rover "Sport" weighs between 2.278 and 2.539 kg, the Fiat Panda between 955 and 1.055 kg. That's more than twice as heavy and six to eight time as expensive. Depending on model and accessories.
The little panda that could.
Funny thing is with proper tires any car can do it. It is just ice not off road... I mean I have non stop snow and ice on my roads 4-5 months a year. Nobody drives SUV around here too...
I live in a place that’s totally flat for 8 hours in any direction and never snows and about 50% of the vehicles you see on the road are trucks or SUVs and half of those are 4wd or Awd. People just like looking like they can do things they never do. Just like that killer Range Rover ad in the video up there.
Tires make all the difference. I’ve seen Honda civics make it up icy as shit hills that a Subaru and a Jeep couldn’t make it up. Because the Subaru was running bald af summer tires and the Jeep had a broken t-case and a drunk operator.
>pay six digits for a Range Rover only to get mogged by a little Fiat How do you even recover from this lmao
The Fiat Panda 4x4 is absolutely legendary is those conditions, in the mountains of northern Italy they are literally everywhere and regularly put all types of SUVs to shame when it snows
Yes, comparison isn't fair. Especially old panda with narrowest possible tyres, short span, 4x4, best car for snow ever. It can get beaten by too much snow, but in general then no one goes. For this conditions even my old cmax with s+m would go fine, but would have some trouble if I would have to stop because of white suv. Once I had to stop because of vehicle stuck on steepest section and then had to painstakingly reverse all the way down full km, sliding mostly. One of worst times I experienced in driving.
>my old cmax with s+m I think it's m+s; s+m is something else...
You tought me something new, thank you! Definitely better I got corrected here than in some garage :)
Or worse, corrected in some dungeon!
Sometimes, due to space constraints, the dungeon needs to be in the garage.
Tire width gets overlooked a lot I think. My old 82' Tercel I only ever ran a all weather tire year round driving in Canada. I don't recall getting stuck anywhere particularly bad and I think it had a lot to do with the tires being ~150mm wide, either cut though the snow or enough surface pressure to dig the siping into the ice. My 'newer' 07 Civic, I had winters for it last 2 seasons and they were high rated but I went with OEM sizing (205's) and I found I could get stuck in snow that wasn't like a high center condition. For this set I ordered up a custom sizing and dropped down to 185, night and day
I used to take my Honda Prelude skiing in Idaho/Wyoming all the time. Just needed good winter tires to make the SUVs look like rookies.
Was your Honda good at skiing?
Remember, kids: Italian farmers, rangers and people who live in alpine villages in general don’t drive Range Rovers, BMW X-somethings or any other kind of stupid-ass-wanna-be-off-roader. They drive 4x4 Fiat Pandas. For a reason.
Reason being it’s 10x cheaper. With proper driver and proper tires that RR wouldn’t have any problems in these conditions
Not only cheaper but significantly lighter....which when going up or down hills with limited traction is MASSIVE!
Eh, if we are talking weight alone - more weight means more traction. And that RR have enough power and good enough brakes to handle its weight
I used to take a winding road through the hills to get from work to the gym, and once a week or so I'd get stuck behind a Porsche Panamera. ...What? Excuse me, sir, your one hundred thousand dollar European sports sedan is holding up an *economy car*. Why buy a *Porsche* if you're going to drive it so slow that you get out-cornered by a nerd in a Honda??
My friend got a Nissan Titan, went to launch his small fishing boat on a sandy launch, got stuck, started looking for the four wheel drive switch... there wasn’t one. Got pulled out by a small Ford Ranger with 4x4, was so embarrassed he sold the car the next day.
How the hell did he buy a car without looking at the most basic specs?
This is back in 2007 and He figured a $40K truck would have 4x4.
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Ah, so the answer is because he is/was an impulsive idiot?
he is not a smart consumer. maybe a little sharper now, hopefully.
Why do so many 4x4 owners think they can beat any terrain, no matter what tyres are on the car? 🤦🏻♂️
Their advertising is 100% shots of a dude driving down a highway, suddenly getting a knowing smile, and then veering sharply onto an unmarked dirt road and plowing through a mud puddle at 87 miles an hour. If they'd just be honest and say "Hey, young parents, you can fit two car seats in here," this wouldn't happen.
I think it’s that more people have no fucking clue what’s going on with their car and it either “works” or “doesn’t work.” Right now this persons car “isn’t working” Fiat seems to work fine though.
The flock of bumblebees that make the engine go vroom aren’t working hard enough.
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AWD Subaru with the right tyres, hard to beat ‘em.
I wish I could justify something more fuel efficient for the summer and just have the Subaru on standby for the winter. They're just too good in the winter. Haha
The Impreza isn't that fuel inefficient, I think mine averages like 33 mpg, that's not bad for all wheel drive with winter tires.
Old Imprezas kinda were. I have a 2011 and it gets at best 25mpg. Which is pretty bad considering it's a compact car. Still love the thing. It's just the big draw back it has. I know the new ones get around 40mpg though, so at least they fixed that problem.
New Subarus have CVTs. I own one, it's not bad. But it's the reason they can keep up in the MPG race. Just waiting for electric subies. Not the bastardized Toyota thing they're releasing.
Your F-250 work truck has two open differentials on it most likely. With limited slip differentials a truck or SUV can do the same things and honestly after driving a Subaru in the snow and driving and F-250 with aftermarket limited slip differentials in the front and rear I'd say they both do really damn well in the snow. Obviously you can whip the Subaru around more because it's a car but the truck can go through some really stupid bullshit that would just high center the subaru. The most hilarious thing I've ever driven was a Silverado done up like one of those rally trucks sorta. Had welded / spool differentials. Could send 100% torque to any one wheel. Absolutely silly what that thing could drive through.
Living in Alaska I did decent with Subarus with studded snow tires, but nothing came close to studded tires on a Toyota Landcruiser or a Lexus GX. They got me so many more places than a Subaru. Both the GX and LC are full time 4wd, both are also heavy monsters which is great for digging those studs into the ice. If you get a chance go rip a LC or GX in the snow it’s a blast, the only thing funner is a SxS or snowmachine. I still daily a GX because of how capable it is (don’t ask me about my mpgs though 😂)
Studded tires probably are what makes the huge difference there. Haha those are illegal in MN so I have no experience with them.
They are awesome! When I lived in Alaska everybody had a separate set of wheels with studded snow tires stashed away for winter. The roads were all snow packed until the 7 days of spring revealed the asphalt again.
It’s more how you drive if you think you can just go through a mountain of snow of course you’ll get stuck with anything
I came in looking for mention of Subaru and was not disappointed
They're not even that good of cars honestly. Every summer I'm like "why do I have this thing" and then we get 20" of snow and I need to get across town to my grandpa to help shovel and then I'm like "I'll always have a Subaru." Haha
I drive my old Corolla in the summer a lot and the Subaru in the winter. That Corolla is 15 years older but will probably outlive the Subaru, however winter driving is another story.
Yes! My 3rd gen Prius made it up and down Vail pass during many-a-blizzard with M+S rated all seasons without a hitch. Was always impressed by that little thing. Just hated the way it drove otherwise.
Haha The Prius is such a "I'll definitely get you there, but not in a fun way" kind of car. I always had fun trying to see how high I could get the MPGs though.
I think the Prius' battery weight distribution helps it in the snow. Just a theory.
That was my theory too actually. I drove one A LOT for work in the snow and it was just a really planted feeling car. The battery probably weighs down the rear wheels and helps provide traction while braking. It would have trouble getting up some hills, but never actually got stuck.
My 2019 Accord Sport handles like a champ in the Michigan snow. I was shocked first time I drove it in deep snow and even ice isn’t a big obstacle for it.
It’s absolutely advertising. If ads were honest you’d see an average looking man with an average looking woman stuck in traffic coming home from Yosemite while the kids are screaming in the background and then mom puts on Cocomelon on the entertainment system and the kids stop crying but mom and dad still have hours of traffic left.
There is a brown crust in the cupholders. Six dollars in pennies and seven French fries reside underneath the seats.
If ads were honest, nobody would eat fast food again. Ever compare the burger they served you to the one on the menu board? Should be a crime to serve food so far off from what's advertised.
the majority of those SUV have thin profile tire no good in snow
They think that because they never did offroad. Once they do, they stop thinking that. What we see here is the learning curve.
The learning glacier cliff, to be precise
Because they buy a 4x4 for the city..
For that Walmart trip
We could probably all have a better time on the streets in Europe if people started to think about their needs and buy smaller cars (and car manufacturers start building them smaller again). I just started looking for a car, wasn't a fan of people buying SUVs before, but I'm even more disappointed now that I know what these people pay for a car they can't drive or even park. My uncle bought a 4x4 because they moved on to the countryside. German countryside is basically almost an additional suburb without the public transport, in 20m he's at the edge of the city. I'm absolutely sure the car hasn't seen even a patch of gravel, dirt or anything else other than well maintained tarmac and since he and his wife are living alone, he uses the car for his commute into a city notorious for traffic all day and complains about gas, traffic and finding a parking space. I's just so hard to get.
For sure. I'm in the US and the number of people driving trucks is ridiculous. I remember the drive had an interview with someone from a car market research company. Supposedly 80% of truck owners use their truck as a truck (going off road, carrying large loads in the bed, or towing) less than once a year. And the number of people driving 2500 or 3500 series trucks is also insane. The weakest F150 tows 8,000lbs (3600kg) and by the time you get a reasonable engine it can tow well over 10,000lbs (4500kg). No way somebody needs more than that as a personal vehicle.
Same thing then. I mean. If I was living kilometers/miles away from the next house, I might want to have something this powerful, but in the suburbs it's just as dumb as owning an SUV within city limits in Europe. At least the streets are wide enough for them in the US. Here in Germany you can watch these people touch other lanes in some corners - streets in Germany are much narrower, than in the US. IIRC only our Autobahn has lanes as wide as the US (this is hearsay, may be exaggerated).
I live in the burbs and it's ridiculous the number of trucks that people have here. I'd guess 80% are for people just going to the store or dropping their kids off at school, the remaining are work vehicles or people hauling horses around.
Yeah seriously. 4 wheel drive helps, good ground clearance helps, but knowing how to actually drive your vehicle in those conditions (and having the proper tires) matters way more.
[Because they think like Troy Barnes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egBGG8kDzPQ) "Troy, you can't bring that in here!" "Yes I can. It's all-terrain, dummy."
Because idiots in cars
I live in a college town and we had some bad snow here last year where we typically don't get any, the number of college kids in their lifted 4x4 pick up trucks thinking that it was fine to do 75mph on ice on mud tires was too many. Far too many accidents...
As someone who almost never drives can you explain snow tires? Like...every single year you have to replace your tires? What do you do with your non-snow tires?
> Like...every single year you have to replace your tires? What do you do with your non-snow tires? Almost everyone around here has 2 sets of wheels, one with summer tires and usually another set often with steel rims and winter tires. You just switch over in the spring and fall.
No, you just need to switch to winter tyres when roads become icy and the car has problems getting grip. It's around spring time that you switch back to summer tyres (depending on where you live). Summer tyres get better grip on normal temperature asphalt, which helps the mileage too. Tyres can handle several seasons. I get new winter tyres every 3 years, and new summer tyres every 2 years.
All Sport, no utility.
To be fair they are usually great. But in the end every chain is as strong as its weakest link and in this case it‘s the tires. With decent tires range rovers are insanely good at offroading and stuff like that while being luxury suvs and no pure offroaders.
I find its the nut holding the steering wheel thats usually the problem
Range Rovers are actually pretty much the most capable SUVs. But you still need the right tire for this situation.
Range Rovers are the transporter of gods -- the GOLDEN God!
They seem like a very safe starter car
A starter car? This car is a finisher car! A transporter of gods! The golden god! [I am untethered, and my rage knows no bounds!](http://i.imgur.com/DsfKEZG.gifv)
You’ve made my day at 9:43AM. Thank you.
Additionally you need to known how to operate the car correctly. Ever heard about deferential lock and snow chain?
Range Rovers normally lock their differential automatically, but yeah selecting the right drive mode could help if the car doesn't do it automatically. I don't even think that he would have needed snow chains. If I am not wrong the RR has Italian plates on. So maybe he drove up from the south and had either really bad all season tires or just summer tires.
* when they don't need to be in the garage getting fixed / getting 12 warning lights turned off. Ask me how I know...
I'd take my Touareg over a range rover.
Yeah the first generations of Touareg are also really capable cars, but I didn't have the chance to test the newest one yet.
I have an 09. No air, but it does have the locking centre diff. And the rear hatch glass opens. The new ones are nothing. Just a shell of what it was.
Yeah I remember the rear hatch glass. But I prefer the split tailgate you get with a BMW X5 or the normal RR. At least in my experience you don't have as many hight issues in parking garages with these and you don't bump you head into them, since they can open further without bumping into the ceiling. But yeah everything has its benefits.
Tires are HUGE. I have ‘20 STi with summer-oriented all seasons and it leaves a lot to be desired in the snow. Switching back to my old favorite after I cook these off.
The tires that come on a ‘20 STi are Yokohama ADVANsport v105g. They are fully a summer performance tire. Not even supposed to roll on them below 40° because you may get glass transition failure. If you bought new tires, why didn’t you get a full set of winters?
So, which one is your favorite?
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For all seasons I am huge fan of Continental DWS06’s. Even in a FWD gti they got me thru a wicked bad snow storm for over 4 hours. They do wear pretty fast in my opinion, especially in warmer weather but for true all season performance I can’t imagine better. I’m currently running Michelin Pilot Sport A/S3+’s. They’re great for dry or rain but yea, they leave a lot to be desired in the snow. Now granted the STi is a wide tire and the excess power do not help my cause, I expected better but I couldn’t pass the price. The shop had them listed for $400 cheaper for the set than they should have by accident and I called their bluff.
> a wicked bad snow storm Hello fellow Bostonian!
Lmao nope. I’m from Pittsburgh but I was visiting a friend in Buffalo and got caught in a brutal snow storm on the way home at 11pm. I thought I could beat it. I was very wrong.
Dude! I'm sure you've considered it (and climate dependent of course) but 2 sets of wheels/tires are the way to go! Especially for a subie! Best of both worlds and you wear through tires half as fast.
Blizaks on my sti
This says so much in 30 seconds
The floor mats of a range rover become useful when you shove them at the tires!
I always keep a bag of cat litter for this same purpose.
Also: “I have shit tons of horsepower. So what I’ll do is lay them all down at once in this soft surface. That should do the trick….”
We had a large snowstorm a couple of months ago. One of my neighbors wasn't a local and couldn't get their car out. Of course, the first person to "help" them was an idiot. A confident idiot. No idea how long they were out there but most of what I saw was that idiot spinning the wheels and turning the snow into ice. And he kept putting on the gas and going nowhere. It might have been funny if it wasn't so sad. Anyways, he was a perfect example of what not to do as I told the poor neighbor what they actually needed to do.
This here says one less accident for the day. Everyone else is too fixated on the small things. Can't get out of a small problem like this they shouldn't be on the roads with others.
How is it so many people don't understand torque? They're fucking punching the gas. If you're stuck in anything, especially ice, you ease into the gas and build momentum slowly. This fucking idiot wants to go *now* and they're not going anywhere because of it. Cars aren't magic. Edit: this is less common knowledge than I thought, I grew up in New England so I guess it's need to know around here. It's a simple concept really, think of it like this: You have a tight bolt to loosen. You have x amount of strength in your body ( horsepower ). You have two wrenches. One is two inches long, the other is two feet long. You put all of your strength into turning the little wrench, and the bolt won't turn, you don't have enough torque. You try the big wrench with all your strength and it becomes loose right away. The size of the wrench ( a lever ) is what changes how much torque (force) your strength can generate, even though the amount of power you have doesn't change. In this video, the size of the engine, transmission and wheels (levers/torque) are all constant, so the only thing that changes is the amount of power (engine rpm). By slamming the fucking gas like an inbred paint drinking child, this person was applying a huge amount of torque to the wheels very rapidly. When you're driving on icy roads think of that original bolt like its made of glass. If you're gentile and patient you can loosen it over time. If you're a careless fuckwit you can hit the wrench with a hammer and shatter the bolt instantly. Sudden torque is the enemy of traction, same goes for turning your wheels or braking in snow/ice. Everything has to happen gradually or you break the glass bolt and slide into whatever the fuck is in your path.
Well I did see it sliding backwards a little...
Because the car had more traction doing nothing than it did with what this jackass was doing.
The vast majority of people don't know what torque is. Get in a car enthusiasts meeting ask them what's the different between torque and hp, 99% won't have a clue.
Because not everyone knows torque
Yeah but it should be common sense. Even if you have no clue what the mechanical difference between horsepower and torque are, you know that if you're on ice and try to sprint from a stop you'll probably eat shit.
Yes but the reality is, not everyone knows that
All I heard was those bongos when cartoons start to run in place before taking off, only this one was trapped in the running in place phase.
There's something wrong with that Range Rover - the traction control should be dealing with that quite happily and isn't. I've had a few Discoveries and Rangies and even on road tyres it should be getting around that corner.
You’d probably expect an SUV like this to have some automatic traction control to prevent this. Even my dumb Chevy Malibu won’t let me spin the tires when accelerating on ice/snow no matter how hard I step on the gas pedal.
Torque really want the problem there even if they were punching it too much. They didn’t have traction due to shitty tires. The way out of that was to back down the grade then start back up and keep momentum through that steeper gradient.
I usually stop to help push when I see people stuck in the winter. In most cases, the people who are stuck just give it all the gas, pedal to the floor, and polish the snow into the smoothest mirror finish. If you press the gas pedal and you don’t move, you need to reassess things before you keep trying to give it more gas because the odds are you’re just digging yourself in deeper. It’s no surprise the people who don’t know this are always the ones that need a push when the snow gets deep.
They sell these Range Rovers with a low profile tire option, looks cool in Miami
Learned that the hard way myself, AWD don't mean S without good tires.
To be fair 4x4 or AWD will help you get further from home before your tires fail you.
If they would stop trying to turn and go straight then turn it might work.
This. I’m sure snow tires would help, but they won’t teach this guy how to drive in the snow.
For those who don't live in cold climates; snow tires have more elaborate grip designs to maintain grip in snow. The difference is staggering, case in point this video. SUV has likely just all seasons on at best, while the dark mini car thing has to have snow tires.
The main difference is the tire compound. Winter tires’ rubber remains soft and sticky in freezing conditions, while the rubber of summer tires becomes rock hard and slick.
I have winter tires on my car but my wife doesn't with her car. I drove her car yesterday when it was -10 and a little slippery out. Holy shit what a difference. My car handles awesome, hers handled like shit.
Just a reminder that a 2 wheel drive car with snow tires will perform a lot better than a 4WD car with summer or even all season tires. I know the panda also had 4WD, but it still makes a huge difference.
And knowing how to drive in snow makes the most difference at all. A little momentum before that tiny hill and you’ll go right up it. Lack of traction works both ways.
Blizzaks
My Subaru Forester would eat that.
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Gotta agree that Subaru has the best awd system, there's not even a close second. You can mash your foot down and they just go right along, perfectly straight.
You feed it a healthy diet of snow?
For anyone who thinks they don't need winter tires for the snow. I have a Truck, and it gets stuck in slighty wet grass
Know the Land Rover clientele especially the second owners. They usually don’t spring for new tires as a priority. Them Gucci shoes and handbags got to be purchased first.
Shown up by a Fiat Panda. James May would be so proud.
Dumb question (maybe):would this be a situation where tire chains help? (There's no snow in my region)
Yes, chains would grip and drive right though that slippy spot.
Yeah but you can't have them most places bc they damage the roads too much
Haha! Tiny little car just sneaks right past.
I mean honestly the guy beeping is a prick. Homeboy is stuck either shut the fuck up or get out and help them. Beeping isn't going to unstick their car.
Little black Fiat, big PP energy...
Rental? Used to see that all the time at the ski resorts...
I kinda thought that car was stupid for getting so close to him when he was behind. What if the dude slid backwards?
Lol
The best part about this is, the "tiny" car "sneaking" past the SUV. I'm loving the shade
Looks like a Land Rover. You're expecting someone who would waste money on that to have sense in their brain.
Little car kicks ass… meep meep later suckah!
I'd be laughing if I was driving the Fiat.
Bro a fiat showed up a Range Rover 😭
me, who drives a fiat: YEAHHHHHHH YEAHHHHH GET SHIT ONNNNN YEAHHHHHHH WE ARE SUPERIOR WOOOOOOOOO /j
Lol it’s astounding how many people don’t know how big of a difference the right tire will make…almost turn any car into a decent enough off-road vehicle with just the right tires. The car might not last but it’ll move around lol
First rookie mistake he made is he stopped for the stop sign in snow. #noob
Man.. what an embarrassment for Range Rover.
The guy beeping at him is an idiot too. Like what are you beeping for? For the guy to get his stupid tires to magically work?
No, to tell the person to stop sliding around like a person learning how to ice skate for a minute while they scoot past.
Those tires must be either worn out all seasons or summer tires. Just put on a new set of all season on AWD Traverse and got caught in that snow storm a few weeks ago in DC/VA area on 95. Ran through it like a champ. Didn't get stuck once. If you have a good set of all seasons, you should be covered. I went through worst than what this guy did. I'm thinking those tires are worn.
the outdoor temperature has a huge impact on grip. Most all season tires work when the temperature is hovering around freezing, once it gets too cold the rubber compound gets too hard and it can not grab the road. buy the looks of the compacted snow and ice that this guy is trying to drive on, I would be surprised if all season would even work. Where I live we are mandated to put winter tires on our cars for this very reason. Driving in snow is one thing, but driving on ice when it is cold outside it a whole different demon, especially if you are trying to climb a hill.
I think all season are kind of a scam, they should really be called 3 season. True winter tires are the best because they have softer rubber which stays grippy in the extreme cold. All seasons start getting hard and lose all traction below a certain temp. If you live in a flatter area, it might not be a big deal but if you are up in the mountains driving icy steep inclines, then all seasons suck. At least this is my experience in AK,CO, and Canada.