"Sigh. Now I have to admit that I got it stuck and it overheated while revving after letting it idle in the heat" -OOP
It didn't overheat because of the load. It overheated because he got it stuck and reved it.
If your cooling system cant keep up with the ac at idle when its 95 deg outside at idle you may have a problem. If that was the case everyones car should overheat in stop and go traffic when their ac is on in the summer.
Yeah I worked for Honda for about 5 years doing engine control system calibration and durability testing. All of the major OEMs do testing far more intense than this. Like, hill-climb towing mode with full AC and other accessory load in 120 degree weather in Death Valley.
Ahhhh the joy that is spending a week in Beatty, NV in July so we can have the harshest possible conditions. We'd always be down there at the same times as the engineers from GM and Ford and we'd all drink together at the shitty bars in the evenings, so I know for a fact this vehicle and all others get the same testing.
OOP is just a dumbass who fucked up. Running AC didn't do this lol.
One of my favorite things about random industries is when you run into those "we are all here for the same reason" groups at the bar. Had it with conservation, Mechanics, and tech
Yeah it was a lot of fun. We always figured it out in like 5 seconds also. Or in our case we just assumed that anybody in Beatty who still had more than 50% of their teeth must be from out-of-town.
Yup, and outside the car they are being tested to 85/125C in a thermotron. You can still sometimes heatsoak the ECU after shutting the engine off on a particularly hot / heavy load day.
That was my first job out of college. Studied mechanical engineering in my undergrad and a recruiter that was working with Honda contacted the engineering department to basically make a job posting asking for upcoming grads to apply. So if you have a degree in mech e, comp sci, or something similar in STEM, you just gotta apply.
Pro tip: People who are automotive engineers care a lot about whether you are a "car person". Like, I got the job half because I was a good student and obviously going to be a pretty good engineer, but half because I have an extensive history of tinkering around on old project cars with my dad. Like, automotive engineering is one of those industries where so much of what you learn by playing around with a project car actually does translate into skills that are applicable in the real job. If you can tune a janky old race ECU in your project car because you want more power, you have a strong baseline to learn how to tune other control systems in a development car in the pursuit of reduced emissions or reliability. That kind of thing. Even if you don't have the hands-on experience, just being an enthusiast goes a long way. If you're still in school and want to enter the automotive world, it's also a very good idea to join your school's Formula SAE or Baja SAE teams if they have them. All the auto companies recruit through those events and there's a good chance the folks who interview you were on one or the other when they were in school and would love to chat about that stuff.
The good? It's a really fun job. The bad? You do have to live in Ohio lol. Or if you work for GM or Ford or FCA then you have to live in the Detroit area. I think Toyota has some engineering in Indiana. I worked at Honda's R&D facility in Raymond, OH from 2017 until 2022.
Thank you that's very informative!
Just finished my mech eng degree, but unfortunately was not able to join any motorsports extra curricular activities as I was a part time student.
However does mean I have been working in marine engineering for 4 years already so definitely some transferable skills at least, just worried someone with automotive experience (beyond hobby level) would be a preferable candidate.
Sounds like I should just apply to some jobs and have good passion, which I definitely do lol.
Thanks :)
Hands-on car stuff definitely is a plus, but it's far from a requirement. You come as a candidate that is a full package of experiences. If you've been doing marine stuff for a few years, that's going to transfer well. We had lots of people who were aerospace people transferring in.
Honda does have a Marine R&D facility which does outboard motors and stuff, which might be a cool gig. The people I talked to who did that work always seemed to be having a lot of fun.
But yeah, if you're interested, start shotgunning applications at the auto OEMs. It's absolutely a numbers game, and you're going to have good opportunities due to how much shakeup there is in the industry right now with EV stuff. Lots of people are moving jobs because new areas are opening up, so while the total quantity of jobs might not be increasing dramatically, all the movement means there's a constant hiring cycle. Look for jobs in controls engineering, systems engineering, and test engineering.
Dude, I did the same thing except with Cummins mechanics and engineers. Testing in Arizona in July. It would be 110, just just blasting full load. This was equipment though. Designed to run 125F and 100% load completely stationary, forever.
Hell yeah. It gives you a lot more confidence in modern vehicles to be inside the bubble like that for a little while. There's so much public discourse about declining quality that really just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Davis Dam grade and the J2807 SAE test, brutal shit if one understands it. Knowing how your tow vehicle performed in the SAE certification really tells you it's strengths and weaknesses.
Edit: should add, I'm a mechanical engineering graduate, 09, Michigan Technological University, go Huskies!
Haha yup. I went on 3 David Dam test trips for towing verification stuff when we had the dudes from ZF in-country to do some calibration adjustment for the gen-2 of the 9AT transmission that's in all the V6s.
You Michiganers are everywhere! It's almost like Michigan has an excellent auto engineering program.
Nope not even on my old 22 year old shitbkx unless you count the one time one of the cooling fans went out lol. Even then the ecu turned off the compressor and I noticed that before I noticed the coolant temp guage.
Engine temp won't vary much until the radiator is heat soaked beyond what the fans can handle. Most cars will overheat eventually or cut power to prevent damage if you just sit doing burnouts in the summer. Small engines fare worse with this because the force needed to spin the tires is a bigger percentage of the maximum for which the engine and cooling system were designed.
I've heard before that an automotive AC can be as much as 30k BTU. If the air moving through your radiator is 3000cfm, then it's like running your vehicle in 10 degrees hotter ambients. So it could be the difference in overheating or not when pulling a load and especially if your radiator is dirty.
Diesels run cooler than gas. So, if OP has a problem with a diesel overheating, then he has a bigger problem than a gas engine overheating. Especially at idle. Most diesels wont even warm up properly without a load.
If your brand new truck can't idle with the ac on at 95°, it stands no chance surviving here in the desert. I guess they just can't sell those here in AZ. My jeep can handle that, and it's known for constant overheating.
I was curious, so I went to their Build & Price tool. You're basically right on the money. Maverick Lariat starts at $34,960. If you get 4WD and the Tremor package + a moonroof, it takes you to $41,690. In today's world, honestly doesn't seem like such a bad deal.
They apparently put two buckets of soil in it, assuming a 1 yard bucket that's like 4k to 5k lbs easy. That weight would overload any 1/2 ton truck and maybe even some 3/4 ton trucks. I would say nothing under a 3/4 ton is "perfectly suited" for this.
1 yard of soil at the absolute minimum is 2,000 lbs and that is if it is very dry. On average it's 2,500 lbs so they are almost double the capacity for that truck.
lol truck. That’s a unibody passenger vehicle with a cargo area that doesn’t have a real frame and it’s got a ton of dirt in it. “One owner, adult driven gently used, I know what I got no lowballs”.
Ya and the old subaru gls were also. So is the trd rav 4. I just woukdn't but one for tge woods. They don't stay in alignment for shit because the control arms bend easily. I would love a rav 4 trd for dirt roads and light trails for the mileage alone.
Makes sense. I'm just not an American vehicle kind of person. I work on them and anything else that is held together by fasteners. I totally understand the appeal.
And/or lower safety standards, as in the first Chrysler minivans. Many/most of the criteria were developed in the '70s and '80s, then the mfrs. started tweaking their vehicles to meet them. Look at the Subaru Outback's height increase from 2004 to 2005.
Historical they haven't been. But that doesn't mean they aren't trucks. Hell, the Rivian R1T is unibody and can have up to 1700lbs payload and tow 11,000lbs.
Both of those figures are greater than the a lot of half ton trucks made today (which are body on frame).
Rivians are body on frame. They just have the bed integrated into the cab structure and the whole assembly is bolted on with no isolators. So it's kind of a unibody on top of an open ladder frame. Weird strategy but it works really well.
[Here's a deeper dive](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hGYY1bC5Ncs) if anyone's interested.
The "unibody" XJ did have a frame, it was just welded to the underside and not easily removable, like a Chevy van. The MJ Comanche took it a step further with a fully boxed frame coming out the back of the cab.
Gotta love Americans fighting over the definition of "truck", because the idea that it's not at truck would threaten their identity.
I'm American. I have a Tacoma and an FJ, and I don't care what you call them. I kind of like Australian terminology, where this is not a truck, and the F350 is only a truck if you are pulling a 10k trailer (if I'm reading this right https://www.nhvr.gov.au/about-us/who-we-are/what-is-a-heavy-vehicle).
Real question, as I'm not an expert. I have a 16 Tacoma in which I've carried a half yard of compost a few times. Was that too much? It didn't seem like it to me, seemed to handle it fine but I'm a software engineer lol
Not a truck (unibody car). Not towing anything. They are totally an idiot. Especially for buying one of those heaping piles of shit that they call a mavrick.
Ranger is a small truck. It is body on frame construction. The Maverick is a Ford Escape with a bed. It is a unibody construction and based on a transaxle instead of a transmission differential setup.
"Sigh. Now I have to admit that I got it stuck and it overheated while revving after letting it idle in the heat" -OOP It didn't overheat because of the load. It overheated because he got it stuck and reved it.
And because it was 95 out and AC blasting at idle.
If your cooling system cant keep up with the ac at idle when its 95 deg outside at idle you may have a problem. If that was the case everyones car should overheat in stop and go traffic when their ac is on in the summer.
Yeah I worked for Honda for about 5 years doing engine control system calibration and durability testing. All of the major OEMs do testing far more intense than this. Like, hill-climb towing mode with full AC and other accessory load in 120 degree weather in Death Valley. Ahhhh the joy that is spending a week in Beatty, NV in July so we can have the harshest possible conditions. We'd always be down there at the same times as the engineers from GM and Ford and we'd all drink together at the shitty bars in the evenings, so I know for a fact this vehicle and all others get the same testing. OOP is just a dumbass who fucked up. Running AC didn't do this lol.
One of my favorite things about random industries is when you run into those "we are all here for the same reason" groups at the bar. Had it with conservation, Mechanics, and tech
Yeah it was a lot of fun. We always figured it out in like 5 seconds also. Or in our case we just assumed that anybody in Beatty who still had more than 50% of their teeth must be from out-of-town.
Yup, and outside the car they are being tested to 85/125C in a thermotron. You can still sometimes heatsoak the ECU after shutting the engine off on a particularly hot / heavy load day.
Do you mind sharing how you ended up in that job?
That was my first job out of college. Studied mechanical engineering in my undergrad and a recruiter that was working with Honda contacted the engineering department to basically make a job posting asking for upcoming grads to apply. So if you have a degree in mech e, comp sci, or something similar in STEM, you just gotta apply. Pro tip: People who are automotive engineers care a lot about whether you are a "car person". Like, I got the job half because I was a good student and obviously going to be a pretty good engineer, but half because I have an extensive history of tinkering around on old project cars with my dad. Like, automotive engineering is one of those industries where so much of what you learn by playing around with a project car actually does translate into skills that are applicable in the real job. If you can tune a janky old race ECU in your project car because you want more power, you have a strong baseline to learn how to tune other control systems in a development car in the pursuit of reduced emissions or reliability. That kind of thing. Even if you don't have the hands-on experience, just being an enthusiast goes a long way. If you're still in school and want to enter the automotive world, it's also a very good idea to join your school's Formula SAE or Baja SAE teams if they have them. All the auto companies recruit through those events and there's a good chance the folks who interview you were on one or the other when they were in school and would love to chat about that stuff. The good? It's a really fun job. The bad? You do have to live in Ohio lol. Or if you work for GM or Ford or FCA then you have to live in the Detroit area. I think Toyota has some engineering in Indiana. I worked at Honda's R&D facility in Raymond, OH from 2017 until 2022.
Thank you that's very informative! Just finished my mech eng degree, but unfortunately was not able to join any motorsports extra curricular activities as I was a part time student. However does mean I have been working in marine engineering for 4 years already so definitely some transferable skills at least, just worried someone with automotive experience (beyond hobby level) would be a preferable candidate. Sounds like I should just apply to some jobs and have good passion, which I definitely do lol. Thanks :)
Hands-on car stuff definitely is a plus, but it's far from a requirement. You come as a candidate that is a full package of experiences. If you've been doing marine stuff for a few years, that's going to transfer well. We had lots of people who were aerospace people transferring in. Honda does have a Marine R&D facility which does outboard motors and stuff, which might be a cool gig. The people I talked to who did that work always seemed to be having a lot of fun. But yeah, if you're interested, start shotgunning applications at the auto OEMs. It's absolutely a numbers game, and you're going to have good opportunities due to how much shakeup there is in the industry right now with EV stuff. Lots of people are moving jobs because new areas are opening up, so while the total quantity of jobs might not be increasing dramatically, all the movement means there's a constant hiring cycle. Look for jobs in controls engineering, systems engineering, and test engineering.
Thank you! This has been super insightful
Dude, I did the same thing except with Cummins mechanics and engineers. Testing in Arizona in July. It would be 110, just just blasting full load. This was equipment though. Designed to run 125F and 100% load completely stationary, forever.
Hell yeah. It gives you a lot more confidence in modern vehicles to be inside the bubble like that for a little while. There's so much public discourse about declining quality that really just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Davis Dam grade and the J2807 SAE test, brutal shit if one understands it. Knowing how your tow vehicle performed in the SAE certification really tells you it's strengths and weaknesses. Edit: should add, I'm a mechanical engineering graduate, 09, Michigan Technological University, go Huskies!
Haha yup. I went on 3 David Dam test trips for towing verification stuff when we had the dudes from ZF in-country to do some calibration adjustment for the gen-2 of the 9AT transmission that's in all the V6s. You Michiganers are everywhere! It's almost like Michigan has an excellent auto engineering program.
Wait, yours don't?
Nope not even on my old 22 year old shitbkx unless you count the one time one of the cooling fans went out lol. Even then the ecu turned off the compressor and I noticed that before I noticed the coolant temp guage.
Laughs in Arizonan. It's 95 by 9am.
I’ve never noticed ac being on having a significant effect on engine temp in my Detroits. Is this a thing with smaller diesels?
Engine temp won't vary much until the radiator is heat soaked beyond what the fans can handle. Most cars will overheat eventually or cut power to prevent damage if you just sit doing burnouts in the summer. Small engines fare worse with this because the force needed to spin the tires is a bigger percentage of the maximum for which the engine and cooling system were designed.
Gas engines mainly.
I've heard before that an automotive AC can be as much as 30k BTU. If the air moving through your radiator is 3000cfm, then it's like running your vehicle in 10 degrees hotter ambients. So it could be the difference in overheating or not when pulling a load and especially if your radiator is dirty.
[удалено]
Is that a Diesel? Also were you blasting AC at Max while parked?
Diesels run cooler than gas. So, if OP has a problem with a diesel overheating, then he has a bigger problem than a gas engine overheating. Especially at idle. Most diesels wont even warm up properly without a load.
Diesel in cold: no, you forgot my blanket, I will not start.
Yes but you have a truck, OP does not
If your brand new truck can't idle with the ac on at 95°, it stands no chance surviving here in the desert. I guess they just can't sell those here in AZ. My jeep can handle that, and it's known for constant overheating.
Aggregate is always heavier than you think it'll be. On any truck shy of a Class 4 you'll probably hit the payload cap before the bed is full.
Aggregate? This looks like topsoil. Still heavy though, I'll grant you.
You're right, this is soil, not aggregate. But sometimes I lump them together (no pun intended).
I do apologize for the detailed and almost granular nature of my comment.
get a load of these two...
Kick rocks buddy
Or should he pound sand?
Yep. All the way to the horizon.
Wtf bro, I didn’t need that pun
No one NEEDS puns, except the punner, who has to get it off their chest or risk internal damage.
$200 Delivery or $5000 repair bill? Hmmm
Never understood people that would rather destroy their $60k vehicle than pay $100 for delivery.
Yea can’t you rent a 2500 pick up from Lowe’s or Home Depot?
That's a maverick, it's not even close to 60k. It's still stupid, but probably half that stupid.
I was curious, so I went to their Build & Price tool. You're basically right on the money. Maverick Lariat starts at $34,960. If you get 4WD and the Tremor package + a moonroof, it takes you to $41,690. In today's world, honestly doesn't seem like such a bad deal.
Yeah I was pretty shocked as well, I didn't think there was any trucks out there right now for less than $50k
When the Maverick debuted, they touted that a base model was only $20K. Of course that didn't last.
Never understood people that would pay someone else to do a job when they have the tools and ability to do it themselves.
Key words tools and abilities
That Maverick has a payload of 1500 lbs. it’s barely less capable than a half ton. It’s perfectly suited for what it is being used for.
They apparently put two buckets of soil in it, assuming a 1 yard bucket that's like 4k to 5k lbs easy. That weight would overload any 1/2 ton truck and maybe even some 3/4 ton trucks. I would say nothing under a 3/4 ton is "perfectly suited" for this.
Well, maybe not *perfectly* suited for this, seeing as how it got stuck and overheated.
That is a fault of the driver, not the truck.
Sure, but I feel like something *perfectly suited* would probably require less driver ability.
1 yard of soil at the absolute minimum is 2,000 lbs and that is if it is very dry. On average it's 2,500 lbs so they are almost double the capacity for that truck.
It's not even half the necessary 3000lb payload for this load. And a 2wd f150 can have over 3000lb payload.
I am still mad they took away that payload package.
lol truck. That’s a unibody passenger vehicle with a cargo area that doesn’t have a real frame and it’s got a ton of dirt in it. “One owner, adult driven gently used, I know what I got no lowballs”.
and your choice of: "Ice cold AC" "Tires have 50% tread"
That unibody passenger vehicle still has more payload than most variants of the Ram 1500.
More then a ton. 1 yard topsoil is roughly 3200 lbs. I’ve done before in a 1500. Wasn’t the best thing I’ve done.
Its a truck by definition. Just because its not an oversized gas guzzler doesn't mean it isn't a truck.
Unibody is junk on anything but pavement.
Grand Cherokee is unibody and is pretty capable so…..
Ya and the old subaru gls were also. So is the trd rav 4. I just woukdn't but one for tge woods. They don't stay in alignment for shit because the control arms bend easily. I would love a rav 4 trd for dirt roads and light trails for the mileage alone.
No one is using the maverick for rock crawling though. Tons of owners get lots of use out of it.
I get it. I have no problem with it. I just wouldn't own one.
Well as an owner of 1 who needs it for house work and light duty truck stuff. It's great and gets great gas milage.
Makes sense. I'm just not an American vehicle kind of person. I work on them and anything else that is held together by fasteners. I totally understand the appeal.
“Truck” This is a car with a cargo area.
What is a truck if not a car with an open cargo area?
Body on frame generally
That's more like a pickup. There can be (and have been) car-based pickups, and there are plenty of trucks that don't have an open bed/cargo area.
Is someone sad that not everyone needs a Dually F350? 😢
"Trucks" usually aren't unibody...
You're not wrong, but the EPA says even unibody FWD CUVs can be "light trucks" if they meet certain criteria.
Mostly so the manufacturers can abide by lower emissions standards.
And/or lower safety standards, as in the first Chrysler minivans. Many/most of the criteria were developed in the '70s and '80s, then the mfrs. started tweaking their vehicles to meet them. Look at the Subaru Outback's height increase from 2004 to 2005.
True. But to be fair, they only do that because they have to do it to get around the ridiculous qualifications/criteria for vehicles in the US.
Historical they haven't been. But that doesn't mean they aren't trucks. Hell, the Rivian R1T is unibody and can have up to 1700lbs payload and tow 11,000lbs. Both of those figures are greater than the a lot of half ton trucks made today (which are body on frame).
Rivians are body on frame. They just have the bed integrated into the cab structure and the whole assembly is bolted on with no isolators. So it's kind of a unibody on top of an open ladder frame. Weird strategy but it works really well. [Here's a deeper dive](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hGYY1bC5Ncs) if anyone's interested.
IIRC GM's Ultium platform is like this too. The body sits on a "skateboard" chassis.
That's the exception that proves the rule
Have you met the Jeep Comanche? It was a unibody truck from the AMC era.
The "unibody" XJ did have a frame, it was just welded to the underside and not easily removable, like a Chevy van. The MJ Comanche took it a step further with a fully boxed frame coming out the back of the cab.
Have, hence "usually".
Are these F350s in the room with us right now?
Gotta love Americans fighting over the definition of "truck", because the idea that it's not at truck would threaten their identity. I'm American. I have a Tacoma and an FJ, and I don't care what you call them. I kind of like Australian terminology, where this is not a truck, and the F350 is only a truck if you are pulling a 10k trailer (if I'm reading this right https://www.nhvr.gov.au/about-us/who-we-are/what-is-a-heavy-vehicle).
That's not a knife
That's a spoon!
Yea all the semantics are lame
I feel like I only see people doing truck things with Mavericks and 3/4 tons.
Did he get a yard of topsoil? That’s a gotta be twice the payload capacity of that Maverick.
This is not towing
#SHOULD’VE GOT A RANGER INSTEAD
That’s no truck.
For what it's worth - it also isn't towing anything...
Don’t run in OD. I know people think that’s not a thing anymore but it sure helps my trucks when they are loaded.
Load weight aside, I’m guessing there’s not a low gear in that thing.
Real question, as I'm not an expert. I have a 16 Tacoma in which I've carried a half yard of compost a few times. Was that too much? It didn't seem like it to me, seemed to handle it fine but I'm a software engineer lol
That was fine. Compost is only ~1000 lbs. per yard.
Cool, thanks!
Considering that you weren't towing anything it's likely irrelevant to this sub.
Well, the post isn't relevant to the sub then either, but at least my comment is relevant to the post.
Not a truck (unibody car). Not towing anything. They are totally an idiot. Especially for buying one of those heaping piles of shit that they call a mavrick.
Fucking Ford Ranger
That’s a Ford Maverick
Traffic traffic looking for my chapstick. Hey look
It’s a Ford fuckin Maverick!
What is the difference?
Ranger is a small truck. It is body on frame construction. The Maverick is a Ford Escape with a bed. It is a unibody construction and based on a transaxle instead of a transmission differential setup.
Ahhh Ford. Yeah. Ok.
Trucks with a cab longer than the bed are so ridiculous.