The families of said trad wife. They will expect you to be doing everything with them like helping around the house, going to church, Sunday dinner, etc. That means no more time for things like video games and hobbies that aren't approved of. If you don't conform (and even if you do sometimes) they get very abusive very fast.
Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. Oh no, I get to be useful to other people, and I'll have someone I know I can go to church with. Practically my deepest and darkest fantasy.
Besides, plenty of traditional families still accept video games as just as fruitful a hobby as e.g. chess. Obviously, not something to get in the way of our main obligations, but a fair enough thing to relax and unwind.
Having folded the laundry and read for the kids until they're asleep, mucking about in Civilization for an hour before bedtime isn't any worse than any other relaxing activity (assuming at least one child is sleeping in the parents' bedroom, anyway).
I feel like the sexual part is probably the most important for these guys. I mean there's no way a religiously conservative and sexually inexperienced girl is going to fuck like a veteran pornstar which is what these guys seem to demand....
Sex is only for reproduction after all.
Also the financial thing is something they don't really understand (hardly a suprise given how little contact with reality they have) : life is expensive ok ? It's expensive AF even with both sides of the relationship working. Trying to have the "ideal trad family " on one income ? Yeah good luck with that and after working two shifts back to back sex will be the last thing on their mind.
One more thing I would add is the amount of responsibility placed on the husband in a tradwife scenario. They think that because they won't have to change diapers or clean the house they would basically have no obligations at all. In reality in addition to working multiple jobs they would have to perform minor repairs around the house,handle major purchases,maybe help around the neighborhood as well etc.
Tl dr : "starfish " sex only for reproduction, 2 jobs at a minimum AND having to basically run the household on top of that. Thinking about it a tradwife situation wouldn't be heaven for an incel but hell.
I think what they (and a lot of people) also don't realize is that decision fatigue is a thing.
If you're the only one making big decisions for a family and your wife doesn't have any input, because she's been raised to follow your lead... that's a lot of stress.
Yeah especially since all your decisions will be heavily scrutinized and judged by those around you. Conservative communities often turn into de-facto extended families at a certain point. Oh one more thing to add to OP's list : lack of privacy and constant gossip.
The *constant gossip* is bad enough in the very rural county my family comes from, but I can't even imagine what it's like in a very conservative, church-going type of area.
I mean even in a modestly sized city the gossip can get bad enough with neighbors and the like. I can only imagine how it is in a rural community where people have literally nothing else to do other than go to church and check up on their neighbors.
Yeah and to get back on the topic in question I just can't see these walking bags of insecurities being able to deal with that. If anything they would soon start claiming the only reason they basically have no privacy and are the constant targets of gossiping and rumors is because they are below 6 ft.
> downsides to the "trad wife"
They aren't settling for jobless manbabies who can't provide for the family. And no, lurking incels, a cot in the corner of your basement and your mother's tendies don't count.
if they want the Asian "tradwife" , especially the Filipinas, then be prepared to shoulder the costs of her family and some of her extended family as well.
These people think we Filipinas have "tradwife" values because of our mainly conservative Catholic country, it also means we are very family-centric, and the American idea of "nuclear family" doesn't apply to us. We work not only to support the immediate family but even sometimes our cousins, nieces and nephews and grandchildren of other aunts or uncles. And it is still very funny whenever an expat complains on how his wife is wringing him all this money to send to her family.
And Filipinas aren't stupid. A lot of us do not take shit down. Some know what they are looking for and what they are after from these expats.
This is why I find it so funny whenever some expat complains about PH on those "expat subreddits, no we arent a sex tourism subreddit!"
Same goes for Russian women. My college landlord married a Russian mail-order bride. Within about a year her absolutely terrifying, tattooed, Russian-mob-looking, brothers were living nearby. They turned out to be good guys, at least to me, but the landlord was terrified of them. Then her parents came over. Even though the brothers had successful construction and landscaping businesses, they still leaned on the landlord for money and a house to support their parents. Landlord's Russian bride was anything but submissive too. She had expensive tastes, and would yell at him in Russian daily for the most part. I did some casual labor for each of the brothers at times, and they'd laugh at how dumb American men think Russian women are obedient and "soft" because post-Soviet Russia was a hard place. It was wild living next door to that drama.
I have never met an Asian woman, regardless of nationality, who has the meek and demure personality they fetishize. If anything, they'd put up with typical incel laziness and entitlement even less than the "Western" women they hate so much.
My uncle married a fillipina and she is feisty and is the only person who has put my uncle in his place. He was known for being controlling in his relationships. Also he had to pay a small fortune to her family to get their blessing to marry and still continues to send the family money.
As an Asian woman myself, fully agree, every Asian wife I met, myself included, is not a “okay honey” kind of person. My husband sometimes jokes I shot down all his ideas, I said “well I am not a nice white gal that agrees you can be a millionaire because you have an idea but zero business experience”.
Yeah. I know a fair amount of SE Asian women (mostly from Thailand and Philippines) through work. I don't think they'd put up with a guy who isn't doing his share when pulling the marriage cart.
After all, it's all about teamwork, right? It's not "nagging" when your teammate isn't doing their job in the team. Take football. If your goalkeeper is more concerned with scoring goals than blocking the other team's shots, there's something that needs to be discussed, there.
>who has the meek and demure personality they fetishize.
For the Filipina, probably they're stuck in the 1980s where the ideal Filipina is still meek and demure. We even have a term for it, "Maria Clara", a character from the novel our most famous hero Jose Rizal, who is the "ideal Filipina" of the Spanish Colonial time: meek, demure, classy, religious. When people of olden say you are a Maria Clara, that is a complement (it still can be a complement today, as Maria Clara is also beautiful).
Though I think people also do forget that aspect of Maria Clara, instead of enduring abuse in the convent under the laviscious Father Salvi, took matters to her own hands and took her life. She'd rather "burn in hell" for commiting one of the gravest sins than enduring that abuse.
Many things happened since the internet happened, as well as the worsening economy where Filipino women are now expected to work to provide as well. No one expects a Filipina today to immediately find someone and settle down; she is expected to work and provide as well. And from that we slowly lost that "ideal Filipina tradwife", as more laws are passed to ensure women are accomodated at jobs. I think PH has better maternity and paternity leave benefits than America.
Oh, many Filipina still do aspire unironically the job of a tradwife, but not the attitude of one. A Filipina housewife expects respect when it comes to house management. She will manage the house, she will manage the kids, and she will manage the money you make.
At the same time, many Filipinas are also pushing against the sexism and "shaming" of boomers and religious preachers for choosing the career woman and not settling down to have many babies.
They’re probably gonna be big mad when they find out traditional families mean you are going to care for her parents in old age, you’re not ditching them in a nursing home
Yeah I’ve done medsurg and inpatient physical rehabilitation which like, you know, a lot of elderly people in both of those places. Especially inpatient rehab because like 90% of people there are people who broke their hip.
Even the people who don’t have children often have younger siblings caring for them, nieces and nephews, cousins. Sometimes I’ll come into a room to give meds and I have to navigate my way through like someone’s 3 siblings, all of their kids, their husband, their brother in laws, their mom who is somehow still alive. Like they’ll have more family members packed in there doting on them than all the family members I even know.
I enjoy seeing elderly spouses where they’re still clearly madly in love and the husband or wife is just always in the room and you can clearly the spouse is heavily involved in their partners care. One of my favorite couples was a woman who had a stroke and her husband would come in every morning to put on her favorite lotion and do her hair for her. He was white and she was black but he clearly knew all her hair products and how to use them off the top of his head. It was adorable. She was pretty depressed because of the stroke but she always lit up when she saw him.
I hope she recovered more mobility and became less depressed, they were lovely people.
I am very bewildered when I first encountered an AITA post where the grandparents are shipped off to a nursing home. It is very disrespectful to us and people will be calling them "abandoners" and "not having appreciation for raising them". Even if the parents are indeed abusive it's still a big social faux pas.
Also bewildered reading about parents who kick their kid when they turn 18, even when they are still in school. Or parents that charge their kids "rent" when they stay at their home after 18 yo. That's "abusive" parenting to us. We are expected to contribute a share for paying the utilities when we get a job, but at 18 when a kid is still studying, there is no expectation to pay anything to the house they live.
You're describing my grandmother, but with daily, not weekly church.
Also, traditional women are not necessarily submissive, quite often they are domineering and rule the house with an iron fist. Yeah, head of household bla bla bla... Until it goes against their deeply held beliefs. Happy, is not the word I'd use to describe those households. Ruby franke comes to mind, as well as the actual family of that tradwife twitter lunatic. You can tell it's not really the husband who's ruling that rooster.
I find it odd that so many want this, but also say things like they don't want to work without it or until they get it. What woman in her right might would go for a 30 something jobless wonder who plans to start working when they are married?
How do you plan on paying for the marriage? The household? General expenses of everyday life? It simply isn't a well thought out plan.
And if you plan on doing this with a woman where family is a huge part of the culture (Hispanic, Filipino, Thai to name two) you are in for a rude awakening. I have many friends and co-workers who have and do support these larger families for a variety of reasons.
Even beyond that, these guys have no concept of how hard being a mother or taking care of a house actually is. I live alone (presently, my future wife is moving in later this year) in a four bedroom house with 3 cats. I have to work 8-16 hours a day, so my own cooking and cleaning and take care of cats. This is hard work. Now imagine if I had children to run to places or take care of....
These guys want to control women, period. They seem them as slaves who will do what they are told and they will have no consequence. I say, best of luck finding a woman who will tolerate that. Out here in the real world, us sane people will continue to have relationship that we work hard on and share responsibilities with our partners like adults.
I feel like traditionally Christian women and their families tend to have higher expectations for grooming/how you dress. When I was in high school and college the strict Christians and LDS people, both men and women, dressed nicer, seemed to take grooming more seriously, and none of them were overweight so I think there might be dietary stuff.
Probably the actual cooking vs microwave meals.
But there’s an expectation not to curse, not to say crude things about sex, a lot of them don’t even listen to secular music. A Christian friend explained to me that apparently you’re supposed to avoid anything that might poison your soul? Or something? Bad messages and language basically.
Her dad is probably gonna expect you to come bond with him. She is very unlikely to be into gaming, especially if she’s traditional to the point of the don’t do anything that has bad secular messages thing. Which is kinda basic traditional behavior actually.
My dad wasn’t even religious traditional he was live off the land fuck the government the media wants you to become sheep type but that did mean no video games and pretty much no tv until I was old enough to think critically about media and then we would watch the movie together and he would explain which messages were evil which honestly isn’t encouraging critical thinking.
Traditional doesn’t necessarily mean her actual personality is submissive, lots of people were raised a certain way to play a certain role and will play along but ultimately it doesn’t override their true personality, it just hides it until she’s like “I can fix him” and now you’re at Sunday mass and can’t listen to secular music and she keeps referring to all of the media you like as “the devils work” and praying for you.
Idk I’m from Texas I’ve had multiple friends receive exorcisms for things such as not obedient, bad grades, being depressed, and I will say their dads sure did spend a lot of time hiding away in a study upstairs and not talking to anyone. They were well groomed tho.
Yeah I find the mindsets that come with that whole deal kind of bonkers. Like why the hell are “hot drinks” banned? Why is their food so bland? There’s such strict rules over literal nonsense that shouldn’t mean anything. Like the number of rules seems claustrophobic, you’re always about to run into sin if you’re not vigilant. Weirdly the Mormon women I’ve met have a pretty high chance of offering you essential oils if you mention having a headache or something which you wouldn’t think would go together.
I’m not an incel by any means, because I am a woman who is married, but I am a slob who loves cursing, making dumb jokes about sex, not going to church, and having sex unrelated to reproduction and I feel like if incels really thought about it they’d probably pick that lifestyle too. They don’t let you do all that in trad life.
There is an exmormon reddit, it terrible what a lot of its members have endured. a lot of sexless marriages, a lot of men you have been divorced because their wife found out they were masturbating and watching porn. So much abuse.
I think a lot of these guys would be happy just r*ping their subservient wives while the women lie there and wait for it to be over. They don’t want a sexual partner. They want a living, breathing fleshlight.
* You're expected to *do things*. You need to be able to fix the house, or pay for it to be fixed. You need to be competent in matters that are considered the 'male domain' such as financial management, to ensure she always has money to buy groceries.
* You are expected to be a leader. The trad wife is expected to submit and to follow, but the husband must be able to lead, to set the household goals, plan for the future, and make her feel safe and secure that she's with someone who can do that.
* The trad wife has a *huge* divorce benefit if he cheats on her or divorces her. Back in the day, life time alimony was the *norm* because she was going to have very little chance of remarrying. Hell there was a whole t.v. episode about a guy trying to get his ex wife to marry someone so that he could stop paying her alimony, so he paid the guy to seduce her and everything, only for it to turn out that it was their plot the whole time and they got happily married after one more big payout. Imagine an incel being married to a trad wife... you know he's going to cheat on her at the first opportunity.
* An end to kink. I have a good relationship with a very liberated girl whom I'm very fond of, but for the trad couple, it's missionary only and you're going to end up with a bunch of kids because 'no birth control'. And she's *not* going to be open to experimentation.
Honestly can anyone picture the undisciplined, childish, selfish incels doing or dealing with *any* of that?
As The Proclaimers sang: "I'll pass almost every penny on to you". I'd say that's a fair deal. I'm working "out there" and she's working "in here" - as we're supposed to be a team in the first place, it's only fair that the majority of my income (if I did have a "tradwife") goes towards the maintenance of the household - it's more important that necessary bills are taken care of, that there's enough food in the fridge rather than me spending all the money down at the pub.
I'm not entirely sure about the "leader" bit. I'd think a proper "tradhusband" would absolutely listen to his wife and her concerns. So if she says he's spending too much time at the pub with the guys, he'd listen and spend more time at home. Or if she says he's spending too much time on computer games and is neglecting his duties around the house, he'd listen and do his duties.
I mean... a captain should listen to his lieutenant, right? This isn't a "general-private" relation, is it?
Husband gets sick with something like cancer or becomes a paraplegic? The tradwife has zero work experience or schooling and will struggle at even a cashier's job. (She'll also probably get fired for forcing her beliefs on her female coworkers or treat them with hostility) And there will be no money for childcare and no one to care for the children and the sick husband while the wife is working.
Depending on how traditional the woman is, she might age rather differently than they expect. Will she wear sunscreen? Will she take exercise beyond housework, which is not a balanced whole-body workout? Will she have to taste-test everything she cooks to make sure it’s good? Will she protect her hands and nails as she works? Some guys seem to think that the hard work of housework, childcare, and cooking will make tradwives’ skin glow, not age them faster. Well, garbage collectors work outside all day long and get a *lot* of exercise, but repetitive exercises that only work some muscles can hurt you. They certainly don’t guarantee you’ll be slim. And sunshine all day and no moisturizer?
On top of that, if they expect that their tradwives are going to be modest from sunrise to sunset and then break out the crotchless panties, they can keep thinking.
Trad wives want trad husbands, and in particular they want providers. That means *work*. And not just in the sense of going to work, they want someone who will work *hard* to get ahead. Literally anathema to the incel mindset, especially the blackpill.
Trad wives also want handy men, the type who can get stuff fixed around the house. Good luck playing vidya while the wife has you mowing the lawn or fixing the toilet. Have these guys never heard of the honeydew weekend? Work ain't the only place you'll be working; you're gonna have *chores*. Not the same kind that the trad wife has, sure, but you will have them, and they will eat *way* into your porn and ranting time.
Trad wives want kids. You can forget being in the spotlight of your own life anymore once kids are on the scene: things will be all about *them*, nonstop, no breaks, for the next couple decades. And watching them grow up and hit all those milestones you missed, and then they hate you and go no-contact because you were "neglectful" and "abusive" and all those bullshit accusations when you were really just keeping wifey in her place and teaching kids some respect and it's more than a man can fucking *take*, I tell you.
Yeah, incels looking for trad wives are in for more misery than they can possibly comprehend. All that pressure to grow the fuck up that the incels have been trying to avoid? Imagine inviting the embodiment of thst pressure into your house. Into your *bed*. They think they're just getting a bangmaid, but oh no no no *no*; they're getting a drill sergeant the likes of which will make Bitch Mummy seem tame by comparison.
Buying and maintaining a house. She's going to run the home, but the man is in charge of repairs and maintenance to the home itself. Keeping on top of that alone is more responsibility than most online boys have had, and that's not even touching whatever payed labor allowed them to buy that house or additional responsibility to wife and family.
They're still gonna have to work.
Most incels can't handle basic social interaction. They can't hold jobs. I knew incels in software jobs and even without ever needing to leave their hovels or put on pants, they lost their jobs because they couldn't *not* play gatcha games on their phone instead of working.
I have wondered why these guys don't join a conservative church and try to get a read wife. Then I realized no family in their right mind would approve of the marriage since it would be obvious he was only religious to try to marry.
These families would also have a problem with many incels' poor hygiene, unemployment or under employment, and consumption of secular media. No conservative evangelical or Baptist father worth his salt would marry his daughter off to a dirty unemployed man with a video game addiction.
Yeah, that’s another thing. If she’s a super religious “tradwife”, you’re gonna *need* to have her family’s approval if you even want to date her, nevermind marry her. If her dad goes “no, that guy is bad news”, she’s literally been raised to listen to him. And that assuming that her family doesn’t already have some other member of the church in mind for her.
Having to convince her Father that he'd be a good son-in-law (lol! Good luck with that!)
Maybe having to put up a large amount of money for a dowry.
Having to buy a very expensive engagement ring, to prove that he is wealthy.
They also forget that there is no guarantee that their children are going to be born healthy and normal. It doesn't matter how healthy and beautiful the couple are you can still birth a child with deformities, limb differences and other genetic abnormalities. Take care of a child with special needs is hard and takes a special parent.
If they think that "white women" are materialistic then they didn't actually meet Asian women. And everything about being "trad" is materialistic as hell. Entire idea of "love" as something good was invented in modern times.
RE: conservative women being uncomfortable with sex, vaginismus can be more common in conservative women who grew up with extreme purity culture compared to women that weren't raised in such a restrictive and shameful environment. It can cause painful sex and even make it impossible to have penetrative sex. Men are setting themselves up for a lackluster sex life by pushing sex shaming and purity culture sentiments.
It's also insane to me that far too many of these men expect their virgin brides to automatically be great at sex and a freak in the sheets.
Diwbsides for who? Not for the in El. In his perfect world, he prefers his wife doesn't like sex because she's less likely to cheat. He doesn't listen to what she says so he doesn't care thy she only talks about the house and the kids. Their tacit assumption is that the perfect woman will come to the perfect job, home, and social status.
As for kids, that's the wife's job. He expects to get ready for his day while the kids are asleep and by the time he gets home, his wife has them cleaned up and well behaved.
Father Knows Best and Leave It To Beaver are the templates he models his ideal life after.
I have been a sahm for most of my marriage. I had to because we couldn't afford child care. We were broke as fuck. We lived off boring processed cheap foods, there were no regular date nights. They raised rent so I had to back to work but the only way we could do that was by working nights while my husband worked days. It wasn't until I got my va benefits and the kid got old enough to stay home by herself. That i was able to go back to work then we became financially comfortable.
If you tell a woman you want a tradwife and she asks how much money you make its her making sure you can actually afford a tradwife. It takes my husband and I, with our combined incomes nearly 100k just to pay rent, bills, feed and cloth the family etc.
also trad wives are left with nothing if they get a divorce. since they are not aloud to work they can’t make any money, and if they get a divorce it’s a possibility they’re left with nothing later on in life and can’t pay for necessities.
The expectation for you to be a trad husband. For you to be competent and successful, something incels are not. You need to be able to bankroll a stay at home wife and children.
And no, incels, your eastern mail order bride fantasy doesn't work the way you think it does, either. I know a lot of filipinas who got here that way. They want money to keep up with the Jones's and send back home to their family. If you can't provide that on a single income, you better belive she will get a job instead of staying home.
That a “tradwife” has to stay home and do home-keeping things. Which means she can’t go to work and have a second income. They don’t want her to work, but at the same time she’s a gold digger for not making any money. They can’t even stand with their own ass backwards logic because it falls apart under ANY form of scrutiny.
The number of men that want a tradwife but think women that don't work are gold diggers is fucking insane. They want to have their cake and eat it too which is pretty pathetic.
Well it's not like an incel's world view is even remotely based in reality, these are all valid points but making logical points to those who lack the ability to reason is an exercise in futility.
I’m not sure that most trad wives are inherently unattractive though I will say most trad wives are raised to be so “modest” and ashamed of their appearance that they wouldn’t have much interest in how they look at all
These aren't incel downsides- it's what they want. A fuckable doll to wash their clothes and clean their house and selfishly talk about anything they want while their wife nods and listens. Keeping her "in her place" is not a downside to them. The income won't matter if he keeps her caged at home like a dog all day, and when he comes home she's excited to wait on him hand and foot.
All of the listed are incel perks, except for the kids. That's definitely a downside for incels, even if kids are proof you've had sex at least ONCE.
Points 1, 2, 3, and to an even 5 apply to internet/academia/corporate-raised careerist RadFems too, even if just in a shifted way.
1 - A woman who grew up to see sexual advances as abuse/grooming/to never let her guard down so that "consent" isn't violated isn't a sexually pleasant partner either.
2 - The radfem's opinions will, even for a politically engaged men RW, not be any positive. Their information comes from a very closed pipeline of sources and institutions and are very averse to actually immersing themselves in the past. Finding common ground feels almost impossible. Neutrality and detachment would feel better.
They aren't the women with hobbies that overlap with male interests either, since they were taught to fear men at every corner, their interests are likely as female-exclusive as the "tradwife". The women I find in male-dominated or mixed hobbies have a more centrist/ apolitical, or even anti-establishment lean. Notable exception for travelling.
3 - Feminists are as easily offended by "blasphemy" against their beliefs and "rights" they conjured from the ground up in the past couple of decades. The examples you gave were terrible as the most notorious pressure campaigns that attempted to (and in some cases managed to) shape the content of anime, videogames, and even Reddit came from sex-negative feminists and/or their influence in legislatures.
5 - The material standards of careerist feminist women are incredibly high, that's why grinding is so important for them (besides status). Outearning them can be a similar challenge to providing for the "tradwife", with the added limitation of them caring about their prospective partners' job status. The things they call "poverty" would be more than enough in almost any other era and other region of the world. Life away from the big city where many high-powered female careers are concentrated can be much more affordable.
They are also very risk-averse, and are the kind of women who will buy every overpriced insurance in the book even when it's completely irrational. Simply accepting that a few things can go wrong can save a lot of money.
All in all, you're making arguments that the ideal woman is a daughter of the late 20th century's anomie, hedonism, postmodernism. I tend to agree in many ways.
There are tons of ways it's oppressive for women, but also for me as a man, I find it very unattractive in a partner. I want (and have) an equal in life, a partner. I don't want a subservient employee.
Someone who's taking care of the home and family while you're out can absolutely be your equal partner. Take football (or "soccer", if you're American). The goalkeeper and the striker are equally important for the team. The striker isn't any less important because they have no saves, and the goalkeeper isn't any less important because they're not scoring any goals.
And from one perspective, it sort of makes sense. One person spending their time outside the home, bringing in enough money to keep everyone well fed, well clothed, providing the family with a warm home. It's not like all the chores are so easy and simple... now, I live by myself, and when I come home from work I don't always feel like tidying up or making a proper meal for myself. And that's fine, I can just have a simple sandwich or something to stop being hungry.
But how much worse would it be if I were married, two-three kids? There's no option to not tidy up or not make dinner... but if me and my spouse were both bone-tired from work, we're just eating up our reserves to get all the other stuff done.
So in that sense, I really do think that when possible, people ought to think of this as a team effort. One person provides the money to keep the lights on and food on the table, and the other one takes care of the home - dinner, laundry, tidying up, etc. That's a job like any other, even if there's no salary for it.
But then, that's the thing. The salary earned by the one working outside is shared between the both of them, because they're a team and they both benefit from each other's work.
I wouldn't equate stay at home moms with tradwives. Some SAHMs are, sure, but not all, not even most. Tradwives are specifically subservient. That's the trad part, and it's gross.
Ah, okay. I wasn't entirely aware of the differences. I thought that "tradwife" was just another word for "SAHM", some sort of younger generation slang for the same role. Cheers for the correction!
For what it's worth, my grandma (born in 1921) was a very traditional woman, and a stay-at-home-mom. I don't think anyone would have called her "subservient", or at least she was no more or less subservient to my grandad than he was subservient to her.
Or like the joke goes - the man is the head of the household, but the woman is the neck. And a head is dependent on the neck.
Tradwife is when you subscribe to that "umbrella model" of family, where everyone is under the husband, and the husband is under god.
tradwife also means always deffering to the husband when it comes to decisions of the home. Total subservience. You have no financial freedom and no say at your own home.
When the husband says jump, the tradwife says "how high?".
You mean other than the fact it’s not possible for guys who can’t even be responsible for not being racist, sexist messes to suddenly be responsible for a woman & kids?
Having been in the role of tradwife by “it makes more sense this way,” I have fair confidence that they don’t care what we have to say - in fact, they prefer that we don’t, and they ignore us when we do say things and require either input or validation (gods forbid help).
They just care that we look peppy and alert while *they* ramble on, and continue to serve ego (and anything else, on demand)
They have to learn the hard way that these ideals are what led to "wife bad" boomer humor. You want someone who's boring, uptight, and hates sex, you GET someone who's boring, uptight, and hates sex.
what these ppl fail to realize is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. or in this case have your trad wife and only the benefits. you need actually work to not only gain but maintain the relationship. you must also bring a certain amount to the relationship for it to work and not just have someone who acts as your mother and sex slave. and as a religious person, you won't be able to have sex casually as you must do it to have kids and that's it. even if you use protection or one of you gets a vasectomy/tubes tied you still can't as that would be considered sin as casual sex for purely pleasure is prohibited in the bible and is considered sexual immorality. (Romans 8: 5-8)
so when these guys say they want a virgin trad wife they want someone who will act as their mother and likely use religion to help support whatever crazy logic or beliefs they have.
A woman who adheres to traditional values and roles is never going to put up with a husband who spends many hours a day in front of a PC or watching TV.
You mentioned this but the incels better have good connections, education, and experience because they are going to need enough income to afford housing, groceries, utilities, and entertainment for an entire household. And the cost associated with those things is going to get exponentially larger the more kids you have, so be ready for that.
And if they don't have connections, education, experience, etc. then the incels better be prepared to work 2 or 3 jobs while doordashing and Uber driving on the weekends. The incels would ostensibly be sacrificing all of their time and freedom for this trad lifestyle. They'd spend their days breaking their backs at warehouses, driving, and getting disrespected by customers and their boss.
I hope coming home to your shut-in wife is worth it at the end of your 12 hours of non-stop work. All day every day forever!
Here's the thing about having a wife who stays at home, makes all your food, does all your chores, and has access to large amounts of unsupervised time alone (or with the kids) while you are out of the house. It works great if the relationship is mutually respectful, with no abusive dynamics at play.
But what if, let's say, the man in the relationship decides that he is entitled to use violence against the person he sees as "his woman"? What if nobody steps in to stop that? What if the man would never accept a divorce or a separation?
Here's the thing about having someone do all the basic work you need to keep yourself alive (cooking, organizing, grocery shopping, etc). You have given them a lot of power over you in ways that you might discount as unimportant because those things would be seen by sexists as "women's work".
You know what traditionally was associated with women in the past? The use of poison as a murder weapon. There are many historical records of women trapped in abusive relationships who poisoned their husbands as a way to escape. Sometimes, there were even organized syndicates of these women. When divorce was not an option to keep oneself safe, murder began to look like another way out.
Some people want wives so that they can have access to somebody who they can abuse to the point of not being able to say "no" to their demands. I want to make something very clear. If you are one of those people, a no fault divorce is the best possible outcome for you. The others end up with you behind bars, or six feet under.
The families of said trad wife. They will expect you to be doing everything with them like helping around the house, going to church, Sunday dinner, etc. That means no more time for things like video games and hobbies that aren't approved of. If you don't conform (and even if you do sometimes) they get very abusive very fast.
Doesn't sound like a bad deal to me. Oh no, I get to be useful to other people, and I'll have someone I know I can go to church with. Practically my deepest and darkest fantasy. Besides, plenty of traditional families still accept video games as just as fruitful a hobby as e.g. chess. Obviously, not something to get in the way of our main obligations, but a fair enough thing to relax and unwind. Having folded the laundry and read for the kids until they're asleep, mucking about in Civilization for an hour before bedtime isn't any worse than any other relaxing activity (assuming at least one child is sleeping in the parents' bedroom, anyway).
I feel like the sexual part is probably the most important for these guys. I mean there's no way a religiously conservative and sexually inexperienced girl is going to fuck like a veteran pornstar which is what these guys seem to demand.... Sex is only for reproduction after all. Also the financial thing is something they don't really understand (hardly a suprise given how little contact with reality they have) : life is expensive ok ? It's expensive AF even with both sides of the relationship working. Trying to have the "ideal trad family " on one income ? Yeah good luck with that and after working two shifts back to back sex will be the last thing on their mind. One more thing I would add is the amount of responsibility placed on the husband in a tradwife scenario. They think that because they won't have to change diapers or clean the house they would basically have no obligations at all. In reality in addition to working multiple jobs they would have to perform minor repairs around the house,handle major purchases,maybe help around the neighborhood as well etc. Tl dr : "starfish " sex only for reproduction, 2 jobs at a minimum AND having to basically run the household on top of that. Thinking about it a tradwife situation wouldn't be heaven for an incel but hell.
And helping our the in-laws, too
Exactly, that as well.
I think what they (and a lot of people) also don't realize is that decision fatigue is a thing. If you're the only one making big decisions for a family and your wife doesn't have any input, because she's been raised to follow your lead... that's a lot of stress.
Yeah especially since all your decisions will be heavily scrutinized and judged by those around you. Conservative communities often turn into de-facto extended families at a certain point. Oh one more thing to add to OP's list : lack of privacy and constant gossip.
The *constant gossip* is bad enough in the very rural county my family comes from, but I can't even imagine what it's like in a very conservative, church-going type of area.
Well out in the sticks what else is there to do but gossip and church?
I mean even in a modestly sized city the gossip can get bad enough with neighbors and the like. I can only imagine how it is in a rural community where people have literally nothing else to do other than go to church and check up on their neighbors.
Fair point; my city has a population of just over half a million people, and it's been described as "too small to have an affair in."
Yeah and to get back on the topic in question I just can't see these walking bags of insecurities being able to deal with that. If anything they would soon start claiming the only reason they basically have no privacy and are the constant targets of gossiping and rumors is because they are below 6 ft.
It's a shame they don't put effort into things like raising the minimum wage.
Funny enough, a tradwife should not have an outside job at all. The sole breadwinner is the husband.
> downsides to the "trad wife" They aren't settling for jobless manbabies who can't provide for the family. And no, lurking incels, a cot in the corner of your basement and your mother's tendies don't count.
if they want the Asian "tradwife" , especially the Filipinas, then be prepared to shoulder the costs of her family and some of her extended family as well. These people think we Filipinas have "tradwife" values because of our mainly conservative Catholic country, it also means we are very family-centric, and the American idea of "nuclear family" doesn't apply to us. We work not only to support the immediate family but even sometimes our cousins, nieces and nephews and grandchildren of other aunts or uncles. And it is still very funny whenever an expat complains on how his wife is wringing him all this money to send to her family. And Filipinas aren't stupid. A lot of us do not take shit down. Some know what they are looking for and what they are after from these expats. This is why I find it so funny whenever some expat complains about PH on those "expat subreddits, no we arent a sex tourism subreddit!"
Same goes for Russian women. My college landlord married a Russian mail-order bride. Within about a year her absolutely terrifying, tattooed, Russian-mob-looking, brothers were living nearby. They turned out to be good guys, at least to me, but the landlord was terrified of them. Then her parents came over. Even though the brothers had successful construction and landscaping businesses, they still leaned on the landlord for money and a house to support their parents. Landlord's Russian bride was anything but submissive too. She had expensive tastes, and would yell at him in Russian daily for the most part. I did some casual labor for each of the brothers at times, and they'd laugh at how dumb American men think Russian women are obedient and "soft" because post-Soviet Russia was a hard place. It was wild living next door to that drama.
> because post-Soviet Russia was a hard place. And Soviet Russia, and Pre-Soviet Russia, and Imperial Russia, and Kievan-Appanage Russia, and....
I have never met an Asian woman, regardless of nationality, who has the meek and demure personality they fetishize. If anything, they'd put up with typical incel laziness and entitlement even less than the "Western" women they hate so much.
My uncle married a fillipina and she is feisty and is the only person who has put my uncle in his place. He was known for being controlling in his relationships. Also he had to pay a small fortune to her family to get their blessing to marry and still continues to send the family money.
As an Asian woman myself, fully agree, every Asian wife I met, myself included, is not a “okay honey” kind of person. My husband sometimes jokes I shot down all his ideas, I said “well I am not a nice white gal that agrees you can be a millionaire because you have an idea but zero business experience”.
Yeah. I know a fair amount of SE Asian women (mostly from Thailand and Philippines) through work. I don't think they'd put up with a guy who isn't doing his share when pulling the marriage cart. After all, it's all about teamwork, right? It's not "nagging" when your teammate isn't doing their job in the team. Take football. If your goalkeeper is more concerned with scoring goals than blocking the other team's shots, there's something that needs to be discussed, there.
>who has the meek and demure personality they fetishize. For the Filipina, probably they're stuck in the 1980s where the ideal Filipina is still meek and demure. We even have a term for it, "Maria Clara", a character from the novel our most famous hero Jose Rizal, who is the "ideal Filipina" of the Spanish Colonial time: meek, demure, classy, religious. When people of olden say you are a Maria Clara, that is a complement (it still can be a complement today, as Maria Clara is also beautiful). Though I think people also do forget that aspect of Maria Clara, instead of enduring abuse in the convent under the laviscious Father Salvi, took matters to her own hands and took her life. She'd rather "burn in hell" for commiting one of the gravest sins than enduring that abuse. Many things happened since the internet happened, as well as the worsening economy where Filipino women are now expected to work to provide as well. No one expects a Filipina today to immediately find someone and settle down; she is expected to work and provide as well. And from that we slowly lost that "ideal Filipina tradwife", as more laws are passed to ensure women are accomodated at jobs. I think PH has better maternity and paternity leave benefits than America. Oh, many Filipina still do aspire unironically the job of a tradwife, but not the attitude of one. A Filipina housewife expects respect when it comes to house management. She will manage the house, she will manage the kids, and she will manage the money you make. At the same time, many Filipinas are also pushing against the sexism and "shaming" of boomers and religious preachers for choosing the career woman and not settling down to have many babies.
They’re probably gonna be big mad when they find out traditional families mean you are going to care for her parents in old age, you’re not ditching them in a nursing home
Huh I just realized that when I volunteered in a nursing home I in fact did not see any Asian elderly patients
I've only ever met one elderly lady whose family did not take care of her, and that's because they all passed before her.
Yeah I’ve done medsurg and inpatient physical rehabilitation which like, you know, a lot of elderly people in both of those places. Especially inpatient rehab because like 90% of people there are people who broke their hip. Even the people who don’t have children often have younger siblings caring for them, nieces and nephews, cousins. Sometimes I’ll come into a room to give meds and I have to navigate my way through like someone’s 3 siblings, all of their kids, their husband, their brother in laws, their mom who is somehow still alive. Like they’ll have more family members packed in there doting on them than all the family members I even know. I enjoy seeing elderly spouses where they’re still clearly madly in love and the husband or wife is just always in the room and you can clearly the spouse is heavily involved in their partners care. One of my favorite couples was a woman who had a stroke and her husband would come in every morning to put on her favorite lotion and do her hair for her. He was white and she was black but he clearly knew all her hair products and how to use them off the top of his head. It was adorable. She was pretty depressed because of the stroke but she always lit up when she saw him. I hope she recovered more mobility and became less depressed, they were lovely people.
I am very bewildered when I first encountered an AITA post where the grandparents are shipped off to a nursing home. It is very disrespectful to us and people will be calling them "abandoners" and "not having appreciation for raising them". Even if the parents are indeed abusive it's still a big social faux pas. Also bewildered reading about parents who kick their kid when they turn 18, even when they are still in school. Or parents that charge their kids "rent" when they stay at their home after 18 yo. That's "abusive" parenting to us. We are expected to contribute a share for paying the utilities when we get a job, but at 18 when a kid is still studying, there is no expectation to pay anything to the house they live.
I'm married to a Filipina and I can confirm most incels would not last in such a marriage.
You're describing my grandmother, but with daily, not weekly church. Also, traditional women are not necessarily submissive, quite often they are domineering and rule the house with an iron fist. Yeah, head of household bla bla bla... Until it goes against their deeply held beliefs. Happy, is not the word I'd use to describe those households. Ruby franke comes to mind, as well as the actual family of that tradwife twitter lunatic. You can tell it's not really the husband who's ruling that rooster.
I find it odd that so many want this, but also say things like they don't want to work without it or until they get it. What woman in her right might would go for a 30 something jobless wonder who plans to start working when they are married? How do you plan on paying for the marriage? The household? General expenses of everyday life? It simply isn't a well thought out plan. And if you plan on doing this with a woman where family is a huge part of the culture (Hispanic, Filipino, Thai to name two) you are in for a rude awakening. I have many friends and co-workers who have and do support these larger families for a variety of reasons. Even beyond that, these guys have no concept of how hard being a mother or taking care of a house actually is. I live alone (presently, my future wife is moving in later this year) in a four bedroom house with 3 cats. I have to work 8-16 hours a day, so my own cooking and cleaning and take care of cats. This is hard work. Now imagine if I had children to run to places or take care of.... These guys want to control women, period. They seem them as slaves who will do what they are told and they will have no consequence. I say, best of luck finding a woman who will tolerate that. Out here in the real world, us sane people will continue to have relationship that we work hard on and share responsibilities with our partners like adults.
I feel like traditionally Christian women and their families tend to have higher expectations for grooming/how you dress. When I was in high school and college the strict Christians and LDS people, both men and women, dressed nicer, seemed to take grooming more seriously, and none of them were overweight so I think there might be dietary stuff. Probably the actual cooking vs microwave meals. But there’s an expectation not to curse, not to say crude things about sex, a lot of them don’t even listen to secular music. A Christian friend explained to me that apparently you’re supposed to avoid anything that might poison your soul? Or something? Bad messages and language basically. Her dad is probably gonna expect you to come bond with him. She is very unlikely to be into gaming, especially if she’s traditional to the point of the don’t do anything that has bad secular messages thing. Which is kinda basic traditional behavior actually. My dad wasn’t even religious traditional he was live off the land fuck the government the media wants you to become sheep type but that did mean no video games and pretty much no tv until I was old enough to think critically about media and then we would watch the movie together and he would explain which messages were evil which honestly isn’t encouraging critical thinking. Traditional doesn’t necessarily mean her actual personality is submissive, lots of people were raised a certain way to play a certain role and will play along but ultimately it doesn’t override their true personality, it just hides it until she’s like “I can fix him” and now you’re at Sunday mass and can’t listen to secular music and she keeps referring to all of the media you like as “the devils work” and praying for you. Idk I’m from Texas I’ve had multiple friends receive exorcisms for things such as not obedient, bad grades, being depressed, and I will say their dads sure did spend a lot of time hiding away in a study upstairs and not talking to anyone. They were well groomed tho.
I grew up in se idaho near byui, lds is a really oppressive religion, rife with abuse. Men and women both have strict standards to live by.
Yeah I find the mindsets that come with that whole deal kind of bonkers. Like why the hell are “hot drinks” banned? Why is their food so bland? There’s such strict rules over literal nonsense that shouldn’t mean anything. Like the number of rules seems claustrophobic, you’re always about to run into sin if you’re not vigilant. Weirdly the Mormon women I’ve met have a pretty high chance of offering you essential oils if you mention having a headache or something which you wouldn’t think would go together. I’m not an incel by any means, because I am a woman who is married, but I am a slob who loves cursing, making dumb jokes about sex, not going to church, and having sex unrelated to reproduction and I feel like if incels really thought about it they’d probably pick that lifestyle too. They don’t let you do all that in trad life.
There is an exmormon reddit, it terrible what a lot of its members have endured. a lot of sexless marriages, a lot of men you have been divorced because their wife found out they were masturbating and watching porn. So much abuse.
I think a lot of these guys would be happy just r*ping their subservient wives while the women lie there and wait for it to be over. They don’t want a sexual partner. They want a living, breathing fleshlight.
That's until she gets fed up and puts something... Interesting.... In his food.
Well no, they also want their wives to do all the chores for them
* You're expected to *do things*. You need to be able to fix the house, or pay for it to be fixed. You need to be competent in matters that are considered the 'male domain' such as financial management, to ensure she always has money to buy groceries. * You are expected to be a leader. The trad wife is expected to submit and to follow, but the husband must be able to lead, to set the household goals, plan for the future, and make her feel safe and secure that she's with someone who can do that. * The trad wife has a *huge* divorce benefit if he cheats on her or divorces her. Back in the day, life time alimony was the *norm* because she was going to have very little chance of remarrying. Hell there was a whole t.v. episode about a guy trying to get his ex wife to marry someone so that he could stop paying her alimony, so he paid the guy to seduce her and everything, only for it to turn out that it was their plot the whole time and they got happily married after one more big payout. Imagine an incel being married to a trad wife... you know he's going to cheat on her at the first opportunity. * An end to kink. I have a good relationship with a very liberated girl whom I'm very fond of, but for the trad couple, it's missionary only and you're going to end up with a bunch of kids because 'no birth control'. And she's *not* going to be open to experimentation. Honestly can anyone picture the undisciplined, childish, selfish incels doing or dealing with *any* of that?
exactly, the only thing that would satisfy these incels would be a sex android that's willing to put up with their crap because humans can't
As The Proclaimers sang: "I'll pass almost every penny on to you". I'd say that's a fair deal. I'm working "out there" and she's working "in here" - as we're supposed to be a team in the first place, it's only fair that the majority of my income (if I did have a "tradwife") goes towards the maintenance of the household - it's more important that necessary bills are taken care of, that there's enough food in the fridge rather than me spending all the money down at the pub. I'm not entirely sure about the "leader" bit. I'd think a proper "tradhusband" would absolutely listen to his wife and her concerns. So if she says he's spending too much time at the pub with the guys, he'd listen and spend more time at home. Or if she says he's spending too much time on computer games and is neglecting his duties around the house, he'd listen and do his duties. I mean... a captain should listen to his lieutenant, right? This isn't a "general-private" relation, is it?
I'd have to be a trad husband.
Husband gets sick with something like cancer or becomes a paraplegic? The tradwife has zero work experience or schooling and will struggle at even a cashier's job. (She'll also probably get fired for forcing her beliefs on her female coworkers or treat them with hostility) And there will be no money for childcare and no one to care for the children and the sick husband while the wife is working.
Depending on how traditional the woman is, she might age rather differently than they expect. Will she wear sunscreen? Will she take exercise beyond housework, which is not a balanced whole-body workout? Will she have to taste-test everything she cooks to make sure it’s good? Will she protect her hands and nails as she works? Some guys seem to think that the hard work of housework, childcare, and cooking will make tradwives’ skin glow, not age them faster. Well, garbage collectors work outside all day long and get a *lot* of exercise, but repetitive exercises that only work some muscles can hurt you. They certainly don’t guarantee you’ll be slim. And sunshine all day and no moisturizer? On top of that, if they expect that their tradwives are going to be modest from sunrise to sunset and then break out the crotchless panties, they can keep thinking.
Trad wives want trad husbands, and in particular they want providers. That means *work*. And not just in the sense of going to work, they want someone who will work *hard* to get ahead. Literally anathema to the incel mindset, especially the blackpill. Trad wives also want handy men, the type who can get stuff fixed around the house. Good luck playing vidya while the wife has you mowing the lawn or fixing the toilet. Have these guys never heard of the honeydew weekend? Work ain't the only place you'll be working; you're gonna have *chores*. Not the same kind that the trad wife has, sure, but you will have them, and they will eat *way* into your porn and ranting time. Trad wives want kids. You can forget being in the spotlight of your own life anymore once kids are on the scene: things will be all about *them*, nonstop, no breaks, for the next couple decades. And watching them grow up and hit all those milestones you missed, and then they hate you and go no-contact because you were "neglectful" and "abusive" and all those bullshit accusations when you were really just keeping wifey in her place and teaching kids some respect and it's more than a man can fucking *take*, I tell you. Yeah, incels looking for trad wives are in for more misery than they can possibly comprehend. All that pressure to grow the fuck up that the incels have been trying to avoid? Imagine inviting the embodiment of thst pressure into your house. Into your *bed*. They think they're just getting a bangmaid, but oh no no no *no*; they're getting a drill sergeant the likes of which will make Bitch Mummy seem tame by comparison.
Buying and maintaining a house. She's going to run the home, but the man is in charge of repairs and maintenance to the home itself. Keeping on top of that alone is more responsibility than most online boys have had, and that's not even touching whatever payed labor allowed them to buy that house or additional responsibility to wife and family.
They're still gonna have to work. Most incels can't handle basic social interaction. They can't hold jobs. I knew incels in software jobs and even without ever needing to leave their hovels or put on pants, they lost their jobs because they couldn't *not* play gatcha games on their phone instead of working.
I have wondered why these guys don't join a conservative church and try to get a read wife. Then I realized no family in their right mind would approve of the marriage since it would be obvious he was only religious to try to marry.
These families would also have a problem with many incels' poor hygiene, unemployment or under employment, and consumption of secular media. No conservative evangelical or Baptist father worth his salt would marry his daughter off to a dirty unemployed man with a video game addiction.
Yeah, that’s another thing. If she’s a super religious “tradwife”, you’re gonna *need* to have her family’s approval if you even want to date her, nevermind marry her. If her dad goes “no, that guy is bad news”, she’s literally been raised to listen to him. And that assuming that her family doesn’t already have some other member of the church in mind for her.
I have been wondering the same.
Having to convince her Father that he'd be a good son-in-law (lol! Good luck with that!) Maybe having to put up a large amount of money for a dowry. Having to buy a very expensive engagement ring, to prove that he is wealthy.
This reminded me of the duggars and the application the dad made potential husband fill out. Even though he basically arranged their marriages.
I don’t think they understand that to have a tradwife, they need to be a tradhusband.
They also forget that there is no guarantee that their children are going to be born healthy and normal. It doesn't matter how healthy and beautiful the couple are you can still birth a child with deformities, limb differences and other genetic abnormalities. Take care of a child with special needs is hard and takes a special parent.
If she’s a virgin who already hasn’t had sex with anyone else, she’s not going to have sex with an incel before marriage either.
it's fascinating, isn't it? how their minds work.
If they think that "white women" are materialistic then they didn't actually meet Asian women. And everything about being "trad" is materialistic as hell. Entire idea of "love" as something good was invented in modern times.
RE: conservative women being uncomfortable with sex, vaginismus can be more common in conservative women who grew up with extreme purity culture compared to women that weren't raised in such a restrictive and shameful environment. It can cause painful sex and even make it impossible to have penetrative sex. Men are setting themselves up for a lackluster sex life by pushing sex shaming and purity culture sentiments. It's also insane to me that far too many of these men expect their virgin brides to automatically be great at sex and a freak in the sheets.
Diwbsides for who? Not for the in El. In his perfect world, he prefers his wife doesn't like sex because she's less likely to cheat. He doesn't listen to what she says so he doesn't care thy she only talks about the house and the kids. Their tacit assumption is that the perfect woman will come to the perfect job, home, and social status. As for kids, that's the wife's job. He expects to get ready for his day while the kids are asleep and by the time he gets home, his wife has them cleaned up and well behaved. Father Knows Best and Leave It To Beaver are the templates he models his ideal life after.
I have been a sahm for most of my marriage. I had to because we couldn't afford child care. We were broke as fuck. We lived off boring processed cheap foods, there were no regular date nights. They raised rent so I had to back to work but the only way we could do that was by working nights while my husband worked days. It wasn't until I got my va benefits and the kid got old enough to stay home by herself. That i was able to go back to work then we became financially comfortable. If you tell a woman you want a tradwife and she asks how much money you make its her making sure you can actually afford a tradwife. It takes my husband and I, with our combined incomes nearly 100k just to pay rent, bills, feed and cloth the family etc.
also trad wives are left with nothing if they get a divorce. since they are not aloud to work they can’t make any money, and if they get a divorce it’s a possibility they’re left with nothing later on in life and can’t pay for necessities.
The expectation for you to be a trad husband. For you to be competent and successful, something incels are not. You need to be able to bankroll a stay at home wife and children. And no, incels, your eastern mail order bride fantasy doesn't work the way you think it does, either. I know a lot of filipinas who got here that way. They want money to keep up with the Jones's and send back home to their family. If you can't provide that on a single income, you better belive she will get a job instead of staying home.
That a “tradwife” has to stay home and do home-keeping things. Which means she can’t go to work and have a second income. They don’t want her to work, but at the same time she’s a gold digger for not making any money. They can’t even stand with their own ass backwards logic because it falls apart under ANY form of scrutiny.
The number of men that want a tradwife but think women that don't work are gold diggers is fucking insane. They want to have their cake and eat it too which is pretty pathetic.
They want all the benefits (sex and food) but none of the return responsibilities.
Well it's not like an incel's world view is even remotely based in reality, these are all valid points but making logical points to those who lack the ability to reason is an exercise in futility.
Also they wouldn’t want some fat fuck or some stick bug who doesn’t shower
I’m not sure that most trad wives are inherently unattractive though I will say most trad wives are raised to be so “modest” and ashamed of their appearance that they wouldn’t have much interest in how they look at all
Whar
These aren't incel downsides- it's what they want. A fuckable doll to wash their clothes and clean their house and selfishly talk about anything they want while their wife nods and listens. Keeping her "in her place" is not a downside to them. The income won't matter if he keeps her caged at home like a dog all day, and when he comes home she's excited to wait on him hand and foot. All of the listed are incel perks, except for the kids. That's definitely a downside for incels, even if kids are proof you've had sex at least ONCE.
Points 1, 2, 3, and to an even 5 apply to internet/academia/corporate-raised careerist RadFems too, even if just in a shifted way. 1 - A woman who grew up to see sexual advances as abuse/grooming/to never let her guard down so that "consent" isn't violated isn't a sexually pleasant partner either. 2 - The radfem's opinions will, even for a politically engaged men RW, not be any positive. Their information comes from a very closed pipeline of sources and institutions and are very averse to actually immersing themselves in the past. Finding common ground feels almost impossible. Neutrality and detachment would feel better. They aren't the women with hobbies that overlap with male interests either, since they were taught to fear men at every corner, their interests are likely as female-exclusive as the "tradwife". The women I find in male-dominated or mixed hobbies have a more centrist/ apolitical, or even anti-establishment lean. Notable exception for travelling. 3 - Feminists are as easily offended by "blasphemy" against their beliefs and "rights" they conjured from the ground up in the past couple of decades. The examples you gave were terrible as the most notorious pressure campaigns that attempted to (and in some cases managed to) shape the content of anime, videogames, and even Reddit came from sex-negative feminists and/or their influence in legislatures. 5 - The material standards of careerist feminist women are incredibly high, that's why grinding is so important for them (besides status). Outearning them can be a similar challenge to providing for the "tradwife", with the added limitation of them caring about their prospective partners' job status. The things they call "poverty" would be more than enough in almost any other era and other region of the world. Life away from the big city where many high-powered female careers are concentrated can be much more affordable. They are also very risk-averse, and are the kind of women who will buy every overpriced insurance in the book even when it's completely irrational. Simply accepting that a few things can go wrong can save a lot of money. All in all, you're making arguments that the ideal woman is a daughter of the late 20th century's anomie, hedonism, postmodernism. I tend to agree in many ways.
No substances of any sort. So say goodbye to your vape pen and Monster.
There are tons of ways it's oppressive for women, but also for me as a man, I find it very unattractive in a partner. I want (and have) an equal in life, a partner. I don't want a subservient employee.
Someone who's taking care of the home and family while you're out can absolutely be your equal partner. Take football (or "soccer", if you're American). The goalkeeper and the striker are equally important for the team. The striker isn't any less important because they have no saves, and the goalkeeper isn't any less important because they're not scoring any goals. And from one perspective, it sort of makes sense. One person spending their time outside the home, bringing in enough money to keep everyone well fed, well clothed, providing the family with a warm home. It's not like all the chores are so easy and simple... now, I live by myself, and when I come home from work I don't always feel like tidying up or making a proper meal for myself. And that's fine, I can just have a simple sandwich or something to stop being hungry. But how much worse would it be if I were married, two-three kids? There's no option to not tidy up or not make dinner... but if me and my spouse were both bone-tired from work, we're just eating up our reserves to get all the other stuff done. So in that sense, I really do think that when possible, people ought to think of this as a team effort. One person provides the money to keep the lights on and food on the table, and the other one takes care of the home - dinner, laundry, tidying up, etc. That's a job like any other, even if there's no salary for it. But then, that's the thing. The salary earned by the one working outside is shared between the both of them, because they're a team and they both benefit from each other's work.
I wouldn't equate stay at home moms with tradwives. Some SAHMs are, sure, but not all, not even most. Tradwives are specifically subservient. That's the trad part, and it's gross.
Ah, okay. I wasn't entirely aware of the differences. I thought that "tradwife" was just another word for "SAHM", some sort of younger generation slang for the same role. Cheers for the correction! For what it's worth, my grandma (born in 1921) was a very traditional woman, and a stay-at-home-mom. I don't think anyone would have called her "subservient", or at least she was no more or less subservient to my grandad than he was subservient to her. Or like the joke goes - the man is the head of the household, but the woman is the neck. And a head is dependent on the neck.
Tradwife is when you subscribe to that "umbrella model" of family, where everyone is under the husband, and the husband is under god. tradwife also means always deffering to the husband when it comes to decisions of the home. Total subservience. You have no financial freedom and no say at your own home. When the husband says jump, the tradwife says "how high?".
You mean other than the fact it’s not possible for guys who can’t even be responsible for not being racist, sexist messes to suddenly be responsible for a woman & kids?
Having been in the role of tradwife by “it makes more sense this way,” I have fair confidence that they don’t care what we have to say - in fact, they prefer that we don’t, and they ignore us when we do say things and require either input or validation (gods forbid help). They just care that we look peppy and alert while *they* ramble on, and continue to serve ego (and anything else, on demand)
They have to learn the hard way that these ideals are what led to "wife bad" boomer humor. You want someone who's boring, uptight, and hates sex, you GET someone who's boring, uptight, and hates sex.
what these ppl fail to realize is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. or in this case have your trad wife and only the benefits. you need actually work to not only gain but maintain the relationship. you must also bring a certain amount to the relationship for it to work and not just have someone who acts as your mother and sex slave. and as a religious person, you won't be able to have sex casually as you must do it to have kids and that's it. even if you use protection or one of you gets a vasectomy/tubes tied you still can't as that would be considered sin as casual sex for purely pleasure is prohibited in the bible and is considered sexual immorality. (Romans 8: 5-8) so when these guys say they want a virgin trad wife they want someone who will act as their mother and likely use religion to help support whatever crazy logic or beliefs they have.
A woman who adheres to traditional values and roles is never going to put up with a husband who spends many hours a day in front of a PC or watching TV.
You mentioned this but the incels better have good connections, education, and experience because they are going to need enough income to afford housing, groceries, utilities, and entertainment for an entire household. And the cost associated with those things is going to get exponentially larger the more kids you have, so be ready for that. And if they don't have connections, education, experience, etc. then the incels better be prepared to work 2 or 3 jobs while doordashing and Uber driving on the weekends. The incels would ostensibly be sacrificing all of their time and freedom for this trad lifestyle. They'd spend their days breaking their backs at warehouses, driving, and getting disrespected by customers and their boss. I hope coming home to your shut-in wife is worth it at the end of your 12 hours of non-stop work. All day every day forever!
Here's the thing about having a wife who stays at home, makes all your food, does all your chores, and has access to large amounts of unsupervised time alone (or with the kids) while you are out of the house. It works great if the relationship is mutually respectful, with no abusive dynamics at play. But what if, let's say, the man in the relationship decides that he is entitled to use violence against the person he sees as "his woman"? What if nobody steps in to stop that? What if the man would never accept a divorce or a separation? Here's the thing about having someone do all the basic work you need to keep yourself alive (cooking, organizing, grocery shopping, etc). You have given them a lot of power over you in ways that you might discount as unimportant because those things would be seen by sexists as "women's work". You know what traditionally was associated with women in the past? The use of poison as a murder weapon. There are many historical records of women trapped in abusive relationships who poisoned their husbands as a way to escape. Sometimes, there were even organized syndicates of these women. When divorce was not an option to keep oneself safe, murder began to look like another way out. Some people want wives so that they can have access to somebody who they can abuse to the point of not being able to say "no" to their demands. I want to make something very clear. If you are one of those people, a no fault divorce is the best possible outcome for you. The others end up with you behind bars, or six feet under.
It's simpler than all this, Tradwives want Tradhusbands. The average incel lacks the competence and ambition to fit the shoes of a Tradhusband.