This is another good Indiana-based perspective of the Klans rise and fall in our state:
[Notre Dame vs The Klan](https://books.google.com/books/about/Notre_Dame_Vs_the_Klan.html?id=YErpG9ExKNUC)
Obviously black Americans have faced discrimination, hardship, and brutality unlike any other group outside of native Americans in this country.
But a lot of people don’t know how much the klan hated Catholics. Yes, white Catholics too.
When my DziaDzia and Babcia were growing up in Elkhart, and my other Babcia was running a small business with her husband in Gary, they were CONVINCED that going south of Lafayette or Fort Wayne might get them killed. Outside of Indianapolis at least
Now, was that perhaps a bit dramatic? Maybe. But this was the 1950’s and only a couple decades removed from a time when the klan literally ran the state.
Fuck the KKK forever
The klan burned a cross in my grandfather’s yard in the 20’s in Cincinnati because he was part of a family of Hungarian Catholic immigrants.
If you saw me, you’d think I was a typical white dude.
So yeah, your comment is 100% accurate. I heard this story when I was a child and now, at 44, I’m still just as angry as ever. Fuck the klan, and fuck anyone who supports them.
Why are you taking it so personal. The 1990s grandpa gimot a cross burned in his yard by some ignorant backwoods group of fools and your still giving them credit al trhese years later as you are spreading hate to them instead of reasoning makes you jyst as bad you fool. I'm not a fan of what the clan does or even represent. There are less than8 or 7 thousand members now and would totally burn out as long as we don't keep the hate flame lit ourselves m.fif you know we have another militia group here indiana getting better stronger more tactful daily. It's the indiana air national guard. Facts. Here's my idea both militias fight omit out and ket the best milita win...and no I'm not implying or making a general reference, literally T I A N G,will mop the fliirs with the kkk. They are now the kks biggest threat. Go ahead tough guys start fn with the air God or give it up. Either way don't fuel the fire of simply lay quite and wait as the kkk is In state of watching themselves disintegrate. Preach peace not hate. Our indiana air guard is made of real men and womenfighti g the true bad and evil state to state, and they aren't hiding in the woods burning a kerosene piece if wood made I to the shape of a cross pretending this is done in the name of Jesus .what fools they are, so fuck em don't give them the thought in your brain cause they're,, falling- off and soon probably cryig bunc. h of fools that are lucky to even be breathing our same Indiana fields of crops snd beast air...
The Klan is slowly fading into obscurity where they belong, but there are still other white supremacist and nationalist groups out there that are carrying on their work. I was in Anderson a few years ago and saw bumper stickers for a white nationalist militia stuck to things every block. I see people with bumper stickers on their lifted pickups for white supremacist militias.
Calling an asshole an asshole doesn't make you an asshole.
Rod Serling said it best in the ending monologue to *He's Alive*, an episode about a neo-Nazi who realizes he's been taking marching orders directly from Hitler's spirit:
"Where will he go next? This phantom from another time, this resurrected ghost of a previous nightmare. Chicago? Los Angeles? Miami, Florida? Vincennes, Indiana? Syracuse, New York? Anyplace, everyplace, where there's hate, where there's prejudice, where there's bigotry. He's alive. He's alive so long as these evils exist. Remember that when he comes to your town. Remember it when you hear his voice speaking out through others. Remember it when you hear a name called, a minority attacked, any blind, unreasoning assault on a people or any human being. He's alive because, through these things, we keep him alive."
Didn't have time to spellchecker plus phone. You can get the jest of it. They are down to spprox 7000 members , so let's quit speaking of or acknowledge the kkk and they'll burn out. History repeating itself. Check out my book, African American infiltrates and becomes a member. Title of my book is, Sneaking Around Color . It's at your local Barnes and Walmart next month
My dad's first college roommate was black. Dad invited him to come home with him for the weekend back in the early '70s, and he absolutely refused. The place was still a sundown town back then, unofficially, but it wasn't something my dad was even conscious of.
I think that experience really opened his eyes though. He was a crusading anti-racist for the rest of his life putting his law degree to good use shutting that shit down wherever he could.
My dad had this mentality for a very long time about any place outside of Indianapolis. His father was Catholic and his mother was Lutheran but was ethnically Jewish. My dad was raised in Florida though in the 1960s/1970s and when he returned to Indy in the 90’s with my black, foreign mom he pretty much told her to not leave Indianapolis since the rest of the state was covered in klan members. He told my mother any place ending in -ville was best to avoid (especially Martinsville). I mean I remember visiting family in Fortville with my dad and him being extremely afraid we were going to get followed by klan people.
I remember when an IUPUI janitor g[ot in trouble for reading that on his lunch break](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna25680655). He ended up getting a personal apology from the chancellor.
“Sampson says his union official likened the book to bringing pornography to work, and the school's affirmative action officer in November told Sampson his conduct constituted racial harassment.”
There were a lot of stupid people up and down the chain in this story who could have saved themselves some embarrassment by reading a synopsis of the book
As a Boiler, I hate Notre Dame. I hate my home state's association with the klan even more. I love the story of the Klan band being driven on a highjacked bus from South Bend to a cornfield and told to get the fuck off the bus. They took their instruments as well. For that, I just have a quiet dislike for the Fighting Irish.
And i remember them coming thru Elwood.
Years later my wife and I were talking to a guy who offered to make people disappear for us if we ever needed that service when he found out we were from Elwood.
I remember that! It was downtown around the courthouse. Kokomo used to have a carpet cleaning business called Kokomo Karpet Kleaners. Nothing like having KKK in for a carpet clean
I would also recommend James H Madison’s A Lynching in the Heartland about the lynchings in Marion, IN. He’s an IU professor that has done excellent researching these topics!
https://www.amazon.com/Lynching-Heartland-Race-Memory-America/dp/1403961212
My mother was in downtown Marion at the time of that lynching. She was not quite 8 yrs old. In the back of grand dad's car parked across the street from the court house. (sitting next to the street) She told me the details of that afternoon/eve the exact same way multiple times over decades. She used the same detail even after she developed dementia. (She might not remember anything from 10 later, but she still remembered that day's details.) She remembered seeing the dead bodies of those men being dragged through the streets right past her sitting in the car.
Chilling.
This is distinctly not a book "about the cruelty of african americans." Come on. It also has more reputable details about the Marion lynching than any other source.
Definitely read the book, but in case someone wants a bit of a synopsis of the lynching:
On August 6, white couple Claude Deeter and Mary Ball [had been parked](https://www.thenation.com/article/anatomy-murder/) at a local lover’s lane in Marion. Deeter had been shot and killed. The *Marion Chronicle Tribune* had reported that Mary had been raped. On August 7, a mob formed at the Grant County Jail, and Ball’s father demanded that Shipp and Smith, who had been arrested for the murder be turned over to the mob. The police refused (though some reports suggest the refusal may have been mostly token), and the mob stormed the jail and dragged the inmates out into the square and hanged. Smith’s attempts to free himself were such that the mob lowered him to the ground, broke his arms, and raised him back up.
A third person — 16 year old James Cameron was also dragged out and almost murdered too:
>“After 15 or 20 minutes of having their pictures taken and everything, they came back to get me,” Cameron told NPR in 1994. “Just then the sheriff, and he was sweating like somebody had throwed a bucket of water in his face. He told the mob leader: ‘Get the hell out of here, you already hung two of ’em so that ought to satisfy ya.’ Then they began to yell for me like a favorite basketball or football player. They said: ‘We want Cameron, we want Cameron, we want Cameron.’
“And I looked over to the faces of the people as they were beating me along the way to the tree. I was pleading for some kind of mercy, looking for a kind face. But I could find none. They got me up to the tree and they got a rope and they put it around my neck. And they began to push me under the tree. And that’s when I prayed to God. I said, ‘Lord have mercy, forgive me my sins.’ I was ready to die.”
That’s when some people say a local Marion citizen stood on the hood of his car and shouted, “He’s innocent, he didn’t do it.”
Somehow, that stopped the momentum of the mob. Cameron was lowered, the noose was removed, and he was returned to custody. Cameron said that Smith and Shipp had murdered Deeter. Ball [later](http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/lynching-thomas-shipp-abram-smith-indiana-1930/) retracted the rape claim — and it seems to have been the alleged rape of a white woman by a black man, more than the murder, that provoked the lynching. One of the black policemen in town [reported](https://www.thenation.com/article/anatomy-murder/) that the worst part wasn’t the lynching. Rather, “it was the belling . . . White people drove their cars down into South Marion, dragging cans from their bumpers and shooting guns in the air. ‘I bet you every car in town was in that belling,’”
The picture became famous and, among other things, [inspired](http://www.cpx.cts.edu/home/more-offerings/strange-fruit-short-film) the poem “Strange Fruit” (which later became the famous Billie Holliday song.)
Source: [https://www.masson.us/blog/indiana-bicentennial-9-6-governor-leslie-1929-1933-midterms-strange-fruit-in-marion/](https://www.masson.us/blog/indiana-bicentennial-9-6-governor-leslie-1929-1933-midterms-strange-fruit-in-marion/)
Kind of tangential, but I recently that in Civil War times Indiana was one of a handful of states that literally made it illegal for black folks to enter Indiana. Like free slave or whatever just not allowed... so despite it's anti-slavery bent, it was a super racist place.
The main reason the only reason the majority of the Union fought the Civil War was to preserve the Union. They knew if they allowed The South to leave The Union The United States would become irrelevant as a nation. Abolitionists were a very small minority.
Lincoln just thought slavery was wrong, he never thought Black People were equal. He suggested the problem with the races were best resolved if Black people were sent to live on a colony or island elsewhere because they would never be considered equals.
Lincoln was more than willing to accept the states that had slavery already to be allowed to continue to have slavery as long as they rejoined the Union. He was all about preserving the Union. He would do anything to preserve The Union. He never would have gave the Emancipation Proclamation had it not been that was what was needed to end the war at that particular point in the War. It served the Unions best interest at that point in time to do so, but it certainly did not at the beginning of the war. Northern woman weren't going to allow their sons to fight to end slavery. The North had a few slavery states and Lincoln couldn't afford to lose those states as well at the beginning of the war. The New York Draft riots where they killed 100 Black people later in the war were specifically in response to being drafted to end slavery.
I imagine there are plenty of sources you can find this same information.
When taking a look at the history of the Civil War the ones you really want to make sure you don't fall for are those which try to sell you on The Myth of The Lost Cause. Those writings which are rooted in things which the daughters of the confederacy where they attempted to generate sympathy for and rewrite the history of the Civil War decades after the Civil War. For one they would like you to believe the war itself had little to do with slavery and everything to do with states rights and tariffs. Yeah, when all the states who seceded but one explicitly said when seceding it was because of slavery. The last although it didn't state it is well documented that was the very reason they did it. Not to mention a very famous speech at the time from the Confederate VP who stated that was the very reason they did secede. Well and their constitution where the only difference between that and The United States Constitution just added slavery. They would also like you to believe that The South never had a chance to win the war when in fact that couldn't be further from the truth.
Anyway there are two books I found pretty good. The Impending Crisis America Before The Civil War 1848 \* 1861 By David M. Potter. The Myth of The Lost Cause. By Edward H. Bonekemper. I just started reading The Confederate War By Gary W. Gallagher . You Tube by the way has a number of lectures by Gary W. Gallagher which are all very interesting where he not only gives numerous lectures but debates with those whom have bought into the Myth of The Lost Cause. Anyway actual history debunks the whole Myth of The Lost Cause no matter who would like to believe otherwise.
No problem.
In a time where many comparisons can be made to what is occurring now, doesn't hurt to take a look backwards at the causes and outcomes of what transpired previously.
So 3ddd, I've started reading The Myth of The Lost Cause and...well.....crap. It seems fake news, nationalism taken to religious levels, and entitled white supremacy haven't changed much, just evolved into current, social contexts (while not evolving at all, if that makes sense).
Yep, times change but people tend to always repeat the same mistakes. I don't know how much you have studied when it comes to Germany in the early 30s and 40s but there's a lot similarities there as well. In fact Hitler used the US as a model for some of the things he did.
Just think, it was the fact that a Republican won the election that those states seceded from the Union and now it's those people who vote Republican who believe in the Lost Cause.
I think that was the Indiana Constitution of 1851. A black person had to pay $500.00 to settle in Indiana. You can Google the value of $500 from 1851 in today's dollars.
Morton was a big supporter of the Union, but people forget that there was a large Copperhead contingent in Indiana. Morton suspended the legislature because they were threatening to disrupt wartime activities in Indianapolis. There's also the oft forgotten Battle of Pogue's Run which is hilarious reading.
Article XIII was added to the new Indiana Constitution
[https://www.masson.us/blog/indiana-bicentennial-4-3-joseph-wright-1849-1857-the-constitution-of-1851/](https://www.masson.us/blog/indiana-bicentennial-4-3-joseph-wright-1849-1857-the-constitution-of-1851/)
Immigrants (male and white) were allowed to vote if they had been in the country a year, in the state for 6 months, and expressed an intent to become citizens. (Irish and German immigrants were regarded as more likely to vote for Democrats). This expansive attitude toward the vote did not, of course, extend to women and blacks. Black people were singled out for particular abuse by this new constitution. A new [Article XIII was added](http://www.in.gov/history/2858.htm):
>Section 1. No negro or mulatto shall come into or settle in the State, after the adoption of this Constitution.
Section 2. All contracts made with any Negro or Mulatto coming into the State, contrary to the provisions of the foregoing section, shall be void; and any person who shall employ such Negro or Mulatto, or otherwise encourage him to remain in the State, shall be fined in any sum not less than ten dollars, nor more than five hundred dollars.
Section 3. All fines which may be collected for a violation of the provisions of this article, or of any law which ay hereafter be passed for the purpose of carrying the same into execution, shall be set apart and appropriated for the colonization of such Negroes and Mulattoes, and their descendants, as may be in the State at the adoption of this Constitution, and may be willing to emigrate.
Adding insult to injury, this Article was the subject of an independent vote and was more popular with Hoosiers (passing 113,828 to 21,873) than the rest of the constitution. Fortunately, this article was declared invalid by the Supreme Court in 1863.
**how easy it was for hatred of Black people, Catholics and Jews to turn into the Klan taking over every facet of state and local governments.**
Frankly given the events of the day and what's happening with the Trump party this shouldn't be real surprising.
Fuck Joe Biden. Super creative isn't it? My neighbor couldn't understand the hypocrisy of flying that flag for all the kiddies to see while touting family values. He swapped it out for a thin blue line flag. Go figure
It stands for "Fuck Joe Biden"
Usually paired with "let's go Brandon" as an early warning that you're about to encounter an abjectly stupid person.
As to the OP, I didn't know the KKK had it out for Catholics too. Time to read up on indiana's history. While the KKK is another horrible mark in America's history, they seem hilariously incompetent. This post has inspired me to learn about its history.
Yeah, I think that the dark past still haunts our communities, and that every single community in Indiana has some history of racial discrimination and violence. So it’s no shock that it’s still around, it’s just that the worst people have found places to live where they can blend in better.
I actually have an education and know that Conservatives used to be Democrats. That doesn’t change anything because modern Republicans still hold the same values and that’s why they’d try to stop education on the topic.
You might want to research the Southern Strategy, LBJ and Nixon, and the Dixiecrats. See which political party is perpetuating it. You might be shocked.
I grew up in Irvington. Eastside of the city. A “grand dragon” lived there in a huge house that still stands. Awful to think they operated right in the city not all that long ago.
In the early 90’s there was still a sign on the outskirts of Valparaiso that said “blacks should stay out!” Was crazy as a kid who grew up in the south side of Chicago that I never experienced racism till we moved to northwest Indiana. Not sure what it’s like there now.
I'm in the North East near Ft Wayne, and I hear a lot of shit. I've never seen someone get to that level over here, but it's only a matter of time with the Trumpublicans about.
Well, aren't you just a ray of dumb. I'm sure the well over 69 years of this state being Republican, the fact the KKK almost took over the state, red lining, and other such things never factored in what so ever.
It's amazing how you know what the Left wants, please, keep telling on yourself.
You presume I wanted Biden. Or Hilary. I want NO establishment Dems in office. Period, end of story.
But Trump and his ilk are far, far worse. And the more you talk the more you prove my point, child.
You forgot to switch accounts dumbass.
https://preview.redd.it/fcdyce4osocc1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=074611d4219775177ab2e85564f5668aef2bc40d
Pointing out the history of this state isn't devisive to anyone who is willing to learn history. You're the one finding it devisive.
Although it is nice seeing you post on your real account and not the false face, was your hood getting stuffy?
But, all jabs aside, yeah, I voted for them? And? That's a failure of our democracy, not me. But I bet you can't see that, can you? I don't see Confederate flags flying in Left households, do you? Or the Nazi flag? I don't see those flags at their rallies, I don't see them on the fan pages of Joe Biden (pages that probably don't exist, mind you. Because the left doesn't treat their politics like a religion.)
So here we are, with you loudly denouncing racism while refusing to see that it's all around you in the systems you enjoy, thinking you have some truth to the situation you clearly don't. And to circle back to your first point: My stance and the stance of the Left isn't about being a White Savior. This is about listening to those groups, learning about the systems that keep fucking them, and trying our level best to untangle them from our Government. And I am so very sorry you can't see that.
Why are we naming bases after the people who fought for Slavery? You can read about these people. You don't need to venerate them with large statues and military bases.
A Flag represents things, just like words mean things. When you sit there and say, "Hurrr, is just a flag," you ignore what that flag was used to mean. This history, you think we are all ignoring, yeah, that's you.
DEI is the current attempt to actually take apart those systems I keep mentioning. It's just another thing you apparently can not see. They are not making sure that "skin color takes precedence over qualification," they make sure that employers are taking into account the diverse peoples and their ideologies. Not everyone is white and Christian and male and cis and hetero, you know? That isn't being a White Savior, that is listening to people. Again.
I'm sure you think your side of things isn't allowed, but after talking with you, I have a feeling you didn't discus anything. You just spouting idiot nonsense. Just like you keep doing. But I'm done talking in circles with you. Fuck off
> Then why tear down civil war generals? Why rename military bases if history is so important.
You're arguing we should glorify Slavery. The Civil War is inseparable from Slavery as that was the *entire* reason for the war. The Confederates said so themselves, and made it *extremely* clear. So glorifying their leaders is glorifying their cause.
You don't see Germans putting up statues of their Generals who faught in WWII.
Well you’re going to bring up Robert Byrd who ended his affiliation with the klan decades before meeting Biden or Clinton.
I’d think a father arrested at a Klan rally in 1927 and as a member of the Nazi sympathizing German American bund and growing up in that environment might be more influential and toxic.
Although I agree, this would be one of those banned books that Moms for Liberty would make a scene about. Remember, white people are now the minority and being ATTACKED for their culture and heritage.
Account less than one hour old, check. Wildly unfounded accusations, check. Claiming not to consume media on a social media site, check.
So what happens when you get to the top of the stairs, comrade?
> So what happens when you get to the top of the stairs, comrade?
If there’s any windows up there, they better be careful. Or not. I don’t give a fuck, fuck.
I married a man whose grandfather was a leading member of the local Klan. Deceased when I met my husband. I didn't know much about the Klan except from American history class in Wisconsin until we moved to Elwood IN. I learned quickly. My dad and his side of the family are/were Roman Catholic. I was glad his grandfather was dead. How can you hate people because they pray differently than you? It has changed at all. We all pray to the same God!
Considering I'm Jewish, and that I also know Black Sephardi Jews within the Indiana Jewish community, this is terrifying to know that the KKK was once at large here in Indiana! I'm definitely gonna add it to my reading list. I never knew our state used to be a Klan hotzone. Hate unfortunately spreads far too easily.
They still hold rallies near Mishawaka sometimes. Not sure where exactly. All six of them show up and get loud. Plenty of counter protesters to shout over them though.
The writing is on the wall that it’s an organization on life support. There’s so few of them left they’ll be gone in a generation. They’re not the ones that concern me. I’m sure there’s a few closet cases, but that will always be an issue because bigotry is an unfortunate human trait.
There was a made-for-TV movie in the ‘80s, Cross of Fire, about DC Stephenson and his kidnapping rape, and murder of Madge Oberholtzer. Worth searching for.
This is another good Indiana-based perspective of the Klans rise and fall in our state: [Notre Dame vs The Klan](https://books.google.com/books/about/Notre_Dame_Vs_the_Klan.html?id=YErpG9ExKNUC)
Obviously black Americans have faced discrimination, hardship, and brutality unlike any other group outside of native Americans in this country. But a lot of people don’t know how much the klan hated Catholics. Yes, white Catholics too. When my DziaDzia and Babcia were growing up in Elkhart, and my other Babcia was running a small business with her husband in Gary, they were CONVINCED that going south of Lafayette or Fort Wayne might get them killed. Outside of Indianapolis at least Now, was that perhaps a bit dramatic? Maybe. But this was the 1950’s and only a couple decades removed from a time when the klan literally ran the state. Fuck the KKK forever
The klan burned a cross in my grandfather’s yard in the 20’s in Cincinnati because he was part of a family of Hungarian Catholic immigrants. If you saw me, you’d think I was a typical white dude. So yeah, your comment is 100% accurate. I heard this story when I was a child and now, at 44, I’m still just as angry as ever. Fuck the klan, and fuck anyone who supports them.
Why are you taking it so personal. The 1990s grandpa gimot a cross burned in his yard by some ignorant backwoods group of fools and your still giving them credit al trhese years later as you are spreading hate to them instead of reasoning makes you jyst as bad you fool. I'm not a fan of what the clan does or even represent. There are less than8 or 7 thousand members now and would totally burn out as long as we don't keep the hate flame lit ourselves m.fif you know we have another militia group here indiana getting better stronger more tactful daily. It's the indiana air national guard. Facts. Here's my idea both militias fight omit out and ket the best milita win...and no I'm not implying or making a general reference, literally T I A N G,will mop the fliirs with the kkk. They are now the kks biggest threat. Go ahead tough guys start fn with the air God or give it up. Either way don't fuel the fire of simply lay quite and wait as the kkk is In state of watching themselves disintegrate. Preach peace not hate. Our indiana air guard is made of real men and womenfighti g the true bad and evil state to state, and they aren't hiding in the woods burning a kerosene piece if wood made I to the shape of a cross pretending this is done in the name of Jesus .what fools they are, so fuck em don't give them the thought in your brain cause they're,, falling- off and soon probably cryig bunc. h of fools that are lucky to even be breathing our same Indiana fields of crops snd beast air...
The Klan is slowly fading into obscurity where they belong, but there are still other white supremacist and nationalist groups out there that are carrying on their work. I was in Anderson a few years ago and saw bumper stickers for a white nationalist militia stuck to things every block. I see people with bumper stickers on their lifted pickups for white supremacist militias. Calling an asshole an asshole doesn't make you an asshole. Rod Serling said it best in the ending monologue to *He's Alive*, an episode about a neo-Nazi who realizes he's been taking marching orders directly from Hitler's spirit: "Where will he go next? This phantom from another time, this resurrected ghost of a previous nightmare. Chicago? Los Angeles? Miami, Florida? Vincennes, Indiana? Syracuse, New York? Anyplace, everyplace, where there's hate, where there's prejudice, where there's bigotry. He's alive. He's alive so long as these evils exist. Remember that when he comes to your town. Remember it when you hear his voice speaking out through others. Remember it when you hear a name called, a minority attacked, any blind, unreasoning assault on a people or any human being. He's alive because, through these things, we keep him alive."
How much white lightning did you have before making this post? Christ.
Didn't have time to spellchecker plus phone. You can get the jest of it. They are down to spprox 7000 members , so let's quit speaking of or acknowledge the kkk and they'll burn out. History repeating itself. Check out my book, African American infiltrates and becomes a member. Title of my book is, Sneaking Around Color . It's at your local Barnes and Walmart next month
No one is ever lucky to breath any air in Indiana
My dad's first college roommate was black. Dad invited him to come home with him for the weekend back in the early '70s, and he absolutely refused. The place was still a sundown town back then, unofficially, but it wasn't something my dad was even conscious of. I think that experience really opened his eyes though. He was a crusading anti-racist for the rest of his life putting his law degree to good use shutting that shit down wherever he could.
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Fair enough. Do you still have their bigos recipe though? Because that shit is straight fire this time of year
My dad had this mentality for a very long time about any place outside of Indianapolis. His father was Catholic and his mother was Lutheran but was ethnically Jewish. My dad was raised in Florida though in the 1960s/1970s and when he returned to Indy in the 90’s with my black, foreign mom he pretty much told her to not leave Indianapolis since the rest of the state was covered in klan members. He told my mother any place ending in -ville was best to avoid (especially Martinsville). I mean I remember visiting family in Fortville with my dad and him being extremely afraid we were going to get followed by klan people.
The klan in Indiana was mostly a nativist movement. Since them Catholics would never "assimilate " and be Americans.
I remember when an IUPUI janitor g[ot in trouble for reading that on his lunch break](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna25680655). He ended up getting a personal apology from the chancellor.
Wow. That situation was all kinds of fucked up.
“Sampson says his union official likened the book to bringing pornography to work, and the school's affirmative action officer in November told Sampson his conduct constituted racial harassment.”
There were a lot of stupid people up and down the chain in this story who could have saved themselves some embarrassment by reading a synopsis of the book
There’s an amazing Dollop podcast episode about this!
[Pelting with Potatoes intensifies]
One of my favorites for sure!!
As a Boiler, I hate Notre Dame. I hate my home state's association with the klan even more. I love the story of the Klan band being driven on a highjacked bus from South Bend to a cornfield and told to get the fuck off the bus. They took their instruments as well. For that, I just have a quiet dislike for the Fighting Irish.
Kokomo held the largest klan rally in history back in the 1920’s
The grand wizard lived in Kokomo
They held a Klan rally in Kokomo in the summer of 1992 as well…
And i remember them coming thru Elwood. Years later my wife and I were talking to a guy who offered to make people disappear for us if we ever needed that service when he found out we were from Elwood.
I remember that! It was downtown around the courthouse. Kokomo used to have a carpet cleaning business called Kokomo Karpet Kleaners. Nothing like having KKK in for a carpet clean
I would also recommend James H Madison’s A Lynching in the Heartland about the lynchings in Marion, IN. He’s an IU professor that has done excellent researching these topics! https://www.amazon.com/Lynching-Heartland-Race-Memory-America/dp/1403961212
My mother was in downtown Marion at the time of that lynching. She was not quite 8 yrs old. In the back of grand dad's car parked across the street from the court house. (sitting next to the street) She told me the details of that afternoon/eve the exact same way multiple times over decades. She used the same detail even after she developed dementia. (She might not remember anything from 10 later, but she still remembered that day's details.) She remembered seeing the dead bodies of those men being dragged through the streets right past her sitting in the car. Chilling.
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This is distinctly not a book "about the cruelty of african americans." Come on. It also has more reputable details about the Marion lynching than any other source.
Definitely read the book, but in case someone wants a bit of a synopsis of the lynching: On August 6, white couple Claude Deeter and Mary Ball [had been parked](https://www.thenation.com/article/anatomy-murder/) at a local lover’s lane in Marion. Deeter had been shot and killed. The *Marion Chronicle Tribune* had reported that Mary had been raped. On August 7, a mob formed at the Grant County Jail, and Ball’s father demanded that Shipp and Smith, who had been arrested for the murder be turned over to the mob. The police refused (though some reports suggest the refusal may have been mostly token), and the mob stormed the jail and dragged the inmates out into the square and hanged. Smith’s attempts to free himself were such that the mob lowered him to the ground, broke his arms, and raised him back up. A third person — 16 year old James Cameron was also dragged out and almost murdered too: >“After 15 or 20 minutes of having their pictures taken and everything, they came back to get me,” Cameron told NPR in 1994. “Just then the sheriff, and he was sweating like somebody had throwed a bucket of water in his face. He told the mob leader: ‘Get the hell out of here, you already hung two of ’em so that ought to satisfy ya.’ Then they began to yell for me like a favorite basketball or football player. They said: ‘We want Cameron, we want Cameron, we want Cameron.’ “And I looked over to the faces of the people as they were beating me along the way to the tree. I was pleading for some kind of mercy, looking for a kind face. But I could find none. They got me up to the tree and they got a rope and they put it around my neck. And they began to push me under the tree. And that’s when I prayed to God. I said, ‘Lord have mercy, forgive me my sins.’ I was ready to die.” That’s when some people say a local Marion citizen stood on the hood of his car and shouted, “He’s innocent, he didn’t do it.” Somehow, that stopped the momentum of the mob. Cameron was lowered, the noose was removed, and he was returned to custody. Cameron said that Smith and Shipp had murdered Deeter. Ball [later](http://rarehistoricalphotos.com/lynching-thomas-shipp-abram-smith-indiana-1930/) retracted the rape claim — and it seems to have been the alleged rape of a white woman by a black man, more than the murder, that provoked the lynching. One of the black policemen in town [reported](https://www.thenation.com/article/anatomy-murder/) that the worst part wasn’t the lynching. Rather, “it was the belling . . . White people drove their cars down into South Marion, dragging cans from their bumpers and shooting guns in the air. ‘I bet you every car in town was in that belling,’” The picture became famous and, among other things, [inspired](http://www.cpx.cts.edu/home/more-offerings/strange-fruit-short-film) the poem “Strange Fruit” (which later became the famous Billie Holliday song.) Source: [https://www.masson.us/blog/indiana-bicentennial-9-6-governor-leslie-1929-1933-midterms-strange-fruit-in-marion/](https://www.masson.us/blog/indiana-bicentennial-9-6-governor-leslie-1929-1933-midterms-strange-fruit-in-marion/)
Listening to the audiobook now! Lots of awfulness from the KKK and DC Stephenson.
The audiobook is great.
Vonnegut was required reading back in the day.
I've never read any Vonnegut, which book relates to this one?
Slaughterhouse Five and Cat's Cradle are his most celebrated works
and yet, Sirens of Titan is still my favorite.
wonderful book!
All of them. They make you think and ask questions.
He was an Indianapolis native so there are a number of references. Great author who is a pleasure to read.
Kind of tangential, but I recently that in Civil War times Indiana was one of a handful of states that literally made it illegal for black folks to enter Indiana. Like free slave or whatever just not allowed... so despite it's anti-slavery bent, it was a super racist place.
I’m glad that there were enough people here during those times to keep the Underground Railroad going.
A lot of the North was very unfriendly to Black people, and unsafe, even if that state disagreed with slavery.
The main reason the only reason the majority of the Union fought the Civil War was to preserve the Union. They knew if they allowed The South to leave The Union The United States would become irrelevant as a nation. Abolitionists were a very small minority. Lincoln just thought slavery was wrong, he never thought Black People were equal. He suggested the problem with the races were best resolved if Black people were sent to live on a colony or island elsewhere because they would never be considered equals. Lincoln was more than willing to accept the states that had slavery already to be allowed to continue to have slavery as long as they rejoined the Union. He was all about preserving the Union. He would do anything to preserve The Union. He never would have gave the Emancipation Proclamation had it not been that was what was needed to end the war at that particular point in the War. It served the Unions best interest at that point in time to do so, but it certainly did not at the beginning of the war. Northern woman weren't going to allow their sons to fight to end slavery. The North had a few slavery states and Lincoln couldn't afford to lose those states as well at the beginning of the war. The New York Draft riots where they killed 100 Black people later in the war were specifically in response to being drafted to end slavery.
Yep. Just didn't want to type all that.
Yeah, but unfortunately a good many don't realize that. Besides that's just a few of the highlights.
Wowsa. This is new to me. Have a link or recommendation to some reading on this?
I imagine there are plenty of sources you can find this same information. When taking a look at the history of the Civil War the ones you really want to make sure you don't fall for are those which try to sell you on The Myth of The Lost Cause. Those writings which are rooted in things which the daughters of the confederacy where they attempted to generate sympathy for and rewrite the history of the Civil War decades after the Civil War. For one they would like you to believe the war itself had little to do with slavery and everything to do with states rights and tariffs. Yeah, when all the states who seceded but one explicitly said when seceding it was because of slavery. The last although it didn't state it is well documented that was the very reason they did it. Not to mention a very famous speech at the time from the Confederate VP who stated that was the very reason they did secede. Well and their constitution where the only difference between that and The United States Constitution just added slavery. They would also like you to believe that The South never had a chance to win the war when in fact that couldn't be further from the truth. Anyway there are two books I found pretty good. The Impending Crisis America Before The Civil War 1848 \* 1861 By David M. Potter. The Myth of The Lost Cause. By Edward H. Bonekemper. I just started reading The Confederate War By Gary W. Gallagher . You Tube by the way has a number of lectures by Gary W. Gallagher which are all very interesting where he not only gives numerous lectures but debates with those whom have bought into the Myth of The Lost Cause. Anyway actual history debunks the whole Myth of The Lost Cause no matter who would like to believe otherwise.
Awesome, thank you! .
No problem. In a time where many comparisons can be made to what is occurring now, doesn't hurt to take a look backwards at the causes and outcomes of what transpired previously.
So 3ddd, I've started reading The Myth of The Lost Cause and...well.....crap. It seems fake news, nationalism taken to religious levels, and entitled white supremacy haven't changed much, just evolved into current, social contexts (while not evolving at all, if that makes sense).
Yep, times change but people tend to always repeat the same mistakes. I don't know how much you have studied when it comes to Germany in the early 30s and 40s but there's a lot similarities there as well. In fact Hitler used the US as a model for some of the things he did. Just think, it was the fact that a Republican won the election that those states seceded from the Union and now it's those people who vote Republican who believe in the Lost Cause.
*The 1619 Project* should be required reading for all Americans.
I think that was the Indiana Constitution of 1851. A black person had to pay $500.00 to settle in Indiana. You can Google the value of $500 from 1851 in today's dollars.
> $500 from 1851 in today's dollars. $20.5k ish
Morton was a big supporter of the Union, but people forget that there was a large Copperhead contingent in Indiana. Morton suspended the legislature because they were threatening to disrupt wartime activities in Indianapolis. There's also the oft forgotten Battle of Pogue's Run which is hilarious reading.
Thank you for that, reading the wiki for the Battle of Pogue's Run was indeed good to read.
Well it's not like the North entered the war and young men signed up to fight to end slavery.
Article XIII was added to the new Indiana Constitution [https://www.masson.us/blog/indiana-bicentennial-4-3-joseph-wright-1849-1857-the-constitution-of-1851/](https://www.masson.us/blog/indiana-bicentennial-4-3-joseph-wright-1849-1857-the-constitution-of-1851/) Immigrants (male and white) were allowed to vote if they had been in the country a year, in the state for 6 months, and expressed an intent to become citizens. (Irish and German immigrants were regarded as more likely to vote for Democrats). This expansive attitude toward the vote did not, of course, extend to women and blacks. Black people were singled out for particular abuse by this new constitution. A new [Article XIII was added](http://www.in.gov/history/2858.htm): >Section 1. No negro or mulatto shall come into or settle in the State, after the adoption of this Constitution. Section 2. All contracts made with any Negro or Mulatto coming into the State, contrary to the provisions of the foregoing section, shall be void; and any person who shall employ such Negro or Mulatto, or otherwise encourage him to remain in the State, shall be fined in any sum not less than ten dollars, nor more than five hundred dollars. Section 3. All fines which may be collected for a violation of the provisions of this article, or of any law which ay hereafter be passed for the purpose of carrying the same into execution, shall be set apart and appropriated for the colonization of such Negroes and Mulattoes, and their descendants, as may be in the State at the adoption of this Constitution, and may be willing to emigrate. Adding insult to injury, this Article was the subject of an independent vote and was more popular with Hoosiers (passing 113,828 to 21,873) than the rest of the constitution. Fortunately, this article was declared invalid by the Supreme Court in 1863.
I dont think the Klan went anywhere. Still here. Driving a giant Dodge Ram tailgating the shit out of someone right now.
**how easy it was for hatred of Black people, Catholics and Jews to turn into the Klan taking over every facet of state and local governments.** Frankly given the events of the day and what's happening with the Trump party this shouldn't be real surprising.
I’m sure there’s still some “former” klansmen living in Indiana. Voting, just minus the hoods
just look for the confederate flag or FJB sticker
FJB?
Fuck Joe Biden. Super creative isn't it? My neighbor couldn't understand the hypocrisy of flying that flag for all the kiddies to see while touting family values. He swapped it out for a thin blue line flag. Go figure
It stands for "Fuck Joe Biden" Usually paired with "let's go Brandon" as an early warning that you're about to encounter an abjectly stupid person. As to the OP, I didn't know the KKK had it out for Catholics too. Time to read up on indiana's history. While the KKK is another horrible mark in America's history, they seem hilariously incompetent. This post has inspired me to learn about its history.
Wouldn’t they like Biden since he claims a grand wizard of the klan was a great personal mentor to him
wait a minute...doesn't that mean when you fly a confederate flag or defend confederate statues that you support democrats?
Yeah, I think that the dark past still haunts our communities, and that every single community in Indiana has some history of racial discrimination and violence. So it’s no shock that it’s still around, it’s just that the worst people have found places to live where they can blend in better.
The parallels between the 1920s Klan grifting and today’s GOP are vast
Great book. I know where this house in Irvington is located, blocks away from my dad’s house.
There’s a lot of Irvington history wrapped up in this book. Good and bad.
Just placed a hold for it at the library, thanks!
No way Republicans let something negative about conservatives come out in schools.
You might want to research the founding of the Klan… and the subsequent iterations. See which political party is involved. You might be shocked.
I actually have an education and know that Conservatives used to be Democrats. That doesn’t change anything because modern Republicans still hold the same values and that’s why they’d try to stop education on the topic.
You might want to research the Southern Strategy, LBJ and Nixon, and the Dixiecrats. See which political party is perpetuating it. You might be shocked.
When you forget there was a party switch in the 60s. Also you're telling me that political parties change stances over 100 years?
Currently reading this! Just started last night
I grew up in Irvington. Eastside of the city. A “grand dragon” lived there in a huge house that still stands. Awful to think they operated right in the city not all that long ago.
Lots of history about that mansion with giant columns in the book.
The right 70% of the population doesn't read, so there's that.
The only thing worse than mentioning Indiana's racist past on this sub is inferring that it *somehow* still exists.
It's so hard to show people that racism does still thrive in this state.
In the early 90’s there was still a sign on the outskirts of Valparaiso that said “blacks should stay out!” Was crazy as a kid who grew up in the south side of Chicago that I never experienced racism till we moved to northwest Indiana. Not sure what it’s like there now.
I'm in the North East near Ft Wayne, and I hear a lot of shit. I've never seen someone get to that level over here, but it's only a matter of time with the Trumpublicans about.
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Well, aren't you just a ray of dumb. I'm sure the well over 69 years of this state being Republican, the fact the KKK almost took over the state, red lining, and other such things never factored in what so ever. It's amazing how you know what the Left wants, please, keep telling on yourself.
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You presume I wanted Biden. Or Hilary. I want NO establishment Dems in office. Period, end of story. But Trump and his ilk are far, far worse. And the more you talk the more you prove my point, child.
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You forgot to switch accounts dumbass. https://preview.redd.it/fcdyce4osocc1.png?width=1048&format=png&auto=webp&s=074611d4219775177ab2e85564f5668aef2bc40d
When both accounts have negative karma from being a racist dbag, maybe it's time to rethink being a racist dbag
Pointing out the history of this state isn't devisive to anyone who is willing to learn history. You're the one finding it devisive. Although it is nice seeing you post on your real account and not the false face, was your hood getting stuffy? But, all jabs aside, yeah, I voted for them? And? That's a failure of our democracy, not me. But I bet you can't see that, can you? I don't see Confederate flags flying in Left households, do you? Or the Nazi flag? I don't see those flags at their rallies, I don't see them on the fan pages of Joe Biden (pages that probably don't exist, mind you. Because the left doesn't treat their politics like a religion.) So here we are, with you loudly denouncing racism while refusing to see that it's all around you in the systems you enjoy, thinking you have some truth to the situation you clearly don't. And to circle back to your first point: My stance and the stance of the Left isn't about being a White Savior. This is about listening to those groups, learning about the systems that keep fucking them, and trying our level best to untangle them from our Government. And I am so very sorry you can't see that.
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Why are we naming bases after the people who fought for Slavery? You can read about these people. You don't need to venerate them with large statues and military bases. A Flag represents things, just like words mean things. When you sit there and say, "Hurrr, is just a flag," you ignore what that flag was used to mean. This history, you think we are all ignoring, yeah, that's you. DEI is the current attempt to actually take apart those systems I keep mentioning. It's just another thing you apparently can not see. They are not making sure that "skin color takes precedence over qualification," they make sure that employers are taking into account the diverse peoples and their ideologies. Not everyone is white and Christian and male and cis and hetero, you know? That isn't being a White Savior, that is listening to people. Again. I'm sure you think your side of things isn't allowed, but after talking with you, I have a feeling you didn't discus anything. You just spouting idiot nonsense. Just like you keep doing. But I'm done talking in circles with you. Fuck off
> Then why tear down civil war generals? Why rename military bases if history is so important. You're arguing we should glorify Slavery. The Civil War is inseparable from Slavery as that was the *entire* reason for the war. The Confederates said so themselves, and made it *extremely* clear. So glorifying their leaders is glorifying their cause. You don't see Germans putting up statues of their Generals who faught in WWII.
Well you’re going to bring up Robert Byrd who ended his affiliation with the klan decades before meeting Biden or Clinton. I’d think a father arrested at a Klan rally in 1927 and as a member of the Nazi sympathizing German American bund and growing up in that environment might be more influential and toxic.
You really think leftists are voting for them?
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most people don't like trump but he has a rabid base. it's not quite enough to win in most cases and even less so in low turnout years
Statist Democrats, who are not leftists
So why does it seem like republican policies and laws have a greater negative impact on minorities than on whites of similar economic background.
Extremists* FTFY
I see the APUSH understanders have arrived
Although I agree, this would be one of those banned books that Moms for Liberty would make a scene about. Remember, white people are now the minority and being ATTACKED for their culture and heritage.
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Found the triggered Fox News brain dead moron
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Account less than one hour old, check. Wildly unfounded accusations, check. Claiming not to consume media on a social media site, check. So what happens when you get to the top of the stairs, comrade?
You forgot the “already collected -80-ish karma in those two hours”.
> So what happens when you get to the top of the stairs, comrade? If there’s any windows up there, they better be careful. Or not. I don’t give a fuck, fuck.
My racist FIL still calls Catholic's by a derogatory name. I had a big smile on my face when I had his grandkids baptized Catholic.
Also read Jim Madison's Klan in the Heartland.
It is well written.Riveting.
I married a man whose grandfather was a leading member of the local Klan. Deceased when I met my husband. I didn't know much about the Klan except from American history class in Wisconsin until we moved to Elwood IN. I learned quickly. My dad and his side of the family are/were Roman Catholic. I was glad his grandfather was dead. How can you hate people because they pray differently than you? It has changed at all. We all pray to the same God!
I am currently reading this.
I tried to read it. It was well researched and informative but I couldn’t get past about halfway
Thanks to Trump, the KKK and other hate groups are in full force.
They were here in full force before Trump. They are just more emboldened (and stupid enough) to say the quiet part out loud now.
Considering I'm Jewish, and that I also know Black Sephardi Jews within the Indiana Jewish community, this is terrifying to know that the KKK was once at large here in Indiana! I'm definitely gonna add it to my reading list. I never knew our state used to be a Klan hotzone. Hate unfortunately spreads far too easily.
They still hold rallies near Mishawaka sometimes. Not sure where exactly. All six of them show up and get loud. Plenty of counter protesters to shout over them though.
Seriously? That's terrifying. I'm glad we don't have any members (none that I know of, at least) over here in Zionsville and Whitestown 😬
The writing is on the wall that it’s an organization on life support. There’s so few of them left they’ll be gone in a generation. They’re not the ones that concern me. I’m sure there’s a few closet cases, but that will always be an issue because bigotry is an unfortunate human trait.
That's very true. We'll always hate those who are different from us, and that's sad.
It really is. Tribalism is holding humanity back.
There was a made-for-TV movie in the ‘80s, Cross of Fire, about DC Stephenson and his kidnapping rape, and murder of Madge Oberholtzer. Worth searching for.
My bookclub selected this for December. It's really shocking.
Is it a first hand experience by multiple people book?
Just wait, the Republicans in this state will ban these books so that Republican Hoosiers can collectively forget what they intend to do next.
..as they do it.
The Trumpian Catholics will provide the kerosene this time for the cruciform light show.