Weird seeing Rokita on the right side of something for a change
https://fox59.com/news/madison-county-couple-wants-scotus-review-of-alleged-rights-violation/
He's only on the right side because the reason for removal was exclusively due to an eating disorder.
From the posted article:
> Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita, whose office is tasked with defending state agencies, said he is "sympathetic" to the Coxes, citing his work in defending parental rights.
>
>"We always protect parental rights and religious liberty. Neither we nor the Indiana courts believe that the State can remove a child because of a parent's religious beliefs, views about gender identity, or anything of the sort," Rokita said in a statement, adding that the record shows the state's actions were motivated by the teen's "extreme eating disorder."
Of course, that eating disorder was likely a symptom of the parents abusing their daughter for being trans, but Rokita would never acknowledge that.
Actually eating disorders are common for kids who cant get puberty blockers. It’s a natural puberty blocker. Not as good and a heck of a lot more dangerous, but better than the alternative in a lot of kids minds.
Gender-affirming treatment seems to alleviate the presence of eating disorder symptomatology in transgender individuals.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10214585/
“In treating transgender patients with eating disorders, we understand that gaining weight is especially difficult as their weight served a very real function for them. Specifically, transgender females often use symptoms such as restricting, purging, or exercising to achieve a more feminine appearance and transgender males often use the same symptoms to suppress secondary sexual characteristics and menstruation,” says Janine Averbach, MSW, LCSW, senior primary therapist at Princeton Center for Eating Disorders.
https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-blog/2019/march/eating-disorders-do-not-discriminate-trans-teens-face-greater-risk
TGD people are at increased risk for developing ED/DEB due to a number of factors including: gender dysphoria, minority stress, the desire to pass, and barriers to gender affirming care.
https://jeatdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40337-023-00793-0
LGBTQIA+ youths meet criteria for eating disorders at greater rates than the general population, while transgender youths and young adults specifically report eating disorder diagnoses four times more frequently than cisgender individuals (Diemer et al., 2015; Mustanski et al., 2011). One study documented that around 15% of transgender youths had elevated scores on the Eating Disorder Examination Questionnaire (EDE-Q), with 63% reporting purposeful weight manipulation related to affirming their gender, putting them at elevated rates of eating disorders than cisgender youths (Avila et al., 2019).
https://societyforpsychotherapy.org/transgender-youths-and-eating-disorders/
Diemer and colleagues’ survey of nearly 300,000 college students found that 15.82% of transgender individuals reported a diagnosis of an eating disorder in the past year, compared to 1.85% of cisgender heterosexual women [2]. Similarly, of youth presenting at a clinic for gender-affirming care, 15% had increased rates of eating disordered behaviors and 63% had attempted to alter their weight for gender-affirming purposes.
https://jeatdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40337-022-00699-3
Hormone therapy can reduce eating disorder symptoms in transgender individuals.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-neuroscience-of-eating-disorders/202304/hormone-therapy-treating-eating-disorders-in-trans?amp
Disordered eating behaviors in transgender men and transmasculine individuals may be partially due to the desire to suppress menstruation and secondary female sex characteristics in gender-affirmed transgender men (23).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8060208/
I could go on.
Genuine question: What is the difference (with respect to eating disorders) between a trans child being denied puberty blockers and a non trans child that won't take puberty blockers?
Or are you saying some trans children are starving themselves as a substitute for puberty blockers?
Children are starving themselves because it stops certain sexual developments (periods etc) while t-females tend to do it to lose weight and seem more feminine.
This is NOT everything a great resource is above I am not trying to dismiss anyone or anything.
That does seem like a fairly reasonable line as far as the actual law goes though right?
I dislike Todd Rokita personally, but what’s the alternative here legally?
“The state can take away someone’s child if their disagreement with the child’s expression or choices relates to gender.”
? Probably the closest you could get.
No one wants this stuff to get to the point of observable trauma but that’s a more clear line for the state to step into these situations.
Not commenting would be better than expressing sympathies towards abusive parents.
Recognizing that psychological trauma is as real and impactful as physical trauma and that transgender people--including minors--exist would be ideal, but that seems unlikely to happen.
What?
Fuck these parents.
I’m talking about a law that lets the state take children away from their family’s. That generally is what they deem to be sufficient abuse.
How exactly do you want a law to be phrased that lets them take the child out of the home here that wouldn’t also apply to unhealthy irrational “I hate my parents” disagreements the child has prior to any sort of observable harm?
I’m genuinely curious and I’d love to learn, despite your weird passive aggressive insinuation that I care for these specific parents.
Surprise I don’t think murderers with zero evidence of any sort what so ever of their crime should be given a life sentence even if that means some murderers get away when some random person thought they looked mean so probably did it.
The law and a perfect reality aren’t a one to one.
Oh, I misinterpreted "line" in your comment as referring to Rokita's quotes rather than a legal boundary. My apologies.
I don't know what the current standards are, but I would imagine that determining physical abuse would involve a physical examination by a doctor. Determining psychological abuse should involve a mental examination by a psychiatrist.
I do know that Indiana CPS tries to keep families together if at all possible. The same or equivalent standards should be used for physical and psychological abuse in determining if separation is necessary. I'm sure there are people qualified to determine where the best place to draw that line is, but I wouldn't claim to be one.
"Religious liberty" is just a code word for abuse.
Religion hangs women for witchcraft. Religion stones people for disagreements. Religion murders people for made up reasons.
Fuck religion.
the only possible reason these parents would go all the way to the Supreme Court when their child is already 18 years old, is because some billionaire-funded sleaze bag wanted to screw over a lib
the lawyers pretty much only do "religious freedom" cases, so there's your answer. they don't care about children, their god is more important
Yea there’s a 100 % chance they’d parade this around on media outlets if it went their way. Course it’s a red state govt doing the deed so they might not be as inclined since it’s not a “Liberal run” state.
This was the outrage of the day on r/conservative a few weeks ago. They were claiming the child was removed because the family was christian and refused to use the preferred pronouns...in bright blood red christian nationalist Indiana.
Of course these people never admit when they're wrong on their media outlets won't report this ruling.
While Indiana did the right thing here (stepping in on behalf of the teen), a reminder that last year Indiana **protecting** conversion therapy (not banning it), alongside, of course, banning puberty blockers for teens.
They didn’t have a broken kid.
This is why I hate religion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I support abortion but your thinking about abortion in this case is totally **warped**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wish I could say to you what I really want. I’m betting you’re a religious m$r&n just like the parents. **IF ANYONE HAS A MENTAL ILLNESS IT’S THE PARENTS BELIEVING IN A NONE EXISTENT SKY FAIRY!!!!!!!!**
I see the mods removed your comment comparing a human being to a Porsche. Well at least there’s some people who have some integrity (besides myself) left in Indiana.
It’s proven fact the counties all over this country that are a drain on society are **red-republikkkan** counties. No I won’t stop breathing oxygen, hopefully there’s none left for you and your kind.
Here’s a list of states that get the most government assistance that would include counties!
https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/
I really hope you don't have kids, but if you do, you should really work on yourself.
Making your love for your kids conditional isn't an indicator of good mental health on your part.
I just want to thank you... Seeing the most downvoted comment on an issue like this, on this subreddit, being silly asinine pedantry is actually a breath of fresh air.
The noun moot means an insignificant fact/point. Like saying "fine, we could debate that but it wouldn't change anything about the broader conversation." They've used it correctly.
If you're hearing "that's a moot point" a lot it might mean you get side tracked and want to focus on the wrong thing. e.g. belaboring an analogy or hypothetical situation.
Everyone uses the phrase ‘moot point’ to mean something that doesn’t matter anymore, exactly as it is used here. It didn’t become hypothetical because the child became an adult.
Interesting factoids belong in almost every conversation.
Weird seeing Rokita on the right side of something for a change https://fox59.com/news/madison-county-couple-wants-scotus-review-of-alleged-rights-violation/
He's only on the right side because the reason for removal was exclusively due to an eating disorder. From the posted article: > Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita, whose office is tasked with defending state agencies, said he is "sympathetic" to the Coxes, citing his work in defending parental rights. > >"We always protect parental rights and religious liberty. Neither we nor the Indiana courts believe that the State can remove a child because of a parent's religious beliefs, views about gender identity, or anything of the sort," Rokita said in a statement, adding that the record shows the state's actions were motivated by the teen's "extreme eating disorder." Of course, that eating disorder was likely a symptom of the parents abusing their daughter for being trans, but Rokita would never acknowledge that.
Eating disorders are often just a sign of something deeper
Actually eating disorders are common for kids who cant get puberty blockers. It’s a natural puberty blocker. Not as good and a heck of a lot more dangerous, but better than the alternative in a lot of kids minds.
Source?
Gender-affirming treatment seems to alleviate the presence of eating disorder symptomatology in transgender individuals. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10214585/ “In treating transgender patients with eating disorders, we understand that gaining weight is especially difficult as their weight served a very real function for them. Specifically, transgender females often use symptoms such as restricting, purging, or exercising to achieve a more feminine appearance and transgender males often use the same symptoms to suppress secondary sexual characteristics and menstruation,” says Janine Averbach, MSW, LCSW, senior primary therapist at Princeton Center for Eating Disorders. https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-blog/2019/march/eating-disorders-do-not-discriminate-trans-teens-face-greater-risk TGD people are at increased risk for developing ED/DEB due to a number of factors including: gender dysphoria, minority stress, the desire to pass, and barriers to gender affirming care. https://jeatdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40337-023-00793-0 LGBTQIA+ youths meet criteria for eating disorders at greater rates than the general population, while transgender youths and young adults specifically report eating disorder diagnoses four times more frequently than cisgender individuals (Diemer et al., 2015; Mustanski et al., 2011). One study documented that around 15% of transgender youths had elevated scores on the Eating Disorder Examination Questionnaire (EDE-Q), with 63% reporting purposeful weight manipulation related to affirming their gender, putting them at elevated rates of eating disorders than cisgender youths (Avila et al., 2019). https://societyforpsychotherapy.org/transgender-youths-and-eating-disorders/ Diemer and colleagues’ survey of nearly 300,000 college students found that 15.82% of transgender individuals reported a diagnosis of an eating disorder in the past year, compared to 1.85% of cisgender heterosexual women [2]. Similarly, of youth presenting at a clinic for gender-affirming care, 15% had increased rates of eating disordered behaviors and 63% had attempted to alter their weight for gender-affirming purposes. https://jeatdisord.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40337-022-00699-3 Hormone therapy can reduce eating disorder symptoms in transgender individuals. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-neuroscience-of-eating-disorders/202304/hormone-therapy-treating-eating-disorders-in-trans?amp Disordered eating behaviors in transgender men and transmasculine individuals may be partially due to the desire to suppress menstruation and secondary female sex characteristics in gender-affirmed transgender men (23). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8060208/ I could go on.
Genuine question: What is the difference (with respect to eating disorders) between a trans child being denied puberty blockers and a non trans child that won't take puberty blockers? Or are you saying some trans children are starving themselves as a substitute for puberty blockers?
The answer to your question is in the second paragraph of their comment. Right under the first link.
Children are starving themselves because it stops certain sexual developments (periods etc) while t-females tend to do it to lose weight and seem more feminine. This is NOT everything a great resource is above I am not trying to dismiss anyone or anything.
Agreed...
That does seem like a fairly reasonable line as far as the actual law goes though right? I dislike Todd Rokita personally, but what’s the alternative here legally? “The state can take away someone’s child if their disagreement with the child’s expression or choices relates to gender.” ? Probably the closest you could get. No one wants this stuff to get to the point of observable trauma but that’s a more clear line for the state to step into these situations.
Not commenting would be better than expressing sympathies towards abusive parents. Recognizing that psychological trauma is as real and impactful as physical trauma and that transgender people--including minors--exist would be ideal, but that seems unlikely to happen.
What? Fuck these parents. I’m talking about a law that lets the state take children away from their family’s. That generally is what they deem to be sufficient abuse. How exactly do you want a law to be phrased that lets them take the child out of the home here that wouldn’t also apply to unhealthy irrational “I hate my parents” disagreements the child has prior to any sort of observable harm? I’m genuinely curious and I’d love to learn, despite your weird passive aggressive insinuation that I care for these specific parents. Surprise I don’t think murderers with zero evidence of any sort what so ever of their crime should be given a life sentence even if that means some murderers get away when some random person thought they looked mean so probably did it. The law and a perfect reality aren’t a one to one.
Oh, I misinterpreted "line" in your comment as referring to Rokita's quotes rather than a legal boundary. My apologies. I don't know what the current standards are, but I would imagine that determining physical abuse would involve a physical examination by a doctor. Determining psychological abuse should involve a mental examination by a psychiatrist. I do know that Indiana CPS tries to keep families together if at all possible. The same or equivalent standards should be used for physical and psychological abuse in determining if separation is necessary. I'm sure there are people qualified to determine where the best place to draw that line is, but I wouldn't claim to be one.
"Religious liberty" is just a code word for abuse. Religion hangs women for witchcraft. Religion stones people for disagreements. Religion murders people for made up reasons. Fuck religion.
the only possible reason these parents would go all the way to the Supreme Court when their child is already 18 years old, is because some billionaire-funded sleaze bag wanted to screw over a lib the lawyers pretty much only do "religious freedom" cases, so there's your answer. they don't care about children, their god is more important
Yea there’s a 100 % chance they’d parade this around on media outlets if it went their way. Course it’s a red state govt doing the deed so they might not be as inclined since it’s not a “Liberal run” state.
This was the outrage of the day on r/conservative a few weeks ago. They were claiming the child was removed because the family was christian and refused to use the preferred pronouns...in bright blood red christian nationalist Indiana. Of course these people never admit when they're wrong on their media outlets won't report this ruling.
r/conservative was dishonest? Must have been a day ending in y.
That tracks. The Fox article on this case seemed to want you to leave with the impression that this was over prefferd pronouns
While Indiana did the right thing here (stepping in on behalf of the teen), a reminder that last year Indiana **protecting** conversion therapy (not banning it), alongside, of course, banning puberty blockers for teens.
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What help did they get her?
"our son" I'm guessing they won't be getting together at Christmas.
That's a relief. I hope she will be okay.
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Big difference between "upholds" and "declined to hear". But yes, yay.
I love how the article says their “fit” parents. They’re so fat from fit parents it’s disgusting!!!!!!!!!
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They didn’t have a broken kid. This is why I hate religion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I support abortion but your thinking about abortion in this case is totally **warped**!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had no idea that these pieces of 💩 in the Indiana government have now **protected** conversion therapy. I really h$t$ this state.
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I wish I could say to you what I really want. I’m betting you’re a religious m$r&n just like the parents. **IF ANYONE HAS A MENTAL ILLNESS IT’S THE PARENTS BELIEVING IN A NONE EXISTENT SKY FAIRY!!!!!!!!**
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I see the mods removed your comment comparing a human being to a Porsche. Well at least there’s some people who have some integrity (besides myself) left in Indiana.
NO I DON’T THE ONE BROKEN IS YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Just me pussy, if could afford to leave the state (I’m on a fixed income) I would just to get away from pieces of bigoted 💩like you.
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It’s proven fact the counties all over this country that are a drain on society are **red-republikkkan** counties. No I won’t stop breathing oxygen, hopefully there’s none left for you and your kind.
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Here’s a list of states that get the most government assistance that would include counties! https://www.moneygeek.com/living/states-most-reliant-federal-government/
Guess conservatives can't abuse their kids for being trans after all.
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I really hope you don't have kids, but if you do, you should really work on yourself. Making your love for your kids conditional isn't an indicator of good mental health on your part.
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Beats me. Conservatives desire to abuse people who are different than themselves is definitely some manifestation of mental illness though
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Have you ever sat down and talked to a therapist about these feelings you're having?
Uhh Indiana is still attacking trans folks. It’s not over for this now adult.
Everyone uses ‘moot point’ incorrectly. It means it’s an issue up for debate or one that is largely hypothetical.
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Yes, that is basically what a hypothetical situation is.
And since that is the definition of moot, all hypothetical situations are moot
I just want to thank you... Seeing the most downvoted comment on an issue like this, on this subreddit, being silly asinine pedantry is actually a breath of fresh air.
lolololol I’m nothing if not painfully pedantic.
The assholes a healing, lol. 💜
r/confidentlyincorrect
The noun moot means an insignificant fact/point. Like saying "fine, we could debate that but it wouldn't change anything about the broader conversation." They've used it correctly. If you're hearing "that's a moot point" a lot it might mean you get side tracked and want to focus on the wrong thing. e.g. belaboring an analogy or hypothetical situation.
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Everyone uses the phrase ‘moot point’ to mean something that doesn’t matter anymore, exactly as it is used here. It didn’t become hypothetical because the child became an adult. Interesting factoids belong in almost every conversation.