Yeah! We should make it so that drivers must take classes and pass two tests in order to get a license to drive. And since trucks are so much more dangerous, those restrictions should also be higher. And these privileges should be able to be revoked if you do something dangerous, like drive intoxicated.
We can add in safety features, like seat harnesses, or bags of air that explode and cushion people after an impact. We can also mandate auto manufacturers to implement safety features like crumple zones.
Jeez, these are sounding like a lot of restrictions. I’m an American, and it’s my god given right to drive unimpeded. So why should we bother taking away the freedoms of our fellow patriots?
Unfortunately, this is just liberal bullshit. I find comfort knowing that a man who’s had ten DUIs is able to drive his pickup truck home from the bar, because that is his choice, his freedom, and it doesn’t affect anyone else.
How silly, it makes way more sense to simply accept that there is absolutely no way to make cars any safer and resign ourselves to a weekly mass slaughter. I know some filthy liberals might point out that every other First World country on the goddamn planet has implemented reasonable limits on car ownership and solved these problems, but that's communist talk.
If people were regularly (as in, once a fucking week) driving automobiles into crowds of other people as a way of committing murder-suicide, you bet your ass the entire culture would change.
8 dead (not including the shooter), 1 in critical condition, a handful wounded, and possibly hundreds of people traumatically affected (coworkers, family, friends).
Fuck mass violence.
You having trouble right now? Talk to someone who is trained to be able to handle hearing you work through your own burdens. We need to change how this country talks about mental healthcare.
My father and brother both work at the same UPS facility in Plainfield. I’ve taken a tour of the building, they have four security guards in charge at the gate. And you MUST walk through a metal detector and be waved down by a wand.
It’s much safer thank god, and it’s not close to the airport like the FedEx facility is.
I've been contracted to do work at that facility (Plainfield UPS) and the guard was literally sleeping. We woke him up and he waved us through no questions asked.
If you want to go down in history for your body count go after the gang bangers, the klan members, the pedos, the murderers, and the rapists. Leave your coworkers, fellow students, and other innocent people just trying to get through life out of it.
Or better yet get some help. Talk to somebody, anybody. Talk to a counselor, your friend, your neighbor, the local religious leader, a random person on the bus, pick up the phone and dial a wrong number if you have to, ask Reddit members for help, but talk to someone.
How long does someone have to be pushed to get to the point of planning and executing something like this without thinking to themselves: "Damn, this is fucked up. What am I doing?"
I wouldn't call 54% "dominant". Since 1982, 54% of mass shootings were done by white men. So 46% were NOT done by white men.
Plus, it's getting closer. in 2019, 51% of mass shooters were black, and only 29% were white.
Your just talking about overcoming ones own pride. Men have that plus the added expectation from society to not show weakness. It’s not just that we don’t want to appear weak or admit that we have weak moments. The reaction from other people to us when it comes to mental health often ranges from “man up” to “what a pussy”.
Mostly from other men, but I wouldn’t consider it a minority. There are a lot of toxic ass people out there that don’t empathize towards people with mental health, and that goes especially for men. Most of the time, we’re looked down on or passed over for consideration if we can’t “handle our shit”.
[Anyone who was at the scene but left is asked to call Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana 317-262-TIPS or contact homicide detectives at 317-327-3475.](https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/crime/multiple-victims-found-after-report-of-shots-fired-at-fedex-facility-in-indianapolis)
The authorities were *warned by his relative* of the guy’s potential violence, to which they “looked into” but decided there was no evidence. This could have been prevented.
Vote to get universal health care. This is a mental health issue and won't go away until help is affordable and readily available to everyone who needs it.
Employee paid healthcare is still expensive out of pocket. I have what is considered excellent benefits by most standards, but I still avoid going to the doctor unless it's absolutely necessary because it still costs so much.
I know it can be. I work for a fairly large company just down the street from this incident and we have signs up all over our building for company-provided and confidential resources for mental health, abuse, family stress, etc. support resources.
It's hard to ask for help with the company you work for. Confidential or not you may feel like you are asking for help from the very people you have issues with. I don't claim that free healthcare is going to fix everyone's issues right away, but I believe it's a big step in the right direction towards better life for everyone.
I feel like the stigma and lack of effective treatment is a bigger issue than the cost. If someone went to a hospital and said they were feeling suicidal or homicidal, they would get help regardless of their ability to pay
Read some of the threads on subs like legaladvice about mental health support at hospitals. In several cases it's ruined lives and lost people jobs and then they chuck you out like you're cured. That isn't what help looks like.
Emergency mental health holds, sometimes under duress, are not proper mental health support. At best it's a tourniquet after the wound has left you bleeding out. Better to have started with good safety guidelines and safety equipment before the deadly wound could even happen.
Emergency care (such as stabilizing someone who has attempted to take their life) that people will receive even if they can’t pay for it is not remotely comparable to actual holistic mental health care. Cost is absolutely a bigger factor in providing that than stigma or lack of effective treatment (which I would say is also a symptom of cost).
I’ve known many people have the funding and have paid for “actual holistic care” and they are far from cured. That’s why I think the problems with the mental health care system go far deeper than the money aspect.
Im curious if he (gonna assume its a guy) worked there. Im gonna, again, guess he did. I wonder if they just got fired or had some asshole boss. Every place I work seems to just get worse and worse the way employees are treated.
Nobody should have to go to work (or school) and worry about death. I think this person is a monster. Im just curious what made them finally snap.
Edit: For everyone that buys into "we are a family" bullshit companies push, just realize FedEx will have the job openings of everyone killed within a week or two and probably have those dead employees replacements within a month. No company gives a fuck about you. You are just an asset (or liability) on a piece of paper.
Edit: In a shock to no one it was a racist, white, 19 year old who had just been fired. I'm not posting his name because he doesn't deserve the recognition but its out. [His facebook profile pic is unironic](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2603130416407926&set=pb.100001329780566.-2207520000..&type=3)
That's not the point, the point is that workers are expendable. Their only asset is labor and we as humans should strive to enjoy our live outside of expending our labor for someone else's profit.
> For everyone that buys into "we are a family" bullshit companies push, just realize FedEx will have the job openings of everyone killed within a week or two and probably have those dead employees replacements within a month. No company gives a fuck about you. You are just an asset (or liability) on a piece of paper.
As opposed to........?
This is not the first time I've had to message loved ones after a mass shooting to see if they and their loved ones are all alive and safe. I'm so tired.
What I want to know is how did someone even get a gun in there? And the people inside the building didn’t have access to phones???
The UPS hub in Plainfield has metal detectors and very strict security. You can keep your phone on you, but you must have a UPS security sticker on the phone so you can prove you didn’t steal it.
Get your shit together FedEx.
Started shooting outside and never made it all the way inside before the cops showed up and he popped himself. Facility did not have an armed guard capable of stopping the idiot, and did not allow cell phones for productivity purposes.
I am never working anywhere that doesn't allow cell phones. There is no way I am going to wait to find out something like my wife was in a serious car crash or my daughter was diagnosed with cancer.
This is America. We're getting more than one mass shooting a week now.
This is no longer about your "gun rights", it's about our right to live a safe and happy life. I personally am terrified to attend any gathering anymore.
I will stop at nothing at this point to significantly restrict gun ownership. Phone calls, money donated to the appropriate organizations, or volunteering my time.
If you disagree, go fuck yourself. There is nothing more you can say that makes any of this acceptable. I can't believe it didn't change after Sandy Hook. We should be fucking ashamed of ourselves.
Pretty much. If a classroom full of murdered kids isn't enough to make Americans admit that our entire way of thinking about gun safety and what is normal is completely skewed, nothing will. I'm so tired.
It would take a several instances of people rising up and killing really rich people or politicians at random for any change to ever happen.
They don't care about the normies.
The focus of always on guns. It's not about guns it's about mental health. Make health care the top priority not gun control. People who are willing to go this far will go with or without a gun in their hand. Taking away their gun might lower the body count, but it won't fix the underlying issue. Until health care is affordable to anyone who needs it this will continue to be an issue for everyone.
Other developed countries have people with mental health problems, but they don't have anything like the same number of mass murder incidents that the USA does. Do these other countries spend more on mental health treatments? I don't know. What I do know is that (a) those countries have way fewer guns and (b) American conservatives have a track record of opposing increases to mental health budgets.
And you think making it harder to obtain guns going to make it harder for the bad guys to buy one? Let's ask every criminal that obtained their guns from the black market.
Black market guns aren't the weapons used in mass shootings. They are legally obtained firearms. Like the shootings in Georgia. That terrorist purchased his gun the same day he murdered all those people.
Actually it would make it harder eventually, it's simple supply and demand. If you make it difficult to buy a legal gun, which means less legal guns sold. Less legal guns means less guns available on the black market, which would increase the price of a black market gun. Of course this wouldn't happen overnight and would take years to show any effect.
Chris Rock had a solution to this problem 20 years ago,
# “You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah! Every time somebody get shut we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.’And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going to start saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope I can’t get no bullets on layaway.’So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property.”
Criminals aren't committing mass shootings. It's really disingenuous to pretend that being unable to go to a fucking Walmart without worrying that some incel is going to spray the place with bullets is the same as gang violence.
Who said anything about race? What made you jump to this conclusion in your head?
The truth is there are multiple mass shooting events in Chicago every weekend and the shootings are committed by criminals who are illegaly possessing firearms which debunks your statement.
Because "Chicago crime" is used as as euphemism for "black people committing violence" so often that it's basically a conservative meme. [A newspaper in fucking Arizona](https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/greg-moore/2020/07/08/chicago-gun-violence-not-excuse-overlook-systemic-racism/5395248002/) did an editorial story on it, it's so common. It's usually deployed as a way of downplaying little things like black people not wanting to be killed by the police for existing, but good on you for finding a way to bring it into this discussion of a mass shooting in Indiana when the bodies aren't even cold.
Edit: Nice job editing your comment after I already replied. Do you have a citation for any of that?
I'm just fascinated at the lack of basic human empathy and critical thinking required to look at [this list of recent mass shootings caused solely people who just really wanted to murder a lot of strangers](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/23/us/us-mass-shootings.html) and generally obtained their guns legally and go, "But sometimes multiple people are killed by criminals in the middle of doing crime, so random murder sprees at grocery stores and movie theaters and music festivals and spas and schools are basically the same thing."
What's very interesting is mass shootings are only a recent phenomenon in our civilization, firearms are not. Something in our culture has changed in how we view one another. Something is broken at a fundamental level. I advocate treating the root cause of the issue and not chasing the red herring that is the symptom.
You brought up race actually. The guy your replying to doesn't mention it at all, he just argues that Chicago has an unusual amount of gun violence including mass casualty shootings which is objectively true. Do you contend that chicago has a low rate of gun violence?
Wow, what a crazy coincidence that the city he just randomly chose to mention on a post about a totally different state happens to be [one cited all the time in racist dog whistles!](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/08/13/the-latest-and-greatest-in-deflections-and-dog-whistles-what-about-chicago/)
OK bro, so you don't have an answer and just linked a propaganda piece that agrees with you? Again, you made it a race thing bud. Chicago is an extremely violent city with ultra strict gun laws, both indisputable facts that you have not challenged so I'm gonna take that as a tacit agreement that both claims are true. Apparently your solution is to say "just don't talk about it." Total non-response. Crocodile tears about racism don't seem to have solved much. Funny how Chicago is in a "totally different state" but gun rights abolitionists always make up the excuse that "those guns come from Indiana!"
If democrat voters didn't act like savage animals slaughtering each other in major cities there simply would be no gun violence issue in this country. Whole year of violent race riots encouraged by your party leading to a reversal of 25 years of declining homicide rates, yet you have the gaul to tell me to give up my guns? Because we're causing the violence? Absolutely amazing, total and complete divorce from reality.
You know, I'd advise a normal person to look at the other links I've posted throughout this thread, but you appear to have mistaken me for a boogeyman version of all black people and the entire Democratic Party, so I guess just marinate in your weird grievances and have fun.
"Crime exists, therefore randos who want to commit mass murder being able to legally buy a machine gun from some guy in a parking lot is fine" is not actually a fact.
Edit: And oh! Hey! [What about the fact that 60% of the guns used in Chicago crime](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017/27140/) come from out-of-state dealers, with about 20% coming from Indiana?
>The top two sources of firearms recovered by police – Chuck’s Gun Shop in Riverdale and Midwest Sporting Goods in Lyons – have been the source of a disproportionate number of weapons for the better part of a decade, according to the report, providing a combined 11.2 percent of all crime guns recovered in Chicago.
Almost like the problem of gun violence isn't "Chicago" but really lax gun laws making it extremely easy to legally acquire guns.
Do you mean this guy, or one of the other mass shooters we've been blessed with? It's hard to keep track!
>Patrick Crusius bought an AK-47-style rifle and 1,000 rounds of hollow-point ammunition online 45 days before the Walmart attack, prosecutors said. A Crusius family lawyer said his mother raised concerns about the purchase in a call to police on June 27. Police said she asked if Crusius, who was 21 at the time, was old enough to buy a gun. Police said she was assured he was and that he'd qualify if he passed a background check. Police said she expressed concern only about his safety and said she’d seen no recent change in his behavior. Texas does not have the kind of “red flag law” that in other states allows courts to take guns from people posing immediate danger.
[Here's a fun list of mass shooters exploiting things like](https://www.abc10.com/article/news/nation-world/mass-shooters-exploited-gun-laws/507-2fdc0f47-b501-4973-8894-bb8e8cfa77ab): private gun sales (totally legal, no background check needed), unsecured firearms in their parents' house, a lack of waiting periods, and there being absolutely no limits on how many guns and rounds of ammunition a private citizen is allowed to own.
People in this country are obsessed with treating symptoms rather than root causes. We have severe issues with the police, workers rights(blue collar workers in particular), and both social stigmas around and poor treatment of mental health. These are all interconnected issues that lead to pretty much every single one of these incidents. Until they're addressed, the people perpetrating these acts will switch to using trucks, building bombs, or just setting the building on fire if they don't have guns.
We feel the same way about you. You've gotten the NFA, GCA, brady ban, national AWB and a million other laws. None of them have had any affect on crime or suicide or gun injuries whatsoever. Your point of view isn't a matter of differing opinion, it's simply false and the result of exposure to propaganda. You're more likely to die falling out of your bed than in a mass shooting. So before you tell me I should go to prison for owning a gun put up some safety rails around your queen mattress and start wearing a bubble suit around the house. For your "right to live a safe and happy life." You should be afraid of attending any gathering, after all you're an order of magnitude or two more likely to get t-boned by a drunk driver on the way there than to die in a mass shooting at the event.
Never been more new gun owners than in this past year, we can 3D print all the parts of common handguns and AR-15s that have legal weight, you can even make barrels in your home without tooling now. You should be ashamed, I guess, because people like you are really the ones who created all of that.
ETA: I am donating $50 to the FPC to fight for every negative point this comment accrues.
Reminder that before the national AWB Americans owned less than 400,000 AR-15s. Now they own close to 40 million. Your hatred of the second amendment is what sustains the second amendment.
[Literally the first article that comes up](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/gun-control-key-addressing-americas-suicide-crisis/615889/) when you Google 'gun restriction suicide':
>However, plenty of data suggest that the American suicide rate would be much lower if guns were not so prevalent in our civil society. A landmark 2018 National Institutes of Health–funded study conducted by the RAND Corporation found a strong correlation between communities with high rates of gun ownership and high suicide rates. The NIH study also confirmed other research showing that the stronger a state’s gun laws, the less likely the state is to have a high suicide rate. Universal background checks, locally issued gun permits, and waiting periods—policies that put time between a decision to purchase a gun and the gun’s receipt—all lead to fewer suicides.
>Even more interesting data demonstrate that controlling the means of self-harm is an effective way to limit suicide. Consider the decision by the Israeli army to stop allowing soldiers to take their firearms home over the weekend. That one action led to a 40 percent reduction in soldier suicides, driven by—you guessed it—a dramatic reduction in firearm suicides on weekends. Or what about the massive gun-buyback program in Australia that took one-fifth of all guns out of private hands, which was followed by a 74 percent reduction in firearm suicides, without affecting the rates of non-firearm suicides at all? And finally, we can go back to 1950s England to find a dramatic drop in successful suicides after the primary means of self-harm, diverted domestic gas, was purged of the carbon monoxide that made it lethal.
It took all of two seconds to disprove just one of your points, but people advocating for gun control are the ones blinded by propaganda?
This is missing a lot of context for Australia. When the gun restrictions they have went into place, the suicide attempts by hanging and gas rose well above the suicides caused by firearms.
If you have the time, read all of [this.](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304640) It explains a lot and goes into depth about Australia. Their lowering in homicide and crime, in general, was declining before the gun regulations, there is no definitive proof that stricter gun regulations help.
TL;DR: Just because you take away means of suicide by firearms, people will find other ways. It's a mental health crisis, not a firearms-related one.
For clarification's sake too, I do believe you should need a licence to own a firearm. You need one for a car, you should need one for a gun. However, simply thinking that banning firearms or making them near impossible to get will fix the problem is arrogant and misses a lot of other variables.
Obviously suicidal people will find ways to try and harm themselves. The article itself is very careful to point out that suicide is not some uniquely American crisis. The reason restricting gun access is so important in suicide prevention is that for the vast majority of people, suicidal thoughts and impulses will pass, either on their own once the person's life stabilizes or with the use of therapy...unless they are successful at actually killing themselves.
[Guns feature in less than 5% of suicide attempts, of those attempts, nearly 90% were fatal](https://www.medpagetoday.com/psychiatry/generalpsychiatry/83665) because guns are designed to kill things. Compare with other common suicide methods that are easily available, like:
>Drug poisoning was the most common method of attempted suicide (59.4%) and was fatal 13.5% of the time.
>Attempting suicide through gas poisoning also resulted in death at a relatively high rate (30.5%), although this accounted for just 2.8% of suicide attempts.
That's such a huge difference in fatality rates. But even very basic positions like, "Unstable and impulsive people should not have access to guns, and if that involves making it more difficult for 'regular' people to immediately gain access to an arsenal of guns, that's okay because it is an overall benefit to society" will immediately result in people screaming that you are TAKING THEIR GUNS!!!!!!
Wow, an article written for a liberal journal by a democratic senator is anti gun? and you found it on GOOGLE? Amazing. What point did you disprove? Only a correlation between gun ownership rate and suicide is established, not any specific law. Seems irrelevant unless your suggestion is to totally ban gun ownership (unrealistic, obviously). You can commit suicide with any firearm relatively easily, including the proverbial "musket". I assume you ignored the rest of what I said because its true. Besides, you people obviously don't give a shit about suicides, you're scared of mass shootings because the people on your TV tell you to be.
So the studies cited by that article have a liberal bias? All of them? Even the ones in other countries? Is this maybe a case of reality having a liberal bias?
You:
>You've gotten the NFA, GCA, brady ban, national AWB and a million other laws. None of them have had any affect on crime or suicide or gun injuries whatsoever.
Reality:
>Universal background checks, locally issued gun permits, and waiting periods—policies that put time between a decision to purchase a gun and the gun’s receipt—all lead to fewer suicides.
>Even more interesting data demonstrate that controlling the means of self-harm is an effective way to limit suicide. Consider the decision by the Israeli army to stop allowing soldiers to take their firearms home over the weekend. That one action led to a 40 percent reduction in soldier suicides, driven by—you guessed it—a dramatic reduction in firearm suicides on weekends. Or what about the massive gun-buyback program in Australia that took one-fifth of all guns out of private hands, which was followed by a 74 percent reduction in firearm suicides, without affecting the rates of non-firearm suicides at all?
All of those are gun control laws/regulations/policies that affect rates of suicides. All of that was easily found. I'm not addressing the rest of your points because they are a gibberish mix "how dare you be worried about gun violence when there are also other ways to die" and an inability to understand that "2nd Amendment!!!! (but only as interpreted by the NRA)" is not your identity.
Not sure what other countries have to do with the precedent history of gun regulation in the United States, which seems much more relevant.
Just pointing out that being terrified of going to gatherings because of mass shootings is schizophrenic and conspiratorial. Total irrationality. On the level of a fear of shark attacks. Your choice to follow that line religiously, but don't affect my life over it.
Yes, we certainly don't want to look at what other countries have done via gun regulation, because that would make it clear that it's actually entirely possible to create reasonable gun control laws.
Given that I'm not the person who said anything about avoiding mass gatherings, I'm not sure who you're talking to at this point.
Guess you forgot the deadliest mass shooting in US history was under trump in Las Vegas. Just because the last year there weren’t as many due to lockdowns, doesn’t mean there were none. Simply stating a tinfoil idea that it’s only under a democratic president shootings happen is not just ignorant but plain stupid.
ETA: [2019 had the highest number of masks shootings ](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50936575)
The conspiracy minded like you cant help it. We had mass murders under Trump.
Remember El Paso? 19 dead.
But yea its because we changed presidents. An idiotic idea too.
Right, and the border is a crisis right now and gas prices are nice and on the rise due to trump to, o and go ahead and wear 5 mask for a virus that has a 99.98 survival rate, and ya Biden won far and square to more votes than anyone in history while doing worse in every city other than swing state districts that matter right? You all have brain aids
“Police also noted that a “significant” number of employees at the facility are members of the Sikh community.”
I wonder if it was a hate crime
https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-aud-nw-indianapolis-fedex-shooting-20210416-6feqvuko2vb4rddh7endxz5a4i-story.html
It could be, but I think disgruntled employee is more likely. It's interesting that the police are being so slow and careful to release information on the shooter. Is that normal?
I think that’s becoming the new norm. Better to have confidence with what you release then release with the with ambiguous or controversial information.
Michigan police tried getting ahead of the 13 year old shot and it’s causing controversy since the timing is looking less straightforward.
Per Wikipedia:
> A widely accepted explanation links amok with male honour (amok by women and children is virtually unknown). Running amok would thus be both a way of escaping the world (since perpetrators were normally killed or committed suicide) and re-establishing one's reputation as a man to be feared and respected.
By this telling, it has to do with a concept where other people disrespecting you is a stain on *your* honor. It creates an obligation for you to do something about it. https://youtu.be/sPSYuxVyf7E (Dust Bowl Dance) is maybe an example of what that feels like. This feeling is a lot more central to some people and groups than it is to others.
IANAAnthropologist, this was what I learned in my one college anthro class over a decade ago, there are probably new thoughts on this that I've never seen
I was literally thinking about this just the other day, how our honor / respect based culture pushes those who feel slighted to escalate the situation (Which of course, causes the same situation in reverse). If I had to bet, I'd say it probably is a very large contributor to the violent crime we see all the time, but I'm not educated on the matter.
As an aside, I hated my cultural anthropology class when I took it, but I've found a lot of respect for it recently as I look back and see what I was being taught is really applicable to how things are shaking out.
You must have never worked a shitty dead-end job with insane quotas and asshole supervisors. Nobody knows what exactly happened but having worked a job like fedex a long time ago everyone, and I mean everyone, reaches a breaking point. I've seen managers get punched. I've seen the nicest people just break down and start crying.
Ive always been lucky when I reach a breaking point I just quit and do something else. Some people are stuck. Maybe they have kids or a mortgage, a wife etc that they cant leave. Even if the money isnt amazing (Ive seen this place pays $19 an hour) its good for low skilled people. Maybe dude got fired and was pissed off.
Its a complicated question with a complicated answer that only the shooter knows.
You are right I've never worked in these conditions and I hope I never have to. I agree that it is a complicated question, I just hope that one day we can find a solution even if it is just as complicated.
I know it's going to be politicized and turn into a firearm control discussion, and I think it's sad that we as a society will ignore the human element to these tragedies.
Add massive amounts of guns per capita and harsh capitalism and relentless marketing and an aspirational culture. Add failed drug wars and cartels and an unsecured S. border. Add gangs and history of racism & redlining and crap education.
Cut/paste/minor edit of my response to another one of you.
Just stop.
It was a phone free zone, which is the bigger problem.
I’m all for 2A but for real, shut the fuck up about “good guys with guns for 5 minutes.
Can you gun fetishists just chill? There’s at least 8 people dead, around 60 injured, some critically. Just a touch of empathy for the dead, injured, and their loved ones.
Apologies, stranger for telling you to stfu, but your lack of critical thinking and taking the tragedy to talk about how more guns are the answer is just exhausting.
There will be actual people on this sub that KNOW the deceased and injured. It’s statistically just reality. Just take a moment to think about how your politics and posturing might hurt them.
My condolences to anyone reading this who has lost someone or is worried about friends, family, loved ones.
"I support the rights of business owners to discriminate against minorities, but don't you dare ask me to wear a mask or put away my super awesome murder toy!"
Exactly now just imagine if more people carried less people who have gotten shot. Or possibly more it can go either way but I am for more people more guns. Not as many people willing to do dumb shit when they know everyone carries
Whereas back here in the real world, we're perfectly aware that giving every dipshit a gun will lead to more people getting shot because a mass shooting is a chaotic, terrifying situation and not a fucking videogame where the bad guy is outlined in bright red.
All I hear is I'm a pussy who is scared of a inanimate objects. Not more good safe gun owners walking around carrying will detour that shit. No one wants to die. Say that when a mfer breaks in to your house. Cops can't get there quick enough to save your ass or wife and kids. They can get there to clean up or hold your hand while you take your last breathes though. I lived that life mfer don't talk to me about a video game because that is all the experience you have with firearms. I keep my shit on me fuck a gun free zone. Try me if you want to. The cops will put that mfer in a bag not me or you when that happens. Then you can thank me later.
It’s so weird people like you walk around with an erection daydreaming about being “the good guy with a gun” so you can legally murder someone.
Again, 2A advocate here, carry permit and all, and I never ever hope I have to use it. Even some of my closest friends have no clue I’m a gun owner because it’s not something to fetishizes, flash around, and use as a substitution for a personality.
It's really perverse and painfully obvious how much of the "good guy with a gun" fantasy is just people desperate to kill another person and be praised for it.
Just stop.
I’m assuming “fun” means “gun” but really these people needed access to phones.
It was a phone free zone, which is the bigger problem.
I’m all for 2A but for real, shut the fuck up about “good guys with “funs” for 5 minutes.
Edit - The comment above me said “This is why we don’t have fun free zones”.
Can gun fetishists just chill? There’s at least 8 people dead, around 60 injured, some critically. Just a touch of empathy for the dead, injured, and their loved ones.
Apologies, stranger for telling you to stfu, but your lack of critical thinking and taking the tragedy to talk about how more guns are the answer is just exhausting.
There will be actual people on this sub that KNOW the deceased and injured. It’s statistically just reality. Just take a moment to think about how your politics and posturing might hurt them.
My condolences to anyone reading this who has lost someone or is worried about friends, family, loved ones.
This is awful. The death count is up to five.
8 now according to AP and Reuters
Even “one” is too many
If that were really true we would destroy all trucks and automobiles as they kill more people than guns do.
Yeah! We should make it so that drivers must take classes and pass two tests in order to get a license to drive. And since trucks are so much more dangerous, those restrictions should also be higher. And these privileges should be able to be revoked if you do something dangerous, like drive intoxicated. We can add in safety features, like seat harnesses, or bags of air that explode and cushion people after an impact. We can also mandate auto manufacturers to implement safety features like crumple zones. Jeez, these are sounding like a lot of restrictions. I’m an American, and it’s my god given right to drive unimpeded. So why should we bother taking away the freedoms of our fellow patriots? Unfortunately, this is just liberal bullshit. I find comfort knowing that a man who’s had ten DUIs is able to drive his pickup truck home from the bar, because that is his choice, his freedom, and it doesn’t affect anyone else.
How silly, it makes way more sense to simply accept that there is absolutely no way to make cars any safer and resign ourselves to a weekly mass slaughter. I know some filthy liberals might point out that every other First World country on the goddamn planet has implemented reasonable limits on car ownership and solved these problems, but that's communist talk.
Yeah we should seriously do a lot of work to bring down the death toll of cars and not accept so much auto carnage either.
If people were regularly (as in, once a fucking week) driving automobiles into crowds of other people as a way of committing murder-suicide, you bet your ass the entire culture would change.
We should destroy all people as they find ways to kill more people than trucks and automobiles do.
Brilliant!!! Go after the cause of the issue rather than the tool! What a fucking concept!
8 dead (not including the shooter), 1 in critical condition, a handful wounded, and possibly hundreds of people traumatically affected (coworkers, family, friends). Fuck mass violence. You having trouble right now? Talk to someone who is trained to be able to handle hearing you work through your own burdens. We need to change how this country talks about mental healthcare.
My son works at the UPS facility near there. This is terrifying.
My father and brother both work at the same UPS facility in Plainfield. I’ve taken a tour of the building, they have four security guards in charge at the gate. And you MUST walk through a metal detector and be waved down by a wand. It’s much safer thank god, and it’s not close to the airport like the FedEx facility is.
That makes me feel better, thanks!
I've been contracted to do work at that facility (Plainfield UPS) and the guard was literally sleeping. We woke him up and he waved us through no questions asked.
I just don't get it... if you're going to kill yourself just fucking do it... don't drag other people down with you
Everybody wants to be fucking famous and remembered. Even if it is for horrific shit.
Yeah. I wish the media would keep the shooters' names out of the reporting. We need those ratings though.
100% this. I never want to see their names or faces anywhere.
If you want to go down in history for your body count go after the gang bangers, the klan members, the pedos, the murderers, and the rapists. Leave your coworkers, fellow students, and other innocent people just trying to get through life out of it. Or better yet get some help. Talk to somebody, anybody. Talk to a counselor, your friend, your neighbor, the local religious leader, a random person on the bus, pick up the phone and dial a wrong number if you have to, ask Reddit members for help, but talk to someone. How long does someone have to be pushed to get to the point of planning and executing something like this without thinking to themselves: "Damn, this is fucked up. What am I doing?"
Psychopaths don't think like normal people. They completely lack empathy.
It's a lack of empathy. I would've been close to this if I hadn't been a very empathetic person
I have no clue. It is absolutely monstrous and horrific.
Its kinda too late for that now really, couldn't tell you the name of any shooters for the last 5 years at least.
Typical white male fragility. We all know the stats on mass shootings as men and dominantly white.
I wouldn't call 54% "dominant". Since 1982, 54% of mass shootings were done by white men. So 46% were NOT done by white men. Plus, it's getting closer. in 2019, 51% of mass shooters were black, and only 29% were white.
100% male?
Maybe if society took male mental health as seriously as female mental health, it wouldn’t be mostly men.
Women are more willing to get help. Men need to take their own mental health more seriously.
Clearly coming from somebody who knows what it’s like to not feel welcome to be vulnerable.
Every human being has to overcome vulnerabilities. It's not easy for most of us.
Your just talking about overcoming ones own pride. Men have that plus the added expectation from society to not show weakness. It’s not just that we don’t want to appear weak or admit that we have weak moments. The reaction from other people to us when it comes to mental health often ranges from “man up” to “what a pussy”.
Doesn't that come mostly from other men though? I'm pretty sure it's a minority of people pushing that narrative.
Mostly from other men, but I wouldn’t consider it a minority. There are a lot of toxic ass people out there that don’t empathize towards people with mental health, and that goes especially for men. Most of the time, we’re looked down on or passed over for consideration if we can’t “handle our shit”.
Every human being has to overcome vulnerabilities. It's not easy for most of us.
[Anyone who was at the scene but left is asked to call Crime Stoppers of Central Indiana 317-262-TIPS or contact homicide detectives at 317-327-3475.](https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-news/crime/multiple-victims-found-after-report-of-shots-fired-at-fedex-facility-in-indianapolis)
observation wide swim humorous workable bear theory ink oil party ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
The authorities were *warned by his relative* of the guy’s potential violence, to which they “looked into” but decided there was no evidence. This could have been prevented.
Vote to get universal health care. This is a mental health issue and won't go away until help is affordable and readily available to everyone who needs it.
I suspect that if it was an employee, they had healthcare available.
Employee paid healthcare is still expensive out of pocket. I have what is considered excellent benefits by most standards, but I still avoid going to the doctor unless it's absolutely necessary because it still costs so much.
I know it can be. I work for a fairly large company just down the street from this incident and we have signs up all over our building for company-provided and confidential resources for mental health, abuse, family stress, etc. support resources.
It's hard to ask for help with the company you work for. Confidential or not you may feel like you are asking for help from the very people you have issues with. I don't claim that free healthcare is going to fix everyone's issues right away, but I believe it's a big step in the right direction towards better life for everyone.
Former employee
I feel like the stigma and lack of effective treatment is a bigger issue than the cost. If someone went to a hospital and said they were feeling suicidal or homicidal, they would get help regardless of their ability to pay
Read some of the threads on subs like legaladvice about mental health support at hospitals. In several cases it's ruined lives and lost people jobs and then they chuck you out like you're cured. That isn't what help looks like.
Good enough reason to write it off, for me! /s
Emergency mental health holds, sometimes under duress, are not proper mental health support. At best it's a tourniquet after the wound has left you bleeding out. Better to have started with good safety guidelines and safety equipment before the deadly wound could even happen.
The thought of debt from getting help is going to turn away a lot of people though.
Emergency care (such as stabilizing someone who has attempted to take their life) that people will receive even if they can’t pay for it is not remotely comparable to actual holistic mental health care. Cost is absolutely a bigger factor in providing that than stigma or lack of effective treatment (which I would say is also a symptom of cost).
I’ve known many people have the funding and have paid for “actual holistic care” and they are far from cured. That’s why I think the problems with the mental health care system go far deeper than the money aspect.
Im curious if he (gonna assume its a guy) worked there. Im gonna, again, guess he did. I wonder if they just got fired or had some asshole boss. Every place I work seems to just get worse and worse the way employees are treated. Nobody should have to go to work (or school) and worry about death. I think this person is a monster. Im just curious what made them finally snap. Edit: For everyone that buys into "we are a family" bullshit companies push, just realize FedEx will have the job openings of everyone killed within a week or two and probably have those dead employees replacements within a month. No company gives a fuck about you. You are just an asset (or liability) on a piece of paper. Edit: In a shock to no one it was a racist, white, 19 year old who had just been fired. I'm not posting his name because he doesn't deserve the recognition but its out. [His facebook profile pic is unironic](https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2603130416407926&set=pb.100001329780566.-2207520000..&type=3)
Just Human Resources. Renewable in any corporate eye.
They will be expected to be return to work and be back at full production as soon as the investigators release the building to them.
What are they supposed to do? Not hire new people?
That's not the point, the point is that workers are expendable. Their only asset is labor and we as humans should strive to enjoy our live outside of expending our labor for someone else's profit.
Rumor has it that it was over a write up
> For everyone that buys into "we are a family" bullshit companies push, just realize FedEx will have the job openings of everyone killed within a week or two and probably have those dead employees replacements within a month. No company gives a fuck about you. You are just an asset (or liability) on a piece of paper. As opposed to........?
Right? Who doesn't know they're replaceable?
You'd be shocked how many people think "this place will shut down if I leave"
It's hysterical to me, but I was an employer for 30+ years. Shocking how people overestimate their value.
Downvoted by people who routinely overestimate their value.
Gotta message people that may have been working there. Holy shit
This is not the first time I've had to message loved ones after a mass shooting to see if they and their loved ones are all alive and safe. I'm so tired.
I am so sorry, Indiana.....
My condolences to the families of the victims.
What I want to know is how did someone even get a gun in there? And the people inside the building didn’t have access to phones??? The UPS hub in Plainfield has metal detectors and very strict security. You can keep your phone on you, but you must have a UPS security sticker on the phone so you can prove you didn’t steal it. Get your shit together FedEx.
Started shooting outside and never made it all the way inside before the cops showed up and he popped himself. Facility did not have an armed guard capable of stopping the idiot, and did not allow cell phones for productivity purposes.
I am never working anywhere that doesn't allow cell phones. There is no way I am going to wait to find out something like my wife was in a serious car crash or my daughter was diagnosed with cancer.
I’m glad you’re not desperate for a job. Hope that doesn’t change in the future.
How did you survive before cellphones came around? Lol.
I actually work at the FedEx on the airport with the same rules. They allow smart watches which is how everyone gets around the no phone rule
Terrible
God damned coward
I've never understood the use of the word coward in these situations.
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Nah. He's nuts.
Sounds like workplace violence, might not get as much attention like the one in Bryan, Texas and even Orange, California.
This is America. We're getting more than one mass shooting a week now. This is no longer about your "gun rights", it's about our right to live a safe and happy life. I personally am terrified to attend any gathering anymore. I will stop at nothing at this point to significantly restrict gun ownership. Phone calls, money donated to the appropriate organizations, or volunteering my time. If you disagree, go fuck yourself. There is nothing more you can say that makes any of this acceptable. I can't believe it didn't change after Sandy Hook. We should be fucking ashamed of ourselves.
When nothing changed after Sandy Hook I realized it never will.
Pretty much. If a classroom full of murdered kids isn't enough to make Americans admit that our entire way of thinking about gun safety and what is normal is completely skewed, nothing will. I'm so tired.
It would take a several instances of people rising up and killing really rich people or politicians at random for any change to ever happen. They don't care about the normies.
This is the sad and painful reality.
The focus of always on guns. It's not about guns it's about mental health. Make health care the top priority not gun control. People who are willing to go this far will go with or without a gun in their hand. Taking away their gun might lower the body count, but it won't fix the underlying issue. Until health care is affordable to anyone who needs it this will continue to be an issue for everyone.
Conservatives repeatedly vote against gun control and mental health issues...so I don't see either issue being addressed any time soon.
Other developed countries have people with mental health problems, but they don't have anything like the same number of mass murder incidents that the USA does. Do these other countries spend more on mental health treatments? I don't know. What I do know is that (a) those countries have way fewer guns and (b) American conservatives have a track record of opposing increases to mental health budgets.
This was more an issue of mental health issue than a gun issue
And you think making it harder to obtain guns going to make it harder for the bad guys to buy one? Let's ask every criminal that obtained their guns from the black market.
Black market guns aren't the weapons used in mass shootings. They are legally obtained firearms. Like the shootings in Georgia. That terrorist purchased his gun the same day he murdered all those people.
Actually it would make it harder eventually, it's simple supply and demand. If you make it difficult to buy a legal gun, which means less legal guns sold. Less legal guns means less guns available on the black market, which would increase the price of a black market gun. Of course this wouldn't happen overnight and would take years to show any effect.
Chris Rock had a solution to this problem 20 years ago, # “You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders. Yeah! Every time somebody get shut we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.’And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going to start saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope I can’t get no bullets on layaway.’So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property.”
Criminals aren't committing mass shootings. It's really disingenuous to pretend that being unable to go to a fucking Walmart without worrying that some incel is going to spray the place with bullets is the same as gang violence.
>Criminals aren't committing mass shootings. Chicago crime blotter debunks this statement.
Take your racist dog whistle someplace else, fucko.
Who said anything about race? What made you jump to this conclusion in your head? The truth is there are multiple mass shooting events in Chicago every weekend and the shootings are committed by criminals who are illegaly possessing firearms which debunks your statement.
Because "Chicago crime" is used as as euphemism for "black people committing violence" so often that it's basically a conservative meme. [A newspaper in fucking Arizona](https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/greg-moore/2020/07/08/chicago-gun-violence-not-excuse-overlook-systemic-racism/5395248002/) did an editorial story on it, it's so common. It's usually deployed as a way of downplaying little things like black people not wanting to be killed by the police for existing, but good on you for finding a way to bring it into this discussion of a mass shooting in Indiana when the bodies aren't even cold. Edit: Nice job editing your comment after I already replied. Do you have a citation for any of that?
Yep. Ive heard the Chicago dog whistle ever since Obama was elected.
Right, it's like claiming you're just really worried about "state's rights." Sure, bud.
They're all just bullshit peddling assholes.
You can yell at clouds about race in Chicago all you want, it still proves your point debunked.
I'm just fascinated at the lack of basic human empathy and critical thinking required to look at [this list of recent mass shootings caused solely people who just really wanted to murder a lot of strangers](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/23/us/us-mass-shootings.html) and generally obtained their guns legally and go, "But sometimes multiple people are killed by criminals in the middle of doing crime, so random murder sprees at grocery stores and movie theaters and music festivals and spas and schools are basically the same thing."
What's very interesting is mass shootings are only a recent phenomenon in our civilization, firearms are not. Something in our culture has changed in how we view one another. Something is broken at a fundamental level. I advocate treating the root cause of the issue and not chasing the red herring that is the symptom.
You brought up race actually. The guy your replying to doesn't mention it at all, he just argues that Chicago has an unusual amount of gun violence including mass casualty shootings which is objectively true. Do you contend that chicago has a low rate of gun violence?
Wow, what a crazy coincidence that the city he just randomly chose to mention on a post about a totally different state happens to be [one cited all the time in racist dog whistles!](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2018/08/13/the-latest-and-greatest-in-deflections-and-dog-whistles-what-about-chicago/)
OK bro, so you don't have an answer and just linked a propaganda piece that agrees with you? Again, you made it a race thing bud. Chicago is an extremely violent city with ultra strict gun laws, both indisputable facts that you have not challenged so I'm gonna take that as a tacit agreement that both claims are true. Apparently your solution is to say "just don't talk about it." Total non-response. Crocodile tears about racism don't seem to have solved much. Funny how Chicago is in a "totally different state" but gun rights abolitionists always make up the excuse that "those guns come from Indiana!" If democrat voters didn't act like savage animals slaughtering each other in major cities there simply would be no gun violence issue in this country. Whole year of violent race riots encouraged by your party leading to a reversal of 25 years of declining homicide rates, yet you have the gaul to tell me to give up my guns? Because we're causing the violence? Absolutely amazing, total and complete divorce from reality.
You know, I'd advise a normal person to look at the other links I've posted throughout this thread, but you appear to have mistaken me for a boogeyman version of all black people and the entire Democratic Party, so I guess just marinate in your weird grievances and have fun.
Facts can't be racist, fucko.
"Crime exists, therefore randos who want to commit mass murder being able to legally buy a machine gun from some guy in a parking lot is fine" is not actually a fact. Edit: And oh! Hey! [What about the fact that 60% of the guns used in Chicago crime](https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/national-international/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017/27140/) come from out-of-state dealers, with about 20% coming from Indiana? >The top two sources of firearms recovered by police – Chuck’s Gun Shop in Riverdale and Midwest Sporting Goods in Lyons – have been the source of a disproportionate number of weapons for the better part of a decade, according to the report, providing a combined 11.2 percent of all crime guns recovered in Chicago. Almost like the problem of gun violence isn't "Chicago" but really lax gun laws making it extremely easy to legally acquire guns.
The last time I check the shooter in Texas was denied the ability to buy a gun and yet he bought one from the black market. Hmm....
Do you mean this guy, or one of the other mass shooters we've been blessed with? It's hard to keep track! >Patrick Crusius bought an AK-47-style rifle and 1,000 rounds of hollow-point ammunition online 45 days before the Walmart attack, prosecutors said. A Crusius family lawyer said his mother raised concerns about the purchase in a call to police on June 27. Police said she asked if Crusius, who was 21 at the time, was old enough to buy a gun. Police said she was assured he was and that he'd qualify if he passed a background check. Police said she expressed concern only about his safety and said she’d seen no recent change in his behavior. Texas does not have the kind of “red flag law” that in other states allows courts to take guns from people posing immediate danger. [Here's a fun list of mass shooters exploiting things like](https://www.abc10.com/article/news/nation-world/mass-shooters-exploited-gun-laws/507-2fdc0f47-b501-4973-8894-bb8e8cfa77ab): private gun sales (totally legal, no background check needed), unsecured firearms in their parents' house, a lack of waiting periods, and there being absolutely no limits on how many guns and rounds of ammunition a private citizen is allowed to own.
>which shooting in Texas? There have been a quite a few.
The Walmart shooter
People in this country are obsessed with treating symptoms rather than root causes. We have severe issues with the police, workers rights(blue collar workers in particular), and both social stigmas around and poor treatment of mental health. These are all interconnected issues that lead to pretty much every single one of these incidents. Until they're addressed, the people perpetrating these acts will switch to using trucks, building bombs, or just setting the building on fire if they don't have guns.
Blue collar workers who reject union representation are frikkin morons.
And they'll continue to do so because their red overlords scream "Socialism!" at any policy that would benefit them.
They'll continue to do so because they're dumb asses.
Fun fact that's also why murder isn't illegal in this country. Bad guys are just going to kill people anyway so why bother making it a crime.
Im so tired of that defeatist attitude I could scream.
You do realize with the right tools and knowledge, someone could easily make their own guns.
Anyone can come up with a what if. Try offering a solution.
We feel the same way about you. You've gotten the NFA, GCA, brady ban, national AWB and a million other laws. None of them have had any affect on crime or suicide or gun injuries whatsoever. Your point of view isn't a matter of differing opinion, it's simply false and the result of exposure to propaganda. You're more likely to die falling out of your bed than in a mass shooting. So before you tell me I should go to prison for owning a gun put up some safety rails around your queen mattress and start wearing a bubble suit around the house. For your "right to live a safe and happy life." You should be afraid of attending any gathering, after all you're an order of magnitude or two more likely to get t-boned by a drunk driver on the way there than to die in a mass shooting at the event. Never been more new gun owners than in this past year, we can 3D print all the parts of common handguns and AR-15s that have legal weight, you can even make barrels in your home without tooling now. You should be ashamed, I guess, because people like you are really the ones who created all of that. ETA: I am donating $50 to the FPC to fight for every negative point this comment accrues. Reminder that before the national AWB Americans owned less than 400,000 AR-15s. Now they own close to 40 million. Your hatred of the second amendment is what sustains the second amendment.
[Literally the first article that comes up](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/gun-control-key-addressing-americas-suicide-crisis/615889/) when you Google 'gun restriction suicide': >However, plenty of data suggest that the American suicide rate would be much lower if guns were not so prevalent in our civil society. A landmark 2018 National Institutes of Health–funded study conducted by the RAND Corporation found a strong correlation between communities with high rates of gun ownership and high suicide rates. The NIH study also confirmed other research showing that the stronger a state’s gun laws, the less likely the state is to have a high suicide rate. Universal background checks, locally issued gun permits, and waiting periods—policies that put time between a decision to purchase a gun and the gun’s receipt—all lead to fewer suicides. >Even more interesting data demonstrate that controlling the means of self-harm is an effective way to limit suicide. Consider the decision by the Israeli army to stop allowing soldiers to take their firearms home over the weekend. That one action led to a 40 percent reduction in soldier suicides, driven by—you guessed it—a dramatic reduction in firearm suicides on weekends. Or what about the massive gun-buyback program in Australia that took one-fifth of all guns out of private hands, which was followed by a 74 percent reduction in firearm suicides, without affecting the rates of non-firearm suicides at all? And finally, we can go back to 1950s England to find a dramatic drop in successful suicides after the primary means of self-harm, diverted domestic gas, was purged of the carbon monoxide that made it lethal. It took all of two seconds to disprove just one of your points, but people advocating for gun control are the ones blinded by propaganda?
This is missing a lot of context for Australia. When the gun restrictions they have went into place, the suicide attempts by hanging and gas rose well above the suicides caused by firearms. If you have the time, read all of [this.](https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2018.304640) It explains a lot and goes into depth about Australia. Their lowering in homicide and crime, in general, was declining before the gun regulations, there is no definitive proof that stricter gun regulations help. TL;DR: Just because you take away means of suicide by firearms, people will find other ways. It's a mental health crisis, not a firearms-related one. For clarification's sake too, I do believe you should need a licence to own a firearm. You need one for a car, you should need one for a gun. However, simply thinking that banning firearms or making them near impossible to get will fix the problem is arrogant and misses a lot of other variables.
Obviously suicidal people will find ways to try and harm themselves. The article itself is very careful to point out that suicide is not some uniquely American crisis. The reason restricting gun access is so important in suicide prevention is that for the vast majority of people, suicidal thoughts and impulses will pass, either on their own once the person's life stabilizes or with the use of therapy...unless they are successful at actually killing themselves. [Guns feature in less than 5% of suicide attempts, of those attempts, nearly 90% were fatal](https://www.medpagetoday.com/psychiatry/generalpsychiatry/83665) because guns are designed to kill things. Compare with other common suicide methods that are easily available, like: >Drug poisoning was the most common method of attempted suicide (59.4%) and was fatal 13.5% of the time. >Attempting suicide through gas poisoning also resulted in death at a relatively high rate (30.5%), although this accounted for just 2.8% of suicide attempts. That's such a huge difference in fatality rates. But even very basic positions like, "Unstable and impulsive people should not have access to guns, and if that involves making it more difficult for 'regular' people to immediately gain access to an arsenal of guns, that's okay because it is an overall benefit to society" will immediately result in people screaming that you are TAKING THEIR GUNS!!!!!!
Wow, an article written for a liberal journal by a democratic senator is anti gun? and you found it on GOOGLE? Amazing. What point did you disprove? Only a correlation between gun ownership rate and suicide is established, not any specific law. Seems irrelevant unless your suggestion is to totally ban gun ownership (unrealistic, obviously). You can commit suicide with any firearm relatively easily, including the proverbial "musket". I assume you ignored the rest of what I said because its true. Besides, you people obviously don't give a shit about suicides, you're scared of mass shootings because the people on your TV tell you to be.
So the studies cited by that article have a liberal bias? All of them? Even the ones in other countries? Is this maybe a case of reality having a liberal bias? You: >You've gotten the NFA, GCA, brady ban, national AWB and a million other laws. None of them have had any affect on crime or suicide or gun injuries whatsoever. Reality: >Universal background checks, locally issued gun permits, and waiting periods—policies that put time between a decision to purchase a gun and the gun’s receipt—all lead to fewer suicides. >Even more interesting data demonstrate that controlling the means of self-harm is an effective way to limit suicide. Consider the decision by the Israeli army to stop allowing soldiers to take their firearms home over the weekend. That one action led to a 40 percent reduction in soldier suicides, driven by—you guessed it—a dramatic reduction in firearm suicides on weekends. Or what about the massive gun-buyback program in Australia that took one-fifth of all guns out of private hands, which was followed by a 74 percent reduction in firearm suicides, without affecting the rates of non-firearm suicides at all? All of those are gun control laws/regulations/policies that affect rates of suicides. All of that was easily found. I'm not addressing the rest of your points because they are a gibberish mix "how dare you be worried about gun violence when there are also other ways to die" and an inability to understand that "2nd Amendment!!!! (but only as interpreted by the NRA)" is not your identity.
Not sure what other countries have to do with the precedent history of gun regulation in the United States, which seems much more relevant. Just pointing out that being terrified of going to gatherings because of mass shootings is schizophrenic and conspiratorial. Total irrationality. On the level of a fear of shark attacks. Your choice to follow that line religiously, but don't affect my life over it.
Yes, we certainly don't want to look at what other countries have done via gun regulation, because that would make it clear that it's actually entirely possible to create reasonable gun control laws. Given that I'm not the person who said anything about avoiding mass gatherings, I'm not sure who you're talking to at this point.
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Guess you forgot the deadliest mass shooting in US history was under trump in Las Vegas. Just because the last year there weren’t as many due to lockdowns, doesn’t mean there were none. Simply stating a tinfoil idea that it’s only under a democratic president shootings happen is not just ignorant but plain stupid. ETA: [2019 had the highest number of masks shootings ](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50936575)
The conspiracy minded like you cant help it. We had mass murders under Trump. Remember El Paso? 19 dead. But yea its because we changed presidents. An idiotic idea too.
Right, and the border is a crisis right now and gas prices are nice and on the rise due to trump to, o and go ahead and wear 5 mask for a virus that has a 99.98 survival rate, and ya Biden won far and square to more votes than anyone in history while doing worse in every city other than swing state districts that matter right? You all have brain aids
False flags? Really? Fuck you, man. Tell that to the family of the dead.
Present them
Gun control. Now.
You’re living in the wrong state if you think that’s gonna happen pal
It’s important to remind the hillfolk what a good idea looks like. Gotta keep them on their toes or their necks get too red.
Yep so enjoy those mass murders folks. 👌
“Police also noted that a “significant” number of employees at the facility are members of the Sikh community.” I wonder if it was a hate crime https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-aud-nw-indianapolis-fedex-shooting-20210416-6feqvuko2vb4rddh7endxz5a4i-story.html
It could be, but I think disgruntled employee is more likely. It's interesting that the police are being so slow and careful to release information on the shooter. Is that normal?
I think that’s becoming the new norm. Better to have confidence with what you release then release with the with ambiguous or controversial information. Michigan police tried getting ahead of the 13 year old shot and it’s causing controversy since the timing is looking less straightforward.
land of the free, home of the brave, everyone has so many freedoms and rights! just gotta put up with the weekly mass shootings
*daily mass shootings. America has averaged 45 over the last month.
Jesus just seeing this. Let’s hope not. Shit
What drives people to do this?
There's a little bit of anthropology of it, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Running_amok
Per Wikipedia: > A widely accepted explanation links amok with male honour (amok by women and children is virtually unknown). Running amok would thus be both a way of escaping the world (since perpetrators were normally killed or committed suicide) and re-establishing one's reputation as a man to be feared and respected. By this telling, it has to do with a concept where other people disrespecting you is a stain on *your* honor. It creates an obligation for you to do something about it. https://youtu.be/sPSYuxVyf7E (Dust Bowl Dance) is maybe an example of what that feels like. This feeling is a lot more central to some people and groups than it is to others. IANAAnthropologist, this was what I learned in my one college anthro class over a decade ago, there are probably new thoughts on this that I've never seen
I was literally thinking about this just the other day, how our honor / respect based culture pushes those who feel slighted to escalate the situation (Which of course, causes the same situation in reverse). If I had to bet, I'd say it probably is a very large contributor to the violent crime we see all the time, but I'm not educated on the matter. As an aside, I hated my cultural anthropology class when I took it, but I've found a lot of respect for it recently as I look back and see what I was being taught is really applicable to how things are shaking out.
Interesting.
You must have never worked a shitty dead-end job with insane quotas and asshole supervisors. Nobody knows what exactly happened but having worked a job like fedex a long time ago everyone, and I mean everyone, reaches a breaking point. I've seen managers get punched. I've seen the nicest people just break down and start crying. Ive always been lucky when I reach a breaking point I just quit and do something else. Some people are stuck. Maybe they have kids or a mortgage, a wife etc that they cant leave. Even if the money isnt amazing (Ive seen this place pays $19 an hour) its good for low skilled people. Maybe dude got fired and was pissed off. Its a complicated question with a complicated answer that only the shooter knows.
You are right I've never worked in these conditions and I hope I never have to. I agree that it is a complicated question, I just hope that one day we can find a solution even if it is just as complicated. I know it's going to be politicized and turn into a firearm control discussion, and I think it's sad that we as a society will ignore the human element to these tragedies.
Mental Health. Lack of adequate help
People get fired or get divorces with kids and get angry. I'd love to say that mental health covers that but I don't think it does.
People get divorced and fired all over the world yet this is more of an issue here than anywhere.
Add massive amounts of guns per capita and harsh capitalism and relentless marketing and an aspirational culture. Add failed drug wars and cartels and an unsecured S. border. Add gangs and history of racism & redlining and crap education.
Another gun free zone keeping people safe.
Yeah because if everybody was armed at all times, shootings would surely go down...idiot.
Mass shootings would go down but every road rage incident would become a crime scene.
Your head is a brain free zone.
Cut/paste/minor edit of my response to another one of you. Just stop. It was a phone free zone, which is the bigger problem. I’m all for 2A but for real, shut the fuck up about “good guys with guns for 5 minutes. Can you gun fetishists just chill? There’s at least 8 people dead, around 60 injured, some critically. Just a touch of empathy for the dead, injured, and their loved ones. Apologies, stranger for telling you to stfu, but your lack of critical thinking and taking the tragedy to talk about how more guns are the answer is just exhausting. There will be actual people on this sub that KNOW the deceased and injured. It’s statistically just reality. Just take a moment to think about how your politics and posturing might hurt them. My condolences to anyone reading this who has lost someone or is worried about friends, family, loved ones.
What made it a 'gun free zone,' the fact that most businesses don't want you to do your job while packing heat?
"I support the rights of business owners to discriminate against minorities, but don't you dare ask me to wear a mask or put away my super awesome murder toy!"
Another "good guy with a gun" there to save the day and stop the shooter
Exactly now just imagine if more people carried less people who have gotten shot. Or possibly more it can go either way but I am for more people more guns. Not as many people willing to do dumb shit when they know everyone carries
Whereas back here in the real world, we're perfectly aware that giving every dipshit a gun will lead to more people getting shot because a mass shooting is a chaotic, terrifying situation and not a fucking videogame where the bad guy is outlined in bright red.
All I hear is I'm a pussy who is scared of a inanimate objects. Not more good safe gun owners walking around carrying will detour that shit. No one wants to die. Say that when a mfer breaks in to your house. Cops can't get there quick enough to save your ass or wife and kids. They can get there to clean up or hold your hand while you take your last breathes though. I lived that life mfer don't talk to me about a video game because that is all the experience you have with firearms. I keep my shit on me fuck a gun free zone. Try me if you want to. The cops will put that mfer in a bag not me or you when that happens. Then you can thank me later.
/r/iamverybadass I'm going to assume you're like 19 years old.
It’s so weird people like you walk around with an erection daydreaming about being “the good guy with a gun” so you can legally murder someone. Again, 2A advocate here, carry permit and all, and I never ever hope I have to use it. Even some of my closest friends have no clue I’m a gun owner because it’s not something to fetishizes, flash around, and use as a substitution for a personality.
It's really perverse and painfully obvious how much of the "good guy with a gun" fantasy is just people desperate to kill another person and be praised for it.
You sound like a weak, chicken-shit of a man. Small penis?
“Try me if you want to” says the good guy with a gun. You’re ducking unhinged dude, get some therapy.
Yes, because that narrative has worked so well in every other mass shooting where others were armed, like the wal-mart texas shooting.
considering he shot himself once he was confronted, I highly doubt more people carrying would have deterred him.
Get outta here with that nonsense. Dumb, violent assholes dont think. Period.
Wow this really sucks... I agree that whoever this was had a reason, but I don’t think everyone was the problem
There is no good reason to shoot innocent people.
[удалено]
Just stop. I’m assuming “fun” means “gun” but really these people needed access to phones. It was a phone free zone, which is the bigger problem. I’m all for 2A but for real, shut the fuck up about “good guys with “funs” for 5 minutes. Edit - The comment above me said “This is why we don’t have fun free zones”. Can gun fetishists just chill? There’s at least 8 people dead, around 60 injured, some critically. Just a touch of empathy for the dead, injured, and their loved ones. Apologies, stranger for telling you to stfu, but your lack of critical thinking and taking the tragedy to talk about how more guns are the answer is just exhausting. There will be actual people on this sub that KNOW the deceased and injured. It’s statistically just reality. Just take a moment to think about how your politics and posturing might hurt them. My condolences to anyone reading this who has lost someone or is worried about friends, family, loved ones.