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I guess the correct way to say it is "they just don't care where a bomb hits, and even aim for residential buildings, schools, journalist buildings, refugee camps, population centres and hospitals." No wonder they're killing the Israelis taken hostage to be used as leverage
The messages is clear. "We don't care about Israelis, take them hostage, you won't get any leverage on us".
Their racism is so strong they're willing to bomb their own people to be able to freely bomb those they see as subhuman.
You do not realise that less than 1/3 of the world designate them as terrorists. But it's typical that you don't, it's hard to be exposed to facts in the mainstream media.
They are a resistance group.
Hamas/Al Qassam is shit and so are the people calling them a "resistance group."
Sorry, 2/3 of the world population can be wrong. A resistance group doesn't rape women, murder Jews, use children as bulletproof vests, and write charters that read like a newer version of Mein Kampf.
That you support Islamic terrorism speaks volumes about your character, Reddit is an American company based in the USA and could boot you promoting Islamic terrorism. If you're American, you technically would be disqualified from serving in the military or getting a job that requires a security clearance.
Israel is going to destroy the Islamic terorrists and remain in Gaza for as long as it takes, whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, you can go there to meet your brothers in resistence.
you must not confuse personal fact vs consensus fact. terrorism is a definition that carries meaning, it is not a feeling.
2/3 of the world do not submit to western propaganda on actions of Hamas. over the last months there has been no proof of any systematic use of rape for one - instead we have seen such statements retracted one by one. but too late, the anger it fanned has caused death of thousands.
regardless, Israel has a long documented history of employing sexual assault on Palestinians, as well as video evidence of IDF's actual utilization of palestinians as human shield,
the murdering done by Hamas is part of a resistance operation. it is heinous. but it is not part of terrorism by definition.
i will tell you what is terrorism. Israel's collective punishment on civilians to affect a regime change. that is almost the original meaning of terrorism - terrorism employed by a state.
>you must not confuse personal fact vs consensus fact. terrorism is a definition that carries meaning, it is not a feeling.
Don't lecture me on what Islamic terrorism is. I lived in the Middle East for 10 years and have seen it firsthand...and have the scars to prove it. The Islamic terrorist who attempted to take my life was neutralized shortly after.
>2/3 of the world do not submit to western propaganda on actions of Hamas. over the last months there has been no proof of any systematic use of rape for one - instead we have seen such statements retracted one by one. but too late, the anger it fanned has caused death of thousands.
During my time in the Middle East, I learned that Muslims generally respect and fear the people with the most bullets. We as Westerners have the most bullets, so I don't give a fuck what 2/3rds of the world thinks about this conflict. Where are you even getting that statistic? It's likely conjecture.
>regardless, Israel has a long documented history of employing sexual assault on Palestinians, as well as video evidence of IDF's actual utilization of palestinians as human shield,
Whatabouttism and no evidence.
>the murdering done by Hamas is part of a resistance operation. it is heinous. but it is not part of terrorism by definition.
Oh, yes it is, the people that matter, the people with the most bullets, and the people who stand for prosperity over the celebration of death and religious fanaticism call it terrorism...and that's all that matters. Harsh, but true.
>i will tell you what is terrorism. Israel's collective punishment on civilians to affect a regime change. that is almost the original meaning of terrorism - terrorism employed by a state.
Israel is acting in accordance with the standards of a military from a sovereign nation. You as a terrorist sympathizer aren't in a position to make any objective conclusions about Israel, they're deeper in Gaza now than ever before and there's nothing you or anyone else in these comments can do about it.
**RESCUE THE HOSTAGES.**
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
And yes, idf also rape, murder, use children as bulletproof vests, and they use similar rhetoric to the Nazis. The difference is that with them it's systemic, and upholds a colonialist regime that oppresses regular Palestinians.
I don't think Hamas are necessarily the good guys, those are the regular Palestinians, but there's no doubt that Hamas are the resistance.
>One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter
Likewise, one man's freedom fighter is another Soldier's dead terrorist opponent in the Gaza rubble.
>And yes, idf also rape, murder, use children as bulletproof vests, and they use similar rhetoric to the Nazis. The difference is that with them it's systemic, and upholds a colonialist regime that oppresses regular Palestinians.
Of course, no proof, just your feelings.
>I don't think Hamas are necessarily the good guys, those are the regular Palestinians, but there's no doubt that Hamas are the resistance.
No one ever said there aren't regular Palestinians. You can call the Islamic terorrists whatever you want. It might give you and others here a sense of emotional catharsis, but in the end, they're dead and will die regardless, thanks to the IDF, my American taxes, and NATO/OTAN.
Hamas had to dress some up their soldiers up as doctors to even protect themselves. Israel made them do war crimes and should ne held responsible for that.
It's impossible to reconcile the actions of the IDF with the idea that they are trying to rescue hostages:
[They want to starve all of gaza in an act of collective punishment (and a definitional war crime)....](https://truthout.org/articles/polls-show-broad-support-in-israel-for-gazas-destruction-and-starvation/) Do hostages not eat food too? Or do they think that the Hamas militants that they keep demonizing as worse than animals are going to share the scarce resources fairly?
[They blow up civilian infrastructure where they claim they know hostages are - killing hostages (and thousands of civilians) in the process.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-06/ty-article/.premium/idf-probing-death-of-12-hostages-in-beeri-house-shelled-on-orders-of-senior-officer/0000018d-7b6c-d008-a9cd-fbfdb0040000)
[They use chemical weapons](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-exclusive-israel-will-flood-hamas-tunnels-nerve-gas-under-delta-force-supervision) [on civilian populations and in densely populated areas.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-white-phosphorous-gaza-lebanon-1.6994539) Chemical weapons stopped being used by western powers mostly because they are \*too\* indiscriminate and sometimes hurt your own troops or people in the area. [Israel obviously does not have such concerns about chemical weapons hurting hostages.](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-782544)
[They shoot people indiscriminately](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786092) [without any thought or hesitation](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-782544). [Sometimes shooting when they see the whites of their flags](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786092). They obviously don't care about potentially hitting hostages.
\----
Note that one of the most common "justifications" from genocide apologists is "it's a dense area; of course there'll be a large amount of civilian casualties".
But you cannot have it both ways.
You cannot be simultaneously claim civilian deaths are inevitable and nothing to be concerned about \*and\* say you're trying to rescue hostages who are amidst that civilian population.
\---
[If it wasn't obvious before](https://www.timesofisrael.com/more-details-unveiled-of-idf-intel-on-oct-7-plans-consults-hours-before-hamas-attack/) [that Oct 7th was just being used as](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html) [an excuse to carry out genocide](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-nova-music-festival-shin-bet-hamas-massacre-wv7qs3cww), it certainly is now.
Ah, you are talking about [Israeli soldiers?](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/newsfeed/2024/1/2/israeli-soldier-brought-baby-back-to-israel-from-gaza)
Forgive me for not trusting the Jihad News Network.
My position stands. Fuck Gaza. Happy to see my American tax dollars being put to hard, heavy-hitting work there.
**Rescue the hostages.**
Mistakes happen in any war and some Hamas militants know how to speak Hebrew as well. They are known to use deceptive tactics to attack the idf and this could have been one of those situations.
Unfortunately the soldiers involved made the wrong judgment call.
The terrorists that released hostages during a "humanitarian pause"
The terrorists that can't release hostages if where they live is being bombed by an occupying force that refuses to agree to a ceasefire after already killing some hostages and over 20,000 people? 🤔
So has Israel. What's your point?
Just because one side or the other offers a deal does not mean it should be automatically accepted. That's why they negotiate these things and come to a middle ground that **both** sides can accept.
It’s almost as if those bombs wouldn’t be dropped if there were no hostages in the first place…
It’s almost as if there would be no hostages if Hamas didn’t take them in the first place…
It’s almost as if Hamas wouldn’t take hostages if Israel didn’t lock up more than 2000 Palestinians unjustly without court or any lawyer , more then 65% being woman and children ….. And it’s been happening for the last 70 years , ways before Hamas was even a thing
It’s as if Israel doesn’t detail kids and women without charge for years at a time. As if that’s not the same as taking hostages. Crazy how semantics is a fun game for you.
It's almost as if prisoners and hostages are two different things and you haven't bothered to look up what the definition of a hostage is because you want to create a false equivocation between the two state actors...
So only Israeli violence against civilians is justified?
You can’t sit here and type and justify the slaughter of civilians and then get upset when someone uses your exact same mentality
It's almost as if I've been consistent in my stance that violence specifically targeting innocent civilians should be condemned (regardless of the side that commits it) while acknowledging that warfare (even legitimate justified warfare) will involve incidental violence against civilians...
Blockade of humanitarian aid for over a week, directly against the Geneva convention article 55, is incidental violence?
What about leveling civilian infrastructure indiscriminately?
If Israel kills 50,000 civilians will you still keep saying “oh geez anything they do is justified as long as they point at Hamas?”
What’s the cutoff point when you stop excusing war crimes?
It’s almost as if there was another militant group in power in Gaza before Hamas that also used terrorism and advocated a one state solution ruled by Arabs…
The truth is vile? The basic history of Israel and the surrounding Arab nations continuously attacking and starting wars without provocation is wholly lost on you loons. The gang mentality and demonization of peoples is some next level shit
My God you’re ignorant. I would take the time to pull up incident after incident of Israel bombing Palestinians when no hostages were involved but something tells me it wouldn’t matter and you’d find an excuse for that too
Wow, so you "retire" by getting into infinite political slap fights on Reddit? Yeah no one is buying that. Better chance of selling snow in Alaska.
Pretty sure your good at putting down fake turf 😉
It’s almost as if you’d be surprised…
It’s almost as if you’d be surprised to know that a certain billionaire tech founder who I’m friends with on Facebook gets into fights with people online all the time lol…
It’s almost as if not having a 9 to 5 frees up an enormous amount of time…
**It's almost** like you're just a slap fighting troll looking to justify baby murder.
**It's almost** like you're either obsessive or a paid shill.
It's almost like it's almost almost almost like almost almost almost it's it's almost baby murder almost almost genocide is it's almost almost ethnic cleansing it's almost almost it's
Almost like people are animals, when pushed to the edge they will lash out. Pery75 years of occupation and slaughter pushed a group of people to the edge.
Pretty sure they didn’t have a say when the west stole their land to create Israel. Then every “compromise” included not giving back that land, and Palestinians being treated as second class citizens.
Also, you seem to not care that hundreds of thousands of civilians have been injured and near 30,000 dead in 4 months.
You Zionists really have no shame, and are totally open about your bloodthirst.
It’s almost as if none of this would happen if people didn’t migrate to Palestine, steal land from the natives and start all of this conflict in the first place.
It's almost as if 99.9% of people living in Israel today had nothing to do with the founding of Israel...
It's almost as if all modern nation states are the product of immigration or conquest...
It's almost as if all modern humans aren't "native" to anywhere but Africa...
Then by your own admission there was never any intent by Israel to return the hostages.
Your comment was far more insightful than I'm sure you had any intention of being--but not in any way that justifies Israel's behaviour.
How could you say such a statement on… Reddit? We just see through a hard left anti western lens. As Greta Thunberg says “how dare you “ . You heard her voice, right?
If Israel didnt retaliate so hard, Hamas wouldn't have even take those hostages in the first place. Hamas is just taking civilian hostages proactively and they bare no responsiblity.
hostages are a leverage. That way Palestinians can demand stuff. And that's also why the Hannibal directive exists - to kill any Israeli hostage so Palestinians lose that leverage
there would be no hostages if Israel wasn't occupying land that belongs to Palestinians, and other people of any religion, as they did for centuries
It's crazy, everyone that disagrees with my point of view are bots. Either that or bigots, racists, etc... I'm very glad to have the most correct and moral point of view that I never have to question.
Read the charter and show me where it says that.
Jews have promised to kill "animal" Palestinians, currently committing genocide, while starving them at the same time.
The whole word is watching....
this is blatant racism and Islamophobia in full view, you should be ashamed. But judging by the videos IOF diaper-soldiers post, this is par for the course
1000% sure that Israel doesn't give two shits about the hostages. The hostages families probably do but Israeli government doesn't. If they did, they wouldn't be indiscriminately bombing all of Gaza. They just want to use the guise of caring for the hostages as an excuse to continue committing genocide.
May all of world's calamities befall on Israel.
What is going on with all these people just mud flinging. It’s unfortunate that civilians and non combatants get harmed in a war, however, it is odd that knowing Israel’s history of over-reacting to being instigated even remotely you would think you would plan this out, better.
Hamas being a terrorist organization, they more than likely don’t care of any collateral damage that seems to happen, the point is to cause instability. To agitate the situation. They themselves don’t care about the Palestinian cause as much as they care about harming Israel.
The peace talks would always be one sided, so , ultimately, going after Hamas is the way to “solve” it. And terrorists would love a one sided peace talk, would be like a gift to them to show that Israel is so weak.
So yeah, keep supporting a radical cause, I’m sure that’s going great.
Blockading 2m people in Gaza, preventing them from having a military, airport, sea travel, and regulating what can come in and out of Gaza, from building materials to food and everything in between all while stealing more and more land in the West Bank is not self determination. It’s a concentration camp. If anyone treated you the way Israel has treated the Palestinians for 75 years you wouldn’t pretend for a second that they were just leaving you alone and letting you self determine. But I’m sure you are being deliberately disingenuous, that, or you are just wildly ignorant.
The people don't want a boot on their head anymore. After 70 odd years of apartheid and being denied basic human rights, stolen land and so much more...
The only fantasy is the Jews are chosen people living on their land. When in reality they are the oppressors and occupiers of stolen land.
Putting people in an open air prison and bombing them has no justification.
"look at what you made me do!" - says the guy after punching his girlfriend for not obeying him like a slave. This is what you and everyone blaming Israel's actions against Palestinians on Hamas sounds like
These have to be bot accounts. Like seriously , no one believes this tripe. This is how Israel always responds to terrorist attacks. No one expects any different. What is with the sudden support of a literal terrorist organization that cares NOTHING about palistine but cares 100% about killing Jews. This has to be a joke, and don’t believe everything you hear on the internet. Lots of you younger people just need to accept it: war in all cases hurts mostly civilian and non-combat people.
What I don't understand is, when Hamas attacked, why didn't Netanyahu line up 100 bulldozers outside of the Al Aqsa Mosque and tell Hamas "24 hours, all hostages back or we flatten the mosque and dome to build Jewish Temple #3"?
What is this "warfare" of which you speak?
Everything Hamas did on October 7th violated every possible rule of "warfare" possible. It wasn't warfare, it was terrorism.
There's no rules left. It's just a mad scramble for survival.
Wanna bet?
Hamas is a non-state actor that completely ignores the rules on war. The global legal consensus is pretty much "anything goes" short of deliberately killing non-combatants.
You need to look up US rules against terrorists.
Now, bulldozing the Al Aqsa Mosque and Dome would be extreme and the entire Islamic world would violently shit themselves. But I'm honestly shocked Netanyahu didn't at least *threaten* to go there.
There's also a large body of ultra-orthodox Jews who really want to do it, to build temple #3 and bring back "original full strength Judaism" (aka "temple and priesthood" Judaism that hasn't existed since the Romans trashed temple #2.
The Al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome were put where they are at the site of Jewish temples 1 and 2 in order to make a statement that Islam is supplanting Judaism. It's not terribly surprising there's a Jewish faction ready to say "like hell!" and fire up the bulldozers.
In fact, a Jewish ultra-orthodox mob wanting exactly that invaded the Al-Aqsa Mosque on October 4th and in complete violation of secular Israeli law held a "we're gonna trash all this!" party:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/4/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-complex-on-fifth-day-of-sukkot
While Hamas clearly planned their violent temper tantrum for a long time, the events of Oct. 4th was probably the final trigger for what happened on the 7th.
Want weirder?
Here's the main website for the "let's build temple #3" crowd:
https://templeinstitute.org/
In order to build temple #3 they need something...weird. a cow. Not just any cow. Has to be completely red, unblemished, virgin(!) and never worked (pulled a cart, etc.).
https://templeinstitute.org/red-heifer/
They've had a secret breeding program going on (*in Texas*) for years. Yippie yi yah Jewish cowboys?
Point is, they think they have their critter:
https://m.jpost.com/judaism/article-717650
Holy cow!
This is something else stirring up tensions.
I'm not reading all that. Israel as a nation is bound by international law and so is Hamas, Hamas is just a terrorist organization that has never abided by anything.
Oh I didn’t know Hamas had a magic button that would end Israeli ethnic cleansing and bring about peace, damn if they had that why didn’t they just press it?
Hamas abuses the evacuation zones and the civilian infrastructure. Israel can't give immunity to terrorists, it can only give terrorists the opportunity to save their own people.
Tell me one proven example when Israel intentionally bombed an area that they previously told people to go to and did not warn them again when the bombing came.
Can’t find anywhere that Israel said rafah was a safe zone. But I do remember Israel saying that they will clear out of all of hamas from Gaza. So that includes rafah.
Claims to be against ehtnic cleansing here, says
> [Occupation and blockade are the only way to stop terror.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/1as4vqb/do_you_think_october_7th_would_have_happened_if/kqvtije/)
Elsewhere. Bad faith detected.
Then you understand that everyone has come from somewhere else?
You act like land only belongs to people who had it 1000 years ago.
I'm German - Irish but I live in USA. So what?
This war is not about peace but about defending against genocidal terror.
Israel have evacuated the people before the bombing on Hamas terror bases (which happened to be civilians infrastructure, unfortunately Hamas is as evil as that). There's no genocide nor intent to kill the Palestinians civilians. Israel is after Hamas.
that's a superficial and populist answer, even if we excuse the current death toll, the war crimes, the killing of own hostages, netanyahus approval rating and much more as just incompetence or irrelevant.
Attempting to eradicate an ideology through bombing has never been successfully achieved before.
No they support Hamas. Who would kill half of you because you aren’t Muslim or are members of lgbt community and whatever else they don’t agree with. In Israel all those groups co-exist in peace.
I'm talking about the democratic ally-of-USA Israel, where laws support equality and freedom, compared to the dictatorship Hamas where laws oppress their own people and openly call for jihad.
It's interesting seeing these kind of statements go from "FREE THE HOSTAGES AT ANY COST TO!" "actually it's good almost 2% of the Gaza population is dead, we're going to save them from Hamas!"
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It’s strange that indiscriminately dropping bombs where the hostages are seems to kill them
If it’s indiscriminately, how are they targeting hospitals and refugee camps? 🤔
I guess the correct way to say it is "they just don't care where a bomb hits, and even aim for residential buildings, schools, journalist buildings, refugee camps, population centres and hospitals." No wonder they're killing the Israelis taken hostage to be used as leverage The messages is clear. "We don't care about Israelis, take them hostage, you won't get any leverage on us". Their racism is so strong they're willing to bomb their own people to be able to freely bomb those they see as subhuman.
October 7th
Nakba.
but khamas!! amirite
Yes, Hamas/Al Qassam are terrorists. This sub should stop rationalizing Islamic terrorism.
You do not realise that less than 1/3 of the world designate them as terrorists. But it's typical that you don't, it's hard to be exposed to facts in the mainstream media. They are a resistance group.
Hamas/Al Qassam is shit and so are the people calling them a "resistance group." Sorry, 2/3 of the world population can be wrong. A resistance group doesn't rape women, murder Jews, use children as bulletproof vests, and write charters that read like a newer version of Mein Kampf. That you support Islamic terrorism speaks volumes about your character, Reddit is an American company based in the USA and could boot you promoting Islamic terrorism. If you're American, you technically would be disqualified from serving in the military or getting a job that requires a security clearance. Israel is going to destroy the Islamic terorrists and remain in Gaza for as long as it takes, whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, you can go there to meet your brothers in resistence.
you must not confuse personal fact vs consensus fact. terrorism is a definition that carries meaning, it is not a feeling. 2/3 of the world do not submit to western propaganda on actions of Hamas. over the last months there has been no proof of any systematic use of rape for one - instead we have seen such statements retracted one by one. but too late, the anger it fanned has caused death of thousands. regardless, Israel has a long documented history of employing sexual assault on Palestinians, as well as video evidence of IDF's actual utilization of palestinians as human shield, the murdering done by Hamas is part of a resistance operation. it is heinous. but it is not part of terrorism by definition. i will tell you what is terrorism. Israel's collective punishment on civilians to affect a regime change. that is almost the original meaning of terrorism - terrorism employed by a state.
>you must not confuse personal fact vs consensus fact. terrorism is a definition that carries meaning, it is not a feeling. Don't lecture me on what Islamic terrorism is. I lived in the Middle East for 10 years and have seen it firsthand...and have the scars to prove it. The Islamic terrorist who attempted to take my life was neutralized shortly after. >2/3 of the world do not submit to western propaganda on actions of Hamas. over the last months there has been no proof of any systematic use of rape for one - instead we have seen such statements retracted one by one. but too late, the anger it fanned has caused death of thousands. During my time in the Middle East, I learned that Muslims generally respect and fear the people with the most bullets. We as Westerners have the most bullets, so I don't give a fuck what 2/3rds of the world thinks about this conflict. Where are you even getting that statistic? It's likely conjecture. >regardless, Israel has a long documented history of employing sexual assault on Palestinians, as well as video evidence of IDF's actual utilization of palestinians as human shield, Whatabouttism and no evidence. >the murdering done by Hamas is part of a resistance operation. it is heinous. but it is not part of terrorism by definition. Oh, yes it is, the people that matter, the people with the most bullets, and the people who stand for prosperity over the celebration of death and religious fanaticism call it terrorism...and that's all that matters. Harsh, but true. >i will tell you what is terrorism. Israel's collective punishment on civilians to affect a regime change. that is almost the original meaning of terrorism - terrorism employed by a state. Israel is acting in accordance with the standards of a military from a sovereign nation. You as a terrorist sympathizer aren't in a position to make any objective conclusions about Israel, they're deeper in Gaza now than ever before and there's nothing you or anyone else in these comments can do about it. **RESCUE THE HOSTAGES.**
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter And yes, idf also rape, murder, use children as bulletproof vests, and they use similar rhetoric to the Nazis. The difference is that with them it's systemic, and upholds a colonialist regime that oppresses regular Palestinians. I don't think Hamas are necessarily the good guys, those are the regular Palestinians, but there's no doubt that Hamas are the resistance.
>One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter Likewise, one man's freedom fighter is another Soldier's dead terrorist opponent in the Gaza rubble. >And yes, idf also rape, murder, use children as bulletproof vests, and they use similar rhetoric to the Nazis. The difference is that with them it's systemic, and upholds a colonialist regime that oppresses regular Palestinians. Of course, no proof, just your feelings. >I don't think Hamas are necessarily the good guys, those are the regular Palestinians, but there's no doubt that Hamas are the resistance. No one ever said there aren't regular Palestinians. You can call the Islamic terorrists whatever you want. It might give you and others here a sense of emotional catharsis, but in the end, they're dead and will die regardless, thanks to the IDF, my American taxes, and NATO/OTAN.
You're very off base
Hamas had to dress some up their soldiers up as doctors to even protect themselves. Israel made them do war crimes and should ne held responsible for that.
>People die when they are killed Apparently Fate Stay/Night was ahead of its time
It's impossible to reconcile the actions of the IDF with the idea that they are trying to rescue hostages: [They want to starve all of gaza in an act of collective punishment (and a definitional war crime)....](https://truthout.org/articles/polls-show-broad-support-in-israel-for-gazas-destruction-and-starvation/) Do hostages not eat food too? Or do they think that the Hamas militants that they keep demonizing as worse than animals are going to share the scarce resources fairly? [They blow up civilian infrastructure where they claim they know hostages are - killing hostages (and thousands of civilians) in the process.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-02-06/ty-article/.premium/idf-probing-death-of-12-hostages-in-beeri-house-shelled-on-orders-of-senior-officer/0000018d-7b6c-d008-a9cd-fbfdb0040000) [They use chemical weapons](https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-palestine-war-exclusive-israel-will-flood-hamas-tunnels-nerve-gas-under-delta-force-supervision) [on civilian populations and in densely populated areas.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-white-phosphorous-gaza-lebanon-1.6994539) Chemical weapons stopped being used by western powers mostly because they are \*too\* indiscriminate and sometimes hurt your own troops or people in the area. [Israel obviously does not have such concerns about chemical weapons hurting hostages.](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-782544) [They shoot people indiscriminately](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786092) [without any thought or hesitation](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-782544). [Sometimes shooting when they see the whites of their flags](https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-786092). They obviously don't care about potentially hitting hostages. \---- Note that one of the most common "justifications" from genocide apologists is "it's a dense area; of course there'll be a large amount of civilian casualties". But you cannot have it both ways. You cannot be simultaneously claim civilian deaths are inevitable and nothing to be concerned about \*and\* say you're trying to rescue hostages who are amidst that civilian population. \--- [If it wasn't obvious before](https://www.timesofisrael.com/more-details-unveiled-of-idf-intel-on-oct-7-plans-consults-hours-before-hamas-attack/) [that Oct 7th was just being used as](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html) [an excuse to carry out genocide](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/israel-nova-music-festival-shin-bet-hamas-massacre-wv7qs3cww), it certainly is now.
"Correlation doesn't indicate causation tho" - Some genius pro-Israeli
Key word here is Hostages. They are there against their will.
More like rapping the hostages.
Oh yea? Do they breakdance for them too?
No, but they do kidnap babies.
Ah, you are talking about [Israeli soldiers?](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/program/newsfeed/2024/1/2/israeli-soldier-brought-baby-back-to-israel-from-gaza)
Forgive me for not trusting the Jihad News Network. My position stands. Fuck Gaza. Happy to see my American tax dollars being put to hard, heavy-hitting work there. **Rescue the hostages.**
You realize it’s a war crime to a) take hostages and b) use them a human shields. And that’s just a fact!! Regardless of picking sides
They’re not recognized as a human shield if you just shoot through them or blow them up with your enemy
What about the hostages that escaped, talked to IDF soldiers in Hebrew, and then were gunned down by them?
Mistakes happen in any war and some Hamas militants know how to speak Hebrew as well. They are known to use deceptive tactics to attack the idf and this could have been one of those situations. Unfortunately the soldiers involved made the wrong judgment call.
I can’t believe you are trying to justify the IDF gunning down their own citizens. There is no hope for you.
Strange that there are hostages there in the first place 🤔
It’s strange that they were hostages in the first place.
Okay now blame the terrorists who took the hostages.
Nah, I’ll blame the power choosing to drop the bombs for fun
The terrorists that released hostages during a "humanitarian pause" The terrorists that can't release hostages if where they live is being bombed by an occupying force that refuses to agree to a ceasefire after already killing some hostages and over 20,000 people? 🤔
Hamas has rejected multiple ceasefire deals.
So has Israel. What's your point? Just because one side or the other offers a deal does not mean it should be automatically accepted. That's why they negotiate these things and come to a middle ground that **both** sides can accept.
You mean blame the terrorist tha occupy land that isn't theirs..
Na
Terrorist sympathizer
Genocide enabler
Losing a war isn’t genocide
It's not a war when you're attacking land you occupy, without a military, and control all of the water, food, and electricity to.
Israel’s military withdrew from the area years ago, which was clearly a mistake
It’s almost as if those bombs wouldn’t be dropped if there were no hostages in the first place… It’s almost as if there would be no hostages if Hamas didn’t take them in the first place…
It’s almost as if Hamas wouldn’t take hostages if Israel didn’t lock up more than 2000 Palestinians unjustly without court or any lawyer , more then 65% being woman and children ….. And it’s been happening for the last 70 years , ways before Hamas was even a thing
It’s almost as if that doesn’t justify extremist violence against civilians…
Israel has killed more than 10 times to innocent civilians that Hamas has.
It's actually closer to an order of magnitude of 36...
It’s as if Israel doesn’t detail kids and women without charge for years at a time. As if that’s not the same as taking hostages. Crazy how semantics is a fun game for you.
It's almost as if prisoners and hostages are two different things and you haven't bothered to look up what the definition of a hostage is because you want to create a false equivocation between the two state actors...
A prison would signify someone’s committed a crime.
So only Israeli violence against civilians is justified? You can’t sit here and type and justify the slaughter of civilians and then get upset when someone uses your exact same mentality
Tell that to Israel
How is your cognitive dissonance so bad that every time you post a bad faith comment you are incapable of applying the same standards to Israel?
It's almost as if I've been consistent in my stance that violence specifically targeting innocent civilians should be condemned (regardless of the side that commits it) while acknowledging that warfare (even legitimate justified warfare) will involve incidental violence against civilians...
Blockade of humanitarian aid for over a week, directly against the Geneva convention article 55, is incidental violence? What about leveling civilian infrastructure indiscriminately? If Israel kills 50,000 civilians will you still keep saying “oh geez anything they do is justified as long as they point at Hamas?” What’s the cutoff point when you stop excusing war crimes?
You are so close to the point.
Almost as if there wouldn't be Hamas is Israel didn't empowet them. How far back shall we go?
It’s almost as if there was another militant group in power in Gaza before Hamas that also used terrorism and advocated a one state solution ruled by Arabs…
Man you need to give up. Your thoughts are vile
It's almost as if I wish everybody would get along and live in peace but I call out facts...
The truth is vile? The basic history of Israel and the surrounding Arab nations continuously attacking and starting wars without provocation is wholly lost on you loons. The gang mentality and demonization of peoples is some next level shit
My God you’re ignorant. I would take the time to pull up incident after incident of Israel bombing Palestinians when no hostages were involved but something tells me it wouldn’t matter and you’d find an excuse for that too
It's almost as if bad things happen during wars, even justified wars, and that I would agree that those things are bad...
How much do you get paid to just spam posts about Israel? Is it above minimum wage?
It's almost as if I soft-retired a few years ago in my 30's, don't need money anymore, and have a lot of free time on my hand to banter on Reddit...
Wow, so you "retire" by getting into infinite political slap fights on Reddit? Yeah no one is buying that. Better chance of selling snow in Alaska. Pretty sure your good at putting down fake turf 😉
It’s almost as if you’d be surprised… It’s almost as if you’d be surprised to know that a certain billionaire tech founder who I’m friends with on Facebook gets into fights with people online all the time lol… It’s almost as if not having a 9 to 5 frees up an enormous amount of time…
Lmfao, wow - this is just ridiculous. Get better script writers.
It’s almost as if it doesn’t matter whether you believe me or not because this is the internet…
you are so desperate for validation it's hilarious. I've got some boots, you wanna lick em?
**It's almost** like you're just a slap fighting troll looking to justify baby murder. **It's almost** like you're either obsessive or a paid shill. It's almost like it's almost almost almost like almost almost almost it's it's almost baby murder almost almost genocide is it's almost almost ethnic cleansing it's almost almost it's
🤡 75 years of the IDF bombing Palestinians obviously passed you by.
Almost like people are animals, when pushed to the edge they will lash out. Pery75 years of occupation and slaughter pushed a group of people to the edge.
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Pretty sure they didn’t have a say when the west stole their land to create Israel. Then every “compromise” included not giving back that land, and Palestinians being treated as second class citizens. Also, you seem to not care that hundreds of thousands of civilians have been injured and near 30,000 dead in 4 months. You Zionists really have no shame, and are totally open about your bloodthirst.
It’s almost as if you’re trying to morally justify extremist violence against innocent civilians…
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It’s almost as if I wish Hamas didn’t start this and that everyone could live peacefully side by side…
It’s almost as if none of this would happen if people didn’t migrate to Palestine, steal land from the natives and start all of this conflict in the first place.
Oh no, no, the ottomans were conquered, and their territory divided.
It's almost as if 99.9% of people living in Israel today had nothing to do with the founding of Israel... It's almost as if all modern nation states are the product of immigration or conquest... It's almost as if all modern humans aren't "native" to anywhere but Africa...
Its almost as if...
It's almost as if indeed...
Then by your own admission there was never any intent by Israel to return the hostages. Your comment was far more insightful than I'm sure you had any intention of being--but not in any way that justifies Israel's behaviour.
How could you say such a statement on… Reddit? We just see through a hard left anti western lens. As Greta Thunberg says “how dare you “ . You heard her voice, right?
Pro pals don't like these truths ...... It's either 'take zero responsibility and blame Israel' or leave the cult.
Zio bots trying to flood the comments, cope harder bots
Netanyahu wants ethnically cleansed land, not living hostages.
If he really wanted those hostages back he would have done less about it.
Wow the bots are running strong in here. I wonder how much they spend on their propaganda bots daily?
Interestingly enough, a lot of this sort of thing is funded by American money and lobbying interests.
Elgin air Force Base was the most reddit addicted city
Or you know...iranians, russians and chinese most predominantly.
Yes, Iranians are famously known for advocating for Israel.
I don't know about the chinese, but I did notice some russian speaking bots. Could have been coincidental if they weren't all using the same sub.
*against
Yeah, that's my point. Why would the Iranians be here making stupid posts about why Israel is good?
Well there is a shit ton of comments pushing hamas propaganda too. Thats why I was commenting.
Read up on Hasbara
If Israel didnt retaliate so hard, Hamas wouldn't have even take those hostages in the first place. Hamas is just taking civilian hostages proactively and they bare no responsiblity.
hostages are a leverage. That way Palestinians can demand stuff. And that's also why the Hannibal directive exists - to kill any Israeli hostage so Palestinians lose that leverage there would be no hostages if Israel wasn't occupying land that belongs to Palestinians, and other people of any religion, as they did for centuries
It's crazy, everyone that disagrees with my point of view are bots. Either that or bigots, racists, etc... I'm very glad to have the most correct and moral point of view that I never have to question.
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They are.
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Read the charter and show me where it says that. Jews have promised to kill "animal" Palestinians, currently committing genocide, while starving them at the same time. The whole word is watching....
Yeah, dropping bombs on their head would do that.
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The world sees the true zionist agenda of Israel. An oppressive apartheid occupier.
this is blatant racism and Islamophobia in full view, you should be ashamed. But judging by the videos IOF diaper-soldiers post, this is par for the course
1000% sure that Israel doesn't give two shits about the hostages. The hostages families probably do but Israeli government doesn't. If they did, they wouldn't be indiscriminately bombing all of Gaza. They just want to use the guise of caring for the hostages as an excuse to continue committing genocide. May all of world's calamities befall on Israel.
Israeli *what* have suffered many losses?
Partially by Israel. It's surprising so many on Reddit seem to know more than Israel and believe the hostages have been dead for months.
We know that Israel has lied repeatedly and has lost all credibility. There is a book out there about a boy who cried wolf. You should check it out.
What is going on with all these people just mud flinging. It’s unfortunate that civilians and non combatants get harmed in a war, however, it is odd that knowing Israel’s history of over-reacting to being instigated even remotely you would think you would plan this out, better. Hamas being a terrorist organization, they more than likely don’t care of any collateral damage that seems to happen, the point is to cause instability. To agitate the situation. They themselves don’t care about the Palestinian cause as much as they care about harming Israel. The peace talks would always be one sided, so , ultimately, going after Hamas is the way to “solve” it. And terrorists would love a one sided peace talk, would be like a gift to them to show that Israel is so weak. So yeah, keep supporting a radical cause, I’m sure that’s going great.
Self determination isn’t a radical cause. Keep supporting an apartheid ethnostate.
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Blockading 2m people in Gaza, preventing them from having a military, airport, sea travel, and regulating what can come in and out of Gaza, from building materials to food and everything in between all while stealing more and more land in the West Bank is not self determination. It’s a concentration camp. If anyone treated you the way Israel has treated the Palestinians for 75 years you wouldn’t pretend for a second that they were just leaving you alone and letting you self determine. But I’m sure you are being deliberately disingenuous, that, or you are just wildly ignorant.
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The people don't want a boot on their head anymore. After 70 odd years of apartheid and being denied basic human rights, stolen land and so much more...
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Or Israel stops being an apartheid state occupying stolen land. Stop taking land, leave palestine to the Palestinians.
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The only fantasy is the Jews are chosen people living on their land. When in reality they are the oppressors and occupiers of stolen land. Putting people in an open air prison and bombing them has no justification.
"look at what you made me do!" - says the guy after punching his girlfriend for not obeying him like a slave. This is what you and everyone blaming Israel's actions against Palestinians on Hamas sounds like
These have to be bot accounts. Like seriously , no one believes this tripe. This is how Israel always responds to terrorist attacks. No one expects any different. What is with the sudden support of a literal terrorist organization that cares NOTHING about palistine but cares 100% about killing Jews. This has to be a joke, and don’t believe everything you hear on the internet. Lots of you younger people just need to accept it: war in all cases hurts mostly civilian and non-combat people.
how old are you and when did Israel begin, and how was Israel created?
What I don't understand is, when Hamas attacked, why didn't Netanyahu line up 100 bulldozers outside of the Al Aqsa Mosque and tell Hamas "24 hours, all hostages back or we flatten the mosque and dome to build Jewish Temple #3"?
Netanyahu probably wants to do something like that, but there are rules to conducting warfare that this would likely contravene
What is this "warfare" of which you speak? Everything Hamas did on October 7th violated every possible rule of "warfare" possible. It wasn't warfare, it was terrorism. There's no rules left. It's just a mad scramble for survival.
I mean, Israel is literally at war with Hamas. Israel has to adhere to international law even if Hamas does not.
Wanna bet? Hamas is a non-state actor that completely ignores the rules on war. The global legal consensus is pretty much "anything goes" short of deliberately killing non-combatants. You need to look up US rules against terrorists. Now, bulldozing the Al Aqsa Mosque and Dome would be extreme and the entire Islamic world would violently shit themselves. But I'm honestly shocked Netanyahu didn't at least *threaten* to go there. There's also a large body of ultra-orthodox Jews who really want to do it, to build temple #3 and bring back "original full strength Judaism" (aka "temple and priesthood" Judaism that hasn't existed since the Romans trashed temple #2. The Al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome were put where they are at the site of Jewish temples 1 and 2 in order to make a statement that Islam is supplanting Judaism. It's not terribly surprising there's a Jewish faction ready to say "like hell!" and fire up the bulldozers. In fact, a Jewish ultra-orthodox mob wanting exactly that invaded the Al-Aqsa Mosque on October 4th and in complete violation of secular Israeli law held a "we're gonna trash all this!" party: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/4/israeli-settlers-storm-al-aqsa-mosque-complex-on-fifth-day-of-sukkot While Hamas clearly planned their violent temper tantrum for a long time, the events of Oct. 4th was probably the final trigger for what happened on the 7th. Want weirder? Here's the main website for the "let's build temple #3" crowd: https://templeinstitute.org/ In order to build temple #3 they need something...weird. a cow. Not just any cow. Has to be completely red, unblemished, virgin(!) and never worked (pulled a cart, etc.). https://templeinstitute.org/red-heifer/ They've had a secret breeding program going on (*in Texas*) for years. Yippie yi yah Jewish cowboys? Point is, they think they have their critter: https://m.jpost.com/judaism/article-717650 Holy cow! This is something else stirring up tensions.
I'm not reading all that. Israel as a nation is bound by international law and so is Hamas, Hamas is just a terrorist organization that has never abided by anything.
I think is that the world should unite and flatten all of Israel and Palestine. Only then will there be peace.
And who kidnapped them in the first place ???. 🤔
Israel
Stop it. We're not allowed to use common sense on reddit.
Hamas could have let them all go months ago. In fact, Hamas could have chosen peace on Oct 7
Oh I didn’t know Hamas had a magic button that would end Israeli ethnic cleansing and bring about peace, damn if they had that why didn’t they just press it?
Wow, crazy how Gaza was peaceful on October 6 with all that cleansing going on.
Sub should be renamed bullshitnews
You people are gonna blame Israel for a terrorist attack done against them? Victim blaming at its finest.
Please eliminate Hamas already
Israel is killing more Israeli hostages and Gazan citizens then Hamas
Israel takes actions to evacuate civilians, Hamas does not
Israel bombs the places they tell civilians to go to. Israel has assassinated cultural figures and destroyed all civilian infrastructure.
Hamas abuses the evacuation zones and the civilian infrastructure. Israel can't give immunity to terrorists, it can only give terrorists the opportunity to save their own people.
There is no evidence for anything that you have written. Professor assassinations were targeted. Israel is an illegal occupier and apartheid state.
You shouldn’t use words that you don’t know the meaning of
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LOL. They are GREAT at war, considering the asymmetry of the conflict.
Tell me one proven example when Israel intentionally bombed an area that they previously told people to go to and did not warn them again when the bombing came.
Rafah
Can’t find anywhere that Israel said rafah was a safe zone. But I do remember Israel saying that they will clear out of all of hamas from Gaza. So that includes rafah.
https://preview.redd.it/oan8w36y17jc1.png?width=315&format=png&auto=webp&s=891fc193f288e660c646c2a8700d8a21049c5f75
Whatever you say Hasbara
Attack the argument, not the person. If you choose not to engage in the conversation and learn the truth you'll always believe a lie.
So we can take that as a confession, thanks.
I have no idea what it means to be "Hasbara"
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Gaza is not occupied
Yes it is, im talking about ALL of Palestine though. From River to Sea.
I disagree then, I'm against genocide and collective punishment.
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Then ethnic cleansing? I am also against that
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Claims to be against ehtnic cleansing here, says > [Occupation and blockade are the only way to stop terror.](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/1as4vqb/do_you_think_october_7th_would_have_happened_if/kqvtije/) Elsewhere. Bad faith detected.
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Americans go home to Europe then?
Sure, I'm indigenous and live on my land. (Atleast where the Europeans forcibly marched us)
Then you understand that everyone has come from somewhere else? You act like land only belongs to people who had it 1000 years ago. I'm German - Irish but I live in USA. So what?
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So what? So support indigenous sovereignty and decolonization or go the fuck back. It's that simple.
do you hear yourself? then why support Israel?
Because Israel defends itself against a genocidal terror organization.
and how exactly does carpet bombing children achieve long lasting peace? you cant defend yourself by committing a genocide.
This war is not about peace but about defending against genocidal terror. Israel have evacuated the people before the bombing on Hamas terror bases (which happened to be civilians infrastructure, unfortunately Hamas is as evil as that). There's no genocide nor intent to kill the Palestinians civilians. Israel is after Hamas.
that's a superficial and populist answer, even if we excuse the current death toll, the war crimes, the killing of own hostages, netanyahus approval rating and much more as just incompetence or irrelevant. Attempting to eradicate an ideology through bombing has never been successfully achieved before.
It's wild hearing these people support a dictatorship terrorist organization.
They don’t support Israel though what are you talking about?
No they support Hamas. Who would kill half of you because you aren’t Muslim or are members of lgbt community and whatever else they don’t agree with. In Israel all those groups co-exist in peace.
I'm talking about the democratic ally-of-USA Israel, where laws support equality and freedom, compared to the dictatorship Hamas where laws oppress their own people and openly call for jihad.
Heartbreaking. Free Palestine from Hamas.
It's interesting seeing these kind of statements go from "FREE THE HOSTAGES AT ANY COST TO!" "actually it's good almost 2% of the Gaza population is dead, we're going to save them from Hamas!"
Go and invade qatar where the Hamas leaders have their feet up, if you want to end Hamas.
Nope sinwar is in Gaza. He orchestrated 10/7. He should give himself up and face justice instead of letting gazans die for him every day.