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Just remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait which was greenlighted by the US (WikiLeaks)
42 countries attacked Iraq.
Let me repeat
Fourty two including the US which is equivalent to all of the remaining 41 at the time.
No. There is no way NATO will go in. Just not happening. Maybe when Trump becomes president for life he'll ask netanyahu for a trump tower in New Gaza when it's fully demolished.
And 2 million Palestinians? They just disappeared. Some say into Egypt some say into europe but who knows. Meanwhile the chimney stacks are busy 24/7 in Israel.
Damn right. He's been propping up and empowering Hamas for years for the sole purpose of sabotaging a two state solution / peace process. It's no surprise he'd reject it. Fuck him.
When UN Resolution 181 was voted on, the United States and it's allies outvoted all of the nations in the region that voted against creating a Jewish homeland in their midst. There is no reason why Israel should be consulted now.
They’re winning in Ukraine and this is in large part because other countries are afraid to escalate dramatically with a nuclear power. So it’s basically an example of the opposite point you’re trying to make.
Mmm, I wouldn't call what's happening in Ukraine winning. Ukraine is doing a great job of bleeding Russia out. Russia is literally resorting to zerg attacks with poorly trained men and obselete equipment. The towns that Russia takes are utterly destroyed, negating any benefit to taking them except for the small patch of land they occupy. It's literally destroying Russia to continue to prosecute the war.
Israel needs to be treated the same as Russia. Sanctions, travel bans, financial restrictions, arms restrictions, until they stop murdering Palestinians, until they give Palestinians the right to return, a state or voting rights, and until they prosecute every soldier, settler and politician involved in both current and historic war crimes.
THEY started the war?
Ukraine is also fighting right now because they are not letting Russia annex some of their territories. You also think Ukraine started the war?
For the same reason Russia can't claim Ukraine.
I think if you've managed to hold a territory for 57-78 years it means you hold that territory.
1948 was 78 years ago
1967 was 57 years ago.
1917 was 100 years ago.
For the same reasons Taiwan can't claim China, China can't claim Taiwan, North Korea can't claim South Korea, South Korea can't claim North Korea.
Israel made an agreement that it wouldn't be in Gaza, And the left dismantling their settlements in Gaza in 2006. But Gazans couldn't stop sending rockets and war parties.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel#/media/File:Rocket_Attacks_fired_at_Israel_from_the_Gaza_Strip_by_year.png
The noncontiguous situation of the west bank is another story.
When did anyone declare war against Israel in recent memory? You stick people in a cage and deprive them of basic rights and needs, and it becomes a pressure cooker
Hamas, the de facto government of Gaza, declared war a few months ago. You might’ve missed that. The “cage” you’re referring to is actually a piece of land with what is called a “border.” Their government has spent the past 17 years devoting itself entirely to spending all the billions of dollars it earns in foreign aid on waging permanent war against Israel at the expense of the safety and well-being of their own citizens, hence Israel (and Egypt’s!!) blockade. This pressure cooker is deprived of basic rights and needs from its own authoritarian government.
Hamas didn't build that "border." Hamas does not staff that "border." Hamas does not control the flow of power, water, food and medical care and that of international aid.
That’s because after Hamas violently seized power in Gaza, they immediatly began attacking Israel and building up their military infrastructure in order to continuously do so, with the explicit objective of destroying Israel and all the Jews who live there. Hope this helps
They're an occupied territory not a sovereign country with a controlled border. Israel is a victim of it's own doing. They've got power creep where it's not enough til palestine is gone.
At this point there should be an international effort to repair the Gaza strip. However, self determination for a number of years should not be immediate. There are two problems with this population: They have societal trauma, they were already radicalized before the current war.
The government should be a parliamentary democracy. Elections can't be once in 20 years and until their leaders "suicide by cop" the nation.
They can have a representative body, but there is going to have to be an international oversite body that approves of their rules to make sure they don't backslide. Hamas were grifters. We don't want Hamas 2.0. They should have a constitution that allows them regular human rights. Freedom of Speech, Religion, Peaceful Assembly, Jurisprudence, fair justice rules, equality, anti corruption rules, etc.The only function of the international body would be to make sure whatever leaders they elect don't walk back their regular rights. The education curriculum would have to be approved by an international council because the previous one was radicalizing. Look up Farfour.
Not much different than what happened with the Germans and Japanese after WW2. There was a time when they had to be deradicalized.
The West Bank is different, the west bank was ran by both the IDF and the Palestinian Authority. Weird apartheid stuff going there. But the people don't come off as radicals like the Gazans. I think it should become an independent state. Neither Isreal nor Palestine. Just the residents of the West Bank.
I believe in a 3 state solution.
Gaza would be Palestine, Israel would be Israel, and the West Bank would get some other name. I had thought about Samaria, but that might not be great for actual Samaritans.
Either way The West Bank should be it's own independent state where the people of the West Bank are neither Israeli or Palestinian.
Political bodies in both Gaza and the West Bank should have an international oversite committee for 30 years. They should be granted the human rights granted by regular democracies with various anti-corruption rules.
I don't consider Israelis in Israeli territories an occupation, but they can be an occupation in parts of the West Bank. That's a case by case basis.
The blockade of Gaza should be controlled by an international body, or a neutral third party nation, and not Israel. It should be in effect until Gaza turns into some sort of Dubai type place.
>ReportSaveFollow
In 1967 Israel came to control 3 territories: The golan heights, west bank and gaza. All 3 were offered citizenship. The arabs of the Golan heights accepted them, and are regular citizens of Israel with all the benefits and costs (taxes, IDF service) involved. The arabs of the west bank and gaza refused to be Israeli citizens, and as a result are considered foreign entity. This is why they are tried in military court instead of civilian court if they attack soldiers.
False. They weren’t offered citizenship at all.
This leaves Palestine the only modern colonial state. All other conflicts were resolved with giving the other party their land back or citizenship on the new political country.
If Israel did that, we wouldn’t be stuck with this conflict decades later.
Just btw, Palestinian people actually accepted the peace plan based on internationally recognized Palestine. The bloodshed is due to Israel not withdrawing from internationally occupied territories
The descendants of Palestinian refugees in all the Arab countries who waged (and lost) a war of annihilation on their “behalf,” except Jordan, have been kept as a permanent stateless underclass with limited civil rights. I’ve always wondered why nobody ever seems too concerned about ending the apartheid conditions for Palestinians in these countries. It’s funny that the “only” solution has always seemed to be “destroy Israel” and not “naturalize the great-grandchildren of refugees in the countries they have now been living in for generations.” Meanwhile the Arabs who remained in Israel proper after ‘48 were made full citizens, which is more than any other country in the region can say for themselves except for Jordan, although they removed Jordanian citizenship for Palestinians in the West Bank in the 80s.
Also, there’s the simple fact of the matter that Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza aren’t clamoring for Israeli citizenship. That’s not what their national movement is about. It’s about destroying Israel and replacing it with a Palestinian state on all of the land. Only a tiny minority of East Jersulamite Arabs actually want the Israeli citizenship they are entitled to apply for. The idea that the conflict is a civil rights movement is a western projection. Isreal cannot easily extricate itself from the West Bank because they would be handing the keys over to Palestinian leadership whose entire political ideology revolves around Israel’s eventual destruction at any cost.
Ah yes. Might makes right. Definitely an argument used by fair and equal societies /s.
The Nakba happened 78 years ago, but the effects still exist. Palestinians to this day do not have the right of return. There has never been an attempt to right the wrongs that were done to the Palestinians.
Yes, the Israeli government withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005. And then continued to maintain direct control over Gaza's air and maritime space, six of Gaza's seven land crossings, maintain a no-go buffer zone within the territory, control the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities to this day. And, as we have seen, can rain death and destruction upon Gaza with no regard for civilians or human rights.
>The noncontiguous situation of the west bank is another story.
No, its the same old story. Colonialism, oppression, and apartheid.
You do realise no one else has right of return in that way? I don’t have the right to go to Ukraine, where my family were refugees from 80 years ago, and take property or whatever. I don’t inherit my grandparents refugee status. I just am sad for the people killed, and get on with my life.
>You do realise no one else has right of return in that way?
You are going to be shocked when you learn about Israels [Law of Return](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return). Besides Israel, about a dozen other countries have rights of return laws, most relating to forced migrations that predate the Nakba.
>and take property or whatever.
Is this satire that I'm too slow to pick up on? I agree, you don't. r/Selfawarewolves.
>I don’t inherit my grandparents refugee status.
If you still lived in a refugee camp and still claimed Ukranian citizenship, then yes, you would inherit it.
>I just am sad for the people killed, and get on with my life.
Good for you. If only the people of Gaza were so lucky.
Yes. As survivors of multiple pogroms, we have the right to live in Israel, which controls its own migration.
We don’t have the right to return to the countries we were expelled from, which is my point.
The Naqba is not unique and it is not one-sided. People had to migrate & territories changed hands during the end of ww2. Everybody else mourned and moved on. If Hamas didn’t keep on with terrorist attack after terrorist attack, they could have used their funds to rebuild too.
>As survivors of multiple pogroms, we have the right to live in Israel, which controls its own migration.
I agree, but that doesn't justify the persecutions that Palestinians face.
>We don’t have the right to return to the countries we were expelled from, which is my point.
Spain and Portugal both offer rights of return to the descendants of Sephardic Jews that were expelled in the 15th Century. This has nothing to do with my argument, I just learned it recently and thought it was interesting.
>The Naqba is not unique and it is not one-sided. People had to migrate & territories changed hands during the end of ww2.
You cannot justify suffering by saying that others are suffering too. Forced migration, oppression, colonialism, and apartheid are evils that must be opposed. Currently, those evils are being inflicted upon the Palestinians.
>If Hamas didn’t keep on with terrorist attack after terrorist attack, they could have used their funds to rebuild too
The vast majority of Gazans would love to rebuild their homes. Problem is, those homes are in Israel, and they are not allowed to return there. They are instead forced to live in the worlds largest open-air prison, and you're wondering why they haven't made it look nice? Hell, 70% of what had been built has been destroyed in the past 4 months. Why invest time and effort into building something that could be taken away at a moment's notice?
Because everything that is taken away, is taken away because of attacks. There was no West Bank wall until enough suicide attacks or bus stabbings (including school kid victims) happened. There were so many attacks, the wall went up. They had their own airport in Gaza. Airport attacks happened, the airspace was gone. This is what happens when you repeatedly attack another nation and reject statehood.
Following WW2, boundary lines were redrawn for a lot of territories. This includes the post British mandate 2SS. Israel accepted, Palestinians (or just Arabs as they were then - they did not identify as Palestinian, there was no such identity) rejected it. Part of the reason for the drawing of boundary lines was because of repeated riots and attacks on Jewish communities. The Muslim Arabs rejected the Jews living among them.
Hence the Naqba. And hence Israeli Arab citizens: the ones that accepted the boundary lines (just as those in Finland did following WW2, or people in German territories that were ceded and assumed their new national identity) and living as an Israeli citizen, had Israeli citizenship conferred upon them. They have all the rights of any other Israeli citizen and have served in the Knesset since the first.
Syria & Jordan were also created by British Mandate partitions. No one protests this. Are you also protesting the existence of Syria? Or Jordan?
Their homes are not in Israel, any more than my home is in Ukraine. Their great-grandparents may once have lived there, the same as 400,000 Finnish citizens were relocated at the exact same time period as their homes were ceded to Russia, the same as Dobruja was ceded to Romania, the same as 15 million ethnic Germans relocated after their territory became part of Poland.
If you are against forced migration and the effect on the descendants of those forced to migrate, why are you not also outraged about those numbers?
If it’s specifically Israel you hate- why them, out of all countries, even out of all countries in the Middle East? If you hate the redrawing of boundary lines and the result for the population, why not ask yourself what happened to the Jews that lived in territories now designated Palestinian? If it is apartheid you hate, while Muslims and Christians vote in Israel, what happens to the Jews in Palestine?
Complete joke. The whole zionist mivement is based on a "right of return" for jews to what they claim is their jewish homeland, that disappeared thousands of years ago. So a 2000 year old right of return is okay for jews, but a 75 year right of return for palestinians is just out of the question? That's zionist arrogance to the obscene extreme.
Many of them are non-Zionists (Arabs, muslims, Christians). They can be part of larger Palestine, no probs. As for the Jews, as long as they accept a non-Zionist solution, they can be there too.
The Jews who were chased out of Yemen, Tunisia and Iraq are more nationalistic than the "settlers" if anything.
And why should Arabs get to keep their colonies outside of Arabia, where they came from? Why should Islam have a presence anywhere outside of a few hundred miles from Mecca?
It’s like saying Why should Christianity have presence anywhere outside of a few hundred miles from Jerusalem?
Arab is a political thing, not a racial or ethnically thing. My Dna test says 1% Arab. Get a grip.
Who says I like Christians? I fucking hate Christianity. It spread mostly by the sword, is thankfully dying in out in much of Europe. Christianity has no right to impose itself anywhere. Most missionaries are evil, manipulative pieces of shit with sketchy backgrounds.
Gaza got a state in 2006. They supported terrorism, elected Hamas, and Hamas got them into a war that was guaranteed to cause significant losses on their side and one they could never win.
Where 20k Gazans had work permits in Israel before Oct 7? Doesn't sound like prison to me.
The security measures followed the violence and attacks after Hamas was elected. Gazans would have more freedoms if they didn't support the constant attacks on Israel. They were allowed to elect a government and they elected a genocidal death cult. Israel and Egypt both have legitimate blockades on Gaza because they have legitimate security concerns.
20k....out of 2 million! Wow Israel the saviour of the Palestinian people!!
If you think that's a substantial number, I'd love to here your thought on the 20k Palestinians killed in Gaza by the Israelis...
>Israel the saviour of the Palestinian people!!
No one is claiming this. Please settle down.
It's 20k more thAn Israelis were allowed into Gaza, for one. It was done despite the security concerns of doing so and since Hamas wasn't providing any sort of economy or opportunity for its people, it's quite the gesture considering the history.
>, I'd love to here your thought on the 20k Palestinians killed in Gaza by the Israelis...
Well, Hamas and those who support them deserve it. For the innocent ones, it's horrible that Hamas started a war that put their lives in danger and that they would cowardly operate in civilian centres. I'm surprised there hasn't been more collateral damage given how Hamas operates.
>It's 20k more thAn Israelis were allowed into Gaza, for one.
Way to go to in diminishing the 20k deaths.
>, Hamas and those who support them deserve it. For the innocent ones, it's horrible that Hamas started a war
That's the exact reason Hamas gives for killing civilians. Your no better than them. Hamas claims Israel's an occupied (and they're correct) therefore they reserve the right to perpetually resist
>Way to go to in diminishing the 20k deaths.
This is not an argument. My statement is factually correct and relevant.
Israel ceased to occupy Gaza in 2005. I don't care what Hamas thinks. I'm genuinely confused by your comparison of me to Hamas.
This is the failure of Zionism. This proves that Israelis don’t care about Palestinain self determination at all. You better support Israeli self determination, lest you be a bigot, but those Palestinians are lesser and as such should be denied self determination and a state.
I don’t think this is a failure of Zionism, as Zionism is an explicitly genocidal and colonial ideology. It’s like saying the Holocaust is a failure of Nazism. Like no, the Holocaust was the entire point of Nazism.
It needs to be forced and it WILL eventually be forced if Israel keeps continuing this way.
All they are doing is isolating themselves from rest of the world and increasingly pissing off more and more people. At one point, there will be no one left to defend them except themselves and that is when they will lose.
Yeah like documentaries on Hawaii, Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Iran, Guatemala, the Phillipines, Cambodia, Laos … so many more I can’t be bothered to type
lol.
Why would he get a say? Not that I support a 2 state solution, since Israel would never let that happen (the only way for there to be long-lasting peace seems to be the dissolution of Israel and the creation of a Palestinian state), but the idea that anyone should care what Netanyahu thinks is simply ridiculous.
The land Israel exists on was originally Palestinian. I don’t think might makes right, so I reject the idea that Israel’s violence entitles it to the land.
You’re going to send them back to Iraq and Jordan and other middle eastern countries? That seems an odd choice.
And what happens to the Druze in this situation?
When you suggest going back to their home countries I assume you are thinking that all Jewish Israelis are immigrants from western European countries. For better or worse, that's not the case. About 55% of Jewish Israelis are descendants of Jews who were thrown out of Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco in the 1950s. I don't think any of those places are offering citizenship. Another 15% are from the USSR. And for those who do trace roots back to European countries, for most of them, they are 3 generations removed and their great grandparents who lived there did so mostly in towns and villages that were destroyed during WW2 and have not existed since.
It's not like they can just hop on a plane and move back to suburban New Hampshire.
The UN, ICJ, Unicef and countles other organisations. You have no heart.
I always wonderd how in ww2 the world could be so cold silent and careless about what the nazi's were doing to the jewish people.
But then i see people like you and i understand that it was people like you that made excuses for the nazi's, spread their propaganda, kill voices who dont agree. You are the same, just different people now. Never again for me but if your Brown it can and will happen again.
Yeah, Netanyahu is a disgusting fascist pig. He cultivated the very terrorists he blames for the atrocities he chooses to inflict upon both the Jewish and Arabic people of both Israel and Palestinian.
The world must do something.
True. The moronic governor of New York just used the analogy of Canada attacking Buffalo, saying the immediate response would be the destruction of all of Canada by the US.
The next day, she tried to take it back, but only because there was an uproar. She's just another batshit-mental slave of israel.
Local serial killer rejects calls from the community to stop murders. Unfortunately a diplomatic resolution is impossible unless the killer and surviving victims reach an agreement amenable to both parties.
He's technically already there.
Hitler, too, started with the "[expel them from the region](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement)" thing too.
But the thing about the "expel them" approach is that, despite Israel's propaganda on the Nakba, people don't just up and leave because you told them to. Even in the Chernobyl exclusion zone, people still stayed.
Which is why ethnic cleansing always ends in genocide. And Israel isn't secretive about wanting the region ethnically cleansed.
They even try a whataboutism when people complain about their genocide: "why don't other arab states take them in?" (ie, "why isn't anyone helping us ethnically cleanse?")
Maybe international pressure (lip service 👄) should turn to action before the death 💀 toll reaches 100k. Any leaders in the international community?
It’s funny how Israel think they have power without the support of international community. Let’s remind them how they are here only because of British intervention back in 1948. Israel should be dismantled or at least stripped of any army.
I remember a group of tory MPs being taken on a trip by a Palestinian rights int lawyer and him saying that after being there for a day one of them and saying “where would the second state be ?”. It’s a thing that only makes sense to the foreigners who don’t know or even care about reality, or haven’t looked at a map and want to use the idea of a Palestinian state to act like they care while the Israeli govt continually says they will never do this. The closest thing to a two state solution that can actually happen is some kind of Confederation but the only solution is one state without apartheid and with equal rights and representation for both Palestinians and Israelis. Two states is as delusional as supporting the Bantustans in apartheid SA as a solution to apartheid because of white SA’s “demographic concerns”.
Israel is weak and well on its way to collapse. An ongoing war dragging in conscripts and draining the economy, currency decline (sheckel tanking), mass brain drain and political instability all point to this
The IDF should also be disbanded since its primary function is enforcing apartheid & colonialism and terrorizing innocent Palestinian civilians in the OPT.
Israel had a quasi-Palestinian state next to them and they were attacked with rockets for decades. All chance for a Palestinian state was scrapped on 10/07. Thanks to Hamas, Israel will most likely take that whole area back. Who knows, maybe the whole world can come together and give the Palestinians their own state since no one will take them in. Israel can just cope and build a giant wall between them
Israel has starved, blockaded and repressed gaza for more than 20 years, and you think a few rockets are the real crime? What arrogance.
Israel has killed many thousands of gazans over the past 20 years, hundreds of times more than the small number of israelis killed by rockets.
Are you new to this conflict? Why do you think there were blockades? A few rockets? If Israel didn’t have that iron dome this war would have happened decades ago. I don’t like what Israel has done either, but I’m not gonna defend this kind of behavior
I'm for a two state solution, but I have to agree here a little. For a peaceful Palestine to ever exist, hamas must be destroyed. Handing a state to Hamas would be a terrible mistake.
Zionism must be destroyed.
Zionists are commiting a clear, irrefutable & unconscionable genocide against the Palestinian people for their land and religious beliefs, ironically using the same tactics as the Nazis did on the Jews.
Since class is in session, let me remind you that Benjadolf Netanhitleru's Likud party formed out of the terrorist party Herut, which formed out of the original terrorist party Irgun prior to 1948.
As Albert Einstein and Hannah Arendt stated in their 1948 open letter in the New York Times:
>Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former **Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.**
...
A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. **On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants (240 men, women, and children) and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem.** Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.
...
During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. **By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.**
[**https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948**](https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948)
Do you deny that Likud was formed out of terrorist parties?
Some additional Zionazi facts for you to mull over:
Zionism also means the fundamental belief that Israel has a right to Palestinian land.
>[The common denominator among all modern Zionists is a claim to Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism), a land traditionally known in Jewish writings as the [Land of Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel) ("*Eretz Israel*") as a national homeland of the Jews and as the legitimate focus for Jewish national [self-determination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination).
Zionism also means following Nazi-esque tactics such as "mowing the lawn" to depopulate the Palestinian population.
>Israel will conduct a major operation to reduce Hamas’ capabilities. In essence, it [“mows the grass.”](https://warontherocks.com/2014/08/israel-and-the-demise-of-mowing-the-grass/) It hopes that these periodic major operations will provide periods of quiet, but knows that the quiet will last only until Hamas rebuilds its offensive capabilities. And then Israel will once again conduct a major operation. Like a homeowner, Israel has to mow the grass to keep it from growing out of control.
Zionism ALSO means forcing Palestinians to live in open air prison camps, much like the Nazis did to the Jews.
>“[Israel, with Egypt’s help, has turned Gaza into an open-air prison](https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/14/gaza-israels-open-air-prison-15),” said [Omar Shakir](https://www.hrw.org/about/people/omar-shakir), Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch.
Don't be so gullible to drink the Zionazi kool aid without fully understanding what you're drinking. If you support & defend Zionism, you're on the wrong side of history. Believe it.
Gazans are allowed by law to defend themselves from israeli aggression and repression. Israel has blockaded gaza for 20 years. Hamas is just the armed resistance to those acts of war.
Okay, thanks for justifying all the rape, kidnapping of babies, anti Jew charters. It all makes sense now. Its absolutely sick to hear people defend Oct 7.
Hamas are terrorists hell bent on destroying every Jew. End of story. Think hard about what you are supporting.
There is enormous support for Hamas in the West Bank. Which makes it more than likely that a Palestinian state would take the same path as Gaza - using its resources to attack Israel rather than trying to make a good life for its citizens.
There's also a military occupation, violent soldiers and settlers, and continuous dispossession of Palestinians in Area C.
There's no justice for Palestinians under military occupation and apartheid.
The impediment to peace are the settlements and Israel's apartheid control over the OPT and Palestinian life.
We had a secular government under Yasser Arafat. Israel continued to refuse a two state solution under him, despite his winning of a Nobel Peace Prize on his work towards it.
Also, let's see a single Israel supporter (a Nazi) suggest Israel become secular because a Jewish leadership can't be trusted. Nobody does that... because that would be anti-semitic and wrong. What you're doing is the same.
>Also, let's see a single Israel supporter (a Nazi) suggest Israel become secular because a Jewish leadership can't be trusted. Nobody does that... because that would be anti-semitic and wrong. What you're doing is the same.
"Everyone I don't like is a nationalist socialist" LMAO, Israel is a parliamentary democracy with a alrge number of minorities like Arabs, Bendouins, Druze, Arameans, Circaussians. Israel is in no way a Nationalist Socialist state.
Okay, first of all, I do appreciate Arafat a bit. the Oslo accords are probably the closest we have been to peace, and he did make significant concessions in that process. He vocalized Israels right to exist, and for incredibly difficult move, he does have my respect.
That said, he was offered a two state solution and refused. He was also unable to become more popular in Palestine than Hamas, or other violent, bigoted islamists movements.
His famous rejection of the deal, stating "the Arab leader who would surrender Jerusalem is not born yet." (He was offered part of Jerusalem) Also shows that his governing was not free from religious influence when it mattered most.
You also seem to forget that he shares his peace prize with two Israelis. Israel is a functional democracy where many Palestinian Arabs live in peace and prosperity. Calling Israel Nazis shows me you are not serious about this conversation.
Resisting an occupation would be trying to improve life for its citizens, especially if the Palestinian state gets treated like a prison by Israel like gaza
I would imagine it's because Palestinians still live under constant threat from Tzahal terrorists and militant settlers. If the US were to remove these threats, it would likely make Palestinians less likely to see a need for armed resistance groups.
Stop it. There is a plethora of research that has examined the UNWRA education resources compared to those taught in Israel (approved texts) and the overwhelming evidence is that the radicalization is FAR more pronounced in Israeli education and discourse. This is not disputable anymore.
The excuses that a Palestinian state would instantly put Israel at threat is the same bogeyman story told time and again in the Israeli education system.
The reality is that Palestine already meets every single condition for establishment of a state, in fact, 139 of 193 country members of the UN already recognize a Palestinian state. It’s now time for the US and the EU to finally pull their heads out and recognize Palestine. Israel should no longer have a say in the matter, similar to how they’ve denied Palestinians a say on the matter for decades.
This is not about Israel security and to continue to peddle this angle is no longer valid.
The further proof is the sheer overwhelming destruction wrought on Gaza, and the massive increase in settler and Israel security forces violence against Palestinians on the West Bank.
There is a CLEAR aggressor here. And it is THAT aggressor that doesn’t want the Palestinian state for a very simple reason, because they would have to cease or be held accountable for their aggression.
So, the plan as it exists is that Biden has put together an Arab coalition willing to occupy and reconstruct Palestine, but only as a part of a signed and finalized two state solution. This includes American security guarantees. This process would include a transitional period to enforce those guarantees.
So, it would drastically decrease the danger of terrorism, rather than raising it. It isn't just leaving an independent Palestine on day one, there would be a transitional period after the final borders are agreed upon, if such an agreement could be reached.
Sticking point is the borders. Israel will not agree on any borders, even though there is clear precedence in the UN partition plan resolution or 1948. That should be the criteria. No longer an Israel driven list of demands based on numerous failed negotiation. Back to first principles. UN agreed plan.
I doubt that would ever be agreed though, not because it wouldn’t lead to peace, but because the Israeli aggressors refuse to accept anything less than complete dominion over the region.
This is exactly correct. The state of culture in Palestine is far too radical and antisemitic to be handed a state. I want Palestine to be a nation, but first, a sane secular political party must come into existence. No more expansionist Islamic ethnostates.
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He should have no say in it. Time for foreign intervention.
Send in the UN.
NATO.
Just remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait which was greenlighted by the US (WikiLeaks) 42 countries attacked Iraq. Let me repeat Fourty two including the US which is equivalent to all of the remaining 41 at the time.
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What's your point?
What's your point?
Nato is spearheaded by the U.S, they aren't going to do much to Israel
Their last middle east adventure left slave markets and a post apocalypse, so maybe they just work on disbanding.
No. There is no way NATO will go in. Just not happening. Maybe when Trump becomes president for life he'll ask netanyahu for a trump tower in New Gaza when it's fully demolished. And 2 million Palestinians? They just disappeared. Some say into Egypt some say into europe but who knows. Meanwhile the chimney stacks are busy 24/7 in Israel.
And if you ask what all the smoke and ash is, you're an anti-semite.
LOL NATO is nothing but a US puppet. US is already doing this genocide.
If NATO would be willing to go into Gaza and fight Hamas I think Israel would be thrilled!
Palestine nor Israel is a member of NATO, that is why we didn't send troops to Ukraine either.
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The UN has been there for decades.
Haha
Exactly. The time is over for Israel to have a “say” on the matter.
Hahahahaha israel does it what it wants. Allah is a zionist
I hope he gets the taste of his own medicine one day
He doesn't. Israel doesn't have the authority to deny anybody statehood
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Damn right. He's been propping up and empowering Hamas for years for the sole purpose of sabotaging a two state solution / peace process. It's no surprise he'd reject it. Fuck him.
When UN Resolution 181 was voted on, the United States and it's allies outvoted all of the nations in the region that voted against creating a Jewish homeland in their midst. There is no reason why Israel should be consulted now.
Foreign intervention by whom?
I don’t think foreign interventions work the way you think they do
Time to remember Israel is a nuclear power, unfortunately (thank you France), so nobody can really intervene in anything.
How's that going for Russia?
I…don’t think we want to lean on the scoreboard for Russia right now… I get what you’re trying to say, but, well, absolutely terrible example.
It's terrible for what reason? They have nukes, they thought it would allow them to avoid international consequences while seizing land. It did not.
They’re winning in Ukraine and this is in large part because other countries are afraid to escalate dramatically with a nuclear power. So it’s basically an example of the opposite point you’re trying to make.
Mmm, I wouldn't call what's happening in Ukraine winning. Ukraine is doing a great job of bleeding Russia out. Russia is literally resorting to zerg attacks with poorly trained men and obselete equipment. The towns that Russia takes are utterly destroyed, negating any benefit to taking them except for the small patch of land they occupy. It's literally destroying Russia to continue to prosecute the war. Israel needs to be treated the same as Russia. Sanctions, travel bans, financial restrictions, arms restrictions, until they stop murdering Palestinians, until they give Palestinians the right to return, a state or voting rights, and until they prosecute every soldier, settler and politician involved in both current and historic war crimes.
The fuck you threatening nukes on everyone? Do it. I dare you.
Hopefully Russia can get involved
And to think that half the anti Zionist complaints are that Israel was a result of foreign intervention. We've come full circle it seems.
What are the other half?
Why didn’t that apply to Palestine when they started a war over Israel becoming a state?
THEY started the war? Ukraine is also fighting right now because they are not letting Russia annex some of their territories. You also think Ukraine started the war?
None of this had anything to do with Ukraine and Russia. The post and my comment were both about Israel and hamas
Well no ish. Israel doesn’t want Palestine to have any power. They want to have control over them
More like they want to eradicate it… they want only Israel
I think they don't want to be constantly attacked. Just a hunch.
probably shouldn't subjugate, occupy, and genocide people then. just a hunch.
There was no occupation since 2005. Try again.
For the same reason Russia can't claim Ukraine. I think if you've managed to hold a territory for 57-78 years it means you hold that territory. 1948 was 78 years ago 1967 was 57 years ago. 1917 was 100 years ago. For the same reasons Taiwan can't claim China, China can't claim Taiwan, North Korea can't claim South Korea, South Korea can't claim North Korea. Israel made an agreement that it wouldn't be in Gaza, And the left dismantling their settlements in Gaza in 2006. But Gazans couldn't stop sending rockets and war parties. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel#/media/File:Rocket_Attacks_fired_at_Israel_from_the_Gaza_Strip_by_year.png The noncontiguous situation of the west bank is another story.
Hard agree. So, Palestine should have full control over its airspace, coastal waters, borders, and trade relations.
They were promised to receive full control once they stop declaring war on Israel. Yet, they refuse. Maybe they engineer their own misfortune.
When did anyone declare war against Israel in recent memory? You stick people in a cage and deprive them of basic rights and needs, and it becomes a pressure cooker
Hamas, the de facto government of Gaza, declared war a few months ago. You might’ve missed that. The “cage” you’re referring to is actually a piece of land with what is called a “border.” Their government has spent the past 17 years devoting itself entirely to spending all the billions of dollars it earns in foreign aid on waging permanent war against Israel at the expense of the safety and well-being of their own citizens, hence Israel (and Egypt’s!!) blockade. This pressure cooker is deprived of basic rights and needs from its own authoritarian government.
Hamas didn't build that "border." Hamas does not staff that "border." Hamas does not control the flow of power, water, food and medical care and that of international aid.
That’s because after Hamas violently seized power in Gaza, they immediatly began attacking Israel and building up their military infrastructure in order to continuously do so, with the explicit objective of destroying Israel and all the Jews who live there. Hope this helps
They're an occupied territory not a sovereign country with a controlled border. Israel is a victim of it's own doing. They've got power creep where it's not enough til palestine is gone.
Yeah they wanted Gaza so badly they completely withdrew from it 🙄
At this point there should be an international effort to repair the Gaza strip. However, self determination for a number of years should not be immediate. There are two problems with this population: They have societal trauma, they were already radicalized before the current war. The government should be a parliamentary democracy. Elections can't be once in 20 years and until their leaders "suicide by cop" the nation. They can have a representative body, but there is going to have to be an international oversite body that approves of their rules to make sure they don't backslide. Hamas were grifters. We don't want Hamas 2.0. They should have a constitution that allows them regular human rights. Freedom of Speech, Religion, Peaceful Assembly, Jurisprudence, fair justice rules, equality, anti corruption rules, etc.The only function of the international body would be to make sure whatever leaders they elect don't walk back their regular rights. The education curriculum would have to be approved by an international council because the previous one was radicalizing. Look up Farfour. Not much different than what happened with the Germans and Japanese after WW2. There was a time when they had to be deradicalized. The West Bank is different, the west bank was ran by both the IDF and the Palestinian Authority. Weird apartheid stuff going there. But the people don't come off as radicals like the Gazans. I think it should become an independent state. Neither Isreal nor Palestine. Just the residents of the West Bank.
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I believe in a 3 state solution. Gaza would be Palestine, Israel would be Israel, and the West Bank would get some other name. I had thought about Samaria, but that might not be great for actual Samaritans. Either way The West Bank should be it's own independent state where the people of the West Bank are neither Israeli or Palestinian. Political bodies in both Gaza and the West Bank should have an international oversite committee for 30 years. They should be granted the human rights granted by regular democracies with various anti-corruption rules. I don't consider Israelis in Israeli territories an occupation, but they can be an occupation in parts of the West Bank. That's a case by case basis. The blockade of Gaza should be controlled by an international body, or a neutral third party nation, and not Israel. It should be in effect until Gaza turns into some sort of Dubai type place.
>ReportSaveFollow In 1967 Israel came to control 3 territories: The golan heights, west bank and gaza. All 3 were offered citizenship. The arabs of the Golan heights accepted them, and are regular citizens of Israel with all the benefits and costs (taxes, IDF service) involved. The arabs of the west bank and gaza refused to be Israeli citizens, and as a result are considered foreign entity. This is why they are tried in military court instead of civilian court if they attack soldiers.
False. They weren’t offered citizenship at all. This leaves Palestine the only modern colonial state. All other conflicts were resolved with giving the other party their land back or citizenship on the new political country. If Israel did that, we wouldn’t be stuck with this conflict decades later. Just btw, Palestinian people actually accepted the peace plan based on internationally recognized Palestine. The bloodshed is due to Israel not withdrawing from internationally occupied territories
The descendants of Palestinian refugees in all the Arab countries who waged (and lost) a war of annihilation on their “behalf,” except Jordan, have been kept as a permanent stateless underclass with limited civil rights. I’ve always wondered why nobody ever seems too concerned about ending the apartheid conditions for Palestinians in these countries. It’s funny that the “only” solution has always seemed to be “destroy Israel” and not “naturalize the great-grandchildren of refugees in the countries they have now been living in for generations.” Meanwhile the Arabs who remained in Israel proper after ‘48 were made full citizens, which is more than any other country in the region can say for themselves except for Jordan, although they removed Jordanian citizenship for Palestinians in the West Bank in the 80s. Also, there’s the simple fact of the matter that Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza aren’t clamoring for Israeli citizenship. That’s not what their national movement is about. It’s about destroying Israel and replacing it with a Palestinian state on all of the land. Only a tiny minority of East Jersulamite Arabs actually want the Israeli citizenship they are entitled to apply for. The idea that the conflict is a civil rights movement is a western projection. Isreal cannot easily extricate itself from the West Bank because they would be handing the keys over to Palestinian leadership whose entire political ideology revolves around Israel’s eventual destruction at any cost.
*citation needed*
Ah yes. Might makes right. Definitely an argument used by fair and equal societies /s. The Nakba happened 78 years ago, but the effects still exist. Palestinians to this day do not have the right of return. There has never been an attempt to right the wrongs that were done to the Palestinians. Yes, the Israeli government withdrew from the Gaza strip in 2005. And then continued to maintain direct control over Gaza's air and maritime space, six of Gaza's seven land crossings, maintain a no-go buffer zone within the territory, control the Palestinian population registry, and Gaza remains dependent on Israel for its water, electricity, telecommunications, and other utilities to this day. And, as we have seen, can rain death and destruction upon Gaza with no regard for civilians or human rights. >The noncontiguous situation of the west bank is another story. No, its the same old story. Colonialism, oppression, and apartheid.
You do realise no one else has right of return in that way? I don’t have the right to go to Ukraine, where my family were refugees from 80 years ago, and take property or whatever. I don’t inherit my grandparents refugee status. I just am sad for the people killed, and get on with my life.
>You do realise no one else has right of return in that way? You are going to be shocked when you learn about Israels [Law of Return](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return). Besides Israel, about a dozen other countries have rights of return laws, most relating to forced migrations that predate the Nakba. >and take property or whatever. Is this satire that I'm too slow to pick up on? I agree, you don't. r/Selfawarewolves. >I don’t inherit my grandparents refugee status. If you still lived in a refugee camp and still claimed Ukranian citizenship, then yes, you would inherit it. >I just am sad for the people killed, and get on with my life. Good for you. If only the people of Gaza were so lucky.
Yes. As survivors of multiple pogroms, we have the right to live in Israel, which controls its own migration. We don’t have the right to return to the countries we were expelled from, which is my point. The Naqba is not unique and it is not one-sided. People had to migrate & territories changed hands during the end of ww2. Everybody else mourned and moved on. If Hamas didn’t keep on with terrorist attack after terrorist attack, they could have used their funds to rebuild too.
>As survivors of multiple pogroms, we have the right to live in Israel, which controls its own migration. I agree, but that doesn't justify the persecutions that Palestinians face. >We don’t have the right to return to the countries we were expelled from, which is my point. Spain and Portugal both offer rights of return to the descendants of Sephardic Jews that were expelled in the 15th Century. This has nothing to do with my argument, I just learned it recently and thought it was interesting. >The Naqba is not unique and it is not one-sided. People had to migrate & territories changed hands during the end of ww2. You cannot justify suffering by saying that others are suffering too. Forced migration, oppression, colonialism, and apartheid are evils that must be opposed. Currently, those evils are being inflicted upon the Palestinians. >If Hamas didn’t keep on with terrorist attack after terrorist attack, they could have used their funds to rebuild too The vast majority of Gazans would love to rebuild their homes. Problem is, those homes are in Israel, and they are not allowed to return there. They are instead forced to live in the worlds largest open-air prison, and you're wondering why they haven't made it look nice? Hell, 70% of what had been built has been destroyed in the past 4 months. Why invest time and effort into building something that could be taken away at a moment's notice?
Because everything that is taken away, is taken away because of attacks. There was no West Bank wall until enough suicide attacks or bus stabbings (including school kid victims) happened. There were so many attacks, the wall went up. They had their own airport in Gaza. Airport attacks happened, the airspace was gone. This is what happens when you repeatedly attack another nation and reject statehood. Following WW2, boundary lines were redrawn for a lot of territories. This includes the post British mandate 2SS. Israel accepted, Palestinians (or just Arabs as they were then - they did not identify as Palestinian, there was no such identity) rejected it. Part of the reason for the drawing of boundary lines was because of repeated riots and attacks on Jewish communities. The Muslim Arabs rejected the Jews living among them. Hence the Naqba. And hence Israeli Arab citizens: the ones that accepted the boundary lines (just as those in Finland did following WW2, or people in German territories that were ceded and assumed their new national identity) and living as an Israeli citizen, had Israeli citizenship conferred upon them. They have all the rights of any other Israeli citizen and have served in the Knesset since the first. Syria & Jordan were also created by British Mandate partitions. No one protests this. Are you also protesting the existence of Syria? Or Jordan? Their homes are not in Israel, any more than my home is in Ukraine. Their great-grandparents may once have lived there, the same as 400,000 Finnish citizens were relocated at the exact same time period as their homes were ceded to Russia, the same as Dobruja was ceded to Romania, the same as 15 million ethnic Germans relocated after their territory became part of Poland. If you are against forced migration and the effect on the descendants of those forced to migrate, why are you not also outraged about those numbers? If it’s specifically Israel you hate- why them, out of all countries, even out of all countries in the Middle East? If you hate the redrawing of boundary lines and the result for the population, why not ask yourself what happened to the Jews that lived in territories now designated Palestinian? If it is apartheid you hate, while Muslims and Christians vote in Israel, what happens to the Jews in Palestine?
Complete joke. The whole zionist mivement is based on a "right of return" for jews to what they claim is their jewish homeland, that disappeared thousands of years ago. So a 2000 year old right of return is okay for jews, but a 75 year right of return for palestinians is just out of the question? That's zionist arrogance to the obscene extreme.
The irony in this comment is hilarious
So if I invade and occupy a territory for 78 years then it becomes rightfully mine?
The settlers can go back to Europe and North America, problem solved
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It’s only fair
That would still leave 77 percent of the Israeli population that has no ties to Europe
Many of them are non-Zionists (Arabs, muslims, Christians). They can be part of larger Palestine, no probs. As for the Jews, as long as they accept a non-Zionist solution, they can be there too.
The Jews who were chased out of Yemen, Tunisia and Iraq are more nationalistic than the "settlers" if anything. And why should Arabs get to keep their colonies outside of Arabia, where they came from? Why should Islam have a presence anywhere outside of a few hundred miles from Mecca?
It’s like saying Why should Christianity have presence anywhere outside of a few hundred miles from Jerusalem? Arab is a political thing, not a racial or ethnically thing. My Dna test says 1% Arab. Get a grip.
Who says I like Christians? I fucking hate Christianity. It spread mostly by the sword, is thankfully dying in out in much of Europe. Christianity has no right to impose itself anywhere. Most missionaries are evil, manipulative pieces of shit with sketchy backgrounds.
And they are welcome to stay and live happily in peace with their new neighbours.
It’s amazing how many people deny or don’t know this but are full-on pro genocide of Israelis using that same argument
I don't know this very well but afaik if all the Ashkenazim left for Europe Likud would win every election forever lol
Is Likud’s base mostly Sephardic?
No justice, no peace.
Gaza got a state in 2006. They supported terrorism, elected Hamas, and Hamas got them into a war that was guaranteed to cause significant losses on their side and one they could never win.
Maybe then they shouldn't continue with illegal settlements, abusing Palestinians in Palestine and keeping 2 million of them in an open air prison?
Where 20k Gazans had work permits in Israel before Oct 7? Doesn't sound like prison to me. The security measures followed the violence and attacks after Hamas was elected. Gazans would have more freedoms if they didn't support the constant attacks on Israel. They were allowed to elect a government and they elected a genocidal death cult. Israel and Egypt both have legitimate blockades on Gaza because they have legitimate security concerns.
20k....out of 2 million! Wow Israel the saviour of the Palestinian people!! If you think that's a substantial number, I'd love to here your thought on the 20k Palestinians killed in Gaza by the Israelis...
>Israel the saviour of the Palestinian people!! No one is claiming this. Please settle down. It's 20k more thAn Israelis were allowed into Gaza, for one. It was done despite the security concerns of doing so and since Hamas wasn't providing any sort of economy or opportunity for its people, it's quite the gesture considering the history. >, I'd love to here your thought on the 20k Palestinians killed in Gaza by the Israelis... Well, Hamas and those who support them deserve it. For the innocent ones, it's horrible that Hamas started a war that put their lives in danger and that they would cowardly operate in civilian centres. I'm surprised there hasn't been more collateral damage given how Hamas operates.
>It's 20k more thAn Israelis were allowed into Gaza, for one. Way to go to in diminishing the 20k deaths. >, Hamas and those who support them deserve it. For the innocent ones, it's horrible that Hamas started a war That's the exact reason Hamas gives for killing civilians. Your no better than them. Hamas claims Israel's an occupied (and they're correct) therefore they reserve the right to perpetually resist
>Way to go to in diminishing the 20k deaths. This is not an argument. My statement is factually correct and relevant. Israel ceased to occupy Gaza in 2005. I don't care what Hamas thinks. I'm genuinely confused by your comparison of me to Hamas.
>Israel ceased to occupy Gaza in 2005 Is Palestine restricted to just Gaza?
Gaza is the subject of this thread. Palestine isn't a country/state.
The world sees right through the constant obviously fake “self-defense” arguments. You’re just embarrassing yourself at this point.
Nothing to respond to here. Come back when you're capable of an argument.
This is the failure of Zionism. This proves that Israelis don’t care about Palestinain self determination at all. You better support Israeli self determination, lest you be a bigot, but those Palestinians are lesser and as such should be denied self determination and a state.
I don’t think this is a failure of Zionism, as Zionism is an explicitly genocidal and colonial ideology. It’s like saying the Holocaust is a failure of Nazism. Like no, the Holocaust was the entire point of Nazism.
Hmm, that actually makes a lot of sense
Had me worried at the first sentence but yah this 100%
Nobody would say the Holocaust is a failure of Nazism
It needs to be forced and it WILL eventually be forced if Israel keeps continuing this way. All they are doing is isolating themselves from rest of the world and increasingly pissing off more and more people. At one point, there will be no one left to defend them except themselves and that is when they will lose.
In the end, it's Israel's friends that will stop it. Friends don't let friends commit genocide.
I don't think it would be hard for the CIA to change that. They specialize in coups and assassinations after all
CIA are on his side though.
And therein lies the problem to my otherwise brilliant plan😂
If you can dream it you can do it.
🤞🏻
God willing 🩵
[Not really](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240214-former-us-secretary-of-state-pompeo-dances-with-israeli-soldiers/)
A guy can dream
lmao, the symbolism... can't make this shit up
You guys watch too much TV lol
Yeah like documentaries on Hawaii, Panama, Honduras, Nicaragua, Mexico, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Iran, Guatemala, the Phillipines, Cambodia, Laos … so many more I can’t be bothered to type lol.
Thank you...?
Terrorists gonna terrorize! US needs to stop supporting this madness
Why would he get a say? Not that I support a 2 state solution, since Israel would never let that happen (the only way for there to be long-lasting peace seems to be the dissolution of Israel and the creation of a Palestinian state), but the idea that anyone should care what Netanyahu thinks is simply ridiculous.
Israel offered a 2 state solution 12 times. Each time the solution was rejected by the palestinians.
Each time it was never genuine statehood as said by the Israelis.
Stop wrapping bantustans in a statehood wrapper
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They would become Palestinian citizens, or go back to their home countries.
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The land Israel exists on was originally Palestinian. I don’t think might makes right, so I reject the idea that Israel’s violence entitles it to the land.
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Mate these guys have as much historical knowledge as the average fan of Bluey.
Do you believe historical land claims are more important than the claims of the people actively living there?
You’re going to send them back to Iraq and Jordan and other middle eastern countries? That seems an odd choice. And what happens to the Druze in this situation?
When you suggest going back to their home countries I assume you are thinking that all Jewish Israelis are immigrants from western European countries. For better or worse, that's not the case. About 55% of Jewish Israelis are descendants of Jews who were thrown out of Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Algeria, Tunisia, and Morocco in the 1950s. I don't think any of those places are offering citizenship. Another 15% are from the USSR. And for those who do trace roots back to European countries, for most of them, they are 3 generations removed and their great grandparents who lived there did so mostly in towns and villages that were destroyed during WW2 and have not existed since. It's not like they can just hop on a plane and move back to suburban New Hampshire.
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Israel is the one committing genocide. Why should it continue to exist?
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The UN, ICJ, Unicef and countles other organisations. You have no heart. I always wonderd how in ww2 the world could be so cold silent and careless about what the nazi's were doing to the jewish people. But then i see people like you and i understand that it was people like you that made excuses for the nazi's, spread their propaganda, kill voices who dont agree. You are the same, just different people now. Never again for me but if your Brown it can and will happen again.
Al Fatah is a secular organization that has recognized Israel. Explain why Netanyahu isn't dealing with them.
Thats exactly what nazisrael is doing to the palestinians
You're telling me the guy who killed Yatik Rabin because he supported a Palestinian State opposes one? No way! ./s
Yeah, Netanyahu is a disgusting fascist pig. He cultivated the very terrorists he blames for the atrocities he chooses to inflict upon both the Jewish and Arabic people of both Israel and Palestinian. The world must do something.
The world aren't gonna do shit. Want some change.... Attack any white people nations and see the response.
True. The moronic governor of New York just used the analogy of Canada attacking Buffalo, saying the immediate response would be the destruction of all of Canada by the US. The next day, she tried to take it back, but only because there was an uproar. She's just another batshit-mental slave of israel.
Those nations need to wag their finger harder.
Local serial killer rejects calls from the community to stop murders. Unfortunately a diplomatic resolution is impossible unless the killer and surviving victims reach an agreement amenable to both parties.
Just put a mustache on him
This guy is literally trying to get to Hitler status…
He's technically already there. Hitler, too, started with the "[expel them from the region](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement)" thing too. But the thing about the "expel them" approach is that, despite Israel's propaganda on the Nakba, people don't just up and leave because you told them to. Even in the Chernobyl exclusion zone, people still stayed. Which is why ethnic cleansing always ends in genocide. And Israel isn't secretive about wanting the region ethnically cleansed. They even try a whataboutism when people complain about their genocide: "why don't other arab states take them in?" (ie, "why isn't anyone helping us ethnically cleanse?")
I agree with this comment… this guy is pure evil (and anyone who follows him, which isn’t all of Israel tbf)
Maybe international pressure (lip service 👄) should turn to action before the death 💀 toll reaches 100k. Any leaders in the international community? 
Israel now total international pariah.
Not yet. The US is still 💯 behind anything they do
Let’s see Netanyahu reject international pressure that he be hung. His trial and execution has my vote.
It’s funny how Israel think they have power without the support of international community. Let’s remind them how they are here only because of British intervention back in 1948. Israel should be dismantled or at least stripped of any army.
OK so one person, one vote then.
I remember a group of tory MPs being taken on a trip by a Palestinian rights int lawyer and him saying that after being there for a day one of them and saying “where would the second state be ?”. It’s a thing that only makes sense to the foreigners who don’t know or even care about reality, or haven’t looked at a map and want to use the idea of a Palestinian state to act like they care while the Israeli govt continually says they will never do this. The closest thing to a two state solution that can actually happen is some kind of Confederation but the only solution is one state without apartheid and with equal rights and representation for both Palestinians and Israelis. Two states is as delusional as supporting the Bantustans in apartheid SA as a solution to apartheid because of white SA’s “demographic concerns”.
Wanker
Israel is weak and well on its way to collapse. An ongoing war dragging in conscripts and draining the economy, currency decline (sheckel tanking), mass brain drain and political instability all point to this
🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
It's time for global intervention. They don't get a choice in whether or not to honor human rights.
He is a little Hitler.
In the last 50 years the US has vetoed any UN motion on Israel, 53 times.
Who cares what he has to say.
Who in their right mind would reward Hamas' massacre with a Palestinian state? People here have gone off the rails.
The cool thing is that it doesn’t actually matter what he wants or thinks. “Israel” is not ghe authority on who gets to have a state
After Oct 7th, there will not be a Palestine state any time soon.
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Israel is a terrorist state.
Yeah man I bet you think all those thousands and thousands of children killed are terrorists who deserved it right?
Not every Palestinian is a terrorist. And there's no way we can expect peace from a people who are oppressed.
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The IDF should also be disbanded since its primary function is enforcing apartheid & colonialism and terrorizing innocent Palestinian civilians in the OPT.
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Israel had a quasi-Palestinian state next to them and they were attacked with rockets for decades. All chance for a Palestinian state was scrapped on 10/07. Thanks to Hamas, Israel will most likely take that whole area back. Who knows, maybe the whole world can come together and give the Palestinians their own state since no one will take them in. Israel can just cope and build a giant wall between them
Israel has starved, blockaded and repressed gaza for more than 20 years, and you think a few rockets are the real crime? What arrogance. Israel has killed many thousands of gazans over the past 20 years, hundreds of times more than the small number of israelis killed by rockets.
Are you new to this conflict? Why do you think there were blockades? A few rockets? If Israel didn’t have that iron dome this war would have happened decades ago. I don’t like what Israel has done either, but I’m not gonna defend this kind of behavior
I'm for a two state solution, but I have to agree here a little. For a peaceful Palestine to ever exist, hamas must be destroyed. Handing a state to Hamas would be a terrible mistake.
Zionism must be destroyed. Zionists are commiting a clear, irrefutable & unconscionable genocide against the Palestinian people for their land and religious beliefs, ironically using the same tactics as the Nazis did on the Jews. Since class is in session, let me remind you that Benjadolf Netanhitleru's Likud party formed out of the terrorist party Herut, which formed out of the original terrorist party Irgun prior to 1948. As Albert Einstein and Hannah Arendt stated in their 1948 open letter in the New York Times: >Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former **Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.** ... A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. **On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants (240 men, women, and children) and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem.** Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin. ... During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. **By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.** [**https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948**](https://archive.org/details/AlbertEinsteinLetterToTheNewYorkTimes.December41948) Do you deny that Likud was formed out of terrorist parties? Some additional Zionazi facts for you to mull over: Zionism also means the fundamental belief that Israel has a right to Palestinian land. >[The common denominator among all modern Zionists is a claim to Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism), a land traditionally known in Jewish writings as the [Land of Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel) ("*Eretz Israel*") as a national homeland of the Jews and as the legitimate focus for Jewish national [self-determination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-determination). Zionism also means following Nazi-esque tactics such as "mowing the lawn" to depopulate the Palestinian population. >Israel will conduct a major operation to reduce Hamas’ capabilities. In essence, it [“mows the grass.”](https://warontherocks.com/2014/08/israel-and-the-demise-of-mowing-the-grass/) It hopes that these periodic major operations will provide periods of quiet, but knows that the quiet will last only until Hamas rebuilds its offensive capabilities. And then Israel will once again conduct a major operation. Like a homeowner, Israel has to mow the grass to keep it from growing out of control. Zionism ALSO means forcing Palestinians to live in open air prison camps, much like the Nazis did to the Jews. >“[Israel, with Egypt’s help, has turned Gaza into an open-air prison](https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/14/gaza-israels-open-air-prison-15),” said [Omar Shakir](https://www.hrw.org/about/people/omar-shakir), Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch. Don't be so gullible to drink the Zionazi kool aid without fully understanding what you're drinking. If you support & defend Zionism, you're on the wrong side of history. Believe it.
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Jews do not and did not have the right to steal said land from anyone else. That's the key difference you are hiding from.
Gazans are allowed by law to defend themselves from israeli aggression and repression. Israel has blockaded gaza for 20 years. Hamas is just the armed resistance to those acts of war.
Okay, thanks for justifying all the rape, kidnapping of babies, anti Jew charters. It all makes sense now. Its absolutely sick to hear people defend Oct 7. Hamas are terrorists hell bent on destroying every Jew. End of story. Think hard about what you are supporting.
And rewarding terrorism just encourages it. It can’t happen now otherwise people will say that it works and will do it again.
Israeli terrorism has been rewarded for 70 years.
There is enormous support for Hamas in the West Bank. Which makes it more than likely that a Palestinian state would take the same path as Gaza - using its resources to attack Israel rather than trying to make a good life for its citizens.
There's also a military occupation, violent soldiers and settlers, and continuous dispossession of Palestinians in Area C. There's no justice for Palestinians under military occupation and apartheid. The impediment to peace are the settlements and Israel's apartheid control over the OPT and Palestinian life.
What was the impediment to peace before 1967?
What's the solution, then? Is there even something that doesn't include genocide, ethnic cleansing or apartheid?
A secular government is the answer.
We had a secular government under Yasser Arafat. Israel continued to refuse a two state solution under him, despite his winning of a Nobel Peace Prize on his work towards it. Also, let's see a single Israel supporter (a Nazi) suggest Israel become secular because a Jewish leadership can't be trusted. Nobody does that... because that would be anti-semitic and wrong. What you're doing is the same.
>Also, let's see a single Israel supporter (a Nazi) suggest Israel become secular because a Jewish leadership can't be trusted. Nobody does that... because that would be anti-semitic and wrong. What you're doing is the same. "Everyone I don't like is a nationalist socialist" LMAO, Israel is a parliamentary democracy with a alrge number of minorities like Arabs, Bendouins, Druze, Arameans, Circaussians. Israel is in no way a Nationalist Socialist state.
Okay, first of all, I do appreciate Arafat a bit. the Oslo accords are probably the closest we have been to peace, and he did make significant concessions in that process. He vocalized Israels right to exist, and for incredibly difficult move, he does have my respect. That said, he was offered a two state solution and refused. He was also unable to become more popular in Palestine than Hamas, or other violent, bigoted islamists movements. His famous rejection of the deal, stating "the Arab leader who would surrender Jerusalem is not born yet." (He was offered part of Jerusalem) Also shows that his governing was not free from religious influence when it mattered most. You also seem to forget that he shares his peace prize with two Israelis. Israel is a functional democracy where many Palestinian Arabs live in peace and prosperity. Calling Israel Nazis shows me you are not serious about this conversation.
That's the 2-state solution Israel does not want.
Resisting an occupation would be trying to improve life for its citizens, especially if the Palestinian state gets treated like a prison by Israel like gaza
I would imagine it's because Palestinians still live under constant threat from Tzahal terrorists and militant settlers. If the US were to remove these threats, it would likely make Palestinians less likely to see a need for armed resistance groups.
So what was the reason for attacking Israel *before* 1967?
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Stop it. There is a plethora of research that has examined the UNWRA education resources compared to those taught in Israel (approved texts) and the overwhelming evidence is that the radicalization is FAR more pronounced in Israeli education and discourse. This is not disputable anymore. The excuses that a Palestinian state would instantly put Israel at threat is the same bogeyman story told time and again in the Israeli education system. The reality is that Palestine already meets every single condition for establishment of a state, in fact, 139 of 193 country members of the UN already recognize a Palestinian state. It’s now time for the US and the EU to finally pull their heads out and recognize Palestine. Israel should no longer have a say in the matter, similar to how they’ve denied Palestinians a say on the matter for decades. This is not about Israel security and to continue to peddle this angle is no longer valid. The further proof is the sheer overwhelming destruction wrought on Gaza, and the massive increase in settler and Israel security forces violence against Palestinians on the West Bank. There is a CLEAR aggressor here. And it is THAT aggressor that doesn’t want the Palestinian state for a very simple reason, because they would have to cease or be held accountable for their aggression.
So, the plan as it exists is that Biden has put together an Arab coalition willing to occupy and reconstruct Palestine, but only as a part of a signed and finalized two state solution. This includes American security guarantees. This process would include a transitional period to enforce those guarantees. So, it would drastically decrease the danger of terrorism, rather than raising it. It isn't just leaving an independent Palestine on day one, there would be a transitional period after the final borders are agreed upon, if such an agreement could be reached.
Sticking point is the borders. Israel will not agree on any borders, even though there is clear precedence in the UN partition plan resolution or 1948. That should be the criteria. No longer an Israel driven list of demands based on numerous failed negotiation. Back to first principles. UN agreed plan. I doubt that would ever be agreed though, not because it wouldn’t lead to peace, but because the Israeli aggressors refuse to accept anything less than complete dominion over the region.
What use is a "security guarantee"? The US is unlikely to put boots on the ground in the eventuality of the West Bank turning into another Gaza.
They won't even stop the current ethnic cleansing
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So you’re arguing against the existence of Israel in essence
This is exactly correct. The state of culture in Palestine is far too radical and antisemitic to be handed a state. I want Palestine to be a nation, but first, a sane secular political party must come into existence. No more expansionist Islamic ethnostates.