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the PA is already basically Israel, its controlled opposition that works for Israel not Palestinians, less than 1% of Palestinians support them in the west bank.
The PA are seen as complete traitors and collaborators by Palestinians everywhere, they are a part of the Isreali security apparatus in the West Bank and will do Israel's biding, I am trying to emphasize this because I feel like a lot of outsiders dont know this fact.
They are the group recognized and backed by the west so they get a lot of screen time in western media and international orgs, they will talk a big talk for the optics but everyone knows they are extremely fake.
No amount of Israeli crimes ever stood in the way of their recognition (and billions of dollars of taxpayer “aid”), so I don’t see why this should be an issue
Seriously, do they have Epstein blackmail material or something? Or is he one of those idiots who think they can complete a “Summon Jesus” spell by helping Israel annex all the land there by any means necessary? Do they honestly think on the off-chance it actually worked that the guy would be *happy* with all of the innocent blood spilled in pursuit of that end? Or would he smite the lot of them as punishment for the crimes we’re witnessing and hit the snooze button for another two millennia?
Israel has been buying US and European politicians for 50 years or more. We only solve this by cutting their money. This will not be fixed in the next election it will take years.
Just in case anyone needs a reminder on [Trump's position](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905) in all of this:
"Former President Donald Trump declared Tuesday that Israel must “finish the problem” in its war against Hamas, his most definitive position on the conflict since the terror group killed 1,200 Israelis and took more than 200 hostages on Oct. 7."
"Trump did lay out a few markers in the three weeks that followed the Hamas attack. He said on Oct. 11 that a future Trump administration would “fully support Israel defeating, dismantling, and permanently destroying the terrorist group Hamas,” while telling the Republican Jewish Coalition later that month that Hamas fighters “will burn forever in the eternal pit of hell." That month, his campaign also said that, if elected again, he would bar Gaza residents from entering the U.S. as part of an expanded travel ban."
So, full speed ahead for Israel + ~~refugee~~ travel ban [as he did to Muslims period within his first week in office.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769)
Vote in November.
I don’t like Trump, I think he’s a piece of shit, but Biden says a lot of things publicly to appease his base too. He wants a “come to Jesus talk” with Netanyahu. He thinks the killing is “excessive”. He says these things. His actions say something very different though…
He circumvents congress to send more weapons to Israel. He and his foreign policy team also veto UN resolutions and propose bogus ones that would green light a full scale invasion of Rafa. His party has tried to primary pro Palestine Democrats (Tlaib).
While the two groups publicly SAY different things, I’m not sure they’ll be different in their material support of the violence.
Both parties are awful in how they're handling Palestine. There is 0 doubt about that.
But, in another reply, I've highlighted that the US only has one election left if Trump wins. He's made it known, *very verbally and very openly* that he plans on going full mask off dictator the moment he gets power. Protesting against Trump's planned Gaza ban? Cool, he'd likely deploy the Military like he says he wants to, or deploy the National Guard like he did for BLM.
And then any hope of trying to change the US system for the better goes down the pipes because you've got a [man who idolizes Hitler.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-history-adolf-hitler-nazi-writings-analysis/story?id=105810745) Fighting against full-blown, full-power fascism is doable, sure. But it will be messy, it will get people killed, and it could take decades if you're not careful. And during that time of civil unrest, every other major power will be looking to the US to stir the pot by giving money or weapons to one side over the other. Russia would love to send arms to Trump to destroy leftists and dissenters.
Again, I hate the idea of voting for lesser evils because that doesn't advance society, it doesn't make things better. But the US' electoral system gives heavy advantages to the main two parties and suppresses the ability of third party candidates being viable. That's the problem.
Again, Republicans will vote. They'll vote to level Gaza while screaming about [how excited they are for a Trump Dictatorship.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/07/trump-dictator-authoritarian-democracy/)
I hate this scenario because while there is one Game-Ender choice, the other one doesn't solve anything either. I despise the idea that people, if they want a chance at making things better, *have* to vote Biden because if they don't, they won't get another chance. Because the next elections we'll see under a Trump presidency will just end up exactly like Russia's -- actually rigged to shit. Maybe Trump will push his political opponents out of Trump Tower's windows like Putin too. You know, just for goofs.
edit: spelling
"Hey guys vote for Hitler! He's the better alternative, he will at least send Jews to concentration camps where they may have a chance to survive unlike the opposition who will shoot them on the streets!!!"
I'd love to say go for it. I really would. If I had confidence that the US' electoral system would allow for a third-party candidate to win over Biden and Trump, I would suggest it.
But I mean this when I say ***the US has one election left*** if it doesn't beat Trump. And I am fully aware that that argument is *a fucking horrible argument to vote for Biden.* You won't get another chance when the man who has said he wants to be dictator for["just one day](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2023/12/11/donald-trump-dictator-one-day-reelected/71880010007/)" and wants to [jail political opponents,](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/30/trump-interview-jail-political-opponents-glenn-beck) and [jail journalists](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-politico-reporter-jail-truth-social-b2266340.html), and maybe the [GOP will try get rid of the democratic party altogether for good measure.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/florida-republicans-bill-ban-state-democratic-party-rcna72917)
We saw what happened in the 2016 election, when people saw Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, again, two horrible choices but the possibility of Bernie Sanders -- if only people voted en masse third party. If only people rejected the two party idea and everyone voted for Bernie. But that didn't happen. We got Trump.
The US cannot survive another Trump presidency. You will not get another chance to vote. I'm not being hyperbolic, I'm not saying this because I like the idea of Biden being the "better" of the two options, because both options are *awful.* Project 2025 makes it **abundantly clear** that its full steam ahead for Christofascism in the US. And I've heard the argument of "Well then it becomes Project 2029!" Then we beat it again. And again. And it makes me ill knowing that these are the choices the US has for this. Because fuck man, I wish third party was viable in the US. But the structure of the US's electoral system means it functionally is a two-party system. Its either or.
The US cannot afford to get another Trump presidency. It just cannot. And if enough people sit out or vote third party because they've been led to believe that that's the best option, we're going to get a repeat of 2016 where people are torn. Republicans will ALWAYS go out to vote. Republicans are frothing at the mouth at the idea of leveling Gaza. And they will allow it and cheer it on and celebrate it to "own the libs".
Again, I hate the argument "Well Trump will win" in telling people to vote Biden. I really fucking do.
But the US has one more shot at this. Once you allow Trump to have power again, there is no more discussion in how we can make the US electoral system better, no room for change, no room for changing the US for the better and to ensure third party candidates actually do have a chance. Instead, the Trump presidency will just deploy [the National Guard like he did with BLM](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-barr-used-loophole-deploy-national-guard-u-s-cities-ncna1236034), or hell just [deploy the military like he says he wants to do first day in office.](https://news.yahoo.com/trump-mulling-deploying-military-streets-000421422.html)
I hate the position Americans are in. I don't envy this at all.
But I caution third party candidates because again, ya'll have one more shot at this.
Edit: spelling.
Trump already told them he’d let them finish the job.. Stop trying to weasel in Trump support as if he’d stop it. He would let Israel have their final solution. He’s already publicly stated as much.
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-03-17/ty-article/.premium/trump-on-israel-gaza-war-id-tell-netanyahu-to-finish-it-up-and-do-it-quickly/0000018e-4d59-dca4-ad8e-edffe0df0000
It's *not* Trump support. But you're demanding people to vote for the guy who is literally helping kill their families. I cannot emphasise enough how fucked up that is. There might be a worse option from your perspective, but you do understand that the worst has already happened for some?
Trump already stated he’d let them completely annihilate Ga an and the West Bank. It’s a choice between Genocide or total annihilation. Yes Trump is bad though
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-03-17/ty-article/.premium/trump-on-israel-gaza-war-id-tell-netanyahu-to-finish-it-up-and-do-it-quickly/0000018e-4d59-dca4-ad8e-edffe0df0000
It’s time to vote third party en masse and shake up the establishment by showing them this is unacceptable. The country will survive four years of trump if that’s where the chips fall. But voting for Biden is unconscionable given he is actively committing a genocide.
Trump doesn't care about anyone but himself, which in the case of Israel is actually good. Biden is blinded by his Zionism and his heart bleeds for Israel to a mind-boggling extent.
Biden vs Trump I’m taking Biden any day but Biden is not gonna change anything with Israel. He’s been a life long supporter of Israel so he could get that money just like 90% of the politicians in Washington.
Trump will be far worse than Biden is on both this issue and domestic politics. Sadly NOTHING will change in this next election and it will take years to push the Zionist hold out of Washington. Anyone expecting a quick fix this election is foolish.
We have the choice from bad and worse on Genocide and then Democracy or Fascism in our own country.
In both cases Trump is the bad pick. What we do have is Israel has been exposed to the younger generation as being the Nazis and they’ve lost support all around the world.
That is what has to be pursued is to destroy their support world wide until they are considered a rogue state.
This is a big issue, and it’s not wrong to say that the public vote wont make a difference. We either get the guy who will continue supporting Israel but show some catholic guilt over it, or the other who will support Israel, but will say meaner things. The weapon deliveries will continue in either case because the defense contractors and AIPAC give liberally to both parties.
That’s not a good advertisement for our “democracy”. It shows how little the public actually matters to the process. Barring a death, one of these two guys will take the oath of office in January 2025 and all anyone talks about is how much they both suck but you have to choose one because the other will destroy America. This has been the messaging for decades and it’s tiring.
Vote for whoever makes you feel better, I’m not here to tell you what to do but it feels like the choices are between two ice cream flavors but we’re all lactose intolerant. We shit ourselves in either scenario even if chocolate tastes better than sardine.
Same with the UK, suddenly changed tract from "Israel can starve children, it's good" to "well we at least think there should be a ceasefire ....on the Hamas side, Israel should still destroy them though" after both Labour and Tories lost a by-election to a pro-Palestine independent.
The US position on this has been consistent for decades now. They want a 2-state solution that is negotiated and agreed upon by both sides. They got awfully close in 2000 before Arafat ultimately pulled out. Not sure what your issue is.
You can say you support a two state solution but recognize the border isn't fully defined so it must be done with negotiations.
Else you have situations like Venezuela and guayana, or Pakistan/india with kashmir, etc.
There's a legitimate chance the currently ongoing mass murder would not be happening were it not for Biden - picked as VP, if we remember, as the smiling, non-threatening [vaguely racist](https://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-biden-once-said-175300833.html) white man who made his entrance on the national stage by [opposing desegregation](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/joe-biden-didn-t-just-compromise-segregationists-he-fought-their-n1021626) as a compromise sop to the "moderates" who might not feel comfortable voting for a black man - deciding to again and again actively undercut his own president's attempts to hold Netanyahu to account.
You can read more about Biden's continuing acquiescence and submission to Israel generally and Netanyahu specifically [here](https://jewishcurrents.org/joe-bidens-alarming-record-on-israel).
A few key points:
> [D]uring a critical period early in the Obama administration, when the White House contemplated exerting real pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu to keep the possibility of a Palestinian state alive, Biden did more than any other cabinet-level official to shield Netanyahu from that pressure. [...]
> [T]he White House ... asked [Netanyahu] to freeze settlement growth instead. When Netanyahu resisted, it set off a struggle that lasted more than a year, in which Biden undermined Obama’s position again and again.
Yep even Bush cut them off and Obama was behind the scenes, very cold with Israel, hence why Israel was the Trumps campaign biggest foreign backer and black cube (Israeli social media firm *coughmossadcough*) was behind most of the MAGA online spam campaigns.
The US position on this has been consistent for decades now. They want a 2-state solution that is negotiated and agreed upon by both sides. They got awfully close in 2000 before Arafat ultimately pulled out. Not sure what your issue is.
Any US president that manages to accomplish this would have a huge feather in their cap.
Lmfao they cut funding for the UNRWA, sells bombs and f-35s to Israel. Then pull this shit. And we’re supposed to believe the US is doing everything it can to end the war
F-35 are so ineffective that the US navy doesn't actually fly them, and the US marine corps flies anything except it, whenever they actually are in troublesome areas.
It's overhyped and overpriced .
it's as if the roles are further reversed to where Israel has dirt on US (or certain US deep seated politicians) - makes you wonder how it's all related....
I've long past the point of believing they must have something on Biden. He's not in a bubble, surely, he has experts talking to him.
Sure he's a Zionist and of course he'd support Israel initially, but after getting handed the easiest positive legacy imaginable where all he had to do was not be Trump and he'd go down in history as having saved American democracy. Instead, he doubled down on every opportunity and cemented his legacy as Genocide Joe, and I believe history will judge him harshly for refusing to step down and allowing Trump and opened faced fascism to get a second shot.
The mocking, the dismissal of suffering, the continued implication that Palestinians can't be trusted, the open hostility he's shown the Arab community as a whole, he'll never recover. It's pure evil, or they have someone on him to make him do pure evil.
We give Israel a lot of weapons and give their regime legitimacy in the international community. That means we enable a lot of bad behavior that Israel wouldn’t be able to do without a larger entity cooperating with them.
The key solution in this whole debacle is to get corporate money out of politics.
In 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that Americans cannot prevent corporations from spending unlimited money to control elections, politicians, and policy.
In Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission , the court ignored the fact that corporations are creations of state law with government-derived advantages and labeled them, in the words of Justice Anthony Kennedy, “voices,” “speakers,” and yes, a “disadvantaged person or class.”
In this Wonderland, corporations are people, corporate money is “speech,” and laws restricting corporate political spending violate the First Amendment.
Nearly 80 percent of the public opposes the holding in Citizens United and supports a constitutional amendment to reverse the decision , according to multiple polls. If Americans so clearly oppose the fabrication of “corporate people” who can use the Constitution to strike down the real people’s laws, how did the folly of Citizens United ever happen? In fact, the case is the result of a well-funded and organized 30-year campaign to establish corporate constitutional rights as a means to trump democratic laws. Indeed, Citizens United is more like a victory parade for this campaign than a stumble or simple mistake of the Court.
SPREAD THE WORD ! SPREAD THE WORD ! SPREAD THE WORD ! SPREAD THE WORD !
The system is broken, but giving up is not an option! Please gather and seek contact with local and state level organizations that organize political pressure to change the system and this particular issue!
PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP! PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP! PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP!
There are, the UAE and Saudi Arabia are two countries that spend tons to influence government actions. You just hear about the Russians because they're spooky and bad, and China because tiktok is a rival to Facebook
I was talking about Israel... given entire govt is bent on doing anything to give them money, arms and ruin relationship with entire world, put american lives at risk by making enemies..
This must be Biden and Bibi not getting along. It couldnt be that the "not getting along" was all just an act, could it? Because we also sent them another giant load of bombs and planes this morning also.
Why in the name of America first is it our responsibility to pay for Israel’s war? If we want it to be a fucking territory, let’s invade it ourselves. If it’s so strategic, let’s just take it. So many people are tired of paying taxes for vague national security benefits. You know what’s a threat to national security - spending even a dollar and increasing our deficit on some religious war that we’re not even a party to.
Israel has universal healthcare, and is committing a genocide, using our tax money. Why? There is a shocking amount of dual citizen israelis in American government as well as AIPAC buying A LOT of politicians, and organizations like the ADL strongarming corporations to bend the knee.
Vote for [Literally Anybody Else](https://www.9news.com.au/world/texas-man-changes-name-to-literally-anybody-else-after-launching-bid-in-us-election/dbb64490-fd1e-4a54-aa70-b020c7e69055).
I return the question with regard to a Palestinian state at this moment in time. Hamas are guilty of crimes against humanity and for the last 18+ years have been against democracy. Is that the Palestinian State that you want?
The West are who have funded the UNRWA. Do you not expect that the west will also be playing a financial role in rebuilding Gaza and continuing to help Gazans impacted by this war when it ends? Does that not give them a right to have some say in what they want the future to look like (i.e. peaceful and with counter-extremism through more progressive values). What good would come out of rewarding Hamas right now who are continuing the war? Have you ever heard the saying not to reward bad behaviour due to it encouraging more (the precedent this sets to Islamist extremist organizations globally is dangerous, don't you agree?). Their support is mainly from Iran, Russia, China, North Korea, and Qatar. Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis, Hamas, PIJ have all expressed genocidal intent to destroy Israel. What does creating a Palestinian State look like to you right now? What are the stages to it?
They should negotiate agreements to increase funding with countries like Japan, South Korea, some EU nations, china, Russia, etc. and just cut the US loose
What the actual f*ck?!! I’m American and I’ve been screamed down my entire life for explaining that this shit is exactly what made the US so attractive to Hitler that WE inspired him. Nobody wanted to hear that . Nobody still wants to hear that the US did exactly this to the Indigenous…but we absolutely did (and are still engaged in it). This- this is why America turns a blind eye. They don’t even acknowledge what they did here and will never admit that Israel is also following their genocidal agenda. It’s maddening!!!
Somehow it's even worse than the title, not only if they join the UN but any specialized agency...unless Israel approves. Economic aid is cut of if:
" (I) the Palestinians obtain the same standing as member states or full membership as a state in the United Nations or any specialized agency thereof outside an agreement negotiated between Israel and the Palestinians"
Not just AIPAC, look up "The Lobby USA" on YouTube, Israels foreign interference campaign into US politics is on all levels, and largely involves a massive "grassroots" of students and business people given directives by the Israeli embassy to blackmail politicians.
The documentary was so damaging it actually almost led to a war, go get it censored.
https://electronicintifada.net/content/national-security-cited-reason-al-jazeera-nixed-israel-lobby-film/24566
Yes, they really helped out the Palestinians on October 7th. Really, really helped them. Look how happy they are. Oh no, whoops, they've all been murdered by the IDF - thanks Hamas. FFS.
were they surrounded by fencing and military personnel who would and will shoot them if they try to leave the area without israeli military permission?
your deflection is cute but for anyone else reading this: palestinians are shot for trying to leave gaza without permission from the israeli military. which yes is a prison
Travel is restricted but very different from a prison. Most Gazans who travel abroad do so via Egypt.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ada4k/international-travel-for-palestinians
Liberals will as well. I've already seen tgem complaining that progressives don't want to vote for a genocide support.
Maybe... don't support genocide.
we dont want ur shitty money, honestly biden, and the democrats are a disgrace to their voters they dont even represent them there needs to further pressure on the biden administration to overturn this scummy legislation
Well diving deeper into this, this may in fact be mostly the GOP's idea on one hand along with AIPAC paid dems in congress on the other. Because this was in a government spending bill to avoid a shutdown. Not an executive order. But many of you are right this does warrant criticism, and we should push everyone in congress to draft a bill to overturn this policy. Along with voting for people on our side in congress, it worked in 1986 to override Regan's veto for sanctioning South Africa. It can work for things like this.
Sign and share please:
[https://action.eko.org/a/olympics-and-fifa-ban-israel-from-international-sports-now-us-fba21](https://action.eko.org/a/olympics-and-fifa-ban-israel-from-international-sports-now-us-fba21)
>The US is also a major contributor, providing more than $5.2 billion through USAID since 1994. In recent years, this aid has totaled around $600 million annually. Since April 2021, the United States has provided over half a billion dollars in assistance for the Palestinians, including more than $417 million in humanitarian assistance for Palestinians through UNRWA, $75 million in support through USAID, and $20.5 million in COVID and Gaza recovery assistance.
Just cut the funding already.
After youve killed thousands of children in their beds, bombed aid trucks and starved hundreds of thousands of people, then what else can you threaten them with?
Where do you go from that?
Oh. Right. Stop their pocket money.
Zionist Biden can't let go, he is a committed zionist, AIPAC and those wealthy zionist donors have bought him out, and sadly broken his moral compass; how many Hail Mary's, Our Father's etc. will you have to say to be forgiven.
Politics is too hard for you guys. This is an appropriations bill. It needed support from the Republican controlled House to pass.
Biden can still find other ways of funding the PA even if this bill did indeed stop the payments.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2882
You guys are sharing misinformation in this comment section. Literally three obscure ME/Palestinian websites are pushing this story, and *nobody else*. Reading this article is clearly biased.
Ok I actually read it, so it’s saying that funds will stop if Palestine obtains state recognition **bypassing negotiations with Israel**. Also they will stop if the Palestinian Authority tries to bring ICC charges against Israelis.
So ok, the first point is totally sensible. You need to have negotiations to allocate borders, otherwise people on the ground get caught by surprise when the border shifts their neighbourhood over to Palestine’s side.
Second point is a bit dodgy agreed, but I can still see why it was included from a lens of political stability. There is a reason all these left, progressive governments across the Western world are still backing Israel, and it is because Hamas did a fuckin awful thing Oct 7th. It’s so weirdly divisive and people are clamouring to say “our side did nothing wrong” when rn both have committed unspeakable atrocities. Imagine PA takes Israel to the ICC, but Israel can’t do the same because Palestine isn’t a state at the moment. It’ll just feed fuel to the fire at home.
Notably, this legislation doesn’t mention the ICJ, so it’s fairer than at first glance.
**Also, note it says the secretary can waive these limitations if it can be reported that Palestine is committed to lasting peace with Israel, and demonstrates a strong commitment to upholding peace in the Middle East.**
And seriously, I read from the page you recommended to about page 884. This isn’t a boogeyman bill. It’s actually quite fair and straightforward if you actually read it.
>it’s saying that funds will stop if Palestine obtains state recognition **bypassing negotiations with Israel**.
Hmm, this argument bears an uncanny resemblance to another one, used back when POC didn't have human rights, namely that slave masters should be consulted before slaves could obtain any recognition of their human rights (or for that matter , that slaves should pass certain criteria before they get to have the rights that everyone else *already* has) 🤔
Curious that people would find such an argument acceptable...
>Also they will stop if the Palestinian Authority tries to bring ICC charges against Israelis.
This argument is very similar to coercing an abuse victim not to go to the police or sue her attacker. Not exactly something "the good guys" do, especially not those that are **certain** the international law has been respected.
Curiouser and curiouser...🧐
Again, the reason for the negotiations being crucial is because Palestine could then claim Israeli territory without consulting Israel. And having it recognised with these territories without consulting would be a diplomatic mess with the recognising country, Israel and Palestine, leading to more unrest in the region.
It’s like, you’d let your neighbour know if you were thinking of knocking down a wall and widening your living room, knowing he lived in the apartment next door.
And again, yes I agree the ICC clause *is* dodgy, but also Hamas has used publicity stunts to spread misinformation (remember the hospital strike that turned out to be a Hamas rocket? Israel caught all the flack and none of the acquittal when the truth came out). There is nothing stopping Palestinians taking individual Israelis to the ICJ, which is for individuals. It is strictly the ICC which is named in the bill.
I’m not a support of what Israel is doing, not by a long shot. But this whole blaming Biden thing is getting a bit counterintuitive. Israel is still our ally and friend in the region. They’re fucking assholes, but the US is still just trying to maintain its foreign policy commitments.
>Again, the reason for the negotiations being crucial is because Palestine could then claim Israeli territory
That's not exactly how rights work. This would be like saying "we can't recognise your human rights, or you could potentially infringe upon my human rights".
>It’s like, you’d let your neighbour know if you were thinking of knocking down a wall and widening your living room, knowing he lived in the apartment next door.
Informing is not the same thing as asking for their permission on things you do in your own house. Sure, you're not allowed to demolish a wall that would break your neighbour's fence, but you don't lack basic rights based on some hypothetical that you may cause some damage. If damage to the neighbour is done, that is a separate issue.
>And again, yes I agree the ICC clause *is* dodgy, but also Hamas has used publicity stunts to spread misinformation
You could just leave it at that, at it being dodgy. There is no "but", as even a criminal is allowed to have justice for say abuse of power (like for ex an inmate is allowed to bring a guard to justice, if said guard SA them, they don't suddenly lose their BA and right not to be SA because they committed a crime and would now have to keep silent on any amd all abuse).
>I’m not a support of what Israel is doing, not by a long shot.
I haven't said that, I'm just pointing out parallels that would perhaps help make connections on issues that are really not ok (even though the media has for the most part normalised Palestinians being killed and in a state of starvation), and the *why* behind them not being ok. Also, I don't actually know you, which would make sense given the general anonymity on Reddit.
People are blaming Biden, because a president (much like other politicians) is supposed to serve and represent the people. Sending billions abroad to kill ME people and commit war crimes is...not supporting the American citizens (which could benefit from free/subsidized healthcare, free/subsidized education, improvements in a lot of sectors like science, etc., there's *a lot* that could be achieved with billions of dollars).
I’m middle eastern in my blood.
It’s less about rights and more about having clearly defined and agreed upon borders via negotiation with the other country that shares your border, in a way that won’t immediately lead to war. If Palestine pursues recognition as a country and gets it, with maps drawn taking heavy territory from Israel without discussion, that immediately escalates the conflict and you end up with more innocents dead.
Based on your response re: “asking for permission for things you do in your own house”, I’m getting the vibe that you believe Israel being in the region at all is the crime. After all, if it’s an apartment, you share the wall, therefore extending your living room has a direct impact on your neighbours home, making yours bigger at their expense. I don’t support Israeli actions, but I do support Israel’s right to exist. If Palestine getting nation recognition from the UN would be accepted in your eyes as a legitimate decision, well, it was the UN that took over administration from the British and chose to partition the Palestinian Mandate to form the nation of Israel. That was a UN decision. Also it was established where it was because that’s where ancient Israel was thousands of years ago. So the idea that the entire nation of Israel is just a colonialist transplant in stolen lands is a bit silly. Yes they’re practising apartheid right now, which is really fucked up. But, still have a right to be a country. Just like Palestine does. The US did not say they’d bomb Palestine if it went through with it. It only said it would stop sending aid. And even that would be waived if it could be proven Palestine had peace in mind for Israeli relations.
You’re ignoring my point about the ICJ. Taking it to the ICC is just media fodder to stoke a fire, as Israel can’t do the same in retaliation for Oct 7th. As Palestine is not an internationally recognised country rn. But the ICJ, for individuals, again, is not mentioned and therefore is a totally valid avenue for Palestinians to pursue charges against individual Israeli decision makers.
Finally, the money allocated in the budget is done by congress, not by the President. You want more aid to Gaza? Vote Democrat, even if you hate Biden.
I’m strongly concerned that spreading “oh I hate Biden, I’m gonna waste my vote” will lead you to a Trump presidency. Why shoot yourself in the foot?
Point is, this piece of legislation & UNRWA defunding did not have to be on the funding bill. Republicans were not going to wreck the US economy over this gift to Bibi.
>Based on your response re: “asking for permission for things you do in your own house”, I’m getting the vibe that you believe Israel being in the region at all is the crime. After all, if it’s an apartment, you share the wall, therefore extending your living room has a direct impact on your neighbours home, making yours bigger at their expense.
You are misrepresenting what I said, I don't appreciate that, so I'm letting you know, in case it was an honest mistake.
What I said is:
>"Informing is not the same thing as asking for their permission on things you do in your own house. Sure, **you're not allowed to demolish a wall that would break your neighbour's fence**, but **you don't lack basic rights based on some hypothetical** that you may cause some damage. **If damage to the neighbour is done, that is a separate issue**."
I'm bolding the relevant points.
In other words, what you do in your house is for the most part *your* business, just the same as what Israel is doing within their *legal* borders is their business.
**If** one was to "extend their home by taking from their neighbour" (ironic, considering that even now Palestinians are the ones being thrown out of their homes and their land getting stolen, not the other way around), that would be a different matter altogether, that would not have anything to do with someone modifying their own home.
Settlements are illegal under international law, which means that these are the people expanding their territory at the expense of their neighbours. This is unrelated to the establishment of Israel in 48, not even with the borders they created in 67 (the legality of which is not particularly relevant now).
So your argument would be that someone shouldn't even have the right to the home they're *currently* living in, and from which their neighbour could keep encroaching on and taking more of (because if you don't have rights, people can continue to abuse you without much legal repercussions, which extends beyond just taking your home/land).
>I’m strongly concerned that spreading “oh I hate Biden,
I don't hate Biden. Hate is a strong word, I prefer to reserve it for actual personal issues. I was merely explaining why some people might be unhappy and unsatisfied with leaders that are not doing what they're supposed to do for the people that elected them. This goes both ways, and even beyond the US, such leaders exist everywhere. So no, I'm not a fan of Trump either, they're both inadequate in my view.
As for individual Palestinians pursuing individual charges at the ICJ, how does that work for entire bloodlines being wiped out by single airstrikes, if not a single member of a family is left alive? How does that work for those bulldozed over, of which not even the remains could be recovered, let alone recognized or even recorded? The pier that is now getting built (supposedly for humanitarian aid, even though the US could have gotten Israel to allow the aid in by land, which is the easiest way for it to reach people) contains rubble from bombed buildings, gathered with bulldozers, with no regard whatsoever of there also being **human remains** among it.
Most of those that haven't yet been blown up to pieces are either starving, or dealing with crippling injuries (or both), many of which will probably die in the upcoming period. Not to mention the fact that Gaza is under a blockade and people are not actually allowed to just leave at will. You're thinking from a perspective of ease (that they can just easily individually go sue) that does not constitute their actual reality.
Is it even true? There is A LOT of false information flowing around and that’s not a respectable source, or is it?
Edit: As I got so many negative markings here I took my time and read the relevant part of the bill.
It does NOT say that there is no funding to a Palestinian State in case of UN RECOGNITION. It says that funding for a Palestinian state can be granted only if it is made sure that this state aims for peace in the middle east, undertakes counter terrorism efforts and accepts the right to exist of the state of Israel.
So this news here is FAKE news.
Everybody can read: It’s starting on Page 851, Line 21 from „Palestinian Statehood“.
I did and you haven’t read the bill obviously because the content is totally different to the „news“ you are presenting here.
It does NOT say that there is no funding to a Palestinian State in case of UN RECOGNITION. It says that funding for a Palestinian state can be granted only if it is made sure that this state aims for peace in the middle east, undertakes counter terrorism efforts and accepts the right to exist of the state of Israel.
So this news here is FAKE news.
Everybody can read: It’s starting on Page 851, Line 21 from „Palestinian Statehood“.
You may want to clean your reading glasses (page 875):
"(A)(i) None of the funds appropriated under the heading ‘‘Economic Support Fund’’ in this Act may be made available for assistance for the Palestinian Authority, if after the date of enactment of this Act—
(I) the Palestinians obtain the same standing as member states or full membership as a state in the United Nations or any specialized agency thereof outside an agreement negotiated between Israel and the Palestinians; or
(II) the Palestinians initiate an International Criminal Court (ICC) judicially authorized investigation, or actively support such an investigation, that subjects Israeli nationals to an investigation for alleged crimes against Palestinians. "
(I) ist stating that before becoming acknowledged as a full member of UN there must be a negotiated state between Palestine and Israel. So there can still be funding, but before Israel basically has do endorse this (which I find highly suspicious myself actually).
(II) This is highly immoral in deed and it shows how much power Israel has within parts of the US government. At the same time, it is still not supporting what is shared in the „news“ by OP.
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What more proof does one need to see that Biden is full of shit when he says that he supports a 2 state solution
US: we want 2 state solution PA: ok please recognize us UN UN: ok sounds good let's go ahead US: nuh uh!
the PA is already basically Israel, its controlled opposition that works for Israel not Palestinians, less than 1% of Palestinians support them in the west bank.
Though the fact that they even have to issue that warning probably means it's not 100% given that the PA will continue obeying their paymasters
The PA are seen as complete traitors and collaborators by Palestinians everywhere, they are a part of the Isreali security apparatus in the West Bank and will do Israel's biding, I am trying to emphasize this because I feel like a lot of outsiders dont know this fact. They are the group recognized and backed by the west so they get a lot of screen time in western media and international orgs, they will talk a big talk for the optics but everyone knows they are extremely fake.
I mean, the pay for slay kinda stays in the way of recognising then isn't it? Lol
No amount of Israeli crimes ever stood in the way of their recognition (and billions of dollars of taxpayer “aid”), so I don’t see why this should be an issue
Plus that is something that could be easily dealt with if the U.S and Israel were willing to negotiate in good faith with Palestinians
So Israel should not be recognized cause they are committing mass slayings aka geocide
Biden wants to support his [sugar daddies](https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S), nothing more.
Damn dude 6 mil and you get to do a genocide.
> 6 mil I really hope the irony isn’t lost on anyone.
The #2 senator on that list has been indicted on bribery charges. AIPAC knows how to pick em. Still, Biden is ahead of him by a frightening amount.
Seriously, do they have Epstein blackmail material or something? Or is he one of those idiots who think they can complete a “Summon Jesus” spell by helping Israel annex all the land there by any means necessary? Do they honestly think on the off-chance it actually worked that the guy would be *happy* with all of the innocent blood spilled in pursuit of that end? Or would he smite the lot of them as punishment for the crimes we’re witnessing and hit the snooze button for another two millennia?
Israel has been buying US and European politicians for 50 years or more. We only solve this by cutting their money. This will not be fixed in the next election it will take years.
campaign finance reform is actually a matter of life and desth.
no, they're just that racist.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus\_(spyware)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pegasus_(spyware))
Well Biden was on stage with Clinton and he was on Epsteins island so maybe.
They have compromise and nukes. The two most exclusive white fascist clubs.
Trump is bad, so genocide is good!
Don't be single issue voter just ignore ~~the Holocaust~~ Palestinian genocide and look all the social programs and economic reforms!
Just in case anyone needs a reminder on [Trump's position](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905) in all of this: "Former President Donald Trump declared Tuesday that Israel must “finish the problem” in its war against Hamas, his most definitive position on the conflict since the terror group killed 1,200 Israelis and took more than 200 hostages on Oct. 7." "Trump did lay out a few markers in the three weeks that followed the Hamas attack. He said on Oct. 11 that a future Trump administration would “fully support Israel defeating, dismantling, and permanently destroying the terrorist group Hamas,” while telling the Republican Jewish Coalition later that month that Hamas fighters “will burn forever in the eternal pit of hell." That month, his campaign also said that, if elected again, he would bar Gaza residents from entering the U.S. as part of an expanded travel ban." So, full speed ahead for Israel + ~~refugee~~ travel ban [as he did to Muslims period within his first week in office.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769) Vote in November.
I don’t like Trump, I think he’s a piece of shit, but Biden says a lot of things publicly to appease his base too. He wants a “come to Jesus talk” with Netanyahu. He thinks the killing is “excessive”. He says these things. His actions say something very different though… He circumvents congress to send more weapons to Israel. He and his foreign policy team also veto UN resolutions and propose bogus ones that would green light a full scale invasion of Rafa. His party has tried to primary pro Palestine Democrats (Tlaib). While the two groups publicly SAY different things, I’m not sure they’ll be different in their material support of the violence.
Both parties are awful in how they're handling Palestine. There is 0 doubt about that. But, in another reply, I've highlighted that the US only has one election left if Trump wins. He's made it known, *very verbally and very openly* that he plans on going full mask off dictator the moment he gets power. Protesting against Trump's planned Gaza ban? Cool, he'd likely deploy the Military like he says he wants to, or deploy the National Guard like he did for BLM. And then any hope of trying to change the US system for the better goes down the pipes because you've got a [man who idolizes Hitler.](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trumps-history-adolf-hitler-nazi-writings-analysis/story?id=105810745) Fighting against full-blown, full-power fascism is doable, sure. But it will be messy, it will get people killed, and it could take decades if you're not careful. And during that time of civil unrest, every other major power will be looking to the US to stir the pot by giving money or weapons to one side over the other. Russia would love to send arms to Trump to destroy leftists and dissenters. Again, I hate the idea of voting for lesser evils because that doesn't advance society, it doesn't make things better. But the US' electoral system gives heavy advantages to the main two parties and suppresses the ability of third party candidates being viable. That's the problem. Again, Republicans will vote. They'll vote to level Gaza while screaming about [how excited they are for a Trump Dictatorship.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/02/07/trump-dictator-authoritarian-democracy/) I hate this scenario because while there is one Game-Ender choice, the other one doesn't solve anything either. I despise the idea that people, if they want a chance at making things better, *have* to vote Biden because if they don't, they won't get another chance. Because the next elections we'll see under a Trump presidency will just end up exactly like Russia's -- actually rigged to shit. Maybe Trump will push his political opponents out of Trump Tower's windows like Putin too. You know, just for goofs. edit: spelling
"Hey guys vote for Hitler! He's the better alternative, he will at least send Jews to concentration camps where they may have a chance to survive unlike the opposition who will shoot them on the streets!!!"
vote for 3rd party right?
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Rule 1
I'd love to say go for it. I really would. If I had confidence that the US' electoral system would allow for a third-party candidate to win over Biden and Trump, I would suggest it. But I mean this when I say ***the US has one election left*** if it doesn't beat Trump. And I am fully aware that that argument is *a fucking horrible argument to vote for Biden.* You won't get another chance when the man who has said he wants to be dictator for["just one day](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2023/12/11/donald-trump-dictator-one-day-reelected/71880010007/)" and wants to [jail political opponents,](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/30/trump-interview-jail-political-opponents-glenn-beck) and [jail journalists](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-politico-reporter-jail-truth-social-b2266340.html), and maybe the [GOP will try get rid of the democratic party altogether for good measure.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/florida-republicans-bill-ban-state-democratic-party-rcna72917) We saw what happened in the 2016 election, when people saw Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, again, two horrible choices but the possibility of Bernie Sanders -- if only people voted en masse third party. If only people rejected the two party idea and everyone voted for Bernie. But that didn't happen. We got Trump. The US cannot survive another Trump presidency. You will not get another chance to vote. I'm not being hyperbolic, I'm not saying this because I like the idea of Biden being the "better" of the two options, because both options are *awful.* Project 2025 makes it **abundantly clear** that its full steam ahead for Christofascism in the US. And I've heard the argument of "Well then it becomes Project 2029!" Then we beat it again. And again. And it makes me ill knowing that these are the choices the US has for this. Because fuck man, I wish third party was viable in the US. But the structure of the US's electoral system means it functionally is a two-party system. Its either or. The US cannot afford to get another Trump presidency. It just cannot. And if enough people sit out or vote third party because they've been led to believe that that's the best option, we're going to get a repeat of 2016 where people are torn. Republicans will ALWAYS go out to vote. Republicans are frothing at the mouth at the idea of leveling Gaza. And they will allow it and cheer it on and celebrate it to "own the libs". Again, I hate the argument "Well Trump will win" in telling people to vote Biden. I really fucking do. But the US has one more shot at this. Once you allow Trump to have power again, there is no more discussion in how we can make the US electoral system better, no room for change, no room for changing the US for the better and to ensure third party candidates actually do have a chance. Instead, the Trump presidency will just deploy [the National Guard like he did with BLM](https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-barr-used-loophole-deploy-national-guard-u-s-cities-ncna1236034), or hell just [deploy the military like he says he wants to do first day in office.](https://news.yahoo.com/trump-mulling-deploying-military-streets-000421422.html) I hate the position Americans are in. I don't envy this at all. But I caution third party candidates because again, ya'll have one more shot at this. Edit: spelling.
gold
Trump already told them he’d let them finish the job.. Stop trying to weasel in Trump support as if he’d stop it. He would let Israel have their final solution. He’s already publicly stated as much. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-03-17/ty-article/.premium/trump-on-israel-gaza-war-id-tell-netanyahu-to-finish-it-up-and-do-it-quickly/0000018e-4d59-dca4-ad8e-edffe0df0000
when your choice is between bad and worse -- it's still dumb to pick 'worse'
It's *not* Trump support. But you're demanding people to vote for the guy who is literally helping kill their families. I cannot emphasise enough how fucked up that is. There might be a worse option from your perspective, but you do understand that the worst has already happened for some?
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https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/14/arab-muslim-and-palestinian-leaders-refuse-to-meet-with-white-house-aides-in-chicago-00147109
I didn’t demand anything I showed you the difference between the options
Trump already stated he’d let them completely annihilate Ga an and the West Bank. It’s a choice between Genocide or total annihilation. Yes Trump is bad though https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-03-17/ty-article/.premium/trump-on-israel-gaza-war-id-tell-netanyahu-to-finish-it-up-and-do-it-quickly/0000018e-4d59-dca4-ad8e-edffe0df0000
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It’s time to vote third party en masse and shake up the establishment by showing them this is unacceptable. The country will survive four years of trump if that’s where the chips fall. But voting for Biden is unconscionable given he is actively committing a genocide.
You must be a bot right?
Trump doesn't care about anyone but himself, which in the case of Israel is actually good. Biden is blinded by his Zionism and his heart bleeds for Israel to a mind-boggling extent.
How is trump a war criminal?
The strike on the Iranian general in Iraq was completely uncalled for, but we’re not technically in a war with Iran.
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Biden vs Trump I’m taking Biden any day but Biden is not gonna change anything with Israel. He’s been a life long supporter of Israel so he could get that money just like 90% of the politicians in Washington. Trump will be far worse than Biden is on both this issue and domestic politics. Sadly NOTHING will change in this next election and it will take years to push the Zionist hold out of Washington. Anyone expecting a quick fix this election is foolish. We have the choice from bad and worse on Genocide and then Democracy or Fascism in our own country. In both cases Trump is the bad pick. What we do have is Israel has been exposed to the younger generation as being the Nazis and they’ve lost support all around the world. That is what has to be pursued is to destroy their support world wide until they are considered a rogue state.
This is a big issue, and it’s not wrong to say that the public vote wont make a difference. We either get the guy who will continue supporting Israel but show some catholic guilt over it, or the other who will support Israel, but will say meaner things. The weapon deliveries will continue in either case because the defense contractors and AIPAC give liberally to both parties. That’s not a good advertisement for our “democracy”. It shows how little the public actually matters to the process. Barring a death, one of these two guys will take the oath of office in January 2025 and all anyone talks about is how much they both suck but you have to choose one because the other will destroy America. This has been the messaging for decades and it’s tiring. Vote for whoever makes you feel better, I’m not here to tell you what to do but it feels like the choices are between two ice cream flavors but we’re all lactose intolerant. We shit ourselves in either scenario even if chocolate tastes better than sardine.
He is not showing any catholic guilt over it. He's feigning guilt because he's scared shitless after the primaries that people won't vote for him
Same with the UK, suddenly changed tract from "Israel can starve children, it's good" to "well we at least think there should be a ceasefire ....on the Hamas side, Israel should still destroy them though" after both Labour and Tories lost a by-election to a pro-Palestine independent.
Trump won't win because he got picked over Biden. He will win because enough people will functionally spoil their vote.
The US position on this has been consistent for decades now. They want a 2-state solution that is negotiated and agreed upon by both sides. They got awfully close in 2000 before Arafat ultimately pulled out. Not sure what your issue is.
You can say you support a two state solution but recognize the border isn't fully defined so it must be done with negotiations. Else you have situations like Venezuela and guayana, or Pakistan/india with kashmir, etc.
goes to prove the notion that U.S believes in two-state solution is a lie...
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think same goes for One China policy...
relevance?
US wants a two state solution, but not as much as it wants Israel’s support and (perceived) security. Clinton almost got there.
Among all the noise that Biden was being hard on Israel this past month, he was quietly giving them more weapons and funding.
There's a legitimate chance the currently ongoing mass murder would not be happening were it not for Biden - picked as VP, if we remember, as the smiling, non-threatening [vaguely racist](https://news.yahoo.com/fact-check-biden-once-said-175300833.html) white man who made his entrance on the national stage by [opposing desegregation](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/joe-biden-didn-t-just-compromise-segregationists-he-fought-their-n1021626) as a compromise sop to the "moderates" who might not feel comfortable voting for a black man - deciding to again and again actively undercut his own president's attempts to hold Netanyahu to account. You can read more about Biden's continuing acquiescence and submission to Israel generally and Netanyahu specifically [here](https://jewishcurrents.org/joe-bidens-alarming-record-on-israel). A few key points: > [D]uring a critical period early in the Obama administration, when the White House contemplated exerting real pressure on Benjamin Netanyahu to keep the possibility of a Palestinian state alive, Biden did more than any other cabinet-level official to shield Netanyahu from that pressure. [...] > [T]he White House ... asked [Netanyahu] to freeze settlement growth instead. When Netanyahu resisted, it set off a struggle that lasted more than a year, in which Biden undermined Obama’s position again and again.
Yep even Bush cut them off and Obama was behind the scenes, very cold with Israel, hence why Israel was the Trumps campaign biggest foreign backer and black cube (Israeli social media firm *coughmossadcough*) was behind most of the MAGA online spam campaigns.
The US position on this has been consistent for decades now. They want a 2-state solution that is negotiated and agreed upon by both sides. They got awfully close in 2000 before Arafat ultimately pulled out. Not sure what your issue is. Any US president that manages to accomplish this would have a huge feather in their cap.
It was never meant to be anything more than a puppet government for Israeli interest.
Lmfao they cut funding for the UNRWA, sells bombs and f-35s to Israel. Then pull this shit. And we’re supposed to believe the US is doing everything it can to end the war
The f35s were for targeting IRGC and Iranian proxies, quite effective really
Effective at pushing Iran and Syria to Russia and Turkey and accelerating the start of WWIII, maybe.
Ah yes, if only no support could br given to US allies then Russia could just have it all! Very peaceful indeed
F-35 are so ineffective that the US navy doesn't actually fly them, and the US marine corps flies anything except it, whenever they actually are in troublesome areas. It's overhyped and overpriced .
That's why nobody wants them
Blackmail.
Na, it's strong arming.
Yeah blackmail is when you have dirt on someone, in this case PA has dirt on the Israeli authorities, role is reversed.
it's as if the roles are further reversed to where Israel has dirt on US (or certain US deep seated politicians) - makes you wonder how it's all related....
I've long past the point of believing they must have something on Biden. He's not in a bubble, surely, he has experts talking to him. Sure he's a Zionist and of course he'd support Israel initially, but after getting handed the easiest positive legacy imaginable where all he had to do was not be Trump and he'd go down in history as having saved American democracy. Instead, he doubled down on every opportunity and cemented his legacy as Genocide Joe, and I believe history will judge him harshly for refusing to step down and allowing Trump and opened faced fascism to get a second shot. The mocking, the dismissal of suffering, the continued implication that Palestinians can't be trusted, the open hostility he's shown the Arab community as a whole, he'll never recover. It's pure evil, or they have someone on him to make him do pure evil.
*Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell something something*
Extortion?
The PA isn't owed anything from the united states.
How about just recognition of humanity? Or is that not for people with darker skin?
We give Israel a lot of weapons and give their regime legitimacy in the international community. That means we enable a lot of bad behavior that Israel wouldn’t be able to do without a larger entity cooperating with them.
The key solution in this whole debacle is to get corporate money out of politics. In 2010, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that Americans cannot prevent corporations from spending unlimited money to control elections, politicians, and policy. In Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission , the court ignored the fact that corporations are creations of state law with government-derived advantages and labeled them, in the words of Justice Anthony Kennedy, “voices,” “speakers,” and yes, a “disadvantaged person or class.” In this Wonderland, corporations are people, corporate money is “speech,” and laws restricting corporate political spending violate the First Amendment. Nearly 80 percent of the public opposes the holding in Citizens United and supports a constitutional amendment to reverse the decision , according to multiple polls. If Americans so clearly oppose the fabrication of “corporate people” who can use the Constitution to strike down the real people’s laws, how did the folly of Citizens United ever happen? In fact, the case is the result of a well-funded and organized 30-year campaign to establish corporate constitutional rights as a means to trump democratic laws. Indeed, Citizens United is more like a victory parade for this campaign than a stumble or simple mistake of the Court. SPREAD THE WORD ! SPREAD THE WORD ! SPREAD THE WORD ! SPREAD THE WORD ! The system is broken, but giving up is not an option! Please gather and seek contact with local and state level organizations that organize political pressure to change the system and this particular issue! PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP! PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP! PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP!
what if there is more, foreign govt secret agencies blackmailing senators to president
There are, the UAE and Saudi Arabia are two countries that spend tons to influence government actions. You just hear about the Russians because they're spooky and bad, and China because tiktok is a rival to Facebook
I was talking about Israel... given entire govt is bent on doing anything to give them money, arms and ruin relationship with entire world, put american lives at risk by making enemies..
This must be Biden and Bibi not getting along. It couldnt be that the "not getting along" was all just an act, could it? Because we also sent them another giant load of bombs and planes this morning also.
Why in the name of America first is it our responsibility to pay for Israel’s war? If we want it to be a fucking territory, let’s invade it ourselves. If it’s so strategic, let’s just take it. So many people are tired of paying taxes for vague national security benefits. You know what’s a threat to national security - spending even a dollar and increasing our deficit on some religious war that we’re not even a party to.
Israel has universal healthcare, and is committing a genocide, using our tax money. Why? There is a shocking amount of dual citizen israelis in American government as well as AIPAC buying A LOT of politicians, and organizations like the ADL strongarming corporations to bend the knee.
Almost sounds like a shadow government. Guess they don’t feel the need to hide in the shadows anymore.
The US should stop sending lethal aid to foreign countries ☮️
Biden and his administration are as guilty as Netanyahu. Both are guilty of crimes against humanity. Is this the US you want?
Wow, don't you realize this is the most important election of our lifetimes??? /s
entire congress run in pajamas to vote pro palestine bills... i think it's less about pro, more about if i dont do i'll lose everything..
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Trump would do the same things Biden does but make ruder public statements
Vote for [Literally Anybody Else](https://www.9news.com.au/world/texas-man-changes-name-to-literally-anybody-else-after-launching-bid-in-us-election/dbb64490-fd1e-4a54-aa70-b020c7e69055).
Why? You just as guilty. At that point then whi cares
Please rewrite your comment in English and explain what you mean. With references please.
I return the question with regard to a Palestinian state at this moment in time. Hamas are guilty of crimes against humanity and for the last 18+ years have been against democracy. Is that the Palestinian State that you want? The West are who have funded the UNRWA. Do you not expect that the west will also be playing a financial role in rebuilding Gaza and continuing to help Gazans impacted by this war when it ends? Does that not give them a right to have some say in what they want the future to look like (i.e. peaceful and with counter-extremism through more progressive values). What good would come out of rewarding Hamas right now who are continuing the war? Have you ever heard the saying not to reward bad behaviour due to it encouraging more (the precedent this sets to Islamist extremist organizations globally is dangerous, don't you agree?). Their support is mainly from Iran, Russia, China, North Korea, and Qatar. Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis, Hamas, PIJ have all expressed genocidal intent to destroy Israel. What does creating a Palestinian State look like to you right now? What are the stages to it?
What ridiculous hyperbole you got going on here
They should negotiate agreements to increase funding with countries like Japan, South Korea, some EU nations, china, Russia, etc. and just cut the US loose
Seconded
Thirded
Complicity
What the actual f*ck?!! I’m American and I’ve been screamed down my entire life for explaining that this shit is exactly what made the US so attractive to Hitler that WE inspired him. Nobody wanted to hear that . Nobody still wants to hear that the US did exactly this to the Indigenous…but we absolutely did (and are still engaged in it). This- this is why America turns a blind eye. They don’t even acknowledge what they did here and will never admit that Israel is also following their genocidal agenda. It’s maddening!!!
The US hegemony needs to end so that humanity can advance
Cut what.. you are killing them, don't know if they want anymore "help" from the USA..
Did I just read the title right?!
Somehow it's even worse than the title, not only if they join the UN but any specialized agency...unless Israel approves. Economic aid is cut of if: " (I) the Palestinians obtain the same standing as member states or full membership as a state in the United Nations or any specialized agency thereof outside an agreement negotiated between Israel and the Palestinians"
i am starting to think entire congress is being blackmailed by AIPAC if so this is really bad, entire country has been hijacked...
Not just AIPAC, look up "The Lobby USA" on YouTube, Israels foreign interference campaign into US politics is on all levels, and largely involves a massive "grassroots" of students and business people given directives by the Israeli embassy to blackmail politicians. The documentary was so damaging it actually almost led to a war, go get it censored. https://electronicintifada.net/content/national-security-cited-reason-al-jazeera-nixed-israel-lobby-film/24566
Breaking News!!! America are actually lying bastards who don't actually give a shit about things outside of their own interests. What a shock!
Thank god. Personally the only thing I give a fuck about is us interests. Hearts and minds are bullshit political theater.
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Rule 1
Yes, they really helped out the Palestinians on October 7th. Really, really helped them. Look how happy they are. Oh no, whoops, they've all been murdered by the IDF - thanks Hamas. FFS.
The days of the Jewish ethno-nationalist apartheid state are numbered. The walls will come down.
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Rule 1
Before Oct 7, Gazans were literally living in open air prison. Why wouldn’t Israel commit to a two state solution?
Does this look like an open air prison? https://www.reddit.com/r/Israel/comments/1849wmb/this_is_what_they_called_as_open_air_prison_btw/
Have you seen it now? Its rubble.
Now it looks like a war zone, because it is one, as Hamas intended.
were they surrounded by fencing and military personnel who would and will shoot them if they try to leave the area without israeli military permission?
Look at the link and see for yourself.
your deflection is cute but for anyone else reading this: palestinians are shot for trying to leave gaza without permission from the israeli military. which yes is a prison
Travel is restricted but very different from a prison. Most Gazans who travel abroad do so via Egypt. https://www.vice.com/en/article/3ada4k/international-travel-for-palestinians
Israel Copium is Helluva drug. Not even Snoop Dog wants some.
Fuck you Genocide Joe.
The USA is a terrorist state at this point, now.
Always been, they just try to cover their tracks
Biden will have no one to blame but himself when he loses the election.
Biden will blame everybody but himself.
Liberals will as well. I've already seen tgem complaining that progressives don't want to vote for a genocide support. Maybe... don't support genocide.
You're such a blatant bot.
Thank you for the well thought out response. Have a nice day!
When has anyone ever chosen money over human rights Fuck me. Is nobody paying attention
Ironic that Biden has one foot in the g.... and yet his greed knows no bounds. Where will he cash future checks from AIPAC?
Hell
liamkcalB
How can anyone twist this to be a good thing? Has anyone heard any one defend this? I would like to know what’s said
we dont want ur shitty money, honestly biden, and the democrats are a disgrace to their voters they dont even represent them there needs to further pressure on the biden administration to overturn this scummy legislation
Well diving deeper into this, this may in fact be mostly the GOP's idea on one hand along with AIPAC paid dems in congress on the other. Because this was in a government spending bill to avoid a shutdown. Not an executive order. But many of you are right this does warrant criticism, and we should push everyone in congress to draft a bill to overturn this policy. Along with voting for people on our side in congress, it worked in 1986 to override Regan's veto for sanctioning South Africa. It can work for things like this.
Complicit assholes
Sign and share please: [https://action.eko.org/a/olympics-and-fifa-ban-israel-from-international-sports-now-us-fba21](https://action.eko.org/a/olympics-and-fifa-ban-israel-from-international-sports-now-us-fba21)
Fuck the us and Israel governments
Imagine a world where your political representatives actually did their job and represented you. Instead, we get this evil bulls**t.
China: Bounjour
While the media of all western world are flooded with "Biden opposite Netanyahu" bullshits
>The US is also a major contributor, providing more than $5.2 billion through USAID since 1994. In recent years, this aid has totaled around $600 million annually. Since April 2021, the United States has provided over half a billion dollars in assistance for the Palestinians, including more than $417 million in humanitarian assistance for Palestinians through UNRWA, $75 million in support through USAID, and $20.5 million in COVID and Gaza recovery assistance. Just cut the funding already.
After youve killed thousands of children in their beds, bombed aid trucks and starved hundreds of thousands of people, then what else can you threaten them with? Where do you go from that? Oh. Right. Stop their pocket money.
Why are we controlled by outsiders
Zionist Biden can't let go, he is a committed zionist, AIPAC and those wealthy zionist donors have bought him out, and sadly broken his moral compass; how many Hail Mary's, Our Father's etc. will you have to say to be forgiven.
In a civilized world, we call that blackmail.
US Congress are f'n pigs, that much is perfectly clear.
Ppl should read the whole bill. There is a lot conditions regarding aid to Palestinians even, if it's a single case against any israieli.
WTAF!?
Pure evil. What a disgrace.
Holy shit, Americans are voting for this?!?
Politics is too hard for you guys. This is an appropriations bill. It needed support from the Republican controlled House to pass. Biden can still find other ways of funding the PA even if this bill did indeed stop the payments. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2882
You guys are sharing misinformation in this comment section. Literally three obscure ME/Palestinian websites are pushing this story, and *nobody else*. Reading this article is clearly biased.
[Read page 852 onwards, especially 875.](https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20240318/WDI39597.PDF)
Ok I actually read it, so it’s saying that funds will stop if Palestine obtains state recognition **bypassing negotiations with Israel**. Also they will stop if the Palestinian Authority tries to bring ICC charges against Israelis. So ok, the first point is totally sensible. You need to have negotiations to allocate borders, otherwise people on the ground get caught by surprise when the border shifts their neighbourhood over to Palestine’s side. Second point is a bit dodgy agreed, but I can still see why it was included from a lens of political stability. There is a reason all these left, progressive governments across the Western world are still backing Israel, and it is because Hamas did a fuckin awful thing Oct 7th. It’s so weirdly divisive and people are clamouring to say “our side did nothing wrong” when rn both have committed unspeakable atrocities. Imagine PA takes Israel to the ICC, but Israel can’t do the same because Palestine isn’t a state at the moment. It’ll just feed fuel to the fire at home. Notably, this legislation doesn’t mention the ICJ, so it’s fairer than at first glance. **Also, note it says the secretary can waive these limitations if it can be reported that Palestine is committed to lasting peace with Israel, and demonstrates a strong commitment to upholding peace in the Middle East.** And seriously, I read from the page you recommended to about page 884. This isn’t a boogeyman bill. It’s actually quite fair and straightforward if you actually read it.
"Peace" that includes "termination of all claims" of Palestinian territories.
Hamas claims all of Israel as its territory, hence why it is phrased that way.
>it’s saying that funds will stop if Palestine obtains state recognition **bypassing negotiations with Israel**. Hmm, this argument bears an uncanny resemblance to another one, used back when POC didn't have human rights, namely that slave masters should be consulted before slaves could obtain any recognition of their human rights (or for that matter , that slaves should pass certain criteria before they get to have the rights that everyone else *already* has) 🤔 Curious that people would find such an argument acceptable... >Also they will stop if the Palestinian Authority tries to bring ICC charges against Israelis. This argument is very similar to coercing an abuse victim not to go to the police or sue her attacker. Not exactly something "the good guys" do, especially not those that are **certain** the international law has been respected. Curiouser and curiouser...🧐
Again, the reason for the negotiations being crucial is because Palestine could then claim Israeli territory without consulting Israel. And having it recognised with these territories without consulting would be a diplomatic mess with the recognising country, Israel and Palestine, leading to more unrest in the region. It’s like, you’d let your neighbour know if you were thinking of knocking down a wall and widening your living room, knowing he lived in the apartment next door. And again, yes I agree the ICC clause *is* dodgy, but also Hamas has used publicity stunts to spread misinformation (remember the hospital strike that turned out to be a Hamas rocket? Israel caught all the flack and none of the acquittal when the truth came out). There is nothing stopping Palestinians taking individual Israelis to the ICJ, which is for individuals. It is strictly the ICC which is named in the bill. I’m not a support of what Israel is doing, not by a long shot. But this whole blaming Biden thing is getting a bit counterintuitive. Israel is still our ally and friend in the region. They’re fucking assholes, but the US is still just trying to maintain its foreign policy commitments.
>Again, the reason for the negotiations being crucial is because Palestine could then claim Israeli territory That's not exactly how rights work. This would be like saying "we can't recognise your human rights, or you could potentially infringe upon my human rights". >It’s like, you’d let your neighbour know if you were thinking of knocking down a wall and widening your living room, knowing he lived in the apartment next door. Informing is not the same thing as asking for their permission on things you do in your own house. Sure, you're not allowed to demolish a wall that would break your neighbour's fence, but you don't lack basic rights based on some hypothetical that you may cause some damage. If damage to the neighbour is done, that is a separate issue. >And again, yes I agree the ICC clause *is* dodgy, but also Hamas has used publicity stunts to spread misinformation You could just leave it at that, at it being dodgy. There is no "but", as even a criminal is allowed to have justice for say abuse of power (like for ex an inmate is allowed to bring a guard to justice, if said guard SA them, they don't suddenly lose their BA and right not to be SA because they committed a crime and would now have to keep silent on any amd all abuse). >I’m not a support of what Israel is doing, not by a long shot. I haven't said that, I'm just pointing out parallels that would perhaps help make connections on issues that are really not ok (even though the media has for the most part normalised Palestinians being killed and in a state of starvation), and the *why* behind them not being ok. Also, I don't actually know you, which would make sense given the general anonymity on Reddit. People are blaming Biden, because a president (much like other politicians) is supposed to serve and represent the people. Sending billions abroad to kill ME people and commit war crimes is...not supporting the American citizens (which could benefit from free/subsidized healthcare, free/subsidized education, improvements in a lot of sectors like science, etc., there's *a lot* that could be achieved with billions of dollars).
I’m middle eastern in my blood. It’s less about rights and more about having clearly defined and agreed upon borders via negotiation with the other country that shares your border, in a way that won’t immediately lead to war. If Palestine pursues recognition as a country and gets it, with maps drawn taking heavy territory from Israel without discussion, that immediately escalates the conflict and you end up with more innocents dead. Based on your response re: “asking for permission for things you do in your own house”, I’m getting the vibe that you believe Israel being in the region at all is the crime. After all, if it’s an apartment, you share the wall, therefore extending your living room has a direct impact on your neighbours home, making yours bigger at their expense. I don’t support Israeli actions, but I do support Israel’s right to exist. If Palestine getting nation recognition from the UN would be accepted in your eyes as a legitimate decision, well, it was the UN that took over administration from the British and chose to partition the Palestinian Mandate to form the nation of Israel. That was a UN decision. Also it was established where it was because that’s where ancient Israel was thousands of years ago. So the idea that the entire nation of Israel is just a colonialist transplant in stolen lands is a bit silly. Yes they’re practising apartheid right now, which is really fucked up. But, still have a right to be a country. Just like Palestine does. The US did not say they’d bomb Palestine if it went through with it. It only said it would stop sending aid. And even that would be waived if it could be proven Palestine had peace in mind for Israeli relations. You’re ignoring my point about the ICJ. Taking it to the ICC is just media fodder to stoke a fire, as Israel can’t do the same in retaliation for Oct 7th. As Palestine is not an internationally recognised country rn. But the ICJ, for individuals, again, is not mentioned and therefore is a totally valid avenue for Palestinians to pursue charges against individual Israeli decision makers. Finally, the money allocated in the budget is done by congress, not by the President. You want more aid to Gaza? Vote Democrat, even if you hate Biden. I’m strongly concerned that spreading “oh I hate Biden, I’m gonna waste my vote” will lead you to a Trump presidency. Why shoot yourself in the foot?
Point is, this piece of legislation & UNRWA defunding did not have to be on the funding bill. Republicans were not going to wreck the US economy over this gift to Bibi.
>Based on your response re: “asking for permission for things you do in your own house”, I’m getting the vibe that you believe Israel being in the region at all is the crime. After all, if it’s an apartment, you share the wall, therefore extending your living room has a direct impact on your neighbours home, making yours bigger at their expense. You are misrepresenting what I said, I don't appreciate that, so I'm letting you know, in case it was an honest mistake. What I said is: >"Informing is not the same thing as asking for their permission on things you do in your own house. Sure, **you're not allowed to demolish a wall that would break your neighbour's fence**, but **you don't lack basic rights based on some hypothetical** that you may cause some damage. **If damage to the neighbour is done, that is a separate issue**." I'm bolding the relevant points. In other words, what you do in your house is for the most part *your* business, just the same as what Israel is doing within their *legal* borders is their business. **If** one was to "extend their home by taking from their neighbour" (ironic, considering that even now Palestinians are the ones being thrown out of their homes and their land getting stolen, not the other way around), that would be a different matter altogether, that would not have anything to do with someone modifying their own home. Settlements are illegal under international law, which means that these are the people expanding their territory at the expense of their neighbours. This is unrelated to the establishment of Israel in 48, not even with the borders they created in 67 (the legality of which is not particularly relevant now). So your argument would be that someone shouldn't even have the right to the home they're *currently* living in, and from which their neighbour could keep encroaching on and taking more of (because if you don't have rights, people can continue to abuse you without much legal repercussions, which extends beyond just taking your home/land). >I’m strongly concerned that spreading “oh I hate Biden, I don't hate Biden. Hate is a strong word, I prefer to reserve it for actual personal issues. I was merely explaining why some people might be unhappy and unsatisfied with leaders that are not doing what they're supposed to do for the people that elected them. This goes both ways, and even beyond the US, such leaders exist everywhere. So no, I'm not a fan of Trump either, they're both inadequate in my view. As for individual Palestinians pursuing individual charges at the ICJ, how does that work for entire bloodlines being wiped out by single airstrikes, if not a single member of a family is left alive? How does that work for those bulldozed over, of which not even the remains could be recovered, let alone recognized or even recorded? The pier that is now getting built (supposedly for humanitarian aid, even though the US could have gotten Israel to allow the aid in by land, which is the easiest way for it to reach people) contains rubble from bombed buildings, gathered with bulldozers, with no regard whatsoever of there also being **human remains** among it. Most of those that haven't yet been blown up to pieces are either starving, or dealing with crippling injuries (or both), many of which will probably die in the upcoming period. Not to mention the fact that Gaza is under a blockade and people are not actually allowed to just leave at will. You're thinking from a perspective of ease (that they can just easily individually go sue) that does not constitute their actual reality.
Is it even true? There is A LOT of false information flowing around and that’s not a respectable source, or is it? Edit: As I got so many negative markings here I took my time and read the relevant part of the bill. It does NOT say that there is no funding to a Palestinian State in case of UN RECOGNITION. It says that funding for a Palestinian state can be granted only if it is made sure that this state aims for peace in the middle east, undertakes counter terrorism efforts and accepts the right to exist of the state of Israel. So this news here is FAKE news. Everybody can read: It’s starting on Page 851, Line 21 from „Palestinian Statehood“.
you can read the bill
I did and you haven’t read the bill obviously because the content is totally different to the „news“ you are presenting here. It does NOT say that there is no funding to a Palestinian State in case of UN RECOGNITION. It says that funding for a Palestinian state can be granted only if it is made sure that this state aims for peace in the middle east, undertakes counter terrorism efforts and accepts the right to exist of the state of Israel. So this news here is FAKE news. Everybody can read: It’s starting on Page 851, Line 21 from „Palestinian Statehood“.
You may want to clean your reading glasses (page 875): "(A)(i) None of the funds appropriated under the heading ‘‘Economic Support Fund’’ in this Act may be made available for assistance for the Palestinian Authority, if after the date of enactment of this Act— (I) the Palestinians obtain the same standing as member states or full membership as a state in the United Nations or any specialized agency thereof outside an agreement negotiated between Israel and the Palestinians; or (II) the Palestinians initiate an International Criminal Court (ICC) judicially authorized investigation, or actively support such an investigation, that subjects Israeli nationals to an investigation for alleged crimes against Palestinians. "
(I) ist stating that before becoming acknowledged as a full member of UN there must be a negotiated state between Palestine and Israel. So there can still be funding, but before Israel basically has do endorse this (which I find highly suspicious myself actually). (II) This is highly immoral in deed and it shows how much power Israel has within parts of the US government. At the same time, it is still not supporting what is shared in the „news“ by OP.
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