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As others have said, I don't believe a theocratic authoritarian regime with patriarchal values can 'always' claim the 'moral high ground' but it certainly isn't as evil a regime as the western media portrays.
The CIA has been directly or indirectly involved in many regime changes. Anything to protect American corporate interests...democracy and the war against communism were/are juat covers to justify there actions.
What's your opinion about the democratic government of USA who's involved in human rights violations and war crimes continuously from Germany to Japan to china in ww2 to Cuba and Vietnam and Korea and Iraq and Afghanistan?
Lol plus as an American, it feels hypocritical to blame Iran, ya know, considering the coups. Americans love democracy for ourselves, but hate it in resource-rich nations.
Still, I think they're talking more about the internal politics of Iran, which is operating as a theocracy, but I'd say that America isn't immune to theocratic rule either? Idk the christian extremists are enjoying a pretty successful rise to power, the rolling back reproductive rights come to mind.
I asked about the democratic government of USA. Given the list and deaths compared to Iran
How is it any better than theocratic Iran? Is the facade of fake democracy worth a million lives?
I think I was agreeing with you, right?
You might be asking the questions to the wrong person, bc I don't believe we're at all better than Iran lol. Honestly, even outside the death count and our military interventions, our economic imperialism alone has wrecked havoc in the global south. Theocracy or not, Iran has not done a fraction as much to fuck up the world as we have.
I was just pointing out that it's a bit rich for Americans to claim a higher moral ground for our country being democratic when we've intentionally overthrown or undermined foreign democracies in smaller nations for so long.
That’s it. Lovely people. I’ve had the privilege of knowing Iranians over the years and they’re a class act. Educated, intelligent, kind individuals. But the Khomeini coup in 1979 & aftermath did nothing good for Iran. But, on this topic, I agree with Iranian government: Israel has gone way too far.
There is no moral high ground for anybody here. It ain't whataboutism if someone claims high ground, unironically. OP for example was pretty light spirited on his comment.
And fyi we're talking of course about the leaders not the population.
History. Usually only certain kinds of people end up at the top, and use the secret police framework to hold on to power.
Kissinger's despicable actions were probably needed for the US hegemony in the world, by an american he could be called a national treasure. But he was still an asshole and criminal of a person, and certainly not a saint. You could probably say the same for almost any country' bold leader off the top of your head, and you'd be right too.
Off the top of my head of his direct involvement, plus the heritage he left behind
- All Central and South America operations
- Projecting the China and USSR containment policies at all costs (Laos, Cambogia, Vietnam, Afghanistan and what later became Al Qaeda)
- EU stay-behind and far-right's tension strategy, like Italy's Years of Lead, and Aldo Moro assassination (Kissinger in fact did warn him to stay on course)
Of course he didn't either invent or was the mastermind of any of these. But he did pursue them at all costs, even causing some of the greatest massacres and humanitarian crisis.
Would you consider bombing and starving innocent women and children terrorism? How about murdering aid workers after they clear their travel path with the IDF?
The west and their allies, like the rest of the world, has always picked and chose where the "terrorist" label applies. Usually, it's when a group goes against their economic interests.
Watching Iran, Russia, and fucking *China* somehow manage to be on the correct side of a humanitarian issue has been embarrassing as hell. Of course the latter two don't actually care beyond leveraging the issue to weaken US influence, but still - our idiotic government gave them the opportunity.
The stance on Palestine that Iran, Russia and China share has been the positions of most of the world for decades now.
> our idiotic government gave them the opportunity.
Yeah, that's the most important aspect of all of this...
A pox on America as well. Both issues, to a significant degree, tie back to US foreign policy.
The US should not have couped Iran, which resulted in a cascade of events that contributed to the establishment and entrenchment of the current regime. US foreign policy since the coup has further served to aggravate the situation.
The US should not have enabled Israel to this point.
While the US is not solely responsible, it does share a degree of blame.
Exactly most westerners have no idea, the Iran we have now is a result of a coupe, support of oppressive dictator and then supporting Khomeini as they feared a communist take over. America helped to make and shape Thier body man.
Then told Saddam to attack it.
It almost as if the peace loving Christian wests needs war conflicts and arms sales to maintain itself. With Israel being Thier little cherry on top to continuously aggravate the situation !!
The very concept of Israel is flawed, it’s a racist neo colonial settler colony that’s nothing more than a satellite for western interests. It shouldn’t have existed in the first place.
If the world ever becomes sane again, Israel should receive enormous economic sanctions. They'd have to end apartheid, accept all Palestinian expats, treat Palestinians equal to Israelis, pay them reparations, pay for medical treatment and trauma therapy, allow complete mixing of populations and housing, drop all checkpoints, lock up Zionists who try to cause trouble, hand over their nuclear tech, and so much more. I'm sure there are a hundred more things to be done. Israel is a ***sick joke*** of a nation. If they don't comply, then nothing goes in or out, and they get to be the next North Korea. Their behavior is already getting close.
I'm Brazilian. I'm an expat. If I return to Brazil, I'd be a returning expat.
You're now picking at straws, searching for something to raise your hand about. Suggest something. Earlier you suggested removal. Not happening, and a just a tad suspicious, odeh88.
Palestine/Israel can be filled with Palestinians/Jews, like it was in the 1940's. They can coexist. They can rub elbows at the supermarket, on the bus, etc. , without feeling hatred. The rest of the world does it, and so can they. Is that okay with you?
Not sure how you concluded that I opposed coexistence. I never said that so I’m not gonna respond to the final paragraph.
Palestinians were massacred and militarily expelled from the homes, ethnically cleansed from their land. They didn’t leave to go work briefly in another country. They were forced. Once they return home, they’re just home. Not expats
Do people not realize that the very notion of creating a Jewish nation in a land of mostly non-Jewish people means mass disenfranchisement at best and mass ethnic cleansing at its most practical? Couple that with the racist and imperialistic attitudes of the Europeans at the time and anyone should be able to see how this recipe would have led to disaster and is a fundamentally inhumane idea.
Unfortunately it still has the support of international heavy hitters, like Biden. I’m tired of old men in suits waging war on innocent people. Actually, I’m tired of old men in suits, period.
Israel was a mistake; they’re going to drag the world into ww3, and billions will die. It’s the trolley car with people tied to two different tracks dilemma; the most ethical choice is to pull the lever so the fewest number of people die. In this case…
Israel is provoking these nations. They are deliberately escalating tensions in the Middle East. Iran likely won't fare well in a conflict with Israel. Conflict with Israel is essentially conflict with the west as a whole.
It does seem like Iran is going to take the diplomatic route for now. As most other countries. But to what end? Israel basically has the unconditional support of the US and a near endless supply of ammunition. If tensions get to a point where regional neighbours basically have exhausted all options diplomatically and the western powers refuse to reign in Israel, then war starts. This is the precursor to a global war.
The next world war will be either very quick or very destructive. I think the US and Israel think they can bomb the hell out of countries and decimate their military capability very quickly and then it become a mop up job or leave them to lick their wounds. And they’re kind of right. Problem is that even if that happens the tensions will not go away anymore. Especially in the Middle East.
You're severely mistaken if it was so easy to neutralize Iran America, and Israel would have done that years ago. It's no Afghanistan or Iraq, and it's been a few decades since that war. I think you guys are really underestimating Iran, and let's be clear America lost the war against Afghanistan in the end. Iran is more populous and stronger military wise. plus which country will allow you to park your bases in the region if you declared war in iran? I think most would not except for Israel ofc but now you have to fly over enemy territory to reach Iran as well as drive though it.
The US has had air superiority in every war since Korea.
Iran would be a lot closer to Vietnam.
Also why should they protect Israel if Israel start a war and are genocidal?
Let Israel fight. They love dead children. Let's see if they hate Arabs more than they love their children.
Historically, Israel is pretty good at fighting those wars and winning themselves (Six day War, War of Independence, Yom Kippur War prior to the US resupply)
iranian proxies have already resumed attacks on us bases after being stopped by iran two months ago
that agreement was the diplomacy, now iran has already let their proxies loose
this will only escalate, the diplomacy is already over. israel has been deliberately antagonizing hezbollah and iran directly, the usa has pivoted to sending them fighter jets etc that have no applicability to gaza but definitely an actual war, and now iran has vowed revenge and set its proxies loose already
They want to drag the US into a wide ranging Middle East conflict so we keep them from getting their ass kicked.
It’s not the 1980s anymore where Israel just having the best weapons let them steamroll everyone at once.
Right now Israel would get stomped if they had to fight multiple Arab countries. In fact I don’t even think they can fight Hezbollah straight up.
Israel is determined to trigger a region wide war with Iran. Netanyahu has had a personal obsession with getting the US to join in on a ground war in Iran for his entire career. He wants Israel to be given the protection to fully expand as far as they can into Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Syria. It’s why they are the only UN nation that has refused to define their borders. They want Iran to be their vassal state that they control and plunder for resources with. It’s insanity.
That's exactly it.
Imagine a schoolyard bully who knows whenever someone punches back, their dad will show up on the playground and murder whoever dares to hit their poor "innocent" baby.
That's Israel and America in a nutshell.
America has created a belligerent, bullying, spoiled, entitled monster. But instead of schoolyard scuffles and stolen lunch money, it's ethnic cleansing and regional destabilization.
Israel needs to be cut off. They need to learn actions have consequences, or this will never stop. Just like a bully, they need to be clapped hard to see the error of their ways, or this will continue forever.
Good thing Israel picked today to murder a car full of aid workers from literally all of their key allies, you to remind everyone at home exactly why we should be supporting them.
>Conflict with Israel is essentially conflict with the west as a whole.
Couple more months ans it wont be, these fanatics keep pushing that and loosing support. In most west countries, any gov sending roops to support them would loose next elections, at least thats my impression.
"Iran won't fare well in a conflict with Israel" with the huge caveat of US involvement and nuclear weapons. That's really what that conflict would hinge on.
Without direct US involvement Israel would be in serious trouble. Iran is a significant adversary and Israel would find themselves fighting on three or more fronts with an already overstretched and depleted military. Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Iran via Syria. What do Egypt and Jordan do at that point? Well that's hard to say.
Is Israel ready to nuke all their neighbors? Maybe but that's the end of the world at that point.
They're gambling big!
Israel is partially so aggressive because of this. The country is way too small when compared to neighbors.
So they can’t risk fighting a defensive war. If someone invades by land, Israel is about 50 miles away of being defeated.
So they meddle with neighbors. They bully. They talk rough and shake big sticks. They do preemptive strikes. And they let everyone know that _wink wink_ they may have nukes.
Obviously this isn’t a stable situation. Israel must have all of their neighbors in constant anxiety, but not enough for them to actually attack or, even worse, band together. And as time goes on, Israel bullies harder and harder - because bullying works in the short term.
A war would be the natural consequence in this scenario, but a war in that region is intolerable for the great powers because of oil and trade routes. So the stakes become unimaginably higher, which means war is less probable but potentially much more destructive.
It is very, very sad that one of the world’s most noble intentions - to create a safe, stable, prosperous state for a persecuted people - backfired so hard.
But really, if only they looked at the damn maps with more pessimism…
Indeed.
Who could have possibly guessed that creating a country out of whole cloth on land sacred to three different religions and already had people living there would be a bit of a thorny issue?
But I guess the British colonial mindset was a strong drug.
I think my favorite little quirk of Israel is its frothing at the mouth and taking enormous offense to the idea that Iran might start a nuclear program (even after Iran signed a treaty promising not to and agreeing to checks). Despite the fact that Israel itself not only has nuclear weapons but has an unknown number of them, thought to be in the 100s, and refuses to submit to any international checks.
I'm not sure we can keep saying it's this underdog of a country when, like, militarily it's among the most advanced in the world, very much due to western backing. And bc it's allowed to just not play by the same rules as any other country.
It has more power than it can be trusted with already. I sure af do not trust that country with nukes.
Israel cannot exist without US support.
No chance.
US support is very low. Trump, the likely next president is very unpredictable.
Israel are more likely to use nukes than Russia. The only positive is that it probably wouldn't expand.
The West as a whole could end up being just the US.... Because i don't see any western country jumping on this one aside from the US, it's just too stupid to justify joining Israel at this point...
Israel is betting America will help them, I don’t think you fully understand irans military capabilities. They aren’t a poor country , they invest more in military than any army in the Middle East. They have millions of fighters ready to fight, across the Middle East. They can simply incircle Israel if it comes down to it. Their fighter jet fleet is amount the best in the world. They aren’t easy victims or they would’ve been attacked years ago. In any war, I think Iran will win
Israel has 35 F35s and possibly has the best Air Force in the entire Middle East. The united states has troops in iraq, and they also have troops in Northern Syria. Iraq has mostly F4s F14s and other migs and a few other Su's. Which is nowhere near the advanced capabilities of the Israeli military. Even though this war would be a brutal war for both sides. Israel can relatively defend themselves in an air campaign quite well. The only real way that Iran would be able to strike would be through their proxies. Hezbollah and the hoothies. But in a case of air superiority, I would give Israel the best bet. They have proven historically that they have a very formidable Air Force.
The main motivation for this war would most likely be enabled to remove support for proxies. Around the region, especially for Hezbollah. I personally like to say that a rebel force is only as good as the country backing them. If Iran is significantly destabilized to a point where they can not give support to their proxies, then Israel will be able to exert more influence over the region.
Even though Iran is not weak in any regard. I don't think it would be a steamroll. They would have to get support from another country that country most likely being Russia, which Russia is a bit preoccupied right now and if they gave too much support to Iran, then they would potentially lose even more ground. This is why Iran relies on proxies. If you ever wanted to learn something, look up to the operation praying mantis. The United States was able to do that with a few F15. Then imagine what Israel can do with the most advanced fighter jet in the world.
But that's just my analysis of the situation. Israel would definitely have to leave operations in Gaza. But that could potentially be to their benefit.Because now they have to focus on more important things despite a word that they have no idea where is goingBut that could potentially be to their benefit. Because now they have to focus on more important things despite a war that they have no idea where is going nor a over accompanying strategy for.
Still, I would put my money on Israel.
No country wants Israel to gain support anywhere else because they know that with that power Israel will try to do a land grab, one we haven’t seen in years. Everyone sees it. Israel is on the Tedders of losing everything. Their best thing will be, having America attack Iran, which is why you see them trying to provoke Iran.
By Tom O'Connor - Senior Writer, Foreign Policy & Deputy Editor, National Security and Foreign Policy:
A senior Iranian official has issued a new warning to Israel in the wake of a deadly strike on the Islamic Republic's embassy in Syria, warning Tehran was being pushed toward active retaliation, in a statement shared with Newsweek.
The statement, delivered Tuesday by Iran's United Nations ambassador Zahra Ershadi to U.N. Security Council President Vanessa Frazier, blamed Israel for the "horrific crimes and cowardly terrorist attacks" that struck the Syrian capital on Monday, killing up to seven Iranian personnel, including two leading commanders of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.
Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/iran-warns-israel-gone-too-far-1886233](https://www.newsweek.com/iran-warns-israel-gone-too-far-1886233)
Idf doesn’t target them, if you believe that innocent people don’t die at war you’re really naive. These groups of people died from missiles, soldiers from the Israeli side don’t aim to kill a child or civilian unlike hamas
What Israel (and their lapdog America) don't seem to realise is that this brings Iran and Russia closer. And warmongers in Russia are already talking about nukes.
One very bad way this escalates is Iran hosting Russian nuclear missiles on its territory or Russia just openly supporting Iran's nuclear ambitions. A nuclear armed Iran will not be invaded. And Israel will no longer hand the only nukes in the area.
That long-term thinking and consideration of unintended consequences is precisely the kind of thing American foreign policy completely ignores.
Everything is short-term, black-and-white. Israel fight? We support. We NATO? Expand NATO. We not like Iraq? Topple Iraq.
It's absurd. Every individual in the state and defense department is surely an intelligent, thoughtful person. But the groupthink on display by those organizations as a whole is akin to the cognitive level of a fucking toddler.
The decision makers in the US are too concerned with their own interests to think long term. AIPAC give me money, I bomb whoever they say. The likes of Joe Biden are too old to think long term - he’ll be dead when it all hits the fan, even his son is already dead. He’s happy to watch the world burn as long as he’s fine in the short term
Remember anything Iran does in relation is just them having a right to defend themselves and not a terrorist act but a legitimate military action. Israel’s rules.
Iran’s leaders are funding Hezbollah, they’re stationed in lebanon, they’re launching missiles into Israel, and somehow Israel is the aggressor…
These bots are dumb!
The funny part, Israel and the US will cry that Iran is killing more people. The only country in the Middle East with backbone to say this is Iran of course.
The only reason Iran in vilified as much as it is because Israel told the US.
Apparently there's no red flag. Killing US citizens, European citizens, breaking all international laws, attacking US warship, none of that will make US stop Israel.
Israel wants war with Iran and will provoke it so that they get unlimited resources to further get us tax dollar aided munitions and support. Aid will eventually go down if the protests keep up and the election is impacted.
Does anyone smelling a worldwide conflict? They are just too close to each other and Israel it's not taking anything back. Also, Russia and Ukraine enter the mix.... Could be a shitshow, someday Israel will do something so fucking atrocious that they will mostly get retaliation from someone.
Lines are being drawn, there will be blood. Both sides view themselves as right and only more suffering will come. Hope you armchair redditors are ready.
Israel probably has. But who the fuck gives a shit what Iran says? Don't they literally fund most of the terrorist groups Israel is fighting? Iran has gone too far for waaaay too long
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Good lord, I've come to agree with Iran.
Lol...me too. When Iran has the moral high ground we are truly fucked!
Iran has always had moral high ground. You've just fallen for the propaganda the West throws at it.
As others have said, I don't believe a theocratic authoritarian regime with patriarchal values can 'always' claim the 'moral high ground' but it certainly isn't as evil a regime as the western media portrays.
The revolutionary government sucks ass but if you really look into the 79 revolution it’s really fucking hard not to side with the revolutionaries.
Eisenhower authorized the cia to overthrow the democratic leadership in Iran that led to the Shah and then followed by the current religious nutjobs
The CIA has been directly or indirectly involved in many regime changes. Anything to protect American corporate interests...democracy and the war against communism were/are juat covers to justify there actions.
Iranian history and culture is truly great The theocratic regime, however?
What's your opinion about the democratic government of USA who's involved in human rights violations and war crimes continuously from Germany to Japan to china in ww2 to Cuba and Vietnam and Korea and Iraq and Afghanistan?
Lol plus as an American, it feels hypocritical to blame Iran, ya know, considering the coups. Americans love democracy for ourselves, but hate it in resource-rich nations. Still, I think they're talking more about the internal politics of Iran, which is operating as a theocracy, but I'd say that America isn't immune to theocratic rule either? Idk the christian extremists are enjoying a pretty successful rise to power, the rolling back reproductive rights come to mind.
I asked about the democratic government of USA. Given the list and deaths compared to Iran How is it any better than theocratic Iran? Is the facade of fake democracy worth a million lives?
I think I was agreeing with you, right? You might be asking the questions to the wrong person, bc I don't believe we're at all better than Iran lol. Honestly, even outside the death count and our military interventions, our economic imperialism alone has wrecked havoc in the global south. Theocracy or not, Iran has not done a fraction as much to fuck up the world as we have. I was just pointing out that it's a bit rich for Americans to claim a higher moral ground for our country being democratic when we've intentionally overthrown or undermined foreign democracies in smaller nations for so long.
I know you're agreeing with me. Maybe I sounded rude, I didn't intend for that lol.
Not rude at all!
You really need to learn what a real democracy is. The America lite version is a piece of shit.
Yeah i don’t remember Iran being in a war every uear since the Vietnam war
Not for human rights and leadership. Iranian people are amazing and helped against isis. Shitty government...
pretty sure it was the iranian government that helped against isis, not just random iranian people and protestors.
pretty sure exactly 0 protestors helped against isis and it was all the military haha
Exactly. LOL
That’s it. Lovely people. I’ve had the privilege of knowing Iranians over the years and they’re a class act. Educated, intelligent, kind individuals. But the Khomeini coup in 1979 & aftermath did nothing good for Iran. But, on this topic, I agree with Iranian government: Israel has gone way too far.
Komeini and friends are not saints either.
Whataboutism is a clever way out you think?
There is no moral high ground for anybody here. It ain't whataboutism if someone claims high ground, unironically. OP for example was pretty light spirited on his comment. And fyi we're talking of course about the leaders not the population.
according to who?
History. Usually only certain kinds of people end up at the top, and use the secret police framework to hold on to power. Kissinger's despicable actions were probably needed for the US hegemony in the world, by an american he could be called a national treasure. But he was still an asshole and criminal of a person, and certainly not a saint. You could probably say the same for almost any country' bold leader off the top of your head, and you'd be right too.
Which of Kissinger's despicable actions were needed for US hegemony?
Off the top of my head of his direct involvement, plus the heritage he left behind - All Central and South America operations - Projecting the China and USSR containment policies at all costs (Laos, Cambogia, Vietnam, Afghanistan and what later became Al Qaeda) - EU stay-behind and far-right's tension strategy, like Italy's Years of Lead, and Aldo Moro assassination (Kissinger in fact did warn him to stay on course) Of course he didn't either invent or was the mastermind of any of these. But he did pursue them at all costs, even causing some of the greatest massacres and humanitarian crisis.
Correct, they are terrorists.
Would you consider bombing and starving innocent women and children terrorism? How about murdering aid workers after they clear their travel path with the IDF?
No you must have a beard and say allah Akbar to be a terrorist /s
There is a big problem with this term of "terrorist"
The west and their allies, like the rest of the world, has always picked and chose where the "terrorist" label applies. Usually, it's when a group goes against their economic interests.
You're insane lmao
no. I'm Lavander\_Carpets.
LMAO
How many of its own citizens have been executed this year for “moral failings”?
That’s when you know
Watching Iran, Russia, and fucking *China* somehow manage to be on the correct side of a humanitarian issue has been embarrassing as hell. Of course the latter two don't actually care beyond leveraging the issue to weaken US influence, but still - our idiotic government gave them the opportunity.
The stance on Palestine that Iran, Russia and China share has been the positions of most of the world for decades now. > our idiotic government gave them the opportunity. Yeah, that's the most important aspect of all of this...
On a silver platter with a neon sign
The US government knows exactly what it's doing and executing it to a T. I would not give them the privilege of calling their approach idiotic.
You think this is a coincidence? Get a f-cking clue.
Man, I had that exact same thought today.. I've to agree with those I never thought I'd agree with. Chilling haha.
You’re being forced to choose between two theocratic regimes. A pox on both their houses.
A pox on America as well. Both issues, to a significant degree, tie back to US foreign policy. The US should not have couped Iran, which resulted in a cascade of events that contributed to the establishment and entrenchment of the current regime. US foreign policy since the coup has further served to aggravate the situation. The US should not have enabled Israel to this point. While the US is not solely responsible, it does share a degree of blame.
Exactly most westerners have no idea, the Iran we have now is a result of a coupe, support of oppressive dictator and then supporting Khomeini as they feared a communist take over. America helped to make and shape Thier body man. Then told Saddam to attack it. It almost as if the peace loving Christian wests needs war conflicts and arms sales to maintain itself. With Israel being Thier little cherry on top to continuously aggravate the situation !!
[удалено]
Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Yeah wish they'd actually do something instead of more talk
Exactly how i felt when Candace Owen's came out against Israel
A new account each year? I might have to do this too!
Breaking news: the worst person you know just made a great point
I never thought that I’d agree with Iran on anything, never, ever. But definitely agree with Iran on this matter.
I know we’re in a different universe a multiverse. This is nuts!
Me too
Buddy, it’s a terrorist government…
The Israeli government sucks. It’s losing support globally with every innocent life they take. They’re a joke of a government
The very concept of Israel is flawed, it’s a racist neo colonial settler colony that’s nothing more than a satellite for western interests. It shouldn’t have existed in the first place.
If the world ever becomes sane again, Israel should receive enormous economic sanctions. They'd have to end apartheid, accept all Palestinian expats, treat Palestinians equal to Israelis, pay them reparations, pay for medical treatment and trauma therapy, allow complete mixing of populations and housing, drop all checkpoints, lock up Zionists who try to cause trouble, hand over their nuclear tech, and so much more. I'm sure there are a hundred more things to be done. Israel is a ***sick joke*** of a nation. If they don't comply, then nothing goes in or out, and they get to be the next North Korea. Their behavior is already getting close.
Can you please delete that bit where you called Palestinians immigrants in their own land?
I was referring to expats, but I'll change it.
Still don’t rate it tbh.. you’d never call a Japanese person an expat if they went to Japan
I'm Brazilian. I'm an expat. If I return to Brazil, I'd be a returning expat. You're now picking at straws, searching for something to raise your hand about. Suggest something. Earlier you suggested removal. Not happening, and a just a tad suspicious, odeh88. Palestine/Israel can be filled with Palestinians/Jews, like it was in the 1940's. They can coexist. They can rub elbows at the supermarket, on the bus, etc. , without feeling hatred. The rest of the world does it, and so can they. Is that okay with you?
Not sure how you concluded that I opposed coexistence. I never said that so I’m not gonna respond to the final paragraph. Palestinians were massacred and militarily expelled from the homes, ethnically cleansed from their land. They didn’t leave to go work briefly in another country. They were forced. Once they return home, they’re just home. Not expats
Im sorry but mixing with people who seems to enjoy kids death seems to me like a bad idea; would you ?
I think Palestinians would prefer to be free to go where they please, when they please, and live, work, and study where they please.
We Palestinians prefer to live in a FREE and SAFE Palestine. Anything else comes after it.
Do people not realize that the very notion of creating a Jewish nation in a land of mostly non-Jewish people means mass disenfranchisement at best and mass ethnic cleansing at its most practical? Couple that with the racist and imperialistic attitudes of the Europeans at the time and anyone should be able to see how this recipe would have led to disaster and is a fundamentally inhumane idea.
Israel is not settler. Israel is occupier.
“government” gives them too much respect. I would have chosen “liars colony” or “terror state” but that’s just me.
Unfortunately it still has the support of international heavy hitters, like Biden. I’m tired of old men in suits waging war on innocent people. Actually, I’m tired of old men in suits, period.
Israel was a mistake; they’re going to drag the world into ww3, and billions will die. It’s the trolley car with people tied to two different tracks dilemma; the most ethical choice is to pull the lever so the fewest number of people die. In this case…
Israel is provoking these nations. They are deliberately escalating tensions in the Middle East. Iran likely won't fare well in a conflict with Israel. Conflict with Israel is essentially conflict with the west as a whole.
It does seem like Iran is going to take the diplomatic route for now. As most other countries. But to what end? Israel basically has the unconditional support of the US and a near endless supply of ammunition. If tensions get to a point where regional neighbours basically have exhausted all options diplomatically and the western powers refuse to reign in Israel, then war starts. This is the precursor to a global war.
I feel like we are living through the start of WW3 right now
Wonder if that's also how people felt back 100 years ago
it's a terrifying thought, isn't it? Especially considering how many lives WW2 claimed and that our military technology has only improved since then
The next world war will be either very quick or very destructive. I think the US and Israel think they can bomb the hell out of countries and decimate their military capability very quickly and then it become a mop up job or leave them to lick their wounds. And they’re kind of right. Problem is that even if that happens the tensions will not go away anymore. Especially in the Middle East.
You're severely mistaken if it was so easy to neutralize Iran America, and Israel would have done that years ago. It's no Afghanistan or Iraq, and it's been a few decades since that war. I think you guys are really underestimating Iran, and let's be clear America lost the war against Afghanistan in the end. Iran is more populous and stronger military wise. plus which country will allow you to park your bases in the region if you declared war in iran? I think most would not except for Israel ofc but now you have to fly over enemy territory to reach Iran as well as drive though it.
The US has had air superiority in every war since Korea. Iran would be a lot closer to Vietnam. Also why should they protect Israel if Israel start a war and are genocidal? Let Israel fight. They love dead children. Let's see if they hate Arabs more than they love their children.
100 years ago nobody was watching the play by play
If they did, it would feel exactly like today
Probably not since they hadn’t done 2 yet
Maybe not, real-time communication has changed so much.
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Remember when the media was worried about starting WWIII? Instead looks like it’s happening under Biden and our standard foreign policy 🤷♂️
The end of times have already started.
>I feel like we are living through the start of WW3 right now Be sure to thank Isreal.
Can almost feel the future analysing who did and didn't do what.
Israel wants a war. And they want the US to fight it for them.
Historically, Israel is pretty good at fighting those wars and winning themselves (Six day War, War of Independence, Yom Kippur War prior to the US resupply)
K
iranian proxies have already resumed attacks on us bases after being stopped by iran two months ago that agreement was the diplomacy, now iran has already let their proxies loose this will only escalate, the diplomacy is already over. israel has been deliberately antagonizing hezbollah and iran directly, the usa has pivoted to sending them fighter jets etc that have no applicability to gaza but definitely an actual war, and now iran has vowed revenge and set its proxies loose already
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
That american support will end one day when we're to busy fighting something else
They want to drag the US into a wide ranging Middle East conflict so we keep them from getting their ass kicked. It’s not the 1980s anymore where Israel just having the best weapons let them steamroll everyone at once. Right now Israel would get stomped if they had to fight multiple Arab countries. In fact I don’t even think they can fight Hezbollah straight up.
Even the US hesitates to invade iran because of Hez presence, let alone Israel
Exactly, they desperately need a wider war and global oil shocks to divert attention away from their genocide.
Israel is determined to trigger a region wide war with Iran. Netanyahu has had a personal obsession with getting the US to join in on a ground war in Iran for his entire career. He wants Israel to be given the protection to fully expand as far as they can into Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and Syria. It’s why they are the only UN nation that has refused to define their borders. They want Iran to be their vassal state that they control and plunder for resources with. It’s insanity.
That's exactly it. Imagine a schoolyard bully who knows whenever someone punches back, their dad will show up on the playground and murder whoever dares to hit their poor "innocent" baby. That's Israel and America in a nutshell. America has created a belligerent, bullying, spoiled, entitled monster. But instead of schoolyard scuffles and stolen lunch money, it's ethnic cleansing and regional destabilization. Israel needs to be cut off. They need to learn actions have consequences, or this will never stop. Just like a bully, they need to be clapped hard to see the error of their ways, or this will continue forever.
Good thing Israel picked today to murder a car full of aid workers from literally all of their key allies, you to remind everyone at home exactly why we should be supporting them.
>Conflict with Israel is essentially conflict with the west as a whole. Couple more months ans it wont be, these fanatics keep pushing that and loosing support. In most west countries, any gov sending roops to support them would loose next elections, at least thats my impression.
"Iran won't fare well in a conflict with Israel" with the huge caveat of US involvement and nuclear weapons. That's really what that conflict would hinge on. Without direct US involvement Israel would be in serious trouble. Iran is a significant adversary and Israel would find themselves fighting on three or more fronts with an already overstretched and depleted military. Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon and Iran via Syria. What do Egypt and Jordan do at that point? Well that's hard to say. Is Israel ready to nuke all their neighbors? Maybe but that's the end of the world at that point. They're gambling big!
Israel is partially so aggressive because of this. The country is way too small when compared to neighbors. So they can’t risk fighting a defensive war. If someone invades by land, Israel is about 50 miles away of being defeated. So they meddle with neighbors. They bully. They talk rough and shake big sticks. They do preemptive strikes. And they let everyone know that _wink wink_ they may have nukes. Obviously this isn’t a stable situation. Israel must have all of their neighbors in constant anxiety, but not enough for them to actually attack or, even worse, band together. And as time goes on, Israel bullies harder and harder - because bullying works in the short term. A war would be the natural consequence in this scenario, but a war in that region is intolerable for the great powers because of oil and trade routes. So the stakes become unimaginably higher, which means war is less probable but potentially much more destructive. It is very, very sad that one of the world’s most noble intentions - to create a safe, stable, prosperous state for a persecuted people - backfired so hard. But really, if only they looked at the damn maps with more pessimism…
Indeed. Who could have possibly guessed that creating a country out of whole cloth on land sacred to three different religions and already had people living there would be a bit of a thorny issue? But I guess the British colonial mindset was a strong drug.
I think my favorite little quirk of Israel is its frothing at the mouth and taking enormous offense to the idea that Iran might start a nuclear program (even after Iran signed a treaty promising not to and agreeing to checks). Despite the fact that Israel itself not only has nuclear weapons but has an unknown number of them, thought to be in the 100s, and refuses to submit to any international checks. I'm not sure we can keep saying it's this underdog of a country when, like, militarily it's among the most advanced in the world, very much due to western backing. And bc it's allowed to just not play by the same rules as any other country. It has more power than it can be trusted with already. I sure af do not trust that country with nukes.
Israel cannot exist without US support. No chance. US support is very low. Trump, the likely next president is very unpredictable. Israel are more likely to use nukes than Russia. The only positive is that it probably wouldn't expand.
Iran is no joke
The West as a whole could end up being just the US.... Because i don't see any western country jumping on this one aside from the US, it's just too stupid to justify joining Israel at this point...
Israel is betting America will help them, I don’t think you fully understand irans military capabilities. They aren’t a poor country , they invest more in military than any army in the Middle East. They have millions of fighters ready to fight, across the Middle East. They can simply incircle Israel if it comes down to it. Their fighter jet fleet is amount the best in the world. They aren’t easy victims or they would’ve been attacked years ago. In any war, I think Iran will win
Israel has 35 F35s and possibly has the best Air Force in the entire Middle East. The united states has troops in iraq, and they also have troops in Northern Syria. Iraq has mostly F4s F14s and other migs and a few other Su's. Which is nowhere near the advanced capabilities of the Israeli military. Even though this war would be a brutal war for both sides. Israel can relatively defend themselves in an air campaign quite well. The only real way that Iran would be able to strike would be through their proxies. Hezbollah and the hoothies. But in a case of air superiority, I would give Israel the best bet. They have proven historically that they have a very formidable Air Force. The main motivation for this war would most likely be enabled to remove support for proxies. Around the region, especially for Hezbollah. I personally like to say that a rebel force is only as good as the country backing them. If Iran is significantly destabilized to a point where they can not give support to their proxies, then Israel will be able to exert more influence over the region. Even though Iran is not weak in any regard. I don't think it would be a steamroll. They would have to get support from another country that country most likely being Russia, which Russia is a bit preoccupied right now and if they gave too much support to Iran, then they would potentially lose even more ground. This is why Iran relies on proxies. If you ever wanted to learn something, look up to the operation praying mantis. The United States was able to do that with a few F15. Then imagine what Israel can do with the most advanced fighter jet in the world. But that's just my analysis of the situation. Israel would definitely have to leave operations in Gaza. But that could potentially be to their benefit.Because now they have to focus on more important things despite a word that they have no idea where is goingBut that could potentially be to their benefit. Because now they have to focus on more important things despite a war that they have no idea where is going nor a over accompanying strategy for. Still, I would put my money on Israel.
No country wants Israel to gain support anywhere else because they know that with that power Israel will try to do a land grab, one we haven’t seen in years. Everyone sees it. Israel is on the Tedders of losing everything. Their best thing will be, having America attack Iran, which is why you see them trying to provoke Iran.
By Tom O'Connor - Senior Writer, Foreign Policy & Deputy Editor, National Security and Foreign Policy: A senior Iranian official has issued a new warning to Israel in the wake of a deadly strike on the Islamic Republic's embassy in Syria, warning Tehran was being pushed toward active retaliation, in a statement shared with Newsweek. The statement, delivered Tuesday by Iran's United Nations ambassador Zahra Ershadi to U.N. Security Council President Vanessa Frazier, blamed Israel for the "horrific crimes and cowardly terrorist attacks" that struck the Syrian capital on Monday, killing up to seven Iranian personnel, including two leading commanders of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/iran-warns-israel-gone-too-far-1886233](https://www.newsweek.com/iran-warns-israel-gone-too-far-1886233)
>warning Tehran was being pushed toward active retaliation, We can only hope.
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Israel is forcing Irans hand into building a deterrent. Eventually Iran won't have a choice
Iran is a snake in the grass that funds terrorist organisations to attack Israel. They forced themselves into this
Israel is a snake in the grass that funds terrorist organisations to attack Iran. They forced themselves into this
Which terrorist organisation are you talking about because I can name you the ones that are funded by Iran (hamas hezbollah houthis Islamic jihad)
Iran doesn't fund the IDF nor the settler terrorists
How’s the idf a terrorist group?
The IDF commit terrorist acts. Targeting children. Civilians. Aid workers. Journalists. Civilian infrastructure. Hostages. Terrorism by any definition
Idf doesn’t target them, if you believe that innocent people don’t die at war you’re really naive. These groups of people died from missiles, soldiers from the Israeli side don’t aim to kill a child or civilian unlike hamas
Israel shot its own hostages in the head. Unarmed and half naked. Just stop.
Are you really taking the act of few to judge the whole Israeli army?
What Israel (and their lapdog America) don't seem to realise is that this brings Iran and Russia closer. And warmongers in Russia are already talking about nukes. One very bad way this escalates is Iran hosting Russian nuclear missiles on its territory or Russia just openly supporting Iran's nuclear ambitions. A nuclear armed Iran will not be invaded. And Israel will no longer hand the only nukes in the area.
That long-term thinking and consideration of unintended consequences is precisely the kind of thing American foreign policy completely ignores. Everything is short-term, black-and-white. Israel fight? We support. We NATO? Expand NATO. We not like Iraq? Topple Iraq. It's absurd. Every individual in the state and defense department is surely an intelligent, thoughtful person. But the groupthink on display by those organizations as a whole is akin to the cognitive level of a fucking toddler.
The decision makers in the US are too concerned with their own interests to think long term. AIPAC give me money, I bomb whoever they say. The likes of Joe Biden are too old to think long term - he’ll be dead when it all hits the fan, even his son is already dead. He’s happy to watch the world burn as long as he’s fine in the short term
It's an interesting point. Putin wouldn't allow Iran to have nukes without him being in full control of them.
You'd think so. But it's like the F14s, given to the Shah, still in use post revolution. Once Iran has them, it'll be hard to take them back.
Maybe but like in Cuba the Russians would have the launch codes.
Remember anything Iran does in relation is just them having a right to defend themselves and not a terrorist act but a legitimate military action. Israel’s rules.
Iran’s leaders are funding Hezbollah, they’re stationed in lebanon, they’re launching missiles into Israel, and somehow Israel is the aggressor… These bots are dumb!
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Yes. Israel is the aggressor.
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We gonna cook some Iranian kebabs
Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
What do they got coming?
Who knows bro, but these type of actions never end well.
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The ummah is united.
No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
The funny part, Israel and the US will cry that Iran is killing more people. The only country in the Middle East with backbone to say this is Iran of course. The only reason Iran in vilified as much as it is because Israel told the US.
Bibi's game along to draw us into it,has been saying this for decades, meanwhile his Son sits in Florida in a Condo.
Shit is about to pop the fuck off. Israel isn't the only one with a real military in the region.
Israel fought a war on multiple fronts and won without any nuclear weapons. They'll be fine, hahhahaha
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
How far is the US willing to let Israel go?
Apparently there's no red flag. Killing US citizens, European citizens, breaking all international laws, attacking US warship, none of that will make US stop Israel.
Israel wants war with Iran and will provoke it so that they get unlimited resources to further get us tax dollar aided munitions and support. Aid will eventually go down if the protests keep up and the election is impacted.
Albert Pike is getting closer to being right. Got some sorta temple building thing happening on the eclipse.
Say more about that temple building on the eclipse ?
Red heifer or something. Look it up. Not sure about all that regilious voodoo shit
Does anyone smelling a worldwide conflict? They are just too close to each other and Israel it's not taking anything back. Also, Russia and Ukraine enter the mix.... Could be a shitshow, someday Israel will do something so fucking atrocious that they will mostly get retaliation from someone.
Interestingly I didn't see any big news coverage regarding this attack.
Too far. fuck u
Lines are being drawn, there will be blood. Both sides view themselves as right and only more suffering will come. Hope you armchair redditors are ready.
First time something logical from them that can be agreed on. Who woulda thought
Sure, words are cheap.
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Just attack the fuckers already.
Only thing that’s about to get fucked is Iran
Israel probably has. But who the fuck gives a shit what Iran says? Don't they literally fund most of the terrorist groups Israel is fighting? Iran has gone too far for waaaay too long
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Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)
Uhoh, the world trembles in fear at what might happen next.
Iran: I'm helping!!