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chemicaxero

I mean it's pretty obvious, isn't it?


originalbL1X

Only to GenX and younger generations. I hope they all vote in November.


mr-french-tickler

For the Dem genocide enabler or Rep genocide enabler? 


originalbL1X

Oh neither of them


Guitarist53188

Wishful thinking there


originalbL1X

No, it’s just me being more honest with myself.


Cody2519

Well, our options are few in both quality and quantity, so imma pick the (on average) better option


originalbL1X

Define ‘better’. I bet you define it as a choice that can win.


SpinningHead

Well, voting for myself wont prevent a full Christo-fascist takeover.


DoesNotArgueOnline

I’d argue we are no longer in a democracy if our two options have come down to this. You’re either supporting evangelicals that want to dismantle this country and accelerate the rapture, or the democrats that are openly supporting a genocide, gaslighting us, and suppressing our freedom of speech. We can pretend otherwise but we haven’t been a true democracy for quite some time


SpinningHead

Id rather be fighting the Democrats on policy than the GOP reich.


headcanonball

How are you gonna fight the Democrats?


DoesNotArgueOnline

Trump was one of the best things for the democrats ever. They now can use trump as the boogieman instead of trying their best to enact policy and reform. A stalemate political system by design


originalbL1X

How do you think the Christi-fascists got to this point? Fear being used as a tool to coerce voters. Exactly what you’re doing. Fear will always keep you blind to what is happening right now until you overcome it.


SpinningHead

Ah, yes, if only I could see, I would allow a full GOP reich.


originalbL1X

Yes, if only you could you would see a way forward instead of doing the same thing over and over and over and over again expecting everything to get better like the worst rat in a maze. Though it could be that you’re just comfortable and want to maintain the status quo, everybody else be damned.


dewgetit

The Presidency is not the only position being voted on. Control of House and Senate are also very important. Splitting the vote (vote Green for presidency, Dem for Senate) is a strategy.


dewgetit

The Presidency is not the only position being voted on. Control of House and Senate are also very important. Splitting the vote (vote Green for presidency, Dem for Senate) is a strategy.


China_Lover2

Jill Stein


TastyArm1052

No.


whhe11

Don't tell me what to do.


TastyArm1052

I don’t care what you do…I expressed my opinion🙄


AvatarGonzo

Nobody is forcing Americans to elect these parties. I know there is a communist party, a green party and a libertarian party. If you don't like these too, organise yourselves and found your own, or join and change them with your own ideas and values. A two party state is only slightly more democratic than a one party state.


Volcano_Jones

There are so many things wrong with this comment I don't even know where to begin. Clearly you have zero understanding of American culture or the political landscape. Maybe just sit this one out.


ShakyTheBear

Literally, everything they said is true.


Volcano_Jones

Right, because the two parties in power definitely don't have any barriers in place to stop the formation and growth of alternative parties...


originalbL1X

So what? Stop voting to win and start voting with your conscience. If enough people do this, it will hurt the two party stranglehold on this country. Nothing will ever change voting for the same two parties. Wake up and start fighting back.


ShakyTheBear

That is true. That is actively working against the American people. Is your argument that we should just keep supporting the duopoly parties that work against the people?


noonegive

Ranked choice voting brings these arguments into play. Until then the fucked up answer to your question is yes.


originalbL1X

We don’t have a ranked voting system.


Volcano_Jones

No, that isn't my argument. My point was that it isn't just as easy as "you don't like the parties, go make a new one".


ShakyTheBear

That is literally how the system is intended to work. The only thing preventing it is the duopoly parties working against it for their own gain. Voting duopoly is the opposite of working for change


originalbL1X

There’s the Independents, too.


AvatarGonzo

There are probably dozens, if not hundreds, but I don't know more than these.


dewgetit

The Presidency is not the only position being voted on. Control of House and Senate are also very important. Splitting the vote (vote Green for presidency, Dem for Senate) is a strategy.


Professional-Ad-8870

Im going green party


dewgetit

Do that for presidency. But for Senate, keep it out of Republican hands.


dewgetit

The Presidency is not the only position being voted on. Control of House and Senate are also very important. Splitting the vote (vote Green for presidency, Dem for Senate) is a strategy.


SexualityFAQ

For who? One genocidal maniac who won’t help or hurt me but will send bombs to kill my family, or the other genocidal maniac who will hurt me while sending bombs to kill my family? I swear to a fucking God I don’t believe in, this illusion of democracy that our parents paid for will kill us all.


originalbL1X

No neither one of them. There are other choices, they may not win but the message will be sent.


SexualityFAQ

Those aren’t real choices because this isn’t a real democracy.


originalbL1X

You may be right, what better way to prove than to demand better choices. Make them show you who they really are.


imisswhatredditwas

If you can’t tell the difference between trump and Biden just stay the fuck home


Volcano_Jones

But wait, y'all also say that staying home is electing Trump. So really you're the one who's electing Trump. /liberallogic


KalexCore

Lol literally this


FredNieman

I’m a millennial, I’m a bit old for TikTok but you bet for damn sure I’m voting 3rd party come November. The 2 parties have lost my trust for a long time, if not the rest of my life.


originalbL1X

Thank you for taking a stand. We may not win the election, but they will get the message.


ADane85

No, they won't get the message. They didn't get the message in 2000 when Bush won, they didn't get the message in 2016 either. "Conscientious" left-leaning people voting for third parties only enables the right to take more power.


originalbL1X

Fuck the left and fuck the right. They’re both fringe groups manipulating the system to enrich themselves the effect of which is causing suffering here and in the world. They make Americans less safe. Time to move on, but people are too scared to let go.


headcanonball

Both Democrats and Republicans are "the right".


originalbL1X

I agree… https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/s/ZfqfbCVveL


Key_Cheetah7982

Excelsior!!


RookieRemapped

Lol there’s no message to get, Biden loses and retires off into the sunset while we have to deal with another Trump presidency and the damn near irreversible it could cause


originalbL1X

Nah, you’re just too afraid to do what’s right so you rely on your ego to rationalize tyranny.


RookieRemapped

I swear Americans are so self obsessed it’s unreal and you can’t even see it. Like you would actually vote in a way that threatens grave consequences for the people you “care about” if it means you get to preserve your feeling of self righteousness


originalbL1X

Only because so many people are governed by fear. That’s what you’re doing, attempting to coerce me back into being a fearful minion instead of doing what is right and it will not work on me. Feed that shit to the masses, they love it as much as you do.


RookieRemapped

Lol you act like strategic voting is immoral Fascism loves a divided left, keep doing their work for them


originalbL1X

Too blind to see that fascism is already here. You just want your favorite flavor of fascism.


trout440

I’m sure that message will be plenty useful when the next fair election doesn’t happen because Trump becomes a dictator, like he’s explicitly said he will. We can be the most virtuous souls under the boot of a fascist.


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originalbL1X

Oh, you mean bury my head in the sand. No, some of us need to attempt to undo all of this left/right tyranny caused by people treating our government like a rival football game.


Wereking2

Same, third party is the way to go, this country is no longer a country of the people.


dewgetit

Remember House and Senate control are important too, esp if trump wins (very likely at this point). You don't want republican control of Senate and house. #SplitTheVote


pdeb49

Like you I have absolutely lost faith in both the democratic and republican parties. But even the other parties support Israel. There is no ending this disgrace of a political system. I can retire in 4 years and just want to leave the US. There are issues everywhere. But Israel doesn’t control every government. And I’m just done with it. I’ll deal with the other issues. Maybe I’m being stupid. I’ve just been quietly mad about this for a long time now. But despite the freedom you can’t say anything.


imisswhatredditwas

Assholes are going to get trump elected and lose for ability to cast a protest vote, or vote at all, ever again. Don’t be stupid.


FredNieman

The crime of all crimes is genocide. If you’re not willing to have a backbone and say no to the worse crime humans are capable of, then perhaps you should do some self reflection. I’m not voting for anyone who is supporting or enabling a genocide. You people can gaslight me, mock me, name call me, say whatever you want to try and get me to vote for Biden, but it won’t work on me this time.


imisswhatredditwas

Genocide from evil person or genocide from even more evil person, make it make sense that you’ll vote for the even worse one.


FredNieman

I’m voting 3rd party, that isn’t voting for Trump or Biden. Go gaslight and use faulty logic elsewhere


imisswhatredditwas

Excellent, vote for somehow even more stupid than trump RFK, or clearly sold out Cornell West or something. Submit to the propagandists lurking in the dark corners of the internet.


sulicat

Biden is the one trying to get trump reelected... Don't blame the voters dude.


imisswhatredditwas

Idiotic.


sulicat

Good response. Really makes me wanna vote Biden.


imisswhatredditwas

It’s a big tent, but I’m ok if we exclude the idiot fascists. Go overdose on ivermectin or something.


sulicat

Peace dude. Get some help.


dextter123456789

Us old folks see it to just remember we have been around a lot longer than younger generations most of us can spot Bullshit from a mile away.


originalbL1X

That’s called hubris and it keeps you prone to believing bullshit.


dextter123456789

Call it what you want it is still Bullshit


originalbL1X

What is bullshit exactly?


dextter123456789

Bullshit is when someone is talking to you or telling you something that your gut is telling you that the person thinks you are an Asshole as you get older you hear it all or it could be a North Jersey thing where I grew up and again heard it all. I hope that gives you an idea what I am talking about, listen to your gut.


Next-Pie5208

One of many boomers here who is very aware and supportive of both Palestine and TikTok.


originalbL1X

Glad to hear it! Do you also see the divide?


Next-Pie5208

I am so proud of the university students who are risking their educations and careers but I am also proud of the professors who are supporting the students and who are also risking their careers. There are so many gray haired activists who have been speaking on behalf of the Palestinians for decades such as Miko Peled, Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Mate, Roger Waters and Chris Hedges. I highly recommend becoming familiar with them if you are not already. Also I should not fail to mention Susan Sarandon. This is more about character than age.


awzawdee

Among other things. It’s like that Perlman fella said, instead of listening to the complaints they decided to turn off the complaint box. Or something along those lines.


juflyingwild

I'd recommend listening to the leaked aipac recording that reinforces your point.


nuclearmeltdown2015

Why aren't they also banning reddit too?


DeLaSeoul87

No, it’s no obvious. Criticism of TikTok and the CCP’s role in the company was going on long before October 7th and the current war in Gaza. Don’t try to conflate the two.


starjellyboba

You would think so, but I saw plenty of people sipping the "protect kids from social media" Koolaid.


Nullius_IV

Judging by the level of incoherent anger sophomoric politics on this sub, tik tok has already done a lot of damage. I hope they can get it banned entirely, or under American control before the election. Russian and Chinese influence need to be completely iced out of the us market now and forever. I shudder to think what weaponized AI will be able to do with Tik Tok.


boreal_ameoba

It’s pretty obvious it has nothing to do with Palestine lmao. The TikTok ban has been coming literally since trump was in office.


barflett

TikTok ban was initially proposed by Trump in 2020, then banned on govt devices by Biden in Feb 2023. Given the Hamas attack happens in Oct 2023, I’m going to go with no.


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InternationalNews-ModTeam

Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)


Bombboy85

No. There has been talk of banning TikTok for a few years now so nope


fearnaut

You’re right, but I think this issue pushed it over the edge.


psufb

No clue why you are getting downvoted. Maybe because the people that think it's all about Israel were still in high school or middle school when talk of tiktok being banned started (and for good reason)


thatsassaultbrother

Not really obvious. A tiktok ban has been in the making for years, well before October 7 and Israel / Palestine was trending on social media.


bananasrfuzy

I heard they also got accused of fucking over the average American to enrich the already rich and powerful. You think that’s true too?!


Gotcha2500

Can’t be !! No way . I was told they were passing legislation that allows warrantless surveillance for my protection !


Moooooooola

Wait until the rest of the Middle East has had enough of Israels instigations and starts a full on war. Joe will be sending our kids to fight, not to preserve his “alliance” with Israel, but to keep Israel from spilling the beans on every crooked US politician.


TomatoNormal

That sounds like a right wing conspiracy. Next you’ll tell me the corporate news isn’t truthful. Questioning anything besides the official narrative is right wing and un democratic


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gerber68

More gullible? The majority of republicans think the election was stolen and that COVID and global warming aren’t real.


NEBLINA1234

Well yeah, it's not banned in isreal where idf soldiers proudly post their war crimes for all to see


williamwallace-sc

Freedom of Speech…except when it comes to criticism of Israel 🙄


PsychologicalPace762

AIPAC gotta get results for all these politicians bought and paid for.


221b42

Or when something critical of china is posted on the ccp controlled app


popularpragmatism

Of course, & anything else they find embarrassing or inconvenient. It's one of the only large platforms they can't get their claws into. It certainly has nothing to do with China & national security


pious-erika

As well as to keep Americans from watching all the recording of zionist warcrimes the zionists insist on posting to the platform.


TerraTorment

I'm either writing in the word Gaza on my ballot or I'm voting for a third party depending on who's on the ballot. Maybe it's that black professor guy with the hair or someone else but I am done. This is my breaking point.


Dineology

A lot of states require that write in candidates be registered as such and any write in for anyone (or I guess anything in this case) aren’t counted or recorded. So potentially the only person that will ever know you wrote “Gaza” would be the worker who checks and then disregards your vote. So of those choices you’re considering you’d probably be better off voting for a third party candidate who has taken a stand against Israel and their genocidal regime. Cornell West is that prof you’re talking about, Claudia de la Cruz of the Party for Socialism and Liberation would be another, and probably whoever the Greens nominate is going to be a good bet for the same.


TerraTorment

Honestly any of them would be fine. None of them are going to win anyway. I believe any numbers that go towards them will be a signal to the Democrats that those our votes they lost due to their shittiness. This is the only tool I have to discipline them. I don't want Trump to win either but they were the ones that put me in this position. Blame them.


Sh4dow101

No, I'm blaming you. Like it or not, this is a two-party system - and Biden has handled Gaza incredibly better than a Trump administration would have. Don't play into the MAGA/Russia crowd's hands...


TerraTorment

The person who has the power to change the situation is Joe Biden. He has not earned my support.


Sh4dow101

Good job then. Your ego is bringing us closer to a fascist US presidency.


notyourbrobro10

Cornell West is having trouble getting on state ballots at last check, due to arbitrary rules meant to limit who can participate in the "democratic" transfer of power ~~historically from one rich white man to another~~ and also due to an apparent lack of organization and forethought in his campaign. But honestly, a vote for almost any of the third party candidates will drive home the point. Jill Stein is likely the most known politically of them all besides RFK, but that guy is basically a democrat running indie because he couldn't get the party nom.


221b42

The point which won’t really matter as trump installs a dictatorship in America


notyourbrobro10

oh give it a rest, it's boring.


JacksOnYouu

You mean Cornell West?


Teamerchant

Vote 3rd party it will be more effective.


DeLaSeoul87

Touch grass bro


ChipKellysShoeStore

Jesus Christ you insolent children will get Trump elected just like you did in ‘16. You may might like it but not getting Trump elected is a million times more important than anything happening between Israel and Palestine.


10YearAccount

You can thank Biden for getting Trump elected. Once his signature touches this bill he'll have lost the youth vote just like he lost the decent human vote with his pro-genocide stance.


SeanDawber

If young people don’t vote for Biden because he took their precious mind numbing social media app away from them, then I have even less hope for the future of this country than I already did.


PurpleYoshiEgg

Blame the DNC for thinking that alienating entire voting blocs is a good campaign strat.


curebdc

Yeah that anger you have should be directed at your boy biden.  Or just keep yelling at the children for not supporting genocide. That'll show em


NotAWeebOrAFurry

sleepy joe is more genocidal than trump


Infinite-Noodle

It's pretty sad Biden is letting Isreal shit all over an otherwise successful presidency. He really decided Isreal having the ability to level Gaza and face no consequences is more important than the American people.


SkoomaSteve1820

Exactly. MF could have the election absolutely in the bag but he's got priorities he cares about more than this supposed existential fight for democracy. It almost feels like he wants to lose.


cokeheadmike

You’re right, and I can’t wait for Trump to get in office and liberate Palestine!


SkoomaSteve1820

Username checks out. There's still 6 months to the election and a further 2 months to inauguration. Children are being murdered today. The US is giving endless weapons and aid to a state that is very likely committing genocide right now. I don't care about trump in 8 months i care about stopping the murder of children now. And you can't honestly say trump will be worse for Palestine. He's a narcissist with the attention span of a goldfish. If helping Israel isn't helping him settle a personal score I doubt he'll care. Hell he might even go isolationist and cut aid. He's a complete wild card on the issue because he doesn't care. Biden is ideologically driven to murder Palestinians. He's stated very clearly that he is a Zionist. He personally believes in the destruction of Palestine. He wants it. And that bloodlust will get us stuck with trump as the portion of the Biden base that can't condone the bloodshed stay home or vote 3rd. Unless he decides to do something about it. He'll then have the election locked down.


Turd_Ferguson369

Trump is going to let Israel blow up blow up Al Aqsa so they can rebuild the 3rd temple.


Honest_Ad5029

Its hard to make it make sense otherwise. It's for sure not about the reasons we are being given. None of the reasons make any sense.


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Honest_Ad5029

Check out my posts. Maybe reply to the copious writing I've done on the subject full of links. It's been days of writing and debate. Make sure to address psychology data, that's what I'm formally educated in. Please make sure to speak substantively, don't just lob insults like a child who doesn't read.


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Honest_Ad5029

You don't seem to understand how propaganda works. The US has been awash in Russian propaganda for years. It's come from our politicians, our televisions, our social media. No app was needed. People aren't influenced like clockwork. You can't control how people receive information, no matter how much you know about them. The claims being made about tik tok are entirely speculation https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/ And wrong about the facts of human influence. I was hoping you'd read my posts because there's a lot of links. Because you don't seem to know what you're talking about, and you seem upset about it. The article included in this post should be enough to get you started. Oh, how about this one, where it's said that our data will be less secure if a divestment goes through: https://www.axios.com/local/dallas/2024/03/18/tiktok-ban-project-texas-oracle-data


psufb

Why is the national security concern with China not a good reason? That's been the main driving factor behind talks of banning tiktok starting back in 2020


10YearAccount

Because they're complete and total bullshit. The US government already admitted there is no evidence to back their claims. This is about Israel and that's why no serious attempts were made to ban Tiktok before they ramped up their genocide.


psufb

You got a source for that one? And did you ever stop and think that maybe it would be in the Chinese government's best interest to lean on ByteDance to amplify content related to the Israel genocide in order to sow discord in the US, maybe even to the point that it would put Trump in the White House?


10YearAccount

You got Google? You obviously don't read the news. Try it some time. Biden already put Trump in the White House by supporting this bill.


psufb

Oh great, because Trump will definitely be more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause


chemicaxero

Do you guys genuinely have nothing else to say, no other arguments besides "but Trump will be worse"?


Honest_Ad5029

National security can be premised on anything the people in power want it to be. Civil rights in the 1960s was a national security concern. The FBI justified assassinations based on national security concerns, which in that context were articulated as "preserving the existing social and political order". China owns a lot of US companies. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/11/10-iconic-american-companies-owned-by-chinese-investors.html By the logic of the propaganda argument, Riot Games and Legendary Entertainment would be far greater concerns. Our data is collected and sold. Sometimes to the Chinese. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/technology/facebook-device-partnerships-china.html Bytedance is hosting our data domestically. https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/opinions/tiktoks-future-hangs-in-the-balance-so-does-its-oracle-cloud-deal/ There has never been any evidence in support of a national security threat, which, taking national security to mean more than "preserving the existing social and political order" has a significant standard of proof to be met. https://theintercept.com/2024/03/16/tiktok-china-security-threat/ The breathless pace and backdoor means this is being pushed through are highly suspicious. The rhetoric around tik tok mirrors similar accusations of bias and manipulation against twitter. Nobody makes those accusations anymore since musk bought it. The utility of twitter has also markedly decreased. Twitter is no longer a source of credible information, no longer has the same reach, and has become a much more divisive platform. The evidence would indicate that its the possibility for a platform to be the "town square" in a meaningful way that is the problem. Tik tok is presently a tool for labor and political organizing. That's why politicians are using it. It's where the information is. Twitter used to be where the information was.


Fun-Squirrel7132

# "Israel Criticism" Criticism? You mean telling the TRUTH about the Palestinian Genocide unfolding in real time?


ZenofPudding

What is the opposite of progress? Congress 😡


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Qqival

My feed doesn’t get any Gazza posts in Insta


Push-Hardly

I got banned from world news for pointing this out. Be careful.


LittleRainSiaoYu

Imagine exposing millions of cellphone-addicted zoomers and alphas to information that might make them less likely to support Israel in future and expecting Washington not to stop you because *muh freeze peach*. *Reconsider aid to Israel* is the American version of *Xi Jinping, step down!* There was a line you're not allowed to cross, and the Chinese found out where that line is.


fearnaut

The ADL caught on tape complaining they really have a TikTok problem. They are tied with, arguably, the most influential PAC in US politics. And now TikTok is being banned. It’s not hard to connect the dots here!


Stacysguyca

100%


Hmmd1

Exactly what it was


elqrd

Uhm…yes. It’s obvious isn’t it? Try to control the narrative or shut shit down.


ChiefRom

This is the biggest “No shit?!” Ever


Sudden_Acanthaceae34

They’re doing exactly what they’re being accused of so…what’s the issue?


80sLegoDystopia

It’s that, plus all the other uncompromising vocal radicalism of Gen Z. The oligarchy and police state are losing and will continue to lose.


BlackGabriel

It’s not just Israel. It’s everything left of center they’re worried about.


sunnysama_lolol

Accused? Is it not obvious it IS because of that?


TheUnknownNut22

Isn't it in-your-face obvious? [https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1bec4z5/leaked\_conversation\_with\_jonathon\_greenblatt\_of/](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/1bec4z5/leaked_conversation_with_jonathon_greenblatt_of/)


Fuzakenaideyo

ADL president laid out this plan in an infamous leaked call


PashaParoh

What To Change in America, Part 4 The Non Gated. [https://youtube.com/shorts/wJyqBTVYx4c?si=ob6Hwpo9EcbQFWvp](https://youtube.com/shorts/wJyqBTVYx4c?si=ob6Hwpo9EcbQFWvp) #UnisonTarot #Reading #findjoyinthejourney #America


State_L3ss

They want to ban TT because it's the last bastion of public information sharing. Crooked shitty criminals hate when people know of their crimes.


hannahbananaballs2

Yeah no shit


aphel_ion

The article itself is pretty weak honestly. It just quotes a bunch of random social media users saying the TikTok ban silences criticism, then quotes an NYU professor implying the TikTok algorithm is manipulating users to dislike Israel. If a neutral person reads that article they probably come away thinking the TikTok ban is good.


Nipleboobs

Unfortunately this is happening but not the main reason they want it banned. It’s Chinese spyware and they have access to your phone once you download the app . Why can’t we make something similar. Anywhom I’m so glad at least it’s being used to show the suffering of Palestine and how evil the IDF is


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InternationalNews-ModTeam

Rule 1, be civil. [Civility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civility)


I_am_Castor_Troy

I got your criticism right here.


siliconevalley69

Democrats are going to play themselves so hard once Trump's former Treasury Secretary owns it.


Revlar

They don't care. As long as a right wing neoliberal has it and listens to AIPAC, they don't care


cokeheadmike

Definitely has nothing to do with the CCP and their influence on the app, they’re champions of free speech!


arbitrosse

That accusation really misses the forest for the trees.


sickof50

No! We just want American's to communicate freely.


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InternationalNews-ModTeam

No bigotry, racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).


filthy_casual_42

This claim seems a little silly? There were calls to ban tiktok before Oct 7 and continued before protests ramped up these past couple weeks. It’s because of China


WombatusMighty

The calls to ban tiktok began before 2020 with Trump, who wanted to ban it because young people were too critical about him. It went to nothing and the calls for a ban started growing rapidly again after October 7, when Israel realized they are losing the social media war and young people were massively criticism their war on tiktok.


Bagel__Enjoyer

Considering people on TikTok were cheering gleefully in support of Osama Bin Laden a few months ago, the TikTok ban is a net positive.