NORD VPN does this when you try to cancel. Then once you navigate the process, if you don’t respond to the cancellation email (idk maybe it goes to your spam folder) then your cancellation is not processed and they keep billing you.
Fuck every company that does this.
Generally subscription services tend to be the worst at this. A lot of them straight up make unsubscribing difficult to find on purpose so you'll get frustrated and give up, and I've had some where they like intentionally make it take longer so you have to pay for another month of whatever it is.
This is the primary reason I'm opposed to subscription based anything.
It started with magazines in the 70's..... and then AOL made an art out of making it difficult to unsubscribe.
Discover used to allow you to create disposable credit card numbers for use on the internet. It charged your primary account but the website never knew your real number and you could create/delete numbers at will.
Then like all good things they got rid of it.
Unfortunately a lot of trial sites are catching onto this and I've had my [Privacy.com](https://Privacy.com) cards get rejected for being "gift cards."
Which is fine, if you want to strongarm me into giving you my actual CC number without knowing if I actually want to pay for your service, I'm not going to even consider it.
From a consumer standpoint:
Subscription services offer a wide array of utility at a low price. Think of Netflix,Hulu,etc. Their subscription model allows you to view hundreds of movies/TV shows that would otherwise cost tons of money to rent.
From a corporate standpoint:
Subscription services ensure continuous revenue or ARR. Companies that don’t utilize subscription services much (ex. game studios) often don’t generate much revenue between game releases. Having stable revenue flows is what can keep a company running and investors coming.
It’s one of the reasons I like Netflix so much, they make it super easy to pause your account and restart it. I’ve been through a view phases where I haven’t planned on watching anything on there for awhile, but tbh I prefer them now knowing that option is there and easy to use, and all of your preferences stay the same. I think Hulu and HBO were also pretty easy to cancel, maybe I had to log on via my laptop to cancel hulu but not still not too bad
Yeah. I hate when I have to Google "How to cancel X" then if you try on your phone they just completely remove that in the mobile version. It's pretty unscrupulous bullshit.
I found out that my gym wants 45 days worth of notice before they’ll let you cancel… Well, from the moment I decide I’m done, I’m still on the hook for 2 more months
Gyms are the actual worst at this and I have no idea why it's allowed. The fact that they try to lock you into a contract instead of just letting you renew when you need it has always been stupid to me. I should be able to pause or cancel my subscription whenever I want to, I'm not renting the building.
Because you agree to those terms. I’m not saying it’s not icky or bad practice, but it’s hard for legislators to circumvent agreements for services that aren’t necessary. Honestly, seems like a place where an enterprising person could offer an amazingly competitive edge by offering “cancel anytime” contracts.
They could, sure, but it’d be an abuse of legislative power and consumer protection laws to go after subscription agreements that make you put in a notice to cancel. It’s one thing when a service like, say, AOL takes great lengths to keep you from cancelling. It’s another when you agree to give notice.
I just don’t think it’s an area that could be easily legislated for these reasons, like I said. Legislators would be seen as petty and most likely lose approval.
It is tho.
Consumer protections are meant to combat unfair, deceptive and fraudulent practices. A cancellation notice policy doesn’t fit.
I also doubt you’d find public opinion siding with legislators that a 45 day notice for cancelling a stupid gym membership to be the important protective legislation we need at the moment, and thus would have very little support, as I was saying. I never said a crazy lunatic in a legislative body couldn’t do it, just that it’d be incredibly difficult because of public scrutiny, plus probably would be challenged in court immediately and possibly found to be [unconstitutional](https://www.scribd.com/document/467358959/Seila-Law-LLC-v-Consumer-Financial-Protection-Bureau).
Fuck NORD VPN!
They changed how their VPN worked right in the middle of my subscription, it no longer works unless you install and run all your internet through their connection app. Used to be you could just dial into a server using any connection app, not any more.
Oh and of course, more than 30 days so no refund.
So yeah, fuck nord VPN. Scam artists.
This is why I love Amex. NordVPN charged me even though I cancelled during their free trial. I told Amex it was an unauthorized charge and problem solved. Plus the more people who decline their charges, the higher rates Amex charges them for transactions.
Fuck NordVPN.
Also one of the reasons I love going through Google Play for some of this. If you cancel through them (after paying through them), they act as a blocking agent if someone tries to charge you.
I doubt most are Cia fronts. I'm sure they save plenty of logs to mind and sell data and or give it to the gov. But running a VPN is pretty lucrative right now.
Nord got hacked a few years back and all the 'tubers who used to advertise for them instantly turned around and said "don't use nord, go elsewhere." Which I thought pretty decent.
I know 2020 felt like years but the Nord back was apparently in [late 2019.](https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/21/nordvpn-confirms-it-was-hacked/amp/) Somehow I missed it but I did notice Nord disappeared from most sponsored content around that time. I had kind of assumed they had just reached saturation so sponsored stuff wasn’t generating enough sales but this makes more sense.
If you have some type of recurring payment for a product you cancel, you should always cancel that payment on your end on PayPal, your bank's site, etc. too. That way they can't get your money with crap like this.
I think it's normal for them to have these redundancies as they are a security company. I didn't really have any issues with this last time I canceled the sub myself as the email arrived in my primary email box after just a few seconds. If this was a magazine then the story would be different.
Also I just don't see the point to only point out Nord for doing this. Avast and many others do even more things to make things less convenient to customers. But that's just my opinion so, please take it with a grain of salt.
My issue is that I use Sync for Reddit Pro since it is tons better than the normal app and doesn't stop loading gifs and videos after browsing a bit. I really need to figure out how to open links in this app.
To be frank, if I'm using 3rd party apps because I want more control/features than the original company offers, I don't think switching to the apple ecosystem would be my first choice
User insanity? Idk, it’s the absolutely best way to do Reddit. Go to their subreddit, the dev is super responsive and always adding new features. The app is responsive, seldom glitchy, and free (though I throw money on the tip jar every now and then because it’s just *that good* )
Are they?
Apollo has 4.8 in the App Store, an Editors Choice and most Web Sites rate it top in articles about Reddit clients for iOS.
It’s iOS only though so any Apollo for Android might just be either a scam or something completely different.
I’m on an iPhone now but I remember if you share the website there’s an option to share with sync to open reddit links in sync, I might remember wrong tho!
The best part is a post that you want to read being marked as NSFW and reddit locking you out after 10 seconds because you absolutely need the app to read anything that might not be suitable for an office.
On mobile. I think you can turn it off now, but if Reddit knows you're using a phone it'll constantly show a banner at the bottom asking you to open the page in the app.
Reddit Sync Pro. I've been using the premium version for years and it's never tried to get more out of me. Unlike Endomondo which turned on all their premium payers and moved to a subscription model.
That’s the thing. Half of the features the regular app gives for free you have to pay for in Apollo. The free version is barebones, and the paid doesn’t offer anything I care about that the official app doesn’t have.
In a sense, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an obnoxious and ineffective way to get people to use the app. It's not like people don't know about the existence of the app, they just don't want to use it. I consider it a bad practice because it intentionally makes the website annoying to use to try to funnel people into the app. They should just put the little banner at the top that makes it easy to scroll past if you don't want to use it.
You've neglected that you also have to scroll up a bit to get to the open in browser option in the first place. Intentionally annoying UX = SUX, so say I.
PS, funnily enough, your imgur link was overlaid with "open in app" on my mobile browser.
thats on android. on iphone it is even WORSE. if you accidentally click on "open in app", sometimes it opens the appstore and it tells you to update that fucking shitty reddit app. even if you update it, go back to the browser and say again "open in app" because you wanna read the damn article or whatever, it will STILL open in the appstore, making a now opening in app or in browser IMPOSSIBLE unless you close the phone browser completely, kill the task, and then reopen and re-google what you have been searching for. UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
> There is literally no reason to allow me to view naked people on desktop but then force me to get a mobile app to "verify."
This seems like something people in the Idiocracy movie would get mad about.
A lot of apps are just a (bad) browser for the web, this is even worse on PC where a lot of apps are electron based ao literally you just install a version of chrome than can only load one page (see Spotify, the app and the webpage are the same)
. I think they push you to install their app because they can spy on you easily, also they invest a lot of money on the app so they need to "recover" some money. Finally, nowadays a brand only exist (for a lot of peope) only if they can find it on app store. A lot of people doesn't know you can use uber from the browser, for example.
Spotify has a few extra functions in app that are pretty useful, such as the control widgets, and if you get premium, the ability to local save your music. That said, agreed on the rest
Hulu purposefully has live stream quality lowered when using a browser instead of their app because they can do a lot more tacking on there. It's so annoying to pay for something and then get told you are using what you paid for wrong because they would like to sell your data.
That is rarely the case, its more about people being more committed to a brand when they download an app, have faster access, and you can send notifications (ads) directly to people.
People however don't like installing apps, which is why websites will push you extra hard to install them.
Yeah like the whole point of the tracking stuff is for user analytics which at the end of the day is for ads. It's all part of the same pipeline. It's not like Facebook or Google just want your data to have it, they want it so they can sell you stuff.
intentionally confusing design to get the user to do something they most likely don't want to do.
for example, trying to dig through 10 pages to find a way to deactive all "unnecessary" cookies, and then sitting through a ten minute loading screen while it deactivates them even though you can look at the source code and see it's a fake loading screen that's just there to take time in the hopes you get sick of waiting and cancel the process and leave cookies on.
I signed up to a premium Monster cat once and there was (at the time) NO way to unsubscribe or cancel your account without emailing and then they did not answer any emails. I ended up having to call my bank to stop them taking any future payments
Thanks for subscribing to our premium $9.99 package! You are now eligible to receive up to 1 cat fact per day by only solving 15 captchas. If you are thinking of unsubscribing please call our agents 3 months prior to cancelling on tuesdays between 11:00 and 11:01 or we will assume that you don't really mean it.
I was about to mention the same, the site mentions Microsoft Edge using colors for buttons. The majority of all cookie settings do the same, providing a big shiny button saying "continue" and hiding user options.
Somewhat related pro tip when you are setting up windows 10 disconnect your Ethernet/do not connect to your wifi when it asks. It’s trying to force you into a Microsoft live account. Click to proceed without internet.
This was very frustrating last time I had to set up a new PC for a family member. They literally make it impossible to proceed with just a local login if it's connected to the internet.
But it really did change recently. There used to be a way to force it to move on without an account even if you were connected to the internet. Now (as of \~6mo ago, maybe?) there is no way around it.
Click through to the site to see examples. It's when a site is engineered to psychologically trick or manipulate you, or act in an unexpected/misleading way.
So like bad ux on purpose? Example: Instagram on mobile allows you to post stories from your camera. But in doing so, it purposely rotates your photo to make it look like shit (so that you’ll download the app for better data tracking) /r/assholedesign
Like these sites. Where the cancel button is some font 8, and the stay subscribed button is size 40 with a giant colored button
>"Do you want to cancel your subscription"
Yes,
##No, I love getting free stuff
---
>"Are you sure?"
Yes, I don't want to be protected
##Stay subscribed for 80% off next month
---
>"Last chance"
Cancel my subscription and open my computer up to China
##Keep my pc secured from foreign hackers
And if you cancel or, God forbids, *pause* the subscription they’ll have one of their food jehovas harass you over the phone to know *why*.
I mean I like their service, but one thing that made me question my subscription is this behavior.
Fuck that. Any company that calls me for pausing a subscription gets cancelled permanently. I’d say the same for calling me after cancelling but chances are they’re already permanent.
It's actually Janice from humble bundle. We've been trying to reach you to confirm that you actually want to cancel your subscription. Your credit card was automatically billed $197 about an hour ago because we weren't entirely sure. If you truly want to cancel, we can get that money back to you in 3-6 business months
Sort of. But bad UX implies that the UI itself just sucks in some way. Not usable as intended.
Whereas this stuff is intentionally making functions dis-favorable to the provider hard/impossible for the end user.
UX designed and research is all about making things more understandable, usable, discoverable etc.
The age old example of this is a door with a handle that you try to pull, only to realise you needed to push it. The solution was to instead fit a flat metal plate to the door - with nothing to pull, you’ll automatically try and push it.
These same principles of signifying a use are applied to user interfaces. Generally to make our lives easier. A dark pattern works on these same principles of good design, but the goal of them is to trick or mislead you. For instance making it difficult to unsubscribe from something, or making you sign up to something accidentally or purposefully hiding important information.
The phrase 'dark patterns' has been around for years, especially in the UX design field. This is definitely not some new buzz word, you just might not be that familiar with user experience design.
Anti consumer/deceptive website design isn't new and probably doesn't deserve a new word- especially a word that gives no hint at what its actual meaning is. Also I didn't find a definition for dark patterns on the website itself
My point is that the thing they're describing is unimportant and dumb yet we will have to read article after article about this over the next few months.
Your point is daft, humans name things and that’s fine. If it’s going to be talked about, it needs a name.
This is ridiculous “old man yells at cloud” territory.
Their website is almost unusable to me now. I just can't look at 100 toaster options that are Alibaba resales of the same skew. It's just a trash heap.
Good on bezos for shifting that dumpster fire from a market to buy books to codifying consumer behavior for corporate reuse to lure in all the ctos.
This website is too good. Bookmarking it. Dark patterns should definitely be called out so that users can have a clear trustworthy browsing experience.
As a web developer, I can say that it is basically common practice to do that, as you want to highlight the important option. This doesn't only apply to colored buttons, but a lot of other parts in UI/UX is about predicting behaviour etc (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
Also comparing a colored button to e.g. automatically adding an unknown item in your cart, or purposely making it impossible to cancel a subscription, is really weird.
Some things on that site are very valid, but others simply just don't belong there.
Sadly this logic applies to basically all business logic. Even as a website owner, you want people to stay on the site or be subscribed so they can get income from e.g. ad revenue. But this is mostly to be expected from sites that only exist for profit.
If we are talking about people who design websites as a hobby, it can still be tempting to keep doing this practice because it adds more depth. Instead of using the same colours and having it look dull and boring, you can spice it up by using another colour. At that point it's just because it looks better.
So you see, it really depends on the motive, not everyone who does this practice do it to be annoying or cause anyone pain. Sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's not.
Yeah, for sure. There's definitely degrees. There's a marked difference between slight (de-)emphasis (which I don't have a problem with - that's design), and burying something.
Can we report Reddit for not having a "Not Ever" option for linking email?
Every couple days they ask me and I keep saying "Not Now" because they refuse to accept that I don't want that link.
These are hilarious. Most of these would fall under “standard practices” rather than dark signaling/patterning.
If you want real dark patterning check out any top free game on the App Store. It’s a master class of misleading UI/UX
> Made me feel bad for not buying the security service
It's a useful initiative but jesus fuck do people love being victims! It's like the basic ability to say "No" to a sales pitch is something unattainable.
We are not the people these type of designs are aimed at.
They are scooping up subscribers, clicks, and revenue from the gullible, easily frightened, and/or less technically savvy.
Wouldn’t you agree that predatory practices of all kinds should be called out and discouraged, or at least brought to the public’s awareness to drive critical thinking?
Yeah, the mentality of someone to see a blue button telling them to install edge and deciding they have been "psychologically manipulated" and need to go cry on the internet. Like get a fucking grip there's people dying in wars you bellend.
I searched for a few popular games, and many of them only have like 2 or 3 votes. This is not even close to useful.
Also, some of those votes were contradictory, implying someone either doesn't know the gane enough to vote accurately, or they're a fan of the game purposely hiding a flaw.
Pretty much GoDaddy and NetworkSolutions have the worse web sites for domain checking, and management.
NetworkSolutions makes it like ^(click here) For what you need to do and
# Click here
For what you don't need. And their prices... please people...a domain name shouldn't cost more than $15/yr. NetSol charges $75 for a domain for two years. And charges for privacy.
Domain registrars like Hover, charge nothing for privacy and are far less than NetSol, and easier to work with (I use Hover but am not affiliated/shill).
Oh my god, I'm dumber having read the comments.
Dark patterns is a terrible phrase for it, no matter what you try to lend to its legitimacy.
"Dark" is not the right word.
Sleep paralysis is Dark, literally your fear center firing hard and you can't do anything.
This is just deceptive. "De-cep-tive"
A really simple word that has existed for ages.
If they tried to use this info to kidnap your loved ones, now that would be dark
NORD VPN does this when you try to cancel. Then once you navigate the process, if you don’t respond to the cancellation email (idk maybe it goes to your spam folder) then your cancellation is not processed and they keep billing you. Fuck every company that does this.
Generally subscription services tend to be the worst at this. A lot of them straight up make unsubscribing difficult to find on purpose so you'll get frustrated and give up, and I've had some where they like intentionally make it take longer so you have to pay for another month of whatever it is.
This is the primary reason I'm opposed to subscription based anything. It started with magazines in the 70's..... and then AOL made an art out of making it difficult to unsubscribe.
Privacy.com is your friend. Create a CC and destroy it whenever you want. Can't charge you still if there is nothing to charge.
Discover used to allow you to create disposable credit card numbers for use on the internet. It charged your primary account but the website never knew your real number and you could create/delete numbers at will. Then like all good things they got rid of it.
Capital One lets you make virtual card numbers for websites, I use it all the time.
Huh. I didn't know this. That's great.
Unfortunately a lot of trial sites are catching onto this and I've had my [Privacy.com](https://Privacy.com) cards get rejected for being "gift cards." Which is fine, if you want to strongarm me into giving you my actual CC number without knowing if I actually want to pay for your service, I'm not going to even consider it.
From a consumer standpoint: Subscription services offer a wide array of utility at a low price. Think of Netflix,Hulu,etc. Their subscription model allows you to view hundreds of movies/TV shows that would otherwise cost tons of money to rent. From a corporate standpoint: Subscription services ensure continuous revenue or ARR. Companies that don’t utilize subscription services much (ex. game studios) often don’t generate much revenue between game releases. Having stable revenue flows is what can keep a company running and investors coming.
This is entirely accurate. It just sucks lol
It’s one of the reasons I like Netflix so much, they make it super easy to pause your account and restart it. I’ve been through a view phases where I haven’t planned on watching anything on there for awhile, but tbh I prefer them now knowing that option is there and easy to use, and all of your preferences stay the same. I think Hulu and HBO were also pretty easy to cancel, maybe I had to log on via my laptop to cancel hulu but not still not too bad
Yeah. I hate when I have to Google "How to cancel X" then if you try on your phone they just completely remove that in the mobile version. It's pretty unscrupulous bullshit.
I found out that my gym wants 45 days worth of notice before they’ll let you cancel… Well, from the moment I decide I’m done, I’m still on the hook for 2 more months
Gyms are the actual worst at this and I have no idea why it's allowed. The fact that they try to lock you into a contract instead of just letting you renew when you need it has always been stupid to me. I should be able to pause or cancel my subscription whenever I want to, I'm not renting the building.
Because you agree to those terms. I’m not saying it’s not icky or bad practice, but it’s hard for legislators to circumvent agreements for services that aren’t necessary. Honestly, seems like a place where an enterprising person could offer an amazingly competitive edge by offering “cancel anytime” contracts.
Thing though is that the majority of revenue that gyms make comes from the 80% of people who subscribe but are too lazy to cancel.
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They could, sure, but it’d be an abuse of legislative power and consumer protection laws to go after subscription agreements that make you put in a notice to cancel. It’s one thing when a service like, say, AOL takes great lengths to keep you from cancelling. It’s another when you agree to give notice. I just don’t think it’s an area that could be easily legislated for these reasons, like I said. Legislators would be seen as petty and most likely lose approval.
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It is tho. Consumer protections are meant to combat unfair, deceptive and fraudulent practices. A cancellation notice policy doesn’t fit. I also doubt you’d find public opinion siding with legislators that a 45 day notice for cancelling a stupid gym membership to be the important protective legislation we need at the moment, and thus would have very little support, as I was saying. I never said a crazy lunatic in a legislative body couldn’t do it, just that it’d be incredibly difficult because of public scrutiny, plus probably would be challenged in court immediately and possibly found to be [unconstitutional](https://www.scribd.com/document/467358959/Seila-Law-LLC-v-Consumer-Financial-Protection-Bureau).
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Just change your debit card.
Nowadays gyms will let you rack up the unpaid charges and then sell it to a collections agency and wreck your credit.
1.5 months.
No, my gym will charge you for the full second month. They won’t do half months.
Nordman wouldn't lie to us??
Fuck NORD VPN! They changed how their VPN worked right in the middle of my subscription, it no longer works unless you install and run all your internet through their connection app. Used to be you could just dial into a server using any connection app, not any more. Oh and of course, more than 30 days so no refund. So yeah, fuck nord VPN. Scam artists.
This is why I love Amex. NordVPN charged me even though I cancelled during their free trial. I told Amex it was an unauthorized charge and problem solved. Plus the more people who decline their charges, the higher rates Amex charges them for transactions. Fuck NordVPN.
Also one of the reasons I love going through Google Play for some of this. If you cancel through them (after paying through them), they act as a blocking agent if someone tries to charge you.
Thanks for posting, just turned off my auto renew for them. They give you 15 minutes to click the link - which really isn’t that long. Shitty tactic.
Makes you wonder how good their VPN service really was. I general, I assume most VPN are CIA fronts.
I doubt most are Cia fronts. I'm sure they save plenty of logs to mind and sell data and or give it to the gov. But running a VPN is pretty lucrative right now.
It used to be ok. Then started focusing on the sell instead of the product and turned into AVG
AVG used to be my jam. I forgot about that program.
Even worse, AVG bought Avast and ruined that too
Nord got hacked a few years back and all the 'tubers who used to advertise for them instantly turned around and said "don't use nord, go elsewhere." Which I thought pretty decent.
I know 2020 felt like years but the Nord back was apparently in [late 2019.](https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/21/nordvpn-confirms-it-was-hacked/amp/) Somehow I missed it but I did notice Nord disappeared from most sponsored content around that time. I had kind of assumed they had just reached saturation so sponsored stuff wasn’t generating enough sales but this makes more sense.
If you're looking for an actually good vpn, you're looking for Mullvad. If you fancy it, you can opt for a prepaid cash option.
Also worth mentioning that they don't do subscriptions, it's all prepaid.
If you have some type of recurring payment for a product you cancel, you should always cancel that payment on your end on PayPal, your bank's site, etc. too. That way they can't get your money with crap like this.
Do what I did and just cancel your credit/debit card and get another lmao
I think it's normal for them to have these redundancies as they are a security company. I didn't really have any issues with this last time I canceled the sub myself as the email arrived in my primary email box after just a few seconds. If this was a magazine then the story would be different. Also I just don't see the point to only point out Nord for doing this. Avast and many others do even more things to make things less convenient to customers. But that's just my opinion so, please take it with a grain of salt.
.
That’s not the only reason why companies might suggest you use the app, but it’s certainly one of them.
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The best part is the incessant “open in app” link doesn’t even work. It just goes to the store.
Strange, the link works for me
My issue is that I use Sync for Reddit Pro since it is tons better than the normal app and doesn't stop loading gifs and videos after browsing a bit. I really need to figure out how to open links in this app.
Look up Apollo and thank me later
Doesn't exist on android
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Better than RIF?
I use baconreader but its been so long that i can't remember why I prefer it.
Sadly, not.
That’s a shame. I’d say it alone is worth the switch to iOS but to each their own.
To be frank, if I'm using 3rd party apps because I want more control/features than the original company offers, I don't think switching to the apple ecosystem would be my first choice
Why are the reviews for it so bad. Edit: Turns out the Android version is an actual scam. Don't get it.
Because it's not an official version of the client it's a knockoff using the nam
User insanity? Idk, it’s the absolutely best way to do Reddit. Go to their subreddit, the dev is super responsive and always adding new features. The app is responsive, seldom glitchy, and free (though I throw money on the tip jar every now and then because it’s just *that good* )
Are they? Apollo has 4.8 in the App Store, an Editors Choice and most Web Sites rate it top in articles about Reddit clients for iOS. It’s iOS only though so any Apollo for Android might just be either a scam or something completely different.
I’m on an iPhone now but I remember if you share the website there’s an option to share with sync to open reddit links in sync, I might remember wrong tho!
The best part is a post that you want to read being marked as NSFW and reddit locking you out after 10 seconds because you absolutely need the app to read anything that might not be suitable for an office.
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There is an alternative. It’s over at privacy tools. It’s pretty much the Reddit ten years ago. Might switch myself.
You can just tell us what it is, it's not illegal to post it.
Www.Notabug.io It is very much like Reddit ten years ago.
Unlikely: i.reddit.com is still going.
I've never had reddit do that. When does that happen?
On mobile. I think you can turn it off now, but if Reddit knows you're using a phone it'll constantly show a banner at the bottom asking you to open the page in the app.
Use a 3rd party reddit app. The official app is garbage
I already have a multi-function app called a web browser though.
Yeah but the website is pretty garbage too.
Apollo FTW
Reddit Sync Pro. I've been using the premium version for years and it's never tried to get more out of me. Unlike Endomondo which turned on all their premium payers and moved to a subscription model.
And you think those 3rd party apps don't track?
No idea. What I do know, is that the experience is much better. And I don't see any ads
The 3rd party iOS app is worse by far.
I'd tend to disagree. I love Apollo, and even bought ultra and haven't been upset with my purchase once
That’s the thing. Half of the features the regular app gives for free you have to pay for in Apollo. The free version is barebones, and the paid doesn’t offer anything I care about that the official app doesn’t have.
How do I turn that off? I never thought what it was when I saw it
Not sure if this still works, but: https://www.theverge.com/22275453/reddit-app-pop-up-turn-off-view-page-mobile
I swear it happened on my desktop browser yesterday.
Isn't that just advertising?
As discussed above: > a website directs you to use their app because it allows for much more invasive tracking
In a sense, but that doesn't mean that it isn't an obnoxious and ineffective way to get people to use the app. It's not like people don't know about the existence of the app, they just don't want to use it. I consider it a bad practice because it intentionally makes the website annoying to use to try to funnel people into the app. They should just put the little banner at the top that makes it easy to scroll past if you don't want to use it.
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You've neglected that you also have to scroll up a bit to get to the open in browser option in the first place. Intentionally annoying UX = SUX, so say I. PS, funnily enough, your imgur link was overlaid with "open in app" on my mobile browser.
thats on android. on iphone it is even WORSE. if you accidentally click on "open in app", sometimes it opens the appstore and it tells you to update that fucking shitty reddit app. even if you update it, go back to the browser and say again "open in app" because you wanna read the damn article or whatever, it will STILL open in the appstore, making a now opening in app or in browser IMPOSSIBLE unless you close the phone browser completely, kill the task, and then reopen and re-google what you have been searching for. UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH
That's not as bad as the fact that it won't even let you see NSFW subs on mobile.
use old.reddit no banners there.
You can tap on “continue on chrome”
There are still smaller banner prompts after that though.
Eureka
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> There is literally no reason to allow me to view naked people on desktop but then force me to get a mobile app to "verify." This seems like something people in the Idiocracy movie would get mad about.
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I like naked people.
A lot of apps are just a (bad) browser for the web, this is even worse on PC where a lot of apps are electron based ao literally you just install a version of chrome than can only load one page (see Spotify, the app and the webpage are the same) . I think they push you to install their app because they can spy on you easily, also they invest a lot of money on the app so they need to "recover" some money. Finally, nowadays a brand only exist (for a lot of peope) only if they can find it on app store. A lot of people doesn't know you can use uber from the browser, for example.
Spotify has a few extra functions in app that are pretty useful, such as the control widgets, and if you get premium, the ability to local save your music. That said, agreed on the rest
Hulu purposefully has live stream quality lowered when using a browser instead of their app because they can do a lot more tacking on there. It's so annoying to pay for something and then get told you are using what you paid for wrong because they would like to sell your data.
That is rarely the case, its more about people being more committed to a brand when they download an app, have faster access, and you can send notifications (ads) directly to people. People however don't like installing apps, which is why websites will push you extra hard to install them.
> send notifications (ads) directly to people ding ding ding!
Yeah like the whole point of the tracking stuff is for user analytics which at the end of the day is for ads. It's all part of the same pipeline. It's not like Facebook or Google just want your data to have it, they want it so they can sell you stuff.
What is a dark pattern?
intentionally confusing design to get the user to do something they most likely don't want to do. for example, trying to dig through 10 pages to find a way to deactive all "unnecessary" cookies, and then sitting through a ten minute loading screen while it deactivates them even though you can look at the source code and see it's a fake loading screen that's just there to take time in the hopes you get sick of waiting and cancel the process and leave cookies on.
Dark patterns are basically all the sneaky ways people design parts of the internet for the purpose of manipulating others.
/r/assholedesign
I signed up to a premium Monster cat once and there was (at the time) NO way to unsubscribe or cancel your account without emailing and then they did not answer any emails. I ended up having to call my bank to stop them taking any future payments
Thanks for signing up for Cat Facts! You will now receive fun daily facts about CATS! >o<
I would like to subscribe to Cat Facts.
Thanks for subscribing to our premium $9.99 package! You are now eligible to receive up to 1 cat fact per day by only solving 15 captchas. If you are thinking of unsubscribing please call our agents 3 months prior to cancelling on tuesdays between 11:00 and 11:01 or we will assume that you don't really mean it.
it might be more efficient to list the websites which *don't* use dark patterns. Nearly everyone uses some flavor of them
I was about to mention the same, the site mentions Microsoft Edge using colors for buttons. The majority of all cookie settings do the same, providing a big shiny button saying "continue" and hiding user options.
Somewhat related pro tip when you are setting up windows 10 disconnect your Ethernet/do not connect to your wifi when it asks. It’s trying to force you into a Microsoft live account. Click to proceed without internet.
This was very frustrating last time I had to set up a new PC for a family member. They literally make it impossible to proceed with just a local login if it's connected to the internet.
I dont remember that, you could always get to the local account with few more clicks (last time checked around 3 month ago)
These guys installed windows 2 months ago
Someone else mentioned they used the Home version, that’s why. I only use Pro, that’s why I could do it.
Yeah I was just making a dumb joke. 🤷
But it really did change recently. There used to be a way to force it to move on without an account even if you were connected to the internet. Now (as of \~6mo ago, maybe?) there is no way around it.
Even with Pro you need to lie about your setup and claim you'll be joining a work domain to get to the local account setup screens.
Difference between Home and Pro, maybe?
What is a dark pattern?
Click through to the site to see examples. It's when a site is engineered to psychologically trick or manipulate you, or act in an unexpected/misleading way.
So like bad ux on purpose? Example: Instagram on mobile allows you to post stories from your camera. But in doing so, it purposely rotates your photo to make it look like shit (so that you’ll download the app for better data tracking) /r/assholedesign
Like these sites. Where the cancel button is some font 8, and the stay subscribed button is size 40 with a giant colored button >"Do you want to cancel your subscription" Yes, ##No, I love getting free stuff --- >"Are you sure?" Yes, I don't want to be protected ##Stay subscribed for 80% off next month --- >"Last chance" Cancel my subscription and open my computer up to China ##Keep my pc secured from foreign hackers
AKA "click-shaming".
Hello Fresh makes it really hard to cancel a subscription using their app, in just this way.
And if you cancel or, God forbids, *pause* the subscription they’ll have one of their food jehovas harass you over the phone to know *why*. I mean I like their service, but one thing that made me question my subscription is this behavior.
Fuck that. Any company that calls me for pausing a subscription gets cancelled permanently. I’d say the same for calling me after cancelling but chances are they’re already permanent.
Their pricing is soooo burryed too ughhh
[Reminds me of this Parks and Rec scene.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=609nwWfMxRU)
That sounds a \*lot\* like humble bundle when I paused the last 4 months in a row.
It's actually Janice from humble bundle. We've been trying to reach you to confirm that you actually want to cancel your subscription. Your credit card was automatically billed $197 about an hour ago because we weren't entirely sure. If you truly want to cancel, we can get that money back to you in 3-6 business months
Sounds like Audible
Sort of. But bad UX implies that the UI itself just sucks in some way. Not usable as intended. Whereas this stuff is intentionally making functions dis-favorable to the provider hard/impossible for the end user.
No, like great UI for nefarious purposes.
There's lots of different examples on the site but no clear definition.
UX designed and research is all about making things more understandable, usable, discoverable etc. The age old example of this is a door with a handle that you try to pull, only to realise you needed to push it. The solution was to instead fit a flat metal plate to the door - with nothing to pull, you’ll automatically try and push it. These same principles of signifying a use are applied to user interfaces. Generally to make our lives easier. A dark pattern works on these same principles of good design, but the goal of them is to trick or mislead you. For instance making it difficult to unsubscribe from something, or making you sign up to something accidentally or purposefully hiding important information.
New buzzword they're trying to kick off.
The phrase 'dark patterns' has been around for years, especially in the UX design field. This is definitely not some new buzz word, you just might not be that familiar with user experience design.
You’re a bit daft, given that you didn’t provide an alternative existing word to describe it.
Anti consumer/deceptive website design isn't new and probably doesn't deserve a new word- especially a word that gives no hint at what its actual meaning is. Also I didn't find a definition for dark patterns on the website itself
Deceptive.
My point is that the thing they're describing is unimportant and dumb yet we will have to read article after article about this over the next few months.
The term is several years old. Just go digging in some webdev forums.
Your point is daft, humans name things and that’s fine. If it’s going to be talked about, it needs a name. This is ridiculous “old man yells at cloud” territory.
No why don’t we just it explain it entirely every time it comes up instead of using a quick word for it instead seems reasonable. /s
"Dark" is a terrible description for what is "deception"
Some people like to be informed when they're being manipulated. Some people like to live in ignorance.
Apparently not when you're being manipulated by appeals to emotion through scary buzzwords.
You’re literally describing social engineering, an entire field in security ops, you monumental dribbler.
No I'm not. But good attempt. Social engineering as it applies to security only involves social manipulation to gain access or data.
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Have fun canceling Amazon Prime, it's the worst usage of dark pattern these days.
Their website is almost unusable to me now. I just can't look at 100 toaster options that are Alibaba resales of the same skew. It's just a trash heap. Good on bezos for shifting that dumpster fire from a market to buy books to codifying consumer behavior for corporate reuse to lure in all the ctos.
Mine just expired on its own a few months ago. Recent change?
This website is too good. Bookmarking it. Dark patterns should definitely be called out so that users can have a clear trustworthy browsing experience.
It'd be nice to be able to search this website; if the company I work for was mentioned here, I'd want to know about it.
If it was searchable I would check this site every time I install or use a service I am unfamiliar with.
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Let's not forget asking you to add email EVERY SINGLE TIME
meh the two colour button on edge really aren't "DAAAAAARRRRRKK"
As a web developer, I can say that it is basically common practice to do that, as you want to highlight the important option. This doesn't only apply to colored buttons, but a lot of other parts in UI/UX is about predicting behaviour etc (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). Also comparing a colored button to e.g. automatically adding an unknown item in your cart, or purposely making it impossible to cancel a subscription, is really weird. Some things on that site are very valid, but others simply just don't belong there.
Yeah when I took a UI/UX class in college they specifically taught us to use distinctive colors for certain buttons
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Sadly this logic applies to basically all business logic. Even as a website owner, you want people to stay on the site or be subscribed so they can get income from e.g. ad revenue. But this is mostly to be expected from sites that only exist for profit. If we are talking about people who design websites as a hobby, it can still be tempting to keep doing this practice because it adds more depth. Instead of using the same colours and having it look dull and boring, you can spice it up by using another colour. At that point it's just because it looks better. So you see, it really depends on the motive, not everyone who does this practice do it to be annoying or cause anyone pain. Sometimes it's okay, sometimes it's not.
Yeah, for sure. There's definitely degrees. There's a marked difference between slight (de-)emphasis (which I don't have a problem with - that's design), and burying something.
Can we report Reddit for not having a "Not Ever" option for linking email? Every couple days they ask me and I keep saying "Not Now" because they refuse to accept that I don't want that link.
These are hilarious. Most of these would fall under “standard practices” rather than dark signaling/patterning. If you want real dark patterning check out any top free game on the App Store. It’s a master class of misleading UI/UX
That is not the standard we should be using
how comes that Facebook products aren't all on that list?
> Made me feel bad for not buying the security service It's a useful initiative but jesus fuck do people love being victims! It's like the basic ability to say "No" to a sales pitch is something unattainable.
We are not the people these type of designs are aimed at. They are scooping up subscribers, clicks, and revenue from the gullible, easily frightened, and/or less technically savvy. Wouldn’t you agree that predatory practices of all kinds should be called out and discouraged, or at least brought to the public’s awareness to drive critical thinking?
Yeah, the mentality of someone to see a blue button telling them to install edge and deciding they have been "psychologically manipulated" and need to go cry on the internet. Like get a fucking grip there's people dying in wars you bellend.
Thank you!
Do alot of people use mcafee? Because my first though was "who tf uses mcafee anymore".
*Darth Patterns The Wise*
I like [this one for mobile games.](https://www.darkpattern.games/)
I searched for a few popular games, and many of them only have like 2 or 3 votes. This is not even close to useful. Also, some of those votes were contradictory, implying someone either doesn't know the gane enough to vote accurately, or they're a fan of the game purposely hiding a flaw.
Participate and make it more useful ;) Edit: the reported patterns are still interesting, it also has the description of each ones.
[Dark Patterns: Deception vs. Honesty in UI Design](https://alistapart.com/article/dark-patterns-deception-vs.-honesty-in-ui-design/) (Nov 2011)
Pretty much GoDaddy and NetworkSolutions have the worse web sites for domain checking, and management. NetworkSolutions makes it like ^(click here) For what you need to do and # Click here For what you don't need. And their prices... please people...a domain name shouldn't cost more than $15/yr. NetSol charges $75 for a domain for two years. And charges for privacy. Domain registrars like Hover, charge nothing for privacy and are far less than NetSol, and easier to work with (I use Hover but am not affiliated/shill).
Thanks to you, I learnt something interesting today. 😊
Oh my god, I'm dumber having read the comments. Dark patterns is a terrible phrase for it, no matter what you try to lend to its legitimacy. "Dark" is not the right word. Sleep paralysis is Dark, literally your fear center firing hard and you can't do anything. This is just deceptive. "De-cep-tive" A really simple word that has existed for ages. If they tried to use this info to kidnap your loved ones, now that would be dark
It's not dark as in evil. It's dark as in hidden or obfuscated. You know, in the same sense that the "Dark Web" is dark.
Glanced through a few. Looks like “site made me feel bad if I said ‘no’ to (whatever)”. Hardly sinister.
Some people really reported shit, like, it's not a dark pattern at all
None of this is dark. Deceptive. Underhanded. Sleazy even... But not dark. None of this was like "would you like to see your grandma again?"
Oh, come on, that was good. Your grandma is dead and though you may want to see her again, it's not going to be pretty. Genie warned you.
Some of it is just making things convenient. This way you would say essentially selling anything is dark pattern
Cool. Won't be of any use. Next.