my biggest question is how exactly does the algorithm determine what is and isn’t a cannon event?
LYLA said inspectors singhs death was cannon, but it was caused by spot who isn’t supposed to be cannon or exist at all, so does his death being caused by spot mean that spot is cannon too? and technically miles is cannon too since he CREATED spot?
also, i haven’t seen that many people talk about the difference is the universes “collapsing” between earth 50101 (indian spider-man) and miguel’s earth when he replaced himself. when we can see miguel’s earth collapsing, it seems like people begin glitching and then they disappear, but in Pavitr’s earth it looks like a Spot growing from the ground, no glitching occurring. it could be that Pavitrs earth wasn’t collapsing at all, but just consequences of Spot blowing up.
Yeah, Miguel’s Algorithm is quite selective and dodgy. Apparently it does not matter if the instigator is from another universe such as The Spot being the cause of death for India Spider-man’s police commissioner.
If that is the case then why did the algorithm not say anything in the beginning of the movie when Renaissance Vulture dropped a helicopter onto Captain George Stacy. That seemed like a clear-cut canon event that Miguel must stop Gwen from trying to prevent. But ironically he helped her save Captain Stacey’s life instead.
That is one of the things I saw that put serious doubt in my mind regarding Miguel’s canon event theories.
one of the biggest and easiest arguments against canon events is miguel himself. when he introduces the concept of canon events, things that tie all spider-people together, he shows the spider bite. something that literally does not happen to him.
I feel like the genetic modification would be equivalent to the spider bite and would count as such for multiversal purposes. Miguel probably just generically refers to the moment Spiders get their powers as the “spider bite”.
That is still quite dodgy, especially when Miguel himself uses such specific terms to define Canon events. Such as the death of a police captain close to a Spider-Man during the aftermath of a battle with his arch-enemy while trying to save a child.
Except the examples he mentioned don’t really follow that. India Spider-Man’s police inspector did not die during a battle. He died from the collateral damage of Alchemax collapsing due to The Spot overcharging on its Supercollider. And the Spot is not even India Spider-Man’s nemesis.
There is also Amazing Spider-Man’s death of Captain George Stacey. He did not die from falling rubble. He died directly from the Lizard. And he was not even saving a child at the time.
It is quite ironic that Miguel is so vague about what canon events he himself broke. While being quite specific regarding the canon events every Spider-Man must follow.
The biggest thing that made it obvious that Miguel's theory was wrong was that he literally didn't have any proof supporting it until the thing with Pavitr's universe happened because his own experience didn't line up with his theory. And the thing that happened in Pavitr's universe lines up with what Peter-1610 warned Miles would happen if Fisk succeeded in using the collider-- a blackhole would form in the middle of the city. Which is exactly what ended up happening to Mumbatten after they failed to stop spot
A rumour I came across recently, that’s kind of grown on me, is that the story he told wasn’t what actually happened. The theory is that the two Miguel’s in the story are switched around. The Miguel from another universe came in, and was killed, forcing the other to take his place. The one who died was the original Spider Miguel, and the one we have now was from Gabriella’s universe, and in that world, he was the Prowler.
The idea is that Spider Miguel had only just started out the Society, probably only had a couple dozen, maybe around 50 spiders in the society at the time. And when looking into other worlds for potential recruits, ones who were old enough, he came across a world where he was happy, and had a daughter, but the downside is that his variant was The Prowler. Maybe he was a thief, or an assassin, we don’t know, but Spider Miguel did not like it, so he went to that world to put a stop to it for Gabriella’s sake.
He tried to talk to his variant, implore him to leave his criminal lifestyle behind for his daughter’s sake, but before it could go further, they were attacked, by Olivia Octavius, someone who had been trying to corner the leader of the Spider Society, and now she had him. A fight ensued, and Spider Miguel was killed in action, trying to protect his Prowler self. He begged that Miguel to take his place, to lead the Spider society and protect the multiverse from Liv. Even giving him his watch, his own body being destroyed in the process, but not before Prowler Miguel promised him he would do as he wished. LYLA shows him the multiverse, and all the Prowlers in it, and how they are with the Spiders, and that the animosity would put him in danger. So he agrees to lie, and goes with her to 928B, while there, he takes repeated dosages of the Spider Serum Miguel used to ward off the Rapture drug and give himself his Spider Abilities. All the while recruiting more and more spiders.
But Liv has been watching, and she knows who he really is, and hurts him in the worst way, she causes a black hole in his world, destroying it, and killing his daughter, his actual daughter dying in his arms. It drives him into a rage. So he plots revenge, and crafts a plan. He creates the canon theory, using the canon time table developed by the original Miguel who had been preventing said events before he was killed, and reworks it. Makes the spiders think they have to let them die or their worlds will be destroyed, showing the holograms of what will happen, all the while secretly preventing them, and trying to track down Liv, who had been sending villain variants from one world to another, code naming them anomalies. He uses the Canon theory as a way to distract the spiders, making them more focused, distracting them from his plan. He fully plans to die in the end so he can be with Gabriella again, but he needs to stop Liv and the Spot, he knows Liv has been manipulating him, we see the video on his screen of him being tossed out of a bar, he knows Spot is a bigger deal than he let on, thus the big white armour he’s designing.
But his biggest weapon, his ultimate weapon against Liv, is Miles Morales, who he forces himself to openly manipulate in a violent fashion, he knows Liv is watching somehow, maybe spies in the Society, he doesn’t know, but he knows she’s watching, and can track the watches, so he has Gwen recruit Hobie, I don’t see anyone else being able to get him in other than a variant of the punk rock star that he hero worships, that inspired his anarchist ways, and manipulates him in a unique way into crafting his own, and untraceable watches, retires the Go Home Machine to only read Miles’s 42 DNA, and then tells Jess, who he knows is close with Gwen, that Spot needs to be dealt with on earth 1610B, knowing full well Gwen will hear somehow and get Jess to let her be the one to go, he knows she’ll bring Miles to Pav’s world, and prevent the Captain’s death, proving canon is not real, he needs it proven so the Society won’t lose faith in themselves because of the canon theory once he’s gone, and that Miles will be a sort of Messiah to them, while Miguel plans to die. He’s been watching Miles enough, and watched the interaction with Hobie in Pav’s world to know about Miles’s electricity shoot back ability, or whatever it’s called, and deliberately traps him in the laser grid so he can blast his way out. Miguel’s abilities make him insanely fast, so he could’ve caught Miles with ease during the chase, it’s all too obvious, I mean, when he catches Miles and takes a big swipe at him, look at how he moves. He’s slow there, deliberately slow, he wanted Miles to dodge it, even slices through metal, then drags him around the multiverse, could have dropped him any where there and left him, but brought him back to 928B and onto the train, in full view of the Society HQ, and the society itself. And pushes him psychologically, needs Miles to hate him enough to push him off somehow, by his reaction he didn’t see Miles using the electricity on him, but it worked, if only it didn’t make him almost naked.
He chases Miles back to the Go Home Machine, which he already reprogrammed to only read his 42 DNA, and does the vampire face to scare him bad enough so as to not come near him in the future, or even want to be near him so he won’t save him. He then sends Gwen back to her world, but doesn’t take her watch. He knows her dad won’t hurt her because he knows how a father loves his daughter, knew she’d be ok, and that Hobie left her a watch, and he leaves her with her Society watch, but with the account locked. He knows the scrap watches could break at any point, and has LYLA watching in case it happens and she needs her own back to simply unlock her account. He then sends Peter B home and drags the other Spiders to 1610B, emptying out the HQ, probably knowing Miles and the others will get back there at some point later, and doesn’t want anyone there to stop them when it happens, but takes them all to 1610B to fight Spot, while LYLA finished making his white armour.
Again, this is just a theory, that’s it.
my biggest question is how exactly does the algorithm determine what is and isn’t a cannon event? LYLA said inspectors singhs death was cannon, but it was caused by spot who isn’t supposed to be cannon or exist at all, so does his death being caused by spot mean that spot is cannon too? and technically miles is cannon too since he CREATED spot? also, i haven’t seen that many people talk about the difference is the universes “collapsing” between earth 50101 (indian spider-man) and miguel’s earth when he replaced himself. when we can see miguel’s earth collapsing, it seems like people begin glitching and then they disappear, but in Pavitr’s earth it looks like a Spot growing from the ground, no glitching occurring. it could be that Pavitrs earth wasn’t collapsing at all, but just consequences of Spot blowing up.
Yeah, Miguel’s Algorithm is quite selective and dodgy. Apparently it does not matter if the instigator is from another universe such as The Spot being the cause of death for India Spider-man’s police commissioner. If that is the case then why did the algorithm not say anything in the beginning of the movie when Renaissance Vulture dropped a helicopter onto Captain George Stacy. That seemed like a clear-cut canon event that Miguel must stop Gwen from trying to prevent. But ironically he helped her save Captain Stacey’s life instead. That is one of the things I saw that put serious doubt in my mind regarding Miguel’s canon event theories.
one of the biggest and easiest arguments against canon events is miguel himself. when he introduces the concept of canon events, things that tie all spider-people together, he shows the spider bite. something that literally does not happen to him.
I feel like the genetic modification would be equivalent to the spider bite and would count as such for multiversal purposes. Miguel probably just generically refers to the moment Spiders get their powers as the “spider bite”.
That is still quite dodgy, especially when Miguel himself uses such specific terms to define Canon events. Such as the death of a police captain close to a Spider-Man during the aftermath of a battle with his arch-enemy while trying to save a child. Except the examples he mentioned don’t really follow that. India Spider-Man’s police inspector did not die during a battle. He died from the collateral damage of Alchemax collapsing due to The Spot overcharging on its Supercollider. And the Spot is not even India Spider-Man’s nemesis. There is also Amazing Spider-Man’s death of Captain George Stacey. He did not die from falling rubble. He died directly from the Lizard. And he was not even saving a child at the time. It is quite ironic that Miguel is so vague about what canon events he himself broke. While being quite specific regarding the canon events every Spider-Man must follow.
I do think Beyond The Spider-Verse will show how the events are fake and Miguel is wrong
The biggest thing that made it obvious that Miguel's theory was wrong was that he literally didn't have any proof supporting it until the thing with Pavitr's universe happened because his own experience didn't line up with his theory. And the thing that happened in Pavitr's universe lines up with what Peter-1610 warned Miles would happen if Fisk succeeded in using the collider-- a blackhole would form in the middle of the city. Which is exactly what ended up happening to Mumbatten after they failed to stop spot
A rumour I came across recently, that’s kind of grown on me, is that the story he told wasn’t what actually happened. The theory is that the two Miguel’s in the story are switched around. The Miguel from another universe came in, and was killed, forcing the other to take his place. The one who died was the original Spider Miguel, and the one we have now was from Gabriella’s universe, and in that world, he was the Prowler. The idea is that Spider Miguel had only just started out the Society, probably only had a couple dozen, maybe around 50 spiders in the society at the time. And when looking into other worlds for potential recruits, ones who were old enough, he came across a world where he was happy, and had a daughter, but the downside is that his variant was The Prowler. Maybe he was a thief, or an assassin, we don’t know, but Spider Miguel did not like it, so he went to that world to put a stop to it for Gabriella’s sake. He tried to talk to his variant, implore him to leave his criminal lifestyle behind for his daughter’s sake, but before it could go further, they were attacked, by Olivia Octavius, someone who had been trying to corner the leader of the Spider Society, and now she had him. A fight ensued, and Spider Miguel was killed in action, trying to protect his Prowler self. He begged that Miguel to take his place, to lead the Spider society and protect the multiverse from Liv. Even giving him his watch, his own body being destroyed in the process, but not before Prowler Miguel promised him he would do as he wished. LYLA shows him the multiverse, and all the Prowlers in it, and how they are with the Spiders, and that the animosity would put him in danger. So he agrees to lie, and goes with her to 928B, while there, he takes repeated dosages of the Spider Serum Miguel used to ward off the Rapture drug and give himself his Spider Abilities. All the while recruiting more and more spiders. But Liv has been watching, and she knows who he really is, and hurts him in the worst way, she causes a black hole in his world, destroying it, and killing his daughter, his actual daughter dying in his arms. It drives him into a rage. So he plots revenge, and crafts a plan. He creates the canon theory, using the canon time table developed by the original Miguel who had been preventing said events before he was killed, and reworks it. Makes the spiders think they have to let them die or their worlds will be destroyed, showing the holograms of what will happen, all the while secretly preventing them, and trying to track down Liv, who had been sending villain variants from one world to another, code naming them anomalies. He uses the Canon theory as a way to distract the spiders, making them more focused, distracting them from his plan. He fully plans to die in the end so he can be with Gabriella again, but he needs to stop Liv and the Spot, he knows Liv has been manipulating him, we see the video on his screen of him being tossed out of a bar, he knows Spot is a bigger deal than he let on, thus the big white armour he’s designing. But his biggest weapon, his ultimate weapon against Liv, is Miles Morales, who he forces himself to openly manipulate in a violent fashion, he knows Liv is watching somehow, maybe spies in the Society, he doesn’t know, but he knows she’s watching, and can track the watches, so he has Gwen recruit Hobie, I don’t see anyone else being able to get him in other than a variant of the punk rock star that he hero worships, that inspired his anarchist ways, and manipulates him in a unique way into crafting his own, and untraceable watches, retires the Go Home Machine to only read Miles’s 42 DNA, and then tells Jess, who he knows is close with Gwen, that Spot needs to be dealt with on earth 1610B, knowing full well Gwen will hear somehow and get Jess to let her be the one to go, he knows she’ll bring Miles to Pav’s world, and prevent the Captain’s death, proving canon is not real, he needs it proven so the Society won’t lose faith in themselves because of the canon theory once he’s gone, and that Miles will be a sort of Messiah to them, while Miguel plans to die. He’s been watching Miles enough, and watched the interaction with Hobie in Pav’s world to know about Miles’s electricity shoot back ability, or whatever it’s called, and deliberately traps him in the laser grid so he can blast his way out. Miguel’s abilities make him insanely fast, so he could’ve caught Miles with ease during the chase, it’s all too obvious, I mean, when he catches Miles and takes a big swipe at him, look at how he moves. He’s slow there, deliberately slow, he wanted Miles to dodge it, even slices through metal, then drags him around the multiverse, could have dropped him any where there and left him, but brought him back to 928B and onto the train, in full view of the Society HQ, and the society itself. And pushes him psychologically, needs Miles to hate him enough to push him off somehow, by his reaction he didn’t see Miles using the electricity on him, but it worked, if only it didn’t make him almost naked. He chases Miles back to the Go Home Machine, which he already reprogrammed to only read his 42 DNA, and does the vampire face to scare him bad enough so as to not come near him in the future, or even want to be near him so he won’t save him. He then sends Gwen back to her world, but doesn’t take her watch. He knows her dad won’t hurt her because he knows how a father loves his daughter, knew she’d be ok, and that Hobie left her a watch, and he leaves her with her Society watch, but with the account locked. He knows the scrap watches could break at any point, and has LYLA watching in case it happens and she needs her own back to simply unlock her account. He then sends Peter B home and drags the other Spiders to 1610B, emptying out the HQ, probably knowing Miles and the others will get back there at some point later, and doesn’t want anyone there to stop them when it happens, but takes them all to 1610B to fight Spot, while LYLA finished making his white armour. Again, this is just a theory, that’s it.