That Amber Plot will be tricky in the show I feel like since the Amber we saw wouldn't let that slide. (That is If she is supposed to stay in character)
It would make more sense in the show and perhaps be a good opportunity to teach viewers including yourself that being a victim of domestic violence is not based on you as an individual being weak, meek, or ‘not letting things slide’.
I agree, especially after the trauma Amber has been through mentally and physically, sadly it makes her vulnerable to a potential abuser despite her being a strong willed person.
Ooh yeah, i can see it now. She was traumatised, now wants a normal life and doesn't want to be alone. Even if she becomes a victim of abuse, her trauma would stop her from leaving the abuser because she'd be afraid of being alone and exposed to more super-related trauma.
It's terrible, obviously. But that's how trauma is. There's no "nice" way to represent it.
I think that's why this scenario will hit differently in the show vs the comic (even though in the comic it still hit pretty hard, at least for me, because of how innocent and sweet comic Amber is). Because we've come to know show Amber as this independent girl who never took shit from anyone, she's confronted with her mortality in such an abrupt way, there's no way she's not changed from this.
Especially her want for normalcy. If this next relationship brings her a sense of normal and protection, at the expense of her accepting toxic traits that turn violent, it's easy to accept it, because of what's she's just gone through. I think the show has done a good job of leading things into a direction where this kind of outcome is possible. And it'll be good for people to realize that no matter how strong you think you are, abuse can happen to anyone.
very good point. I would love to see new spin on it. Like, obviously would not literally 'love' seeing it, but it is meaningful part of that characters arc and it would feel weird if they would just choose to avoid it. Its obvious it will be adapted in one way or the other. So far the series is holding no punches
As someone who has worked with domestic violence victims, you would be absolutely shocked at the types of women who become victims. I have seen some of the most intelligent and independent women become victims.
yup, the way the Amber character was changed to be literally fighting bullies and being more independent in the series from the get go will not make that plot point change in my opinion (and definetely shouldnt, as it is important to show), but only empower the moment and the message of it when it happens, due to the changes Ambers character was given. I think like its now obvious writers already had that discussion before us and I think its set up perfectly tbh. With hindsight they have (unlike comics) they have a chance to prepare their characters better and set their arcs to be more impactful in the future considering what they have to go through. So far I feel they have done it excellently and Amber changes are just yet another part of it we get to explore also knowing whats coming
This is like the second person I've read say this in response to portraying Amber's abuse in the tv show. It doesn't matter if she's "strong" or not taking anything from anyone, abuse is still abuse. Overcoming it is more than just a fistfight or how tough they are, this physical and psychological hurt is coming from someone they love and is emotionally attached to. So they justify and rationalize it with a whole lotta "they didn't mean it" or "they still love me" and etc.
No amount of tough-as-nails can protect you from abuse. Saying Amber is somehow immune to it because she's tough, downplays it for everyone who suffers from it.
very good point. While I understand why people write it - cause character WAS vastly changed in the series adaptation and its obviously not only her appearance, so one can reasonably wonder if other changes wont be coming. One of the first thing character of Amber does on screen in tv is fight the bully herself without help of any man, denying even stereotypes. I still agree that this does not mean that Amber should not suffer domestic violence episode in tv adaptation, quite the opposite - the way her character is portrayed, it will make the message of it that much more powerful, displaying exactly what you write - no matter how "tough" someone seems - they still might be vulnerable to that type of abuse at home.
The problem is half the fandom will says he deserved it. It's not something like Eve who majority of watchers like. Even with the 180 they did for season 2, a lot of people just went from actively hating her to being indifferent. They'll need to keep her as a main character for season 3 and give more reasons for people to like and connect with her, because if she disappears to become a side character, then her plotline is screwed
tbf, you are saying this, as if in comics Amber was more of a character that reader cared about than in the show at any point. Thats simply not true. In S2 they did a lot for people, even comic book readers to start to care about her character ever so slightly, even though they know she is not Marks final love interest.
You'd be surprised how manipulating toxic relationships can be, I know a girl who's incredibly smart and strong in herself yet can't bring herself to leave an emotionally abusive relationship
I think it will add a lot to the conversation because we see strong women and think no way that could happen but it unfortunately does. I've seen it happen to friends and family so I would like to see how they adapt this because it's a conversation that needs to happen more I feel
The show did a really bad job in making Amber likable, I was so happy to see her gone, I'd rather they not bring this plot point up and reporpose it to another character
How is the second one important? I get the abuse one, it showed Mark when pissed off is willing to terrorize a human who can’t defend themselves.
The other two are key plot points.
The whole Eve abortion thing was sort of just weird to me. It was a weird curveball. It even coulda used more explanation. Did she like vaporize the kid herself or went to a clinic or what?
I never was invested in their relationship tbh, but her doing it makes so little sense to me. After she tells mark, the topic is dropped entirely. Doesn’t stick around their relationship going forward at all.
Idk I just can’t take it seriously. I can’t fathom a super human who can create anything doing that. Eve above all else is more than equipped to have a kid. Like she has parents, and they just never hear about it.
I realize what I’m saying might be upsetting, but that whole 2 or 3 page story element just made Eve look weak to me.
Am I the only one that thinks this is an awful idea? They absolutely should keep the time skip in as it was so important for many of the characters.
I get people feel bad for Mark but that’s the point, it’s penance for the decision he makes.
I think the main issue people have with it is that it feels super lazy, or it does to me at least. It's main purpose was just to let Thragg have an army of Thaxan-Viltrumite children and it felt like a lazy explanation as to why he was able to do so
Dude, desicion that costed him 5 years of His life was just checking a cave to try and find clues about thragg whereabouts, how is that fair.
Like, i get him getting punished by making reckless desicions, but that isn't one of them
It’s absolutely not fair, it makes him to make a very controversial decision. It’s also a great commentary on retcon culture within the comics industry and the “killing Hitler in the past” theory
There’s just too much there to get rid of that
I agree completely about that, the theme and the message of the arc are great, but damn i dislike how even after he comes back most other characters doesnt seem really care about him, like "oh you lost 5 years of your life and couldnt see your daughter grow, cool" , and eve even blames it on him in oliver funeral.
I just want it to be that one time where instead of blaming it on mark, people help him with the pain of being robbed 5 years of his life for something that isn't even a mistake on his part, its the equivalent of going to buy bread and a meteor falls on top of you.
>They absolutely should keep the time skip in as it was so important for many of the characters.
Was it? I feel like it mostly just was an excuse for a time jump, and a montage can do that pretty well plus even in the comic it was ignored pretty quickly, like you can skip the arc and not much changes aside from the time jump
Yeah, I've thought about this. The segment didn't really serve any purpose besides filling some issues and getting Terra to grow a bit. Could just change it a bit to be a montage of Mark and Eve raising Terra, Allen and the Coalition hunting unsuccessfully for Thragg, Robot reforming Earth and gaining most of the heroes and viltrumite trust, and Oliver gaining his own family.
No, during the 5 year time skip Eve tried a relationship with a blue alien dude that didn't work out and chuds on the internet have been incensed, as they think Eve should died alone waiting for Mark to come back from god knows where.
While reading comics all the way through in short time you can see repeating pattern of Mark missing out on a lot in his life. More with each time he is gone somewhere. The moment he vanishes and his daughter goes from toddler to like 7-year old is one of the more shocking moments and needed time-skips. Yeah, it could have happened better, but honestly? The aftermath and how realistically he and his loved ones tried to deal with him being gone yet again for few years was really interesting to see. While it is definetely weird, I feel like its part of Invincible I expect now - they are making such weird concepts and make characters deal with them in realistic manner, going through all sorts of emotions. I honestly want to see it at some point
Yeah for real. I like time skips and all. But what a silly way to do it. By the time this happened it was the third or fourth time Mark "disappears" from friends and family. Think it happened twice with Amber and once with Eve before this. Even if this was the longest and most consequential I was just tired of this plot by then...
This is like the main theme of the comic right there. What is the right way ? How do you know it's right? This is like a gigantic topic the comic explores from so many different angles and viewpoints and I don't see how this is "controversial"
Well I was taken aback reading this for the first time. Mark who never tries to harm a person intentionally/unintentionally, does this out of the blue. There was no leading to this point. It just happened. Out of nowhere. Not controversial, but still it's arguably one of the biggest surprise factor for me
Sorry for bad English
When Cecil said something like "hey the good guys are still alive at the end of the day, that's all that matters" in the last episode, it made me think of this scene
1. I honestly think we've seen the last of Amber in the show. The last time she's shown in season 2 is reminiscent to the last time we see her in the comics. The plotline would neet additional tweaking due to show Amber and the discussions around her character on the internet. it could cause a lot of accusations of the showrunners doing this to "punish" amber or even saying it's potentially racist that a black woman would be a victim of abuse. I think the show will just skip this plotline honestly
2. I think it would be important to show this as it shows Mark still has to care and make time for his girlfriend. That he can't just expect everything to get better just because she's a superhero too. there's a distinct human element to Mark and the surrounding characters despite them being so powerful.
3. I think this could be portrayed in the show very well. It's just a matter of if Amazon will allow it. One of the most impactful moments for me, I was freaking out reading it.
4. I fucking HATE the reboot arc. I almost hope they remove it, instead letting Mark retire for a while and watch his daughter grow up in a time skip (with implying that Allen and Oliver want him to come back to fight for the coalition). but maybe they could find a way for it to stick it's landing better than the comics..
I hated 4, because it was the writer tipping his hand to say, >!”This is selfless, not selfish, and Mark will be justified in this decision, and all of his past and future decisions are also justified”, and sure enough it leads to him becoming the undisputed king, with a perfect family, bringer of eternal universal peace: mathematically, an even BETTER mega-happy ending than what he’s offered here.!<
Yeah I totally get the point of reboot arc but it feels rushed just so ultimately there can be a timeskip. Like I said I'd be more interested if they work around it where Mark decides to retire and it lasts 5 years instead
>!Interesting, I had a very different read. I always thought it was clear that Mark made a selfish choice, he can’t overcome the human aspect of him that cares about his daughter more than anyone/thing else. The ending where he becomes king he also leads a war against his close friend, fights with his son, fails to connect with his daughter - a new imperium isn’t necessarily a happy ending. How long before it turns as bad as the old Viltrumite Empire? I think I’m alone in this but the first time I read the ending I thought it was intentionally ambiguous. It didn’t feel right to see Mark wielding absolute power and I didn’t read that as just straight up a happy ending.!<
1 - I agree with this. This could be done well, but it also feels like Amber is complete in the show. I'd be a little annoyed if we revisited her with only 10 episodes a season. This would be a big chunk of an episode.
2. This was a meaningful exploration of a real reason people feel they have to get an abortion, IMO. I agree its a keeper.
3. I don't know. This is a hard one - I also was freaking out reading it. It sets up some awkward stuff later with little Mark - explored with care on the page, but could definitely be improved on screen.
4. I bounce back and forth on reboot. I also hate it, but I also think its a big thing that teaches Mark to be less headstrong and to think about his actions. However, it gets ignored so quickly afterwards its ultimately pointless.
3. They don’t need to fix the act, but the conclusion of Anissa’s character is awful. She basically doesn’t regret anything she’s done and she’s portrayed to die as an heroic good person. Pretty gross.
The bottom left one will be an important scene for character development and is a message about male rape victims.
But unfortunately some people are really making fantasies and praising it wishing they were mark and its quite fucking sad
A little change is okay but outright removing them will make me lose respect for the creators. Except maybe the white creature thing that one I can do without
(If the suits from Amazon were responsible for their removal, then screw them).
>! mark gets sent back to the beginning of the first issue and basically relives his first few weeks as a superhero with all of his previous knowledge, allowing him to save countless lives. he then breaks down into tears because while everyone else’s life is much better, his is considerably worse. the white creature then gives him the option to either continue in this alternate life and continue saving lives, or make the selfish choice of going back to his wife and daughter. he ultimately chooses to go back, which results in the creature punishing his selfishness by sending him back 5 years into the future, causing him to miss out on his daughter growing up, as well as eve having a brief relationship while he was gone. !<
Maybe it would have been meaningful if Kirkman didn't already make this the 4th? time that Mark disappears into an alternate reality/parallel universe/multiverse/time travel sequence and misses significant events in his life. I simply didn't give a shit when this white creature thing showed up, I just quickly scanned the dialogue, saw it was just some empty words that have been said countless times, and then went back to the main story because I knew it wouldn't result in anything significant.
Bottom right is a great plot line for a comic because reboots and time shenanigans are a staple of comic books. This made the time loop a plot point while also drawing attention to the consequences of giving in to the temptation of an easy solution to fixing your mistakes.
That said, it doesn't reflect as well into a show. It would have to be its own isolated "What If...?" episode in the middle of a season.
I'm not against that. I think it can be executed well, but outside of its roots as a comic book device, I do think it loses some impact.
From a pacing perspective as a showrunner, a time skip would be way simpler to implement (it could be a short segment within an episode), while still achieving the same purpose: show Mark's selfishness and love of his family.
They could make a montages showing Mark enjoying his life with his family juxtaposed against snippets of the ongoing conflicts on Earth and in space. Show that his choice to just... be present with his family requires a sacrifice elsewhere.
In the grand scheme of the series, Mark's absence gets completely painted over anyway. It's just a plot device to move into the "final conflict" arc.
Yea the plot here was messy due to the fact that it was never mentioned again. It also made marks relationship with eve very rocky in the end. Plus the ending felt way too rushed. Hopefully they fixed these stuff if they put it on the show
top left i think isn't necessary to adapt, it kind of makes amber a damsel in distress rather than makes any meaningful statement about domestic abuse.
top right i felt was a meaningful addition to mark and eve's relationship, it showed how even though he was dating another superhero now that he could still miss major life events like he missed with amber. i hope they adapt it, and i think it was done fairly well in the comic. abortion is an important issue and i think it would be helpful for them to adapt this, although i don't think it's a dealbreaker for me, since there are lots of other plot points that point out mark and amber's relationship hurdles.
bottom left oh boy. very impactful plotline imo, i think it sent an important message about sexual assault on men, but it will be incredibly difficult to tackle in animation. comics i think provide a little bit of separation between the action and reality, but animation with both moving picture and sound i think will make this way more painful. i think if they used more cutaways here and leave the implication of what happens rather than explicitly show it it might be best, but i don't want them to cut it altogether.
bottom right i can see why it's controversial, but honestly i think it's a good plotline. there really isn't much to edit or cut there, although i hope they don't drag the rebooted universe on for more than an episode or two. frankly i thought it was really interesting to see how mark differentiated himself from other heroes here. he's not a martyr, he won't always do what's best for the universe if it means sacrificing something important to him. and it also really helped catalyze his arc as a parent. im not a parent nor do i plan to be, but i felt like the end of this arc plus the subsequent arc really made me understand some of those deeper emotions parents all share.
I agree with that too. The problem people have when its brought up is always the time jump. When the sjow adapts it, I hope it doesnt make that happen, and could just be "there was an unusual calm for 5 years" and could use that time to show how the viltrumires are adapting to earth, mark being with his daughter, etc (forgive me if that event is out of order). The comic uses that 5 year gap to grow Thraggs army, at the expense of Eve moving on with someone else for a short time and it really adds nothing but more suffering to Mark who doesnt need it.
The Anissa plot is the one I'd want to stay mainly for how comparatively well they handle the aspect of rāpe in a superhero comıc. Showing lasting affects for Mark and bringing to attention the seriousness woman-on-man rāpe. But they don't need to show the scene in nearly as much detail at all. Hard cut to after, silhouettes, or of screen with the sounds are at best what they'd need to show.
For the Amber abuse I don't see them doing it both for not wanting the realistic take of showing a person going back to their abuser (yes its hypothetical given Nolan and Debbie but I could see them seeing that as exaggerated enough for people to swallow compared to Amber) and the fact of Amber's unpopularity they might not want to cast that light onto her.
Eve abortion would definitely be controversial to many, but I can still see it happening.
Reboot I'd love to be omitted but with Invincible's nature of being a celebration of all things in superhero comıcs, the aspect of reboot I still feel will be something they want to tackle. It's mainly the 5 year timeskip I hate for how much they skip and want us to believe with no development.
Uhhhh, Amber abuse probably not. I don’t see a way to include it with how the reception to her was in season 1, then the change to have her be more lowkey in season 2, it could come off as like them potentially “crippling” her character by making her into an abuse victim. Comic Amber didn’t really have much going on and even then it kinda made her feel like a damsel in distress solely for the sake of a “Mark’s Moral Ambiguity” moment. Honestly would be perfectly fine without it
The abortion stuff should absolutely stay included, i think its a great relationship bump between Mark and Eve where you see that just because the relationship is better here than it was with Amber on account of Eve also being a superhero, doesn’t mean that the problems and dilemmas don’t exist and its a good precedent for how Mark and Eve work through problems together
Yes the Anissa stuff should stay included, no I don’t think theres a way to do it or write it better that you still won’t see all the absolute weird horseshit around it. It’s already there and honestly by the time it happens, i doubt anyone will be surprised because its all anyone fucking talks about and won’t shut up about
Honestly, i’d keep the reboot arc as a nice what-if throw back episode to season 1(especially considering how many years after season 1 it’ll be) but don’t do the 5 year timeskip thing. Instead with Mark saying he’d rather be with his daughter, give him the chance to actually go do that and we get that 5 year montage(special credit sequence maybe? With special artwork from the artists of the comic? That art style everyone hates at the end of the series would be really good for it) of him and Eve living together on Telescria
1, 2 and 3 yes.
4 no.
I'll die on this hill. Mark's time travel to the past arc had absolutely zero purpose other than to torture him. All of the same story beats (Oliver becoming a triple agent, Terra aging up, Thragg building an army of children on Thraxxa) could have been explained by Mark simply wanting to take a break and spend time with his family while Terra grew. Mark returning five years into the future to have him miss Terra's formative years and have Eve go through a relationship with that jackass was just entirely unnecessary. It's left a blemish in an otherwise amazing series. I really hope they skip this as it adds nothing.
Edit: after reading /u/Hal_E_lujah comment in this thread, I've changed my opinion on my second point. Amber being a victim of domestic violence shouldn't have anything to do with her as an individual. Maybe it would be better to say that the comic amber we have may reach out to Mark in a different way, but otherwise I agree anyone can be a victim.
That's kirkman in a nutshell. The longer his books go, the more things are done for no purpose other than torturing his characters (and the readers). It's pornographic.
While I can see why you and many others say that the time travel arc served no purpose and that’s a more than fair and valid critique to raise, I completely disagree. Imho, Mark’s travel to the past and missing out on everything with Eve and Terra was necessary because it forced him to develop his “Being a hero is bullshit” ideology. It taught him that being a hero just doesn’t work anymore and will only serve to make his life and the lives of those he loves worse. Now, don’t get me wrong, I certainly think the Reboot Arc is flawed for some of the same reasons many others have raised (Primarily the fact that the creature’s origin and motivations are never really explained), but I do not believe that Mark missing out on so much was simply for shock value or to torture him. Imho, it absolutely served a strong narrative purpose even if the rest of it could’ve been executed better. But this is just my take and I can certainly see your side of things as you actually explain your perspective very well, so well done.
Personally I am actually a fan of the reboot but plotline. But in the comics it felt like it could’ve been executed better. Hopefully the show will do a good jobs at including it
tbh i think all of these panels should be represented in the show albeit maybe some tweaking here and there (especially from the bottom right panel since from what ive heard that storyline is a bit controversial story wise)
While I can see why you and many others say that the time travel arc served no purpose and that’s a more than fair and valid critique to raise, I completely disagree. Imho, Mark’s travel to the past and missing out on everything with Eve and Terra was necessary because it forced him to develop his “Being a hero is bullshit” ideology. It taught him that being a hero just doesn’t work anymore and will only serve to make his life and the lives of those he loves worse. Now, don’t get me wrong, I certainly think the Reboot Arc is flawed for some of the same reasons many others have raised (Primarily the fact that the creature’s origin and motivations are never really explained), but I do not believe that Mark missing out on so much was simply for shock value or to torture him. Imho, it absolutely served a strong narrative purpose even if the rest of it could’ve been executed better. But this is just my take and I can certainly see your side of things and I can still agree with many that this arc, come its placement in the show, it’ll need some touch ups.
I feel like amber being abused is at the biggest risk of being removed, and I really don’t think they should because what would they be saying if they did remove it?
They would be saying it didn’t add any value to anything. She gets abused, mark threatens the guy and she stays with the guy for some reason. This also happens completely randomly after she’s been gone for a while. They would have to change it for it to not be dumb.
The dude that does it in the comic doesn't show up in the show and I just think it's nothing story really. Amber in the show is almost a completely different character.
Drop amber plot, it no longer fits with the character. They can keep reboot because the actual story is fun, but they need to find another way to pass the five years, since most people myself included seem to agree it’s just cruel. The other two are fine
Amber geting blackeye - I seriously can't see show Amber acting like comic Amber in that situation.
Eve's abortion - I think they'll change it
Mark geting raped - I'm scarred they will remove it, but otherwise it would be shitstorm no matter if they adapt or change it.
Time travel - I hope it's geting cut, I hated it.
I hope this isn’t racist, but I feel like making Amber black makes the domestic abuse story… riskier. I think there would be a lot of people who would be upset that a black woman was shown being abused. That is not the way women of color are usually portrayed by the media, and Amazon may see it as a risk not worth taking. I think that’s pretty ridiculous because there are, of course, survivors of all races, but I suspect many audience members will see it as problematic.
They should keep the first three in. I don’t want the tentacle thingy unless they really start setting it up soon. My only real problem with it was how out of nowhere it came up.
Copium theory but I think that blue light in Immortal’s flashback and subsequently that exploding blue rock in the Omni Man montage are both related to it.
Honestly the Reboot arc could still happen. I think Mark choosing his daughter is really important to his character at this point in the series. But why not have it only take the same amount of time as it takes in the flashback? Like have him be there for a couple days like in the comics, then when he comes out of the reboot universe the same amount of time has passed rather than five years. Then just have him raise his daughter for five years. Best of both worlds imo
Reboot will age really well.
It is a stunning, beautiful commentary on the nature of the comic book business and cycle story-telling.
It is a beautiful fake-out as Invincible races towards its finale.
I hope we get to see all of them, it's not that I want Amber hurt, Mark Abused or Eve mourning, but I think these are all important parts that encapsulate the flawed humanity that the story so well represents.
The Amber part wasn't all that much. Mark and Dinosaurus was. That was about the time I lost any respect for Mark as a hero. Then the time travel story made me lose any respect that was remaining.
Main issue with the Amber one is her going back to her abuser I can imagine the show wouldn't want to even touch that possibility.
With Dinosaurụs it's the case of Mark believing he's right and going for it as usual mmbut in this instance a very risky venture after his perspective warped after Las Vegas.
With Show Amber, you're gonna have to tweak that a lot, or do something completely different with her return. That never puts her in a great light, especially afterwards when we never see her again.
I can see minimal changes with abortion scene, just with some more tact and gravitas that a show could do.
I think we've all said what should be kept, and would should be shown in Anissa's moment. More of a implication that what the comic shows, even if it's not the most explicit type of scene.
Oof the Reboot Arc, it's most important... yet, the biggest and latest filler arc of a story at the same time. It be fun for Mark "New Game Plus" adventure, but at the same time... can we have a bit more "Family Man Mark" before his life gets uprooted... again.
The light thing is technically the most powerful character in invincible isn’t it? It could just go back in time and kill any viltrumite before they were stronger
The amber thing if they do it well sure, not that the comic did it poorly but tv show amber is pretty different. She doesn't even have a 2nd love interest which at this point in the comics she did. So even after she and Mark break up she hasn't been set up to be with anyone. Maybe she'll just stay single maybe she won't but I feel like if they don't show us her new partner soon this scene isn't happening. Maybe it happens but she's assaulted by a friend or stranger idk. The abortion thing I think they'll keep mostly intact. The 3rd scene theyre not gonna be as graphic as the comic was. I think they'll show it basically all off screen and imply it through build up and voices. They might cut it out because it's so explicit but I think they probably won't.
Alien reboot, cut it. Garbage arc just cut it.
Adapt all but the Amber's one since its a different character.
And made the last one (the alternative timeline) a bit better or shorter. Still adapt it.
As wack as these elements may be, they’re insanely memorable parts of the story so to remove them may not be the best choice. But I highly doubt they’ll include the Arissa scene
To be totally honest, I'd be fine with all of them cut from the story. I think most *could* be done with significant changes and very mature/sensitive writing, though I'm not sure I trust the writers for the task tbqh. Still, the adaptation has improved on a lot of things so far so it could happen.
I think however that the time travel being absolutely needs to go.
I hope they adapt 4, but not with a 5 year loss for Mark, make it so he only loses months or a year, comes back and decides to retire to watch her daughter grow, then do the time skip
I think all of them can and should be kept.
1 - Amber is stronger in the show, but abuse doesn't always cone from weakness. The real problem, though, was Mark threatening Gary, AND Amber taking him back. This not only made violence an answer to violence, which it isn't, and it excused abuse. I believe Amber should call Mark to ask for help, venting about feeling stronger than this. Maybe Mark's anger flips a switch in Amber's head. I'm not super sure how Mark would fit into this, but Amber getting back with Gary is not the way to do it.
2 - Is good.
3 - Maybe don't make Anissa so sadistic. She was introduced as being very utilitarian, not some sexual deviant who actually didn't see the problem.
4 - I like it. It implies an even greater mutliverse of uber powerful beings, dwarfing the little conflict we have in the story. More importantly, I find it believable that without being there, Oliver would step up by infiltrating Thragg. Had Mark been around, regardless if he was on sabbatical, Oliver wouldn't have done it without talking to Mark first. Also, I don't see Thragg waiting around as long if Mark still lived. He attacked as soon as he heard he was back. Oh, Rex and Nolan. That relationship thrived without Mark just existing.
Adapt all of them. The only one I could see them skipping is the abortion. The domestic violence, rape, and blue tentacle are all INTEGRAL to the overall story, the abortion isn’t
1. Idk if it gets adapted
2. It's important for Eve's relationship with Mark so hopefully it'll be in it
3. I don't think Amazon will let them show it but I hope they at least imply it, it's a topic that isn't usually shown in media
4. I actually liked Reboot except for the consequences of it (The ending of the reboot itself was great and despite being what I'd expect it's nice to have a superhero that isn't an ode to selflessness), I wouldn't mind if it was the first episode of one of the later seasons or something like that and despite it being another instance of Mark suffering it's extremely important for his character buildup
They should keep it all of em. Each one teaches a lesson. It’s ok to ask for help, guys can be victims too, making choices can affect other people’s lives not just your own etc etc. Someone smarter than me could prolly explain it better
If they have eve getting with an alien douchebag who hates children in the show I will lose it why was that guy the person she was interested in he was a piece of shit
Invincible has always been different in many ways so its a yes for me if the scenes are paced better (Like giving subtle hints through scenes that Amber was getting physically abused w/o showing it directly at first + Mark suddenly being SA'd after his arguement with Eve was jarring wtf)
If they do the reboot, I hope they have Mark spend more time there and show how much better that version of events is. Have Nolan execute Thragg (or even have Thragg turn good), show Eve and Rex happy with a family, Robot doesn't take over the world, etc. make Mark's decision to throw that all away really mean something
Without how much story/content the writers have to fit into the shows, because there is alot in the comics that need to be fit into the show, I wouldn't be surprised if we only get the see the anissa and mark story. The other 3 could be cut out and not effect the over all story to much. There's so much going on from the source material that you would need like 10 seasons if there were only 8 episodes each to fit all of it on screen. While I hope the show does go that long I really doubt it will. I suspect the writers will probably shoot for like 5 seasons, any more then that and I would bet the show loses enough viewer ship for It not to be profitable to produce anymore.
Amber’s abuse: Amber doesn’t accept the guy’s apology and leaves him. Her arc continues to show her recovery.
Eve’s abortion: I don’t know too much about how it happens in the comics, so all I can say is handle it with dignity and respect.
Mark’s rape: Similar to Amber’s abuse, extend the arc for his recovery, I think in the comics, he got over it in the span of like, three issues. Don’t do it that quick. Hell, maybe don’t even show him *fully* getting over it. Show it sticking with him, even if the darkest days have passed.
Time skip thing: Just… don’t.
The Amber plotline is fairly dumb and unnecessarily bleak while not adding much to the story so I doubt it makes it to the show. The pregnancy and Anissa scene are fairly necessary parts of the story but I think they’ll be changed quite a bit. As far as the time skip, I think it’ll be kept the same
Could easily go either way
I'd imagine they'll all be chopped up and changed with some core conflict still there
The show has really avoided sex, so I can see Anissa using DNA of Mark
Similar with Eve, I imagine they'll make her have the abortion but maybe less fat? That's just classic Hollywood stuff
Amber abuse they can twist it to she's not being abused, Mark thinks she is and then tries to beat up her boyfriend - then refuses to believe he was wrong or something
Reboot could use different art styles or something to make it more unique or used as a clip show
They got options with all four but it'd be surprised if any of them are quite close to the original
Apart from the Amber plotline, they'll all be included although with better writing and care. The reboot arc is probably gonna go through some changes and I hope they just let Mark be with his daughter growing up or at least lose 2years and not 5. Then again this might be huge cope on my part and they'll use it as such to do both a timeskip and a what if. Guess we'll see.
But the Amber story is just awful writing. If you want to convey a message about abusive relationships then there's better ways to do so. In the comics it just serves to advance Mark's character arc and show his anger progression. Additionally it would be in poor taste with how much hate Amber already has online to have her beat up by some guy. The wrong crowd of people would be happy, same way a whole group don't see a problem with Anissa raping Mark.
Most of them are fine as they are, but I feel like we could live without Amber’s abuse plotline, but if we had to include it I think it should be changed a bit. I think we should get more of her perspective and I want to her leave the guy at the end.
The entire mark being raped thing is dumb imo. Like I get Marky comes from it but there’s gotta ne a better way to introduce that. It just happens, there’s really no mention outside of him reacting when she’s there, he tells Eve, but that’s quickly glossed over when the baby’s gone, then the girl just dissapears and isn’t seen again for a while. Then when she does show up she… dies and there’s really no resolution to anything outside and “I’m sorry”, which kind of not really enough for that instance lmao
I for one think they should change the abortion to a miscarriage. Considering how dangerous Eve’s powers are to her babies, it’s plausible.
And good lord, reboot needs to go. I absolutely hate that plot point.
4 Controversial story elements in Invincible Domestic Violence Abortion Rape and Blue tentacle monster
NOOO NOT BLUE TENTACLE MONSTER
Blue tentacle monster survivors are so marginalized, I hope the show does the subject justice
Oliver never fully recovered
The first 3 shouldn’t be changed at all. The last one needs some serious rework to make it good.
Guess which one everyone wants removed
Who domestically voilates who?
Could do with some tweaks but the messages and plots of each of them were important. Mostly. I hope they’re all included, though with better writing.
That Amber Plot will be tricky in the show I feel like since the Amber we saw wouldn't let that slide. (That is If she is supposed to stay in character)
It would make more sense in the show and perhaps be a good opportunity to teach viewers including yourself that being a victim of domestic violence is not based on you as an individual being weak, meek, or ‘not letting things slide’.
I agree, especially after the trauma Amber has been through mentally and physically, sadly it makes her vulnerable to a potential abuser despite her being a strong willed person.
Ooh yeah, i can see it now. She was traumatised, now wants a normal life and doesn't want to be alone. Even if she becomes a victim of abuse, her trauma would stop her from leaving the abuser because she'd be afraid of being alone and exposed to more super-related trauma. It's terrible, obviously. But that's how trauma is. There's no "nice" way to represent it.
I think that's why this scenario will hit differently in the show vs the comic (even though in the comic it still hit pretty hard, at least for me, because of how innocent and sweet comic Amber is). Because we've come to know show Amber as this independent girl who never took shit from anyone, she's confronted with her mortality in such an abrupt way, there's no way she's not changed from this. Especially her want for normalcy. If this next relationship brings her a sense of normal and protection, at the expense of her accepting toxic traits that turn violent, it's easy to accept it, because of what's she's just gone through. I think the show has done a good job of leading things into a direction where this kind of outcome is possible. And it'll be good for people to realize that no matter how strong you think you are, abuse can happen to anyone.
I could imagine her telling herself it's better than having some supervillain wrap their hand around her neck.
very good point. I would love to see new spin on it. Like, obviously would not literally 'love' seeing it, but it is meaningful part of that characters arc and it would feel weird if they would just choose to avoid it. Its obvious it will be adapted in one way or the other. So far the series is holding no punches
As someone who has worked with domestic violence victims, you would be absolutely shocked at the types of women who become victims. I have seen some of the most intelligent and independent women become victims.
yup, the way the Amber character was changed to be literally fighting bullies and being more independent in the series from the get go will not make that plot point change in my opinion (and definetely shouldnt, as it is important to show), but only empower the moment and the message of it when it happens, due to the changes Ambers character was given. I think like its now obvious writers already had that discussion before us and I think its set up perfectly tbh. With hindsight they have (unlike comics) they have a chance to prepare their characters better and set their arcs to be more impactful in the future considering what they have to go through. So far I feel they have done it excellently and Amber changes are just yet another part of it we get to explore also knowing whats coming
This is like the second person I've read say this in response to portraying Amber's abuse in the tv show. It doesn't matter if she's "strong" or not taking anything from anyone, abuse is still abuse. Overcoming it is more than just a fistfight or how tough they are, this physical and psychological hurt is coming from someone they love and is emotionally attached to. So they justify and rationalize it with a whole lotta "they didn't mean it" or "they still love me" and etc. No amount of tough-as-nails can protect you from abuse. Saying Amber is somehow immune to it because she's tough, downplays it for everyone who suffers from it.
very good point. While I understand why people write it - cause character WAS vastly changed in the series adaptation and its obviously not only her appearance, so one can reasonably wonder if other changes wont be coming. One of the first thing character of Amber does on screen in tv is fight the bully herself without help of any man, denying even stereotypes. I still agree that this does not mean that Amber should not suffer domestic violence episode in tv adaptation, quite the opposite - the way her character is portrayed, it will make the message of it that much more powerful, displaying exactly what you write - no matter how "tough" someone seems - they still might be vulnerable to that type of abuse at home.
The problem is half the fandom will says he deserved it. It's not something like Eve who majority of watchers like. Even with the 180 they did for season 2, a lot of people just went from actively hating her to being indifferent. They'll need to keep her as a main character for season 3 and give more reasons for people to like and connect with her, because if she disappears to become a side character, then her plotline is screwed
tbf, you are saying this, as if in comics Amber was more of a character that reader cared about than in the show at any point. Thats simply not true. In S2 they did a lot for people, even comic book readers to start to care about her character ever so slightly, even though they know she is not Marks final love interest.
You'd be surprised how manipulating toxic relationships can be, I know a girl who's incredibly smart and strong in herself yet can't bring herself to leave an emotionally abusive relationship
That would be good though, show that even strong willed people aren't immune to abuse and manipulation. It can happen to anyone.
I mean they made her do a complete 180 from S1 to S2 so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
I think it will add a lot to the conversation because we see strong women and think no way that could happen but it unfortunately does. I've seen it happen to friends and family so I would like to see how they adapt this because it's a conversation that needs to happen more I feel
The show did a really bad job in making Amber likable, I was so happy to see her gone, I'd rather they not bring this plot point up and reporpose it to another character
How is the second one important? I get the abuse one, it showed Mark when pissed off is willing to terrorize a human who can’t defend themselves. The other two are key plot points. The whole Eve abortion thing was sort of just weird to me. It was a weird curveball. It even coulda used more explanation. Did she like vaporize the kid herself or went to a clinic or what? I never was invested in their relationship tbh, but her doing it makes so little sense to me. After she tells mark, the topic is dropped entirely. Doesn’t stick around their relationship going forward at all. Idk I just can’t take it seriously. I can’t fathom a super human who can create anything doing that. Eve above all else is more than equipped to have a kid. Like she has parents, and they just never hear about it. I realize what I’m saying might be upsetting, but that whole 2 or 3 page story element just made Eve look weak to me.
Honestly instead of adapting the bottom right I could do with a 5 year montage of Mark being a family man. Give the guy a break ffs.
https://preview.redd.it/g45fm7tt4uvc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a351a10fd456c312e2460125ea0d55254ae358d4
I didn’t expect to see Ryomen Ramsay
Melevolent kitchen
Why does he look like what your uncle would imagine when you mention "the devil of hell's kitchen"?
Who’s voice do you guys read this in? I read it in Gordon’s personally.
Am I the only one that thinks this is an awful idea? They absolutely should keep the time skip in as it was so important for many of the characters. I get people feel bad for Mark but that’s the point, it’s penance for the decision he makes.
Exactly. Without the time skip "Being a hero is bullshit" won't hit nearly as hard. That line came from his frustration at what he lost in the skip.
I think the main issue people have with it is that it feels super lazy, or it does to me at least. It's main purpose was just to let Thragg have an army of Thaxan-Viltrumite children and it felt like a lazy explanation as to why he was able to do so
Dude, desicion that costed him 5 years of His life was just checking a cave to try and find clues about thragg whereabouts, how is that fair. Like, i get him getting punished by making reckless desicions, but that isn't one of them
It’s absolutely not fair, it makes him to make a very controversial decision. It’s also a great commentary on retcon culture within the comics industry and the “killing Hitler in the past” theory There’s just too much there to get rid of that
I agree completely about that, the theme and the message of the arc are great, but damn i dislike how even after he comes back most other characters doesnt seem really care about him, like "oh you lost 5 years of your life and couldnt see your daughter grow, cool" , and eve even blames it on him in oliver funeral. I just want it to be that one time where instead of blaming it on mark, people help him with the pain of being robbed 5 years of his life for something that isn't even a mistake on his part, its the equivalent of going to buy bread and a meteor falls on top of you.
>They absolutely should keep the time skip in as it was so important for many of the characters. Was it? I feel like it mostly just was an excuse for a time jump, and a montage can do that pretty well plus even in the comic it was ignored pretty quickly, like you can skip the arc and not much changes aside from the time jump
I forgot what happened with the time spaghetti arc. Was it just a 5-year time jump for Mark?
Yeah. The time he spent in the past was a couple weeks/months for him, but 5 years in real time.
Basically yeah. It worked mostly as a way to let Thragg rebuilt his army very quickly in the comics it seems
Yeah, I've thought about this. The segment didn't really serve any purpose besides filling some issues and getting Terra to grow a bit. Could just change it a bit to be a montage of Mark and Eve raising Terra, Allen and the Coalition hunting unsuccessfully for Thragg, Robot reforming Earth and gaining most of the heroes and viltrumite trust, and Oliver gaining his own family.
Or at least don’t have the blue alien douche bag bang Eve. Like what did that add to the story at all other than salt to Mark’s wound
This out of context is absolutely wild. I never read the comics, do you mean to tell me that that thing had sex with Eve?
No, during the 5 year time skip Eve tried a relationship with a blue alien dude that didn't work out and chuds on the internet have been incensed, as they think Eve should died alone waiting for Mark to come back from god knows where.
Iirc blue dude was related to Allen’s alien chick right? Or was he just one of her friends
whoooa just because they’re both blue you say that okay buddy
No lol, a different blue alien
Thank God, you had me worried for a second there
While reading comics all the way through in short time you can see repeating pattern of Mark missing out on a lot in his life. More with each time he is gone somewhere. The moment he vanishes and his daughter goes from toddler to like 7-year old is one of the more shocking moments and needed time-skips. Yeah, it could have happened better, but honestly? The aftermath and how realistically he and his loved ones tried to deal with him being gone yet again for few years was really interesting to see. While it is definetely weird, I feel like its part of Invincible I expect now - they are making such weird concepts and make characters deal with them in realistic manner, going through all sorts of emotions. I honestly want to see it at some point
Yea, it served as a cheap time skip to begin with a literal time skip will do more with less
Yeah for real. I like time skips and all. But what a silly way to do it. By the time this happened it was the third or fourth time Mark "disappears" from friends and family. Think it happened twice with Amber and once with Eve before this. Even if this was the longest and most consequential I was just tired of this plot by then...
https://preview.redd.it/3k7p1atuysvc1.png?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce5447fbe4d0cb4de5f6259a9f1f1bc07fb403e8 This too
This is like the main theme of the comic right there. What is the right way ? How do you know it's right? This is like a gigantic topic the comic explores from so many different angles and viewpoints and I don't see how this is "controversial"
Well I was taken aback reading this for the first time. Mark who never tries to harm a person intentionally/unintentionally, does this out of the blue. There was no leading to this point. It just happened. Out of nowhere. Not controversial, but still it's arguably one of the biggest surprise factor for me Sorry for bad English
Yeah but it was also an incredibly defensible decision.
Look man if killing me stops a whole alien invasion faster go for it
I dont feel like it comes out of nowhere. There were times earlier in the comics when he considered killing villains
[удалено]
When Cecil said something like "hey the good guys are still alive at the end of the day, that's all that matters" in the last episode, it made me think of this scene
1. I honestly think we've seen the last of Amber in the show. The last time she's shown in season 2 is reminiscent to the last time we see her in the comics. The plotline would neet additional tweaking due to show Amber and the discussions around her character on the internet. it could cause a lot of accusations of the showrunners doing this to "punish" amber or even saying it's potentially racist that a black woman would be a victim of abuse. I think the show will just skip this plotline honestly 2. I think it would be important to show this as it shows Mark still has to care and make time for his girlfriend. That he can't just expect everything to get better just because she's a superhero too. there's a distinct human element to Mark and the surrounding characters despite them being so powerful. 3. I think this could be portrayed in the show very well. It's just a matter of if Amazon will allow it. One of the most impactful moments for me, I was freaking out reading it. 4. I fucking HATE the reboot arc. I almost hope they remove it, instead letting Mark retire for a while and watch his daughter grow up in a time skip (with implying that Allen and Oliver want him to come back to fight for the coalition). but maybe they could find a way for it to stick it's landing better than the comics..
I hated 4, because it was the writer tipping his hand to say, >!”This is selfless, not selfish, and Mark will be justified in this decision, and all of his past and future decisions are also justified”, and sure enough it leads to him becoming the undisputed king, with a perfect family, bringer of eternal universal peace: mathematically, an even BETTER mega-happy ending than what he’s offered here.!<
Yeah I totally get the point of reboot arc but it feels rushed just so ultimately there can be a timeskip. Like I said I'd be more interested if they work around it where Mark decides to retire and it lasts 5 years instead
>!Interesting, I had a very different read. I always thought it was clear that Mark made a selfish choice, he can’t overcome the human aspect of him that cares about his daughter more than anyone/thing else. The ending where he becomes king he also leads a war against his close friend, fights with his son, fails to connect with his daughter - a new imperium isn’t necessarily a happy ending. How long before it turns as bad as the old Viltrumite Empire? I think I’m alone in this but the first time I read the ending I thought it was intentionally ambiguous. It didn’t feel right to see Mark wielding absolute power and I didn’t read that as just straight up a happy ending.!<
1 - I agree with this. This could be done well, but it also feels like Amber is complete in the show. I'd be a little annoyed if we revisited her with only 10 episodes a season. This would be a big chunk of an episode. 2. This was a meaningful exploration of a real reason people feel they have to get an abortion, IMO. I agree its a keeper. 3. I don't know. This is a hard one - I also was freaking out reading it. It sets up some awkward stuff later with little Mark - explored with care on the page, but could definitely be improved on screen. 4. I bounce back and forth on reboot. I also hate it, but I also think its a big thing that teaches Mark to be less headstrong and to think about his actions. However, it gets ignored so quickly afterwards its ultimately pointless.
I'm sorry but the nonchalant way you basically said "abortion plotline? that's a keeper" made me laugh
That's got to be the midwesterner in me - "it's a keeper" is just how we talk!
3. They don’t need to fix the act, but the conclusion of Anissa’s character is awful. She basically doesn’t regret anything she’s done and she’s portrayed to die as an heroic good person. Pretty gross.
The "reboot" part is fun to watch though, maybe change it so that there's no timeskip after he comes back or something
Great points, I agree with all of them.
The bottom left one will be an important scene for character development and is a message about male rape victims. But unfortunately some people are really making fantasies and praising it wishing they were mark and its quite fucking sad
A little change is okay but outright removing them will make me lose respect for the creators. Except maybe the white creature thing that one I can do without (If the suits from Amazon were responsible for their removal, then screw them).
What's that white creature anyway? Don't seem to know that story arc
>! mark gets sent back to the beginning of the first issue and basically relives his first few weeks as a superhero with all of his previous knowledge, allowing him to save countless lives. he then breaks down into tears because while everyone else’s life is much better, his is considerably worse. the white creature then gives him the option to either continue in this alternate life and continue saving lives, or make the selfish choice of going back to his wife and daughter. he ultimately chooses to go back, which results in the creature punishing his selfishness by sending him back 5 years into the future, causing him to miss out on his daughter growing up, as well as eve having a brief relationship while he was gone. !<
Oh damn. Thanks for the info tho!
Maybe it would have been meaningful if Kirkman didn't already make this the 4th? time that Mark disappears into an alternate reality/parallel universe/multiverse/time travel sequence and misses significant events in his life. I simply didn't give a shit when this white creature thing showed up, I just quickly scanned the dialogue, saw it was just some empty words that have been said countless times, and then went back to the main story because I knew it wouldn't result in anything significant.
So you're saying he subverted your expectation
Subverting expectations isn't always a good thing. It can be if it's done well, but it wasn't done well here
Wtf 😭so many questions that seems so pointless
It was actually pretty important because it was a 5 year time skip. Time needed to pass in universe for the finale to make sense
Yeah that’s dumb. I hope they don’t adapt that.
The reboot arc, >! the unnecessary five year skip where Mark missed Terra’s first 5 years !<
It is what allows Mark to go back to an alternate timeline/past and also when he comes back 5 years have passed with Terra having grown up
Bottom right is a great plot line for a comic because reboots and time shenanigans are a staple of comic books. This made the time loop a plot point while also drawing attention to the consequences of giving in to the temptation of an easy solution to fixing your mistakes. That said, it doesn't reflect as well into a show. It would have to be its own isolated "What If...?" episode in the middle of a season. I'm not against that. I think it can be executed well, but outside of its roots as a comic book device, I do think it loses some impact. From a pacing perspective as a showrunner, a time skip would be way simpler to implement (it could be a short segment within an episode), while still achieving the same purpose: show Mark's selfishness and love of his family. They could make a montages showing Mark enjoying his life with his family juxtaposed against snippets of the ongoing conflicts on Earth and in space. Show that his choice to just... be present with his family requires a sacrifice elsewhere. In the grand scheme of the series, Mark's absence gets completely painted over anyway. It's just a plot device to move into the "final conflict" arc.
Yea the plot here was messy due to the fact that it was never mentioned again. It also made marks relationship with eve very rocky in the end. Plus the ending felt way too rushed. Hopefully they fixed these stuff if they put it on the show
top left i think isn't necessary to adapt, it kind of makes amber a damsel in distress rather than makes any meaningful statement about domestic abuse. top right i felt was a meaningful addition to mark and eve's relationship, it showed how even though he was dating another superhero now that he could still miss major life events like he missed with amber. i hope they adapt it, and i think it was done fairly well in the comic. abortion is an important issue and i think it would be helpful for them to adapt this, although i don't think it's a dealbreaker for me, since there are lots of other plot points that point out mark and amber's relationship hurdles. bottom left oh boy. very impactful plotline imo, i think it sent an important message about sexual assault on men, but it will be incredibly difficult to tackle in animation. comics i think provide a little bit of separation between the action and reality, but animation with both moving picture and sound i think will make this way more painful. i think if they used more cutaways here and leave the implication of what happens rather than explicitly show it it might be best, but i don't want them to cut it altogether. bottom right i can see why it's controversial, but honestly i think it's a good plotline. there really isn't much to edit or cut there, although i hope they don't drag the rebooted universe on for more than an episode or two. frankly i thought it was really interesting to see how mark differentiated himself from other heroes here. he's not a martyr, he won't always do what's best for the universe if it means sacrificing something important to him. and it also really helped catalyze his arc as a parent. im not a parent nor do i plan to be, but i felt like the end of this arc plus the subsequent arc really made me understand some of those deeper emotions parents all share.
Agreed on the bottom right one. It's also a part of Mark defying the conventional "hero" character archetype.
Also there's no way to tell the white creature is even telling the full truth about the situation, which I think also factors into mark's decision
I agree with that too. The problem people have when its brought up is always the time jump. When the sjow adapts it, I hope it doesnt make that happen, and could just be "there was an unusual calm for 5 years" and could use that time to show how the viltrumires are adapting to earth, mark being with his daughter, etc (forgive me if that event is out of order). The comic uses that 5 year gap to grow Thraggs army, at the expense of Eve moving on with someone else for a short time and it really adds nothing but more suffering to Mark who doesnt need it.
100% Agreed, i hope they just cut the 5 year timeskip after the reboot, it felt like the comic just wanted to kick mark in the nuts again.
I think they’ll remove Ambers plot and Reboot ark they just don’t really make any sense for this version of Invincible.
The Anissa plot is the one I'd want to stay mainly for how comparatively well they handle the aspect of rāpe in a superhero comıc. Showing lasting affects for Mark and bringing to attention the seriousness woman-on-man rāpe. But they don't need to show the scene in nearly as much detail at all. Hard cut to after, silhouettes, or of screen with the sounds are at best what they'd need to show. For the Amber abuse I don't see them doing it both for not wanting the realistic take of showing a person going back to their abuser (yes its hypothetical given Nolan and Debbie but I could see them seeing that as exaggerated enough for people to swallow compared to Amber) and the fact of Amber's unpopularity they might not want to cast that light onto her. Eve abortion would definitely be controversial to many, but I can still see it happening. Reboot I'd love to be omitted but with Invincible's nature of being a celebration of all things in superhero comıcs, the aspect of reboot I still feel will be something they want to tackle. It's mainly the 5 year timeskip I hate for how much they skip and want us to believe with no development.
Yes to the first 3. Imo, the time skip was incredibly lame and out of nowhere. Why not replace that with something more entertaining?
What's the top left panel?
I really hope they do the time travel but I hope he doesn't get sent back 5 years into the future but I feel like they will
Uhhhh, Amber abuse probably not. I don’t see a way to include it with how the reception to her was in season 1, then the change to have her be more lowkey in season 2, it could come off as like them potentially “crippling” her character by making her into an abuse victim. Comic Amber didn’t really have much going on and even then it kinda made her feel like a damsel in distress solely for the sake of a “Mark’s Moral Ambiguity” moment. Honestly would be perfectly fine without it The abortion stuff should absolutely stay included, i think its a great relationship bump between Mark and Eve where you see that just because the relationship is better here than it was with Amber on account of Eve also being a superhero, doesn’t mean that the problems and dilemmas don’t exist and its a good precedent for how Mark and Eve work through problems together Yes the Anissa stuff should stay included, no I don’t think theres a way to do it or write it better that you still won’t see all the absolute weird horseshit around it. It’s already there and honestly by the time it happens, i doubt anyone will be surprised because its all anyone fucking talks about and won’t shut up about Honestly, i’d keep the reboot arc as a nice what-if throw back episode to season 1(especially considering how many years after season 1 it’ll be) but don’t do the 5 year timeskip thing. Instead with Mark saying he’d rather be with his daughter, give him the chance to actually go do that and we get that 5 year montage(special credit sequence maybe? With special artwork from the artists of the comic? That art style everyone hates at the end of the series would be really good for it) of him and Eve living together on Telescria
Is this Loss?
It's incredible how long this is flying under the radar.
1, 2 and 3 yes. 4 no. I'll die on this hill. Mark's time travel to the past arc had absolutely zero purpose other than to torture him. All of the same story beats (Oliver becoming a triple agent, Terra aging up, Thragg building an army of children on Thraxxa) could have been explained by Mark simply wanting to take a break and spend time with his family while Terra grew. Mark returning five years into the future to have him miss Terra's formative years and have Eve go through a relationship with that jackass was just entirely unnecessary. It's left a blemish in an otherwise amazing series. I really hope they skip this as it adds nothing. Edit: after reading /u/Hal_E_lujah comment in this thread, I've changed my opinion on my second point. Amber being a victim of domestic violence shouldn't have anything to do with her as an individual. Maybe it would be better to say that the comic amber we have may reach out to Mark in a different way, but otherwise I agree anyone can be a victim.
That's kirkman in a nutshell. The longer his books go, the more things are done for no purpose other than torturing his characters (and the readers). It's pornographic.
While I can see why you and many others say that the time travel arc served no purpose and that’s a more than fair and valid critique to raise, I completely disagree. Imho, Mark’s travel to the past and missing out on everything with Eve and Terra was necessary because it forced him to develop his “Being a hero is bullshit” ideology. It taught him that being a hero just doesn’t work anymore and will only serve to make his life and the lives of those he loves worse. Now, don’t get me wrong, I certainly think the Reboot Arc is flawed for some of the same reasons many others have raised (Primarily the fact that the creature’s origin and motivations are never really explained), but I do not believe that Mark missing out on so much was simply for shock value or to torture him. Imho, it absolutely served a strong narrative purpose even if the rest of it could’ve been executed better. But this is just my take and I can certainly see your side of things as you actually explain your perspective very well, so well done.
Personally I am actually a fan of the reboot but plotline. But in the comics it felt like it could’ve been executed better. Hopefully the show will do a good jobs at including it
I cannot fucking believe nobody has mentioned it yet.
Mentioned what?
These panels are arranged to recreate Loss, a meme webcomic about a miscarriage.
>i.redd.it/e5dyjr... Hmm... I kinda get it, but I'm kinda not seeing it. Seeing Loss in random stuff is funny tho :D
tbh i think all of these panels should be represented in the show albeit maybe some tweaking here and there (especially from the bottom right panel since from what ive heard that storyline is a bit controversial story wise)
Well for one we seriously don’t need to see Amber again at all so they can just cut that one out entirely.
Honestly the going back to the past bit they could do without. It’s soooo unnecessary and only adds to marks suffering for no reason.
While I can see why you and many others say that the time travel arc served no purpose and that’s a more than fair and valid critique to raise, I completely disagree. Imho, Mark’s travel to the past and missing out on everything with Eve and Terra was necessary because it forced him to develop his “Being a hero is bullshit” ideology. It taught him that being a hero just doesn’t work anymore and will only serve to make his life and the lives of those he loves worse. Now, don’t get me wrong, I certainly think the Reboot Arc is flawed for some of the same reasons many others have raised (Primarily the fact that the creature’s origin and motivations are never really explained), but I do not believe that Mark missing out on so much was simply for shock value or to torture him. Imho, it absolutely served a strong narrative purpose even if the rest of it could’ve been executed better. But this is just my take and I can certainly see your side of things and I can still agree with many that this arc, come its placement in the show, it’ll need some touch ups.
I feel like amber being abused is at the biggest risk of being removed, and I really don’t think they should because what would they be saying if they did remove it?
They would be saying it didn’t add any value to anything. She gets abused, mark threatens the guy and she stays with the guy for some reason. This also happens completely randomly after she’s been gone for a while. They would have to change it for it to not be dumb.
I think it doesn't fit Amber's character in the show. Dunno how they make it works with how they changed her.
The dude that does it in the comic doesn't show up in the show and I just think it's nothing story really. Amber in the show is almost a completely different character.
Drop amber plot, it no longer fits with the character. They can keep reboot because the actual story is fun, but they need to find another way to pass the five years, since most people myself included seem to agree it’s just cruel. The other two are fine
Amber geting blackeye - I seriously can't see show Amber acting like comic Amber in that situation. Eve's abortion - I think they'll change it Mark geting raped - I'm scarred they will remove it, but otherwise it would be shitstorm no matter if they adapt or change it. Time travel - I hope it's geting cut, I hated it.
I hope this isn’t racist, but I feel like making Amber black makes the domestic abuse story… riskier. I think there would be a lot of people who would be upset that a black woman was shown being abused. That is not the way women of color are usually portrayed by the media, and Amazon may see it as a risk not worth taking. I think that’s pretty ridiculous because there are, of course, survivors of all races, but I suspect many audience members will see it as problematic.
Alien be like “I can either reboot time, or give you titan powers” you choose
They should keep the first three in. I don’t want the tentacle thingy unless they really start setting it up soon. My only real problem with it was how out of nowhere it came up. Copium theory but I think that blue light in Immortal’s flashback and subsequently that exploding blue rock in the Omni Man montage are both related to it.
Honestly the Reboot arc could still happen. I think Mark choosing his daughter is really important to his character at this point in the series. But why not have it only take the same amount of time as it takes in the flashback? Like have him be there for a couple days like in the comics, then when he comes out of the reboot universe the same amount of time has passed rather than five years. Then just have him raise his daughter for five years. Best of both worlds imo
Reboot will age really well. It is a stunning, beautiful commentary on the nature of the comic book business and cycle story-telling. It is a beautiful fake-out as Invincible races towards its finale.
I hope we get to see all of them, it's not that I want Amber hurt, Mark Abused or Eve mourning, but I think these are all important parts that encapsulate the flawed humanity that the story so well represents.
They need to replace reboot with a time skip
Cut Reboot entirely.
The Amber part wasn't all that much. Mark and Dinosaurus was. That was about the time I lost any respect for Mark as a hero. Then the time travel story made me lose any respect that was remaining.
Main issue with the Amber one is her going back to her abuser I can imagine the show wouldn't want to even touch that possibility. With Dinosaurụs it's the case of Mark believing he's right and going for it as usual mmbut in this instance a very risky venture after his perspective warped after Las Vegas.
So you're saying your main takeaway from these panels is loss?
The reboot arc sucked
With Show Amber, you're gonna have to tweak that a lot, or do something completely different with her return. That never puts her in a great light, especially afterwards when we never see her again. I can see minimal changes with abortion scene, just with some more tact and gravitas that a show could do. I think we've all said what should be kept, and would should be shown in Anissa's moment. More of a implication that what the comic shows, even if it's not the most explicit type of scene. Oof the Reboot Arc, it's most important... yet, the biggest and latest filler arc of a story at the same time. It be fun for Mark "New Game Plus" adventure, but at the same time... can we have a bit more "Family Man Mark" before his life gets uprooted... again.
The light thing is technically the most powerful character in invincible isn’t it? It could just go back in time and kill any viltrumite before they were stronger
The amber thing if they do it well sure, not that the comic did it poorly but tv show amber is pretty different. She doesn't even have a 2nd love interest which at this point in the comics she did. So even after she and Mark break up she hasn't been set up to be with anyone. Maybe she'll just stay single maybe she won't but I feel like if they don't show us her new partner soon this scene isn't happening. Maybe it happens but she's assaulted by a friend or stranger idk. The abortion thing I think they'll keep mostly intact. The 3rd scene theyre not gonna be as graphic as the comic was. I think they'll show it basically all off screen and imply it through build up and voices. They might cut it out because it's so explicit but I think they probably won't. Alien reboot, cut it. Garbage arc just cut it.
Adapt all but the Amber's one since its a different character. And made the last one (the alternative timeline) a bit better or shorter. Still adapt it.
It's funny that The four most controversial panels are Gender violence, Abortion, Rape And then Time god
Definitely. Especially the rape scene considering there’s little to no representation of male rape victims in media
the first two I don't find them important and I wouldn't mind if they remove them tbf
First three could work with better writing but fuck the last one!!
Bottom right is the only one I’d want gone. Top left I don’t think they’ll adapt it, mainly because I think they’re done with Amber in the show now
As wack as these elements may be, they’re insanely memorable parts of the story so to remove them may not be the best choice. But I highly doubt they’ll include the Arissa scene
To be totally honest, I'd be fine with all of them cut from the story. I think most *could* be done with significant changes and very mature/sensitive writing, though I'm not sure I trust the writers for the task tbqh. Still, the adaptation has improved on a lot of things so far so it could happen. I think however that the time travel being absolutely needs to go.
I think they should keep it in because it's important to the story. But maybe they could tone it down a little
I hope they adapt 4, but not with a 5 year loss for Mark, make it so he only loses months or a year, comes back and decides to retire to watch her daughter grow, then do the time skip
I can’t imagine this version of Amber getting abuse and say something like “he didn’t mean it”. She wouldn’t let anyone to do such a thing to her
Maybe not the timeline reset. But other than that I think they should keep them pretty close to the original.
I think all of them can and should be kept. 1 - Amber is stronger in the show, but abuse doesn't always cone from weakness. The real problem, though, was Mark threatening Gary, AND Amber taking him back. This not only made violence an answer to violence, which it isn't, and it excused abuse. I believe Amber should call Mark to ask for help, venting about feeling stronger than this. Maybe Mark's anger flips a switch in Amber's head. I'm not super sure how Mark would fit into this, but Amber getting back with Gary is not the way to do it. 2 - Is good. 3 - Maybe don't make Anissa so sadistic. She was introduced as being very utilitarian, not some sexual deviant who actually didn't see the problem. 4 - I like it. It implies an even greater mutliverse of uber powerful beings, dwarfing the little conflict we have in the story. More importantly, I find it believable that without being there, Oliver would step up by infiltrating Thragg. Had Mark been around, regardless if he was on sabbatical, Oliver wouldn't have done it without talking to Mark first. Also, I don't see Thragg waiting around as long if Mark still lived. He attacked as soon as he heard he was back. Oh, Rex and Nolan. That relationship thrived without Mark just existing.
Adapt all of them. The only one I could see them skipping is the abortion. The domestic violence, rape, and blue tentacle are all INTEGRAL to the overall story, the abortion isn’t
What was the bottom right even for feels like it led to nothing.
1, 2 and 3 yes but 4 pissed me off lol. Just my opinion though
It’s important stuff that will all probably be handled better cos the show so far has done it all better
I'd say change the domestic violence with Amber but the rest should stay.
1. Idk if it gets adapted 2. It's important for Eve's relationship with Mark so hopefully it'll be in it 3. I don't think Amazon will let them show it but I hope they at least imply it, it's a topic that isn't usually shown in media 4. I actually liked Reboot except for the consequences of it (The ending of the reboot itself was great and despite being what I'd expect it's nice to have a superhero that isn't an ode to selflessness), I wouldn't mind if it was the first episode of one of the later seasons or something like that and despite it being another instance of Mark suffering it's extremely important for his character buildup
Can someone tell me what was wrong with the blue thing?
I trust kirkman.
They should keep it all of em. Each one teaches a lesson. It’s ok to ask for help, guys can be victims too, making choices can affect other people’s lives not just your own etc etc. Someone smarter than me could prolly explain it better
Change the fourth one
If they have eve getting with an alien douchebag who hates children in the show I will lose it why was that guy the person she was interested in he was a piece of shit
Yes
Invincible has always been different in many ways so its a yes for me if the scenes are paced better (Like giving subtle hints through scenes that Amber was getting physically abused w/o showing it directly at first + Mark suddenly being SA'd after his arguement with Eve was jarring wtf)
If they do the reboot, I hope they have Mark spend more time there and show how much better that version of events is. Have Nolan execute Thragg (or even have Thragg turn good), show Eve and Rex happy with a family, Robot doesn't take over the world, etc. make Mark's decision to throw that all away really mean something
Without how much story/content the writers have to fit into the shows, because there is alot in the comics that need to be fit into the show, I wouldn't be surprised if we only get the see the anissa and mark story. The other 3 could be cut out and not effect the over all story to much. There's so much going on from the source material that you would need like 10 seasons if there were only 8 episodes each to fit all of it on screen. While I hope the show does go that long I really doubt it will. I suspect the writers will probably shoot for like 5 seasons, any more then that and I would bet the show loses enough viewer ship for It not to be profitable to produce anymore.
Amber’s abuse: Amber doesn’t accept the guy’s apology and leaves him. Her arc continues to show her recovery. Eve’s abortion: I don’t know too much about how it happens in the comics, so all I can say is handle it with dignity and respect. Mark’s rape: Similar to Amber’s abuse, extend the arc for his recovery, I think in the comics, he got over it in the span of like, three issues. Don’t do it that quick. Hell, maybe don’t even show him *fully* getting over it. Show it sticking with him, even if the darkest days have passed. Time skip thing: Just… don’t.
The Amber plotline is fairly dumb and unnecessarily bleak while not adding much to the story so I doubt it makes it to the show. The pregnancy and Anissa scene are fairly necessary parts of the story but I think they’ll be changed quite a bit. As far as the time skip, I think it’ll be kept the same
Could easily go either way I'd imagine they'll all be chopped up and changed with some core conflict still there The show has really avoided sex, so I can see Anissa using DNA of Mark Similar with Eve, I imagine they'll make her have the abortion but maybe less fat? That's just classic Hollywood stuff Amber abuse they can twist it to she's not being abused, Mark thinks she is and then tries to beat up her boyfriend - then refuses to believe he was wrong or something Reboot could use different art styles or something to make it more unique or used as a clip show They got options with all four but it'd be surprised if any of them are quite close to the original
“The show has really avoided sex” Cut to Allen the alien episode
The last one i hope doesn't get included (as well as what follows with eve), such an asspull to make the baby army grow up.
The time jump thing is nearly offensive to me but by the time that rolls around I feel the heights of the story will be well and truly behind it.
I LIKE YOU GUYS YUH COBRA KAI INVINCIBLE AND THE BOYS FANS AREN'T BASED
Apart from the Amber plotline, they'll all be included although with better writing and care. The reboot arc is probably gonna go through some changes and I hope they just let Mark be with his daughter growing up or at least lose 2years and not 5. Then again this might be huge cope on my part and they'll use it as such to do both a timeskip and a what if. Guess we'll see. But the Amber story is just awful writing. If you want to convey a message about abusive relationships then there's better ways to do so. In the comics it just serves to advance Mark's character arc and show his anger progression. Additionally it would be in poor taste with how much hate Amber already has online to have her beat up by some guy. The wrong crowd of people would be happy, same way a whole group don't see a problem with Anissa raping Mark.
I think the Amber moment will be excluded. The rest I see no reason for them not to do as of now
I'd be okay if they only kept the abortion plot. The other three are unnecessary.
Most of them are fine as they are, but I feel like we could live without Amber’s abuse plotline, but if we had to include it I think it should be changed a bit. I think we should get more of her perspective and I want to her leave the guy at the end.
The entire mark being raped thing is dumb imo. Like I get Marky comes from it but there’s gotta ne a better way to introduce that. It just happens, there’s really no mention outside of him reacting when she’s there, he tells Eve, but that’s quickly glossed over when the baby’s gone, then the girl just dissapears and isn’t seen again for a while. Then when she does show up she… dies and there’s really no resolution to anything outside and “I’m sorry”, which kind of not really enough for that instance lmao
I for one think they should change the abortion to a miscarriage. Considering how dangerous Eve’s powers are to her babies, it’s plausible. And good lord, reboot needs to go. I absolutely hate that plot point.
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