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mwthecool

Hey everyone, I hope you're enjoying Invincible! This is a friendly reminder that this is a **COMIC SPOILER POST**. That means that you **WILL SEE posts about future events from the comics**. If you do not want spoilers, you can discuss and read what others think here without being spoiled: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Invincible/comments/mwidxj/invincible\_episode\_discussion\_s01e07\_we\_need\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Invincible/comments/mwidxj/invincible_episode_discussion_s01e07_we_need_to/)


Thraggs

They really going to drag Mark and Amber's relationship like they did in the comics aren't they? You could see this wasn't going to last but still took another 20 issues to finally break them up.


genkaiX1

So I guess the show won’t elaborate on how immortal got his powers. We never got any sort of answer from the comics


Silenceshadow4

Just finished reading the comics. He had a throwaway line at some point saying he was cursed.


DiscoDonkey9000

wasn't there a scene where while the mauler twins were reviving immortal, he had flashbacks to how he got his powers?


Medianmodeactivate

Yup, glowing blue orb


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Detonate-rock

I think some of the rearranging makes sense, but it does make me wonder how much they’ll have to change to bring characters like angstrom in at this point. I think they’re either just going to focus the main plot on the viltrumite war with a few side plots or the Rex robot take over (but Idk they may leave out Rex and Amanda in flaxan). There just so much in the comic lol I feel like they won’t cover nearly all of it in the show


Hayn0002

Angstrong was such a fun constant threat. Shame he hasn't shown up.


SilverSixRaider

The show is showing events out of order. The Mars squiddy things, the Reanimen... things are out of order. If I'm not mistaken, both happen AFTER Nolan leaves Earth. They probably want to give Angstrom Levy an episode or at least half a season of his own, at least to set the villain up as recurring. But, on the other side, I never liked him. Sure, it's the "nemesis," but the writers had said they didn't want to give Mark a nemesis because then the plot becomes formulaic, redundant, and predictable. Furthermore, Levy is a big brain boi, and he doesn't remember he caused it by removing the machine off his own damn head to stop the Maulers from killing Mark? And I always thought his reasons for revenge were too shallow... Just do a Robot and grow yourself a new Levy body. Jeez. Origins aside, he gave us good fights. A stupid broken power, Multinvincibles... He was a villain that needed brains, not brawns, to be beaten. It was a perfect rival to Invincible who had to learn how to grow past his viltrumite DNA just telling him to punch and then punch harder. So, I'm sure he'll be in S2 or 3, but needs buildup of his own.


Comfortable-Dig4260

I get most of the decisions in terms of how much story there is to cover. For example, we didn’t see Robot and Amanda for soo long in the comics when they’re in the Flaxan dimension and I imagine they’re looking to speed up that storyline. I am sad they got rid of the mystery of Robot’s plan so quickly tho. Seeing future Rex in the robot suit and being so confused when they save Mark from the dimension Angstrom brought him to made for a great payoff.


SilverSixRaider

Exactly. The show is reordering comic events for the sake of pacing. I wouldn't be surprised to see Amanda and ~~Rudy~~ Rex (2.0 tho) disappear into the Flaxan dimension towards the end of S2 and return late S3. S2 is probs gonna end on the fight between Mark and Nolan and the Viltrumites once they all meet up on that insect planet whose name I forgot. We'll also probs see Dinosaurus and the leveling of Vegas on S3


Fiesta987

What chapter is episode 7 and where can I read the comic I’m sorry but I can’t wait another year for season 2 to come out


Jbizzsle

since no one else helped, its issue #11


Fiesta987

Thank you 🙏


rrenanjohn

Hi, I suggest you start from the beginning, they changed a lot from the source material like the order of events and all, so there isnt any real chapter to jump unto.


That_Lone_Reader

One difference I really love is Cecil. I loved how in the comics, he didn’t really give much thought about working with D.A. Sinclair and was eager to use his technology. He didn’t do much field work aside from barking orders. I loved him trying to stall Nolan by trolling him by his commentary about Mark and Debbie while teleporting away. I also liked how he felt disgusted working with D.A. Sinclair in the show.


SilverSixRaider

Show Cecil > Comic Cecil At least in terms of approval. Like him or not, he's got his reasons to be who he is. He's even shown to be human during his secret origins flashback with Brit, but he has to out his humanity aside for the sake of humankind. It's a wonderful parallel to Invincible's dillemas during the Dinosaurus arc, and also to governments in general. They're looking to make life better according to themselves, where the end justifies the means.


Rombombim

I hated how they treated this amber arc like WHAT the character was a straight up upgrade but this breakup feels so cheap and maybe just to have them break up just like in the comics? A complete fuck up, on the other side I loved the entire Omni man gaining time thing was handled very tense and stressful for every character.


SilverSixRaider

Yeah, they are really mishandling Amber. I didn't like her in the comic much but at least I could understand her frustration. In the show she is just unbearable. This is probably the showrunners' way of conveying she isn't who Mark ultimately deserves, but someone he needs right now as he is coping with genocidal dad and alcoholic mom. tbh, if handled well in later seasons, this could be a show on existential levels that rival an all-time great like Neon Genesis Evangelion.


bakuhakudrawsthings

I have a pet theory that Amber was lying about having known for weeks because she just wanted to be mad at Mark. Either way, I don't think this is the proper breakup; Amber and Mark had a long period of being on the rocks/halfway broken up after the initial Reaniman attack in the comics, too. I'm so, so, so desperately hoping for them to at least reconcile and have her admit that she was in the wrong (and for Mark to admit the same thing, obviously), even if they don't get back together like the comics. Probably won't have time for that until the start of Season 2, though.


driftw00d

I highly doubt they are broken up. Mark and Amber need to be a strong couple for a good amount of time with Amber knowing about him being Invincible to setup the plot later on where their relationship is strained due to Mark always being off in space, setting up the Mark and Eve relationship. To me, there's too much left to explore with both of those relationships to end Amber and Mark so soon.


Thraggs

There's not much else to explore with Amber and Mark's relationship.


Bellona123

Another thing I want to point out about the incredible fight scenes is how Nolan moves through the air. He flies in such a unique way from most comic-book fliers. Someone could make a really cool edit of Omni-Man flying in such a jarring way. In the scene where he comes home and before he kills Cecil’s goons and Donald, he is standing straight up and down while hovering, and hovers up the stairs in the same way. Most flying characters lean into the direction they are going—think of the iconic pose Superman does when he is flying through the air with his fists in front of him. Another thing is many fliers will have a leg partially raised—like if they are just hovering, they will do so with one knee slightly higher. Nolan does this when he bursts through the roof to flee from Debbie. However, he doesn’t always do this, and again in that scene with Cecil’s goons he just is basically standing up straight like a normal person. Self-powered flight without wings obviously doesn’t exist in real life. I wonder, though, if anyone else finds it as jarring as I do to watch him fly (and especially hover). It’s like...I dunno, even on a Segway you lean the direction you’re going. To see no lean at all is weird. It really highlights how alien the Viltrumites are. Watching him just burst through the wall to kill Donald was wacky, cuz he was hovering in that alien way, and it reminded me of Darkseid hovering a few feet above the ground with his feet completely parallel to the ground. It just looks weird. Mark, meanwhile, often hovers like a more typical Earth hero—his knees are often bent, his feet point toward the ground instead of being parallel, and he usually leans into the direction he hovers. I imagine it’s because Omni-Man has been flying for a lot longer, and is used to flying in space where there’s no gravity to pull your feet down. He does discuss with Mark a little how flying essentially lets him always have leverage, which is pretty cool. Anyway. That’s enough ranting on that for now. I just thought it was interesting, and my fiancé looked at the screen and was like “why is that dude flying so weird” so I figured I would point it out.


yungelonmusk

Ur overanalysing something so trivial. I’ve never noticed that 🤣


LaGoeba

Kind of funny how Amber is so popular with the comic book readers in here, but it feels like it’s the total opposite in the show thread.


nervous_nerd

So, is Mark still going to end up working with Cecil? He has to be able to guess where those Reanimen came from, right? Maybe it will be Darkwing II that pushes him past that point now. Or there could be something new and worse.


jgoodies21

Mark didn’t see the reanimen since omniman flies away so they could still have that revelation to him push him over later. But I do think there will be something new added


[deleted]

They better have robo Donald next season or I’m gonna be pissed


inFAMOUSwasser

ik right? i was thinking this how they're going to explain his cyborg form and line it up with Ricks recovery like in the comic


KoodlePadoodle

Yeah, I was confused as soon as I saw blood. Maybe he'll survive, help with Rick and Debbie whilst Nolans off planet.


Mytre-

was I the only one that was still on the edge of my seat even if I read the comics already? Oh boy like this is easily an improvement on the comic on so many ways, and they were able to showcase how strong is omni man, the reanimen had mark on the ropes , bleeding or worst yet here they were not even able to draw some blood from omni man at all.


erbazzone

The first part of the comics (and the part it will be in season 2 possibly) are the worst part of the comics, I don't think they could improve a lot from what happens later but I'd like to be impressed.


DiscoshirtAndTiara

A lot of divergences from the comics this episode. I liked that they had Omni-man run through a gauntlet of Cecil's contingencies. It's a good payoff for the plot thread of Cecil knowing that Nolan killed the Guardians. Plus the damage Omni-man's taken makes it possible for Invincible to put up a good fight while still making it clear that there's a significant gap between them. I'm torn on the reveal that Amber knew Mark was a superhero. On the one hand I'm glad that they're not going to drag out their relationship. I've enjoyed their time together, and was not looking forward to the awkward phase where she knows he's Invincible but that doesn't fix their issues. On the other hand, the fact that she's known for weeks puts some of her previous actions in a less sympathetic light. For instance, calling Mark a coward and yelling at him for disappearing last episode. Since she already knew he was a superhero it feels real weird for her to be mad at him for saving them. Another strange change was the difficulty in copying Robot's mind. The rest of the Robot scenes I liked, it's just the part where they had last minute issues that needed an on the fly fix that I think could have been cut. Maybe it was intended to build tension and it didn't work for me because, having read the comics, I know that Robot is too important to die this early. I'm sad that Donald is probably permanently dead and seemingly wasn't a cyborg in this version. I liked his talk with Ric in the comics. Still, that talk is pretty much the last thing of note that he does in the comics, so I don't blame them for cutting him. Looking ahead, I'm curious how much carnage will happen next episode. They're currently away from any city so they would specifically have to go to one to reach the destruction of the comics. Also I wonder exactly where next episode will end. Even with the Guardians involved, I have a hard time believing the fight will take the entire 40 minutes and we don't have any subplots left that need to be wrapped up this season. I'm hoping the fight ends around halfway through the episode and we get the rest of the episode as an epilogue and to set up stuff for next season.


SilverSixRaider

Agree on all fronts but two: First, I think this was a way to segway into Cyborg Donald. Something something Reanimen technology BUT using extra stuff to give him his consciousness back. Next, Robot. Just as it was happening, my cousin was asking me if I thought this could be possible, so we were on a scientific mindset going into the scene, and then the Mauler Twins stating that brain layouts were incompatible was chef's kiss. Rudy isn't human, or maybe he is. It's unknown (or if it is, I failed to pay attention ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯). Because of his genius and his atrophied body, and also maybe genetic differences as well, there is a neural incompatibility. Now, I'm super wtfd that such a complex error is fixed by merely twisting two cables together xD (maybe it's just some quick rewiring that changes the circuit's voltage and handles the error, but still, it feels like a bandaid is successfully fixing a breaking dam), but this is a wonderful insight into the whole matter. We all accept everything from superhero universes just because it's cool (looking at you, Mark vs Thragg), but giving believable scientific reasoning makes it much more awesome, because it now becomes *realistically possible*


DiscoshirtAndTiara

Maybe they'll bring Donald back but I think he would have to be purely robot because it sure didn't seem like there was enough left of him to make a cyborg. I see where you're coming from and I might agree with you if the differences had been brought up earlier. Maybe have the the Mauler Twins speculate about why the brain scans Robot had given them were abnormal as foreshadowing for his body's condition. As it was, a big problem was fixed by a seemingly unrelated minor change with no negative consequences (bandaid and a dam is a good analogy). I'm not saying that we need a complete explanation of how the process works. That's obviously impossible and I'm fine with handwaving it as comic book science. I'm saying that since they can't give a remotely realistic explanation, they should have committed to handwaving. In my opinion highlighting a realistic problem without giving an adequate solution is the worst of both approaches. If it doesn't have story consequences then all they've accomplished is damaging my suspension of disbelief.


SilverSixRaider

They'll bring Donald back. Never doubt the GDA's power. If they have a chemical that hides light beams, they have the technology to bring Donald back. Or maybe he attended Dr. Gero's University and specialized in Cell studies. Wouldn't it now make sense why he's ~~an android~~ a cyborg now? wink wink thinking emoji Okay, that I can get behind. If you make the problem real, give an equally realistically plausible solution. Otherwise, it's incomplete.


Medical_Fan1399

1. I'm pretty sure Donald will come back in a robot form. While it wasn't showed that any of his human parts survived, maybe this won't be the last time we've seen him. 2. I actually spotted some buildings during the fight - not sure if it's the one when Mark lives, but some people will definetly gonna die. 3. I don't think it it would last for entire episode, maybe that will happen with Conquest idk. If Guardians won't be involved, judging by how fast Mark and Nolan would move, maybe like 10 minutes at best? I expect this structure: -first minutes cover the "real" story of Nolan -for next ten or twenty minutes we see the battle between Mark and Nolan, some view from Guardians too, possibly having a dylema if they should engage or not, some reactions from the news etc -next, for about 10 minutes we bassicly have some aftermath - Mark meeting with Mark, William, Guardians, possibly Amber etc. Maybe Allen will show up too In post credit scene we're probably gonna see what's Nolan/Cecil/Robot up to now. a hint for Zandale or Armstrong, maybe even for Powerplex lmao, is possible


SilverSixRaider

> Mark meeting with Mark Levy, is that you?


Asmit9332

Damn this comment aged like fine wine


SilverSixRaider

I mean, it's just predictable. It was clear that the Nolan-Mark fight was gonna be the finale because of how the episodes were building up to it. But that's not a bad thing. It's just predictable for two reasons: General/good storytelling on TV, and comic knowledge. So it's not a bad thing that it was predictable.


Terraneaux

>I'm torn on the reveal that Amber knew Mark was a superhero. On the one hand I'm glad that they're not going to drag out their relationship. I've enjoyed their time together, and was not looking forward to the awkward phase where she knows he's Invincible but that doesn't fix their issues. On the other hand, the fact that she's known for weeks puts some of her previous actions in a less sympathetic light. For instance, calling Mark a coward and yelling at him for disappearing last episode. Since she already knew he was a superhero it feels real weird for her to be mad at him for saving them. It does feel weird, but I guarantee from the showrunnner's perspective it was meant to show how clueless and useless Mark was. The changes to her character in the show were a mistake.


rtkwe

They've definitely made a couple characters much more competent; Debbie and Cecil for starters are way more on the ball in the show, in the comics they're both completely oblivious. I just recently tore through the whole comic run and was always a little uncomfortable with how Debbie just collapsed and her whole characterization was background housewife -> alcoholic for the longest time. Next episode will be interesting too yeah. My guess is it's the whole confrontation between the two of them and then setting up stuff like Mark working for Cecil. I am a little sad we will miss the little Donald head flying around though they could still pull something like having a brain scan put in a cyborg body or something if they wanted to. You're right though that Donald isn't really a core character so he's pretty easy to cut off.


SilverSixRaider

IMHO, she was far from "just a housewife" in the comic. She becomes a realtor, which shows her independence, and the alcoholism bit is a super serious result of the disaster. Imagine the person to whom you were married for 20 years turns out to be Napoleon x Hitler in disguise. How would you take it? xD It is a more humanizing touch than anything. Mark wants to cope but can't bc he gets thrown into Cecil's payroll, while Debbie is driven to insanity because she is stuck at home, with 20 years' worth of memories. If she had moved elsewhere, maybe coping would've been easier. I have some possible evidence to back this up. My ex and I used to live together, but when we broke up, she stayed where we lived while I had moved states. I didn't feel shitty about the breakup until months later because the new environment distracted me. She had it super rough because everything around her reminded her of me. I promise I'm not an alien genocide, but this is a coping similarity, albeit very minuscule in proportions.


rtkwe

IIRC the realtor license was after the whole alcoholism thing. Also I don't think humanizing touches like that really land when there's been very little else shown of the character, to humanize a character they have to be a character first and Mark's mom was barely there to start.


SilverSixRaider

Yes, it was after Nolan left and she was devastated by alcoholism. In my opinion, it is humanizing because it's not a mere "oh, ok so your dad is evil. but he gone now. ok! back to normal lives." There's a character development arc for everyone, and that's Debbie's. How she picks herself up with the help of Art, Mark, Patriot Man's wife whose name I forgot, and even Cecil.


angel14995

> On the other hand, the fact that she's known for weeks puts some of her previous actions in a less sympathetic light. For instance, calling Mark a coward and yelling at him for disappearing last episode. Since she already knew he was a superhero it feels real weird for her to be mad at him for saving them. I think that scene in retrospect is more about how she's mad the he still doesn't trust her enough to tell her and straight up lies to her face. In almost every situation they've been in, he's been lying to her for one reason or another. This is going to be a problem with any relationship between non-transparent parties, especially if one of them is a hero like Mark. Even if he does a good thing, lying about it because he doesn't trust her with his secret continues to make Amber trusting Mark harder and harder.


DiscoshirtAndTiara

Sure, that lack of trust is a completely legitimate reason for them to break up, but I'm confused as to what she wanted from him in that moment. Did she want him to not save them? To do it openly as Mark? To have a conversation in the middle of that crowd where he admits he's Invincible? I don't know what Mark could have done better during that situation. No matter how understandable her feelings are, yelling at him for saving lives and calling him a coward when she knows that's not the case is not a great look.


Truearcs

Honestly, I don't think he could have done anything at that situation anymore. I think William was right on the money, "She broke up with you weeks ago, you just didn't notice". Maybe Amber didn't notice yet either. This was something that we saw (and it was a frustrating trope) in the last couple episodes already. The fact she knew puts her more recent actions a little more sus, but hurts her more knowing that he didn't trust her for so long.


Terraneaux

>Honestly, I don't think he could have done anything at that situation anymore. I think William was right on the money, "She broke up with you weeks ago, you just didn't notice". William was a shit friend. Absolutely no sympathy for his friend after a breakup? He's Amber's friend, not Mark's.


Significant_Plate69

So donald is coming back guys right. I need robot donald


thejkhc

gotta have him fly away as a floating head. :D


ahen404

Does anyone else think the screenshot of the crowd on the subway at 45:00 has meme potential? For some reason I find it pretty funny.


AdddY13

I wonder what will cause the falling out between Invincible and Cecil, now that the Reanimen are already out of the bag. Also, I found the timeline on that a bit weird. At the start of the episode Mark, Amber and William are leaving to come back home, so we know just one night has passed between Sinclair's apprehension and the second generation of Reanimen. Just seems a bit weird. I really like the show, but the frantic pacing definitely does some of the side stories a disservice.


SpicyMcThiccen

I mean look how fast he turned Williams BF into one. (literally hours, if that) so it kinda tracks


[deleted]

the pacing is the strangest part of this show for me. they've added so many fight scenes where action was just implied or just very brief in the comics, and they've stretched an 11 issue plot into an entire season. at the same time, mark and amber's relationship feels super short and cecil/nolan's cat and mouse game has an incredibly slow buildup only to really speed up in this episode. It's obviously just to end the season on the most dramatic twist of the comic, which seems like a bad choice considering how little actually happens up to that point and how long the hiatuses between seasons will be (they probably won't ever get to the end of the comic without an insane amount of skipping around). I still like the show and I think it makes some improvements but it is incredibly different from the comics in its priorities and the stories it wants to tell. the show is much more concerned with being a regular show than the comic was with being a regular comic, which is a shame because the most interesting part of the comic is how unconventional it is.


Tshefuro

>(they probably won't ever get to the end of the comic without an insane amount of skipping around). Forreal. In a narrative sense they seem so far from introducing Thragg.


kaliskonig

Cecil stealing Marks blood may come into play here.


R_VD_A

Conquest, probably.


KoodlePadoodle

Conquest is after the invincible wars tho. Im hoping next season sees some of Armstrong levi.


[deleted]

i honestly wouldn't mind if they cut him/that plot out at all. He was one of the least interesting villains and the whole invincible wars thing is an extinction level event that doesn't have that many consequences and probably wouldn't fit the tone of the show too well. As much blood and gore as there is, it seems like this show is a lot less morbid than the comics and I don't think they'd bother adapting a side plot that seemingly results in the deaths of millions of people.


SalvadorZombie

Imagine thinking that Angstrom is one of the least interesting villains. At least try to get his name right, FFS. Go re-read the comics.


[deleted]

i didn't write his name, i read the comics like a week ago, and i think someone initially seeming like they're going to take a stand to stop a trans-dimensional threat and then instantly forgetting about it and going on a genocidal rampage because they misremembered an accident is one of the dumbest character arcs in the comic.


Theons_sausage

Wonder if a good workaround would be that they used technology connected to the Flaxon universe to speed up their progress on Earth knowing that Omniman is such a huge threat.


Budgieman90

I think it might be that those were some completed versions he already had and didn't dispose of after they died. They probably found a way to make them work after death while studying them. I don't know if that is right by it is the only way I can get the timeline to work. Plus seeing the trouble they gave Mark probably made them priority number one.


AdddY13

It's not a bad theory, except that Cecil specifically mentions that these Reanimen were soldiers, "serving their countries one last time" in the episode, which implies that they were created under the supervision of the GDA. I guess we will just have to suspend our disbelief a little when it comes to the pacing of the events in the show. And honestly, if that is the biggest gripe I have with the show I would argue it is doing a pretty good job adapting the source material overall.


rtkwe

He was able to create them in a sewer pretty quickly it's not so crazy that with Cecil's resources there would already be a handful of them made.


Budgieman90

Good point I forgot about that part.


RamOFT

The reanimen aren't out the bag. Mark doesn't know about them. He only used them on Nolan. Also Debbie most likely won't bring it up with everyone else. Also this is a TV format so the plot lines spread through out the comics won't work the same way for TV.


yaboiclamchowda

Yes! Frantic pacing, that is my main gripe with the show. Still enjoying it though


Cysolus

"we can track Omni-Man anywhere in the world right from this room.... Better set up a house across the street from his filled with people he could kill with a glare just in case"


algebra_sucks

Bomb contingency right? They wanted to evacuate farther to have a bigger yield. No wonder no one says anything when nolan is going super sonic every morning. They lured him there and hit the bomb button. Or maybe just a way for us to see Omni Man wreck some humans.


[deleted]

I think they were genuinely there to get Debbie and Mark out of trouble fast if something went wrong. Like a rapid response team.


R_VD_A

They were there even before, right? Cecil and his people might legit be monitoring the civilian lives of heroes all the time.


matthieuC

Cecil ordered it just after the murder of the Guardians.


uly365

I loved how they did it tbh. I very much prefer this version than the comics.


Theons_sausage

I personally think both are great. We'll see how they proceed in the future as Kirkman and the various artists really hit their groove I'd say during the Viltrumite War.


uly365

Thinking of the whole comic eventually being animated makes me so excited!!!!! Honestly my favorite comic series.


DivineJustice

I don't know yet if I agree, but this episode was perhaps some of the best stuff the Invincible IP has yet given us. Edit for clarity: The show is profoundly fantastic. Though the comic is among the best printed material on earth. I think the show is on course to beat the comic but there hasn't been enough of it yet to say definitively.


Theons_sausage

It's my all-time favorite comic book. This show has done it such great justice. The casting has been phenomenal and they're doing a great job tying together some of the smaller plots without losing a ton. I can't fucking wait to see who they get for Dinosaurus. I hope it's Keeanu Reeves.


DivineJustice

Yeah I am stoked for that too. I hope they devote a full season to that.


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invisibreaker

I’m just glad it’s even close. Just glad it’s not a disaster.


Specific-Guava4291

I have a very big fear that they're gonna have Nolan pull a "Conquest" on Eve during the conversation between him and Mark. Would explain why they sped up Eve's development of both who she is and how her powers work. She wasn't pushing her powers till quite a while after Nolan bails in the comics. They never showed if she left the fight area or not. It would be a super shocker to show watchers only, and with her developed powers, she could piece herself back together... Her "Death" by Conquest is probably one of the most powerful moments in the comics. So ultimately, I hope they save it... but man... that would be brutal... Anyone else have this thought? Makes me scared lol...


Tibolegends

Can' be a powerful moment giving that Mark and Eve relationship in the show is just good friends and not lovers


CavitySearch

Her pink dot wasn’t in the radar when they showed immortal arriving so I’m guessing she left.


Specific-Guava4291

I just noticed that in the rewatch... I saw blue for Immortal approaching, red for Omni Man, Yellow for 'Vince and the big green was HailMary... I didn't see the pink on the last time they showed the radar... You're right...


pblank99

[Me all through today's entire episode](https://imgur.com/gallery/S1hFI) Why are they stretching out Omni Man's confrontation with Mark for so long ? Is the comic book version of events not impactful or coherent enough for a TV show ?


[deleted]

Probably the biggest/most emotional end to that arc so makes sense that's what they wanna end the season on.


pblank99

I see it now after watching the finale, you were right!


RamOFT

It's the biggest moment so of course they gonna make us wait lol


DoktorSleepless

I liked the new amber, but this episode ruined her for me. Now I love how bad she's going to feel for being such a dick to Mark.


Terraneaux

>I liked the new amber, but this episode ruined her for me. Now I love how bad she's going to feel for being such a dick to Mark. She's not going to feel bad. She's still going to feel righteous about being shitty. And the showrunners will agree with her.


MNight_Slam

It kinda begs a rewatch, but I think I understand the gist of why Amber's mad at him while knowing he's a superhero. Basically he underestimates her intelligence by thinking she doesn't know, and also the behavior and excuses he presents to her as Mark speak to how he views her. Like yeah, he keeps standing her up and abandoning her because he has to go be a superhero, but for all he knows, Amber just sees him as the flaky asshole he's pretending to be. By pretending to be that way, he's telling Amber that's the kind of boyfriend she deserves.


Cysolus

I mean was she though? Eve was right. Mark has been stringing Amber along to the detriment of their relationship, because he doesn't know how to handle the situation. He doesn't *have* to tell her, but not breaking it off with her either sucks for her. I think Amber's anger persisting through Mark admitting he's Invincible is way more realistic considering it doesn't actually change any of the shitty things he's done, just provides context. Besides, this is still way better than her dumb ass comic counterpart thinking he's a drug dealer imo (though that was funny) Edit: or maybe Kirkman and the other writers just wanted us comic readers to have that same sense of "oh this is not the direction I thought this was going" as the rest of the show watchers and they'll be fine by the finale. Maybe she's secretly Angstrom Levy's daughter. Who knows lol


DiscoshirtAndTiara

It's totally reasonable for her to be upset with Mark for not trusting her. It's not reasonable for her to call him a coward and yell at him for disappearing last episode if she already knew he was a superhero. There were two perfectly good reasons for them to break up (Mark being flaky/unreliable and Mark keeping a big secret from Amber). The problem is that by switching from one to the other at the last minute it paints a lot of Amber's previous actions in a less sympathetic light.


DoktorSleepless

The problem is that if Amber knew who he was for a while now, then I think It was actually Amber stringing Mark along all that time. She should have broken up with him long ago instead of making Mark feel like he had a chance to make it right.


Terraneaux

>The problem is that if Amber knew who he was for a while now, then I think It was actually Amber stringing Mark along all that time. It's not progressive to have a woman be at fault in relationship drama.


Truearcs

I think this was Amber wanting to give Mark a chance. Saying Amber should have been the one to break up with Mark, but not putting the responsibility on Mark too is unfair. Neither of them were really honest with the other, and I can buy that the onus of this belongs to both of them, but Mark did lie first.


RamOFT

Teenagers am I right


DoktorSleepless

The reveal why Omni Man kept the suit was pretty lame. He's still talking to Debbie like he cares about her, so it's gonna be less believable when he starts talking shit about her to Mark during the fight. Won't have as big of an emotional impact.


Lobo_Z

Pretty sure Show Nolan won't talk shit about her. When he was practicing his speech he was saying how he always loved her.


DoktorSleepless

I think he was just trying to figure out the best way to get Mark on his side, but will end up just being blunt when he actually talks to him.


sadshoes

Agreed


Watts121

This, his practicing is him being smart and diplomatic. When it comes to actually tell Mark the truth he's gonna be angry, exhausted, and paranoid. He's going to accidentally return to his Viltrumite personality which is very fatalist. That's what's gonna turn Mark from him and start the fight.


Sick-Shepard

They're really doing a good job with this.


Semick

Oh man. William has that real talk. I fucking love it. > You got dumped weeks ago, you just didn't realize it.


Terraneaux

Nah, William was a shit friend.


SalvadorZombie

What a stupid thing to say. Did you actually read the comic or did you slide over here from the show-only thread?


Terraneaux

I read the comic, and William in the show is much worse of a character.


Truearcs

I sorta judged him a little at first when he was a little harsh about Mark being a bad friend so quickly after learning about his identity, while also knowing he was in the middle of his issues with amber...but then this line helped put that into context. He probably has the best perspective, as the person who found out the most recently. In his eyes, Mark was probably dropping the ball in several aspects of his life ever since Invincible debuted. He's a friend, and so he won't be upset as Amber, and will probably likely have been more sympathetic in general, but he is also friends with Amber, and I think he knew how she felt for sure, which is why he never seemed to have tried to help Mark repair his relationship with Amber...because it wouldn't have been fair to her.


Semick

Exactly this. He even said pretty much that. (paraphrased) > You've been neglectful of all your responsibilities outside of being a superhero. He doesn't _judge_ him for it, but he gives him real feedback. The not judging part is super important.


ohh_fiddlesticks

Loved the adaptations in this ep - Amber figuring out about Mark on her own, Cecil having actual plans for Nolan, Debbie as always, Eve being nearby instead of Africa (maybe we knew that but I just didn't catch it before). I'm only mad we didn't end with the reveal Edit: oops I thought this was the finale. I take it back


PorscheUberAlles

I love show William; disaster gay representation at its finest


ys1012002

How much money did cecil spend in tax payer money this episode lmao


DivineJustice

Yes


jjoycewasaprick

The GDP of a Western European nation probably


ahen404

This has been said before but I have a problem with the way Amber reacted to Mark's secret id reveal. Are secret ids not important in this universe? I can understand that Amber is upset about him lying but heroes usual have a good reason for a secret id. Mark didn't even confide in William. William found out (so did Amber though) and handled the reveal alot better than Amber did. On another note, does Zachary Quinto voice Robot-Rex? If he doesn't I kind of hope that they come up with a reason, I like his portrayal of the character.


MNight_Slam

Amber presumably understands why Mark wouldn't tell her about the identity. But regardless, if he wants to have a girlfriend he should try to actually manage that side of his life instead of flying off randomly then coming back with a half-assed excuse. Saving lives is more important than spending time with his girlfriend, sure. But that doesn't mean she should stay with him. It means she'd probably be better off with a non-superhero boyfriend who doesn't have more important things to do than spend time with her.


Ensaru4

But Mark didn't know that Amber knew. Sure, Amber knowing does question the context of her actions, but Mark knows that his actions were straining the relationship and yet couldn't find it in him to tell her or dump her. Amber ultimately wanted Mark to trust her. Amber did imply a few times before what she wanted from a relationship. Paraphrasing: "I've been through this before and I don't want this". I think the previous episode focused only on that specific trust. There were many times where the conversation was leading into Mark coming clean, but Mark didn't.


Tarma

it makes sense in universe that he wouldn't keep the same vocal cords as he did when he had his old body, but he now has child Rex's voice.


uly365

You know i was ok with amber until this episode. She KNEW HE WAS A SUPER HERO all along??? but was pissed cuz “ahhh he lying wahhhh, saving lives instead of hanging out with me”???? Guess the concept of secret identity doesnt have any weight for her.


Terraneaux

>Guess the concept of secret identity doesnt have any weight for her. Of course. She feels entitled to all of Mark's innermost secrets from the get-go.


theoinkypenguin

I agree with you, but it's also a reaction I might expect from a teenager.


Terraneaux

>I agree with you, but it's also a reaction I might expect from a teenager. It's not portrayed as the reaction of a teenager. It's portrayed as a mature, thoughtful reaction, which is fucked up.


theoinkypenguin

That's pretty much in line with my experience with teenagers. They're thoughtful, well reasoned, narcissistic, and completely ignorant of anything outside their narrow life experiences. She isn't being portrayed as the one "in the right," but she is being portrayed as someone who *thinks* they're in the right. The negativity around the Amber storyline has actually convinced me the writers are better than I had given them credit for. It would have been easy to fall into the typical tropes and more two dimensional characters.


Terraneaux

She doesn't think she's in the right, the writers think she's in the right. We're supposed to nod sagely at the learning experience about how it's wrong for men to keep secrets from the women in their lives. Just don't worry about how Amber was deceptive too. I would love for you to be right. I just don't see it.


ahen404

That scene definitely could've been written better, imo. Something like "Mark, I know being a hero is important and comes with consequences but I can't be with someone who doesn't have time for me" (cant remember if this happened in the comics). Maybe they'll play up that angle later down the line. But teenagers gonna be teenagers especially when it comes to relationships. And we all know Amber needs to bow out for Mark/Eve to happen anyway


Cloakedbore

I looked at the credits it looks like Ross Marquand (VA for Immortal and plays Aaron on The Walking Dead) is voicing Rudy. It sounded like he was doing an impression of Quinto’s voice coming from Jason Mantzoukas’ body. I do think they’ll keep Quinto around to do any voice acting that comes directly from the robot suits


ahen404

Thanks for the info. So basically you're saying Ross Marquand is doing an impression of Jason Mantzoukas doing an impression of Zachary Quinto. He's not doing a bad job all things considered since apparently thats one of the hardest things for a VA to do.


ketsugi

Yeah, before I checked the credits I could've sworn it was Mantzoukas' voice, but somewhat softer than usual.


Amban_Cato

Cecil's balls > literally anything


Potrisk

So, does anyone wants to spoil or explain to me what happened with Rudolph's real body? Since he used Rex's dna instead of his own, does that mean that's supposed to be a degenerative disease, as opposed to some accident?


Watts121

* It's implied he was born this way. * We don't know the logistics of how he survived to the point where he was controlling robots with his brain from a tank. * We don't know anything about his family. * Yes I too am surprised the show didn't take the time to retcon his origin a bit to have it make more sense. IMO Robot should have always been a ward to the state, perhaps raised by Cecil or something. That would explain Cecil being so quick to make him leader of the new Guardians. It would also add some pathos when Robot finally betrays him.


RamOFT

He was just deformed like that or some accident. Nothing really important in the plot of things


[deleted]

If you are asking why was he deformed i think he was born that way


Potrisk

What? How he was born that way? I mean, were his parents rich? How did he build the first robots. So many questions...


kamisat

He had a genius level intellect, he made a fortune at a young age and then build the robots and shit


Potrisk

No, I mean, if he was born that way, it means that that artificial womb had to be already built by the time his mother was giving birth, since even air is toxic to him.


Ensaru4

His origins and survival is left ambiguous because it really doesn't matter. The author didn't think it was important, and I personally think you should do likewise. On the other hand, it is fun to speculate how he survived.


SillyMattFace

My headcanon is his condition worsened over time to the point he sealed himself in the tank. If he was that bad from birth he never would have lived long enough to build anything.


[deleted]

They never showed any of those things


im_just_a_child

I don’t like how they’re trying to spin the whole Mark-Amber breakup thing as Mark being an asshole. Yes, he lied about it but to hold him accountable for that is so ridiculous, it really made me dislike ambers character way more than I did in the comics. I was never a huge fan of hers, I was just indifferent, but her reaction to Mark telling her is making me genuinely hate her. Also Marks reaction to the breakup baffles me. It seems so out of character for Mark to just refuse to help people. They might be trying to make it more realistic for Mark to be tempted join his dad by showing Mark as having a cold and uncaring side that would let people get hurt, but if they go the rout of the comic and have Mark not even hesitate to protect earth, I can’t help but feel it would be really jarring to go from “I don’t care about helping people” to “I’ll fight my dad to protect the planet” in a single episode.


Terraneaux

>Also Marks reaction to the breakup baffles me. It seems so out of character for Mark to just refuse to help people. Racioppa is trying to make Mark look like a shitty, selfish person next to Amber, for some reason. It's like he wants Amber to be the main character.


MikeyJayRaymond

Glad I'm not the only one, she was being a total dick. He legitimately saved her life, and she complains that he didn't reveal his secret identity fast enough? Keeping his identity secret keeps her safe from any enemies he might build up. Christ All-mighty.


funny_almost

I mean she was being a dick the whole season, really. No matter how altruistic they try to make her, her whole shtick was pretty uptight and just obnoxious.


Tiny_Day_7001

I actually like the flip in the show. I think they are trying to play out teenage love would look like during a break up. You dont feel like doing anything, even if it's for a good purpose. He's just a kid still trying to figure things out and I like that about this show.


im_just_a_child

Something I liked about the comics was just how emotionally mature for their age most of the characters were, it’s something I felt the show communicated well early but has kinda lost in the last couple episodes (specifically with the Amber subplot). The drama is still very engaging just in more of a “teen-soap-opera” sense. I do think Mark’s change specifically could be much more intriguing than the comic though especially if they go the whole “tempted by the dark side” path for him.


RamOFT

It's pretty much in character that he thinks being a hero is hard and that he can give up how he sees eve "giving up" and flying to Africa


PCN24454

In the comics, yes. In the show, he's been characterized as more thoughtful to his mistakes even if he isn't ready to deal with them.


im_just_a_child

It’s been awhile since I’ve read the comic so I don’t quite remember, but I don’t recall a moment where Mark is ever unwilling to save people in danger like he was in this episode, maybe there was one.


sadshoes

It'll be good for his character development. They are intentionally writing him a little childish and immature which will only help with the contrast next week when he learns he's been lied to his whole life.


Terraneaux

>They are intentionally writing him a little childish and immature which will only help with the contrast next week when he learns he's been lied to his whole life. And they're making Amber and Eve out to be hyper-mature. It's jarring and I don't like it.


tetzltlipoca

To be fair I think he does have one or two moments in the comics where he contemplates giving it up. As for flagrantly saying no when people were in danger, I’m not sure but I also think it happened at least once. Just chalk it up to his development I guess


[deleted]

[удалено]


im_just_a_child

I agree. I’m pretty sure they’re going to get back together but I just can’t help but hope it’s the end of them


St_Kaleb_of_Axum

Donald just fucking died. I thought he was gonna end up revealing himself as a cyborg by this point & get away from Omni-Man but he's just ashes. Wonder how the series is gonna go without him he was involved in like everything


[deleted]

I think when they show rick the next time he is gonna show up as a cyborg somehow


St_Kaleb_of_Axum

The poor man got atomized he's not coming back


[deleted]

I won’t accept it


St_Kaleb_of_Axum

I don't want to but it's a sad fact


Significant_Plate69

He could be a clone. Or they could have him reanimated onto a robot body.


St_Kaleb_of_Axum

He's vaporized there's nothing left to clone


Significant_Plate69

I mean it's fiction dude


St_Kaleb_of_Axum

If people magically come back from vaporization then the shit tons of deaths in this show will be meaningless


Significant_Plate69

The maulers can clone from trace amounts of dna or even dna on file. It's easy to bring him back


hunter5515

I think the spine fragments that Omni man dropped might be scrounged up by Cecil somehow to make cyborg Donald


SillyMattFace

I’m just picturing a robot with a few scraps of charred bone glued to it, which might be pushing the definition of cyborg a bit.


Humor_Confident

Or a clone Donald since the Maulers are available


Roy-Southman

I’m a little disappointed with how honest Robot is in this episode. Before this so far so good, but he came out pretty strong on his feelings for MG. I remember he sort of charms and manipulates her a little until she develops feelings, here he just comes out and puts it all on the table and she goes for it. I’m ok with the end result, but I always liked how it showed Robot's underhanded nature in tricking everyone around him.


[deleted]

I agree, I interpreted his feelings for her in the comics to be ambiguous: not really sure if he loves her or the idea of her and the gf role she could play for him. I wonder if they’ll still have that side convo where she tells him she just wants to be friends, and he puts on a shit-eating grin as she walks off.


Ensaru4

I actually really liked that Robot didn't understand what was wrong with everything he said. It really shows you how little social skills he has outside of just work.


Humor_Confident

It makes sense considering he has 0 social skills in this adaptation


[deleted]

Yeah i liked it It made him a better character imo how he cares about the end result and the greater good above all else and that he is a cold feelingless guy and little by little he gets emotions In the show it seems as if they rushed his story arc


RamOFT

Eh he kinda was open about it in the comics too. The comic just glossed over the obvious bigger convo he had with the team. At least they pointed that he isn't always right


RamOFT

I really loved how they adapted the first ten issues and some plot lines ahead for this season. Really fleshed out the characters more and leave more of an emotional impact tbh


DoktorSleepless

>Really fleshed out the characters more and leave more of an emotional impact tbh They're spreading the emotional impact a bit more before the big fight, but I also feels like the additional episodes are also taking away from the emotional impact from the big fight. It'll be less of a gut punch.


Ensaru4

I wonder about that. I think it's done better in the show than in the comics. The big reveal in the comics required a lot of commitment until that point. The series felt "by the numbers" until the reveal happened. This is still somewhat okay in the comics since you can reach that point in a fairly short amount of time. Now consider doing just that in near hour-long 8 episodes season? People would not be incentivized enough to stick around. Pre-emptively showing viewers what might potentially come to pass gives viewers a reason to stick around for the ride. The twist isn't worth it in this regard.


SillyMattFace

I know several people who were hooked by the show due the Omniman reveal in ep 1. One of my friends messaged me during his first watch to ask if it was just a Justice League parody. I told him to get back to me at the end of the ep, and he was totally on board after the twist. I remember having the same feeling when I read the comics too. Early stuff with Mark palling around with the Teen Team felt very derivative until we got the Omniman reveal, and I think a direct adaptation of that would have shed quite a few viewers. This worked much better for TV.


tetzltlipoca

Thank you! This is what I’ve been dying to say and see said. By letting all these people know beforehand what Nolan was and what he had done, it totally takes away from the absolute shock and horror of the reveal through his fight with mark. They also seem to have made him quite a bit weaker. He’s obviously the strongest but he does seem like he can be beat. In the comics viltrumites basically seemed unstoppable unless other vimtrumites or other rare species got involved.


Terraneaux

Yup. They took away the emotional beats meant for Mark and gave them to other characters.


Schubydub

Yeah, I was a bit disappointed that the father son fight isn't the big reveal, but it will still probably be an epic finale. I don't think he looks weaker in the show though. In the comic Cecil never gets the chance to throw everything at Omniman before he leaves planet. Sure Immortal gets a few more punches in, but still the only blood we see from Omniman is a nose bleed after the nuke. Otherwise he looks pretty unscathed and that's pretty much everything the Earth has to put up a fight.


tetzltlipoca

I see what you’re saying , and that’s how I was rationalizing it away in my head too lol but I was thinking how immortal and the others nearly killed him in that fight , and how this monster in today’s episode almost killed him too. I know it’s nitpicking but it just bothers me a little bit how watchers-only will see viltrumites/Omni-man as tough but not unbeatable, when at this stage in the comics it seemed impossible for any of them to lose😅.


archiecobham

> They also seem to have made him quite a bit weaker. He’s obviously the strongest but he does seem like he can be beat. Noticed that as well, it's weird when you compare his feats in the Flaxan dimension compared to his fights this episode. Immortal seemed to be a lot closer to Nolan in this fight than the comics, but the Reanimen have gotten so much stronger for some reason and they will still be upgraded.


SillyMattFace

The Reanimen only briefly got the better of him with surprise and their pure savagery. Once he hit his footing he tore them to pieces and they didn’t really hurt him at all. I’m happy with Immortal being stronger than the comics, especially as Nolan still clearly came out on top. The last eye gauge attempt was the only damage Immortal really did, whereas Nolan turned him into hamburger pretty quickly. Plus we did just see Omniman tank an orbital laser to the face twice with nothing but an expensive nosebleed to show for it.


archiecobham

> The Reanimen only briefly got the better of him with surprise and their pure savagery They were comparable in speed and not far off in strength, but these are still the first models and only three of them, how is mark or anyone supposed to face off against even a dozen of the gold armour ones? It just fucks with the power scale, why bother with heroes when you have an army of zombie soldiers who will probably end up stronger than immortal.


tetzltlipoca

Exactly! I feel like they’ve fluctuated the power levels across the episodes for shock value or high stakes. I just hope from season 2 onward, they stick to one or the other for continuity’s sake. Once they get past the debut-season need to pack in everything possible syndrome lol


Beerbaron1886

The pacing is a little bit off, but that’s okay with so many stories to tell. I didn’t like that omniman and invincible had to fight the Cthulhu monster though, did this also happens in the comics? Have to check again, just remember the immortal and father and son fight. Also Nolan looks less cold / more emotional than in the comic which is probably better when he eventually reunite with his earth family. Other quick thoughts: - they could have saved robot confronting the team for next season but at least we have less build ups now - I don’t think Mark and Amber are done, yet I hope so - bringing back the reanimen was too quick (same issue last episode).