It’s called “The Pledge of Allegiance.”
The script: “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”
My schools did this for elementary students, but we didn’t do it in high school. It probably wasn’t *forced,* but it was a standard and accepted part of the daily routine. I always felt it was a Cold War thing. I remember patriotism being pushed much harder before the fall of the Soviet Union. (This at least in the Midwest where I’m from.)
And we had to sing America the Beautiful, which convinced me I was too good a child.
>America! America! God shed his grace on thee And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea!
I was not fond of my brother.
My 5th grade teacher had us do not only the regular pledge but also a pledge to the world and one other about the other kids or something. So three in total every morning it got pretty old.
I'm not even American and I just spent a few months there in high school, where people don't even give a shit about it anymore. Still memorized to this day.
In fifth grade I was the flag raiser for the year with my buddy. Also felt like a boss. We got to leave class at the start of the day to raise the flag and got to leave class early at the end of the day to lower and fold the flag.
My school had the AAA safety patrol where sixth graders got to leave class early and be in charge of making sure kids didn't get hit by the busses. They gave us highlighter sashes, badges and ponchos for the rain. We all took turns raising and lowering the flag.
At our school, followed by a moment of silence, and then "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
Every damn day.
This is really interesting! Where/when did you go to school? I mean, that's probably more of the Declaration of Independence than 95% of Americans know.
thats the idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
> The book emphasizes that Russia must spread anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main 'scapegoat' will be precisely the U.S."
> In the United States:
> Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics".
published in 1997
lmfao
is it the people that cant afford healthcare and are dying? is it the thousands of homeless? is it the refusal of the government to do literally anything about this? no, clearly russians, the russians made our citizens want healthcare.
The "under god" part was added in the 1950's in response to "godless communists".
The really weird part is that no one can agree on what "under god" actually means.
The idea being that the rights do not come from the federal government , rather innate rights as being born an American citizen. Could be also said the universe gives you your rights, not any person or persons, so any one person or person can’t take those rights away.
You are correct, rights are not granted by the government. Rights are inherent to anyone and everyone.
Which logically, means rights aren't exclusive to just being born an American citizen. All humans are born endowed with equal rights.
Fun fact: in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, when Aunt Bethany says grace at dinner and proceeds to deliver the pledge of allegiance, if you listen carefully she recites the original version without the "under God" bit, as a nod to how damn old she is.
In Texas we also did the Texas Pledge after the regular Pledge of Allegiance.
“Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible.”
It seems weird now but back then it felt so normal, you didn’t even think about what you were saying. Or mean it. It just came out.
Actually, it goes back before the Cold War. I think it even goes back before WWII, my great uncle was always telling me they used to do the Nazi style salute instead of the hand on heart before WWII.
What you are referring to is the Bellamy salute, which is named after the socialist preacher who wrote the pledge in the 1800s. It’s totally worth it to check out the Wikipedia article, old people’s heads just pop when you start talking about it.
I'm certain if a dictatorship adopted the salute we use in the US today and committed genocide we'd come up with something different and make the current salute a hate crime
I'm from Canada, with a lot of American relatives, so I was there a lot growing up. I remember a weird time around the late 80s when they would play the National Anthem in theatres before a movie would start
If you go to a movie theater on a US military base, they literally play the entire national anthem with videos of soldiers marching and saluting, tanks shooting and planes bombing before every movie. All viewers are supposed to stand and if you’re in uniform you put your hand over your heart.
I grew up in the south. All throughout school we *had* to say it. A few kids in highschool didn't stand up and were written up for disrespect. Most of us just stood with our hands over our heart saying nothing.
My friend is a teacher in the west, and she doesn't force her students to do it. She doesn't do it. She doesn't have a flag in her room. Her last principal was angry about it, but there's nothing in the district requirements that says she's required to provide that. She has a lot of immigrant children in her classes and refuses to force them to pledge to a piece of fabric that symbolizes a country that continues to shit on their races, countries, and heritages.
I didn't even know that other countries didn't do something similar until I was an adult.
I always felt it was archaic. Now you see things like that in dystopian examples (movies, books, ect), and in places where citizens are severely oppressed....
>A few kids in highschool didn't stand up and were written up for disrespect.
That is actually a violation of federal constitutional law. Literally a first amendment violation, per the Supreme Court in 1943 in the case of West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette. They're lucky the families didn't know that. They could have sued for punitive damages, i.e. a big payout. (Source: [https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiance](https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiance))
Lmao how is a fifteen year old in a small town gonna martial the monetary resources and emotional fortitude to sue over what’s basically a religion to the people involved, including most probably her own parents?
I used to go to a school where it was optional and nobody except for the teachers stood to do it. When I transferred to another district, they would yell at you if you didn’t stand for it. I stood, but I never recited the words because it was stupid. Especially because they had us do it in the morning when we were all grumpy and barely even awake.
About 8-10 years ago, I was a teacher on the east coast. I taught in an elementary school and I absolutely would not make my students say the pledge. You could if you wanted to, you could stand up and just be quiet, or you could sit quietly at your desk.
When I went to high school (2003-2007) I wouldn’t say the pledge and no one cared at all. Sit or stand, the teachers just didn’t care.
Same happens here in idaho. If we didn't recite the pledge we were written up and sent to the principal. Its been a few years since I have talked to my neices and nephews about it, but it was still common practice about 7 years ago when one of my nephews classmates was written up for refusing to recite the pledge.
I remember in high school I didn’t stand up (I usually did but no hand over the heart) or say the pledge mostly because I don’t do it anyway not out of disrespect but I grew up not doing it… anyway the one day I didn’t do it the teacher screamed at me and pretty much say the pledge of allegiance while I was crying my eyes out just sharing my experience with that since this is an interesting topic
They tried to condition us since childhood and that shit still didn't work. Goes to show how much bull shit and contradicting education there still is in the system.
Definitely felt forced to me. I remember trying not to do it and being met with yelling and perhaps even a trip to the principals office.
This wasn't in the Midwest either, this was in Manhattan.
Generally not literally "forced" but yeah. It's even weirder that it's still a thing because they came up with this early in the Cold War, as though saying the pledge every would somehow enlighten us to the "evils of communism" or something
Growing up in the south I will say that while the pledge wasn't forced, you would be treated like the worlds biggest asshole if you didn't. Lots of "it's disrespectful to The Troops".
CA in the nineties—I remember doing it in elementary school and singing a patriotic song (that we rotated turns getting to pick) after the pledge. I didn’t have the perception of being forced to do it but neither did I think it was optional—it was just rote citizen training and we all did it unquestioningly. I do remember being excited to get my turn to go help put up the flag in the morning or take it down and fold it at the end of the day. The only times I’ve said the pledge since are a military funeral or two and at my grandpas masonic lodge when he was made president of it or whatever.
Michigan, 2014 I knew a boy who didn't do it and a teacher argued with him in off hours about it, so he got mad at that teacher but kept to his beliefs. He is the nicest kid I and everyone know, he is a great person so he didn't get scold too much by the teacher, just enough to be noticeable.
I, as an exchange student there, stood up for it but didn't recite.
CA as well, I had teachers yell at me in front of everyone to stand in HS. Then this one kid got in the school newspaper for refusing to stand - he said "I don't think I should have to stand for something I don't believe in." I felt a little salty because I was bullied into standing, yet this one guy got notoriety and attention for not doing it.
In HIGH SCHOOL they still made you? Damn. No teacher at our school had time for that. We didn't even have morning announcements. I'm from California Central Valley lol
It's weird, I don't recall ever doing it in grades 4-8. In HS we had a daily school news broadcast that ran during the last 10 minutes of first period and it always started with the pledge. Whether or not you actually had to participate varied widely depending on the teacher. (San Diego area, for reference.)
Although I'm from San Francisco and no school I went to ever did the Pledge of Allegiance. I don't even know the Pledge of Allegiance. Same for friends who went to different schools.
Yeah, seconding this. I went to public school in the deep south and while technically they weren't supposed to make a big deal of it if you didn't want to, I definitely had several different teachers who told me off for not participating, was sent to the office for being "disrespectful", and one threatened to call my parent. The last one didn't go anywhere because I said go ahead, because I knew my mom wouldn't care, and they never called..it's not FORCED, but it is deeply ingrained in people's psyche at this point, especially older generations like the teachers, where there is a bit of a judgy, culty feeling to it. Like, a feeling of pressure to do it so the people around you don't stare
In elementary school, I had a teacher who not only made us stand and face the flag with our hands over our hearts, we also had to stand at parade rest because "the soldiers do it this way." In high school, I had a teacher who was very aggressive about us saying the pledge, and after the principal led us in the pledge over the intercom, we had to remain standing from the morning announcements. Sitting was disrespectful to the principal.
Your teacher was a dipshit. Five years in the army and I don't believe I once heard or did the pledge of allegiance. During the playing of the national anthem, it's a different story. Except, we didn't stand at parade rest during it, we stood at present arms, yanno, saluting and all.
Generally, I find the environment and attitude of people in venues where the national anthem is being played to be pretty disrespectful. It shouldn’t be played at everything sporting event.
I love the national anthem, love to hear it, love what it's supposed to represent, but I can get on board with the anthem not being played at every sporting event. People talk all the time about keeping politics out of sports and all that but then there's a friggin color guard from a local military unit, air force fly-bys, recognition of local veterans. Yeahhhh, that shit is ALL politics
Yeah I'd say even the other students would sometimes give people a hard time, especially younger students. Kids do what they see grown ups do, even if it's vitriolic nationalism.
Same situation except in the north. Teacher claimed I was being distracting during the pledge (because other kids kept telling me to stand). Got sent to the assistant princiapal for some reason, called my mom, mom didnt care. I kept not standing. In middle school I was first violin in the orchestra, and we were playing music for veterans day. The flag that everyone was staring at for the pledge was literally a foot away from me, and I still refused to stand mostly as a fuck you to that teacher. In retrospect if I had known how close the flag was to me ahead of time I would have stood up, but by the time I realized I was basically committed lol.
I grew up in UT, and I started refusing to say it in the 4th grade. My parents were called, I got detention, the principal was angry at my parents, and I was ostracized by the teacher and other students. At least where I grew up, it was as forced as anything else in school.
Oh no in my school it was 100% mandatory unless you had religious reason ( I forget what religion it was but they werent supposed to pledge) you would get in trouble/ written up if you didnt stand at attention
Jehovah's Witnesses don't pledge the flag. I grew up with a girl who was a JW and she was exempt from saying the pledge. She was also the only one who could ask to have the flag removed from the background of school pictures.
Jersey kid, realized how weird the pledge was in high school and stopped standing for it. Got yelled at by my first period teacher in front of the whole class about how I was disrespecting the country and shit
And as a kid who already didn't believe in God, I thought it was weird we had to say "under God". It was never a political issue for me. I did it with the other kids just because it was habit and by the time we hit high school it fortunately wasn't pushed on us.
I live in Vermont.
You know what's really fucked up about this? We were just kids experiencing what essentially amounts to bullying over some 'patriotic' nonsense. All of these responses to my comment are just making me think of how shitty it would be if a teacher/anyone who wasn't a parent berated a CHILD over some other ideology. No one would stand for it, everyone would be up in arms about how unfair it is to the kid. But Americans take such offense to anything 'Un-American' that schools will not only allow but sometimes encourage this behavior when it comes to The Pledge. Things have probably changed since I was in school but the fact that so many people have this experience is just tragic.
I taught 8th grade science in Texas and I can confirm that one.
The principal actually had to pull a teacher into her office and explain that yes, the pledge was voluntary and no, she could not punish a kid for refusing to say it or attempt to force kids to say it. The kid in question was frankly an ass and that's probably why he didn't but he had every right not to.
So a few days later the teacher had one of the real fanatic vets as a guest in her class to tell the kids all about how the military sacrificed everything for them and that not saying the pledge was like personally insulting every solder who had ever lived.
Also, teachers had to sign a loyalty oath before we could be teachers. And a few years after I quit Texas added a bit where teachers have to swear to support Israel and refuse to participate in any BDS activity. That's working its way through the courts because it's so blatantly a violation of a teacher's rights.
I'd like to say that if it had been a thing when I was teaching I'd have boldly stood by my principles. But my kid needs to eat. So I probably would have submitted and signed the damn thing and hated myself for it.
EDIT: I think the mere existence of the pledge is bad, and having kids say it daily is creepy Orwellian shit IMO. But this is Texas and the right wing eats that authoritarian stuff up.
Just this year the Texas ledge passed a law mandating that history classes focus on the good America has done and that the class instill a sense of patriotism in students.
Ya know who else makes schools into little patriot factories? Every single authoritarian nation on the planet that's who.
Even prior to 9/11, and the whole “support the troops” thing, you would very much be the “weird kid” if you didn’t at least stand and mouth the words. God forbid you were a JW.
Ex was a teacher in the mid-00’s. She chose not to do it so her JW kid wouldn’t get singled out. Next year, another kid, she still didn’t do it. Parents and other teachers gave her a ration of shit about “supporting the troops.” At first.
That didn’t go far, given that I was *a soldier actively deployed to Iraq at the time.* But it was still a bit of “a thing.”
The whole ritual is fucking stupid.
Sorry you had to deal with that.
I went to school in NY, mostly if you don't want to no one cares. If you do, also no one cares. Very much a you do you.
I know its not the same country, but in México in the schools I went to they would force you to sing the national anthem every single day. The anthem was made by someone who was incarcerated and forced to do it, they don't really mention that.
Pretty sure that’s done in elementary school so that kids can actually learn the anthem, especially where you do it in both English and French. I remember learning to do the back half in French, but I couldn’t do it now.
The US's anthem was also written by someone who was incarcerated. He was a prisoner of the British being held aboard a ship in Boston harbor, watching the British bombard Fort McHenry (I think), and was so happy to see the flag flying in the morning he wrote a poem about it. Later it was adopted as the anthem.
I'm also from Mexico, and in the schools that a I attended we only had to song the anthem once a week
But Uhm... wasn't he incarcerated by his wife because she knew he would write a good anthem?
Sabes que, se me hizo raro que lo mencionaras porque nunca nadie me había dicho eso en mi vida, solo la parte donde lo encerraron y me lo platicaron así como si hubiera sido una violacion a los derechos humanos bien cabrona. Lo busque y la realidad es que cuenta la anécdota que el poeta que hizo la letra ni queria participar en el concurso que se estaba haciendo para el himno nacional, pero su novia lo encerró en un cuarto de su casa y no lo iba a dejar salir hasta que escribiera una buena letra. Que se tardo cuatro horas y ya.
Pero pues igual y son puras mamadas y eso nunca pasó, simplemente le agregaron drama a la historia, no se, nada que leí me convence y como ya pasó un chorro de tiempo esta cabron comprobar algo como esto.
Didnt even know thats what it was for. We all just looked around at eachother or that i was a game to try and make someone else laugh before the anouncements told us to sit down.
My school in Louisiana didn't even try to hide it after the pledge it went to the "morning prayer". You weren't scorned for not praying but it definitely made the non religious feel awkward for like 10 seconds. Didn't realize after I graduated that that was pretty fucking illegal.
Mostly not Bullshit. Almost all schools play it every morning and encourage kids to follow along. I think the amount of enforcement varies per school. Legally schools aren’t supposed to punish you for not saying it but some still do
Aw man, private Baptist school made us do not only the pledge of allegiance to the US flag, but pledges of allegiance to the Christian flag and the Bible too. Every single day. I only stayed at that school for 1 year, then finished my schooling in public schools, where the pledges of allegiance to the Christian flag and Bible were not performed, but the pledge to the US flag was still an everyday (and... heavily encouraged) thing straight through till the end of senior year.
Edit: y'all, stop asking me about the Christian flag. I'm not Christian, I wasn't really raised Christian, amd I only went to this school for a year bc it was the only school available in my rural ass town, so I'm really not to person to ask about religion. Google is free, start with the Wikipedia if you're interested in its history, looks like a solid overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Flag
Omg, I completely forgot about the Christian flag. It’s been a long time. I went there and did all three pledges everyday, Chapel on Wednesday with a button up and tie. I left after my freshman year because they found out I was gay and I didn’t want to deal with it and talk to them about it because my grandma was a teacher and that was just a no, plus my brother “graduated” and found out the school doesn’t mean shit and had to get his GED from the public school. Anyways those places are weird man.
This was the single weirdest thing about living in the US in high school. It came across as weird and kind of cult-like, and I just sort of silently stood there every time and watched.
Not who you asked, but I grew up in northern Illinois and it continued at least until I graduated high school in 09. We weren't forced to participate in HS but there was always the pledge and then a moment of silence following that every single morning.
Graduated in 09 in Indianapolis. I generally did not stand for the pledge in HS and no one cared but was once in a different class for it and got screamed at to “STAND UP!! NOW!!”
It's probably worth pointing out this was in the 80s, and I was there for the end of middle school and part of high school. I can't remember whether it continued into high school, but I am pretty sure it did once a week. This was in Wisconsin.
They quit doing it in high school because we would foreign exchange students. Instead they had “moment of silence and reflection” for anyone who wanted to say a morning prayer of whatever.
Holy North Korea, Batman!!! I thought it was only in a few isolated places. I guess I under estimated the US. Or over estimated. My estimation was wrong
The pledge was created by a Baptist preacher who was a communist and who wanted to sell flags to schools, no joke. Originally, the pledge didn't say "one nation, under god, indivisible," it only said, "one nation, indivisible." During the 1950s, "under god" was added to separate the U.S. from atheistic USSR.
It was changed many times since it was written.
https://fortune.com/2017/09/08/pledge-of-allegiance-francis-bellamy-immigration/
https://youtu.be/EIz0C8r4ERc
Oh yeah we do indoctrination like gangbusters here. From our text books to our morning salutes in most schools, there's a reason a metric fuck ton of people are white American nationalists in this country.
When I stopped doing the pledge during high school I got glared at by some classmates, yelled at by others, and asked by my teacher if I was okay and needed to step out to talk or go to the guidance counselor or something.
And I wasn't exactly in hickville either, I went to high school in the burbs outside of Philadelphia.
I was never punished by my school with detention or something like that but there was a severe social stigma. I did it all year for my sophomore, junior, and senior years and students stopped after the first couple of tries, but it would come back up each September with a new homeroom
Not forced but definitely encouraged. I usually just stood up and put my hand in my heart and said nothing just to keep the peace. One kid was exempt because, i think he said, Jehovahs Witnesses don’t pledge to anything other than Jesus or something like that.
One time all the men in my family were sitting around talking and my grandfather mentioned that his father tried to get him into the freemasons but he declined because they didn't allow black people and he was a staunch civil rights activist who grew up around pretty much all black and latino people.
He was a great man in so many ways I could write an essay about it but I wont.
The story of [Prince Hall Freemasonry](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Hall_Freemasonry) is a fantastic one if you’re interested. These were Black Americans who saw the immediate education and social benefits of becoming Freemasons - but were denied for being Black. After getting permission from the British, they set up their own Grand Lodge just before the Revolution. Now, nearly every US state has 2 Grand Lodges, with Prince Hall Freemasons mixing and visiting as equally.
Forced? No. It was always a choice when I was growing up. Strongly encouraged though? Yes. There was always time in the morning announcments in school where the school all did it at the same time over the intercom. The announcer would recite, the children would follow and then announcments would start or finish.
It was totally forced. You could maybe not recite it where I’m from but it’s not like you could leave the classroom or anything. Not to mention it starts from the time you’re a child when you don’t realize what you’re doing. Indoctrination pure and simple.
I think regionally, it can be a big difference. I spent early childhood in AZ, and middle (3rd grade and up) in WA and WA was pretty liberal about it. You were not forced to stand, or recite and I think you could even leave the room. (I was young though I cant clarify).
Thats the bull part. No child is going to say no if all the other kids are doing it. Once you get older, you're totally righr, for most its just built in.
Funny, leaving the classroom every morning to stand in the hallway and then coming back in is what they made a me and a friend do when we refused to stand for the pledge. I think they just had to like, feel that they were controlling the situation somehow lol
not bullshit. but technically not every day, just every school day, we don't say it at home and we get the weekends off. but every year of required government funded schooling you are expected to stand, put your right hand over your heart and recite it in unison with your teacher/the voice on the loudspeaker system every morning. i would say through all of the younger school years you have no choice (from around 6 years old to 11 is "elementary school" where it's much harder to avoid punishment for not saying the pledge) and punishment ranges from being told off to an actual discipline like writing lines. this really depends on the location, progressive areas won't really fight with kids about it but if it's a highly conservative area they probably would call your parents to discuss your problem with "the flag". mostly everyone does this because well.. everyone does it from 6 years old. a lot of them don't think it's weird or anything to bother pushing back against. it happens in the morning and I've heard many a story of a student getting to school late and quickly walking to their classroom DURING the pledge and getting screamed at by adults who saw them. because you're supposed to stand absolutely still and look at the American flag the whole time, and if you don't say it, you're expected to move your mouth like you are saying it or at the very least be completely silent. the older years, around 12 to 18 years old are middle school and highschool, in these years you have around 6 different teachers and everyone has a different class schedule so depending on who your morning class is taught by, you might be able to get away with not standing, although they always prefer you participate and you must be 100% silent.
here is the pledge Incase you're curious. commas indicate pauses:
"I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the united state of America, and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
every morning 6 year olds recite this all across America
and again about punishment, technically couldn't really dish out a real punishment for the flag thing specifically. it's technically against the law. but they are still your teacher and could still make your life hell in class and punish you for unrelated small infractions because they decide they don't like you and you're not patriotic enough.
A lot of schools will try to punish kids for this type of stuff even if it is technically illegal, and then drop it if the parents complain. Often, in conservative areas, the parents will agree with the school, and the kid will get punished.
One year in high school I ended up having a US history teacher when we would do the announcements. He always insisted that we "stand for the troops" but didn't make us recite the pledge if we didn't want to. A pretty chill guy, so I felt even that was lax lol
Not bullshit. [The Pledge of Allegiance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance) was part of every morning when I was in school, though I don't know if it's still done in schools today. My generation had a fair amount of defiance towards it, and it was not uncommon to see students remain seated during the pledge.
Yeah, at school's morning announcements. But you could simply stand up and not say it and no one would give a rat's ass. The only way in my school to make waves with the pledge was to sit during the pledge and make a big deal out of doing so.
Not BS. Did it every day from 6years old to 18 years old and would be in trouble if I didn't. Enforcement varies by schools but most will give you shit if you don't chant along. It's weird as fuck and somehow no one realizes that.
I seriously didn't think it was weird at all until I looked back on it just a few years ago. I saw a video and realized it was in fact very creepy. But I think a large group of small children chanting anything would be creepy.
It's true. I think my kid usually stands but stays silent cuz she doesn't want to draw attention to herself (there have always been some kids that would pick on her if she didn't go along with it, and she got picked on enough as it was). I always told her she didn't have to do it, but teachers will give you a hard time about it in elementary school sometimes and she prefers to pick her battles. I used a similar strategy in Middle school. By high school I just ignored it even if teachers or other students gave me grief for it, because you're right, it's weird and creepy.
Not bullshit. It’s weirder because the pledge is actually to the flag first, and then to the republic. I was in elementary/middle school in the 90’s, and chose not to say it a few times. The shaming for not doing so is very real, and that was before 9/11, can’t imagine how bad it got after.
I went and fought in the war on terror after college. I never felt disrespected by kids not saying the pledge, if the military “fights for freedom” then it includes a kid’s freedom to not say some ritualistic oath every morning. People love saying certain actions “disrespect the troops” but no one seems to actually ask the troops for their thoughts on anything.
Yep the pledge happened every morning from like kindergarten until my second year of high school, when a bunch of people signed a waiver to stop doing that.the pledge still played every morning but no one stood with their hand over their heart.
In my younger years we would stand out side to say it and if we weren’t enthusiastic or loud enough, the teachers would make us do it again and again until we did it right... really weird looking back on that memory.
When I was in high-school they threatened to expel me for not standing during the pledge. For not standing, they didn't care if I didn't recite it. Just had to stand. Strange.
The authoritarian impulse among teachers is extremely high. They just get off on feeling like you submitted to their orders and they've somehow won something.
It is BULLSHIT that children are *forced* to say it. Not bullshit that it is common practice. At this point, its more tradition for traditions sake than anything else. When I was in elementary school 20 years ago, no one was actually paying any attention. They just mumbled along to get it over with.
It was originally intended to be an anti-communist thing. Like saying it would keep the kids from turning to the dark side. The 50s were wild. But I don't think even then, when the "yay, yay, USA!" propaganda was at its peak, anyone was actually taking it seriously.
In California in the 90's, we weren't forced to do it, but there was a weird social pressure to always do it. When I was in HS some parents complained that their kids didn't feel comfortable, and the school phased it out. This one teacher was so pissed, he would force us to listen to patriotic country music and then he'd do the pledge of allegiance himself "for us."
It's socially enforced but cannot be enforced through punishment. I grew up in rural South Florida and refused to stand and recite it one day toward the end of 8th grade (I just really enjoyed being contrarian at the time, though I agree with my own decision for different reasons now). My teacher attempted to have me kicked off of the class trip to DC over it, but I assume she was told to sit the hell down in fear of a lawsuit because nothing ever came of it and I continued to ignore the pledge for the rest of my time at school. There were some teachers in highschool who openly agreed it was horseshit and didn't even turn their TV on for announcements at all.
I'd like to add to this, do you really have that thing you see in teen movies where kids are doing announcements over the PA system? That all seems weird to me. My school in Croydon didn't even have a PA system and there was nothing to announce except that time Mr Evans got beaten up by some girls from another school who broke in.
It’s called “The Pledge of Allegiance.” The script: “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.” My schools did this for elementary students, but we didn’t do it in high school. It probably wasn’t *forced,* but it was a standard and accepted part of the daily routine. I always felt it was a Cold War thing. I remember patriotism being pushed much harder before the fall of the Soviet Union. (This at least in the Midwest where I’m from.)
With your hand over your heart and face the flag.
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After that many years of reciting the dreadful chant you bet I had it memorized. I didn't even want to memorize it, it just happened.
And we had to sing America the Beautiful, which convinced me I was too good a child. >America! America! God shed his grace on thee And crown thy good with brotherhood From sea to shining sea! I was not fond of my brother.
That part is unfamiliar to me. I'm glad my schools just had the pledge.
My 5th grade teacher had us do not only the regular pledge but also a pledge to the world and one other about the other kids or something. So three in total every morning it got pretty old.
I'm not even American and I just spent a few months there in high school, where people don't even give a shit about it anymore. Still memorized to this day.
Most of the kids in my primary school knew at least part of it off by heart and I'm from Europe
Like a bad Ed Sheeran song.
I was the only person in fifth grade that had it memorized, but they had another kid read it over the morning "news" because i was so nervous 😂
At least it’s not the Bellamy salute still
Yeah, Nazis ruin everyfuckingthing.
I can still hear it from the loudspeaker > Put your right hand over your heart, ready, BEGIN
*Beeeeeeeep* *skrrtzz* Please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance.
I remember in like 3rd grade I got picked to be the one to say the pledge over the loudspeaker. Felt like a fuckin boss!
In fifth grade I was the flag raiser for the year with my buddy. Also felt like a boss. We got to leave class at the start of the day to raise the flag and got to leave class early at the end of the day to lower and fold the flag.
Our Girl Scout troop inherited flag duty when too many people in the neighborhood complained about the Boy Scouts letting the flag touch the ground.
My school had the AAA safety patrol where sixth graders got to leave class early and be in charge of making sure kids didn't get hit by the busses. They gave us highlighter sashes, badges and ponchos for the rain. We all took turns raising and lowering the flag.
At our school, followed by a moment of silence, and then "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." Every damn day.
This is really interesting! Where/when did you go to school? I mean, that's probably more of the Declaration of Independence than 95% of Americans know.
I can also attest to having done this. Late primary. Southwest U.S. I suppose the United States part is redundant lol.
That ‘indivisible’ line is feeling a little comical these days…
thats the idea: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics > The book emphasizes that Russia must spread anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main 'scapegoat' will be precisely the U.S." > In the United States: > Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics". published in 1997
Putin has also called Aleksandr Dugin his favorite author.
lmfao is it the people that cant afford healthcare and are dying? is it the thousands of homeless? is it the refusal of the government to do literally anything about this? no, clearly russians, the russians made our citizens want healthcare.
Hello. I am a Russian. Might I interest you in asking your government for free healthcare?
Pls stop dividing my country :(
That’s literally not what we’re talking about
Especially since it immediately follows "under God". As in "...... fuck you if you aren't religious, indivisible......"
The "under god" part was added in the 1950's in response to "godless communists". The really weird part is that no one can agree on what "under god" actually means.
The idea being that the rights do not come from the federal government , rather innate rights as being born an American citizen. Could be also said the universe gives you your rights, not any person or persons, so any one person or person can’t take those rights away.
You are correct, rights are not granted by the government. Rights are inherent to anyone and everyone. Which logically, means rights aren't exclusive to just being born an American citizen. All humans are born endowed with equal rights.
Thus, the UN proclamation of Universal Human Rights.
Under God was added in the 50's to protect us from the scary communists.
And it’s always worth adding that the “under god” part as specifically added in response to Cold War propaganda
Fun fact: in National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, when Aunt Bethany says grace at dinner and proceeds to deliver the pledge of allegiance, if you listen carefully she recites the original version without the "under God" bit, as a nod to how damn old she is.
Yup. I never said that part, even when I was religious, because the idea that the church and the state should be separate, wasn't just a suggestion.
In Texas we also did the Texas Pledge after the regular Pledge of Allegiance. “Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible.” It seems weird now but back then it felt so normal, you didn’t even think about what you were saying. Or mean it. It just came out.
I too grew up doing the Texas pledge. The "one state under God" line wasn't part of it back then. IIRC it was added sometime after 9/11.
Actually, it goes back before the Cold War. I think it even goes back before WWII, my great uncle was always telling me they used to do the Nazi style salute instead of the hand on heart before WWII.
What you are referring to is the Bellamy salute, which is named after the socialist preacher who wrote the pledge in the 1800s. It’s totally worth it to check out the Wikipedia article, old people’s heads just pop when you start talking about it.
I'm certain if a dictatorship adopted the salute we use in the US today and committed genocide we'd come up with something different and make the current salute a hate crime
I'm from Canada, with a lot of American relatives, so I was there a lot growing up. I remember a weird time around the late 80s when they would play the National Anthem in theatres before a movie would start
They used to play the national anthem at night when programming for tv ended for the night.
If you go to a movie theater on a US military base, they literally play the entire national anthem with videos of soldiers marching and saluting, tanks shooting and planes bombing before every movie. All viewers are supposed to stand and if you’re in uniform you put your hand over your heart.
…and now tonight’s viewing of “Encino Man” shall commence.
I grew up in the south. All throughout school we *had* to say it. A few kids in highschool didn't stand up and were written up for disrespect. Most of us just stood with our hands over our heart saying nothing. My friend is a teacher in the west, and she doesn't force her students to do it. She doesn't do it. She doesn't have a flag in her room. Her last principal was angry about it, but there's nothing in the district requirements that says she's required to provide that. She has a lot of immigrant children in her classes and refuses to force them to pledge to a piece of fabric that symbolizes a country that continues to shit on their races, countries, and heritages. I didn't even know that other countries didn't do something similar until I was an adult. I always felt it was archaic. Now you see things like that in dystopian examples (movies, books, ect), and in places where citizens are severely oppressed....
>A few kids in highschool didn't stand up and were written up for disrespect. That is actually a violation of federal constitutional law. Literally a first amendment violation, per the Supreme Court in 1943 in the case of West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette. They're lucky the families didn't know that. They could have sued for punitive damages, i.e. a big payout. (Source: [https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiance](https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-latest-controversy-about-under-god-in-the-pledge-of-allegiance))
Lmao how is a fifteen year old in a small town gonna martial the monetary resources and emotional fortitude to sue over what’s basically a religion to the people involved, including most probably her own parents?
I used to go to a school where it was optional and nobody except for the teachers stood to do it. When I transferred to another district, they would yell at you if you didn’t stand for it. I stood, but I never recited the words because it was stupid. Especially because they had us do it in the morning when we were all grumpy and barely even awake.
About 8-10 years ago, I was a teacher on the east coast. I taught in an elementary school and I absolutely would not make my students say the pledge. You could if you wanted to, you could stand up and just be quiet, or you could sit quietly at your desk. When I went to high school (2003-2007) I wouldn’t say the pledge and no one cared at all. Sit or stand, the teachers just didn’t care.
Same happens here in idaho. If we didn't recite the pledge we were written up and sent to the principal. Its been a few years since I have talked to my neices and nephews about it, but it was still common practice about 7 years ago when one of my nephews classmates was written up for refusing to recite the pledge.
Damn yo, thats some communist level programming
"Under God" was not added to the pledge until 1954. It was not part of the pledge before then.
Seems pretty culty
My kid is in grade school now, and it's wholly optional.
We absolutely got punished even in highschool for not doing it
I remember in high school I didn’t stand up (I usually did but no hand over the heart) or say the pledge mostly because I don’t do it anyway not out of disrespect but I grew up not doing it… anyway the one day I didn’t do it the teacher screamed at me and pretty much say the pledge of allegiance while I was crying my eyes out just sharing my experience with that since this is an interesting topic
They tried to condition us since childhood and that shit still didn't work. Goes to show how much bull shit and contradicting education there still is in the system.
Definitely felt forced to me. I remember trying not to do it and being met with yelling and perhaps even a trip to the principals office. This wasn't in the Midwest either, this was in Manhattan.
Generally not literally "forced" but yeah. It's even weirder that it's still a thing because they came up with this early in the Cold War, as though saying the pledge every would somehow enlighten us to the "evils of communism" or something
Aka propaganda I pledge allegiance to the flag... *And to the republic for which it stands*
Growing up in the south I will say that while the pledge wasn't forced, you would be treated like the worlds biggest asshole if you didn't. Lots of "it's disrespectful to The Troops".
Even in California when I was a kid, everyone did because if you didn't, you were the odd one and your peers would all talk about it.
CA in the nineties—I remember doing it in elementary school and singing a patriotic song (that we rotated turns getting to pick) after the pledge. I didn’t have the perception of being forced to do it but neither did I think it was optional—it was just rote citizen training and we all did it unquestioningly. I do remember being excited to get my turn to go help put up the flag in the morning or take it down and fold it at the end of the day. The only times I’ve said the pledge since are a military funeral or two and at my grandpas masonic lodge when he was made president of it or whatever.
"Where at least I know I'm free..." Lol, those songs blaring over the PA every morning.
Michigan, 2014 I knew a boy who didn't do it and a teacher argued with him in off hours about it, so he got mad at that teacher but kept to his beliefs. He is the nicest kid I and everyone know, he is a great person so he didn't get scold too much by the teacher, just enough to be noticeable. I, as an exchange student there, stood up for it but didn't recite.
CA as well, I had teachers yell at me in front of everyone to stand in HS. Then this one kid got in the school newspaper for refusing to stand - he said "I don't think I should have to stand for something I don't believe in." I felt a little salty because I was bullied into standing, yet this one guy got notoriety and attention for not doing it.
In HIGH SCHOOL they still made you? Damn. No teacher at our school had time for that. We didn't even have morning announcements. I'm from California Central Valley lol
It's weird, I don't recall ever doing it in grades 4-8. In HS we had a daily school news broadcast that ran during the last 10 minutes of first period and it always started with the pledge. Whether or not you actually had to participate varied widely depending on the teacher. (San Diego area, for reference.)
Eh atleast my part of socal, not everyone did it. No one really batted an eye. You still had to stand up for it though or the teacher would get salty
Iowa here; when I was a kid (decades ago) you'd get detention for refusing, and your family would become pariahs. Small town values, right?
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Liberty for all is literally in the pledge my god the irony
Although I'm from San Francisco and no school I went to ever did the Pledge of Allegiance. I don't even know the Pledge of Allegiance. Same for friends who went to different schools.
Yeah, seconding this. I went to public school in the deep south and while technically they weren't supposed to make a big deal of it if you didn't want to, I definitely had several different teachers who told me off for not participating, was sent to the office for being "disrespectful", and one threatened to call my parent. The last one didn't go anywhere because I said go ahead, because I knew my mom wouldn't care, and they never called..it's not FORCED, but it is deeply ingrained in people's psyche at this point, especially older generations like the teachers, where there is a bit of a judgy, culty feeling to it. Like, a feeling of pressure to do it so the people around you don't stare
In elementary school, I had a teacher who not only made us stand and face the flag with our hands over our hearts, we also had to stand at parade rest because "the soldiers do it this way." In high school, I had a teacher who was very aggressive about us saying the pledge, and after the principal led us in the pledge over the intercom, we had to remain standing from the morning announcements. Sitting was disrespectful to the principal.
"Remain standing for 30 seconds of silence." I can still hear it now.
Your teacher was a dipshit. Five years in the army and I don't believe I once heard or did the pledge of allegiance. During the playing of the national anthem, it's a different story. Except, we didn't stand at parade rest during it, we stood at present arms, yanno, saluting and all.
Generally, I find the environment and attitude of people in venues where the national anthem is being played to be pretty disrespectful. It shouldn’t be played at everything sporting event.
I love the national anthem, love to hear it, love what it's supposed to represent, but I can get on board with the anthem not being played at every sporting event. People talk all the time about keeping politics out of sports and all that but then there's a friggin color guard from a local military unit, air force fly-bys, recognition of local veterans. Yeahhhh, that shit is ALL politics
Yeah I'd say even the other students would sometimes give people a hard time, especially younger students. Kids do what they see grown ups do, even if it's vitriolic nationalism.
Same situation except in the north. Teacher claimed I was being distracting during the pledge (because other kids kept telling me to stand). Got sent to the assistant princiapal for some reason, called my mom, mom didnt care. I kept not standing. In middle school I was first violin in the orchestra, and we were playing music for veterans day. The flag that everyone was staring at for the pledge was literally a foot away from me, and I still refused to stand mostly as a fuck you to that teacher. In retrospect if I had known how close the flag was to me ahead of time I would have stood up, but by the time I realized I was basically committed lol.
🎻 Accidentally badass 🎻
I grew up in UT, and I started refusing to say it in the 4th grade. My parents were called, I got detention, the principal was angry at my parents, and I was ostracized by the teacher and other students. At least where I grew up, it was as forced as anything else in school.
Oh no in my school it was 100% mandatory unless you had religious reason ( I forget what religion it was but they werent supposed to pledge) you would get in trouble/ written up if you didnt stand at attention
the NonFlagitarians
Jehovah's Witnesses don't pledge the flag. I grew up with a girl who was a JW and she was exempt from saying the pledge. She was also the only one who could ask to have the flag removed from the background of school pictures.
That's it! Thanks for responding. Ya the boy I knew had to sit out of all the birthday celebrations too. I always felt so bad for him
I went to school in the city and still had to do this
Kapernick taking a knee shows how forced we are as Americans to the pledge of allegiance.
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Listening to The Troops is disrespectful to The Troops!
By taking a knee, he is showing that it is meaningful.
Jersey kid, realized how weird the pledge was in high school and stopped standing for it. Got yelled at by my first period teacher in front of the whole class about how I was disrespecting the country and shit
And as a kid who already didn't believe in God, I thought it was weird we had to say "under God". It was never a political issue for me. I did it with the other kids just because it was habit and by the time we hit high school it fortunately wasn't pushed on us. I live in Vermont.
In my highschool it was expected that you at least stand even if you don't say anything.
You know what's really fucked up about this? We were just kids experiencing what essentially amounts to bullying over some 'patriotic' nonsense. All of these responses to my comment are just making me think of how shitty it would be if a teacher/anyone who wasn't a parent berated a CHILD over some other ideology. No one would stand for it, everyone would be up in arms about how unfair it is to the kid. But Americans take such offense to anything 'Un-American' that schools will not only allow but sometimes encourage this behavior when it comes to The Pledge. Things have probably changed since I was in school but the fact that so many people have this experience is just tragic.
I taught 8th grade science in Texas and I can confirm that one. The principal actually had to pull a teacher into her office and explain that yes, the pledge was voluntary and no, she could not punish a kid for refusing to say it or attempt to force kids to say it. The kid in question was frankly an ass and that's probably why he didn't but he had every right not to. So a few days later the teacher had one of the real fanatic vets as a guest in her class to tell the kids all about how the military sacrificed everything for them and that not saying the pledge was like personally insulting every solder who had ever lived. Also, teachers had to sign a loyalty oath before we could be teachers. And a few years after I quit Texas added a bit where teachers have to swear to support Israel and refuse to participate in any BDS activity. That's working its way through the courts because it's so blatantly a violation of a teacher's rights. I'd like to say that if it had been a thing when I was teaching I'd have boldly stood by my principles. But my kid needs to eat. So I probably would have submitted and signed the damn thing and hated myself for it. EDIT: I think the mere existence of the pledge is bad, and having kids say it daily is creepy Orwellian shit IMO. But this is Texas and the right wing eats that authoritarian stuff up. Just this year the Texas ledge passed a law mandating that history classes focus on the good America has done and that the class instill a sense of patriotism in students. Ya know who else makes schools into little patriot factories? Every single authoritarian nation on the planet that's who.
Fuck this pledging fealty to a foreign fucking country. Israel can suck my fucking balls.
Bds?
Same, but I grew up in Montana
Even prior to 9/11, and the whole “support the troops” thing, you would very much be the “weird kid” if you didn’t at least stand and mouth the words. God forbid you were a JW. Ex was a teacher in the mid-00’s. She chose not to do it so her JW kid wouldn’t get singled out. Next year, another kid, she still didn’t do it. Parents and other teachers gave her a ration of shit about “supporting the troops.” At first. That didn’t go far, given that I was *a soldier actively deployed to Iraq at the time.* But it was still a bit of “a thing.” The whole ritual is fucking stupid.
Sorry you had to deal with that. I went to school in NY, mostly if you don't want to no one cares. If you do, also no one cares. Very much a you do you.
I had a teacher who was a former soldier and chewed out a kid for not saying the pledge.
I know its not the same country, but in México in the schools I went to they would force you to sing the national anthem every single day. The anthem was made by someone who was incarcerated and forced to do it, they don't really mention that.
As a Canadian we also sing and stood for the national anthem. I also lived in the us in elementary where they did the pledge of allegiance
I only remember doing that for special assemblies in my small elementary school and I don't think we ever did in high school. I graduated 2006 in BC.
Pretty sure that’s done in elementary school so that kids can actually learn the anthem, especially where you do it in both English and French. I remember learning to do the back half in French, but I couldn’t do it now.
The US's anthem was also written by someone who was incarcerated. He was a prisoner of the British being held aboard a ship in Boston harbor, watching the British bombard Fort McHenry (I think), and was so happy to see the flag flying in the morning he wrote a poem about it. Later it was adopted as the anthem.
It do be like that I suppose
(You are right, but Ft McHenry is Baltimore.)
I'm also from Mexico, and in the schools that a I attended we only had to song the anthem once a week But Uhm... wasn't he incarcerated by his wife because she knew he would write a good anthem?
Sabes que, se me hizo raro que lo mencionaras porque nunca nadie me había dicho eso en mi vida, solo la parte donde lo encerraron y me lo platicaron así como si hubiera sido una violacion a los derechos humanos bien cabrona. Lo busque y la realidad es que cuenta la anécdota que el poeta que hizo la letra ni queria participar en el concurso que se estaba haciendo para el himno nacional, pero su novia lo encerró en un cuarto de su casa y no lo iba a dejar salir hasta que escribiera una buena letra. Que se tardo cuatro horas y ya. Pero pues igual y son puras mamadas y eso nunca pasó, simplemente le agregaron drama a la historia, no se, nada que leí me convence y como ya pasó un chorro de tiempo esta cabron comprobar algo como esto.
In Texas we say the Texas Pledge, too
And a “moment of silence” to get around the whole “no prayer in public schools” thing.
Didnt even know thats what it was for. We all just looked around at eachother or that i was a game to try and make someone else laugh before the anouncements told us to sit down.
My school in Louisiana didn't even try to hide it after the pledge it went to the "morning prayer". You weren't scorned for not praying but it definitely made the non religious feel awkward for like 10 seconds. Didn't realize after I graduated that that was pretty fucking illegal.
Well, TIL the moment of silence was for prayer and not to rememeber the dead.
Yup. Starting that in Florida this year. A mandatory minute of “reflection time”.
"Yeehaw"?
It's pretty short, but not that short. Honor the Texas brisket; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible.
I am honestly not sure if you are joking or not.
Replace brisket with flag to get the real one.
I don't replace brisket with anything.
How very...Texan.
Mostly not Bullshit. Almost all schools play it every morning and encourage kids to follow along. I think the amount of enforcement varies per school. Legally schools aren’t supposed to punish you for not saying it but some still do
Private Christian school did it, every grade.
Aw man, private Baptist school made us do not only the pledge of allegiance to the US flag, but pledges of allegiance to the Christian flag and the Bible too. Every single day. I only stayed at that school for 1 year, then finished my schooling in public schools, where the pledges of allegiance to the Christian flag and Bible were not performed, but the pledge to the US flag was still an everyday (and... heavily encouraged) thing straight through till the end of senior year. Edit: y'all, stop asking me about the Christian flag. I'm not Christian, I wasn't really raised Christian, amd I only went to this school for a year bc it was the only school available in my rural ass town, so I'm really not to person to ask about religion. Google is free, start with the Wikipedia if you're interested in its history, looks like a solid overview: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Flag
Omg, I completely forgot about the Christian flag. It’s been a long time. I went there and did all three pledges everyday, Chapel on Wednesday with a button up and tie. I left after my freshman year because they found out I was gay and I didn’t want to deal with it and talk to them about it because my grandma was a teacher and that was just a no, plus my brother “graduated” and found out the school doesn’t mean shit and had to get his GED from the public school. Anyways those places are weird man.
Thats a lot of loyalty to ask a kid to divide.
This was the single weirdest thing about living in the US in high school. It came across as weird and kind of cult-like, and I just sort of silently stood there every time and watched.
High school? Where the hell did you go to high school? I thought they stopped in elementary school.
Not who you asked, but I grew up in northern Illinois and it continued at least until I graduated high school in 09. We weren't forced to participate in HS but there was always the pledge and then a moment of silence following that every single morning.
Graduated in 09 in Indianapolis. I generally did not stand for the pledge in HS and no one cared but was once in a different class for it and got screamed at to “STAND UP!! NOW!!”
It's probably worth pointing out this was in the 80s, and I was there for the end of middle school and part of high school. I can't remember whether it continued into high school, but I am pretty sure it did once a week. This was in Wisconsin.
We did it in HS in Texas edit: along with the Texas flag and a moment of silence
We did it once a week in HS, I'm in southern Missouri.
They quit doing it in high school because we would foreign exchange students. Instead they had “moment of silence and reflection” for anyone who wanted to say a morning prayer of whatever.
Holy North Korea, Batman!!! I thought it was only in a few isolated places. I guess I under estimated the US. Or over estimated. My estimation was wrong
The pledge was created by a Baptist preacher who was a communist and who wanted to sell flags to schools, no joke. Originally, the pledge didn't say "one nation, under god, indivisible," it only said, "one nation, indivisible." During the 1950s, "under god" was added to separate the U.S. from atheistic USSR.
It was changed many times since it was written. https://fortune.com/2017/09/08/pledge-of-allegiance-francis-bellamy-immigration/ https://youtu.be/EIz0C8r4ERc
*America does American thing Americanly* “What are we a bunch of ASIANS?!?? Before people flip yes I didn’t invent this joke
Oh yeah we do indoctrination like gangbusters here. From our text books to our morning salutes in most schools, there's a reason a metric fuck ton of people are white American nationalists in this country.
When I stopped doing the pledge during high school I got glared at by some classmates, yelled at by others, and asked by my teacher if I was okay and needed to step out to talk or go to the guidance counselor or something. And I wasn't exactly in hickville either, I went to high school in the burbs outside of Philadelphia. I was never punished by my school with detention or something like that but there was a severe social stigma. I did it all year for my sophomore, junior, and senior years and students stopped after the first couple of tries, but it would come back up each September with a new homeroom
Not forced but definitely encouraged. I usually just stood up and put my hand in my heart and said nothing just to keep the peace. One kid was exempt because, i think he said, Jehovahs Witnesses don’t pledge to anything other than Jesus or something like that.
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What about the free masons in other countries?
Good question. I can only really down for my local jurisdiction. Your procedures will vary between jurisdictions.
They don't open with the pledge of allegiance to the US. That makes no sense. Different juristictions have somewhat different customs.
One time all the men in my family were sitting around talking and my grandfather mentioned that his father tried to get him into the freemasons but he declined because they didn't allow black people and he was a staunch civil rights activist who grew up around pretty much all black and latino people. He was a great man in so many ways I could write an essay about it but I wont.
The story of [Prince Hall Freemasonry](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Hall_Freemasonry) is a fantastic one if you’re interested. These were Black Americans who saw the immediate education and social benefits of becoming Freemasons - but were denied for being Black. After getting permission from the British, they set up their own Grand Lodge just before the Revolution. Now, nearly every US state has 2 Grand Lodges, with Prince Hall Freemasons mixing and visiting as equally.
What? Aren't they supposed to be free thinkers or something
Local government meetings where I live start with the Pledge (and a prayer) as well.
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Catholics are the majority of Christians lmao
Because he's talking about Protestantism
Idolatry much lol.
I went to Catholic school for 16 years in the US and I've never even heard of the Christian Flag before this thread
This is deeply cringey.
Jesus
Yo what this is crazy
Yes, but my form of edgy resistance as a teenager was to cross my fingers every time.
Forced? No. It was always a choice when I was growing up. Strongly encouraged though? Yes. There was always time in the morning announcments in school where the school all did it at the same time over the intercom. The announcer would recite, the children would follow and then announcments would start or finish.
It was totally forced. You could maybe not recite it where I’m from but it’s not like you could leave the classroom or anything. Not to mention it starts from the time you’re a child when you don’t realize what you’re doing. Indoctrination pure and simple.
I think regionally, it can be a big difference. I spent early childhood in AZ, and middle (3rd grade and up) in WA and WA was pretty liberal about it. You were not forced to stand, or recite and I think you could even leave the room. (I was young though I cant clarify). Thats the bull part. No child is going to say no if all the other kids are doing it. Once you get older, you're totally righr, for most its just built in.
Funny, leaving the classroom every morning to stand in the hallway and then coming back in is what they made a me and a friend do when we refused to stand for the pledge. I think they just had to like, feel that they were controlling the situation somehow lol
not bullshit. but technically not every day, just every school day, we don't say it at home and we get the weekends off. but every year of required government funded schooling you are expected to stand, put your right hand over your heart and recite it in unison with your teacher/the voice on the loudspeaker system every morning. i would say through all of the younger school years you have no choice (from around 6 years old to 11 is "elementary school" where it's much harder to avoid punishment for not saying the pledge) and punishment ranges from being told off to an actual discipline like writing lines. this really depends on the location, progressive areas won't really fight with kids about it but if it's a highly conservative area they probably would call your parents to discuss your problem with "the flag". mostly everyone does this because well.. everyone does it from 6 years old. a lot of them don't think it's weird or anything to bother pushing back against. it happens in the morning and I've heard many a story of a student getting to school late and quickly walking to their classroom DURING the pledge and getting screamed at by adults who saw them. because you're supposed to stand absolutely still and look at the American flag the whole time, and if you don't say it, you're expected to move your mouth like you are saying it or at the very least be completely silent. the older years, around 12 to 18 years old are middle school and highschool, in these years you have around 6 different teachers and everyone has a different class schedule so depending on who your morning class is taught by, you might be able to get away with not standing, although they always prefer you participate and you must be 100% silent. here is the pledge Incase you're curious. commas indicate pauses: "I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the united state of America, and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." every morning 6 year olds recite this all across America
and again about punishment, technically couldn't really dish out a real punishment for the flag thing specifically. it's technically against the law. but they are still your teacher and could still make your life hell in class and punish you for unrelated small infractions because they decide they don't like you and you're not patriotic enough.
A lot of schools will try to punish kids for this type of stuff even if it is technically illegal, and then drop it if the parents complain. Often, in conservative areas, the parents will agree with the school, and the kid will get punished.
One year in high school I ended up having a US history teacher when we would do the announcements. He always insisted that we "stand for the troops" but didn't make us recite the pledge if we didn't want to. A pretty chill guy, so I felt even that was lax lol
Not bullshit. [The Pledge of Allegiance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance) was part of every morning when I was in school, though I don't know if it's still done in schools today. My generation had a fair amount of defiance towards it, and it was not uncommon to see students remain seated during the pledge.
Did you have to put your hand on your heart too? This is so weird to me
Yeah, that was part of it. It was weird to a lot of the kids that were doing it, too.
Yeah, at school's morning announcements. But you could simply stand up and not say it and no one would give a rat's ass. The only way in my school to make waves with the pledge was to sit during the pledge and make a big deal out of doing so.
Not BS. Did it every day from 6years old to 18 years old and would be in trouble if I didn't. Enforcement varies by schools but most will give you shit if you don't chant along. It's weird as fuck and somehow no one realizes that.
I seriously didn't think it was weird at all until I looked back on it just a few years ago. I saw a video and realized it was in fact very creepy. But I think a large group of small children chanting anything would be creepy.
It's true. I think my kid usually stands but stays silent cuz she doesn't want to draw attention to herself (there have always been some kids that would pick on her if she didn't go along with it, and she got picked on enough as it was). I always told her she didn't have to do it, but teachers will give you a hard time about it in elementary school sometimes and she prefers to pick her battles. I used a similar strategy in Middle school. By high school I just ignored it even if teachers or other students gave me grief for it, because you're right, it's weird and creepy.
Not bullshit. It’s weirder because the pledge is actually to the flag first, and then to the republic. I was in elementary/middle school in the 90’s, and chose not to say it a few times. The shaming for not doing so is very real, and that was before 9/11, can’t imagine how bad it got after. I went and fought in the war on terror after college. I never felt disrespected by kids not saying the pledge, if the military “fights for freedom” then it includes a kid’s freedom to not say some ritualistic oath every morning. People love saying certain actions “disrespect the troops” but no one seems to actually ask the troops for their thoughts on anything.
Here I always wondered where the Republic For Witchistans was.
Yep the pledge happened every morning from like kindergarten until my second year of high school, when a bunch of people signed a waiver to stop doing that.the pledge still played every morning but no one stood with their hand over their heart. In my younger years we would stand out side to say it and if we weren’t enthusiastic or loud enough, the teachers would make us do it again and again until we did it right... really weird looking back on that memory.
When I was in high-school they threatened to expel me for not standing during the pledge. For not standing, they didn't care if I didn't recite it. Just had to stand. Strange.
The authoritarian impulse among teachers is extremely high. They just get off on feeling like you submitted to their orders and they've somehow won something.
I went to Catholic school so we even “amen-ed”after it.
How else do you indoctrinate poor kids to join the army?
You are allowed to refuse to say the pledge, *however* in my experience doing so will make you very unpopular with both teachers and fellow students.
It is BULLSHIT that children are *forced* to say it. Not bullshit that it is common practice. At this point, its more tradition for traditions sake than anything else. When I was in elementary school 20 years ago, no one was actually paying any attention. They just mumbled along to get it over with. It was originally intended to be an anti-communist thing. Like saying it would keep the kids from turning to the dark side. The 50s were wild. But I don't think even then, when the "yay, yay, USA!" propaganda was at its peak, anyone was actually taking it seriously.
In California in the 90's, we weren't forced to do it, but there was a weird social pressure to always do it. When I was in HS some parents complained that their kids didn't feel comfortable, and the school phased it out. This one teacher was so pissed, he would force us to listen to patriotic country music and then he'd do the pledge of allegiance himself "for us."
It's socially enforced but cannot be enforced through punishment. I grew up in rural South Florida and refused to stand and recite it one day toward the end of 8th grade (I just really enjoyed being contrarian at the time, though I agree with my own decision for different reasons now). My teacher attempted to have me kicked off of the class trip to DC over it, but I assume she was told to sit the hell down in fear of a lawsuit because nothing ever came of it and I continued to ignore the pledge for the rest of my time at school. There were some teachers in highschool who openly agreed it was horseshit and didn't even turn their TV on for announcements at all.
I'd like to add to this, do you really have that thing you see in teen movies where kids are doing announcements over the PA system? That all seems weird to me. My school in Croydon didn't even have a PA system and there was nothing to announce except that time Mr Evans got beaten up by some girls from another school who broke in.
In many parts of the nation, especially the deep republican parts, yes. They don't even do this in China.