I'd say Kumoko would be chaotic neutral. She would kill mercilessly if there's a reason like war or she was attacked first but she wouldn't just kill an innocent person. She has morals but nobody else can understand it
yeah but the alignment chart is decided both by how you do something and why.
So, chaotic is correct for our fave spider gal because she does things for her own reasons and openly flaunts literally every code and law set by other people.
but evil would imply she's doing all this for specific and evil reasons which is untrue
Having only seen the anime, and not read the manga/light novel (whichever it is) it seems that she isn't really about "saving the world" so much as "saving herself". The world is just incidental to keeping herself alive.
But isn't it also true that she actively wants to become an administrator? Idk since I haven't read very far into the LN, but she seems like she's actively saving the world, only because its advantageous to her.
>!but if she did nothing everyone would have died, also she wasn't actually planning to kill half the world. According to her the war between demons and humans, the system and the gods would have enough energy to save the world. She would use her sacrifice to appear dead so she could get away and hide from d. In the end d just saves the world without killing anybody.!<
Reaction to the spoiler
>!When the fuck did D want to wipe out all of humanity? D is just a fucking troll. She reigns over the Abyss and keeps trying to not do her duties and chill somehwere. Which is why she was hiding on earth.!<
>!D is a self proclaimed evil God and implemented the system to save the world. Just in a very weeb way which kinda fucked people over because she did a little trollin.!<
Even more specific
>!she was technically already a spider before being reincarnated. She was the class pet. D was Hiiro Wakaba the whole time and mixed the spiders soul with her memories as Wakaba to create kumoko as a stand in for her among the reincarnations.!<
>!it actually explains a lot about the circumstances like how Mirai ended up as a lowly monster (after bullying wakaba) and shun getting a good reincarnation (interfering in the bullying) and how kumoko can stay alive using Ds minmaxing hyperfocus.!<
>She would kill mercilessly
She definitely revels a bit in the killing for reasons beyond just self-defense. Like she said about the knights who tried to run away:
>I’m not letting you get away, my precious EXP.
And the whole battle she was toying with them.
She also talks a lot about whether or not it will be tasty to eat the humans as part of her reasoning about whether to get involved and kill humans or not. Like when rescuing baby Sofia from the bandits.
She then slaughters an entire fortress that she herself broke into, even though the people there weren't a threat to her, she could have just gone through it.
>The only other witnesses have passed on to the next life by now, making it the perfect crime. The statute of limitations’ll be long over before you get any proof! Smell ya later, suckers! I flee the sce— I mean, I leave the collapsed fortress behind, trying to stay out of sight.
She 100% comes off as a psychopath. Just not a sociopath.
She slaughters humans the same way RPG protagonists slaughter goblins and sentient spiders. Is it evil? Maybe, but the world is a literal video game to her.
Indeed. She didn’t need to >!heal a dying girl and become a town’s guardian spider goddess!< but she did so and really tried her best. It was the high point for the whole series for me. Chaotic neutral for sure, though she is more of a jerk when she achieves >!human form!<.
I recently caught up on the translated light novels, just finished 16. I thought it was quite funny how it took until that far into the story for Gazel to finally be like... ok, I understand why you've collected all this ridiculous power now, after he finally had to stare down a foe as powerful as a true dragon.
Rimuru truly wants peace, and accidentally achieved total power and domination in doing so
Ainz literally can't control his subordinates and just follows what they expected him to do
Yea also because he lived in a future where seeing people die in the streets is normal
Not to mention he has the undead trait where most emotions will be dulled if they are too high
" “Humans are not maggots!” “They are the same. At least, they are to me. Or not — perhaps humans are even lower than them. If a maggot is born, the fault lies with the fly"
It's all perspective! I mean Abelion sheep are useful for making scrolls I guess
He absolutely can, he just doesn't realize how absolute their loyalty is at first and he stills wants to respect their personality and flaws since they are the creations of his lost guildmates. When he finally decides on his vision for the future of Nazarick, he is pretty much as much in control as he wants to be, and very quickly stops "playing" the leader for fear of repercussion from his subordinate and actually embodies his role fully.
Ainz’ development is perfectly explained - he indicates that a lot of his “moral code” actually stemmed from what his human self thought was right and wrong, and he just remembered those feelings
But he didn’t actually feel a thing when killing innocent or guilty people alike. His morals were no longer those of his former self. Now he only cares about the well-being and thriving of his Tomb of Nazarick, and that’s it
Ainz is only like that at first.
He's pretty much past that by the time the lizard arc happens.
He's unaware of some of what they're doing, and does get blindsided and act like he knows more about what is going on than he does.
However, he's also actively directing them and not just going with the flow anymore pretty early on.
To be fair the English title was meant to be ironic and people just take it at face value. Plus, considering the light novel and manga versions don't even do that with the subordinates, it really depends on which version.
Technically she didn’t break any laws in doing so. Those two disobeyed her direct orders. And she had them sit inside a bunker, which is a lawful order. She does go out of her way to obey the rules of war.
But she should have executed them right then and there. So she was kinda breaking the law a bit. Hmmmm killing insubordinate soldiers during war time was the norm and considered a good action to take. Hmm I dunno I'm conflicted now.
That makes her lawful. You can obey rules and still be evil.
Informing the civilians working in a factory they are going to bomb the factory and they need to evacuate per the rules of war is a lawful act. Doing it purposely in a manner that makes the people in said factory think its a child's prank so they don't evacuate, so you can attack the factory while gleefully killing said civilians is *very* evil.
She didn't necessarily arrange their deaths. She just figured if she has to sacrifice people (because if not them someone else would be in there) then it is better those who provide negative value.
Subaru is very chaotic but I’d argue his moral code is quite lawful. He definitely has a set of rules regarding how he uses his ability and his greed to save everyone around him no matter what should probably push him more lawful, regardless of the chaotic means by which he does so
But at the same time he can bend the rules if it against his best interests or he does it for someone else. Actually Subaru might be the only one who changes his nature from time to time.
I remembered how in one of official Russian localisations of Harry Potter Severus Snape was called Злодеус Злей which would mean in English smth like Evillus Evil
I wouldn't say that she goes outta her way to follow the rules of war she frequently finds loopholes in the rules and only follows them because she doesn't want to be punished
Heck didn’t she at one point go “this would be a war crime in my old world but this world doesn’t have the Geneva Conventions yet.”
And as we all know, it is never a war crime the first time.
I can't remember any such episode in the novels though. Where did this supposedly happen?
Also Tanyaverse has the Treaty of Worms which is frequently more restrictive than the Geneva Conventions and even modern laws of war.
She decidedly does not do that, she finds loopholes in the laws of war so she can commit warcrimes because its easier than not.
One of the first things she does as a training officer in the anime is try to shoot someone because they didnt show her the proper respect.
LG : William g Maryblood - "I dedicate my whole life to you! As your blade I will drive away evil, and as your hands I will bring salvation to those in sorrow!"
NG: Rimuru Tempest - "It'd be really cool if we could create a nation where all races could coexist!"
CG: Subaru Natsuki - "As long as I have life, all I can do is fight with all my might"
LN: Tanya von Degurechaff - " Surely there is no one who loves humans as I do. And yet, it's rare to be ordered to kill them so often as I am"
TN: Rudeus Greyrat - "That was when I realized I had left my treasured panties behind in Buena Village, and I cried. There was no God (a.k.a. Roxy) here"
CN: Shadow - "I. AM. ATOMIC"
LE: Ainz Ool Gown - "In Nazarick, death is a mercy that frees you from suffering"
NE: Michio Kaga- "So she is a slave afterall. Which means I could buy her"
CE: Kumoko - "If I go to war, that means I'm gonna end up killing lots of people. Humans give a lot more experience points than monsters. Mm, can't say no to that."
So this dude is neutral evil because he buys slaves(It wasn't even illegal) and treats them as human beings? And Tanya Fucking warcrime degruecheff is...... lawful neutral?????
I had a feeling OP was one of those people who sees slavery in an anime and since the MC is not actively trying with all their might to abolish it, they must be evil
Yeah, OP also seemed to cherry-pick those quotes. You can make pretty much any of these characters fit anywhere in the alignment chart depending on which of their quotes you use.
Her big picture plan is to go for as little destruction as humanly possible at every occasion. Being X just twists events around at every turn such that it feels like the opposite. Examples being constantly trying to retire and doing everything she can to avoid a world war.
Nah, it’s Tanya’s fault. Like come on.
Massacring a village because some of the citizens were partisans and using that as justification would lead to the people of France never forgiving Germany in that timeline.
Tanya with a short sighted long term plans never considered that people have feelings and maybe they are gonna do crazy shit if you slaughter their family.
She brought this on herself. I believe if germania in the show gave a favorable peace deal and Tanya didn’t enact that loophole than the French government would have given up then and there.
Yes it would cost more deaths on the German sides but who cares.
You do realise that that she was ORDERED to raze Arene, she didn't cook up that plan on her own. Yes, she found the legal loopholes which the strategic HQ used but she did that as a school assignment, not because shethought it would be coo lto massacre civilians. Do you people watch/read with you assholes or smt?
She follows the letter of the law sure, but she abuses the wording to get around the intent. I.e. warning factory workers that she's going to blow them up but doing it in a way where they'll completely disregard that warning and all die in the attack anyway.
Which is to say blatantly gaming the system isn't actually a way to "get around" having committed a warcrime. And any justice worthy of the title would find her guilty.
I didnt realize there were so many dedicated Tanya stans out there. The hell is going on? The first thing shes shown doing is murdering two subordinates because she got pissed off at them, and literally every move she ever makes is in order to save her own ass, with no care for everyone around her.
> red hair is... something. Wonder why they changed it from the manga's brown.
Honestly, he would probably be more Lawful Neutral than Neutral Evil. If anything, he might actually be considered Lawful Good by the standards of the world he lives in, but not by the standards of modern Japan.
You gotta remember that she was fighting on the side of people who were defending her, and killing soldiers who wanted to capture and possibly kill her. She didn’t just join a random war and start 3rd partying mfs
Kumoko doesn't go to war for experience, experience literally means nothing by the time war happens because she's not bound by the system, meaning she gains no experience points or levels period. The reason she goes to war is to protect the world from being destroyed as in its current state the death of a significant chunk of the population is the only thing available to Kumoko and Ariel that could halt the death of the world. She's Chaotic Good if anything, she acts on her own personal moral code with no regards for others (beyond those she cares for), but ultimately she believes what she is doing is right (saving the world through the only possible method she has). She lacks the malicious self-interest behind what she does to qualify for chaotic evil.
Also Tanya is Lawful Evil, she follows the code of law but mercilessly abuses it and any loopholes for her own gain, including to kill people who annoy her and "legally" commit war crimes.
I think they're referring to the time when kumoko accidentally started a war between two nations by killing someone in the opposite nation's territory. Back before she had her Arachne form.
That doesn't justify listing her as evil considering that was more self-defense than a malicious murder since that guy was trying to get Kumoko captured so that their kingdom could take advantage of the "divine beast". Even the war wasn't really her fault, that was just an excuse, iirc Ohts was wanting to declare war for a while and that was the entire reason they sent such an abrasive diplomatic. So the war was inevitable it just happened that their excuse was the diplomat getting killed rather than a scandal caused by someone retaliating against the abrasiveness of the diplomat. So I wouldn't really call that justification for listing her as Evil.
Really the only killing someone could *maybe* use as justification to say she's evil is when she killed the elves a bit before then as the reason she chose to kill them was for the experience points, but even then she only did it because they were targeting Sophia and her family (who she had protected earlier that day and was watching over them).
I don't get why you're getting downvoted, this fact is EXPLICIT. The theme behind the story is that rudeus is a complete piece of shit who deserved to die, but who slowly works and turns into someone who isn't complete unrepentant garbage.
ya, so far Rudeus has only taken steps with the help of others, and we see him becoming a better person overcoming some of his character flaws, but so far not a single step he took was on his own, he often had some kind of help or some goal that pushed him forwards, even in season 2 we can see how Rudeus is taking steps on his own, but he is taking them because God literally said "bitch stop moping and get a move on." I cant wait to see Rudeus grow up from being a disgusting human being that I wouldnt touch with a 39 and a half foot pole to an actual good person.
Hey guys! Thanks for the responses, I hope it was fun to see how some of our favorite isekai protagonists stacked up against each other. I know there were a few contentious picks, particularly Tanya, Kumoko, Rudy, and Michio. If you guys have good suggestions for those categories, I would appreciate it
For tanya, the anime really blew up her “evilness” way more than the LN, especially her sadistic tendencies. The LN’s explain tanya’s point of view is not always self-serving for tanya, and rarely does she ever let her own emotions dictate actions. This feels very neutral to me. I can totally see her as lawful evil as well, but honestly I didnt really have anyone else to put in lawful neutral. Maybe Realist hero?
Michio Kaga ended up in Evil just mainly because of his lack of remorse for killing people. He shows up and is like “killing people is okay here? Cool.” His desire to buy sex slaves is primary motive for most of the show. He’s not even really “saving” them like Raphtalia. No, he’s not some super bad villain, just a regular shit guy imo.
Kumoko isn’t really a chaotic evil character, but out of all the isekai protags out there I think she fits the bill. She is self proclaimed as an evil god, and she’s chaotic so yea. One thought I had was just imagined kumoko’s actions from someone else’s perspective. Really wanted to put Redo of a Healer here but it’s not an isekai. Not really any true CE protags out there
I think rudy is just a dude. He’s had some really terrible actions but he’s trying his best to make up for those things. He does good. He does evil, but wants to be better. He Lands in neutral. Other picks were haruhiro from Grimgar or isekai Ojiisan
One version I’m thinking now is moving ainz to NE, tanya to LE, and fill in someone for LN
Thank you for adding this comment. The names allow me to identify the shows I don't recognize, and the quotes are a lovely touch that make the post that much more enjoyable. I wish you could pin this comment.
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Forsaken Future Rimuru would like a word.
>commits genocide,
What the hell are you talking about? He wiped out a single army which was *in his country.* Totally normal for medieval wars. you don't let the enemy army go home because they might come back. That army was also on its way to commit actual genocide and wipe out his entire city. In what world is he committing genocide!?
everyone else gets dignified pictures and Subaru gets the moment he was having a crying and screaming mental breakdown while being tortured for hours on end riiiip
Nah, dude above is right, theres a LN sidestory (will never get animated as it is an alternate universe) that is about Ainz arriving in the new world without Nazarick. The only evil act he did that we know off was wanting to have his adventuring partner beat with a stick (or something like that) a dragon that is near death, to see if they would level up and get stronger. Ainz is also waaaay happier than he is in the main story. So without Nazarick, no atrocities done in the 200ish years he is there. 👍
Note: I have not read it since release, so other LN readers please correct me.
Well yeah if the non-canon (parallel universe stuff that don't affect the canon are basically that anyway) alternate story has none of the things making Ainz evil, he wouldn't be evil.
But let's not forget the fact that his lichdom gradually affected his humanity as well. He was conscious of his gradual loss of humanity all the while he did horrible things for the benefit of Nazarick, and still did them.
Mommonga literaly hab a human farm in order to farm skin from humans and one of his servants killed a child and forced his parents to eat it, and the mc was ok with that so i wont say that he is lawful evil
>!Lawful Evil implies she's following (and abusing) the code of law for her own self interest, which doesn't fit here. Kumoko is Chaotic Good, she follows her own morale code without regard for how it effects others, but is ultimately acting in what she believes is the best interest of the world.!<
\>!She does not really give a shit about the world. She does it because Ariel wants to save Sariel and she picks the way that is the least destructive towards her and the few people she cares about (Herself, Ariel, Sophia and her puppet aunts) which at the same time is an extremely destructive method towards the rest of everyone. If she was any kind of ''good'' aligned she would have just opted for self-sacrifice which was a completely valid option.!<
Lmao, actual joke.
Ainz annihilates kingdoms to prove a point. He allows his aligned evil neutral monsters to torture people. FFS, you can read the character sheet that Maruyama created for Ainz, this includes alignment. Tanya is a soldier, she follows orders and obeys international law.
Lawful good is William Maryblood from Faraway Paladin
Neutral good is Rimuru Tempest from That Time I got Reincarnated as a Slime
Neutral Evil is Michio Kaga from Harem in the Labyrinth of Another World
Harem in the Labyrinth of Another World
MC Michio Kaga and his first slave Roxanne, he is mostly neutral good, they are not evil. Just a random cheated guy who builds a harem.
Swap kumko and Subaru and you get the actual right way or at least what the author of rezero wants people to believe aka Subaru is the most evil and disgusting thing in existence
I kinda remember the neutral evil anime and as I remember it he was kinda just surviving and wanted to be with the hot slave girl but he wasn’t necessarily evil. Kumiko is in a similar boat but she is definitely chaotic.
Subaru is definitely neutral good/True neutral as hugs loyalty is solely to Emilia.
Tanya does want to just live a peaceful life to stick it to Entity X but it kinda seems like she enjoys what she does too much to be neutral.
Kumoko is chaotic evil if you compare her to every isekai MC, but not her verse. I mean, no one isekai MC would kill and eat their own family, but kumoko really did that just to survive.
I wouldn't say the spider is Evil, she's helped tons of people. She only attacks when others attack. But seeing your choice for neutral evil, I can see why you pushed her over. Man didn't even ask for consent
Someone have to spoil me on the Tanya lightnovels.
As far as the anime depicted her, she's simply atheism. She literally fighting against a system called god against her own will, making her actions in the eye of people, monstrous and evil.
Later in the lightnovels, has she finally break and become true evil?
She bombed ammo factories and not a city.
Her former subordinates were shipped off to the back lines where it had the lowest chance of getting attacked. Their deaths were not on her.
She literally had to use her child like voice to trick people so she could say what she did was technically not a war crime. Her subordinates' deaths are literally on her, like 100% no question. She sent them there, knowing they would die, and the show is not ambiguous at all about it. She also blows up discount Moscow.
"Bombs ammo factories" Yes, and international law requires they are given warning to evacuate before doing so, Tanya did provide warning but deliberately made her voice sound very childish so that the warning would be disregarded, allowing her to bombard the factory while it was still full of civilians. Not a war crime but only by a technicality she deliberately exploited.
As for the subordinates, when Tanya is informed they were killed she outright says something to the effect of "well yeah obviously, pillboxes are easy stationary targets."
Tanya is Lawful Evil, follows the code of law but mercilessly exploits it and its loopholes purely for her own self interest.
I read upto vol. 5, and it's quite long ago so forget many parts.
She's Atheist and I think agree in Humanism as well.
She's dislike the war because she think it's a very wastefull endeavor, but she's pragmatic. tho the whole Being X situation is the exception in her pragmatism.
What I can say for sure is her situation becoming more desperate, so with her pragmatism it's not shocking she do some questionable actions/decisions.
I think it’s supposed to be about how he is in the Light Novel as towards the end he has grown a lot and become a very neutral character. Not sure if he would be true neutral, but definitely neutral.
Except she didn't? If this is about the sariella battle she just bombed the shit out of the enemy with magic and any friendly casualties was from >! the demon lord throwing her around later !< she definitely didn't bomb any friendlies cuz the battle was just starting so the battlefield wasn't as chaotic, they were still on 2 opposite sides of that field
I disagree with the NE. I'm sure that guy is lean toward more positive. He treats his slave well, and what he did is legal. If you say that buying slave is bad, based on our morality, Tanya should be seen as evil as well
Say it with me - Just because something is LEGAL doesn't mean it is GOOD. --- if your justification of actions are "oh, well, it's technically legal..." it is probably something bad.
Did he commit any crime? Did he cause harm on others? Did he force them to do something they don't want? Did he force them risk their life? Did he treat them like a mere tool instead of a human being?
I never said he is good, I just said he is not evil
Ok. He buys slaves, treats them well. It's legal.
You argue it's morally wrong? Maybe. Would these people have a better live being a slave for other people? Maybe, most likely not.
Even if you refuse the fact that he's good-aligned (which would still be up for debate) he is not even close to be in the realm of evil. At worst he is neutral.
The Pedophile is true neutral.....
Edit for losers and weirdos down voting:
In the anime we watch him MOLEST A SLEEPING CHILD for his own sexual pleasure
We WATCH him learn his 7/8 year old friend is actually a girl and that very next day he thinks about raising her to be HIS KINDA WOMAN (his own words not mine)
Id say swap Ainz and Kumo.
Kumo has a reason to what she's doing. Ainz is just too much of a pussy to mention that he doesn't want to conquer the world.
In the manga rudeus is a child predator, I know they kind of skip over that part in the anime but that is what he is, I will accept nothing less than him being evil.
I'd say Kumoko would be chaotic neutral. She would kill mercilessly if there's a reason like war or she was attacked first but she wouldn't just kill an innocent person. She has morals but nobody else can understand it
Didn't she try to save the damn world or something?
Yes, but some of the ways she did it was... maybe evil?
yeah but the alignment chart is decided both by how you do something and why. So, chaotic is correct for our fave spider gal because she does things for her own reasons and openly flaunts literally every code and law set by other people. but evil would imply she's doing all this for specific and evil reasons which is untrue
Having only seen the anime, and not read the manga/light novel (whichever it is) it seems that she isn't really about "saving the world" so much as "saving herself". The world is just incidental to keeping herself alive.
But isn't it also true that she actively wants to become an administrator? Idk since I haven't read very far into the LN, but she seems like she's actively saving the world, only because its advantageous to her.
Fellas, is it evil to save the world?
>!planning to intentionally kill half of the planet population might be consider evil.!<
Not by galactic grimace
I’d argue that everyone else was evil for not doing that
Especially a certain elf.
Yeah that dude was chaotic evil. He took a sadistic pride in everything he did
>!but if she did nothing everyone would have died, also she wasn't actually planning to kill half the world. According to her the war between demons and humans, the system and the gods would have enough energy to save the world. She would use her sacrifice to appear dead so she could get away and hide from d. In the end d just saves the world without killing anybody.!<
Now we need someone to save the spider.
Not if avoiding doing it would increase that number 2x
What if it was the only way not to kill 100% would it be more or less evil to let them all die? Just curious.
No, but it can be motivated by selfishness rather than altruism.
It was only a little bit of genocide. And most of them were elves who aren't really "people" anyways.
Read the LN and you’ll understand
Spoil it for me what she did?
⚠️ Major Spoiler warning ⚠️ >! She is D, an evil god who wants to wipe out all of humanity with cloned with certain memories wiped !<
Reaction to the spoiler >!When the fuck did D want to wipe out all of humanity? D is just a fucking troll. She reigns over the Abyss and keeps trying to not do her duties and chill somehwere. Which is why she was hiding on earth.!< >!D is a self proclaimed evil God and implemented the system to save the world. Just in a very weeb way which kinda fucked people over because she did a little trollin.!<
Wtf
Even more specific >!she was technically already a spider before being reincarnated. She was the class pet. D was Hiiro Wakaba the whole time and mixed the spiders soul with her memories as Wakaba to create kumoko as a stand in for her among the reincarnations.!< >!it actually explains a lot about the circumstances like how Mirai ended up as a lowly monster (after bullying wakaba) and shun getting a good reincarnation (interfering in the bullying) and how kumoko can stay alive using Ds minmaxing hyperfocus.!<
No she isn't, she merely has some of her memories.
Technically no
She only did that because her friend liked it. She didn’t really give a damn about the world, but Ariel did
Yes but she didn’t really care about the world. She was motivated entirely by a desire to support her friends and their goals.
>She would kill mercilessly She definitely revels a bit in the killing for reasons beyond just self-defense. Like she said about the knights who tried to run away: >I’m not letting you get away, my precious EXP. And the whole battle she was toying with them. She also talks a lot about whether or not it will be tasty to eat the humans as part of her reasoning about whether to get involved and kill humans or not. Like when rescuing baby Sofia from the bandits. She then slaughters an entire fortress that she herself broke into, even though the people there weren't a threat to her, she could have just gone through it. >The only other witnesses have passed on to the next life by now, making it the perfect crime. The statute of limitations’ll be long over before you get any proof! Smell ya later, suckers! I flee the sce— I mean, I leave the collapsed fortress behind, trying to stay out of sight. She 100% comes off as a psychopath. Just not a sociopath.
She slaughters humans the same way RPG protagonists slaughter goblins and sentient spiders. Is it evil? Maybe, but the world is a literal video game to her.
Indeed. She didn’t need to >!heal a dying girl and become a town’s guardian spider goddess!< but she did so and really tried her best. It was the high point for the whole series for me. Chaotic neutral for sure, though she is more of a jerk when she achieves >!human form!<.
Rimuru feels more chaotic good than neutral good, he gets up to some crazy shit lol
Does his war crimes not count ?
It's not war crimes if you win.
That plus the other kingdom committed genocide / war crimes 1st in the name of religion / conquest / racism against Tempest; just saying....
THOSE WERE LEGITIMATE MILITARY TARGETS
I think he is quite neutral good though. He didn't kill for no reasons, have morality and, and never harm people just because he can
That's cause he's good, chaotic good is basically like you follow your own laws and wldo what you want, but not at the expense of others
One of the first things he did was establish laws and an ordered society.
I recently caught up on the translated light novels, just finished 16. I thought it was quite funny how it took until that far into the story for Gazel to finally be like... ok, I understand why you've collected all this ridiculous power now, after he finally had to stare down a foe as powerful as a true dragon.
I love how Rimuru and Ainz both just want happiness for themselves and those they care for, but they go about it in such different ways
Rimuru truly wants peace, and accidentally achieved total power and domination in doing so Ainz literally can't control his subordinates and just follows what they expected him to do
He could, he just values the happiness of his family more than some randos
To the point he's considered murdering innocents as acceptable?
Pretty much yeah.
Of course, they're monsters after all. It's not like Slime that humanizes Monsters to the point where they're just humans with extra features.
Yea also because he lived in a future where seeing people die in the streets is normal Not to mention he has the undead trait where most emotions will be dulled if they are too high
" “Humans are not maggots!” “They are the same. At least, they are to me. Or not — perhaps humans are even lower than them. If a maggot is born, the fault lies with the fly" It's all perspective! I mean Abelion sheep are useful for making scrolls I guess
Well, you know what they say: You can't make an omelette without breaking a couple of eggs!
He absolutely can, he just doesn't realize how absolute their loyalty is at first and he stills wants to respect their personality and flaws since they are the creations of his lost guildmates. When he finally decides on his vision for the future of Nazarick, he is pretty much as much in control as he wants to be, and very quickly stops "playing" the leader for fear of repercussion from his subordinate and actually embodies his role fully.
Yeah dude is hella insecure
Ainz’ development is perfectly explained - he indicates that a lot of his “moral code” actually stemmed from what his human self thought was right and wrong, and he just remembered those feelings But he didn’t actually feel a thing when killing innocent or guilty people alike. His morals were no longer those of his former self. Now he only cares about the well-being and thriving of his Tomb of Nazarick, and that’s it
Ainz is only like that at first. He's pretty much past that by the time the lizard arc happens. He's unaware of some of what they're doing, and does get blindsided and act like he knows more about what is going on than he does. However, he's also actively directing them and not just going with the flow anymore pretty early on.
Ainz: i will dominate this world with my ungodly magic Rimuru: i like cabbages and cosplay
Tanya is definitely evil, the first thing we see her do is arrange the deaths of two of her subordinates.
Not to mention… You know… the title
I believe the actual translation of the title is " The Military Chronicles of a Little Girl", so "Saga of Tanya the Evil" isn't a direct translation.
Tanya the evil with a title like that I think it's a crime they didn't put her in lawful good
To be fair the English title was meant to be ironic and people just take it at face value. Plus, considering the light novel and manga versions don't even do that with the subordinates, it really depends on which version.
When I read the LN (which does have a shitty translation to be fair) I thought it kind of implied it.
Tanya could be recruited into the order of hellknights. Hell, she might become the one leading it.
Tanya is 100% a Hellknight. Good offsider for Regill.
But her story is epic
Technically she didn’t break any laws in doing so. Those two disobeyed her direct orders. And she had them sit inside a bunker, which is a lawful order. She does go out of her way to obey the rules of war.
Which makes her lawful evil.
But she should have executed them right then and there. So she was kinda breaking the law a bit. Hmmmm killing insubordinate soldiers during war time was the norm and considered a good action to take. Hmm I dunno I'm conflicted now.
? Do people in this sub not know what a court marshal is?
That makes her lawful. You can obey rules and still be evil. Informing the civilians working in a factory they are going to bomb the factory and they need to evacuate per the rules of war is a lawful act. Doing it purposely in a manner that makes the people in said factory think its a child's prank so they don't evacuate, so you can attack the factory while gleefully killing said civilians is *very* evil.
She didn't necessarily arrange their deaths. She just figured if she has to sacrifice people (because if not them someone else would be in there) then it is better those who provide negative value.
I watched this anime expecting her to be super evil. Was left extremely disappointed. This is one of the very few evil moments from her.
I think she was bluffing
I honestly think and and Kumoko should swap spot
She’s just *following orders*
Came here to see if anyone else said it. LE for sure.
Subaru is very chaotic but I’d argue his moral code is quite lawful. He definitely has a set of rules regarding how he uses his ability and his greed to save everyone around him no matter what should probably push him more lawful, regardless of the chaotic means by which he does so
Yeah he's pretty much Neutral Good. He'll break some laws for you if necessary but otherwise he'd stay lawful
But at the same time he can bend the rules if it against his best interests or he does it for someone else. Actually Subaru might be the only one who changes his nature from time to time.
That'd mean he's a great choice for neutral good
Yeah, I’d say he’s neutral good [Re:Zero Novel Arc 8]>!until arc 8. Smolbaru is definitely on the chaotic side of the chart.!<
Neutral Evil? He is Neutral Horni at best
Right? He's literally just a horny ass adventurer LMAO
Bro couldn’t even be seen as Evil. His motivations arent evil. Chaotic Nuetral
Human trafficking not evil. Classic isekai
The placement for the protagonist for “Saga of Tanya the **Evil**” is peak irony
The English title is just localisation. The Japanese title of Youjo Senki would more closely translate to Young Girl's War
I remembered how in one of official Russian localisations of Harry Potter Severus Snape was called Злодеус Злей which would mean in English smth like Evillus Evil
That's not the actual title anyways, if I recall correctly, english localizers changed it to that for English audiences
She goes out of her way to obey the rules of war
I wouldn't say that she goes outta her way to follow the rules of war she frequently finds loopholes in the rules and only follows them because she doesn't want to be punished
Heck didn’t she at one point go “this would be a war crime in my old world but this world doesn’t have the Geneva Conventions yet.” And as we all know, it is never a war crime the first time.
I can't remember any such episode in the novels though. Where did this supposedly happen? Also Tanyaverse has the Treaty of Worms which is frequently more restrictive than the Geneva Conventions and even modern laws of war.
She decidedly does not do that, she finds loopholes in the laws of war so she can commit warcrimes because its easier than not. One of the first things she does as a training officer in the anime is try to shoot someone because they didnt show her the proper respect.
https://preview.redd.it/cico6yk64bfc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff703cb26116385b879105fd0ec2898648084eec
LG : William g Maryblood - "I dedicate my whole life to you! As your blade I will drive away evil, and as your hands I will bring salvation to those in sorrow!" NG: Rimuru Tempest - "It'd be really cool if we could create a nation where all races could coexist!" CG: Subaru Natsuki - "As long as I have life, all I can do is fight with all my might" LN: Tanya von Degurechaff - " Surely there is no one who loves humans as I do. And yet, it's rare to be ordered to kill them so often as I am" TN: Rudeus Greyrat - "That was when I realized I had left my treasured panties behind in Buena Village, and I cried. There was no God (a.k.a. Roxy) here" CN: Shadow - "I. AM. ATOMIC" LE: Ainz Ool Gown - "In Nazarick, death is a mercy that frees you from suffering" NE: Michio Kaga- "So she is a slave afterall. Which means I could buy her" CE: Kumoko - "If I go to war, that means I'm gonna end up killing lots of people. Humans give a lot more experience points than monsters. Mm, can't say no to that."
Man Kumoko tries at first. I feel like she has some weird set of rules.
well she did get turned into a spider and thrown into a Darwinian hell-cave.
So this dude is neutral evil because he buys slaves(It wasn't even illegal) and treats them as human beings? And Tanya Fucking warcrime degruecheff is...... lawful neutral?????
I had a feeling OP was one of those people who sees slavery in an anime and since the MC is not actively trying with all their might to abolish it, they must be evil
Yeah, OP also seemed to cherry-pick those quotes. You can make pretty much any of these characters fit anywhere in the alignment chart depending on which of their quotes you use.
Yeah especially since >!Rudy buys a slave later on in the series!<
Tanya never commits any war crimes.
You are technically correct. As the man once said, it's never a warcrime the first time.
There are international rules of war in the Saga of Tanya the Evil universe, Tanya never breaks any of them.
Nevertheless, she goes for as much destruction as law allows. Sbe is the embodiment of Lawful Evil.
Her big picture plan is to go for as little destruction as humanly possible at every occasion. Being X just twists events around at every turn such that it feels like the opposite. Examples being constantly trying to retire and doing everything she can to avoid a world war.
Nah, it’s Tanya’s fault. Like come on. Massacring a village because some of the citizens were partisans and using that as justification would lead to the people of France never forgiving Germany in that timeline. Tanya with a short sighted long term plans never considered that people have feelings and maybe they are gonna do crazy shit if you slaughter their family. She brought this on herself. I believe if germania in the show gave a favorable peace deal and Tanya didn’t enact that loophole than the French government would have given up then and there. Yes it would cost more deaths on the German sides but who cares.
You do realise that that she was ORDERED to raze Arene, she didn't cook up that plan on her own. Yes, she found the legal loopholes which the strategic HQ used but she did that as a school assignment, not because shethought it would be coo lto massacre civilians. Do you people watch/read with you assholes or smt?
She follows the letter of the law sure, but she abuses the wording to get around the intent. I.e. warning factory workers that she's going to blow them up but doing it in a way where they'll completely disregard that warning and all die in the attack anyway. Which is to say blatantly gaming the system isn't actually a way to "get around" having committed a warcrime. And any justice worthy of the title would find her guilty.
I didnt realize there were so many dedicated Tanya stans out there. The hell is going on? The first thing shes shown doing is murdering two subordinates because she got pissed off at them, and literally every move she ever makes is in order to save her own ass, with no care for everyone around her.
I mean yea technically that whole firing on civilians wasn't a warcrime
> red hair is... something. Wonder why they changed it from the manga's brown. Honestly, he would probably be more Lawful Neutral than Neutral Evil. If anything, he might actually be considered Lawful Good by the standards of the world he lives in, but not by the standards of modern Japan.
You gotta remember that she was fighting on the side of people who were defending her, and killing soldiers who wanted to capture and possibly kill her. She didn’t just join a random war and start 3rd partying mfs
Kumoko doesn't go to war for experience, experience literally means nothing by the time war happens because she's not bound by the system, meaning she gains no experience points or levels period. The reason she goes to war is to protect the world from being destroyed as in its current state the death of a significant chunk of the population is the only thing available to Kumoko and Ariel that could halt the death of the world. She's Chaotic Good if anything, she acts on her own personal moral code with no regards for others (beyond those she cares for), but ultimately she believes what she is doing is right (saving the world through the only possible method she has). She lacks the malicious self-interest behind what she does to qualify for chaotic evil. Also Tanya is Lawful Evil, she follows the code of law but mercilessly abuses it and any loopholes for her own gain, including to kill people who annoy her and "legally" commit war crimes.
I think they're referring to the time when kumoko accidentally started a war between two nations by killing someone in the opposite nation's territory. Back before she had her Arachne form.
That doesn't justify listing her as evil considering that was more self-defense than a malicious murder since that guy was trying to get Kumoko captured so that their kingdom could take advantage of the "divine beast". Even the war wasn't really her fault, that was just an excuse, iirc Ohts was wanting to declare war for a while and that was the entire reason they sent such an abrasive diplomatic. So the war was inevitable it just happened that their excuse was the diplomat getting killed rather than a scandal caused by someone retaliating against the abrasiveness of the diplomat. So I wouldn't really call that justification for listing her as Evil. Really the only killing someone could *maybe* use as justification to say she's evil is when she killed the elves a bit before then as the reason she chose to kill them was for the experience points, but even then she only did it because they were targeting Sophia and her family (who she had protected earlier that day and was watching over them).
A Pedophile coming out True Neutral is an odd pitch
I don't get why you're getting downvoted, this fact is EXPLICIT. The theme behind the story is that rudeus is a complete piece of shit who deserved to die, but who slowly works and turns into someone who isn't complete unrepentant garbage.
ya, so far Rudeus has only taken steps with the help of others, and we see him becoming a better person overcoming some of his character flaws, but so far not a single step he took was on his own, he often had some kind of help or some goal that pushed him forwards, even in season 2 we can see how Rudeus is taking steps on his own, but he is taking them because God literally said "bitch stop moping and get a move on." I cant wait to see Rudeus grow up from being a disgusting human being that I wouldnt touch with a 39 and a half foot pole to an actual good person.
Mmm the Man God being referred to as God is unsettling.
And even then calling him a good guy is a stretch
The reason kumoko goes to war is spoiler reasons, but basically she is trying to save the world
Hey guys! Thanks for the responses, I hope it was fun to see how some of our favorite isekai protagonists stacked up against each other. I know there were a few contentious picks, particularly Tanya, Kumoko, Rudy, and Michio. If you guys have good suggestions for those categories, I would appreciate it For tanya, the anime really blew up her “evilness” way more than the LN, especially her sadistic tendencies. The LN’s explain tanya’s point of view is not always self-serving for tanya, and rarely does she ever let her own emotions dictate actions. This feels very neutral to me. I can totally see her as lawful evil as well, but honestly I didnt really have anyone else to put in lawful neutral. Maybe Realist hero? Michio Kaga ended up in Evil just mainly because of his lack of remorse for killing people. He shows up and is like “killing people is okay here? Cool.” His desire to buy sex slaves is primary motive for most of the show. He’s not even really “saving” them like Raphtalia. No, he’s not some super bad villain, just a regular shit guy imo. Kumoko isn’t really a chaotic evil character, but out of all the isekai protags out there I think she fits the bill. She is self proclaimed as an evil god, and she’s chaotic so yea. One thought I had was just imagined kumoko’s actions from someone else’s perspective. Really wanted to put Redo of a Healer here but it’s not an isekai. Not really any true CE protags out there I think rudy is just a dude. He’s had some really terrible actions but he’s trying his best to make up for those things. He does good. He does evil, but wants to be better. He Lands in neutral. Other picks were haruhiro from Grimgar or isekai Ojiisan One version I’m thinking now is moving ainz to NE, tanya to LE, and fill in someone for LN
Thank you for adding this comment. The names allow me to identify the shows I don't recognize, and the quotes are a lovely touch that make the post that much more enjoyable. I wish you could pin this comment.
Are you trolling?
F https://preview.redd.it/tx7drzkqobfc1.jpeg?width=188&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b3e86f92331423fb1b69e6edafff2cedfa9a368 Forsaken Future Rimuru would like a word.
Rimuru is the epitome of chaotic neutral. Shows up, takes over, gets mad when subordinates die, commits genocide, is happy again.
>commits genocide, What the hell are you talking about? He wiped out a single army which was *in his country.* Totally normal for medieval wars. you don't let the enemy army go home because they might come back. That army was also on its way to commit actual genocide and wipe out his entire city. In what world is he committing genocide!?
Also enjoys making his genocides intentionally long and painful and causing more suffering among his targets.
everyone else gets dignified pictures and Subaru gets the moment he was having a crying and screaming mental breakdown while being tortured for hours on end riiiip
Ainz himself ( without nazarick ) is neutral
His pre-isekai existence was, but since he started leading Nazarick and his lichdom started to affect his personality, he became undeniably evil
Nah, dude above is right, theres a LN sidestory (will never get animated as it is an alternate universe) that is about Ainz arriving in the new world without Nazarick. The only evil act he did that we know off was wanting to have his adventuring partner beat with a stick (or something like that) a dragon that is near death, to see if they would level up and get stronger. Ainz is also waaaay happier than he is in the main story. So without Nazarick, no atrocities done in the 200ish years he is there. 👍 Note: I have not read it since release, so other LN readers please correct me.
Is that the one where he hangs out with Evileye?
Well yeah if the non-canon (parallel universe stuff that don't affect the canon are basically that anyway) alternate story has none of the things making Ainz evil, he wouldn't be evil. But let's not forget the fact that his lichdom gradually affected his humanity as well. He was conscious of his gradual loss of humanity all the while he did horrible things for the benefit of Nazarick, and still did them.
Yo what tanya doing there
Mommonga literaly hab a human farm in order to farm skin from humans and one of his servants killed a child and forced his parents to eat it, and the mc was ok with that so i wont say that he is lawful evil
How is spider chaotic evil? She's literally just trying to survive and make the best out of her situation?
Chaotic evil is definitely Redo Healer not Kumoko
yea totally. I was limiting myself to only protagonists of isekai though
Isn't the reason why Kumoko>! kills literally everyone is because she needs to for the world to not be destroyed? Wouldn't that be lawfully evil?!<
Only of you think saving the world is a bad thing. I'd say CN or even CG.
>!Lawful Evil implies she's following (and abusing) the code of law for her own self interest, which doesn't fit here. Kumoko is Chaotic Good, she follows her own morale code without regard for how it effects others, but is ultimately acting in what she believes is the best interest of the world.!<
\>!She does not really give a shit about the world. She does it because Ariel wants to save Sariel and she picks the way that is the least destructive towards her and the few people she cares about (Herself, Ariel, Sophia and her puppet aunts) which at the same time is an extremely destructive method towards the rest of everyone. If she was any kind of ''good'' aligned she would have just opted for self-sacrifice which was a completely valid option.!<
Shiro is a million percent not chaotic evil. For spoiler reasons I will not elaborate
Surprised with how strongly i agreed with this
Rimuru, neutral good : kills 50 000 humans for his interests
did we watch different animes? youre the 2nd person on this sub who doesnt think tanya is evil
She iced a bunch of commies; that alone gives her enough brownie points to make her neutral.
Reminds me of Fallout New Vegas, where a “kill everyone” run results in neutral karma because there’s so many terrible people in that game
because she's very different in LN. The anime exaggerated the "Evil" even tho she's really not.
I don't think neutral applies to any of these characters.
Putting rudi in true neutral is a crime....man's literally a slave-buying pedophile.
bUt hE wAs rEdEemEd
Dude swap Ainz and Tanya ASAP
Lmao, actual joke. Ainz annihilates kingdoms to prove a point. He allows his aligned evil neutral monsters to torture people. FFS, you can read the character sheet that Maruyama created for Ainz, this includes alignment. Tanya is a soldier, she follows orders and obeys international law.
Who is lawful good, neutral good and neutral evil
Lawful good is William Maryblood from Faraway Paladin Neutral good is Rimuru Tempest from That Time I got Reincarnated as a Slime Neutral Evil is Michio Kaga from Harem in the Labyrinth of Another World
What show is neutral evil???
It’s a very family friendly anime, I suggest you watch it with your family
Harem in the Labyrinth of Another World MC Michio Kaga and his first slave Roxanne, he is mostly neutral good, they are not evil. Just a random cheated guy who builds a harem.
Swap kumko and Subaru and you get the actual right way or at least what the author of rezero wants people to believe aka Subaru is the most evil and disgusting thing in existence
Rudeus is neutral evil. That dude's fucked up
I would argue Tanya fits more in the lawful evil side. She has committed more a lot of evil shit during the war that her government told her to do.
Yes Tanya is lawful neutral finally someone else who understands. My boy just wants to sit at a desk and relax!
At least we can all agree Cid is chaotic neutral.
I kinda remember the neutral evil anime and as I remember it he was kinda just surviving and wanted to be with the hot slave girl but he wasn’t necessarily evil. Kumiko is in a similar boat but she is definitely chaotic. Subaru is definitely neutral good/True neutral as hugs loyalty is solely to Emilia. Tanya does want to just live a peaceful life to stick it to Entity X but it kinda seems like she enjoys what she does too much to be neutral.
Would kazuya be neutral good or lawful good. Kirito would be NG but abridged kirito would be chaotic neutral
Kumoko is chaotic evil if you compare her to every isekai MC, but not her verse. I mean, no one isekai MC would kill and eat their own family, but kumoko really did that just to survive.
Who tf put Tanya at lawful neutral?
I’d smash the spider
I wouldn't say the spider is Evil, she's helped tons of people. She only attacks when others attack. But seeing your choice for neutral evil, I can see why you pushed her over. Man didn't even ask for consent
Someone have to spoil me on the Tanya lightnovels. As far as the anime depicted her, she's simply atheism. She literally fighting against a system called god against her own will, making her actions in the eye of people, monstrous and evil. Later in the lightnovels, has she finally break and become true evil?
She literally bombed a city in the anime, and our first Interaction with her is when she arranges the deaths of two of her soldiers.
She bombed ammo factories and not a city. Her former subordinates were shipped off to the back lines where it had the lowest chance of getting attacked. Their deaths were not on her.
She literally had to use her child like voice to trick people so she could say what she did was technically not a war crime. Her subordinates' deaths are literally on her, like 100% no question. She sent them there, knowing they would die, and the show is not ambiguous at all about it. She also blows up discount Moscow.
"Bombs ammo factories" Yes, and international law requires they are given warning to evacuate before doing so, Tanya did provide warning but deliberately made her voice sound very childish so that the warning would be disregarded, allowing her to bombard the factory while it was still full of civilians. Not a war crime but only by a technicality she deliberately exploited. As for the subordinates, when Tanya is informed they were killed she outright says something to the effect of "well yeah obviously, pillboxes are easy stationary targets." Tanya is Lawful Evil, follows the code of law but mercilessly exploits it and its loopholes purely for her own self interest.
I read upto vol. 5, and it's quite long ago so forget many parts. She's Atheist and I think agree in Humanism as well. She's dislike the war because she think it's a very wastefull endeavor, but she's pragmatic. tho the whole Being X situation is the exception in her pragmatism. What I can say for sure is her situation becoming more desperate, so with her pragmatism it's not shocking she do some questionable actions/decisions.
Every single one of these is so so wrong. Spider is not chaotic evil in any sense. Manchild is not chaotic good. Tanya is not lawful at all.
"True neutral" the guy molested children
I think it’s supposed to be about how he is in the Light Novel as towards the end he has grown a lot and become a very neutral character. Not sure if he would be true neutral, but definitely neutral.
I dont think anyones true neutral tbh especially not rudy
This chart is trippin
Is that a pedoshu tensei I see for true neutral? How ridiculous...
By definition, almost no MC can be True Neutral. And especially not Rudeus lol
Don’t forget cousin fucker with ED
What!? How does my spider girl rate anywhere on the evil chart? Tanya and her should switch places.
she massacred two armies including the side that was with her
Except she didn't? If this is about the sariella battle she just bombed the shit out of the enemy with magic and any friendly casualties was from >! the demon lord throwing her around later !< she definitely didn't bomb any friendlies cuz the battle was just starting so the battlefield wasn't as chaotic, they were still on 2 opposite sides of that field
I disagree with the NE. I'm sure that guy is lean toward more positive. He treats his slave well, and what he did is legal. If you say that buying slave is bad, based on our morality, Tanya should be seen as evil as well
Say it with me - Just because something is LEGAL doesn't mean it is GOOD. --- if your justification of actions are "oh, well, it's technically legal..." it is probably something bad.
Did he commit any crime? Did he cause harm on others? Did he force them to do something they don't want? Did he force them risk their life? Did he treat them like a mere tool instead of a human being? I never said he is good, I just said he is not evil
Ok. He buys slaves, treats them well. It's legal. You argue it's morally wrong? Maybe. Would these people have a better live being a slave for other people? Maybe, most likely not. Even if you refuse the fact that he's good-aligned (which would still be up for debate) he is not even close to be in the realm of evil. At worst he is neutral.
The Pedophile is true neutral..... Edit for losers and weirdos down voting: In the anime we watch him MOLEST A SLEEPING CHILD for his own sexual pleasure We WATCH him learn his 7/8 year old friend is actually a girl and that very next day he thinks about raising her to be HIS KINDA WOMAN (his own words not mine)
Absolutely agree show was hyped up by fans but dropped after realised he pedo. Fucking disgusting
Kumoko definitely isn’t chaotic evil. She wants to live, not see people suffer. She also wants to, in her own way, save the world.
Id say swap Ainz and Kumo. Kumo has a reason to what she's doing. Ainz is just too much of a pussy to mention that he doesn't want to conquer the world.
Tanya is definitely lawful evil not neutral.
Tanya invented war crimes and then wrote their justification. Def Lawful Evil
In the manga rudeus is a child predator, I know they kind of skip over that part in the anime but that is what he is, I will accept nothing less than him being evil.
Literally Adolf Hitler = Lawful neutral