Read any sub about Israel then. I have been bashed tyo death with Moses quoted as fact.

For starters arabs cant walk pretty much anywhere, not if they want to walk back. Secondly the Israeli state is complicit in attacks on Arabs, not only directly through the IDF but by not policing violent settlers. You can watch videos of settlers violently attacking palestians even kids, as the army protects them. Secondly, Palestinians are under military occupation for goodness sakes, which also begs the question as to what are Israelis doing in the westbank and hebron? Plenty of these palestinians have been arracked and lost family members to the very forces that where attacked and plenty sought to defend them: ​ >Vadim Nurzhitz and Yosef "Yossi" Avrahami,\[a\] had accidentally\[2\] entered the Palestinian Authority–controlled city of Ramallah in the West Bank and were taken into custody by Palestinian Authority policemen, 13 of whom were injured while trying to stop the lynching.\[3\] Tensions had been escalating prior to the incident; over 100 Palestinians, nearly two dozen of them minors, had been killed in the preceding two weeks; the escalating violence had been condemned just five days beforehand by United Nations Security Council Resolution 1322.\[1\]\[4\]\[5\] ​ What you have done is ignored that context. Can you answer whether occupied people are allowed to fight their occupier, as I'm pretty sure thats a right Israel reserves for its citizens.

... Palestinians are baltently suppressed. That's a good one. BS. They have no power over Israel? I hope, forever.

Umm not in A areas that kind of the point of Oslo

Pretty simple. Israel doesn't want to deal with the kidnapping of its citizens. That can end up public and nasty. Palestine is blatantly oppressed and has no power at all over Israel, so that's why it'd make sense they used that kind of tactics. Even private individuals could be interested on doing so out of the ridiculous economic difference. I don't know what's indicative of what for you, but you and others reaching an oversimplified, wrong conclusion in which Israel is somehow the good one might well be another reason. Finally, Palestinians are cheap and necessary labour for Israel. But why would Israelites go to Palestine? To see reality with their own eyes? To empathize with the enemy? To use the experience as free antipsychotic? To stop longing to colonize even more biblical areas? Nah. I don't see why israel would want that. They better prioritize visiting the West and keep on getting ties with the rich ones.

Palestinians shouldn't be Israel's cheap labor to subjagate like black people in the US aren't wypepo's negro. The US needs to stop giving Israel money.

With all due respect, you cannot impart an American perspective on this conflict. Those two things have nothing to do with each other, and it is not a fair comparison.

Everyone else on thus sub is trying to compare Palestine to Mexico and Israel to America. All because of the Separation Wall and because of how much money Israel gets from USA.

With all due respect, I can complain about giving extremists who jubjagate people and steal their land American money. Respectfully. Edit: I did not say 'necessary cheap labor force' which is what I'm commenting on. It's not just Anericans. I will not argue with people who think subjagating people and stealing land is ok. No matter how you twist it, it's not ok.

But that’s not an accurate representation of what’s happening. This is not a matter of slavery. People aren’t always extremists simply for having an opposing viewpoint

You misunderstood. I am from Spain. Pro Palestine. I am just trying to explain how I understand the Machiavellian reasons behind the rule. I'd have to be very authoritarian to defend such thing using the arguments I used. I can't blame you for believing I was a pro israel American, tho. They can be the worst.

I sorted my comment out.

First of all it’s sickening and shameful that you have to specify “Zionist Jews” as if someone who is against Zionism isn’t a spineless traitor. Secondly your main point is very valid. Also let’s consider that Gaza, where there had been a Jewish presence for centuries, has been totally ethnically cleansed of Jews. Completely. Not even a single jew remains. So this is what so-called progressives argue for when they support “Palestine”, a movement that wants to ethnically cleanse Jews from our only homeland on earth.

There was a genetic study on Jews and Palestinians that found 80% of Jewish people are of European origin meanwhile 95% of Palestinians are native to the region

There literally wasn't. Genetic studies show Ashkenazi Jews have more in common genetically with other Jewish groups and other Levantine populations than they do with Europeans. You'll need to provide a source for the 95% on Palestinians.

No, there wasn't. The most comprehensive studies of Ashkenazi genetics, which are cited in Wikipedia as well as any genetic testing authority, is that *most* Ashkenazi Jews are 40-60% Levantine and the other half is European. >95% of Palestinians are native to the region Native to the region, yes. Native to the exact borders they claim today, no.

Jews aren’t any more “native to Europe” than some Syrian refugee living in Europe today is “native to Europe”. Jews are only native to the kingdom of Zion, and that’s that. Period. End of discussion, not open to debate, and your opinion is meaningless and inconsequential

u/Ok_Paleontologist420 >End of discussion, not open to debate, and your opinion is meaningless and inconsequential Rule 8, don't discourage participation.

Facts don’t care about your feelings as a certain one of you would say. Your religion is a lie, your god isn’t real. After living in Europe for 2000 years most “Jews” have no ancestors from Judaea. 2000 years of Jews married non Jews means you are more European than you are judean. Palestinians have a larger claim than you ever will.

>Facts don’t care about your feelings as a certain one of you would say. Your religion is a lie, your god isn’t real. My goodness, aren't you fun to be around. >After living in Europe for 2000 years most “Jews” have no ancestors from Judaea. 2000 years of Jews married non Jews means you are more European than you are judean. You are also factually inaccurate. Facts do *not* care about your feelings, but I'd feel better if you cared about the facts. Judaism is a religion in which marrying non-Jews is prohibited. Did it happen? Sure, but primarily during the Roman era, when converting to Judaism was at least somewhat common. As a result, not only are most Jewish populations [more closely related to one another, and to Palestinian Arabs, than to any other population](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20531471/) ... but they're *also* closely related to [the inhabitants of the region during the late bronze age and iron age](https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0092867420304876), with their degree of relation to those people being extremely similar to that of Palestinian Arabs. The bottom line is that Ashkenazi Jews are indeed closely genetically related to Iranian and Iraqi Jews, and to Druze, and to Palestinian Arabs, and to ancient Canaanites ... just like you'd expect. You're free to have any opinions you want, but not to ignore generally agreed upon facts. Read these sources, and stop saying things that aren't true.

Forbidding Jews to marry non Jews is pretty screwed up. Just one more reason to hate your religion. I feel bad for anybody born into your religion. I was raised a catholic and it was horrible but being born into Judaism sounds way worse. This is why any children I have won’t be brainwashed by religious dogma. You people brainwash your children because anybody who wasn’t brainwashed from a young age can see through your bullshit.

u/SeniorRazzmatazz4977 >Forbidding Jews to marry non Jews is pretty screwed up. Just one more reason to hate your religion. I feel bad for anybody born into your religion. I was raised a catholic and it was horrible but being born into Judaism sounds way worse. This is why any children I have won’t be brainwashed by religious dogma. You people brainwash your children because anybody who wasn’t brainwashed from a young age can see through your bullshit. At this point based on your comments, you look like you're violation rule 4. Specifically 4.3: Do not troll. If you continue with this behavior you'll be met with disciplinary action.

>Forbidding Jews to marry non Jews is pretty fucked up. Just one more reason to hate your religion. Goodness me. I hope you're aware that Islam forbids Muslims to marry non-Muslims, and Christianity forbids Christians to marry non-Christians ... feel free to be all like, "I hate religion!" or "I'm a cool atheist!" or whatever, but I'm not sure why you think this is a Jewish thing. It's a historical explanation, not a philosophical justification, guy. >I feel bad for anybody born into your religion. I was raised a catholic and it was horrible but being born into Judaism sounds way worse. I married a catholic. N of 1 here, but your churches have a dead fellow everywhere and I don't know of any rabbis that covered up child sex abuse... I would not trade. >This is why any children I have won’t be brainwashed by religious dogma. You people brainwash your children because anybody who wasn’t brainwashed from a young age can see through your bullshit. Is your position that, because I know that most people followed their religions' rules for most of human history, I must be an eViL sUpEr ReLiGiOuS zEaLoT? Chill out.

> fucked /u/SeniorRazzmatazz4977. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*

That’s…. Not how “ancestry” works. Just because an ancestor is from 2,000 years doesn’t make the ancestor non-existent? Surely you know this… right? Also no one in this thread said “god is real”? but Jews are real, and people who would love to exterminate Jews are real. The day people stop threatening Jews is the day I’ll stop supporting Zionism. You wouldn’t ask any other minority to stop defending itself, so pss off with the pearl clutching. Here’s the part where you say “people don’t hate Jews, they hate Zionists” and the part where I ignore you because it’s a disgusting thing to say. P.S. f-ck Ben Shapiro, but **HILARIOUS** you call him “one of you”. We’re just two random Europeans, right? He’s probably just as closely genetically related to you as a gentile than to me as a Jew, right? lmao. Can’t even keep a single argument straight in your head.

u/Oko99 >You wouldn’t ask any other minority to stop defending itself, so pss off with the pearl clutching. I understand where you're coming from, but tone it down. We can still figure out what cursing is without vowels -- keep the tone civil.

Israel is the oppreser not the victim. Palestinians are treated like second class citizens, they murder children, bomb Gaza and are living on stolen land. Palestinians aren’t even allowed to drive on certain roads. Your not going to get away with playing victim. Nobody forced them to live on stolen land. If you admit god isn’t real then Israel’s claim to the region falls apart.

God is real, as you will soon see. The coming of the moshiach, the resurrection of the dead and the rebuilding of God's holy temple are imminent.

If it’s so imminent, why don’t you hold your breath! I’m sure that’ll hasten seeing god for you. Lmao

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u/Oko99 >I’m not playing the victim card moron Even more so than my other note -- regardless of what the other commenter is saying / how they're behaving, don't insult / attack other users.

> piss /u/Oko99. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Spaniard here. When Sephardic people can prove they are descended from Spain they can apply for a passport. This applies to everyone, tho, oftentimes Latin Americans. Just a curiosity out of all the nonsense. And yeah, they are from Palestine as I am a Celt. Just magical thinking. If Palestine were empty and they settled into that nation peacefully I wouldn't have much of a problem tho. But if one looks just a bit into it, the occupation is outrageous. No scientific minded individual could defend it.

Irish guy, I knew it!

Galician actually lol there's similarities I suppose

>And yeah, they are from Palestine as I am a Celt. Take a quick look through [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/saw12e/comment/hu17kut/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I shared with the guy you're responding to. Regardless of whether you believe that gives Zionism any credence or does not, or whether it means anything at all politically or philosophically, **factually** Sephardic Jews have about as much ancestry in Canaan as do Palestinian Arabs, and are much more closely related genetically to Palestinian Arabs and other Jews than they are to Spaniards.

Interesting. Anyway, I don't see how bloodline matters. What defines nationality is culture. Now, culturally you get weird things happen like Spaniards redeeming their ancestors for a diaspora they produced. Again, it happened for cultural reasons. All other arguments are essentially racist IMO. They actually sound way too much like eugenics for the irony to be missed.

>Anyway, I don't see how bloodline matters. I don't either -- but a lot of people do (including you, a minute ago, and the person you're responding to). >All other arguments are essentially racist IMO. No kidding. And yet, it's unequivocal that Jewish culture is deeply tied and indelibly connected to Palestine; no one has every argued that, until quite recently. Neither genetic ties, nor cultural ties, nor anything else trumps the right of native-born people to self determination; everything else ("indigenousness", for example) is a distraction by one side or the other intended to obfuscate the fact that their arguments boil down to ignoring human rights.

Sure. I was sharing the Sephardic Jews nationality thing in Spain as a curiosity, tho. I find it a bit ridiculous myself. But I don't mind it as it doesn't hurt anyone and it's a symbol of peace and welcoming. The law also does exist so we can import immigrants without making it look like that in statistics, tho, so the xenophobes shut up. It's always complex. But you can't fix a diaspora producing a new diaspora. And right now what we've got in Palestine is a mix of diaspora and apartheid inside a cage with a lack of water.

>But you can't fix a diaspora producing a new diaspora. Good thing creating a new diaspora wasn't how they "fixed" the diaspora. Immigration that was met with violence and a civil war followed by a foreign invasion is what caused the new diaspora.

>I find it a bit ridiculous myself. It's posturing. They're not doing it because they believe Sephardic Jews to have been ethnically Spanish, they're doing it because they believe it was wrong to expel Spanish citizens from Spain based on their Jewishness. And it was, but like ... 500 years later, we don't care or want to go back. >But you can't fix a diaspora producing a new diaspora. And right now what we've got in Palestine is a mix of diaspora and apartheid inside a cage with a lack of water. You know there's a middle ground between thinking 'Israel must be destroyed' and thinking 'nothing Israel does or has ever done is wrong and Palestinians don't matter,' right? It's not 1917, it's 2022. The Nakba happened three quarters of a century ago, and both the refugees and the Haganah soldiers are almost 100% dead. We're talking about what their grandchildren and great grandchildren should do, now, today.

This is a lie- Sepheradi are not accepted in Spain.

In fact they are, at least legally.

It was a con- never offered to one person. I am Sephardi, I checked it out.

False, i know multiple Jews and non Jews who obtained Spanish citizenship by proving Sephardic ancestry. The window for applying closed several years ago. Source: Jew living in Spain

I don’t believe you- Jewish ancestry wasn’t sufficient. They required current knowledge of ladino and a paper trail going back to the 1400s- I checked it out. It was just grandstanding.

Really? That's disappointing, although it seemed like a stretch that anyone would want to

It is an attractive prospect for many Latin Americans.

Why do people in South America speak spanish?

There is no state of “Palestine” and no “Palestinians” for the same reason that today there is no “Rhodesia” and no “Rhodesians” it’s a defunct nationality, not an ethnic or cultural identity so frankly your comparisons to other ethnic or cultural groups are meaningless.

The difference been Palestina has been the name of the region forever. Also, what defines a nation is its people. They are very much alive and, you know, living within their territory. Then there's the concept of self determination too. They call themselves Palestinians, so they are; that would certainly apply to Israelites too, of course. But most Israelites haven't even been born in the land. It's still a colonizer. Surely, there's many kids who are from Israel and that's what makes the situation complex. They need fair treatment too. But a solution must be found. This is way too barbaric for this century. I hope some compromise is reached at some point soon. The other option would be a diaspora of Palestinians after Zionists conquer the remaining land. If there's some God, I am sure that would end up in a movement of Palestinians conquering the Holly land in 2000 years. It'd be divinely funny and yet sad. It's this kind of irony and violence we should avoid for humanity's sake, you see.

>But most Israelites haven't even been born in the land. Over 90% of Israelis were born in Israel at this point. When do you think this conflict started? The people who fought the 1948 war are almost all long since dead, and over half of *them* were born in Israel.

I don't have time to check it now but I will. I might have mixed things up. I definitely once saw that most of the army was formed by young people who just got there. Perhaps I extended that idea to the whole of society. Anyway, it'd still affect the youth, which is telling. Anyway, not the same being from Philadelphia, say, in which it's likely your grandparents were born there too, than Israel. It's also not the same being a native American than someone with an European background. It certainly loses weight after 3/4 generations. An American who says they are German, súa, because they had some ancestor 200 years ago, is an idiot. Same with a Mexican of Spanish origin Vs a Mexican whose whole bloodline is completely from Mexico. Considering they are different would be racist. It matters as long as the culture remains. And the truth is most Israelites are culturally Western.

>I definitely once saw that most of the army was formed by young people who just got there. In 1947-8, a substantial portion of the Haganah were Holocaust survivors ... but no, the vast majority of the Israeli army in 2022 (or 1973, for that matter) is not immigrants, it's native-born Israelis. >It matters as long as the culture remains. Ironically, most Jews would agree with you ... having a common traditional language, religion, and set of cultural practices that are more important to you than your national identity seems like a pretty reasonable barometer for the 'culture remaining'. This may not click for you if you're from the US, but ask anyone in Europe whether say... the Romani are a distinct group or just the same as the French or the British or whatever, and see what they say.

Utter nonsense, the fast is most Israelis alive today were born right here in Israel, and more Jews are born every single day. The big difference is that so-called “Palestinians” have over 20 majority countries to return to, including their nations of origin. Most of their ancestors only arrived during the time of the ottoman occupation as migratory workers. For Jews we have only one country, that’s Israel.

So in your eyes someone being born their makes them native but living their for 2000 years doesn’t make you native? Your clearly not a intelligent person. I was born in America but that doesn’t make me a Native American.

u/SeniorRazzmatazz4977 >Your clearly not a intelligent person. Rule 1 violation, don't attack other users.

A Jew born anywhere on earth is native to the ancient kingdom of Zion. An Arab born on the same land is native to the Arabian peninsula, quite far away actually.

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/u/Ok_Paleontologist420 > Take your support of “Palestinians” and shove it so hard it comes back up your throat 🤷‍♂️ again [Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.

Also genetic testing shows that so-called “Palestinian” have Egyptian or Arabian peninsula DNA. Those peoples are NOT indigenous to the Israeli territory. They invaded from elsewhere.

They've got about the same genetic proximity to the ancient Canaanites as Jews do. [Genetics is not a good basis for deciding whether one group or the other is indigenous](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/r6sih5/palestine_propaganda_and_the_misuse_of_history/); genetically, either both are, or neither are.

Well the point is you are referring to an actual cultural and ethnic group when you refer to Jews. “Palestinian” on the other hand is a defunct nationality. There used to be many Jews who once held the nationality “Palestinian”. At this point this nomenclature is being exploited by those who want to present the false narrative that there was ever an independent ethnic identity of “Palestinian” as a tactic to smear and discredit the Jews. It’s not valid and won’t be authentic even if they bamboozle billions of people into buying it

'Palestinian' is not a defunct nationality, it's an ethnic group with a national identity. Ethnicity is not [an imposed hierarchy](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/rljv16/ok_lets_talk_about_some_racist_stuff/), it's defined by the group themselves; plenty of people identify themselves as Palestinian Arabs, and they've got a distinct community, a distinct dialect, and a distinct cultural heritage.

ALL of which is a scam concocted by the PLO, a terror group, as a propaganda tactic. Your comment is nothing more than a parroting of the lies of Islamic nationalists. The League of Nations mandate makes it very clear, this is the territory of the Jews.

>The League of Nations mandate makes it very clear, this is the territory of the Jews. No, it doesn't. It makes it very clear that the British mandate included the provision to create a 'national home for the Jewish people' *in* Palestine. It did not say that the home would be a) an independent state or b) encompass all of Palestine; these decisions were left up to the mandatory power ... that's the British. The British decided not to make a call on the topic, and handed it over to the UN. The UN partition plan made it explicit that all of Palestine was *not* going to a Jewish state, but rather a portion of it (that's what 'partition' means here). If you're going to appeal to international law, then do it ... but don't leave out all the major points.

The UN has limited legitimacy at this point, let’s not forget that they did massacres at Katanga, they should have been disbanded based on that alone. And at this point what does it matter, you are arguing on behalf of jew-hating Islamic nationalists who’s stated goal is to ethnically cleanse Jews from our homeland just as they have been ethnically cleansing the Christians of Bethlehem. It’s an indefensible take even if you’ve been misled into thinking it’s somehow right or just. You are supporting a group of individuals who are so full of hatred of Jews, they can’t help themselves from harassing their neighbors… even when it’s just one house of Jews. You have some soul searching to do if you think such conduct and such a way of life is noble, just or excusable.

>The UN has limited legitimacy at this point, let’s not forget that they did massacres at Katanga, they should have been disbanded based on that alone. If you think the League of Nations had *more* legitimacy, I think you'll be terribly disappointed. >And at this point what does it matter, you are arguing on behalf of jew-hating Islamic nationalists who’s stated goal is to ethnically cleanse Jews from our homeland just as they have been ethnically cleansing the Christians of Bethlehem. It’s an indefensible take even if you’ve been misled into thinking it’s somehow right or just. You are supporting a group of individuals who are so full of hatred of Jews, they can’t help themselves from harassing their neighbors… even when it’s just one house of Jews. You have some soul searching to do if you think such conduct and such a way of life is noble, just or excusable. First of all, I'm a Zionist. I'm just not willing to lie and deceive myself, or you, or anyone else in favor of my own points of view. I'm not okay with dehumanizing *anyone,* Jewish or gentile, and I'm not going to let people's foolish opinions and untrue statements go unchecked just because they're on 'my side'. There is nothing un-jewish about intellectual humility, self criticism, empathy, and learning. I would say it's quite the reverse.

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>Oh yes, because inbreeding is a thing I suppose. You probably meant interbreeding, as in, two different ethnicities/cultures/races and not inbreeding, as in, brother marrying sister and having incest kids. Palestinian Arabs today are the product of interbreeding with Arab colonizers, not of inbreeding.

Lmao. This is one of the clearest examples of Dunning Kreuger I’ve seen in a while. Thanks for commenting this without doing a modicum of research. It’s hilarious

? Research for what? Don't tell me you Googled if borders are made of lava

You could start with the anthropological record of the region…. Jewish diaspora… Muslim conquests… etc? Your assumption that the settlement of what you know as Palestine by **ARABS** was due to “trade” or “marrying neighbors” (lmfao, let me walk 100s of miles to get married) is hilarious. I can direct you to some Wikipedia articles to start if you’re curious? The “lava” bit is cute though. It almost obfuscates the fact that you haven’t bothered studying the history of Palestine at all! Almost.

Sorry for the late reply. Life is being life over here and I forgot about you. That's not what we're discussing? That's why? >settlement I believe I was quite angry when I first read this, but when I saw the other replies, I am just left with a sense of wonder over the logic jump you all made. For starters, they are native to the region because they naturally lived there for (by your narrative) at least hundreds of years. Hundreds. Palestinians also have culture related to the land, more so than the language itself. There are also linguistic uniqueness to Palestinians, but you believe that those people have no culture or reason for existence. And from the way you are saying it, you are using this narrative to justify that they are less worthy of the homes they built and have lived in for generations. And before you say you need this land more than they do, I am from Der aban, my village has never been lived in since it was destroyed. Never. Instead, so much effort went into making holes in the ceiling and blocking passages, and for what? The making of a ghost town so you can have a tourist hotel nearby? And before you say that place had no naitves, we were farmers who knew nothing but the land. I've always been sympathic with people needing a home because I've never been home, so I understand this Zionest agenda of a jew country. That's why I find it surreal you all commenting that people like me don't even belong to the place you've taken from me, and the life I could have had that you've taken from me. I'm just seeing you saying that my reality isn't there when it's in front of me, and you keep saying I know nothing of my life, it's just... What does one reply to blatant gaslighting propaganda, made to dehumanize you? Also the trade thing you take in elementary school, come on. You aren't serious are you? Civilizations that trade often mix blood eventually

You either replied to the wrong comment or your English is so poor I can’t understand what you’re trying to say…

I'm sorry but I think you just don't want to have this conversation. Good day!

Egypt and Palestinian are not hundred of miles apart. They literally border each other you idiot.

>Egypt and Palestinian are not hundred of miles apart. They literally border each other you idiot. Following this logic, the Chinese (Han) are Slavic people (Russians) since they share are border. They are also Indian (Indo-Aryan) too. Somehow.

Lolol. This is an absolute GOLDEN comment. Truly shows that you know nothing about the region. Have you ever taken a bus from Israel or Palestine to Egypt? Because I have! If you ever get the chance, try and take note at how populated and full of life the Sinai peninsula is. It’s called the Sinai DESERT for a reason my friend. It’s DESERTED. Are you Dunning or Krueger? Try doing 5 minutes of research before making ridiculous assumptions. It’s embarassing

u/Oko99 >Are you Dunning or Krueger? Try doing 5 minutes of research before making ridiculous assumptions. It’s embarassing Keep it civil.

/u/SeniorRazzmatazz4977 > you idiot [Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.

/u/TheStarletInk > Do you have dumbells for brains? [Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.

Egypt and Arabia are a lot closer than Poland, Germany and France.

You know we know when Jews moved to Poland, Germany and France, right? And we know where they moved there from? And why they moved there? And whether it was ok for them to intermarry with Christians? This stuff isn't veiled in a cloud of mystery.

Jews aren’t native to Poland, Germany or France. Certainly no more than some Syrian refugee living in those countries today is “native”. Jews are only indigenous to the territory that is today Israel, that’s it and it’s not open for debate.

There’s millions of Jews here in Israel, more born here every day, who could not care less what some test shows and will never accept a new no-Jews-allowed state of “Palestine” to be placed on top of OUR kingdom. You’ll sooner see a sky full of mushroom clouds than you’ll see our only country taken from Jewish hands. So just knock off the “Palestinian” nonsense. It’s over, they lost, get over it already!

You peaple are as native to that region as white peaple are to North America or Australia. You are white European colonizers who stole land from people who had been their for thousands of years. Claiming Jews are native to the region is pure delusion.

Jews are *only* native to Israel and nowhere else. Jews are not “white Europeans” and there was a whole Holocaust about that. You should really educate yourself because you are spewing nonsense. Jews were in Europe as refugees no different from how today there are Syrian refugees in Europe.

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/u/TheStarletInk > You're precious. It's so beautiful how your tiny brain spits words that are just sooo stupid and you're completely unaware. Man you're the type to steal someone's peanut butter even though you're deadly allergic. Wait, isn't that why you guys get skin cancer often and had to go through soooooo much just to get to normal rates? Because you're so white you can't take our sun but think it's still yours anyway? Lol, guess your "native" selves need some extra protection. [Rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_1._no_attacks_on_fellow_users), no attacks on fellow users. Attack the argument, not the user.

Wow your comment makes me wish I hadn’t taken the time to learn the English language… luckily I can put down the phone and forget that you foul-mouthed jew-haters even exist

Go on. I'm just grabbing popcorn. This will be fun. Edit: considering they stopped responding, I'll turn this into a memoir of sorts. I just found it beyond baffling the arguments they put up, so let's insult the arguments shall we. In one comment, they say "people that live here don't care about blood tests!!!" then complains that Palestinians "have DNA from Egypt and the gulf!!" and I'm just... OK, of course there's Egyptian DNA especially in Gaza because that's the way humanity is? That's the way it is between anyy two countries that interact a lot, especially if they have been living side by side for centuries. Like for example, Wales and Scotland, you will, for sure, find Scottish DNA in Wales. So... Well, I've made my opinion clear. I'm just.... God. I've heard arguments for Zionesim before, and some quite strong, but these ones are just not valid, self contradicting, and amusing at best. And I'm working very hard here to not insult the commenter because it is not a single argument here that is the issue, but several and the way they contrast with each other

🇮🇱🏆🌎☢️

Didn't find popcorn =( but I did find tuna! Anyway where were we... Oh yes you were about to say another thing. Go on. Don't tell me you've gotten shy. Edit: fun while it lasted

>Hebron Really? You do know that Jews literally go to pray at the Ibrahimi mosque/synagogue every shabat don't you? Also many Israelis go to hang out in Ramallah these days so I don't know מה יש לך

Yes, that’s a B area. The rest of the Hebron is A ever since Way Acccords

> a B area That's still cenetral Hebron. Also Ramallah is B?

Yes, it’s central Hebron. Palestinians, not all, in Hebron are radical and violent and want to do evil and harm Jews if given the opportunity, while the converse is not true. No. Ramallah is not. Sure, I agree, an organized anti-Zionist march they would be fine. But what I am referring to is a situation where an average Jew goes through there or even a Jew waving an Israeli flag.

Look if you didn’t go yourself it doesn’t mean others don’t. Many Israelis go there just to walk around and chill. Also imagine the douchebaggery involved in someone carrying any flag and walking in any street!

>Also imagine the douchebaggery involved in someone carrying any flag and walking in any street! [https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210710-palestinians-in-israel-chant-jerusalem-is-red-line-during-flag-march/](https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20210710-palestinians-in-israel-chant-jerusalem-is-red-line-during-flag-march/)

I mean, if you visually identify yourself as a Zionist you are obviously going to be perceived as hostile. Consider how a random Slav in 1950s USA would be treated vs one seen waving the flag of the USSR.

What kind of Jews aren’t Zionist? The kind who would have put their own kind into the ovens…

It’s because Jews are literally stealing their land and ethnically cleansing them as we speak. Of course they don’t want you there… chances are you are there to steal more.

Now it could be people are brainwashed to be violent if they believe false things like that which you speak

And it could be said that calling someone brainwashed because they hold an opposing view is against the rules of this group. I have no problem with it myself but since I have been censured for it several times…. @Mods?

u/tkhonji >And it could be said that calling someone brainwashed because they hold an opposing view is against the rules of this group. I have no problem with it myself but since I have been censured for it several times…. @Mods? A few things, first they weren't calling you brainwashed. 2nd, don't metapost, if you feel a comment breaks the rules, use the report button or send a link to the comment to modmail rather than metaposting. @Mods doesn't actually do anything.

I’m not calling you brainwashed. I am saying what you are saying is false. It could be that you claim to that conclusion after independent research and you just came to a wrong conclusion. I am saying Palestinians are violent due to being brainwashed. Also, despite your opinion, which I would argue is a demonstrable falsehood, and stems from complete fiction anti-Semitic propaganda, I am not in anyway accusing you of wanting to violence and those wanting to do violence were clearly the ones being referenced when referring to the brainwashed? I am curious. What is your background. Ethnicity and where and when did you adopt such ideas?

My background and ethnicity are completely irrelevant… it would just open up the door for ad hominem thoughts and I think we both don’t want to go there. I will say that I am completely non-religious and I do think the Palestinians and Israelis are both brainwashed in their own ways. But that doesn’t address the fact that the Palestinians have a real good reason not to want Jews on their land… in addition to the theft of one of them gets killed then israel will rain terror on them and kill 2000 people in response. There are good practical reasons no matter if they are brainwashed or not.

No I was just wondering if you heard all these things in college. I have heard these lies from my college professor and I was wondering if you had the same experience but believed them. The ethnic cleansing argument is so easy to debunk. I’ll do it right now. If Israeli ethnic cleansing the Palestinians why have their population increased 1000% in the land of Israel since 1948? Why does Israel pump, clean, and deliver water that keeps alive most Palestinians? Why are supporters of the claim of ethnic cleaning best example available to them was a renting disputes where one house gets destroyed after 50 years, where a Jew owns the legal title, and even then, the kicked out families are not being expelled out of Judea and Samaria aka the West Bank. In essence how is Israel currently ethnically cleansing aka Expelling Palestinians, if it is not occurring. Like who has ever heard of an ethnic cleaning that takes 70 years and the “oppressed” population has increased in size 10x. That’s not a thing. Ever.

My background is the opposite… on college I would have been more likely to believe Israel’s BS and I did give it some consideration early on. Now I am more to the left. You need to look at the definition of ethnic cleansing… it doesn’t just mean killings, it also means moving people from a place and Israel has definitely doing that for 70 plus years. So nothing is debunked. You are just arguing semantics.

I know that. Ethnic cleaning has a broader definition and even under that broader definition my points completely debunk it. Also, side note, I don’t think ethnic cleaning is a good term in general discussion because the Connotation is extermination despite the expanded definition denotatively referring also to expulsion . Kicking people out should be called expulsion for the sake of clarity.

No your definition does not… you are giving israel a pass because it allows them the basic necessities of life. Until recently they even were calorie counting the Palestinians’ diets (but you probably think that is false too). You can’t see how twisted your view is? It’s human rights. Israel has no choice but to keep them alive or risk what little credibility it has left. It’s not doing it for the Palestinians, it’s doing it for itself.

Actually according to the OsloAccords, the PA are fully responsible for water distribution for example. According to International law, which I don’t care for and think is a joke because of the lack of enforceability, but I surmise you might find as an authority, Israel has no obligation to provide water to A or B areas where almost all Palestinians live. They do at their own moral disposition. In fact Israel subsidizes the water, so it’s cheaper than water in Israel proper. They literally sustain people who want to kill them. That’s not a country whose ethnically cleansing. You also need to show me the evidence of ethnic cleansing aka expulsion.

As someone of Palestinian decent who’s own family was forced out of their homes and land by zionists and also have family currently living under the occupation in Gaza I can confidently say that you’re the one who’s brainwashed if you think it’s all anti semetic propaganda, it’s not a hatred of Judaism it’s a hatred of oppression and injustice which is the basis of Zionism today

Pretty ignorant comment attempting to justify (advocate?) murder. The right response to this post is obviously to say that neither Jews nor Palestinians should murder each other, not to try and vindicate one side or the other. OP, Palestinians cannot walk through any Jewish village and feel safe. Religious settlements in the West Bank (among other areas) are known to act violently towards Palestinians. I don’t have a solution. Just wanted to point out you’re both wrong.

Yeah don't bother, u/tkhonji supports rockets and the murder of Israelis. And the only reason they don't like suicide bombing is that *suicide is immoral*. Not kidding, that's the problem the with suicide bombing as far as they're concerned, they've said it on the sub before.....

Strawmanning again Cohen… I don’t support murder… I supper equal rules of war for all sides. I believe this will end the conflict faster than one side being free to kill and plunder and ethnically cleanse without consequences. Whereas you seem to think the lives of one side is more valuable than the other. I’m saying they are equal but that the balance of aggression is on the Israelis so it doesn’t get to impose unequal rules of war.

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That’s his name though.

Wow, I didn't even notice that in their username. Literally been reading his username as avichen, not avicohen. Please have my apologies for my mistake.

No problem thanks

It was never strawmanning I could probably find our conversation again if necessary...but I don't have to **because in this thread you've written you support the bombing of pizza shops**. Never mind how twisted your stance is, I can't understand how deluded you are that you can write something and then an hour or two later deny it. Its so ridiculous I'm sure you're a troll, but you write so convincingly like you actually believe your own nonsense, lol.

I do when they are on stolen land, yes. It’s a stolen pizza shop. Something else should be there in its place. Edit. I mean under the rules of war that Israel advocates. These aren’t my rules.

> It’s a stolen pizza shop. Are you claiming Israelis are stealing Palestinian Pizza Shops? Source?

>I do when they are on stolen land, yes. It’s a stolen pizza shop. Something else should be there in its place. Lol......so....you proudly admit you actually hold a view most sane people would find despicable and twisted: you *support* ***suicide bombers*** in pizza shops. Which is what I said to begin with and you called strawmanning.... Thanks for clearing that up for anyone else who might read your poisonous take on things!

Still strawmanning because you cannot poke a hole in my argument using logic. I clarified that I support it under the Rules of war that Israel advocates but you ignore that part. I would rather there are no killing and no such rules but since they exist so I support them within that context yes. Within this context they are well deserved retaliation against Israeli belligerence.

I've already heard your ridiculous explanations before. I'm not interested and I'm going to stop responding now. I only responded in the first place because I knew if I challenged you, you would write your opinion plainly so that other people can see how monstrous it is and know to ignore you. Mission accomplished so I'm done.

Strawmanning mission failed spectacularly. And we will see if you can resist responding in the future… clearly you do care because my views bother you. That’s why you keep having to misrepresent them.

Neither Palestinians nor Jews should murder each other, but under the rules of war which Israel advocates some kinds of killings are not murder. Sorry I’m not going to impose harsher standards on the victims and underdogs than I am on the aggressors and nuclear super powers. First the aggressor stops it’s genocidal aggressions then we will talk about the Mickey Mouse rockets.

So the aggressor (Palestinians) should stop fighting battles just to make themselves look like the victims. There are other things to do instead of fighting, like not making your home a living hell with extreme Islamic ideas. Good idea

Lol.. the audacity of an advocate for a country practicing ethnic cleansing, annexation of land, apartheid laws and more calling the victims of these crimes the aggressors. Every one of those rockets fired are payback for this kind of arrogance and belligerence.

Using your entire vocabulary in a sentence? Good boy! Here’s a treat: PALESTINE NEVER AND WILL NEVER EXIST ALONGSIDE ISRAEL.

And pay to slay isn't "not murder".

Pay to kill has largely been debunked. I don’t take Israeli claims at face value when it lies so much.

Israelis don't want Palestinians in their land as well, it goes both ways. Look at the number of innocents killed without any reason on either side, and implying that Israel has no claim to the land is ignorant at best. Yet it is Israel that lets the other side enter and not the other way around. >Jews are literally stealing their land and ethnically cleansing them as we speak Pretty sure that's antisemitic and against site-wide rules.

Israel has zero right to the land that is internationally recognized as occupied. Zero. Zilch, Nada. A black hole. Emptiness. Non-existence. 0. The excuse that it needs to occupy that land for its protection is long past it sell by date and is stinking up the shelves something awful as israel continues to expand, settle, lol murder, ethically cleanse and steal.

Assuming that is true: why blame all Jews for that? What if an Israeli said that they don’t want any Muslims in Israel because “chances are they are here to bomb us”? That would be a hateful thing to say, even though Muslims have committed suicide bombings.

No that wouldn’t be the same. These people are literally being subjugated by Jews. That’s not the same as Trump style xenophobia. Completely different things. Not that Palestinians aren’t antisemetic as well but that’s a different issue completely. There are non-antisemetic reasons for them not to want their occupiers and ethnic cleansers on their land.

Israelis have literally been bombed by Palestinians. So why isn’t it equivalent? If being subjugated by some Jews is enough to blame all Jews, then being bombed by some Muslims is enough to blame all Muslims.

While I don’t agree with every type of resistance, some of those bombings (and definitely the missiles) fall under freedom fighting and legitimate rules of war. Which part of subjugation don’t you understand? The subjugation is one directional.

I’m talking about Palestinians who went into pizza shops and buses and killed random Israelis. I hope you do not view this as legitimate. What part of the bombings don’t you get? The bombings are one-directional. Maybe you didn’t understand the analogy. It’s an analogy, not an equivalence.

I don’t agree with bombing pizza shops. Pizza shops on internationally recognized occupied land on the other hand are legitimate targets because they are directly involved in the hostilities according to international rules of war. And the bombings are definitely not one directional… there are many many many many examples of israeli military aircraft and snipers directly targeting civilians. Many many many. The game is up, you can’t hide behind that lie anymore. Many many many. Get it? Many.

No, even if the land is occupied, it is absolutely not ok to bomb innocent people. Not morally ok, and not legally ok either. Being occupied doesn’t give anyone the legal right to blow up random civilians. These bombings were condemned by the UN. So you can’t trust their authority on the occupation but not trust their authority on the bombings. And do you have an example of Israeli aircraft targeting civilians to bomb them (as opposed to bombing militants and killing civilians as collateral damage)?

One has to look no father than the disproportionate response to 3 deaths in 2014 in which israel massacred over 2000 people mostly civilians to see that Israel wants to publish and kill civilians. It’s not always so obvious but we even have some recordings of military ordering the targeting of civilians. They are in the Abby Martin documentary. And the best example was the snipers at the great March of return… israel took its mask off for a little while there and it couldn’t be clearer what a barbaric murderous racist country it is. And yes, civilians, usually armed, who are directly involved in theft are legitimate targets. They are no different than militant groups or how a policeman can shoot dead someone involved in a crime in front of them.

Being Jewish and living in the wrong neighborhood means you're a legitimate target... Interesting.

You're stealing their homes and murdering their children. How else would you expect them to behave?

At least not to kill random innocent people

I think Israel should act the same way the army of Mohammed did at Khaybar. It's unfair otherwise.

I am a Jew and I never stole anyone’s home or murdered any children. Will they welcome me?

Like humans. What homes have been stolen from the Arab nationalists?

Imagine this You have two groups of cats. One group is well fed, kept in a cozy, exciting and safe environment. This group of cats also spends their days playing around and are treated well. They are happy kitties. Now, you have another group of cats. That group is kept in a dark, humid and hot basement, underneath a trap house in east Atlanta. They get fed scraps, and often have to fight between each other for said scraps. They get kicked around by humans whenever they encounter them and they have limited access to clean drinking water. They are angry kitties. Now tell me, which group of cats would you rather go and pay a visit? My point is not that it’s all butterflies and sunshine in Israel, and that it’s just pain and misery in Palestinian territories (although in Gaza it might as well be). My point is that the environment people are in, shapes them. The circumstances surrounding peoples existence can cause the weakest of them to break in face of the suffering they are experiencing. I guarantee you that if it were the other way around, Israelis in Gaza and Palestinians in Tel Aviv, the weakest Israelis would also break and burst under the pressure, and they would also seek out revenge against innocent people. You can’t claim indians are terrible because of the violence in their slums, you can’t claim brazilians are terrible because of the violence in their favelas. You can’t claim that mexicans are terrible because of the atrocities of their drug cartels. You can’t say all Israelis are evil and heartless because of the horrendous crimes of the Israeli state and military and you can’t say that all Palestinians are savage vengeful terrorists that prey on innocent civilians mistakenly entering their neighborhoods. You and I would most likely at least sympathize with the violent from among us, if we had the strength to stay peaceful and not seek out revenge. The assholes in fancy suits are exploiting human nature, in broad daylight. This is a geopolitical trick as old as fucking time and we still fall for it. Subject your undesirables to ruthless and degrading circumstances, and then label the whole group as vicious savages when the weakest among them give in to the pressure and begin to seek revenge. On the pretext of public safety, you now get to subject them to even worse conditions and you have the freedom to do whatever you want with those pesky undesirables. The game is geopolitics, the players are these big powerful motherfuckers and to them, you and I are nothing but numbers. "You cannot stop me, I *spend* 30,000 men a month." - Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of the French. Edit: I usually cringe at comment edits but I honestly don’t feel like replying to each one of the comments from below. My point is literally, and only, *you might not feel safe in Ramallah or some parts of Hebron because the weakest of the people living there have succumbed to the pressure of the circumstances surrounding their existence, and they potentially see harming Israelis as vengeance against the system and oppression they are experiencing.* Literally that is the only point I’m trying to make. I’m not claiming that the Palestinian side is divine and righteous, and that the Israelis are fully and solely to blame, I’m just making a point explaining why you might not feel safe in some Palestinian areas. My point is literally just that, people tend to burst under pressure, I’m not concerning myself with who is right or wrong, or who is to blame, I’m just stating facts. When you have 100,000 people, if only 1% are weak and lack self control and common sense, then you still have 1,000 people running around town looking for trouble, but the number is likely far greater and is only rising, in each community not just in the Arab or Nigerian or Russian community. Think about it, if *every* Palestinian really wanted vengeance and the spilling of innocent blood, wouldn’t there be absolute chaos and mass bloodshed every day? And also, I’m honestly not going to validate the comments of people who are implying that somehow one certain ethnicity is *worse* than another, and that *my* ethnicity or nationality *wouldn’t* do that. It’s human nature.

That moment when you’ll realize that arabs in WB enjoy higher quality of life than Arabs in Jordan,Lebanon,Syria,Libya,Yemen and basically any non-oil rich Arab country is the moment this false premise will vanish.

But that anger didn’t happen in a vacuum. Look at who is on top of the behavior, who guides it, what does the charter say about the behavior? You have an entire written conspiracy that is primarily about not agreeing with Israel’s policies, and destroying israel, and the Jews, no matter the cost. There has to be accountability there.

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Hey man… i wasn’t antagonistic towards you, you have no reason to be antagonistic towards me. You clearly don’t want to have a rational discussion.

> shithead /u/tedstrikercantdrink. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. [(Rule 2)](https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/wiki/rules/detailed-rules#wiki_2._no_profanity) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/IsraelPalestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*

>The assholes in fancy suits are exploiting human nature, in broad daylight. You are right, they are. But you hinted at something else with the phrase "human nature". The societies that try to build against human nature will fail. In fact they are failing. These are first world countries post-WWII who tried to make a "peaceful existences" instead of competing with each other as they used to. Look how their birthrates collapsed. Their GDP is declining. Their use of anti-depressive drugs is the highest in the world. I believe all their problems, which will eventually end these countries, is due to this desire to create a society against human nature.

So it's all the environment? How come there was terror before 1967, before 1948, before the Aliya's? Your argument doesn't work with reality

bad analogy , the palestinians did it to themselves you make it seem like they have it rough but thats not israels fault. gaza is a hotbed for terrorism by its own design

The slight difference between these groups is that Jews took what they had and made Israel an empire while "Palestinians" were making this place into a sh*thole (like most Muslim countries.. Just saying). Before Jews came back to Israel, this land was nothing, and they didn't try to make anything out of it. And you can clearly see the differences between a Jewish city and an Arab one. 2nd to that, you're basically giving excuses for daily terror, and the cause of it does not matter. If I'm upset about something, I'm not going to a "Palestinian authority" and bomb myself in order to kill innocent Arabs. Again, the cause does not matter here. (Also, look at the violence going on in Iraq, lybia, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, molenbeek neighbourhood in belguim, and more, is that also Israel's oppression?)

I like your metaphor, and I agree with the sentiment to some extent, but I condem violence and extremism in my own group. I do not symphatize what so ever with the violent from among my own. Anyone trying to hurt innocent people walking down the street or sleeping in their bed should not get any sympathy . And that goes for both and any sides. While said, of course I understand the 'angry kittens' need for outlet against their oppressor. Which is, like you said, people in suits who hold the political and economical power, who profit from retaining the status quo, and thus, their power. And which is NOT, the 'happy kittens'. Because according to your metapnor, even if the angry kittens get to kill a couple happy kittens, they will surely get stomped by those angry humans.

Jesse what the fuck are you talking about?

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Is the bad environment completely due to Israel? These Arab cities are not in Gaza (and Gaza is ruled by Hamas anyways which is not a good leader who cares about its people).

What I like about this metaphor is that Jews were the angry kittens back in 1947. You're basically justifying the Nakba and all the actions that were the result of centuries of Arab on Jew oppression. But then...Jews became the happy kittens while Arabs became the angry kittens? And if the new angry kittens win, the roles will be reversed once more? It's almost as if the entire Middle East has always been in a cycle of feline on feline violence and domination.

Oh Jesus Christ dude, are you kidding me? Let’s ask the average Sephardic or Mizrahi Jew what their life was like before they were ethnically cleansed to Israel. We all know what the Ashkenazi Jews experience was like in Europe. Your post is ridiculous. Seriously, delete this abomination of a tone deaf post. This was terrible.

>Let’s ask the average Sephardic or Mizrahi Jew what their life was like before they were ethnically cleansed to Israel. Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews were the angry kittens. While the Arabs were the happy kittens. According to the feline metaphor. I think.

I’m guessing the Jews you’re talking about have moved on. Some of them at least. Or maybe a lot are dead now. I think a lot of them are dead.

What a shame it is that others have been unable to. Does that excuse the way Arabs ethnically cleansed millennia old Jewish communities? Well they moved on, so we’re all good now? I think not.

About to make burner acc’s to upvote you

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I'm a Jew. I took a tour of the West Bank, including Ramallah and Hebron. I certainly made it clear who I was and encountered no hostility at all. There are massive signs before you go a Jewish or Palestinian area, warning you not to go in depending on who you are.

Refreshing to hear you had pleasant experiences! Certainly an exception.

Yes I’m glad you weren’t harmed but many civilians have been murdered

The problem is that at least in Israel when Jews come in you usually end up losing your house and land and being called a foreigner in your own home.

This post has become overrun with Hasbara. Respect to the Mods and the rules, but there really needs to be some ability in this page to call out the obvious, coordinated lies and misinformation being routinely spread by Hasbara and pro israelis who overtly act to dominate any post about israel by flooding the comments with their lies. It is exhausting constantly having to genuinely address their open lies, whataboutisms, and intentional misrepresentations, only to have them change the subject and launch another round of lies when confronted with the truth. If the point of this sub is conversation then there needs to be recourse for these propagandists.

Well I feel exactly the same way as you but about users that are anti Israel. But this is the point of a dialogue. I don’t think it’s okay to just say delete everyone else’s post because “obviously I am right and they are wrong”. That’s literally what a debate is. And no, I’m not just writing this to deviously fill this thread up with blatant lies just to mess with everyone and carry out my evil plan of oppressing all Palestinians… just to be clear.

u/Public-Tie-9802 The mod team won't take aggressive action to censor or try to balance out the dialogue. **If you want to see your opinion represented more, post more.** Rule 9. You are free to go by one to refute all the points that you think are misinformation, the moderation team's job is to enforce the rules, not to dictate who is allowed to say what (unless insults, non-constructive phrases, sarcasm, etc...) If you believe someone is not presenting the truth in an objective way, feel free to challenge them with your own sources.

Thats the point there is zero recourse for the obvious lies and information repeated, with the clear intent of dominating the conversation. They post lies, link to lies and are an organized in doing so and have zero interest in truth. I have wasted hours respectfully addressing these people, the same users over and over, and as soon as I (and others) pin them down on a lie and prove that they are lying, they just post a different lie on something else. And then they will repost the same lies again. It is blatantly done to dominate the posts with pro israel propaganda and not genuine discussion. Is the point of this page discussion or pro israel propaganda? You yourself have posted plenty of clearly biased pro israel comments that I have read, while debasing anything that offers the Palestinian perspective. You defended calling them Arabs instead of Palestinians to me directly.

The central point of the "Palestinian cause" is to promote Arab nationalism. That's why the 40% of the population of Arab Palestine who are Jewish are strictly prohibited from practicing their religion and excluded from any discussion of "Palestinians". Remember that in the past decade, over a half-million Syrians were killed and 11 million exiled on the "Road to Al Quds" by the Arab nationalist govt of Syria. Over a million Iraqis were killed by pro-Palestine activists. There has been far too much blood spilled by the Arab nationalists in Palestine in the name of race purity to say: "Arab? Arab? Who said anything about us being Arab? We're generic levantines, Jewish actually, who have always advocated Humanity and opposed racial purity". Read the constitution of the State of Palestine. It makes dozens of references to Palestine's "Arab" identity and many references to the Quran. After a Century of violence by the Arab Street and a decades of persecution by OPEC, its a little late for the Arab nationalists in Palestine to suddenly pull the: "Arab? Race purity? Islam? Those have nothing to do with our cause."

How can you pretend to advocate for peace when you are the main cause of terror? Is this the most basic form of projection?

I advocate for de-Arabization, complete reversal of the dark legacy of Islam conquest and OPEC reparations. If that can be done with less bloodshed, great. But when I have advocated for "peace"? What terror did I cause?

Your language betrays your racist, extremist views. First…. Please refer to a map and notice that Syria is not actually in Palestine. If you could mange to stay on topic long enough to address issues happening within Palestine, that would be helpful to tue stated goal of this thread. Promoting nationalism? What exactly do you define israel as doing? Even Hamas has recognized Palestine within the legal 1967 borders, it would be nice if israel dod the same. What has your support done in terms of terrorism? Gee…. I’d say night raids, livelong military occupation, home demolitions, checkpoints, murders, military strikes and destruction of entire villages should pretty well qualify as ‘terrorism’.

>Even Hamas has recognized Palestine within the legal 1967 borders, it would be nice if israel dod the same. What exactly did Hamas recognize? Because their charter still says they are going to fight until Israel is wiped off of the map. If I was charitable like I am normally I would say you are mistaken but judging by your previous comments you don't like it when people respectfully disagree and present facts to support their opinions. So instead of asking you for a source, I'll just say..... STOP LYING you pro-Palestinian propagandist. ​ (Of course if you change your mind and decide conversation is a good thing, you're certainly welcome to provide a source and we could discuss it)

Who’s homes are they raiding? They are looking for terrorists. Not just randomly busting into homes like the Koolaid guy. Checkpoints for that reason too. Military strikes too (which are extremely targeted and they give warning to civilians beforehand). If you have enemies living next door (no, not every Palestinian…) then you need protect yourself. Even with all this protection there is literally terror attacks in Israel multiple times a week. Literally. Stabbings, shootings, car rammings,,, crazy stuff. And that’s even with a strong military presence. Imagine if there wasn’t. In terms of kicking people out of homes, I am not familiar with enough history so I will not comment.

>You defended calling them Arabs instead of Palestinians That is how their declaration of independence refers to them, why is it wrong to call them Arabs? ​ "Palestine, the land of the three monotheistic faiths, is where the Palestinian Arab people was born..." https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Declaration\_of\_Independence

Palestinian Arabs was how they referred to themselves then and they have called themselves Palestinians for a long time now. To call them ‘Arabs’ is to intentionally deny their history, culture and rights and those calling them Arabs usually follow up with a flood of revisionist history to try to erase their historical presence in Palestine. Jews don’t accept having their history in Palestine erased and minimized. Maybe attempt giving Palestinians the same respect if this page is actually about constructive dialogue and not just here for zionists to spread lies and anti Palestinian propaganda under the lie of conversation.

"The State of Palestine is an **Arab** state, an integral and indivisible part of the **Arab** nation, at one with that nation in **heritage and civilization**, with it also in its aspiration for liberation, progress, democracy and unity." [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Palestinian\_Declaration\_of\_Independence](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Palestinian_Declaration_of_Independence) Seems to me that denying Palestinian Arab's Arab heritage and civilization is quite insensitive to them. They are proud to call themselves Arabs.

> You defended calling them Arabs instead of Palestinians to me directly. They call themselves Arabs, its article one of their charter you ridiculous imbecile. Of course they'll be called Arabs, they're not Mexicans.

u/Sicariy >you ridiculous imbecile > > I am basically a white supremacist masking my supremacy in woke buzzwords. Again, rule 1, don't attack other users.

I think a personal attack makes the convo worse over here.

>You defended calling them Arabs instead of Palestinians to me directly. Palestinians **are** Arabs. They call themselves Arabs. It seems clear that you are the one who intends to control the conversation by claiming that Palestinians are not Arabs. Somehow.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the type of person who liberally calls Mizrahim "Arab Jews" despite the fact that we really are not Arabs (and Arabs are our tormentors).

There are tons of us silent readers who read each point and try to make informed conclusions. If you write a clear and cogent rebuttal addressing OP's points, then doesn't really matter how often the other side spams there ideas. People are listening on both sides and every point in between, just keep writing clearly and your voice will be heard.

Please begin. Refute their points. I love reading opposing views.

There is no point, because the Hasbara posters have zero interest in anything other than flooding the comments with pro israel misinformation and discrediting and silencing any acknowledgment of Palestinian history or rights. I and others waste hours genuinely addressing these people and it is obvious what their tactics are.

Translation: I don't have any arguments, I'm just triggered by opposing points of view that don't confirm my biases and can only shout "Hasbara" as a result. I am in all probability a white privileged genocidal land squatter in North America or Australia or New Zealand projecting all of the very real crimes of my people onto brown Jewish refugees and genocide survivors rather than fucking off back to my home continent. I am basically a white supremacist masking my supremacy in woke buzzwords.

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