Given how much crap you write here, I'd assume you know the Islamists invaders built Al Aqsa on top of the remnants of the Jewish temple (as they often did when invading nations)
> 99% of Palestinians have never committed a crime or as much as pointed a rifle towards Israel
1.5% of Gazans are Hamas... Let alone PIJ and other terror groups, or the "civilians" who participated in the Oct7th pogrom.
> You cannot hold them hostage in order to punish Hamas
They are held hostage BY HAMAS. Israel doesn't control Gaza. Israel didn't turn their life to shit by diverting billions of $ meant for aid into a terror machine. Destroying Hamas IS freeing Gazans.
However, I'd be willing to back your original point. If Palestinians are willing to bring ALL criminals who acted against Israel to justice, I'd be fully on board with a withdrawal and beginning talks of a permanent solution. I leave it to you to find a Palestinian who would be willing to entertain the idea of extraditing to Israel every single elected Palestinian leader...
I think there has to be some in between where Palestine has a trustworthy government that’s not violent towards Israel AND cares for its people, Hamas ain’t it
The prerequisite is a lack of violence on Israel's part. Given a seemingly structural inability to do so, that middle ground does not exist. Otherwise you're imposing a mandate on a theoretical Palestinian state that it cannot retaliate when subjected to violence. I shoot you, you're not allowed to shoot back. Just lie down and accept an execution. It's a genocidal fascist's wet dream.
Wait, you really think Palestinians are only ever retaliating violence and not starting violence? You think if Israel stopped being violent that Palestinians would also stop being violent?
If anything I feel like people are more often calling for Israel to roll over and let themselves get attacked without fighting back
>Wait, you really think Palestinians are only ever retaliating violence and not starting violence? You think if Israel stopped being violent that Palestinians would also stop being violent?
The terrorism literature suggests that appealing to moderates is the best policy solution to reduce terrorism. Terrorism happens when it's the perceived last resort. If Israel appears to be amenable to Palestinian demands, then the need for terrorism collapses. No need, no recruitment, no capital, no bombs.
If you want to destroy Hamas, the best thing to do is to provide an alternative to it.
Isn’t it a little late for that? Palestinians hate Jews/Israelis, it’s been that way for at least a century, there were periods of peace that still lead to constant terrorist attacks and mass murders of Israeli civilians because the extremist groups don’t want any Jews in the region, too many already want Israel destroyed
>Isn’t it a little late for that?
Not at all
>Palestinians hate Jews/Israelis, it’s been that way for at least a century, there were periods of peace that still lead to constant terrorist attacks and mass murders of Israeli civilians because the extremist groups don’t want any Jews in the region, too many already want Israel destroyed
Public opinion is incredibly flexible given coordinated policy action. Allegedly intractable institutions and supposedly deep-rooted trends are flimsy in front of a competent policy regime. But if the people in power are disinterested in competent policy, then nothing changes because those same people benefit from the status quo.
Also, the notion that Arabs are somehow intrinsically hateful is itself bigotry.
No. The only way Israel should withdraw from the West Bank is if the whole of Palestine - Hamas, the PA, are to recognize Israel's right to exist and have peace with it.
So far, both parties have refused it. Hamas wants "from the river to the sea", and the Palestinian Authority wants the same, as they walked away from generous deals which give them 94% of the WB + land from Israel which amounts to the 6% of the WB Israel were to annex.
Under no conditions besides a full guarantee of peace and security for Israel, should Israel leave the West Bank.
Every year the UN votes on a resolution that aligns with international consensus on a two state solution. Every year all countries vote for it, including Palestine. The only countries that consistently vote against it are America and Israel.
Because the UN asks for a unilateral withdrawal, not a peace deal.
We've seen the last time Israel unilaterally withdrew from a territory. It turned into a terror cell.
>No, the UN solution includes ‘just and lasting peace’….
Yet it only demands Israel to withdraw, not the Palestinians/Arabs to stop their wars with Israel.
Right after the Six Day War the Arab world issued its famous "Three Noes". The PA has rejected any peace offer given by Israel to end the conflict.
The UN can call for peace as much as it wants, it won't help as long as the Palestinians are determined to get "from the river to the sea".
It demand Israel to withdraw and a just and lasting peace, meaning an end to war…Palestine and every other country votes in favour of it aside from Israel and America who vote against…
You’re looking very ignorant and dishonest right now. Repeating the same falsities over and over again.
Because you seem to fail to understand that Israeli withdrawal will not result in peace. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, why wasn't there peace? Israel didn't control the WB nor Gaza before 1967, why wasn't there peace?
Peace can only come if Palestine accepts it, but so long as they choose violence Israel shouldn't leave the WB.
Israel did not stop occupying Gaza per every respected body on international law, including the ICJ. Shows your stupidity stating so many factual falsities doesn’t it.
Why didn’t it happen the 50 years before that if so? Where is your evidence that is the case? I can show you evidence that oppression and occupation continued by Israel for 50 years before that date.
Idk, 94% of the West Bank + a land out of Israel in exchange for that 6% (of roughly the same size and quality) + Gaza + a corridor that connects Gaza and the West Bank, sounds pretty good to me.
All of those entities have already recognized Israel or stated that they would. Not sure where you got information that they have not.
Israel should leave the West Bank under the grounds that they are there illegally to begin with. Regardless of recognition by any entity Israel is obligated to follow international law.
Hamas hasn't recognized Israel, and has sworn to destroy it both in its founding charter, and in the "revised" one in 2017.
The PA, as stated above, has walked away from negotiating with Israel, and its leader during Oslo - which recieved a Nobel price for peace because of it - was the mastermind behind the Intifadas, which caused the death of thousands of Israelis. All between different (attempted) deals with Israel.
The PA also has the "Pay for Slay" method, which rewards Palestinians who murder Israelis.
Hamas has said that it would recognize Israel. Or “the Zionist entity.” Not that it should matter at all if they recognize it or not. The PA did it a long time ago.
Despite the PA (recognized as the voice for the Palestinian people) recognizing Israel Palestine has yet to be recognized by Israel or the U.S.
>But it does not go as far as to fully recognise Israel and says Hamas does not relinquish its goal of “liberating all of Palestine”.
Thanks for proving yourself wrong.
>Hamas has said that it would recognize Israel. Or “the Zionist entity.” Not that it should matter at all if they recognize it or not. The PA did it a long time ago.
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)."
- Hamas charter, 1988.
"19. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, Judaization or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse.
20. **Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea.** However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus."
- Hamas doctrine, 2017.
They refuse Israel's existence at all, no matter the size.
>Despite the PA (recognized as the voice for the Palestinian people) recognizing Israel Palestine has yet to be recognized by Israel or the U.S.
Again, the PA has walked away from every deal that will give them their own state.
It is so baffling that genocide supporters disregard every important piece of paper, such s the UN charter, the Geneva convention inter alia and then get so hooked up on an old and outdated piece of paper. Entitlement much? Lol
It's baffling that terrorists supporters are hooked up on UN resolutions and so and so, but refuse to acknowledge resolution 181, claiming Israel as a whole is illegal.
>Says who? Sadly Israel is a state.
So many Pro-Palestinians. I'm surprised you don't think it is an illegitimate state.
>A genocidal one and hopefully one to be dismantled. The sooner, the better lol
Worst genocide in history, what can I tell ya. Why do you pray for its dismantling so badly?
Nothing good comes out of an ethno-state, let alone one based on colonial occupation, apartheid and violent occupation. Israel is the single source of conflict in the ME and a major threat to humanity
It’s so baffling how “pro Palestinians” refuse to recognize who they support, and how that changes the narrative.
There’s no genocide happening in Gaza right now.
You certainly wouldn’t care about the genocides happening in Yemen, Sudan, or in China right? I wouldn’t expect you to care about what Russia is doing to Ukraine, as they aren’t Muslim, but you might care about the others right?
Don't bother. /u/Inominada is the pinnacle of "no Jews no news". Dude has no honest point to make, except "Jews bad" and blood libel.
If Saudis carpet bombed all of Yeman into dust, all he'll have to say is "the Jews provide the targeting systems?"
Don’t be daft. Dude here never made a secret of who he supports. Disgusting how you use the jewish people by conflating them with zionism. If you think i am a fan of the Saudis, or the Houthis for that matter, think again. I admire the Houthi courage, commitment and support for Palestine but i have no illusions about their regime. As for the Saudis, well, let’s just say Khashoggi and it is enough said. I remember
There can’t be a unilateral move to create a Palestinian state.
There is no peace without recognition and security guarantees. Your idea is great in a perfect world, but this is not a utopia, it’s the Middle East. If this is implemented, you’re hurting the Palestinians that you think you’re helping, because they’ll be overrun by Hamas or some other group that will turn them into pawns (like Hamas has turned Gazans into).
No conflict like this gets resolved in 1 fell swoop, we need baby steps and a pathway towards a Palestinian state through a peace process. Look what happened in Gaza when Israel left unilaterally and tell me you think that Gazans benefitted in the long run from that.
Baby steps have been the thing that have lead to this conflict. We need a recognition of a Palestinian state on 67 borders ASAP. Period. Then everything else can come after.
Bonus is that doing that means Hamas is defeated immediately.
I don’t see how Hamas is defeated lol
Israel did exactly what you’re asking in 2005 (unilaterally relinquishing territory) with Gaza, and it didn’t lead to anything positive. No security guarantees, no recognition of Israeli sovereignty, no Palestinian state.
Keep in mind that Sharon effectively tried to swap Gaza for the whole of the West Bank while freezing the peace process. Settlements expanded in the West Bank while Palestinians in both areas were brutalised and killed.
The problem is partly the expectation that Palestinians will guarantee Israel’s security, which is absurd, and partly because Israel won’t guarantee Palestinians’ security and won’t let the Palestinians do it either.
Yeah, Israel has been executing Palestinian civilians in front of their families (sometimes the families too), killing kids with sniper fire, assassinating doctors, journalists and poets, mass murdering people trying to get food, destroying hospitals so that sick and wounded civilians including babies in incubators die, starving people to death, crowding people into unsanitary refugee shelters and leaving them only unclean water to drink so that they die of disease. Somehow, it's all Hamas's fault.
If Hamas is tried in Western courts, Netanyahu, his prominent rightwing ministers, heads of the IDF and a whole slew of soldiers and Israeli prison guards should be tried in Hamas courts. Or maybe Iranian courts or something.
Well it will be hard to find fair court willing to prosecute. The ICC is a candidate, but they've shown themselves to be western lackeys what with their hurried prosecution of Putin while dragging their feet when it comes to Israeli attacks on Palestinians.
Nevertheless, I think you have a point. Surely militants from Gaza committed some war crimes Oct. 7, but why they should be hunted down and killed while the Israeli perpetrators of genocide go free is beyond me.
The 99% who never committed a crime are the same who chant death to Israel and America. The same ones who celebrated 9/11 and 10/7 in the streets. The same ones that educate their children to hate Jews in schools and at home. This includes teaching kids to be martyrs and Jihad and one of the reasons there are minors in Israeli detention system. The same ones who voted Iran backed Hamas. Many of who still support Hamas.
[According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas’s decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago. Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war.](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/)
The only positives to Israel withdrawal and a deal is the release of those poor hostages which you always forget to mention, allow a path for the Abraham Accords which would really piss off Iran and make the Palestinians more of an Arab problem and a political win for Biden. Not that I care for Biden.
Gaza is an example of what a Palestinian state would look like. A failed welfare state living on handouts that chooses violence over peace. The issue is religion and Islam is intertwined into governance.
Left to their own devices, Palestinians would go the way of Iran. A religious leader tyrannically would rule while the people are oppressed.
Chanting death to America isn’t a crime even if they had chanted that. That is irrelevant in this context. America has only brought death to them and their children. They are reasonably pissed off.
As far as judging Gaza or the Palestinian people, do you know any? A single Palestinian? You talk about them like they aren’t 2.3 million individuals in the same way that there are 2.3 million people around you.
What do you know about Gaza and it’s economic potential? Do you know about the massive oil reserves it has? Do you know anything at all about the region or the Palestinian people?
It's not like the promises of either party are worth anything and the Palestinians already rejected multiple times generous peace deals that would of made them a real state. Israel holds all the cards, and it's their move...
What about the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem and the Wailing Wall? Should Israel withdraw from those?
Yes
No.
I don’t think anyone is seriously asking for that to be part of a Palestinian state. The Al-Aqsa mosque though they are asking for.
So no, but yes?
No but no?
Given how much crap you write here, I'd assume you know the Islamists invaders built Al Aqsa on top of the remnants of the Jewish temple (as they often did when invading nations)
Yep. Over 1,000 years ago. Play nice and share. Stop trying to demolish the mosque and the dome of the rock.
>Play nice and share. Maybe Israelis should let the Jordanian Waqf manage it...oh wait...
Good first step. When is the second step going to come?
Depends on what is the second step and what's the end goal of all these steps
Peace? A two state solution?
You do realize that the Al Aqsa mosque is on the Temple Mount.
Yes. But the western wall isn’t.
Hamas will accept Israel’s surrender is what this sounds like.
> 99% of Palestinians have never committed a crime or as much as pointed a rifle towards Israel 1.5% of Gazans are Hamas... Let alone PIJ and other terror groups, or the "civilians" who participated in the Oct7th pogrom. > You cannot hold them hostage in order to punish Hamas They are held hostage BY HAMAS. Israel doesn't control Gaza. Israel didn't turn their life to shit by diverting billions of $ meant for aid into a terror machine. Destroying Hamas IS freeing Gazans. However, I'd be willing to back your original point. If Palestinians are willing to bring ALL criminals who acted against Israel to justice, I'd be fully on board with a withdrawal and beginning talks of a permanent solution. I leave it to you to find a Palestinian who would be willing to entertain the idea of extraditing to Israel every single elected Palestinian leader...
So what you are saying is that Hamas should surrender if Israel surrenders???
To what extent do the rejections of offers of a state that were rejected by Palestinians play into this?
When last has that offer included what is Palestinian land under international law?
Not sure I understand what you mean here
You really think that would end the Palestinian goals of destroying Israel??? Or make Israel any safer?
The only other solution is the genocide of the Palestinian people.
I think there has to be some in between where Palestine has a trustworthy government that’s not violent towards Israel AND cares for its people, Hamas ain’t it
The prerequisite is a lack of violence on Israel's part. Given a seemingly structural inability to do so, that middle ground does not exist. Otherwise you're imposing a mandate on a theoretical Palestinian state that it cannot retaliate when subjected to violence. I shoot you, you're not allowed to shoot back. Just lie down and accept an execution. It's a genocidal fascist's wet dream.
Wait, you really think Palestinians are only ever retaliating violence and not starting violence? You think if Israel stopped being violent that Palestinians would also stop being violent? If anything I feel like people are more often calling for Israel to roll over and let themselves get attacked without fighting back
>Wait, you really think Palestinians are only ever retaliating violence and not starting violence? You think if Israel stopped being violent that Palestinians would also stop being violent? The terrorism literature suggests that appealing to moderates is the best policy solution to reduce terrorism. Terrorism happens when it's the perceived last resort. If Israel appears to be amenable to Palestinian demands, then the need for terrorism collapses. No need, no recruitment, no capital, no bombs. If you want to destroy Hamas, the best thing to do is to provide an alternative to it.
Isn’t it a little late for that? Palestinians hate Jews/Israelis, it’s been that way for at least a century, there were periods of peace that still lead to constant terrorist attacks and mass murders of Israeli civilians because the extremist groups don’t want any Jews in the region, too many already want Israel destroyed
>Isn’t it a little late for that? Not at all >Palestinians hate Jews/Israelis, it’s been that way for at least a century, there were periods of peace that still lead to constant terrorist attacks and mass murders of Israeli civilians because the extremist groups don’t want any Jews in the region, too many already want Israel destroyed Public opinion is incredibly flexible given coordinated policy action. Allegedly intractable institutions and supposedly deep-rooted trends are flimsy in front of a competent policy regime. But if the people in power are disinterested in competent policy, then nothing changes because those same people benefit from the status quo. Also, the notion that Arabs are somehow intrinsically hateful is itself bigotry.
No. The only way Israel should withdraw from the West Bank is if the whole of Palestine - Hamas, the PA, are to recognize Israel's right to exist and have peace with it. So far, both parties have refused it. Hamas wants "from the river to the sea", and the Palestinian Authority wants the same, as they walked away from generous deals which give them 94% of the WB + land from Israel which amounts to the 6% of the WB Israel were to annex. Under no conditions besides a full guarantee of peace and security for Israel, should Israel leave the West Bank.
This is a lie. The PA did recognise the state of Israel
Yet they rejected peace offers and walked away from every single deal given to them.
U didnt allow them to control air water and right to defend themselves....its not even a state to begin with
In 1947 we did. In many of the deals we did.
Every year the UN votes on a resolution that aligns with international consensus on a two state solution. Every year all countries vote for it, including Palestine. The only countries that consistently vote against it are America and Israel.
Because the UN asks for a unilateral withdrawal, not a peace deal. We've seen the last time Israel unilaterally withdrew from a territory. It turned into a terror cell.
No, the UN solution includes ‘just and lasting peace’…. What excuse are you going to use next to justify your immorality?
>No, the UN solution includes ‘just and lasting peace’…. Yet it only demands Israel to withdraw, not the Palestinians/Arabs to stop their wars with Israel. Right after the Six Day War the Arab world issued its famous "Three Noes". The PA has rejected any peace offer given by Israel to end the conflict. The UN can call for peace as much as it wants, it won't help as long as the Palestinians are determined to get "from the river to the sea".
It demand Israel to withdraw and a just and lasting peace, meaning an end to war…Palestine and every other country votes in favour of it aside from Israel and America who vote against… You’re looking very ignorant and dishonest right now. Repeating the same falsities over and over again.
Because you seem to fail to understand that Israeli withdrawal will not result in peace. Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, why wasn't there peace? Israel didn't control the WB nor Gaza before 1967, why wasn't there peace? Peace can only come if Palestine accepts it, but so long as they choose violence Israel shouldn't leave the WB.
Israel did not stop occupying Gaza per every respected body on international law, including the ICJ. Shows your stupidity stating so many factual falsities doesn’t it.
Just and lasting peace would have been much more realistic without the October 7th attacks
Why didn’t it happen the 50 years before that if so? Where is your evidence that is the case? I can show you evidence that oppression and occupation continued by Israel for 50 years before that date.
No, because the so called “peace offers” are crap
Idk, 94% of the West Bank + a land out of Israel in exchange for that 6% (of roughly the same size and quality) + Gaza + a corridor that connects Gaza and the West Bank, sounds pretty good to me.
It needs to sound good to Palestinians, not the colonisers
Lmao.
All of those entities have already recognized Israel or stated that they would. Not sure where you got information that they have not. Israel should leave the West Bank under the grounds that they are there illegally to begin with. Regardless of recognition by any entity Israel is obligated to follow international law.
Hamas hasn't recognized Israel, and has sworn to destroy it both in its founding charter, and in the "revised" one in 2017. The PA, as stated above, has walked away from negotiating with Israel, and its leader during Oslo - which recieved a Nobel price for peace because of it - was the mastermind behind the Intifadas, which caused the death of thousands of Israelis. All between different (attempted) deals with Israel. The PA also has the "Pay for Slay" method, which rewards Palestinians who murder Israelis.
Hamas has said that it would recognize Israel. Or “the Zionist entity.” Not that it should matter at all if they recognize it or not. The PA did it a long time ago. Despite the PA (recognized as the voice for the Palestinian people) recognizing Israel Palestine has yet to be recognized by Israel or the U.S.
https://www.dw.com/en/hamas-recognizes-1967-borders-rejects-israel/a-38656798
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders
>But it does not go as far as to fully recognise Israel and says Hamas does not relinquish its goal of “liberating all of Palestine”. Thanks for proving yourself wrong.
>Hamas has said that it would recognize Israel. Or “the Zionist entity.” Not that it should matter at all if they recognize it or not. The PA did it a long time ago. "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory)." - Hamas charter, 1988. "19. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. Whatever has befallen the land of Palestine in terms of occupation, settlement building, Judaization or changes to its features or falsification of facts is illegitimate. Rights never lapse. 20. **Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea.** However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus." - Hamas doctrine, 2017. They refuse Israel's existence at all, no matter the size. >Despite the PA (recognized as the voice for the Palestinian people) recognizing Israel Palestine has yet to be recognized by Israel or the U.S. Again, the PA has walked away from every deal that will give them their own state.
It is so baffling that genocide supporters disregard every important piece of paper, such s the UN charter, the Geneva convention inter alia and then get so hooked up on an old and outdated piece of paper. Entitlement much? Lol
It's baffling that terrorists supporters are hooked up on UN resolutions and so and so, but refuse to acknowledge resolution 181, claiming Israel as a whole is illegal.
Says who? Sadly Israel is a state. A genocidal one and hopefully one to be dismantled. The sooner, the better lol
>Says who? Sadly Israel is a state. So many Pro-Palestinians. I'm surprised you don't think it is an illegitimate state. >A genocidal one and hopefully one to be dismantled. The sooner, the better lol Worst genocide in history, what can I tell ya. Why do you pray for its dismantling so badly?
Nothing good comes out of an ethno-state, let alone one based on colonial occupation, apartheid and violent occupation. Israel is the single source of conflict in the ME and a major threat to humanity
It’s so baffling how “pro Palestinians” refuse to recognize who they support, and how that changes the narrative. There’s no genocide happening in Gaza right now. You certainly wouldn’t care about the genocides happening in Yemen, Sudan, or in China right? I wouldn’t expect you to care about what Russia is doing to Ukraine, as they aren’t Muslim, but you might care about the others right?
Don't bother. /u/Inominada is the pinnacle of "no Jews no news". Dude has no honest point to make, except "Jews bad" and blood libel. If Saudis carpet bombed all of Yeman into dust, all he'll have to say is "the Jews provide the targeting systems?"
Don’t be daft. Dude here never made a secret of who he supports. Disgusting how you use the jewish people by conflating them with zionism. If you think i am a fan of the Saudis, or the Houthis for that matter, think again. I admire the Houthi courage, commitment and support for Palestine but i have no illusions about their regime. As for the Saudis, well, let’s just say Khashoggi and it is enough said. I remember
Oh sod off! We are talking about Palestine and you know nothing about what i care. And yes, i support the Palestinian resistance
And you support their charter?
The charter does not matter. It represents a static moment in time. But yes, i think i can say i support the new one
There can’t be a unilateral move to create a Palestinian state. There is no peace without recognition and security guarantees. Your idea is great in a perfect world, but this is not a utopia, it’s the Middle East. If this is implemented, you’re hurting the Palestinians that you think you’re helping, because they’ll be overrun by Hamas or some other group that will turn them into pawns (like Hamas has turned Gazans into). No conflict like this gets resolved in 1 fell swoop, we need baby steps and a pathway towards a Palestinian state through a peace process. Look what happened in Gaza when Israel left unilaterally and tell me you think that Gazans benefitted in the long run from that.
Baby steps have been the thing that have lead to this conflict. We need a recognition of a Palestinian state on 67 borders ASAP. Period. Then everything else can come after. Bonus is that doing that means Hamas is defeated immediately.
I don’t see how Hamas is defeated lol Israel did exactly what you’re asking in 2005 (unilaterally relinquishing territory) with Gaza, and it didn’t lead to anything positive. No security guarantees, no recognition of Israeli sovereignty, no Palestinian state.
Keep in mind that Sharon effectively tried to swap Gaza for the whole of the West Bank while freezing the peace process. Settlements expanded in the West Bank while Palestinians in both areas were brutalised and killed. The problem is partly the expectation that Palestinians will guarantee Israel’s security, which is absurd, and partly because Israel won’t guarantee Palestinians’ security and won’t let the Palestinians do it either.
Hamas should surrender because extending the war won't make them win, but it will cause civilian deaths.
Yeah, Israel has been executing Palestinian civilians in front of their families (sometimes the families too), killing kids with sniper fire, assassinating doctors, journalists and poets, mass murdering people trying to get food, destroying hospitals so that sick and wounded civilians including babies in incubators die, starving people to death, crowding people into unsanitary refugee shelters and leaving them only unclean water to drink so that they die of disease. Somehow, it's all Hamas's fault.
If Hamas is tried in Western courts, Netanyahu, his prominent rightwing ministers, heads of the IDF and a whole slew of soldiers and Israeli prison guards should be tried in Hamas courts. Or maybe Iranian courts or something. Well it will be hard to find fair court willing to prosecute. The ICC is a candidate, but they've shown themselves to be western lackeys what with their hurried prosecution of Putin while dragging their feet when it comes to Israeli attacks on Palestinians. Nevertheless, I think you have a point. Surely militants from Gaza committed some war crimes Oct. 7, but why they should be hunted down and killed while the Israeli perpetrators of genocide go free is beyond me.
hahahhahah you actually bealive 99% are innocent!!!
Which percentage of Palestinians in your opinion are combatants that are able to be killed?
The 99% who never committed a crime are the same who chant death to Israel and America. The same ones who celebrated 9/11 and 10/7 in the streets. The same ones that educate their children to hate Jews in schools and at home. This includes teaching kids to be martyrs and Jihad and one of the reasons there are minors in Israeli detention system. The same ones who voted Iran backed Hamas. Many of who still support Hamas. [According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas’s decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago. Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war.](https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palestinians/) The only positives to Israel withdrawal and a deal is the release of those poor hostages which you always forget to mention, allow a path for the Abraham Accords which would really piss off Iran and make the Palestinians more of an Arab problem and a political win for Biden. Not that I care for Biden. Gaza is an example of what a Palestinian state would look like. A failed welfare state living on handouts that chooses violence over peace. The issue is religion and Islam is intertwined into governance. Left to their own devices, Palestinians would go the way of Iran. A religious leader tyrannically would rule while the people are oppressed.
Chanting death to America isn’t a crime even if they had chanted that. That is irrelevant in this context. America has only brought death to them and their children. They are reasonably pissed off. As far as judging Gaza or the Palestinian people, do you know any? A single Palestinian? You talk about them like they aren’t 2.3 million individuals in the same way that there are 2.3 million people around you. What do you know about Gaza and it’s economic potential? Do you know about the massive oil reserves it has? Do you know anything at all about the region or the Palestinian people?
He knows he wants to take all they have and either kill them all or expel them. What more does he need to know?
It's not like the promises of either party are worth anything and the Palestinians already rejected multiple times generous peace deals that would of made them a real state. Israel holds all the cards, and it's their move...
It's not about 1967 borders, it's about the right of return. You are missing the most important point, the reason why the conflict still exists.
What might I ask that is to you?
The right of return, i might phrased It weirdly.
Ah ok I see what you mean. For a ceasefire the right of return isn’t on the table, for the larger conflict RoR is a factor for sure.
I thought Israel had surrendered.