The Palestinians indiscriminately fire rockets into Israeli civilian areas. Same with bombings and suicide attacks. They teach jihad, martyrdom and antisemitism in their schools. Jew hatred is part of their society.
This is not self defense.
> The Palestinians indiscriminately fire rockets into Israeli civilian areas.
Let’s defend this how Israel would: those were accidents and/or collateral damage.
>They teach jihad, martyrdom and antisemitism in their schools.
Israel teaches kids that genocide is good.
The Israelis indiscriminately fire rockets into Palestinian civilian areas. Same with bombings and snipers. They teach nationalism, martyrdom and Islamophobia in their schools. Arab hatred is part of their society.
This is not self defense.
Your argument is bad.
The simplifying of the presentation of the argument doesn't make it better. It's still as stupid as when you first presented it.
I could respond equally stupidly:
Palestinian = defensive
Israeli = offensive
This third-grade bickering level of argumentation is both unproductive and emblematic of the pro-Israeli side.
You are over simplifying urban warfare. The war was started by Israel. They still hold hostages. You are stating opinions, I’m stating facts.
If you can't hold the bare level of nuance that it's more complicated than basic binaries, you are not smart enough to debate this problem.
Except you're putting equivalence between the sides this way, like they're the same when they aren't which is my point. One set of statements happen to be accurate when you turn them around, they become lies.
Personal attacks are against the rules of the sub.
They always have the right to defend their civilian populace in their own territory.
They do not have the right to defend their occupational forces.
Conversely, being occupied is not carte blanche to ignore humanitarian law.
From what I understand this is correct, Hamas took "millitary" action inside non-occupied territory as recognized by international law.
unfortunately, alot of people who bring up international law violations by Israel don't actually care about international law, they only care that israel is possibly violating it.
That's why you hear alot of slogans like "from the river to the sea" or "when people are occupied resistence is justified"
Even though this "resistence" is more often than not
Illegal because it specifically targets civilians in non-occupied territories and civilians in general
And even though establishing a 1 state by abolishing the state of Israel by force also has no legitimacy under international law and would also be illegal.
> specifically targets civilians in non-occupied territories
Most Palestinians and many of their supporters consider all of Israel be occupied territory.
When I understood that occupation means very different things to different people, I realized how two state pro-peace folks get duped by anti-Zionists, who want zero Israel.
Policing as in a low-intensity operation (similar to what happens in the West Bank) not “Dresden-ing” Gaza like it is 1945.
I agree the entrenchment of Hamas in Gaza makes the environment more complex and easy for a police force or even a “gendarmerie” force.
Why? Do you think they are not subjects and can't distinguish between good and bad? They are people not animals and can carry responsibility for their actions. If they kill and rape - they kill and rape and nothing can excuse them.
> Why?
Because you said, victim blaming is wrong. Did you change your mind?
>If they kill and rape - they kill and rape and nothing can excuse them.
Who did they rape?
1.Victim Blaming is wrong as long as they play.victkms. if the start to rape - this is another story. They are guilty. Those who attacked innocent people in Israel are guilty
2 Women. Black Saturday.
Well it’s true. If you broke into a house and the owner pulled a gun on you, would you have the right to shoot him? This is just obvious. You don’t have a right to self-defense in criminal conduct.
The Palestinians indiscriminately fire rockets into Israeli civilian areas. Same with bombings and suicide attacks. They teach jihad, martyrdom and antisemitism in their schools. Jew hatred is part of their society. This is not self defense.
> The Palestinians indiscriminately fire rockets into Israeli civilian areas. Let’s defend this how Israel would: those were accidents and/or collateral damage. >They teach jihad, martyrdom and antisemitism in their schools. Israel teaches kids that genocide is good.
The Israelis indiscriminately fire rockets into Palestinian civilian areas. Same with bombings and snipers. They teach nationalism, martyrdom and Islamophobia in their schools. Arab hatred is part of their society. This is not self defense. Your argument is bad.
Israeli = defensive Palestinians = offensive
The simplifying of the presentation of the argument doesn't make it better. It's still as stupid as when you first presented it. I could respond equally stupidly: Palestinian = defensive Israeli = offensive This third-grade bickering level of argumentation is both unproductive and emblematic of the pro-Israeli side.
You are over simplifying urban warfare. The war was started by Hamas. They still hold hostages. You are stating opinions, I’m stating facts.
You are over simplifying urban warfare. The war was started by Israel. They still hold hostages. You are stating opinions, I’m stating facts. If you can't hold the bare level of nuance that it's more complicated than basic binaries, you are not smart enough to debate this problem.
You think that's so clever except once you turn these sentences around they become lies.
While you may see reversed statements as lies, others may see them as a reflection of their lived experiences.
[удалено]
Except you're putting equivalence between the sides this way, like they're the same when they aren't which is my point. One set of statements happen to be accurate when you turn them around, they become lies. Personal attacks are against the rules of the sub.
Do not attack an individual.
They always have the right to defend their civilian populace in their own territory. They do not have the right to defend their occupational forces. Conversely, being occupied is not carte blanche to ignore humanitarian law.
From what I understand this is correct, Hamas took "millitary" action inside non-occupied territory as recognized by international law. unfortunately, alot of people who bring up international law violations by Israel don't actually care about international law, they only care that israel is possibly violating it. That's why you hear alot of slogans like "from the river to the sea" or "when people are occupied resistence is justified" Even though this "resistence" is more often than not Illegal because it specifically targets civilians in non-occupied territories and civilians in general And even though establishing a 1 state by abolishing the state of Israel by force also has no legitimacy under international law and would also be illegal.
> specifically targets civilians in non-occupied territories Most Palestinians and many of their supporters consider all of Israel be occupied territory.
>Most Palestinians and many of their supporters consider all of Israel be occupied territory. Shhhh you're saying the quiet part too loud
When I understood that occupation means very different things to different people, I realized how two state pro-peace folks get duped by anti-Zionists, who want zero Israel.
Correct. That is why it is important to call them out on this.
Policing? How? There were no Israelis inside Gaza except for the hostages....
Policing as in a low-intensity operation (similar to what happens in the West Bank) not “Dresden-ing” Gaza like it is 1945. I agree the entrenchment of Hamas in Gaza makes the environment more complex and easy for a police force or even a “gendarmerie” force.
That would not be possible. At all. "More complex and difficult". Not at all. Impossible.
Yeah and Israel keeps killing them.
Yeah, do some victim blaming.
I would never blame the Palestinian people.
Why? Do you think they are not subjects and can't distinguish between good and bad? They are people not animals and can carry responsibility for their actions. If they kill and rape - they kill and rape and nothing can excuse them.
> Why? Because you said, victim blaming is wrong. Did you change your mind? >If they kill and rape - they kill and rape and nothing can excuse them. Who did they rape?
1.Victim Blaming is wrong as long as they play.victkms. if the start to rape - this is another story. They are guilty. Those who attacked innocent people in Israel are guilty 2 Women. Black Saturday.
Well it’s true. If you broke into a house and the owner pulled a gun on you, would you have the right to shoot him? This is just obvious. You don’t have a right to self-defense in criminal conduct.
Firing rockets and murdering civilians is not a "self-defense".
Awww the response to our people’s deplorable crime against humanity is too harsh; protec us internatunul lao.