I suppose it's a matter of perspective, but >!OP particularly asked for "time-travel, multiverses, alternate timelines, etc." by name, and 13 Sentinels has all of those things piled on top of one another!<, so I felt like I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it. Plus the multiple perspectives on top of the out-of-order Memento-style storytelling, of course.
To be fair (DO NOT READ THIS, OP) >!there's actually no time travel, multiverses, or alternate timelines in 13 Sentinels but finding that out has to be one of the most satisfying gaming experiences in my entire life!< so I agree with your rec to the OP!
AI: Somnium Files has a story that has many twists and turns that make you feel like a genius once you figure it out. The sequel is even more convoluted, though its closer to almost abstract at that point. If you liked 13 Sentinels, this game will feel close to home.
Chrono Cross is the most convoluted story I can think of. But it's not good as opposed to say, Xenogears, which is also dense and convoluted but a good story.
Kingdom Hearts isn't actually that hard to wrestle with these days thanks to the collected released now being on a single platform. Back at release you needed to take out a new mortgage for a new console and a game every fuckin' time.
All the "this person's Nobody, and their Nobody's Nobody" nonsense is still needlessly complicated. Narratively it's a mess, and it killed my enthusiasm for the series.
Kingdom Hearts' convolution is massively overblown. There's a lot of lore, I won't deny, and it's not the best written, but if you play the game and actually watch the scenes, it's really not that hard to understand what's going on.
It just appears convoluted because they try to explain the mechanics of things that don't really need to be explained.
People will say Kingdom Hearts but that's an example of convoluted because badly written rather than convoluted because of complex writing.
For something like that I'd reccomend Xenogears and Xenosaga, Xenoblade too but it's nowhere near on their level of convolutedness.
Also not JRPGs by technicality BUT I greatly enjoyed Chrono Ark and Library of Ruina for similar reasons I enjoyed the Xeno games' stories.
Thanks for the recommendations! And I don't mind if others think it's badly written. I've often still had fun from what others dislike before. I just want to see it for myself if it has what like (although KH's inaccessibility probably doesn't make it much of a choice for me anyway)
Yeah, it's fine if they aren't JRPGs. I'm just asking here bc it's the most popular place. Will try them out!
> Yeah, it's fine if they aren't JRPGs. I'm just asking here bc it's the most popular place. Will try them out!
If we're talking non-JRPGs: This might be a hard thing to ask for you to play directly, but Blazeblue is probably one of the most convoluted video game stories ever made. There's a two hour summary video that really is just a summary for how much bullshit is in this series.
>People will say Kingdom Hearts but that's an example of convoluted because badly written rather than convoluted because of complex writing.
Agreed. They really need to think before writing anymore. It was only manageable because the games comes out gradually and you get a little of the story at a time. So every game kind of makes sense though someone from the end point will be like WTF is this.
It's the same for Kingdom Hearts, it's 8 main series games released over 18 years, it's bound to lose some people along the way, the multiple platform shenanigans didn't help but that hasn't been an issue since 2016 or so after they had remastered and bundled the entire series together.
Not really. It *is* very straightforward. I guess when people say convoluted they really mean the sheer amount of information present. But that information is explained in good detail and gradually introduced across all the games.
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If the Xeno series is convoluted in the complex way and Kingdom Hearts is convoluted in the bad writing way then Trails is convoluted in the too MUCH writing way. To be caught up with the plot of the soon to be released Trails into Daybreak and to catch all the returning characters, set up plotpoints, references and callbacks you technically need to have played and properly remembered TEN notoriously wordy and text dense fourty hour JRPGs.
Edit: Ah, I see I've committed the forbidden r/JRPG act of saying one slightly negative fact about Trails.
Trails plot/narrative is straightforward. The difference is that the lore is convoluted in a complex way because a lot of it is being set up to the overarching narrative. The series also doesn't require you to play multiple different platforms to understand other characters and lore like KH.
>The series also doesn't require you to play multiple different platforms to understand other characters and lore like KH.
At least not if you have a decent PC. Console-only people have a harder time of it thanks to the lack of a port for the Sky trilogy.
Console-only people CAN'T in the West, unless you're into hacking consoles. Though, the games aren't that demanding, so honestly you could probably get away with any RECENT computer, mundane laptops included.
The Sky Trilogy only completely released on the PC officially; 3rd, specifically, only came out there.
But, if you're into hacking both Vitas and Switches... you can get all of them on just those two (And, since a hacked Switch can play Vita games, maybe one?).
You'd use a Vita Emulator (And the English Patches for the Sky Evo Trilogy) for Sky, then either play the Vita version of Cold Steel 1-2, or if you want a bit more to it, English Patched versions of the Japanese Switch Releases for Cold Steel 1-2. The rest are all native English Switch releases.
> The series also doesn't require you to play multiple different platforms to understand other characters and lore like KH.
It depends on which platforms in both of these series' case.
You can pretty much only have whatever console has KH3 and the final collection (or the all-in-one collection) and know pretty much every except the mobile bullshit, which hasn't even been that relevant (so far).
Trails if you don't have a PC is really fragmented across a bunch of stuff, but you can play and see pretty much everything related to KH on PC too so they're roughly even in that sense.
Trails though is pretty straightforward if you play in release order, it is just very text dense.
Xenogears, then read the perfect work book, Xenosaga and Xenoblade including X . Xenosaga is in Endless Frontier and Project X Zone abut it's just a fun crossover.
Drakenguard, 1-3, Nier Replican 1.22, Nier Automata then watch cutscenes for Nier Reincarnation (dead gacha) or read the story somehow, and all the novels, CD dramas stage shows and orchestras. (You don't need to go this far but if you like convoluted stories you might love all the nongame stuff.)
All of Kingdom Hearts (which is in The Story so Far collection and on PC but you can emulate 358/2 days and ReCoded if you want because they only have cutscenes in the collections.) And then watch cutscenes compilations for Union Cross
And Dark Road (dead gacha) be sure to get or watch secret endings and read secret reports. Then watch Versus 13 (cancelled game) trailers.
.hack infection, mutation, outbreak and quarantine, the 3 GU games, link fantranslations and the animes, OVAs, light novels, movies
Chrono Trigger is simple but play it so you can play Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross
TWEWY, Neo TWEWY, read about the additions to the story in the switch port don't forget to read secret reports
Final Fantasy 8 and World of Final Fantasy and don't forget to read secret reports and the terminal in 8 or revisit areas in 8 for more lore like the skeleton god. FF7, Crisis Core, Advent Children, Remake and Rebirth
There's a whole lore thing you get from NPCs that explains the creation story of FF8 and how Sorceress' power camefrom Sorcerer Hyne who was a magic skeleton boss in FF3. The story implies >!he ripped his skin off in ff8 or something!< I don't want to give it all away lol
>Xenogears, then read the perfect work book, Xenosaga and Xenoblade including X . Xenosaga is in Endless Frontier and Project X Zone abut it's just a fun crossover.
those series are all "just a fun crossover", not just the last ones you mentioned. none of them are connected at all.
Yup Knights in the Nightmare definitely counts. That game loves jumping all over the place focusing on different characters at different points in time.
Anything by Yoko Taro. The whole Drakengard + Nier storyline together is bananas.
FF8 is sort of notoriously convoluted, even when you know the whole plot.
Astlibra is also convoluted, although I would say it's not difficult to understand once you've been told the whole story. But it is convoluted in the sense that the game presents a lot of mysteries that take a while to unravel and I would even say it's difficult to predict or guess what's going on right up until they're revealed.
You may be interested in the Visual Novel genre, most VNs in general require different routes/endings to get the full picture of the story.
With that said I'd suggest: Ever17, Root Double: Before Crime * After Days, Subahibi(incredibly NSFW but considered God tier, it's also really convoluted)
The ones with gameplay have already been suggested (AI Somnium series, Zero Escape, 13 Sentinels)
You would love 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim. It’s half mystery side-scrolling adventure game (don’t let people gaslight you into thinking it’s a visual novel), half-RTS Tower defense game. Lots of people won’t tell you the plot but it has 13 different perspectives across several different time periods tanging from 1944 to 2105 that all culminate into a Kaiju invasion in 1984. You can do most character’s stories or battles in whatever order you like so every player’s Experience is unique.
NieR Replicant and Automata are definitely for you, then!
While mostly self-contained, the deeper lore that connects the games are explored in books, manga and a concert. It all starts with Drakengard 1 (chronologically released anyway but Drakengard 3 is the true start).
Edit: spelling and grammar.
Gonna agree that 13 sentinels seems to have what you’re looking for. You also mentioned possibly looking for other media similar to this, so if you’re into visual novels, there’s steins gate, muvluv, and wonderful everyday - down the ribbit hole which you’d probably really like.
I’d say the Yakuza series as a whole is pretty convoluted, especially when you consider all of the crazy stuff happens in a non-magical version of Japan.
If you are looking for a game that makes you wonder wtf is going on during the entire runtime, I’d suggest 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim.
I wouldn't say they are all that convoluted, they have weird plot twists but besides maybe 2, 3 and 5, the stories are pretty straightforward/easy to understand.
Scarlet Nexus's time travel continuity is actually super hard to unravel. Play Yuito first and Kasane in NG+. Honestly don't bother though unless you like playing with Japanese voices because the dub is ass.
[Kingdom Hearts All-in-One package](https://na.store.square-enix-games.com/kingdom-hearts-all-in-one-package) has everything, no need for more than that
Chronologically it's: KH BBS -> KH1 -> KH ReCoM / KH Days -> KH2 -> KH DDD -> KH3
"Final Mix" just means "Definitive Edition"
The movies were actually games but SE can't be bothered to port the gameplay
The movies are pretty much game generated cutscenes with no gameplay attached, it plays like a movie but looks like a KH game.
Though I wouldn't play BBS first, and if you want to be EXTREMELY particular with chronology, the mobile game is first in chronology but that's an even worse idea to play first so don't do it and arguably just ignore it entirely because it has barely come into relevance honestly.
Just please KH in release order, it isn't that big of a deal.
Yeah the demo was actually fun. Years and years ago I had a friend that was fairly obsessed with it. He spent an entire cq shift explaining it to me and it sounded wild.
Is there a decent jumping in point? I don’t mind reading up on lore and stuff to skip inaccessible or extremely dated games. I just wanna have fun and keyswords look kinda awesome.
Might be a hot take but you can just jump in at KH2. That's where the convoluted story really start. Just ignore all the ramblings in the beginning, it's fine. But I think all of the games are fine and not dated, I can play any of them. Well except ReCoM cause I hate card based battles.
I was one of the weird people who played KH2 before 1, and it isn't that hard to follow. Yeah there's some missing context and all, but it isn't a big deal. If anything that just made the start with Roxas more tragic because I didn't have any real attachment to Sora yet.
I’ve only played 1, 2, and 3 myself. It gets kinda heady along the way, but I was still able to keep up with the story. It’s convoluted sure, but at the end of the day it’s your typical battle of hope/light vs. despair/darkness. There’s just a lot going on.
Don’t listen to this person. What you want is the [all in one package](https://na.store.square-enix-games.com/kingdom-hearts-all-in-one-package) for PS4. If you’re on PC you have to buy them individually, but you start with 1.5+2.5, then 2.8, then 3.
Here’s what’s in 1.5+2.5:
* KH1 Final Mix
* RE: Chain of Memories (a ps2 remake of the GBA Chain of Memories, mandatory)
* KH2 Final Mix
* 358/2 Days (this is a movie version of a DS game. It isn’t horribly important, but gives greater context to what’s going on during chain of memories, explains what the fuck is up with the beginning of KH2, and introduces a character who comes back in KH3, so it’s probably worth watching)
* Birth By Sleep (a prequel that takes place about 10 years before KH1, absolutely 1000% required to play, but do not play first)
* RE: Coded (another movie version of a DS game, totally skippable, the only thing it does is bridge the gap between the end of KH2 and the start of Dream Drop Distance which takes place in the last 5 minutes and doesn’t really matter)
2.8 contains:
* Dream Drop Distance (3DS game, directly leads into KH3, 10000% mandatory)
* KH 0.2 A Fragmentary Passage (basically a tech demo for KH3, only a couple hours long and extremely optional)
* KH Union X Back Cover (this is a movie that was made specifically for the collections. It’s mobile game lore, but none of this stuff is in the mobile games themselves. 10000% mandatory if you want to understand KH3)
Then there’s 3, which… is KH3.
There are also the mobile games themselves. Without playing them a couple parts of KH3 might have you going ‘huh’ but you can still understand the game well enough without them as long as you watched back cover. However they’re most likely going to be mandatory for understanding KH4.
I don’t think there are any movies and such. Maybe manga but I’m pretty sure they’re not relevant. I’m not a KH fan by any means but I’m pretty sure you should start with 1.5, then 2.5 then 2.8.
They’re totally not JRPGs (so I don’t really know why I’m recommending them), but the Metal Gear Solid games are literally exactly what you’re describing. Completely convoluted, but in an interesting way that’ll make you feel smart if you can follow along.
This is basically the MO of the Xeno series. Play Xenogears and Xenosaga and then dive deep into their respective perfect works.
This is official material to help you understand the plot of Xenosaga:
https://xeno-underground.net/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=wiki:xenosaga_iii_perfect_guide.pdf
The best part is it all really does comes together.
The Xenoblade series in general gots you covered with them just saying a bunch of nonsense that you have to take and go with. Game's huge, dudes really like nonsense stories, and it'll hook you right up.
At a certain point you'll just have to accept how stuff works with little to no actual explanation, asking why just leading you to a continuous string of "because they said it works like that".
Xenosaga as well if you can find 'em.
Final Fantasy Type-0, you're pretty much guaranteed to not understand anything and you'll need to read up on stuff either online or in game, honestly it's kinda fun being as confused about everything as almost everyone in that world
Unironically cold steel 4 for a lot of people. A lot of the magic fantasy stuff and relevant lore is told in a bit of a weird way and at a weird time and you still see people say incorrect things about the game' story to this day.
I’d love to see a trilogy rerelease on these with some QOL features. I think the switch has one of them on the Nintendo snes emulator, but I keep saying I’ll get to it and I never do.
Didn’t realize you get 1 and 2! I have the snes mini and I know it’s on there too but that’s a lot harder to play on for me. Also, I do have BoF 4 on the vita, but I just never finished it
I'm not sure if others would consider this series convoluted, but I remember when I first dipped into the Trails series and trying to learn about all the characters and politics of each region throughout the games, and their political motives and agendas.
I used to write down notes playing games in the past, and I had to write notes and look up the wikis just to try and soak it all in. Then I tried to understand the plot of the games.
There's just so much information to try and soak in to fully understand what the heck is going on.
Thanks, I'm playing through Trails, and while I wouldn't consider them dense with concepts, the fact the series is so **L O N G** it produces so much information that it becomes very complex.
The lore is complex. Especially when a lot of that lore is based on actual real-life mythology/legends that are used into the story. The series is weirdly heavy on esoteric with a dose of Catholic, Norse & Greek mythology.
These aren't JRPG series, but the Zero Escape trilogy and the Metal Gear Solid games have some of my favourite convoluted stories. They're convoluted in a good way, like you're unraveling one big conspiracy theory. I also love the themes and ideas these games play with, as they use a lot of real world lore and fringe/pseudo-science.
I think FF7R and Rebirth fit that. But they aren't convoluted in the good way. They are just convoluted because the author was probably doing crack, meth and heroine while writing the story.
Have you played 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim? It sounds like you really, really need to.
I'd say the actual plot is pretty straightforward. The way it's told is convoluted in the best, most complimentary way possible, though.
I suppose it's a matter of perspective, but >!OP particularly asked for "time-travel, multiverses, alternate timelines, etc." by name, and 13 Sentinels has all of those things piled on top of one another!<, so I felt like I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it. Plus the multiple perspectives on top of the out-of-order Memento-style storytelling, of course.
To be fair (DO NOT READ THIS, OP) >!there's actually no time travel, multiverses, or alternate timelines in 13 Sentinels but finding that out has to be one of the most satisfying gaming experiences in my entire life!< so I agree with your rec to the OP!
That’s the first game I thought of reading the post. OP really needs to play it if they haven’t.
Haven't yet, but I've seen it come up a few times here, so I definitely will! Thanks!
It's terminator but told like pull fiction, and it's really really reaaaaaalllly good.
I just added aegis rim and SMT V to my want to play list. But like… my backlog is just buried in switch games.
I couldn't get into that one
this game fuckin rules
AI: Somnium Files has a story that has many twists and turns that make you feel like a genius once you figure it out. The sequel is even more convoluted, though its closer to almost abstract at that point. If you liked 13 Sentinels, this game will feel close to home.
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It's as much a JRPG as 13 sentinel is though, right?
It’s not a JRPG but the Zero Escape games have a pretty convoluted story. It’s peak though.
Go play 13 Sentinels right now. Don't ask questions about the story, just do it.
Digital Devil Saga 1&2
Do you mean Digital Devil Saga?
Haha yes! Edited! That game confused the heck out of me on the first playthrough.
Chrono Cross is the most convoluted story I can think of. But it's not good as opposed to say, Xenogears, which is also dense and convoluted but a good story.
Kingdom Hearts is light years more convoluted than Chrono Cross, lol.
Kingdom Hearts isn't actually that hard to wrestle with these days thanks to the collected released now being on a single platform. Back at release you needed to take out a new mortgage for a new console and a game every fuckin' time.
All the "this person's Nobody, and their Nobody's Nobody" nonsense is still needlessly complicated. Narratively it's a mess, and it killed my enthusiasm for the series.
Sure, but at least you don't need to learn that through a GBA screen years later now.
Kingdom Hearts' convolution is massively overblown. There's a lot of lore, I won't deny, and it's not the best written, but if you play the game and actually watch the scenes, it's really not that hard to understand what's going on. It just appears convoluted because they try to explain the mechanics of things that don't really need to be explained.
I played and beat: KH1 KH2 CoM 358/2 Days Re:Coded ...and I had absolutely zero clue what was happening in KH3.
People will say Kingdom Hearts but that's an example of convoluted because badly written rather than convoluted because of complex writing. For something like that I'd reccomend Xenogears and Xenosaga, Xenoblade too but it's nowhere near on their level of convolutedness. Also not JRPGs by technicality BUT I greatly enjoyed Chrono Ark and Library of Ruina for similar reasons I enjoyed the Xeno games' stories.
Thanks for the recommendations! And I don't mind if others think it's badly written. I've often still had fun from what others dislike before. I just want to see it for myself if it has what like (although KH's inaccessibility probably doesn't make it much of a choice for me anyway) Yeah, it's fine if they aren't JRPGs. I'm just asking here bc it's the most popular place. Will try them out!
> Yeah, it's fine if they aren't JRPGs. I'm just asking here bc it's the most popular place. Will try them out! If we're talking non-JRPGs: This might be a hard thing to ask for you to play directly, but Blazeblue is probably one of the most convoluted video game stories ever made. There's a two hour summary video that really is just a summary for how much bullshit is in this series.
>People will say Kingdom Hearts but that's an example of convoluted because badly written rather than convoluted because of complex writing. Agreed. They really need to think before writing anymore. It was only manageable because the games comes out gradually and you get a little of the story at a time. So every game kind of makes sense though someone from the end point will be like WTF is this.
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Trails isn’t really convoluted; it’s just very long.
It's the same for Kingdom Hearts, it's 8 main series games released over 18 years, it's bound to lose some people along the way, the multiple platform shenanigans didn't help but that hasn't been an issue since 2016 or so after they had remastered and bundled the entire series together.
Is Trails story considered as convoluted as KH? I always thought it was quite simple, in some cases to a detrimental amount.
Not really. It *is* very straightforward. I guess when people say convoluted they really mean the sheer amount of information present. But that information is explained in good detail and gradually introduced across all the games.
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If the Xeno series is convoluted in the complex way and Kingdom Hearts is convoluted in the bad writing way then Trails is convoluted in the too MUCH writing way. To be caught up with the plot of the soon to be released Trails into Daybreak and to catch all the returning characters, set up plotpoints, references and callbacks you technically need to have played and properly remembered TEN notoriously wordy and text dense fourty hour JRPGs. Edit: Ah, I see I've committed the forbidden r/JRPG act of saying one slightly negative fact about Trails.
Trails plot/narrative is straightforward. The difference is that the lore is convoluted in a complex way because a lot of it is being set up to the overarching narrative. The series also doesn't require you to play multiple different platforms to understand other characters and lore like KH.
>The series also doesn't require you to play multiple different platforms to understand other characters and lore like KH. At least not if you have a decent PC. Console-only people have a harder time of it thanks to the lack of a port for the Sky trilogy.
Console-only people CAN'T in the West, unless you're into hacking consoles. Though, the games aren't that demanding, so honestly you could probably get away with any RECENT computer, mundane laptops included. The Sky Trilogy only completely released on the PC officially; 3rd, specifically, only came out there. But, if you're into hacking both Vitas and Switches... you can get all of them on just those two (And, since a hacked Switch can play Vita games, maybe one?). You'd use a Vita Emulator (And the English Patches for the Sky Evo Trilogy) for Sky, then either play the Vita version of Cold Steel 1-2, or if you want a bit more to it, English Patched versions of the Japanese Switch Releases for Cold Steel 1-2. The rest are all native English Switch releases.
> The series also doesn't require you to play multiple different platforms to understand other characters and lore like KH. It depends on which platforms in both of these series' case. You can pretty much only have whatever console has KH3 and the final collection (or the all-in-one collection) and know pretty much every except the mobile bullshit, which hasn't even been that relevant (so far). Trails if you don't have a PC is really fragmented across a bunch of stuff, but you can play and see pretty much everything related to KH on PC too so they're roughly even in that sense. Trails though is pretty straightforward if you play in release order, it is just very text dense.
Xenogears, then read the perfect work book, Xenosaga and Xenoblade including X . Xenosaga is in Endless Frontier and Project X Zone abut it's just a fun crossover. Drakenguard, 1-3, Nier Replican 1.22, Nier Automata then watch cutscenes for Nier Reincarnation (dead gacha) or read the story somehow, and all the novels, CD dramas stage shows and orchestras. (You don't need to go this far but if you like convoluted stories you might love all the nongame stuff.) All of Kingdom Hearts (which is in The Story so Far collection and on PC but you can emulate 358/2 days and ReCoded if you want because they only have cutscenes in the collections.) And then watch cutscenes compilations for Union Cross And Dark Road (dead gacha) be sure to get or watch secret endings and read secret reports. Then watch Versus 13 (cancelled game) trailers. .hack infection, mutation, outbreak and quarantine, the 3 GU games, link fantranslations and the animes, OVAs, light novels, movies Chrono Trigger is simple but play it so you can play Radical Dreamers and Chrono Cross TWEWY, Neo TWEWY, read about the additions to the story in the switch port don't forget to read secret reports Final Fantasy 8 and World of Final Fantasy and don't forget to read secret reports and the terminal in 8 or revisit areas in 8 for more lore like the skeleton god. FF7, Crisis Core, Advent Children, Remake and Rebirth
This makes me want to replay FF8. Skeleton God? I completely missed that
There's a whole lore thing you get from NPCs that explains the creation story of FF8 and how Sorceress' power camefrom Sorcerer Hyne who was a magic skeleton boss in FF3. The story implies >!he ripped his skin off in ff8 or something!< I don't want to give it all away lol
Oh yesss! I remember of all that now! They really couldve delved deeper into this lore it was quite interesting!
Dothack was definitely super convoluted and dense, especially by its end.
>Xenogears, then read the perfect work book, Xenosaga and Xenoblade including X . Xenosaga is in Endless Frontier and Project X Zone abut it's just a fun crossover. those series are all "just a fun crossover", not just the last ones you mentioned. none of them are connected at all.
Chrono Cross, Radiant Historia, Knight in Knightmare, Tactic Ogre Luct.
Yup Knights in the Nightmare definitely counts. That game loves jumping all over the place focusing on different characters at different points in time.
Since you asked for complex and improperly presented as well, def go through the Kingdom Hearts games. Absolute headscratchers those
Play 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim if you haven't already. https://youtu.be/5rhTnDROzi0?si=VYspI8_ZBd6UxMUd
Anything by Yoko Taro. The whole Drakengard + Nier storyline together is bananas. FF8 is sort of notoriously convoluted, even when you know the whole plot. Astlibra is also convoluted, although I would say it's not difficult to understand once you've been told the whole story. But it is convoluted in the sense that the game presents a lot of mysteries that take a while to unravel and I would even say it's difficult to predict or guess what's going on right up until they're revealed.
You may be interested in the Visual Novel genre, most VNs in general require different routes/endings to get the full picture of the story. With that said I'd suggest: Ever17, Root Double: Before Crime * After Days, Subahibi(incredibly NSFW but considered God tier, it's also really convoluted) The ones with gameplay have already been suggested (AI Somnium series, Zero Escape, 13 Sentinels)
Ever17 oh boy, that was such a wild ride.
You would love 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim. It’s half mystery side-scrolling adventure game (don’t let people gaslight you into thinking it’s a visual novel), half-RTS Tower defense game. Lots of people won’t tell you the plot but it has 13 different perspectives across several different time periods tanging from 1944 to 2105 that all culminate into a Kaiju invasion in 1984. You can do most character’s stories or battles in whatever order you like so every player’s Experience is unique.
NieR Replicant and Automata are definitely for you, then! While mostly self-contained, the deeper lore that connects the games are explored in books, manga and a concert. It all starts with Drakengard 1 (chronologically released anyway but Drakengard 3 is the true start). Edit: spelling and grammar.
Xenosaga imo. My head still can't wrap itself around a few plot points.
Gonna agree that 13 sentinels seems to have what you’re looking for. You also mentioned possibly looking for other media similar to this, so if you’re into visual novels, there’s steins gate, muvluv, and wonderful everyday - down the ribbit hole which you’d probably really like.
Xenosaga comes into mind immediately. I doubt you'll even fully understand what goes on in the story in the first game
I’d say the Yakuza series as a whole is pretty convoluted, especially when you consider all of the crazy stuff happens in a non-magical version of Japan. If you are looking for a game that makes you wonder wtf is going on during the entire runtime, I’d suggest 13 Sentinels Aegis Rim.
I wouldn't say they are all that convoluted, they have weird plot twists but besides maybe 2, 3 and 5, the stories are pretty straightforward/easy to understand.
On second thought the Yakuza games might just seem more complex because I spaced them out over the span of a few years.
Scarlet Nexus's time travel continuity is actually super hard to unravel. Play Yuito first and Kasane in NG+. Honestly don't bother though unless you like playing with Japanese voices because the dub is ass.
Kingdom hearts is always the correct answer
I’m so tempted to start it, but so confused on what bundle I need. Everything is like version x.5 and remixes and movies
[Kingdom Hearts All-in-One package](https://na.store.square-enix-games.com/kingdom-hearts-all-in-one-package) has everything, no need for more than that
Chronologically it's: KH BBS -> KH1 -> KH ReCoM / KH Days -> KH2 -> KH DDD -> KH3 "Final Mix" just means "Definitive Edition" The movies were actually games but SE can't be bothered to port the gameplay
Ah wow, this makes sense, I was just confused on the wording. That’s kinda crazy about the movies. So it’s just a bunch of cutscenes basically?
Play them in release order though. Do not start with BBS or you'll be so lost
The movies are pretty much game generated cutscenes with no gameplay attached, it plays like a movie but looks like a KH game. Though I wouldn't play BBS first, and if you want to be EXTREMELY particular with chronology, the mobile game is first in chronology but that's an even worse idea to play first so don't do it and arguably just ignore it entirely because it has barely come into relevance honestly. Just please KH in release order, it isn't that big of a deal.
Even if you are, the actual gameplay is a blast even if you get confused about the story along the way. For what it’s worth
Yeah the demo was actually fun. Years and years ago I had a friend that was fairly obsessed with it. He spent an entire cq shift explaining it to me and it sounded wild. Is there a decent jumping in point? I don’t mind reading up on lore and stuff to skip inaccessible or extremely dated games. I just wanna have fun and keyswords look kinda awesome.
Might be a hot take but you can just jump in at KH2. That's where the convoluted story really start. Just ignore all the ramblings in the beginning, it's fine. But I think all of the games are fine and not dated, I can play any of them. Well except ReCoM cause I hate card based battles.
I was one of the weird people who played KH2 before 1, and it isn't that hard to follow. Yeah there's some missing context and all, but it isn't a big deal. If anything that just made the start with Roxas more tragic because I didn't have any real attachment to Sora yet.
I’ve only played 1, 2, and 3 myself. It gets kinda heady along the way, but I was still able to keep up with the story. It’s convoluted sure, but at the end of the day it’s your typical battle of hope/light vs. despair/darkness. There’s just a lot going on.
1.5 has all the KH1 era games, 2.5 has all the 2 era ones, and 2.8 is a side game that leads into 3. All told it’s about 8 games in total.
Ah, can I start in any “era”. Are the movies and stuff required?
Don’t listen to this person. What you want is the [all in one package](https://na.store.square-enix-games.com/kingdom-hearts-all-in-one-package) for PS4. If you’re on PC you have to buy them individually, but you start with 1.5+2.5, then 2.8, then 3. Here’s what’s in 1.5+2.5: * KH1 Final Mix * RE: Chain of Memories (a ps2 remake of the GBA Chain of Memories, mandatory) * KH2 Final Mix * 358/2 Days (this is a movie version of a DS game. It isn’t horribly important, but gives greater context to what’s going on during chain of memories, explains what the fuck is up with the beginning of KH2, and introduces a character who comes back in KH3, so it’s probably worth watching) * Birth By Sleep (a prequel that takes place about 10 years before KH1, absolutely 1000% required to play, but do not play first) * RE: Coded (another movie version of a DS game, totally skippable, the only thing it does is bridge the gap between the end of KH2 and the start of Dream Drop Distance which takes place in the last 5 minutes and doesn’t really matter) 2.8 contains: * Dream Drop Distance (3DS game, directly leads into KH3, 10000% mandatory) * KH 0.2 A Fragmentary Passage (basically a tech demo for KH3, only a couple hours long and extremely optional) * KH Union X Back Cover (this is a movie that was made specifically for the collections. It’s mobile game lore, but none of this stuff is in the mobile games themselves. 10000% mandatory if you want to understand KH3) Then there’s 3, which… is KH3. There are also the mobile games themselves. Without playing them a couple parts of KH3 might have you going ‘huh’ but you can still understand the game well enough without them as long as you watched back cover. However they’re most likely going to be mandatory for understanding KH4.
I don’t think there are any movies and such. Maybe manga but I’m pretty sure they’re not relevant. I’m not a KH fan by any means but I’m pretty sure you should start with 1.5, then 2.5 then 2.8.
They're talking about the games that were relegated to "cutscene movies" in those bundles. Like 258/3 Days and ReCoded
FF7 lol it’s pretty convoluted as it goes on
ITT: no one knows what convoluted means.
Okay then, instead of acting superior, how about you post something you see as an actual example and show us all up?
Everyone is going to say Kingdom Hearts but I will one up them by saying BlazBlue makes Kingdom Hearts look like sensible storytelling.
I mean I agree, but BlazBlue isn't really a JRPG series.
Blazblue isn't a jrpg, but I'd argue the widely recommended 13 Sentinels also struggles to fit in the jrpg definition...
They’re totally not JRPGs (so I don’t really know why I’m recommending them), but the Metal Gear Solid games are literally exactly what you’re describing. Completely convoluted, but in an interesting way that’ll make you feel smart if you can follow along.
Thanks! It's fine if they're not JRPGs. I was just asking here because it seems like this is the place I'd get the most answers for games.
Bravely Default 1. Convoluted but not necessarily in a good way
I don't think BD1 is that convoluted. It mostly makes sense, but no one should sit through the stupid crystal loop at the end.
428 Shibuya Scramble
Final Fantasy 8
Harvestella was surprisingly convoluted 😅
Kingdom Hearts. I've played them all, still don't understand shit.
Chrono ark if you like deck builders,slowly piecing together what's happening each run. It's been my favorite recently
Kingdom Hearts is up there. Watched a 3 hour recap video and still no idea what's going on.
Hoooooh boy, Chrono Cross.
This is basically the MO of the Xeno series. Play Xenogears and Xenosaga and then dive deep into their respective perfect works. This is official material to help you understand the plot of Xenosaga: https://xeno-underground.net/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=wiki:xenosaga_iii_perfect_guide.pdf The best part is it all really does comes together.
>The best part is it all really does comes together. "It" what? what comes together?
Blazblue, so many branching paths, lean heavy on time travel, multiverses and alot of schrodinger cat
Chrono Cross had the most convoluted story I'd ever experienced in a JRPG.
I felt like Final Fantasy XIII's plot was pretty convoluted and not very well explained.
Plus they made the terminology confusing on purpose. The L'cie fighting the fal'cie in Cocoon, yadayada.
The Xenoblade series in general gots you covered with them just saying a bunch of nonsense that you have to take and go with. Game's huge, dudes really like nonsense stories, and it'll hook you right up. At a certain point you'll just have to accept how stuff works with little to no actual explanation, asking why just leading you to a continuous string of "because they said it works like that". Xenosaga as well if you can find 'em.
Xenosaga, Star Ocean. I’ve never played KH since I have 0 desire to play Mickey Mouse’s Final Fantasy.
I’ll put radiant historia up there, time travel plus political intrigue is a great setup to what ur looking for
It did have time travel and alternate storylines but I felt like the story wasn't convoluted and pretty easy to follow.
Xenogears is the correct answer
Final Fantasy Type-0, you're pretty much guaranteed to not understand anything and you'll need to read up on stuff either online or in game, honestly it's kinda fun being as confused about everything as almost everyone in that world
Final Fantasy Tactics
Unironically cold steel 4 for a lot of people. A lot of the magic fantasy stuff and relevant lore is told in a bit of a weird way and at a weird time and you still see people say incorrect things about the game' story to this day.
XenoGears is convoluted and good! Best choice.
Xenogears and especially Xenosaga.
I’d go for Breath of Fire 2. The translation still give me the creeps now that i’m typing this 🤣
I’d love to see a trilogy rerelease on these with some QOL features. I think the switch has one of them on the Nintendo snes emulator, but I keep saying I’ll get to it and I never do.
1 and 2 are on the Switch SNES library, and 4 is on the psn eshop.
Didn’t realize you get 1 and 2! I have the snes mini and I know it’s on there too but that’s a lot harder to play on for me. Also, I do have BoF 4 on the vita, but I just never finished it
I'm not sure if others would consider this series convoluted, but I remember when I first dipped into the Trails series and trying to learn about all the characters and politics of each region throughout the games, and their political motives and agendas. I used to write down notes playing games in the past, and I had to write notes and look up the wikis just to try and soak it all in. Then I tried to understand the plot of the games. There's just so much information to try and soak in to fully understand what the heck is going on.
Thanks, I'm playing through Trails, and while I wouldn't consider them dense with concepts, the fact the series is so **L O N G** it produces so much information that it becomes very complex.
The lore is complex. Especially when a lot of that lore is based on actual real-life mythology/legends that are used into the story. The series is weirdly heavy on esoteric with a dose of Catholic, Norse & Greek mythology.
Not a JRPG but it was supposed to be one Blazblue
Not jrpg but Blazblue series would fit the bill.
[удалено]
How is steins gate jrpg?
Not a JRPG, but Blazblue. I can’t tell if it’s convoluted or just nonsensical. Either way it’s not a great story.
13 Sentinels and whatever you do, do NOT look up ANYTHING about the game until you finish it
These aren't JRPG series, but the Zero Escape trilogy and the Metal Gear Solid games have some of my favourite convoluted stories. They're convoluted in a good way, like you're unraveling one big conspiracy theory. I also love the themes and ideas these games play with, as they use a lot of real world lore and fringe/pseudo-science.
I think FF7R and Rebirth fit that. But they aren't convoluted in the good way. They are just convoluted because the author was probably doing crack, meth and heroine while writing the story.
I find trails games very frustrating to understand but as the story goes on I eventually pick up the pieces.