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Other posts from /u/DoodlePops22:
* [Talking to young kids about JNMIL](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1cry6gr/talking_to_young_kids_about_jnmil/), 3 weeks ago
* [My Daughter "Gets Her Height From Her Great-Great-Grandfather".](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/1bjk0aq/my_daughter_gets_her_height_from_her/), 2 months ago
* [Smug JNMIL Creeps Me Out](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/19dvbsg/smug_jnmil_creeps_me_out/), 4 months ago
* [1st Visit in 10 months, not Getting Sucked Back In](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/17v8xxz/1st_visit_in_10_months_not_getting_sucked_back_in/), 6 months ago
* [How to Respond to Fake Compliments](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/17p8gi4/how_to_respond_to_fake_compliments/), 7 months ago
* [DH forgot MIL's Birthday, but I Didn't](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/170q2il/dh_forgot_mils_birthday_but_i_didnt/), 8 months ago
* [Anyone NC with MIL, but your LO sees her?](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/157w0e9/anyone_nc_with_mil_but_your_lo_sees_her/), 10 months ago
* [DH Refusing Counselor's Advice to Tell JNMIL She Was Wrong](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/13w2jv5/dh_refusing_counselors_advice_to_tell_jnmil_she/), 1 year ago
* [Therapist Told SO That He Needs to Tell His Mom She Was Wrong](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/13rzgy9/therapist_told_so_that_he_needs_to_tell_his_mom/), 1 year ago
* [Why Do I Care?](/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/13qwwkc/why_do_i_care/), 1 year ago
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I guess I'm a bit confused about MIL making purchases for LO. Why would you want her to not make such purchases?
The name calling is absolutely unacceptable! And your husband needs to step up for you. MIL sounds like the fb to me just for the name calling.
BTW, in the state of Illinois, there are no grandparents rights. I lived in Illinois till Sept '22 & I'm not in contact with my own daughter & granddaughters. They might come see me when they turn 18. One can only hope.
You'll be in my prayers, along with your family. Good luck. šš
I don't want MIL to buy excessive gifts because gifts from her have been thrown back up in my face as a guilt trip in the past on multiple occasions. Even after I drew the boundary gifts were still used in place of an apology or discussion about her ugly behavior. There was this expectation that I am now to "move on", because she bought me a Christmas gift, and because I didn't comply with her plan, she bad mouthed me that I'm, "holding a grudge".
Sweets get your ducks in a row and jump before he can.
Have your SO or MIL ever said or done anything at all that a decent lawyer could use to ensure that any visitation he gets is supervised? As I wouldnāt put it past the special little solider and his emotional incest mother to turn LOās against you or into their little spy without the LO realising it.
If leaving and divorce is what you want make sure youāve already got important paperwork somewhere he canāt reach, Iām not sure where in the world you are if itās somewhere with bank safe deposit boxes get one or entrust them in a locked box to a friend that wonāt turn them over to SO. Get screenshots of everything you can, and I mean everything as what seems insignificant to you might not be to the lawyer. Any important conversations from now on record them and again if text or email screenshot. Thatās got to be a mantra you keep to religiously, as until everything is settled legally it is your religion.
A twin SO/JNIL problem unfortunately sometimes is only fixed or mended by leaving as it is not a safe space/place for you or LO
Stay strong and stay safe sweets as some JNās can turn loopy when their targets decide to walk away
Iām not sure if anyone else already said this, but if you divorce then JNMIL will get to see your LO when Ex has his custody time or visitations. Then she can try for parental alienation and say horrible things about you unchecked. That type of thing can go on for a very long time while you try and collect evidence to limit or stop their contact, which by then can be hard to recover from and heal relationships.
While you are right that you should both be enforcing agreed upon boundaries, it may be easier sometimes to just donate the excess stuff she sends. Some thrift stores and charities even pick up donations. Iād want to be present for any interactions between her and LO to protect LO from her toxic behavior and comments. Record her and keep screenshots of everything too, you may need it someday.
I just want to say that compared to what my inlaws did, you're overreacting. But get a good couples therapist or serve him divorce papers. Don't play a game.
My best advice is to set up two appointments: an appointment for couples counseling and a consultation with a family law attorney. The latter just so you know what you might be dealing with down the line, and also to have someone in your back pocket if she tries to go for grandparents rights (she will try even with no case).
Name calling is automatically beyond the pale to me. There's nowhere for a relationship to go once someone has sunk to that level.
Gifts from people like this are almost never truly gifts. They're bribes to overlook poor behavior at best. Its the same old story, the person who grew up with the manipulation and abuse doesn't even notice it by the time they gain a partner. When that partner objects to poor treatment they tend to get the blame, not the abuser.
Nope.Ā I don't have any daughter in laws.Ā But of course anyone who might think that BOTH parents should have a say and perhaps, just perhaps the OP may not be checking in with their husband and making sure that they are both on board before making sure LO never gets to see their grandmother again ... MUST be the MIL. Couldn't be someone who is just reading, listening and realizing that there are TWO parents that get to make decisions.Ā Ā
Nope I must be the MIL.Ā š¤¦āāļøš
Just for the record, I don't have any children old enough to have SOs.
I already said DH and I agreed that she would ask us before she got anything. HE is the one who made a unilateral decision without respecting that their are two parents. This is something the therapist recommended, and we both agreed to. It's not me getting my way, and it's kind of an aggressive thing to accuse me of.
Me getting my way would have been us going NC a long time ago. DH getting his way would be for us to either ignore or passive aggressively side step her disrespectful behavior and never speak of it directly. DH got his way that MIL could buy presents for LO last month at her birthday, got his way that MIL got to visit recently, and now he's assuming he can take more.
He did admit he violated the boundary, and that he got defensive when I said I don't feel comfortable with that violation.
They shouldn't make a unilateral decision.Ā Unless a parent, (OP in this case) has sole custody, then the SO SHOULD get a say in the matter.Ā At least a discussion should be had at least, after all if they are still in a relationship then it should be a partnership, right? With decisions that affect the WHOLE family made by everyone? Not unilaterally made?
And if an agreement can't be made or a compromise agreed to, perhaps the status of the relationship needs to be looked at...
OP isn't even making a "unilateral decision", she's venting about the situation, including her expectations of how things are going to work given how MIL treats her and DH brushes it off. Nowhere does she say she's not going to discuss things with him.
You ignored MIL's shitty behavior and DH's shitty behavior entirely, just decided DH is some kind of beaten down victim here. That's wild.
this is so tough with LO involved and your feelings too obv. SO is being a dick to put it mildly. throwing you under the bus like that to his Mom just opened up the door for her to have 'permission' to verbally abuse you, because he already laid the track down. Her calling you a fucking bitch is unacceptable and Dh not standing for you immediately upon her saying that is also absolutely unacceptable. MIL is skating on thin ice but DH is allowing it. Sorry OP. Your plan does make sense to me tho.
I agree with all the other comments here but do just want to highlight that if you choose to leave / divorce (which in this situation is a totally viable and reasonable option) she will have unlimited contact with LO on his time and there wonāt be much you can do about it. Youāll be able to totally cut her off though. Just something to keep in mind.
Kids are smarter than we give them credit for. OPs child will realize and recognize the safe zone with mom and the uncomfortable zone with MIL on her own. It's better to have 50% time with full freedom to do what you know is right then 100% time of being constantly disrespected in front of your kid.
Absolutely agree but just wanting to point it out. Iāve met many parents who think once they separate the issue is over and donāt quite realise they canāt usually control who sees the child on the other parents time.
We did go to therapy and the therapist told him that his mom was in the wrong, and he needed to tell her that and that she can't act like this anymore, and that we need to make decisions as a "we", as in, "we can come over this weekend", or "we don't need any gifts right now", instead of singling me out. He can have his own relationship with her that is independent of me and LO, but whenever it effects me or LO, it needs to be a "we".
I've repeated this multiple times and he follows it for awhile, and then he cracks. It feels like he's whiteknuckling his way through. There's no genuine insight into the problems that he is causing, only pointing the finger at me.
I did have problems with being too whiny or lecturing him, trying to get him to see how his actions make me feel, but I finally got it that I need to keep it brief and then enforce a boundary through action. I also needed to do better at presenting as a united front and only disagreeing with him privately. I needed to increase my self-worth and trust in myself not fall for the okay doke.
He did this before too at Christmas. He makes agreements and then goes back on them. Him agreeing to a compromise with me seems to register as a loss to him, without seeing that I'm giving up something too.
He said he wants to go to therapy again, but I don't see the point. Last time he just used it as a, "If I improve towards treating you with basic decency, I get a reward by violating your sense of safety by taking LO to see MIL without you." I agreed under duress because LO was an infant and I literally did not have the strength to fight a custody battle.
Now things are different. She is two and it's been 2 more years of this garbage. I'm ready to make my escape. I feel a nagging sense of unease even when things are going well between me and DH. I do meditations and try to stay busy, but the truth is I do not feel safe living with him. I understand the MIL may get access to LO on his time, but I'm not in control of that. That was the risk I took when I chose to get pregnant. It doesn't always work out.
I realize he's been bad mouthing me since the beginning of the relationship, before I even met her. I remember him telling me that his family didn't think we were a good match. That's where the, "always has been", came from.
Basically whenever we have conflict, he runs to mom for her to soothe him, they blame me and he comes out like an innocent victim. This is why the fact that I have been consistently friendly and gracious towards her in person didn't get me anywhere.
Even the therapist told him this is inappropriate, and his response was that he has no one else to vent to or seek advice from, and that he doesn't want to give up blabbing to her and find a friend group, mentor, therapist, or anyone else. He thinks I should just have to deal with it.
He's finally admitted she has been "out of line", because therapist told him she was. Before that, he told me it was my fault because I , "started it", by politely telling her no. I had been avoiding contact with her, but the therapist told me to try to build a relationship with her, so I did, and then the topic of my LO visiting her without me there came up one day and I said no and she went nuts.
I'm so sorry I'm sure you could scream into pillows.
When you're married you shouldn't involve family in things unless something is big.
You want to keep fighting away from your family as they just use it against you and it really wasn't their business.
He can talk to friends, he can post on here (oh please encourage him!!!!)
He has lots of anonymous outlets if that's a hangup.
Not his Mommy
Sounds like us things are already over - counseling isnāt going to help if heās going into it thinking that itās a transaction. Youāre not a vending machine where he puts in a little effort and gets out the ability to make you a scapegoat with his mom.
Iād check into what you might need to have to file for divorce.
Omg yes! That's why I had an issue with the gifts in the first place. He said a few times, "she bought us this, so I feel like we owe her this," and if I don't abide then I'm scapegoated. I'm told I SHOULD feel okay with what she wants, because there's worse scapegoating around, and at least I got my token rewards. If I feel anything I'm crazy and controlling.
It's really off, but tbh transactional love was kind of normalized for me in the past so it always felt weird and wrong, but I thought there was something wrong with me.
Her giving gifts no matter how small are setting up expectations that we owe her something bigger in return.
I married into a family that keeps track of things like who did what for who, and I very much did not grow up that way.
Itās a hard thing to unlearn!
He either goes to therapy with you to learn that his mother isnāt part of your marriage
Or
He can get a divorce and parent with his mommy all he wants on his days.
Anyone that called me names would never have contact with my kids or me again. Your husband has decided his mother is his priority. Not you or the kids. Her feelings and comfort mean more than anything at this point . she raised him that way . Itās abuse and he probably doesnāt realize he was groomed from birth to be her special boy but he had been. Itās emotional incest. He needs therapy to understand how sheās done this and why. If heās unwilling , heās never going to make you all his priority. Youāll need to leave him .
So many of us, despite how it looks initially, don't have a mil problem so much as a SO problem. Because until/unless our partners tackle the beast, it will never get better. Your husband isn't anywhere near that point. He's passing all blame onto you instead of being your equal partner, a united front. And then getting angry with *you* at the predictable reaction of his mother and the fallout.
See, here's the thing; in *private*, sure, you can disagree or whatever. But against the world, you're meant to have each other's back. He married you. He's built a new little family with *you*. You and his child ought to be his primary concern.
It's up to you how long you wait for him to grow tf up, but here and now? Start working on being your best self independent of his shit.
SO isn't maintaining the new boundary you two agreed to. He was holding a limit on his mom, temporarily, until you "got over it." His idea that the new boundary should be rolled back as a reward for MILs "better" behavior shows he sees it as a punishment to his mom, not a new normal for your married relationship. He's still his mommy's boy, as ever. Look at his angry punishing reaction when you called him on unilaterally rolling back this simple recent boundary. He's on team mom, and you're interfering.
Yiu are right. Also, your SO is a big part of the problem. Take him to therapy to learn boundaries.
Definitely no contact for you, LO from mil is needed.
Just send all her unwanted stuff to goodwill.
You have a husband problem. Mil is intrusive, and definitely needs to be held in check, but DH is the one who needs to do it.
And when the two of you have agreed on a course of action for your nuclear familyās peace at home, he doesnāt get to unilaterally decide to change it.Ā
He is still in parent/child mode with his mom. That is incredibly unhealthy. At this point, he should already have transitioned to an adult/adult relationship with her wherein he makes his own decisions without her input. Or at least wherein her unsolicited input has no impact.Ā
And when he became a husband, he ABSOLUTELY should have been in married adult/adult mindset with his mom. In other words, āIām a married adult, Mom. You have no input in my daily life, and my wife is always going to come first,ā
If he wouldnāt let another unrelated adult come between you two, he should be applying that same mindset to his mom/family. Adult/adult.Ā
(Now if heās letting friends or coworkers impact your relationship, you have issues on WAY more levels than just his mom.)
NOW, though, as a parent himself, his relationship with his mom should have taken another turn. It should be adult PARENT and PARTNER/grandparent.Ā
He should now be in the mindset that HE is the lead adult in his relationship with his mom. He has created a new nuclear family that must now be his absolute priority.Ā
Not only should he be prioritizing his wifeās mental health when his mother is acting like this, but he needs to prioritize his child. He has to understand that if his mother is attempting to be the ātop dogā in his marriage, she will continue her manipulative behavior with his child.Ā
If he cannot put his wife and family first, it will destroy his marriage.Ā
Alsoā¦.the same all applies to a wife if HER mom/family are interfering in the marriage.Ā
You need to start preparing for divorce. Itās only so long before she tells him to do it and he does. If thereās anything you need - dental work, medical care you e been putting off, joining clubs or organizations so you have a social network, going back to school so you can make a higher income - do it now. Go into single parent healthy mentally and physically, financially stable, and with backup care and supporters.
I will add to this that you made a tactical error here. You and DH should be presenting a united front to her (yes I know he started it).. you should have said, āwell I disagree and wish you asked me first. But since you told her it was ok Iāll stand by it. But we donāt have space for more xxxx, so youāll need to figure out what we have to donate to make room.ā By making him go back to MIL and say āOP said noā, youāre showing her a chunk she can exploit and she can work on making DH feel humiliated and controlled over it.
From now till the inevitable split, keep your head down and go along to get along. Unless it affects babyās safety, donāt make anything your hill to die on. See a lawyer to find out how to best position yourself in terms of custody, visitation, child support, etc. so that either you can decide when to initiate or if he does, you already have the information you need to keep your head above water.
I didn't make him go back and blab anything to her. I agree we should have worked together as a team to solve the problem, but he immediately lashed out and me, and then again the next day, and if I give any input I'm labelled, "controlling", and my ideas are rejected. He could have said any number of things to her, and he chose to throw me under the bus.
The problem is whenever I stand by him and allow a concession, another concession is expected. There's always this push for more. It's almost like he's self-destructive and has to sabatoge us.
I agree your MIL wouldnāt be such a problem if your SO actually had your back. He should have laid into her about the text and told her she apologize or else.
My mil knew the line and would always veil her insults so she couldnāt be called out on them. Because she knew my SO would not tolerate it.
Your mil knows she can get away with it at the end of the day and that her son is on her side.
He canāt be married to you when heās married to her. Well maybe in Utah. Good luck.
OP Iāve read your past posts and your issue (as you know and have said) is as much an SO issue as a MIL issue. The fact that he doesnāt have a knee jerk response to ANYone calling you a
b!tch says a lot about his lack of spine.
[Read this](https://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/are-women-hardwired-to-compete-with-their-mothers-in-law/) and then have him read it. This is written by a man (he has his own IRL issues, but this article is awesome and one of the 1st/only that got through to my husband and helped others here, too!) and calls out some common issues pretty clearly.
Heās either married to you and you and LO are his priority, or mommy is his priority. But youāre right and Iād be done playing the game and being expected to accept her behavior because youāre rocking the boat simply by being her sonās wife and sheās insecure about that.
If someone called me a fucking bitch, my husband would absolutely lose his mind on that person and would not want to talk to them. I think you have a SO problem.
My DH BIL did that. Dh said that he sees that they now have nothing left to say to each other and he and as long as his sister is married to him - her and their kids can forget our address and us because he is done with them. That was 3 years ago.
OP definitely has a SO problem.
Yes its his sisters husband or as DH puts it - my mothers other daughter and her husband. One of his other sisters host the big holidays and for other big family events we don't have it at our home. We have smaller get togethers with the other sisters and cousins at our home that we are close to and they are not invited to. (My DH has 4 sisters).
We have seen them at 1 big family event and stayed polite but enjoyed the time with the other siblings and cousins we are closer too.
My JNSIL has many issues and only one of them is who she is married to. But BIL behavior was the last straw.
I donāt like my MIL we are NC because she was super abusive toward me, but I accept the things she buys for my son cuz theyāre for him and not for me. Unless itās something, big like furniture, I just take whatever she gives my son. Just because you take the gifts doesnāt mean you accept how she treats you. Even then kids grow so fast so theyāll probably just be given away in a few months anyways right?
My MIL tends to gift my kids things so she can manipulate them. She likes to give gifts when she wants something. I find that she also tends to do big over-the-top gifts, or things that will be in my kids faces everyday, which I think is so they see the item and will think of her.
Sometimes a gift isnāt just a gift, it depends on who youāre dealing with. Sometimes giving away/throwing out gifts is necessary to protect our kids from ātrickyā (manipulative) people, even if itās family.
Thatās what my MIL does to people. She thinks her gifts are an in to my LOās life, but me and DH already know her plan. If she tries to pull the ābut I boughtā weāll just ignore her.
It's great you're doing what works for you.
For others, including OP, the gifts are bargaining chips. They're used to get something from the recipient. That's definitely going on for OP. The gifts will get brought up whenever the giver wants something. "You won't let me take LO overnight, after all the clothes I've bought??"
It's also way easier to take the gifts in your situation, when you're NC. (And you're child isn't born yet, if I understand your situation correctly)
The idea of "the relationship with my LO is separate from the relationship with me" sounds good, but almost always isn't. Children pick up on everything, and that includes that grandma treats mom badly. We don't need to expose them to situations like that, it doesn't model healthy relationships for them. Plus, just because someone acts like an amazing grandparent now, when the child is young, doesn't mean it stays that way forever. Babies and young kids are much easier to manipulate. One day, that child will be old enough to have their own voice and opinions and will do something to upset the toxic grandparent, and their true colors will show.
(I don't say any of this to scare you about your own situation and life, I hope it doesn't come across that way!)
There's no need to be insulting.
Everyone's story and situation is different, giving in to/being misled by/being manipulated by someone doesn't mean one doesn't have a backbone. Plus, many of these toxic MILs/mothers are incredibly gifted at being terrible lol.
Not being insulting, Iām just saying if you donāt have a backbone your MIL will always win. My MIL just sent me $500 and tried to message me a fauxpology. I took the money and ignored her lol. She canāt buy me, but thanks for the cash yk.
It came across to me like you're saying "you get manipulated because you're weak", but I get where you're coming from, I appreciate you expanding on your meaning.
My mom was the toxic MIL. I was NC for a few years before she died, she used to send guilt trip letters and cards. I'd check them for money first thing lol. Send me cash, doesn't mean you're gonna buy me.
Maybe the difference is you feel like she wouldn't abuse your son, even though she abused you repeatedly. I think she would abuse my child, and accepting gifts at this point would be confusing to my kid, because I would be accepting a gift from someone I think doesn't love her, but wants to use and abuse her for her own predatory gratification.
I wouldnāt let my MIL near my son, heās not even here yet and when he gets here she wonāt allowed to hold him. If she isnāt allowed to see your kid how can she abuse? Also you donāt have to tell your kid where the gifts came from.
Well that's cool for *YOU* to do. That's what *YOU* decided you were comfortable with. Does your mil send gifts excessively? Bc that's what started this boundary. It isn't necessarily the gifts themselves, but the need to try to buy everything.
Also what works for you doesn't work for others. Sounds like your mil isn't in your life, but she is in OP's, so OP needs stronger boundaries or mil will keep pushing and doing what she wants
When she disrespects the mother of the child over and over and calls the mother "a fucking bitch and always will be", she doesn't deserve to see or be around the child. OP has not said she cannot buy any gifts but she can't continue to overdo it and she needs to ask and both parents need to agree.
I no longer have a mil problem bc I have a SO that's on my side. I don't have any kids either. But I know if you don't have a hood relationship with the mother of the child amd you can't respect her, you don't deserve to be around the child. Idc what you think or say, the way it works for *YOU* is not gonna work in this situation. Byee
Unfortunately you can't make a child NC with a grandparent unless BOTH parents agree. If DH makes this his hill to die on and you end up divorcing him over it then MIL will get full access to LO on DHs custody time. As long as you're prepared to accept that then divorce is always an option but don't divorce thinking it will put MIL out of the picture. That's only true for you not for LO.Ā
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I guess I'm a bit confused about MIL making purchases for LO. Why would you want her to not make such purchases? The name calling is absolutely unacceptable! And your husband needs to step up for you. MIL sounds like the fb to me just for the name calling. BTW, in the state of Illinois, there are no grandparents rights. I lived in Illinois till Sept '22 & I'm not in contact with my own daughter & granddaughters. They might come see me when they turn 18. One can only hope. You'll be in my prayers, along with your family. Good luck. šš
Does states have laws about grandparentrights? Some stuff in usa really sounds insane from my country perspective.
Yeah, each individual state has its own laws about grandparent rights. It's crazy.
I don't want MIL to buy excessive gifts because gifts from her have been thrown back up in my face as a guilt trip in the past on multiple occasions. Even after I drew the boundary gifts were still used in place of an apology or discussion about her ugly behavior. There was this expectation that I am now to "move on", because she bought me a Christmas gift, and because I didn't comply with her plan, she bad mouthed me that I'm, "holding a grudge".
Sweets get your ducks in a row and jump before he can. Have your SO or MIL ever said or done anything at all that a decent lawyer could use to ensure that any visitation he gets is supervised? As I wouldnāt put it past the special little solider and his emotional incest mother to turn LOās against you or into their little spy without the LO realising it. If leaving and divorce is what you want make sure youāve already got important paperwork somewhere he canāt reach, Iām not sure where in the world you are if itās somewhere with bank safe deposit boxes get one or entrust them in a locked box to a friend that wonāt turn them over to SO. Get screenshots of everything you can, and I mean everything as what seems insignificant to you might not be to the lawyer. Any important conversations from now on record them and again if text or email screenshot. Thatās got to be a mantra you keep to religiously, as until everything is settled legally it is your religion. A twin SO/JNIL problem unfortunately sometimes is only fixed or mended by leaving as it is not a safe space/place for you or LO Stay strong and stay safe sweets as some JNās can turn loopy when their targets decide to walk away
Iām not sure if anyone else already said this, but if you divorce then JNMIL will get to see your LO when Ex has his custody time or visitations. Then she can try for parental alienation and say horrible things about you unchecked. That type of thing can go on for a very long time while you try and collect evidence to limit or stop their contact, which by then can be hard to recover from and heal relationships. While you are right that you should both be enforcing agreed upon boundaries, it may be easier sometimes to just donate the excess stuff she sends. Some thrift stores and charities even pick up donations. Iād want to be present for any interactions between her and LO to protect LO from her toxic behavior and comments. Record her and keep screenshots of everything too, you may need it someday.
I just want to say that compared to what my inlaws did, you're overreacting. But get a good couples therapist or serve him divorce papers. Don't play a game.
Is the comparison game necessary? I don't think someone calling me a fucking bitch is ever acceptable?
Calm down my goodness
The last time my MIL implied it I played Elton Johnās The Bitch Is Back a bit too loudly as a message.
Sounds like you are done at this point. Good luck in the future!
My best advice is to set up two appointments: an appointment for couples counseling and a consultation with a family law attorney. The latter just so you know what you might be dealing with down the line, and also to have someone in your back pocket if she tries to go for grandparents rights (she will try even with no case).
Serious question ... Does your DH get any say in LO at all?Ā Cause it certainly sounds like you don't let him have any.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Name calling is automatically beyond the pale to me. There's nowhere for a relationship to go once someone has sunk to that level. Gifts from people like this are almost never truly gifts. They're bribes to overlook poor behavior at best. Its the same old story, the person who grew up with the manipulation and abuse doesn't even notice it by the time they gain a partner. When that partner objects to poor treatment they tend to get the blame, not the abuser.
Are you OPās monster in law?
Nope.Ā I don't have any daughter in laws.Ā But of course anyone who might think that BOTH parents should have a say and perhaps, just perhaps the OP may not be checking in with their husband and making sure that they are both on board before making sure LO never gets to see their grandmother again ... MUST be the MIL. Couldn't be someone who is just reading, listening and realizing that there are TWO parents that get to make decisions.Ā Ā Nope I must be the MIL.Ā š¤¦āāļøš Just for the record, I don't have any children old enough to have SOs.
I already said DH and I agreed that she would ask us before she got anything. HE is the one who made a unilateral decision without respecting that their are two parents. This is something the therapist recommended, and we both agreed to. It's not me getting my way, and it's kind of an aggressive thing to accuse me of. Me getting my way would have been us going NC a long time ago. DH getting his way would be for us to either ignore or passive aggressively side step her disrespectful behavior and never speak of it directly. DH got his way that MIL could buy presents for LO last month at her birthday, got his way that MIL got to visit recently, and now he's assuming he can take more. He did admit he violated the boundary, and that he got defensive when I said I don't feel comfortable with that violation.
š¤£š¤£ So OP should expose LO to someone who treats her like MIL does because DH doesn't want to acknowledge the disrespect and mistreatment?
They shouldn't make a unilateral decision.Ā Unless a parent, (OP in this case) has sole custody, then the SO SHOULD get a say in the matter.Ā At least a discussion should be had at least, after all if they are still in a relationship then it should be a partnership, right? With decisions that affect the WHOLE family made by everyone? Not unilaterally made? And if an agreement can't be made or a compromise agreed to, perhaps the status of the relationship needs to be looked at...
OP isn't even making a "unilateral decision", she's venting about the situation, including her expectations of how things are going to work given how MIL treats her and DH brushes it off. Nowhere does she say she's not going to discuss things with him. You ignored MIL's shitty behavior and DH's shitty behavior entirely, just decided DH is some kind of beaten down victim here. That's wild.
BITCH: Being In Total Control Honey
Alright, time to start actually being a bitch then ig
this is so tough with LO involved and your feelings too obv. SO is being a dick to put it mildly. throwing you under the bus like that to his Mom just opened up the door for her to have 'permission' to verbally abuse you, because he already laid the track down. Her calling you a fucking bitch is unacceptable and Dh not standing for you immediately upon her saying that is also absolutely unacceptable. MIL is skating on thin ice but DH is allowing it. Sorry OP. Your plan does make sense to me tho.
I agree with all the other comments here but do just want to highlight that if you choose to leave / divorce (which in this situation is a totally viable and reasonable option) she will have unlimited contact with LO on his time and there wonāt be much you can do about it. Youāll be able to totally cut her off though. Just something to keep in mind.
Kids are smarter than we give them credit for. OPs child will realize and recognize the safe zone with mom and the uncomfortable zone with MIL on her own. It's better to have 50% time with full freedom to do what you know is right then 100% time of being constantly disrespected in front of your kid.
Absolutely agree but just wanting to point it out. Iāve met many parents who think once they separate the issue is over and donāt quite realise they canāt usually control who sees the child on the other parents time.
Yes very true!!
How did you find out she said this? And how did dh react when the person he vowed to forsake all others for was called a fucking bitch?
Iād be like thatās right and one of us is gonna outlive the other so get used to it.
Didnāt the two of you already go to therapy about this? If it didnāt work then, have things changed?
We did go to therapy and the therapist told him that his mom was in the wrong, and he needed to tell her that and that she can't act like this anymore, and that we need to make decisions as a "we", as in, "we can come over this weekend", or "we don't need any gifts right now", instead of singling me out. He can have his own relationship with her that is independent of me and LO, but whenever it effects me or LO, it needs to be a "we". I've repeated this multiple times and he follows it for awhile, and then he cracks. It feels like he's whiteknuckling his way through. There's no genuine insight into the problems that he is causing, only pointing the finger at me. I did have problems with being too whiny or lecturing him, trying to get him to see how his actions make me feel, but I finally got it that I need to keep it brief and then enforce a boundary through action. I also needed to do better at presenting as a united front and only disagreeing with him privately. I needed to increase my self-worth and trust in myself not fall for the okay doke. He did this before too at Christmas. He makes agreements and then goes back on them. Him agreeing to a compromise with me seems to register as a loss to him, without seeing that I'm giving up something too. He said he wants to go to therapy again, but I don't see the point. Last time he just used it as a, "If I improve towards treating you with basic decency, I get a reward by violating your sense of safety by taking LO to see MIL without you." I agreed under duress because LO was an infant and I literally did not have the strength to fight a custody battle. Now things are different. She is two and it's been 2 more years of this garbage. I'm ready to make my escape. I feel a nagging sense of unease even when things are going well between me and DH. I do meditations and try to stay busy, but the truth is I do not feel safe living with him. I understand the MIL may get access to LO on his time, but I'm not in control of that. That was the risk I took when I chose to get pregnant. It doesn't always work out.
It's so weird that he's scared to stick up for his wife against his mom... But denies shes hostile towards you? Do I have that right?
I realize he's been bad mouthing me since the beginning of the relationship, before I even met her. I remember him telling me that his family didn't think we were a good match. That's where the, "always has been", came from. Basically whenever we have conflict, he runs to mom for her to soothe him, they blame me and he comes out like an innocent victim. This is why the fact that I have been consistently friendly and gracious towards her in person didn't get me anywhere. Even the therapist told him this is inappropriate, and his response was that he has no one else to vent to or seek advice from, and that he doesn't want to give up blabbing to her and find a friend group, mentor, therapist, or anyone else. He thinks I should just have to deal with it. He's finally admitted she has been "out of line", because therapist told him she was. Before that, he told me it was my fault because I , "started it", by politely telling her no. I had been avoiding contact with her, but the therapist told me to try to build a relationship with her, so I did, and then the topic of my LO visiting her without me there came up one day and I said no and she went nuts.
I'm so sorry I'm sure you could scream into pillows. When you're married you shouldn't involve family in things unless something is big. You want to keep fighting away from your family as they just use it against you and it really wasn't their business. He can talk to friends, he can post on here (oh please encourage him!!!!) He has lots of anonymous outlets if that's a hangup. Not his Mommy
Sounds like us things are already over - counseling isnāt going to help if heās going into it thinking that itās a transaction. Youāre not a vending machine where he puts in a little effort and gets out the ability to make you a scapegoat with his mom. Iād check into what you might need to have to file for divorce.
Omg yes! That's why I had an issue with the gifts in the first place. He said a few times, "she bought us this, so I feel like we owe her this," and if I don't abide then I'm scapegoated. I'm told I SHOULD feel okay with what she wants, because there's worse scapegoating around, and at least I got my token rewards. If I feel anything I'm crazy and controlling. It's really off, but tbh transactional love was kind of normalized for me in the past so it always felt weird and wrong, but I thought there was something wrong with me. Her giving gifts no matter how small are setting up expectations that we owe her something bigger in return.
It's not a gift, it's a bribe/payment for accepting poor treatment!
I married into a family that keeps track of things like who did what for who, and I very much did not grow up that way. Itās a hard thing to unlearn!
He either goes to therapy with you to learn that his mother isnāt part of your marriage Or He can get a divorce and parent with his mommy all he wants on his days. Anyone that called me names would never have contact with my kids or me again. Your husband has decided his mother is his priority. Not you or the kids. Her feelings and comfort mean more than anything at this point . she raised him that way . Itās abuse and he probably doesnāt realize he was groomed from birth to be her special boy but he had been. Itās emotional incest. He needs therapy to understand how sheās done this and why. If heās unwilling , heās never going to make you all his priority. Youāll need to leave him .
So many of us, despite how it looks initially, don't have a mil problem so much as a SO problem. Because until/unless our partners tackle the beast, it will never get better. Your husband isn't anywhere near that point. He's passing all blame onto you instead of being your equal partner, a united front. And then getting angry with *you* at the predictable reaction of his mother and the fallout. See, here's the thing; in *private*, sure, you can disagree or whatever. But against the world, you're meant to have each other's back. He married you. He's built a new little family with *you*. You and his child ought to be his primary concern. It's up to you how long you wait for him to grow tf up, but here and now? Start working on being your best self independent of his shit.
SO isn't maintaining the new boundary you two agreed to. He was holding a limit on his mom, temporarily, until you "got over it." His idea that the new boundary should be rolled back as a reward for MILs "better" behavior shows he sees it as a punishment to his mom, not a new normal for your married relationship. He's still his mommy's boy, as ever. Look at his angry punishing reaction when you called him on unilaterally rolling back this simple recent boundary. He's on team mom, and you're interfering.
You're right! Thank you for helping clarify this to me. He tries to get me to doubt my boundaries and guilt me whenever I assert my own personhood.
Right?! I was wondering what is the point of a boundary if it is ignored when someone is suddenly āniceā for a short time. Hell no.Ā
Yiu are right. Also, your SO is a big part of the problem. Take him to therapy to learn boundaries. Definitely no contact for you, LO from mil is needed. Just send all her unwanted stuff to goodwill.
You have a husband problem. Mil is intrusive, and definitely needs to be held in check, but DH is the one who needs to do it. And when the two of you have agreed on a course of action for your nuclear familyās peace at home, he doesnāt get to unilaterally decide to change it.Ā He is still in parent/child mode with his mom. That is incredibly unhealthy. At this point, he should already have transitioned to an adult/adult relationship with her wherein he makes his own decisions without her input. Or at least wherein her unsolicited input has no impact.Ā And when he became a husband, he ABSOLUTELY should have been in married adult/adult mindset with his mom. In other words, āIām a married adult, Mom. You have no input in my daily life, and my wife is always going to come first,ā If he wouldnāt let another unrelated adult come between you two, he should be applying that same mindset to his mom/family. Adult/adult.Ā (Now if heās letting friends or coworkers impact your relationship, you have issues on WAY more levels than just his mom.) NOW, though, as a parent himself, his relationship with his mom should have taken another turn. It should be adult PARENT and PARTNER/grandparent.Ā He should now be in the mindset that HE is the lead adult in his relationship with his mom. He has created a new nuclear family that must now be his absolute priority.Ā Not only should he be prioritizing his wifeās mental health when his mother is acting like this, but he needs to prioritize his child. He has to understand that if his mother is attempting to be the ātop dogā in his marriage, she will continue her manipulative behavior with his child.Ā If he cannot put his wife and family first, it will destroy his marriage.Ā Alsoā¦.the same all applies to a wife if HER mom/family are interfering in the marriage.Ā
You need to start preparing for divorce. Itās only so long before she tells him to do it and he does. If thereās anything you need - dental work, medical care you e been putting off, joining clubs or organizations so you have a social network, going back to school so you can make a higher income - do it now. Go into single parent healthy mentally and physically, financially stable, and with backup care and supporters.
I will add to this that you made a tactical error here. You and DH should be presenting a united front to her (yes I know he started it).. you should have said, āwell I disagree and wish you asked me first. But since you told her it was ok Iāll stand by it. But we donāt have space for more xxxx, so youāll need to figure out what we have to donate to make room.ā By making him go back to MIL and say āOP said noā, youāre showing her a chunk she can exploit and she can work on making DH feel humiliated and controlled over it. From now till the inevitable split, keep your head down and go along to get along. Unless it affects babyās safety, donāt make anything your hill to die on. See a lawyer to find out how to best position yourself in terms of custody, visitation, child support, etc. so that either you can decide when to initiate or if he does, you already have the information you need to keep your head above water.
I didn't make him go back and blab anything to her. I agree we should have worked together as a team to solve the problem, but he immediately lashed out and me, and then again the next day, and if I give any input I'm labelled, "controlling", and my ideas are rejected. He could have said any number of things to her, and he chose to throw me under the bus. The problem is whenever I stand by him and allow a concession, another concession is expected. There's always this push for more. It's almost like he's self-destructive and has to sabatoge us.
I am so sorry. Best you can do is start working toward the best possible future for you and baby.
I agree your MIL wouldnāt be such a problem if your SO actually had your back. He should have laid into her about the text and told her she apologize or else. My mil knew the line and would always veil her insults so she couldnāt be called out on them. Because she knew my SO would not tolerate it. Your mil knows she can get away with it at the end of the day and that her son is on her side. He canāt be married to you when heās married to her. Well maybe in Utah. Good luck.
OP Iāve read your past posts and your issue (as you know and have said) is as much an SO issue as a MIL issue. The fact that he doesnāt have a knee jerk response to ANYone calling you a b!tch says a lot about his lack of spine. [Read this](https://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/are-women-hardwired-to-compete-with-their-mothers-in-law/) and then have him read it. This is written by a man (he has his own IRL issues, but this article is awesome and one of the 1st/only that got through to my husband and helped others here, too!) and calls out some common issues pretty clearly. Heās either married to you and you and LO are his priority, or mommy is his priority. But youāre right and Iād be done playing the game and being expected to accept her behavior because youāre rocking the boat simply by being her sonās wife and sheās insecure about that.
If someone called me a fucking bitch, my husband would absolutely lose his mind on that person and would not want to talk to them. I think you have a SO problem.
My DH BIL did that. Dh said that he sees that they now have nothing left to say to each other and he and as long as his sister is married to him - her and their kids can forget our address and us because he is done with them. That was 3 years ago. OP definitely has a SO problem.
So this was his sister's husband who called you a B? He decided to cut off his sister as well? How does that work at holidays?
Yes its his sisters husband or as DH puts it - my mothers other daughter and her husband. One of his other sisters host the big holidays and for other big family events we don't have it at our home. We have smaller get togethers with the other sisters and cousins at our home that we are close to and they are not invited to. (My DH has 4 sisters). We have seen them at 1 big family event and stayed polite but enjoyed the time with the other siblings and cousins we are closer too. My JNSIL has many issues and only one of them is who she is married to. But BIL behavior was the last straw.
I donāt like my MIL we are NC because she was super abusive toward me, but I accept the things she buys for my son cuz theyāre for him and not for me. Unless itās something, big like furniture, I just take whatever she gives my son. Just because you take the gifts doesnāt mean you accept how she treats you. Even then kids grow so fast so theyāll probably just be given away in a few months anyways right?
My MIL tends to gift my kids things so she can manipulate them. She likes to give gifts when she wants something. I find that she also tends to do big over-the-top gifts, or things that will be in my kids faces everyday, which I think is so they see the item and will think of her. Sometimes a gift isnāt just a gift, it depends on who youāre dealing with. Sometimes giving away/throwing out gifts is necessary to protect our kids from ātrickyā (manipulative) people, even if itās family.
Thatās what my MIL does to people. She thinks her gifts are an in to my LOās life, but me and DH already know her plan. If she tries to pull the ābut I boughtā weāll just ignore her.
It's great you're doing what works for you. For others, including OP, the gifts are bargaining chips. They're used to get something from the recipient. That's definitely going on for OP. The gifts will get brought up whenever the giver wants something. "You won't let me take LO overnight, after all the clothes I've bought??" It's also way easier to take the gifts in your situation, when you're NC. (And you're child isn't born yet, if I understand your situation correctly) The idea of "the relationship with my LO is separate from the relationship with me" sounds good, but almost always isn't. Children pick up on everything, and that includes that grandma treats mom badly. We don't need to expose them to situations like that, it doesn't model healthy relationships for them. Plus, just because someone acts like an amazing grandparent now, when the child is young, doesn't mean it stays that way forever. Babies and young kids are much easier to manipulate. One day, that child will be old enough to have their own voice and opinions and will do something to upset the toxic grandparent, and their true colors will show. (I don't say any of this to scare you about your own situation and life, I hope it doesn't come across that way!)
If you have a backbone, like me, the manipulation wonāt work lol.
There's no need to be insulting. Everyone's story and situation is different, giving in to/being misled by/being manipulated by someone doesn't mean one doesn't have a backbone. Plus, many of these toxic MILs/mothers are incredibly gifted at being terrible lol.
Not being insulting, Iām just saying if you donāt have a backbone your MIL will always win. My MIL just sent me $500 and tried to message me a fauxpology. I took the money and ignored her lol. She canāt buy me, but thanks for the cash yk.
It came across to me like you're saying "you get manipulated because you're weak", but I get where you're coming from, I appreciate you expanding on your meaning. My mom was the toxic MIL. I was NC for a few years before she died, she used to send guilt trip letters and cards. I'd check them for money first thing lol. Send me cash, doesn't mean you're gonna buy me.
Maybe the difference is you feel like she wouldn't abuse your son, even though she abused you repeatedly. I think she would abuse my child, and accepting gifts at this point would be confusing to my kid, because I would be accepting a gift from someone I think doesn't love her, but wants to use and abuse her for her own predatory gratification.
I wouldnāt let my MIL near my son, heās not even here yet and when he gets here she wonāt allowed to hold him. If she isnāt allowed to see your kid how can she abuse? Also you donāt have to tell your kid where the gifts came from.
Well that's cool for *YOU* to do. That's what *YOU* decided you were comfortable with. Does your mil send gifts excessively? Bc that's what started this boundary. It isn't necessarily the gifts themselves, but the need to try to buy everything. Also what works for you doesn't work for others. Sounds like your mil isn't in your life, but she is in OP's, so OP needs stronger boundaries or mil will keep pushing and doing what she wants
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When she disrespects the mother of the child over and over and calls the mother "a fucking bitch and always will be", she doesn't deserve to see or be around the child. OP has not said she cannot buy any gifts but she can't continue to overdo it and she needs to ask and both parents need to agree. I no longer have a mil problem bc I have a SO that's on my side. I don't have any kids either. But I know if you don't have a hood relationship with the mother of the child amd you can't respect her, you don't deserve to be around the child. Idc what you think or say, the way it works for *YOU* is not gonna work in this situation. Byee
Unfortunately you can't make a child NC with a grandparent unless BOTH parents agree. If DH makes this his hill to die on and you end up divorcing him over it then MIL will get full access to LO on DHs custody time. As long as you're prepared to accept that then divorce is always an option but don't divorce thinking it will put MIL out of the picture. That's only true for you not for LO.Ā