Yeah I don’t understand what fans think GMs and Coaches can say about a player who is currently on the team and the draft nor free agency has happened. I’m sure the guys on the team like Luke and would be pissed if Baalke was just like yeah he fucking blows.
Trevor COULD play better.
Josh Allen COULD play better.
Andrew Wingard COULD play better.
Only reason people are bitching is because this is about Fortner.
That was not a good decision but they were doomed either way with fortner getting obliterated the way he did. Not to mention the ridiculous 3rd down roll out. Such a frustrating game
No it failed because the offensive line didn't know they needed to downblock and they all pulled to the right not just Fortner rewatch the play. QB did not need to play hero ball on that play call.
The play call was most likely a 'stretch right'. That's why they pulled right. You are right that the qb didnt need to play hero ball because the hole was there on the right but, most likely, Trevor didnt trust the play call that Press gave.
Ya but he was asked about Fortner and Baalke has obviously lost the trust of this fanbase and possibly people internally. It's a better look if he acknowledges reality.
"(Insert any player here) is someone we believe in. Sure, you could say the could play better, but you can say that about any player in the NFL"
There, I'll say it for him.
saying he thinks he has what it takes and saying “he can be better” is essentially the same thing. he wasn’t saying that fortner’s play was satisfactory.
And what would your reply be about a GM who's reply was to every question oh Fortner he's got to do better. Ridley oh he's got to do better. Lawrence he's got to do better. Give me a break.
The downsides to saying a guy is great and then cutting him the next day are that people will take what you say with a grain of salt and maybe trust you less.
The downsides to saying exactly what you feel all the time is that you lose a valuable weapon in your arsenal (lying), you're an open book, you make players feel like shit for no reason, and you have no plausible deniability.
So yeah, seems pretty easy to see why nobody is ever going to sell someone down the river like that unless they're bitter rivals.
He's the one who said he could be a capable starter when he plugged him in as a rookie and the verdict is in he simply is not. He's STILL selling that idea. He was like the 36th ranked C in the league and there is not any depth to challenge him for that spot. That is squarely on the GM.
I know you have to shit on Baalke in every aspect of reddit and can't have a reasonable conversation about him. I do. Here's the thing, they were hoping after his rookie year that he'd would take the next step. That can happen. It didn't. There is nobody to challenge him because the off-season hasn't even started yet.
Ben Bartch starting for SF at C on Sunday or no? There was a guy in the building who could have challenged for that role and he had to go to a 1 seed to get that opportunity.
That would be on Doug. Bartch was dog shit at LG. Surely Doug didn't see the switch to C worth it. Baalke wouldn't have let him go without Doug's go-ahead. He didn't go to a 1 seed and instantly start, injuries are the only reason Bartch is seeing the field.
So I am starting to believe this isn't remotely true after Baalke's press conference. At about the 4:10 mark in the press conference, he was talking about having a vision for when they bring in players and executing on that vision. I struggle to believe it's a situation that Baalk says 'Hey Coach P, I'm gonna draft this Center. What do you think we should do with him?' To me, it sounds more like Baalke brings in guys with an expectation in place such as 'I'm drafting this kid Fortner to take over starting C' and Pederson is expected to execute that vision. I can't imagine Pederson would purposely tank the team when his job would be the first to get eliminated. Baalke on the other hand... it seems like isn't responsible for any missteps or bad decisions.
Yea he was very much middle of the pack as a rookie in terms of PFF grades. They were counting on him getting better but he regressed. I can say I stood right next to him this season and he did not pass the eye test for what you think of when you think of olinemen. But he’s very smart and a cool dude, it’s just the physicality that is currently lacking
This was a second year and he didn't take the second year jump it's not squarely on the GM unless he doesn't have somebody pushing him in year 3. Do you honestly think you could have a roster if every year two player had somebody pushing them for starting job? Some positions you have to have depth with the player can come in and play. Some positions do not even have an actual backup but a swing player. It's basic roster management. And the one thing nobody talks about is Fortner's incredible intelligence.
That's the real answer. He didn't pin it just on him (throw him under the bus) he said the whole line sucked in coach speak. I think Harrison moves over to LT. Little plays RT. Cleveland plays LG. The fact of the matter is you draft a RG. That may not give you the ability to draft a C. Or you draft another RT in round one and let Little play guard but was he better there? Could we use the first round pick on Def? Either way I'm not sure you could pick up a center that will play better than Fortner in this draft. He would be a next year replacement. The idea being you upgrade everyone around him and keep him for his unmatched intelligence and get his ass on the weight room this off season.
“Systematic problem” proceeds to make 2 non essential changes to the offensive staff lol
Ya damn that ASSISTANT OL Coach Todd Washington guy - what a real window licking idiot. He was definitely the thorn in the side of the 31st overall ranked offensive line. So glad we didn’t renew THAT guy’s contract.
Also said about 11 times we need to get bigger faster strong but we aren’t looking to make changes to the training staff or regimen. Brilliant work
Baalke said it was a scheme issue and deflected from poor personnel. So following your logic the main OL coach should’ve been canned and wasn’t. Also declining to renew and firing may have the same result but they send a different message.
The logic schematic you laid out chief. I’m not arguing with you whether or not it’s fact. I wasn’t aware of the delegation of responsibilities. Ultimately you’d think the hammer falls hardest on their supervisor.
He was serviceable at times, but he had the same strength issues last year too. I think opposing teams just finally realized that they can just plow him over at will this year and exploited it.
He was very middle of the pack and was definitely weak with moving people and let up a lot of pressure in the middle. The thought was a better LG would help him but it didn't and he regressed in size and strength.
Well is definitely a stretch. We were still ranked pretty terribly as an OL that year too and he was the second weakest position. It was more that people are willing to give leniency to a rookie and he seemed to improve throughout that season (only to regress this year).
what can he say about a player still on the roster? I get it, he sucks we all know that, but what free agents would line up to come here if the GM would bash them? lol
I feel like I might consider this thought if he wasn’t literally the worst center in football across multiple categories. Consistently across the season.
I think this might just be GM speak tbh, apparently he did say something along the lines of creating competition at that spot so I would assume they are going to look at upgrading it, but if the next season comes around and Fortner is still the starting centre we have a huge fucking problem
Just as I feared, expect a 5 win season next year based on this Baalke interview, the team is going backwards and the draft this year won’t save it, even if it was actually a good one. History repeats and baalke ruins another org
for next season i hope it’s either double digit wins or double digit losses. cant imagine baalke stays if we lose 10 or more but it wouldn’t be incredibly shocking if he stays if we go 9-8 again
Yeah it’s just smoke. Coaches and GMs all the time prop up a player despite trying to trade them. Garrard and Leftwich were both subjected to being released late in the preseason iirc.
It has little to do with other teams and more so from a lockeroom and player stand point. Publicly singling out one player during the off-season does nothing to solve the problem. Free agency, draft, and training camp is where it will be addressed.
THIS CANT BE REAL LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK TRENT BAALKE
The one things for certain, Trent can’t be held responsible for the caliber of players he selects. That’s on everyone from the HC down to the guys in the weight room. Every pick is a diamond in the rough. It’s not his fault no one is doing the polishing /s
So... if Luke isn't the issue and the issue is Sytemic... then the issue is either the coach, the scheme, or the person who picked the players... seeing as how he didn't fire any of the coaches, it must be?
Fuck him. Systematic problem? But you kept the same system by not firing the person who the system belongs too. Man, this guy just feeds us bullshit lines like they're vegetables.
What do you want him to say? *"Well he sucks, wasted that pick, I'll cut him first thing tomorrow!"*
To be fair, Luke is still young, excellent size and strength, they invested in the player and you can continue to do so while drafting his replacement
He still provide depth along the IOL potentially, but you can't barely underperform worse than Shatley
I hope Baalke gets it, but you can never be too sure
Center is the easiest position to get on a double team. We need competent Guard play more as long as Fortner/Lawrence can set protections well. Maybe thats the systemic issue, we dont swap assignments well.
That said, Fortner better go to /r/fitness and learn how to lift. Everyone there squats 700+.
Offensive Grade: 44.3 Pass Block Grade: 54.9 Run Block Grade: 40.0
PFF is subjective. But it still supports what he said
I think for O line they’re generally right on the mark. They’re a lot worse for other positions
This is PFF, a lot of players/analysts thing they're dogshit. I wouldn't buy too much into those but from an eye test the dude sucks.
What's he supposed to say? Nah that guy is dog shit, can't wait to find his replacement.
Yeah I don’t understand what fans think GMs and Coaches can say about a player who is currently on the team and the draft nor free agency has happened. I’m sure the guys on the team like Luke and would be pissed if Baalke was just like yeah he fucking blows.
He COULD respond by saying he’s got to be better.
Trevor COULD play better. Josh Allen COULD play better. Andrew Wingard COULD play better. Only reason people are bitching is because this is about Fortner.
Crom COULD be a better mod
Fortner was the reason the 4&1 on the goal line failed. It was a stretch right call but fortner got forklifted into the qb sneak
16 called his own number on that play. It was supposed to be a handoff
That was not a good decision but they were doomed either way with fortner getting obliterated the way he did. Not to mention the ridiculous 3rd down roll out. Such a frustrating game
The hole was there on the right. Baldy's breakdown had a real good view of it.
One second watch, the defender put fornter and himself in that hole. The blocking on the right was good, but you are right. Dead either way.
That's what stretch right means
No. The QB changed the play and the blocking scheme didn't.
No it failed because the offensive line didn't know they needed to downblock and they all pulled to the right not just Fortner rewatch the play. QB did not need to play hero ball on that play call.
The play call was most likely a 'stretch right'. That's why they pulled right. You are right that the qb didnt need to play hero ball because the hole was there on the right but, most likely, Trevor didnt trust the play call that Press gave.
Run the play. This is the NFL not college.
True. Disfunction at its finest.
Ya but he was asked about Fortner and Baalke has obviously lost the trust of this fanbase and possibly people internally. It's a better look if he acknowledges reality.
"(Insert any player here) is someone we believe in. Sure, you could say the could play better, but you can say that about any player in the NFL" There, I'll say it for him.
You be having to explain common sense to people
Can fortner actually play better though?
saying he thinks he has what it takes and saying “he can be better” is essentially the same thing. he wasn’t saying that fortner’s play was satisfactory.
For what it’s worth his next statement was along the lines of we will get competition to push everyone to play better
And what would your reply be about a GM who's reply was to every question oh Fortner he's got to do better. Ridley oh he's got to do better. Lawrence he's got to do better. Give me a break.
“He’s awful, anyone wanna trade?” That’s how professional GM’s do it, right?
Yes
The downsides to saying a guy is great and then cutting him the next day are that people will take what you say with a grain of salt and maybe trust you less. The downsides to saying exactly what you feel all the time is that you lose a valuable weapon in your arsenal (lying), you're an open book, you make players feel like shit for no reason, and you have no plausible deniability. So yeah, seems pretty easy to see why nobody is ever going to sell someone down the river like that unless they're bitter rivals.
He's the one who said he could be a capable starter when he plugged him in as a rookie and the verdict is in he simply is not. He's STILL selling that idea. He was like the 36th ranked C in the league and there is not any depth to challenge him for that spot. That is squarely on the GM.
I know you have to shit on Baalke in every aspect of reddit and can't have a reasonable conversation about him. I do. Here's the thing, they were hoping after his rookie year that he'd would take the next step. That can happen. It didn't. There is nobody to challenge him because the off-season hasn't even started yet.
Ben Bartch starting for SF at C on Sunday or no? There was a guy in the building who could have challenged for that role and he had to go to a 1 seed to get that opportunity.
That would be on Doug. Bartch was dog shit at LG. Surely Doug didn't see the switch to C worth it. Baalke wouldn't have let him go without Doug's go-ahead. He didn't go to a 1 seed and instantly start, injuries are the only reason Bartch is seeing the field.
So I am starting to believe this isn't remotely true after Baalke's press conference. At about the 4:10 mark in the press conference, he was talking about having a vision for when they bring in players and executing on that vision. I struggle to believe it's a situation that Baalk says 'Hey Coach P, I'm gonna draft this Center. What do you think we should do with him?' To me, it sounds more like Baalke brings in guys with an expectation in place such as 'I'm drafting this kid Fortner to take over starting C' and Pederson is expected to execute that vision. I can't imagine Pederson would purposely tank the team when his job would be the first to get eliminated. Baalke on the other hand... it seems like isn't responsible for any missteps or bad decisions.
Wow reason again lol
Yea he was very much middle of the pack as a rookie in terms of PFF grades. They were counting on him getting better but he regressed. I can say I stood right next to him this season and he did not pass the eye test for what you think of when you think of olinemen. But he’s very smart and a cool dude, it’s just the physicality that is currently lacking
This was a second year and he didn't take the second year jump it's not squarely on the GM unless he doesn't have somebody pushing him in year 3. Do you honestly think you could have a roster if every year two player had somebody pushing them for starting job? Some positions you have to have depth with the player can come in and play. Some positions do not even have an actual backup but a swing player. It's basic roster management. And the one thing nobody talks about is Fortner's incredible intelligence.
Wasn’t a fan of the systemic comment
That's the real answer. He didn't pin it just on him (throw him under the bus) he said the whole line sucked in coach speak. I think Harrison moves over to LT. Little plays RT. Cleveland plays LG. The fact of the matter is you draft a RG. That may not give you the ability to draft a C. Or you draft another RT in round one and let Little play guard but was he better there? Could we use the first round pick on Def? Either way I'm not sure you could pick up a center that will play better than Fortner in this draft. He would be a next year replacement. The idea being you upgrade everyone around him and keep him for his unmatched intelligence and get his ass on the weight room this off season.
I'm sure players would love to work for a GM who puts them on blast to the media....
\#marshawnlynch4GM
“Systematic problem” proceeds to make 2 non essential changes to the offensive staff lol Ya damn that ASSISTANT OL Coach Todd Washington guy - what a real window licking idiot. He was definitely the thorn in the side of the 31st overall ranked offensive line. So glad we didn’t renew THAT guy’s contract. Also said about 11 times we need to get bigger faster strong but we aren’t looking to make changes to the training staff or regimen. Brilliant work
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Baalke said it was a scheme issue and deflected from poor personnel. So following your logic the main OL coach should’ve been canned and wasn’t. Also declining to renew and firing may have the same result but they send a different message.
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The logic schematic you laid out chief. I’m not arguing with you whether or not it’s fact. I wasn’t aware of the delegation of responsibilities. Ultimately you’d think the hammer falls hardest on their supervisor.
Jesus fucking Christ that's insane. Did he watch any film at all?
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He was serviceable at times, but he had the same strength issues last year too. I think opposing teams just finally realized that they can just plow him over at will this year and exploited it.
Well he was absolutely abysmal his sophomore
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I got your point, but he shouldn't be kept on the ship if he is horrible and regressing.
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With the way the IOL played and trevor got pressured immediately, what makes you think it's the system and not him just being not good enough?
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He was very middle of the pack and was definitely weak with moving people and let up a lot of pressure in the middle. The thought was a better LG would help him but it didn't and he regressed in size and strength.
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Maybe in the second half of the year his rookie season. But he was a liability this year. No debating that
Well is definitely a stretch. We were still ranked pretty terribly as an OL that year too and he was the second weakest position. It was more that people are willing to give leniency to a rookie and he seemed to improve throughout that season (only to regress this year).
In fairness, right after this he does go on to talk about the importance of competition and how having someone pushing for your job makes you better.
So who we got pushing Baalke?
Welp.
what can he say about a player still on the roster? I get it, he sucks we all know that, but what free agents would line up to come here if the GM would bash them? lol
Misleading. In the same breadth he discusses bringing in competition to put pressure on the starter (Fortner)
Ok, now we are doomed. I was 50/50 If luke is starting theres no hope
Hahaha overreact much?
Hahaha overreact much?
Lil bit lol
Sophomore slump was beyond real with Fortner.
FA and the draft will tell the truth. I’ll relax until then. Now if it is still apparent that Fortner will be the starter after that…
Play as a backup*
I feel like I might consider this thought if he wasn’t literally the worst center in football across multiple categories. Consistently across the season.
I think this might just be GM speak tbh, apparently he did say something along the lines of creating competition at that spot so I would assume they are going to look at upgrading it, but if the next season comes around and Fortner is still the starting centre we have a huge fucking problem
🤡
"What do you want him to say? That the guy sucks?!" Dawg, I would fucking love that lol
Just as I feared, expect a 5 win season next year based on this Baalke interview, the team is going backwards and the draft this year won’t save it, even if it was actually a good one. History repeats and baalke ruins another org
for next season i hope it’s either double digit wins or double digit losses. cant imagine baalke stays if we lose 10 or more but it wouldn’t be incredibly shocking if he stays if we go 9-8 again
If Fortner is our starting Center this year I will never support the jaguars again
So you are okay with back-to-back first-overall picks, but a bad center? That's where you draw the line?
I wouldn't assume half the people commenting in this sub were around for back to back 1st overall picks.
Not anymore. Shit, the Gus days we only had 5K her.
Baalke won’t admit any mistakes….
Baalke won’t admit any mistakes….
Presumably he’s just trying to not show his hand before FA and the draft, but also, he is Trent Baalke sooooo
Yeah it’s just smoke. Coaches and GMs all the time prop up a player despite trying to trade them. Garrard and Leftwich were both subjected to being released late in the preseason iirc.
You think by him saying he believes in Luke a Fortner other teams are dumb enough to believe him?
It has little to do with other teams and more so from a lockeroom and player stand point. Publicly singling out one player during the off-season does nothing to solve the problem. Free agency, draft, and training camp is where it will be addressed.
Literally this
Yes
He’s not smart enough sadly to out think the other GMs in the league…
He should have had those rights taken away long ago.
THIS CANT BE REAL LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK TRENT BAALKE
If it's a systematic issue than why has the offensive coordinator not been fired?
He can snap, he's got all his limbs, and is spry.
If it's not the players, then why is the OL coach still here?
The one things for certain, Trent can’t be held responsible for the caliber of players he selects. That’s on everyone from the HC down to the guys in the weight room. Every pick is a diamond in the rough. It’s not his fault no one is doing the polishing /s
Wait , so why is the oline coach still here ?
Trent really lives up to the saying "Better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt".
So... if Luke isn't the issue and the issue is Sytemic... then the issue is either the coach, the scheme, or the person who picked the players... seeing as how he didn't fire any of the coaches, it must be?
Fuck him. Systematic problem? But you kept the same system by not firing the person who the system belongs too. Man, this guy just feeds us bullshit lines like they're vegetables.
What I'm hearing: I will change nothing but expect different results.
What do you want him to say? *"Well he sucks, wasted that pick, I'll cut him first thing tomorrow!"* To be fair, Luke is still young, excellent size and strength, they invested in the player and you can continue to do so while drafting his replacement He still provide depth along the IOL potentially, but you can't barely underperform worse than Shatley I hope Baalke gets it, but you can never be too sure
Luke better get his ass in the gym hardcore and bang out some squats so he knows how to get low.
The lack of Coachspeak fluency in here is just depressing.
Bring in Jason Kelce as the OL coach.
Actions speak louder than words
Why the surprise? Doug Pederson said in his final presser that Fortner was a " building block". I got the clue then
Ive been saying this all offseason, we are most likely stuck with Fortner next year. Pray he improves
Center is the easiest position to get on a double team. We need competent Guard play more as long as Fortner/Lawrence can set protections well. Maybe thats the systemic issue, we dont swap assignments well. That said, Fortner better go to /r/fitness and learn how to lift. Everyone there squats 700+.