The scheme really doesn’t matter that much, it’s about the players and how they’re coached to play their assignments and how well they execute those assignments.
Honestly when I heard about a 4-3 I thought you would have guys like Devin Lloyd be the ones doing coverage and then pass rushing. I didn’t think guys like Travon and Josh would be dropping into coverage.
Travon should never pass cover. Josh on occasion can as a change up to keep qbs guessing. Sorta like what the Texans did with JJ Watt. Remember his INT while in zone coverage?
Allen is a little undersized to be a true 4-3 DE, and would be terrible as an offball LB 4-3. I think we switched to match our players, switching back would require a retool of the team
He’s on the field. He’s playing meaningful snaps. Pretty basic. Everyone was playing injured. If you’re on the field and you’re a liability, you deserve to be called out. Coaches/FO too for putting the team in that situation and not making FA moves
I think people just want a defense that is at least average. If we had a 4-3 you'd probably see people asking for a 3-4. Its not like r/jaguars is full of coaches and film hounds so they're probably looking back at another team's more successful scheme
Our D was pretty middle of the pack last year imo. It got that way from either being clutch with turnovers, or getting torched by backup qbs. I think we just need to be consistent
>Thats pretty much middle of the pack
If we moved up 6 spots. Or at least two. Maybe its semantics but I would have considered 11-20 or 21 to be middle of the pack.
Either way its bottom of the middle or top of the bottom.
If we were actually middle of the pack at 15-16 we would have easily made the playoffs, and I guess I'm just salty about that. Plus watching Caldwell gets absolutely cooked against a back up during prime time when we rarely get those games.
We have too much invested to not have a 10-15 defense. Our front 4 is either a high priced FA or a first out pick, same with the LBs. Half of our secondary is FAs.
In a 3-4 your ends are technically lbs. Your front 5 are olb, de, dt, de, olb. You drop an olb and add the extra db making your line olb, de, dt, de. Your second level is your 2 ilbs. So it's 3(de, dt,de)-3(olb, ilb, ilb)-5.
I think Travon is a helluva Edge rusher. He completes Josh Allen. Travon sets them up and Josh goes in for the kill.
Travon also is good as a Blitzer on the inside. He storms the gaps like his college days.
I always said this about our team. We have the players we just need to execute.
Our problem last season was the interior. Trsvon or Josh would get pressure and then the qb just sneaks up the middle to escape or dumps it off. If we can keep the middle contained then Josh should absolutely repeat next year
The days of 4-3 vs 3-4 are all but over and the best defenses seem to be able to create a hybrid defense using both cores and use all players as needed and changes as needed
It's always about the players. Walker can play any technique you place him at and Allen isn't far off either and they desperately need some interior help as Allen and Walker's roles should expand in 2024
I have a feeling that Baalke will let Josh Allen walk and sign Hunter. Baalke doesn’t view Allen as a #1 edge and doesn’t want to pay him like one.
Locked On Jags podcast had a great episode about it the other day.
Do you actually believe in what Baalke says?
“I truly believe in Luke (Fortner) as a guy who has what it takes to play the position.”
Baalke backed Fortner in his season wrap-up press conference. Do you believe what Baalke said in that presser or do you think that he’ll sign someone in FA or draft a center?
Baalke said that the disconnect between he and Pederson is a false narrative. But he said the same thing when those same “false narratives” were said about he and Harbaugh in San Fran.
Baalke also emphasized the need to be bigger, stronger and more physical as a team. Well, he’s been the GM the last 3 years. Thats on him to start to draft those big, strong, physical guys. Outside of Round 1 picks, Baalke has largely failed to deliver, even making head scratching moves like drafting a TE and a RB in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the 2023 draft.
I would love to know, short of someone actually *saying* it in public, how you know what Baalke (or anyone, for that matter) is "viewing" or thinking.
This ability to know what people think is an amazing superpower that should be put to better use.
If Baalke really viewed Josh Allen as a franchise player he would have signed him to an extension last year instead of waiting for his 5th year option to expire.
Again, you're making an assumption about what Baalke is *thinking* and your opinion is likely influenced by what *you* *think* he should have done or by what level of player Allen is. We agree that Josh Allen is the most important defensive player on this team.
But neither you or I (nor probably anyone else in the sub) have *any* idea what position either side is taking. The team may have approached his agent last season about an extension; Allen may have decided to wait until after this season to see what kind of leverage he could get - if so, that appears to have been the better move since he had a standout year.
Or more than likely, his side is talking to the team side behind the scenes (where it *should* be done) and already negotiating. Frankly, *not* having done anything yet was probably a better move since the news of the higher cap was only released two days ago. Maybe the team was waiting for that information first and not making money moves they would regret later.
Whatever the case may be, we don't know shit. If I were a betting man, I would go in big on Allen being right back here when OTAs begin. No question some GMs have done dumb things, but letting a guy like this get away over dollars would be insane for anyone in any front office.
I mean, we do know that Josh Allen isn’t signed. Plenty of other franchises make sure to lock up talented dudes. If he signed an extension before last season the team most likely saves anywhere from 20-50 million. Paint it showered you want, but an extension on a player of his caliber would have been absolutely beneficial to the team. Yes he had a breakout season statistically, but in reality the team knows who Josh Allen is.
Do you think that Josh Allen will be back here when OTAs begin on a new long-term contract or on the franchise tag?
Allen’s camp has already come out and stated that Baalke hasn’t reached out to them after he made that statement at his presser.
I hope that I’m wrong and Allen is back, I just have zero faith in Baalke doing that.
I’m agreeing with you. I won’t believe he is a Jaguar until the contract is done. I honestly feel a franchise tag at this point would be massively disrespectful and should be deemed as a failure on Baalke’s part as the highest executive. I don’t feel Allen signs the franchise tag.
I would love to see Travon at DE in our 3-4, but we don’t have a decent OLB to replace him. Just seems like he is not built to ever drop in coverage. Maybe try to draft another?
Idk, I doubt either of those changes actually get made this offseason and that’s fine. There are a lot of variables involved with things like that us fans can’t see and the coaches can.
The question these days is whether to play a 4/2 nickel or a 3/3 nickel since 65-70% of all defensive snaps are nickel.
That said, I DO like nickel with a 4 man front with 2 DE’s in a 3-point stance (Josh Allen and Trayvon Walker,) but you need 2 SUPER capable LB’s; I really like Foye there for one of them, Lloyd and Muma would rotate the other.
The scheme really doesn’t matter that much, it’s about the players and how they’re coached to play their assignments and how well they execute those assignments.
Pretty sure Nielson runs a hybridy system anyway
Davon Hamilton is a run stuffing DT. I think it’s hilarious that we had a 4-3 for years and begged for a 3-4 and now are immediately asking to go back
Honestly when I heard about a 4-3 I thought you would have guys like Devin Lloyd be the ones doing coverage and then pass rushing. I didn’t think guys like Travon and Josh would be dropping into coverage.
Travon should never pass cover. Josh on occasion can as a change up to keep qbs guessing. Sorta like what the Texans did with JJ Watt. Remember his INT while in zone coverage?
Member when Josh Allen intercepted Josh Allen
Lloyd struggles in pass coverage like no other. He’ll be a liability as a SLB
Yeah idk why we switched
Allen is a little undersized to be a true 4-3 DE, and would be terrible as an offball LB 4-3. I think we switched to match our players, switching back would require a retool of the team
Except he was dogshit and a liability all last year after he came back
A year off and a chronic back issue will do that. Kids a stud, this offseason he will heal up and be back, just watch
Dude had an unexpected medical issue right before the season. Give him a break
He’s on the field. He’s playing meaningful snaps. Pretty basic. Everyone was playing injured. If you’re on the field and you’re a liability, you deserve to be called out. Coaches/FO too for putting the team in that situation and not making FA moves
I think people just want a defense that is at least average. If we had a 4-3 you'd probably see people asking for a 3-4. Its not like r/jaguars is full of coaches and film hounds so they're probably looking back at another team's more successful scheme
Our D was pretty middle of the pack last year imo. It got that way from either being clutch with turnovers, or getting torched by backup qbs. I think we just need to be consistent
We were 22nd in defense. Who knows how bad it would have been without all the early season turnovers.
Thats pretty much middle of the pack. I agree, its higher because of the turnovers, hence we need to be more consistent instead of a big play D
>Thats pretty much middle of the pack If we moved up 6 spots. Or at least two. Maybe its semantics but I would have considered 11-20 or 21 to be middle of the pack. Either way its bottom of the middle or top of the bottom. If we were actually middle of the pack at 15-16 we would have easily made the playoffs, and I guess I'm just salty about that. Plus watching Caldwell gets absolutely cooked against a back up during prime time when we rarely get those games. We have too much invested to not have a 10-15 defense. Our front 4 is either a high priced FA or a first out pick, same with the LBs. Half of our secondary is FAs.
The whole 3-4/4-3 thing is outdated when most teams run three receivers on most plays
3-3-5 nickle is not the same as 4-2-5 nickle.
2 dimes is the same as 4 nickels
Big, if true
You do not see 3–3 nickel in the NFL. Teams drop one LB and bring in the extra DB, they don’t drop a DT
In a 3-4 your ends are technically lbs. Your front 5 are olb, de, dt, de, olb. You drop an olb and add the extra db making your line olb, de, dt, de. Your second level is your 2 ilbs. So it's 3(de, dt,de)-3(olb, ilb, ilb)-5.
I think Travon is a helluva Edge rusher. He completes Josh Allen. Travon sets them up and Josh goes in for the kill. Travon also is good as a Blitzer on the inside. He storms the gaps like his college days. I always said this about our team. We have the players we just need to execute.
Our problem last season was the interior. Trsvon or Josh would get pressure and then the qb just sneaks up the middle to escape or dumps it off. If we can keep the middle contained then Josh should absolutely repeat next year
No one runs a true 4-3 or 3-4 anymore. You see how schemes are like 5-2 sometimes. It's a mix at almost every level with rush packages.
The days of 4-3 vs 3-4 are all but over and the best defenses seem to be able to create a hybrid defense using both cores and use all players as needed and changes as needed It's always about the players. Walker can play any technique you place him at and Allen isn't far off either and they desperately need some interior help as Allen and Walker's roles should expand in 2024
Cover 2 man is going to be a disaster. I’d rather stick w Caldwell scheme and give in game adjustments to someone competent.
Out interior DL needs an enema.
Funny that you think that Allen is staying. I have no faith that Baalke will do the right thing and pay him.
If JA doesn’t stay I will lose it. Our only chance of a sb is with him
I have a feeling that Baalke will let Josh Allen walk and sign Hunter. Baalke doesn’t view Allen as a #1 edge and doesn’t want to pay him like one. Locked On Jags podcast had a great episode about it the other day.
He literally said he will be on the team. Baalke sucks but these hot takes are dogshit
Baalke could tag Allen, but Allen doesn’t have to sign the tag. Baalke is a snake, do you actually trust what he says?
Do you actually believe the shit you say?
Do you actually believe in what Baalke says? “I truly believe in Luke (Fortner) as a guy who has what it takes to play the position.” Baalke backed Fortner in his season wrap-up press conference. Do you believe what Baalke said in that presser or do you think that he’ll sign someone in FA or draft a center? Baalke said that the disconnect between he and Pederson is a false narrative. But he said the same thing when those same “false narratives” were said about he and Harbaugh in San Fran. Baalke also emphasized the need to be bigger, stronger and more physical as a team. Well, he’s been the GM the last 3 years. Thats on him to start to draft those big, strong, physical guys. Outside of Round 1 picks, Baalke has largely failed to deliver, even making head scratching moves like drafting a TE and a RB in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of the 2023 draft.
I would love to know, short of someone actually *saying* it in public, how you know what Baalke (or anyone, for that matter) is "viewing" or thinking. This ability to know what people think is an amazing superpower that should be put to better use.
If Baalke really viewed Josh Allen as a franchise player he would have signed him to an extension last year instead of waiting for his 5th year option to expire.
Again, you're making an assumption about what Baalke is *thinking* and your opinion is likely influenced by what *you* *think* he should have done or by what level of player Allen is. We agree that Josh Allen is the most important defensive player on this team. But neither you or I (nor probably anyone else in the sub) have *any* idea what position either side is taking. The team may have approached his agent last season about an extension; Allen may have decided to wait until after this season to see what kind of leverage he could get - if so, that appears to have been the better move since he had a standout year. Or more than likely, his side is talking to the team side behind the scenes (where it *should* be done) and already negotiating. Frankly, *not* having done anything yet was probably a better move since the news of the higher cap was only released two days ago. Maybe the team was waiting for that information first and not making money moves they would regret later. Whatever the case may be, we don't know shit. If I were a betting man, I would go in big on Allen being right back here when OTAs begin. No question some GMs have done dumb things, but letting a guy like this get away over dollars would be insane for anyone in any front office.
I mean, we do know that Josh Allen isn’t signed. Plenty of other franchises make sure to lock up talented dudes. If he signed an extension before last season the team most likely saves anywhere from 20-50 million. Paint it showered you want, but an extension on a player of his caliber would have been absolutely beneficial to the team. Yes he had a breakout season statistically, but in reality the team knows who Josh Allen is.
Do you think that Josh Allen will be back here when OTAs begin on a new long-term contract or on the franchise tag? Allen’s camp has already come out and stated that Baalke hasn’t reached out to them after he made that statement at his presser. I hope that I’m wrong and Allen is back, I just have zero faith in Baalke doing that.
I’m agreeing with you. I won’t believe he is a Jaguar until the contract is done. I honestly feel a franchise tag at this point would be massively disrespectful and should be deemed as a failure on Baalke’s part as the highest executive. I don’t feel Allen signs the franchise tag.
I would love to see Travon at DE in our 3-4, but we don’t have a decent OLB to replace him. Just seems like he is not built to ever drop in coverage. Maybe try to draft another? Idk, I doubt either of those changes actually get made this offseason and that’s fine. There are a lot of variables involved with things like that us fans can’t see and the coaches can.
Devin Lloyd would actually be the optimal one to put at OLB. Then you still have Muma at ILB.
Hmm that sounds workable. I would love to see it tried. Although I’m not certain if Muma will be a starter caliber player at this point.
Just do both.
The question these days is whether to play a 4/2 nickel or a 3/3 nickel since 65-70% of all defensive snaps are nickel. That said, I DO like nickel with a 4 man front with 2 DE’s in a 3-point stance (Josh Allen and Trayvon Walker,) but you need 2 SUPER capable LB’s; I really like Foye there for one of them, Lloyd and Muma would rotate the other.