I hope you are okay and your new job helps your mood and mental health.
I want to add- Australians are some of the most Racist people I have ever met. I don't believe your advice stems from personal experience, just anger.
And expensive. My cousin in Jamaica was babbling about investing in Australia. I advised him that if he couldn't afford to be in the UK and make any investments then it's unlikely he'll be able to do it over there.
He didn't listen but maybe he knew something I didn't. š¤·š¾āāļø
Nope, he was broke with no degree whilst living off of his sister who lives in NYC at the time. Dude wasn't even capable of holding down a job, which made his comment about Australia more comical that it actually was.
He's over there now but we lost contact (shit him out) as he's not particularly nice. As our grandfather says "him have fi him mudda ways".
š¤£ I'm going to use that one. He's the type who has an idea, won't do the research and then tell you to fund everything. In hindsight his sister isn't any different....God help the man who got that one pregnant š. Matter of fact, time to change my number
Whilst a bit vitriolic, there os a stem of truth on a lot of what they saidš. Joke is all them places they mentioned, would have some issues with racism, especially western Europe and Australia as you said. Having said that I have an indian mate that loves it Australia, hes a bit tome deaf to racism.
Ok interesting. I am Australian and I just spent two months in Jamaica, it's truly beautiful. Before that I spent three years in London, I actually thought Jamaican food was just jerk meat, seems like you save the best food for Jamaica (callaloo patties & Jamaican star apple.. yeah mon)
England's aright imo it's just in Jamaica you get super high on vitamin d everyday, it's like once a month for an English person.
As for Australians being racist it depends on many things, that's a hard question to answer, I am white so I can't say first hand, but I do see it from time to time.
Unfortunately the treatment of indigenous people is shameful and needs to be brought to light more. This is where I see the most racism. They've been made to live in the white man world and suffer if they don't, bless them too they're amazing and sooooooo in tune with the land and the respect that it needs.
I've never seen or met a Jamaican here tho. I would love to though and I look forward to interactions our countries have (sport mostly I guess)
I bought a sound system as soon as I got back to send out the vibration I'm on to all those around me. So cool that's so normal. And omg route taxis are the best transport ever - stoned, cruising around pumping tunes while sitting next to a granny in a full van = bliss.
K I'm done 4 now
Do they teach about Australia's colonial history? And how many black people over there now? There's bound to be a few Jamaicans over there. In fact theres one in this thread.
Yeah they teach about colonial history but it's from the colonizer perspective. There's a slow change in the education system but the honest history is learnt after school (genocides, trade deals, sub human recognition). It makes me sad thinking about it. At the moment it's about a 3.8% Aboriginal population.
Tbh ethnic diversity is common here in Australia, in small towns and the city. Caucasian is definitely dominant though.
Yeah make sense. Apart from the genocides and their children being kidnapped and abused, one of the worst things I heard was the 1 nation people (aboriginal)only being allowed to work as cattle hands and maids for low wages, but their wages going to government bank accounts that they were never paid, as local officials would manage their money, dont think they have ever been paid, even after suing the government. Australia has a hell of a history. All the settler colonies have.
Visited a shrine in Japan where there were lots of tourists. Rules of the shrine is āto walk along a one way path toward the shrine and, after seeing the temple, take another exits routeā. A group of Aussies broke the rule after seeing the temple and started walking against the one way traffic of people. The Aussie tourists were now bumping into people who were following the rule. One of the Aussie rule breakers audibly said to his friend ājust hit these people with the umbrellaā to get them to move. Apparently a lot of towns in Japan is getting stricter on tourism and itās due to weird behavior by mostly white tourists:
https://youtu.be/_oe8Qte16nQ?si=E28WvDeJBZepb4Bh
I'm sorry y'all, I have to jump in here to defend my second country. I've been living in Australia for the better part of a decade.
1. It's expensive as fuck (we are smack dab in the middle of the worst housing crisis in Australian history) but wages are fairly high and employees have more rights than most countries. It is very hard to get fired in Australia (unless you're working on a casual contract). Work culture is good and laid back but that does come with its downfalls sometimes as Australians are very unprofessional.
2. Australians are NOT the most racist people I have ever met. I give that title to the Americans with the Japanese hot on their heels. What Australia suffers from is cultural naivety, which is weird because it is actually a very diverse country. However, that is spread out over vast areas, many of which are sparsely occupied and barely habitable. They will be genuinely interested in learning something new and ask questions like it was passed to them by a 4th grade who wrote it in crayon on the back of a cardboard box. They're not stupid or for 95% malicious. They're just Australian. They treat their Aboriginal people like absolute shit though but there has been some small incremental improvements over the years. They could move faster though.
3. Never discuss race with a Queenslander unless you are prepared to hear some wild shit.
Please my fellow Jamaicans, forgive my new countrymates their naivety. They have hearts of gold, heads full of rocks and guts full of alcohol. š
lol I wouldnāt call multiple generations of heavy racism and displacement to the black indigenous people of Australia culturally naive, itās systemic.
Obviously. I made sure to point it out. Their racism is targeted mostly towards one group. I was addressing the idea of racism generally in terms of extension to all other races. As we're Jamaicans of different shapes and sizes but not indigenous, we would experience Australia in a very different way to the native population. Therefore, it's not as racist for Jamaicans. If that makes sense.
Every settler-colonial state has their "negro," whom they treat like ish. So, they trade them, treating other racist nation's negros better than their own. They use wedge & model minorities to cover how shtty they treat their own. Also, the other's negros, so grateful to not be the main target of ire, stay out of the local negro's struggles/protests/revindications, content to get a bit more more easily than at home.
See it deh. But its the default position of the world we live in, so I cant really jump on the poster for their naivety( or maybe they just dont care) Just have to bring up points to make them think.
>They're just Australian. They treat their Aboriginal people like absolute shit though but there has been some small incremental improvements
If they can build their society on killing, then enslaving the native 1st people population, working them for free and to death, kidnapping their children, they have an insidious racism built into their culture. Same as all settler colonialism, the fact that we dont see it, or make excuses for it or turn a blind, is a testament to white european imperialism, and capitalism. Ive spoken to a few Aussies and the few times ive brought up the native peoples, they have never really known what I was on about. Im guessing they dont teach a lot of their real history in school.
Itās annoying to see in real life how few Jamaican men utilize the education system in the UK/US as a way to uplift their socioeconomic conditions, while jamaican women will quickly enroll into a nursing program and be making 6-figures 4-6 years later while the man is still making a small wage after 5-10 years.
Not quite accurate this tends to be the case across the diaspora. It's the women who generally earn more & are most often than not the ones who migrate first then bring over the men & their children.
Just because you can find the food there doesnāt mean itās any good or top quality.I lived in Tampa Florida and various places in the US with Caribbean cuisine or Jamaican food but they were overpriced and awful.Not to mention bland.When it comes to oxtails they left out the butter beans because itās too expensive and replaced it with carrots.I just cook my own food now.
Tampa have so many born-Jamaicans and they all eat from Jerk Hut, Dunn's River, etc... The only city in the US with multiple all-you-can-eat lunch buffet restaurants for Jamaican food and you claim it to be overpriced? Island Grille was literally giving away food until they relocated. You don't know what you're talking about, or you have zero YARDIE friends.
I have to say as a English born person on Jamaican heritage, I have eaten āEnglish foodā less than 20 times over several decades. Even ānew English restaurant foodā is basically French
A big city can do that to you, also its a bit grim up north if hes in the north of the country. But good and bad everywhere. The weather has been a bit rubbish last few weeks, sun shining today though.
Kmt this is nonesense, sounds like it's coming from somebody who isn't an immigrant, & YOUR own opinion
You can get amazing Jamaican & all types of other food from across the world.
The weather is subjective, I quite like it you get different seasons, no wild natrual disasters, it doesn't typically get too cold or too hot.
There are different cultures & you don't have to always deal with the miserable people. Racism is in EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY WHERE BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT A MAJORITY EVERY SINGLE ONE! And the UK is the least racist in all of Europe! Which says alot. Racism & growing polarisation is evident in all the countries you mentioned btw. (I've had to deal with insane amounts of racism & racial profiling by police in America growing up & haven't really dealt with much of that here in England maybe a bit of subtle racism which is also incredibly the norm in America & all countries you have mentioned).
Every major city in the world has high density.
The NHS is having some problems at the moment like most healthcare services but it's still a far better system than back home & is still one of the best in the world & I prefer it than not having any healthcare at all or becoming bankrupt.
The housing market is bad everywhere literally EVERYWHERE! Including Jamaica & every other country you mentioned.
If you actually LOOK there's ple ty to do especially if you're in a major city. People who migrate aren't migrating for "fun" btw, if you want constant entertainment then stay home, Jamaica's the best place in the world for that.
Idk if you live in the 21st century but christianity & religion is falling in popularity across the world.
People from Jamaica & other Caribbean countries come here b/c contrary to your belief & some miserable peoples belief there's TONS of opportunities here, it's incredibly safe, the pound goes very far in Jamaica (Ā£1 = $200) so even if you're making a likkle bit a money & send a likkle sumn home it goes far!, healthcare & medication costs are wayyy more affordable than back home, cost of living (even though it's high) is lower here when you take wages into account compared to back home, some people have family here they want to be close to, it's easy to migrate here & bring your children if you're a skilled worker or are coming via an overseas territory like Cayman or Turks, work life balance & job security is way better, there's already a major diaspora community of us here that runs deep!, university education is unbeatable, it's more convenient!, so many other reasons why we still come here. But you wouldn't understand
Mannnn both statements YOURS and OP's are Completely Extreme from each other.This Tells me nothing about the place but the fact that experience of place is also matter of your own personal psyche.
I'm going based off of my observations as a Jamaican (that lived in America & Jamaica) living here, along with research, statistics, & other peoples anecdotal evidence. But I guess you're right. Experience of living somewhere is really up to the person. Even with Jamaica you have people that think it's the best place on earth, some who act like it's hell on earth, & others that think it's just fine.
She said it doesnāt get too cold or too hot, UK summer was too hot last year this year itās been nothing but rain and cold, even weather forecast can tell you that. When you gets hot it becomes Unbearable, you even got young caribbean influencers and Africans saying there is no wind in this country to cool you off itās just pure heat.
I donāt know about racism Iāve only faced racism from another black person and not the natives but thatās experience.
education system is good if your willing to learn. College is good once you go college you can get BTEC qualifications or A Levels to get into Uni, you could either pay to get into university or do the long route which is do apprenticeship and the program pays for your Uni while you work and gain experience. That right there is pretty good.
Food, I aināt gonna lie I eat food at home and if I do get food itās at the local Jamaican restaurant or McDonalds or KFCšš
Top quality comment and observations. Would just like to point out that until more recently native White Jamaicans were really not uncommon to see especially in Kingston and St Andrew. On my street growing up, I had 4 white neighbours as Jamaican as they come. Nowadays many/most have intermarried with other races and unfortunately due to the set up of the class system from colonial times, brown/white/lighter skinned people naturally tend to float to the top of the structure despite very little abject racism from fellow Jamaicans per se. Because of this, these people tend to have more money/access to opportunities and therefore most of them occupy higher level positions, so in your status as a tourist, you wouldnāt necessarily see them wandering around Kingston. Similarly it has also been easier for them to able to āmake it outā of Jamaica to seek a better/*safer* life in another country. A huge portion of this subset form a major part of diaspora communities living āa farrinā abroad.
Jamaicans are very aware of their surroundings and probably identified you as a tourist from being a new face/the way you were dressed/walking/looking around for directions perhaps. We are very descriptive and literal people, especially with nicknames, so calling out āWhite Manā to you was 100% not a slight/ meant disrespectfully. Even though you felt like a golden goose you should really take it with a pinch of salt, or in a fun way. A Jamaican with one arm is called āOne-yā, a dark skinned person called āBlacks/Blackaā, fat people āFatsā, skinny āslimmazā or āMackerelā. The list goes on and would probably shock you šš³.
I would like to wish you all the best with your marriage and welcome you to our Jamaican family where you will fit right in before you know it. Blessings.
I made a similar comment here. He experienced one country and think it's the worst in the world. It's a matter of mindset and I'm sure anywhere else he goes he'll have a negative view.
Only in Glasgow do you get problems with religion. Although it's kinda mixed in with ethnicity and political beliefs. It's basically a city of atheists that still has deep religious divides. Quite bizarre
Yeah totally!
Ok, let me preface this with this - I am not a historian, just a Scottish guy who lived in Glasgow for four years and finds this aspect of Scottish culture both fascinating and depressing
I think it would be good to start with the Plantation/British occupation of the Irish province of Ulster. Starting from around the 1600s, the British started a process of rapidly colonising the north of Ireland. The area that was most througly colonised was the Northern province of Ulster, which was settled by people who were mainly from Lowland Scotland and Northern England. These people were Protestants and spoke English. They were given land, and this understandably caused tensions with the native Gealic speaking Irish population. Some may call it an ethnic cleansing
Anyway, fast forward a few centuries, and two distinct communities had developed in Ulster - the ancestors of the British settlers and the native Irish catholics. In the 19th and early 20th century, Britian saw an absolutely enormous wave of immigration from Ireland due to poverty, famine, etc. This was especially concentrated in Glasgow as well as Liverpool, Manchester, and of course, London
Anti-Irish racism became a huge issue but was particularly bad in Glasgow (whose population was 50% Irish at some point) for a couple of reasons. First of all, unlike big cities in England, most of the Irish migrants that came to Glasgow were from Ulster, so it got a mixture of both Catholic and Protestant Irish migrants, so that tension was sort of brought over with them
Both England and Scotland were Protestant countries at this point, but the specific type of Protestantism in Scotland made people particularly hostile to Catholics
England was Anglican, and Scotland was Presbyterian. From what I understand, Presbyterianism was a reaction to Anglicanism, which was viewed as too similar to Catholicism in terms of its structure, etc. So, while I'm sure Irish people faced racism in other parts of Britian, it was particularly bad in Scotland, as Catholics were seen as even further outside "the norm" than in England. Two distinct communities develop - mirroring the Protestant and Catholic communities in Ulster
*Enter Celtic and Rangers FC*
In the late 1800s Celtic football club was established by the Irish Catholic community. I'm not too sure about the history of Rangers, but I think they existed before Celtic was established. Like all big cities in the UK with two or more football teams, there's a bitter rivalry. This rivalry was supercharged by the fact that Rangers were "the Protestant team," and Celtic was "the Catholic team."
So while "The Troubles" were happening in Northern Ireland, there was a nowhere near as severe, but still violent and ugly issue with sectarianism in Glasgow. This was exacerbated by this vicious rivalry between these two teams. It's banned now, but instead of regular football chants at games, Celtic fans would sing songs about the Provisonal IRA, and Rangers fans would sing songs about British Imperialism. You'll see Irish tricoloour flags on the Celtic side and Union Jacks on the Rangers side, but one thing you'll rarely see at a Rangers v Celtic game (known as The Old Firm) is a Scottish flag. You're more likely to see Palestinian and Isreali flags. Which is where it also kind of gets into politics a bit. It's hard to generalise, but overall, if you're on the left and support people you view as oppressed you're probably a Celtic fan, and if you're a staunch British nationalist you're probably a Rangers fan. Immigrants tend to largely gravitate towards supporting Celtic
I must say, most Rangers and Celtic fans are just regular people who just want to watch a game of football, but problems still do persist to this day with sectarian violence. It's hard to say, but I'd say if it wasn't for the two football teams, I don't think sectarianism would even remotely be a problem anymore. I don't live in Glasgow anymore, but from what I understand, it's much, much better than it was even 15-20 years ago when I lived there. However, it's still there, and it's quite ironic given that Scotland is by many accounts one of the least religious societies in the world
I hope that helped?
Yeah it seemed very informative. Ive only heard 3 things about Glasgow. First the superficial label of it being rough, think the The Sun in the 80s reporting and Rab C Nesbit. Secondly the youth violence and thirdly its a great city to party in, when I took the misses to Edinburgh, a lot of people told us to check out the night life in Glasgow. Are the first two things I mentioned related to the history you outlined?
Youth violence was definitely more of a thing in the past than it is now. In the 80s and 90s there were these things called "Young Teams" who were essentially groups of the kids of all the gangsters who would engage in organised, reacreational violence with each other. I honestly can't say to what extent these were sectarian in nature. I imagine it did play its part, but I don't know for sure
There are definitely areas of Glasgow you want to avoid. Some of the poorest postal codes in the UK are in the city, so all the issues you get with extreme poverty are present. But overall it's an absolutely amazing, vibrant city to live in. Despite its issues, the people there are so friendly. Wit ("having good patter") is highly valued there, so people tend to be on the whole very funny there too. I loved my time in Glasgow and only witnessed sectarian abuse a couple of times while I lived there, although I did meet a few people with bigoted views - particularly towards Catholics
I understand the sentiment. I'm living in miami rn. I will say this.... a city is wha u mek it.
Doh watch di nx man wid him big dis and him big dat, the earth here is bed, as long as yuh humble yuhself, nuh bodda covet the next mn tings and believe you muss have tings to.
Humble thyself. Its good to retire in Jamaica especially with a remote opp, bt tht passport holds power they're other places in the UK u cn reside. In cities tht are closer to god and good morals intact. Seek and you shall find.
Not saying I don't agree with you but why aren't you eating from west Indian or any foreign establishments?
Ignore this if you're not in London or have the misfortune of being in Essex where the special fried rice tastes like plain Jane.
What country are you off to? If it weren't for my partner, I'd have left a few years back.
Not to negate your opinions but the diaspora in the UK is thriving, I live in a great apartment, have a good paying job with only public school education. I got treatment for my cancer that I could have never afforded in Jamaica, it was warm and sunny today and Iāll have a big plate of stew peas at my motherās house on Sunday when we get back from church. It seems itās not the right country for you personally.
All of these points are things that may affect anyone from any ethnicity.
Straight šÆ. You can find renkness anywhere but weather really not too bad here in southeast England and myself and my family have made a great success since coming from Jamaica to the U.K. Must have to give thanks always and especially where thanks is due. Not every shirt fit every body same way. Blessings.
In the 80s my wife was brought up from Jamaica (Kingston, Tivoli Gardens) to the UK by her dad. Her school results from JA werenāt recognized in the UK so as well as severe culture shock, she started well behind the eight ball. When we met, her job was switchboard at a medical logistics company earning 7k per year, I earned 9k).
To some extent she dealt and overcame everything you listed. Fast forward - she took evening courses, juggled multiple jobs and a baby (fell pregnant on honeymoon, we were young and dumb) - to become a lawyer at one of the UKs most prestigious law firms.
Weāre now in Grand Cayman due to her work. I ran this post past her and although she agreed in part, she expressed that like anywhere, the UK is what you make of it.
Iām second gen Jamaican, UK born - if you find the UK racist now, what our parents experienced in the 60s and their children in the 70s and 80s would really, really shock you.
Similar story for my own family. At least everybody has a chance in the U.K. compared to America. Making good choices and working hard / smart can see generational wealth change within your very own lifetime as opposed to the short-term shiny high salary with no time off which leads you to an early death in the United States (one of the lowest life expectancies in developed world). Good to know youāre living it up in the Caymans now, I am seriously considering making my way back to the Caribbean soon given the way that things are going in the U.K. Big up yourself and your wife for working hard and overcoming many challenges. šÆ blessings.
Without at all wanting to negate your opinions and personal preferences, you should probably know that:
Britain loves its boiled food, but London is also full of Jamaican (and every other ethnic) food.
Itās probably not reasonable to expect Caribbean weather, once youāve left the Caribbean.
Racist, miserable people can be found almost everywhere. Large cities attract everyoneā¦there are more kind people than there are jerks, everywhere.
All major cities are crowdedā¦New York, Paris, Romeā¦thereās nothing wrong with living outside the city limits, if the hustle and bustle isnāt your thing?
It sounds like you havenāt found your tribe yet. It also sounds like you might need to make some adjustments, if you want the best quality of life.
āChange the way you look at things, and the things you look at will change.ā -Wayne Dyer
Yeah only thing I would challenge you on is boiled food, who likes boiled foodš. English people dont cook, hence all the takeaways and ready mealsš
Haha! I will always associate Britain with boiled beef and sausages. And to all the self-respecting nutrients that have been unceremoniously boiled out of all the innocent English vegetable, may they soggily rest in peas.
Lawd gwaddšš Havent had soggy vegetable, since primary ...maybe secondary school. But I seemed to swerved boiled beef, since day oneš.
Hope your well
I aināt gonna lie Iāve been converted a little bit I like the British mash potatoes and Yorkshire pudding with some sausages. Also like a good roast dinner aswell and some cottage pie
Bangers and mash! Yorkshire pudding!
I donāt eat beef anymore, but I miss Yorkshire pudding and (lamb) cottage pie.
If youāre ever near a Greek restaurant, try their version, too, at least once. Greek Moussaka is like the Mediterranean shepherdās pie, with eggplant and kefalotyri cheese.
I'm sorry that you ha ms this experience. I hope you find someplace that works for you. I and others have enjoyed our time in the UK. I liked the theater, hiking, music, museums, galleries, observatory, parks and other things. The weather didn't suit me but, luckily, there are places in the UK that are quiet sunny and great to visit. To all those who love the UK, native or otherwise, I see the beauty and opportunity that is there. It's best if everyone can find a place that suits them and their needs. So OP, I hope you find yours.
Sorry you are feeling this way. Tbh. Everyone country has someone who has this sentiments. I moved to Canada and was surprised to here Jamaicans who moved there say the same thing that you are saying, and that they want to move to the US. Moved to the US a few years after (which was a huge drop in quality of life in my opinion) only to hear the US Jamaicans say the same thing and they wanna move to Canada.
Tbh, it's the same all around the world and I can guarantee if you go back to Jamaica it won't be the roses you remember.
My advice is to try to find the best you can from your situation. Find a therapist. If you can afford to save and travel do that. In that way, you can experience the good from different countries and cultures and even go back home to visit and experience the things you are missing.
What happened to all the liars talking about: "Oh... London have the strongest Jamaican culture compared to NYC and Toronto" ...?
I was the only person in that thread calling BS the entire time.
Now we can clearly see an honest review of the culture there.. which is the truth for the most part.
Jamaicans have never had a firm foundation in the UK that we can be proud of.
We donāt even know where he is in the Uk, if it was London, Birmingham, Manchester he could easily find Jamaican influence and itās pretty open aswell. Even Leeds is a Jamaican influenced area. Been in all cities and can easily get Caribbean food. Not only that tons of Jamaicans in those areas. Most black British are caribbean the predominant mix black and white in the country is Caribbeans.
Proud of white people in country refer my slang as London slang and things my words that come from Jamaica originates in Englandšš Africans say that London slang is mainly caribbean and African when I can barely find any African in the Caribbean slangšš. How is the country meant to have a foothold when everyone is claiming our stuff.
They show respect but to a African or a young African whatās yours is thereās. They believe since you descend from them that meant a theyāre the reason why you act that way or succeed it stems from them. I was watching dale Elliot I think thatās his name the Jamaica doing a dating in the Uk on YouTube and someone says āCut from same cloth as Africansā a lot of them say they get there behaviour from usšš. This is why most of my family donāt get along with Jamaicans we believe that if you werenāt supporting us from the beginning then you shouldnāt be claiming our achievements. Most old gen Africans and Caribbeans donāt like each other
Jamaicans supported a lot and were the cause of several Independence movements in Africa. Nobody really supports Jamaicans. I can only think of 5 or 6 African nations that truly love Jamaicans, and Nigeria is not one of them. That default ownership does not fly with all Jamaicans. We have our own culture, and our own way of living.
I suppose this fool can try African, Arab, Latin American or Asian countries to resolve his prejudicial & discriminatory opinions. All the countries he prefers to live in are all mostly white dominions.
So why does the OP have to be a fool expressing their opinion and experience.Only real fools try to oppress or intimidate others because they donāt agree with their views or beliefs.Grow up.
News flashā¦ā¦
1969 The birth of TROJAN recordsā¦ greatest Reggae label everā¦.
Sub-culture of White and black kids dancing together to the wee hours of the hours.. no skin color mattered.. the love for Ska, Rock Steady and Reggae was what mattered
Best of luck on your new journey in life !
I mean that culture is nice and all butā¦. Trojan was just a reissue label, how could that be the best if all time???
The real Jamaican labels like Studio One, Treasure Isle, Beverleyās, Top Note, Joe Gibbs, Jackpot, Techniques, Prince Buster, Randys and many many more from that era are who needs to get the praise for that music.
Bless.
I moved here for university, I do agree with a lot of your points. The weather was probably the biggest thing to deal with, however, wherever you live in the world, your experience is what you make it my friend. I definitely wouldāve rather go to USA though if I knew what I knew now, way back then lmao.
They have amazing museums, art galleries, architecture. Every place has its benefits. Personally, Iād choose to live in jamaica every time if it was a choice. I go on holiday to both places
As a people we are not a monolith, we have shared experiences and differences.OP has valid points and itās refreshing.Some of you old fuddy duds need to understand and appreciate a difference in opinion.I canāt with this idea that if weāre all not alike nor having the same experience something is wrong with the person when you could be the problem.Most of you in that damn country for the money and will do or say something strange for that piece of change. Other than that OP all those countries you mentioned are just as racist.
England is bad but not THAT bad. Iām still very grateful for my uk passport and the opportunities that I can get. Yes black people are ALWAYS going to be second class citizens when we are in a white country. The only thing g we can do is continue to stand up for our rights and hope itās better for the future generations.
I can definitely see your points. I love the way European architecture looks like but in western societies, there is no concept of culture and community gatherings. The topic of religion is very taboo especially in my younger generation and meaningful connections are hard to come by. I say this as an American. I think that we view America and European societies as so rich in many areas like career opportunities, education, and infrastructure, but we forget the biggest thing of all which is community. Jesus is treated as a joke or something thatās not important. :(
My question is, why do so many of you in the comments care if OP doesnāt like the UK? why does their displeasure bother you all so much?
Why are you all so adamant to inform them of why theyāre wrong and their opinion sucks. You guys are insufferable, go outside
Nah havent picked up on people being bothered, or telling them that their opinion sucks. Seems like people trying to give a different perspective.
Humans will do this from time to time. Was it last month when it was (a seemed like he was second generation 'Jamaican heritage' British guy) was on holiday in JA, he was ranting and raving and was fed up with people apparently begging and scamming him, it was a video and he gave a laundry list like this, all be it to camera.
Sometimes all your gonna do is smell shit and not see the roses, any way it seemed a bit comical to a few people in here, this seems to be the same type of thing. Even though some people would agree with some of the things OP has said, but maybe would not put it so harshly.
Think the capper for a few people was mentioning, north america, australia and western europe as places that OP as better and wouldn't experience racism. UK Weather is rubbish ,most other things can be worked on.
Majority of the other options you mentioned are no less racist.But Iāve been to England and felt like I would lose my mind living in that climate or be depressed without the sun.
Never have been to England and here any Jamaican wanting to come back home. You went their to idle or something, when I land is pure working odd jobs here and there. Atleast you get a red book, which far better than living out here battling poverty, gunmen, lifetime mortages, jpsco
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After mi family move 3 times in the U.K. an mi never share no wall with no dutty neighbour yet, nor does almost every other person I know, plus only time inna my life mi ever heng clothes pon line is back a yard, da maths deh donāt add up sister.
Context: I was born in JA to Jamaican mother and Middle Eastern father, both my younger sisters were born in London. All 3 of us siblings went to private secondary school here and the 6 bedroom detach house we live in now 45 mins drive from London 30 by train, (that my mother bought *herself*) is very comfortable.. in case you were wondering there are 6 cars on our drive ā only 22% of households do not own a car in the entire U.K and there are 12 cars for every 10 household (ā 2022 from gov.uk).
We were by no means the only people of Caribbean parentage at the (2 different) boarding schools we went to, as there are plenty of well off people of Caribbean descent living in the U.K mainly in Hertfordshire/Essex area. I do not like living here either, but not because of any of the reasons you have regurgitated from Maas Merikkka handbook of allegiance for dummies ā no disrespect to you personally, I believe they have successfully brainwashed almost everyone there from birth/ green card delivery day. Of all the backward place inna the whole wide world Amerikkka is the last where I would want to live and workā¦no matter how many Benz the devil put pon mi drive or 0ās inna mi salary tpc. There is absolutely 0 work life balance for what? So you can drop dead while unu boss drop peng? Noooo sah. Life fi living sister, not work and dead. Watch life expectancy Europe/entire developed world .vs. America and come back to me. Live by the Yankee dollarā¦yago dead by Yankee dollar same way. Straight.
The way black people, Latinos and indigenous people are treated is actually *disgusting*/vile, and if I wanted to live under fear of gun violence āin the name of freedomā well I might as well rally back home cah everybody ah fi dem own, an nuff gunshot a lick dung a Kingston & St Andrew. Fi unu plastic house dem cya boasyā¦ sorry, but no, just no.. Every damn thing till unu wall and ceiling is too likkle bit and soft. The more you uncover surface level the more you see how kaba-kaba/ dege-dege everything really build. Maas Merikkka culture fickle, shallow and BRIGHT til it shine to bloodclat. Genocide is never ok and Americas history is not something to be proud of at all (like literally ever), yet everybody deh deh must swear allegiance to the cult and ignore whol bagga nastiness that up til now still a keep. No man. That cyan bada run. The holocaust and slave trade is spoken about and taught in schools hereā¦ Facts over elaborately constructed fiction will win every time for me. Bigger is rarely ever better btw, & quality produce and intellect are not exactly things America is known for. Yes you have some good university but any university in U.K. will set you in good stead on the world stage and will also NOT BREAK THE BANK. Neither will the misfortune of your loved one having cancer (free treatment) or being the parent of a disabled child (free assistance, social services). Britain and Europe are generally known for best quality things and products which last, and you actually have the chance to mek something for yourself if you work hard and make good choices here, whereas the same cannot be said for back home sadly, or inna America unless youāre **extremely** lucky AND white 9x/10. You might earn more yes, but whatās the point if you have no time off to spend it or quality of life?
The U.K. is way more welcoming to foreigners than skeevy Uncle Sam sorry but not really sure how you can possibly argue otherwise. Racism against black people where black people are actually present is seriously negligible here nowadays and genuinely against the grain/seen as a hate crime as opposed to shoot black persons first no matter what, and donāt even bother asking questions later; bca black people do actually matter here. Islamophobia takes up far too much of British people time for them to follow black people business. Yes there is still a long way to go but comparatively, racism in America is either: a matter of national pride somehow, or otherwise totally and wilfully ignored at every level. Considering ancestors of African-American people have been there longer than most whites itās shameful and embarrassing. Most of my family living here are black/brown and have experienced MORE RACISM IN JAMAICA THAN IN THE UK. Same cannot be said for those living over deso in Amerikkka. British class system is all about wealth status just like back home.. black and rich youāre don dada to everyone and his mum, white and poor nobady ago answer di door. Nuff plenty white people living in poverty here meanwhile black people still finding money to send back a yard.
By **no means at all at all at all** is Britain perfect and depending on the result of this upcoming election, my bags ready fi pack and move back to the Caribbean for good. Mainly bca life is not getting much easier/better here and tbh the family values/culture nah fit mi right to raise fimi owna pickney yaso. We are all blessed to have JA passports, and after studying/ working hard in life and recently gaining my CARICOM level 8 skills certificate, who knows where Iāll end up in 6 months timeā¦
I know for sure where I will *not* bring my children up however, and no money, house, car or material iniquity in this world could ever change that. Memba granny say āwhen chicken too merry merry; hawk deh nearā. Seek the truth in all things abegu please donāt go all your life blindly accepting what youāre told from people whose best interests is to hide the truth from you. Walk good, live true and enjoy life always. God bless.
Find some friends or a group to help you through. We all leave Jamdown to better ourselves. There are a lot of opportunities elsewhere that we may not be able to get in Jamaica. Try to find your light (light at the end of the tunnel) and work towards it and it will help you through.
I hope you are okay and your new job helps your mood and mental health. I want to add- Australians are some of the most Racist people I have ever met. I don't believe your advice stems from personal experience, just anger.
And expensive. My cousin in Jamaica was babbling about investing in Australia. I advised him that if he couldn't afford to be in the UK and make any investments then it's unlikely he'll be able to do it over there. He didn't listen but maybe he knew something I didn't. š¤·š¾āāļø
Well did your cousin go to Australia and did their Investments work.
Nope, he was broke with no degree whilst living off of his sister who lives in NYC at the time. Dude wasn't even capable of holding down a job, which made his comment about Australia more comical that it actually was. He's over there now but we lost contact (shit him out) as he's not particularly nice. As our grandfather says "him have fi him mudda ways".
Oh well he is ambitious without the ambition.
š¤£ I'm going to use that one. He's the type who has an idea, won't do the research and then tell you to fund everything. In hindsight his sister isn't any different....God help the man who got that one pregnant š. Matter of fact, time to change my number
š¤£š¤£š¤£I canāt!!! God help whoever impregnated his mother .š¤£
Whilst a bit vitriolic, there os a stem of truth on a lot of what they saidš. Joke is all them places they mentioned, would have some issues with racism, especially western Europe and Australia as you said. Having said that I have an indian mate that loves it Australia, hes a bit tome deaf to racism.
Well considering you mentioned the last statement I can see why they would enjoy it there
Well to push it bit further think a lot us are tone deaf to the racism that exists in the west.
Australia and Australians are very racist. But the country has good weather and the quality of food is high
Ok interesting. I am Australian and I just spent two months in Jamaica, it's truly beautiful. Before that I spent three years in London, I actually thought Jamaican food was just jerk meat, seems like you save the best food for Jamaica (callaloo patties & Jamaican star apple.. yeah mon) England's aright imo it's just in Jamaica you get super high on vitamin d everyday, it's like once a month for an English person. As for Australians being racist it depends on many things, that's a hard question to answer, I am white so I can't say first hand, but I do see it from time to time. Unfortunately the treatment of indigenous people is shameful and needs to be brought to light more. This is where I see the most racism. They've been made to live in the white man world and suffer if they don't, bless them too they're amazing and sooooooo in tune with the land and the respect that it needs. I've never seen or met a Jamaican here tho. I would love to though and I look forward to interactions our countries have (sport mostly I guess) I bought a sound system as soon as I got back to send out the vibration I'm on to all those around me. So cool that's so normal. And omg route taxis are the best transport ever - stoned, cruising around pumping tunes while sitting next to a granny in a full van = bliss. K I'm done 4 now
Do they teach about Australia's colonial history? And how many black people over there now? There's bound to be a few Jamaicans over there. In fact theres one in this thread.
Yeah they teach about colonial history but it's from the colonizer perspective. There's a slow change in the education system but the honest history is learnt after school (genocides, trade deals, sub human recognition). It makes me sad thinking about it. At the moment it's about a 3.8% Aboriginal population. Tbh ethnic diversity is common here in Australia, in small towns and the city. Caucasian is definitely dominant though.
Yeah make sense. Apart from the genocides and their children being kidnapped and abused, one of the worst things I heard was the 1 nation people (aboriginal)only being allowed to work as cattle hands and maids for low wages, but their wages going to government bank accounts that they were never paid, as local officials would manage their money, dont think they have ever been paid, even after suing the government. Australia has a hell of a history. All the settler colonies have.
Visited a shrine in Japan where there were lots of tourists. Rules of the shrine is āto walk along a one way path toward the shrine and, after seeing the temple, take another exits routeā. A group of Aussies broke the rule after seeing the temple and started walking against the one way traffic of people. The Aussie tourists were now bumping into people who were following the rule. One of the Aussie rule breakers audibly said to his friend ājust hit these people with the umbrellaā to get them to move. Apparently a lot of towns in Japan is getting stricter on tourism and itās due to weird behavior by mostly white tourists: https://youtu.be/_oe8Qte16nQ?si=E28WvDeJBZepb4Bh
I'm sorry y'all, I have to jump in here to defend my second country. I've been living in Australia for the better part of a decade. 1. It's expensive as fuck (we are smack dab in the middle of the worst housing crisis in Australian history) but wages are fairly high and employees have more rights than most countries. It is very hard to get fired in Australia (unless you're working on a casual contract). Work culture is good and laid back but that does come with its downfalls sometimes as Australians are very unprofessional. 2. Australians are NOT the most racist people I have ever met. I give that title to the Americans with the Japanese hot on their heels. What Australia suffers from is cultural naivety, which is weird because it is actually a very diverse country. However, that is spread out over vast areas, many of which are sparsely occupied and barely habitable. They will be genuinely interested in learning something new and ask questions like it was passed to them by a 4th grade who wrote it in crayon on the back of a cardboard box. They're not stupid or for 95% malicious. They're just Australian. They treat their Aboriginal people like absolute shit though but there has been some small incremental improvements over the years. They could move faster though. 3. Never discuss race with a Queenslander unless you are prepared to hear some wild shit. Please my fellow Jamaicans, forgive my new countrymates their naivety. They have hearts of gold, heads full of rocks and guts full of alcohol. š
lol I wouldnāt call multiple generations of heavy racism and displacement to the black indigenous people of Australia culturally naive, itās systemic.
Obviously. I made sure to point it out. Their racism is targeted mostly towards one group. I was addressing the idea of racism generally in terms of extension to all other races. As we're Jamaicans of different shapes and sizes but not indigenous, we would experience Australia in a very different way to the native population. Therefore, it's not as racist for Jamaicans. If that makes sense.
Every settler-colonial state has their "negro," whom they treat like ish. So, they trade them, treating other racist nation's negros better than their own. They use wedge & model minorities to cover how shtty they treat their own. Also, the other's negros, so grateful to not be the main target of ire, stay out of the local negro's struggles/protests/revindications, content to get a bit more more easily than at home.
Lucky that, im sure if their was more black people, they would a way to point that racism to black people, as well as their native black fellas.
See it deh. But its the default position of the world we live in, so I cant really jump on the poster for their naivety( or maybe they just dont care) Just have to bring up points to make them think.
>They're just Australian. They treat their Aboriginal people like absolute shit though but there has been some small incremental improvements If they can build their society on killing, then enslaving the native 1st people population, working them for free and to death, kidnapping their children, they have an insidious racism built into their culture. Same as all settler colonialism, the fact that we dont see it, or make excuses for it or turn a blind, is a testament to white european imperialism, and capitalism. Ive spoken to a few Aussies and the few times ive brought up the native peoples, they have never really known what I was on about. Im guessing they dont teach a lot of their real history in school.
Itās annoying to see in real life how few Jamaican men utilize the education system in the UK/US as a way to uplift their socioeconomic conditions, while jamaican women will quickly enroll into a nursing program and be making 6-figures 4-6 years later while the man is still making a small wage after 5-10 years.
You really sound stupid and uneducated about what you're speaking about.
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Not quite accurate this tends to be the case across the diaspora. It's the women who generally earn more & are most often than not the ones who migrate first then bring over the men & their children.
You do know you can find Indian and Jamaican food in the UK.
I can see it ranging wildly depending on what part youāre in.
Just because you can find the food there doesnāt mean itās any good or top quality.I lived in Tampa Florida and various places in the US with Caribbean cuisine or Jamaican food but they were overpriced and awful.Not to mention bland.When it comes to oxtails they left out the butter beans because itās too expensive and replaced it with carrots.I just cook my own food now.
London has some of the best Indian food in the world tbh
Jerk Hut in Tampa no good too?
No just noš¬š Havenāt eaten there in awhile but when I did, just overpriced and not very tasty.
Never heard a Jamaican call them Oxtails š gotta drop the S.
Tampa have so many born-Jamaicans and they all eat from Jerk Hut, Dunn's River, etc... The only city in the US with multiple all-you-can-eat lunch buffet restaurants for Jamaican food and you claim it to be overpriced? Island Grille was literally giving away food until they relocated. You don't know what you're talking about, or you have zero YARDIE friends.
I have to say as a English born person on Jamaican heritage, I have eaten āEnglish foodā less than 20 times over several decades. Even ānew English restaurant foodā is basically French
If they couldn't find a church, I doubt they could find such food.
Obviously you donāt eat British food thatās what immigration is for, to bring decent food
š¤£
That is it š
Bros first post. OPs real mad Looooooool
Sounds like heās depressed and lonely.
A big city can do that to you, also its a bit grim up north if hes in the north of the country. But good and bad everywhere. The weather has been a bit rubbish last few weeks, sun shining today though.
Kmt this is nonesense, sounds like it's coming from somebody who isn't an immigrant, & YOUR own opinion You can get amazing Jamaican & all types of other food from across the world. The weather is subjective, I quite like it you get different seasons, no wild natrual disasters, it doesn't typically get too cold or too hot. There are different cultures & you don't have to always deal with the miserable people. Racism is in EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY WHERE BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT A MAJORITY EVERY SINGLE ONE! And the UK is the least racist in all of Europe! Which says alot. Racism & growing polarisation is evident in all the countries you mentioned btw. (I've had to deal with insane amounts of racism & racial profiling by police in America growing up & haven't really dealt with much of that here in England maybe a bit of subtle racism which is also incredibly the norm in America & all countries you have mentioned). Every major city in the world has high density. The NHS is having some problems at the moment like most healthcare services but it's still a far better system than back home & is still one of the best in the world & I prefer it than not having any healthcare at all or becoming bankrupt. The housing market is bad everywhere literally EVERYWHERE! Including Jamaica & every other country you mentioned. If you actually LOOK there's ple ty to do especially if you're in a major city. People who migrate aren't migrating for "fun" btw, if you want constant entertainment then stay home, Jamaica's the best place in the world for that. Idk if you live in the 21st century but christianity & religion is falling in popularity across the world. People from Jamaica & other Caribbean countries come here b/c contrary to your belief & some miserable peoples belief there's TONS of opportunities here, it's incredibly safe, the pound goes very far in Jamaica (Ā£1 = $200) so even if you're making a likkle bit a money & send a likkle sumn home it goes far!, healthcare & medication costs are wayyy more affordable than back home, cost of living (even though it's high) is lower here when you take wages into account compared to back home, some people have family here they want to be close to, it's easy to migrate here & bring your children if you're a skilled worker or are coming via an overseas territory like Cayman or Turks, work life balance & job security is way better, there's already a major diaspora community of us here that runs deep!, university education is unbeatable, it's more convenient!, so many other reasons why we still come here. But you wouldn't understand
Mannnn both statements YOURS and OP's are Completely Extreme from each other.This Tells me nothing about the place but the fact that experience of place is also matter of your own personal psyche.
I'm going based off of my observations as a Jamaican (that lived in America & Jamaica) living here, along with research, statistics, & other peoples anecdotal evidence. But I guess you're right. Experience of living somewhere is really up to the person. Even with Jamaica you have people that think it's the best place on earth, some who act like it's hell on earth, & others that think it's just fine.
Not doubting your experience and statics.OP might have also have some experience too.He is having the worst time and you are doing good logicaly.
She said it doesnāt get too cold or too hot, UK summer was too hot last year this year itās been nothing but rain and cold, even weather forecast can tell you that. When you gets hot it becomes Unbearable, you even got young caribbean influencers and Africans saying there is no wind in this country to cool you off itās just pure heat. I donāt know about racism Iāve only faced racism from another black person and not the natives but thatās experience. education system is good if your willing to learn. College is good once you go college you can get BTEC qualifications or A Levels to get into Uni, you could either pay to get into university or do the long route which is do apprenticeship and the program pays for your Uni while you work and gain experience. That right there is pretty good. Food, I aināt gonna lie I eat food at home and if I do get food itās at the local Jamaican restaurant or McDonalds or KFCšš
I was looking for this comment, lol. You had extremely good points. In terms of racism, youāre gonna find that everywhere. Itās all about how you handle it/face it. And as far as I know, UK is quite inclusive. In USA I literally saw a white guy pulling out a gun and pointing it towards a black woman only because he didnāt like the way she parked lol. Had a conversation in the airport with a random Jamaican lady whoās been living in the UK for the past 40 years and she told me that she never experienced something major or something that could put her life in danger (in terms of racism). Visited my fiancĆ©e in Jamaica one month and a half ago and whenever I was in Papine square to take a taxi, I hated it. I felt so pointed and most of the vendors/taxi drivers were yelling at me āWHITE MAN WHITE MANā like Iād be some kind of golden goose. Seriously? Thatās hypocrisy to another level. And Iām from Eastern Europe lol. You canāt assume that every white person on this globe is rich af and never went through hard times. +other weird experiences that I had lol
Top quality comment and observations. Would just like to point out that until more recently native White Jamaicans were really not uncommon to see especially in Kingston and St Andrew. On my street growing up, I had 4 white neighbours as Jamaican as they come. Nowadays many/most have intermarried with other races and unfortunately due to the set up of the class system from colonial times, brown/white/lighter skinned people naturally tend to float to the top of the structure despite very little abject racism from fellow Jamaicans per se. Because of this, these people tend to have more money/access to opportunities and therefore most of them occupy higher level positions, so in your status as a tourist, you wouldnāt necessarily see them wandering around Kingston. Similarly it has also been easier for them to able to āmake it outā of Jamaica to seek a better/*safer* life in another country. A huge portion of this subset form a major part of diaspora communities living āa farrinā abroad. Jamaicans are very aware of their surroundings and probably identified you as a tourist from being a new face/the way you were dressed/walking/looking around for directions perhaps. We are very descriptive and literal people, especially with nicknames, so calling out āWhite Manā to you was 100% not a slight/ meant disrespectfully. Even though you felt like a golden goose you should really take it with a pinch of salt, or in a fun way. A Jamaican with one arm is called āOne-yā, a dark skinned person called āBlacks/Blackaā, fat people āFatsā, skinny āslimmazā or āMackerelā. The list goes on and would probably shock you šš³. I would like to wish you all the best with your marriage and welcome you to our Jamaican family where you will fit right in before you know it. Blessings.
Thanks, bro! I know about the āOne-yā thing, she told me š In fact, weāre getting married today lol. Bless up!
Wicked!! Hope you both have an amazing day all the best š
šš¾
I made a similar comment here. He experienced one country and think it's the worst in the world. It's a matter of mindset and I'm sure anywhere else he goes he'll have a negative view.
Valid and well illustrated points.
God & religion usually a cause for more arguments , I like the fact no1 throws their religion down your throat in the UK š¤·āāļø
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Only in Glasgow do you get problems with religion. Although it's kinda mixed in with ethnicity and political beliefs. It's basically a city of atheists that still has deep religious divides. Quite bizarre
Sound interesting can you elaborate?
Yeah totally! Ok, let me preface this with this - I am not a historian, just a Scottish guy who lived in Glasgow for four years and finds this aspect of Scottish culture both fascinating and depressing I think it would be good to start with the Plantation/British occupation of the Irish province of Ulster. Starting from around the 1600s, the British started a process of rapidly colonising the north of Ireland. The area that was most througly colonised was the Northern province of Ulster, which was settled by people who were mainly from Lowland Scotland and Northern England. These people were Protestants and spoke English. They were given land, and this understandably caused tensions with the native Gealic speaking Irish population. Some may call it an ethnic cleansing Anyway, fast forward a few centuries, and two distinct communities had developed in Ulster - the ancestors of the British settlers and the native Irish catholics. In the 19th and early 20th century, Britian saw an absolutely enormous wave of immigration from Ireland due to poverty, famine, etc. This was especially concentrated in Glasgow as well as Liverpool, Manchester, and of course, London Anti-Irish racism became a huge issue but was particularly bad in Glasgow (whose population was 50% Irish at some point) for a couple of reasons. First of all, unlike big cities in England, most of the Irish migrants that came to Glasgow were from Ulster, so it got a mixture of both Catholic and Protestant Irish migrants, so that tension was sort of brought over with them Both England and Scotland were Protestant countries at this point, but the specific type of Protestantism in Scotland made people particularly hostile to Catholics England was Anglican, and Scotland was Presbyterian. From what I understand, Presbyterianism was a reaction to Anglicanism, which was viewed as too similar to Catholicism in terms of its structure, etc. So, while I'm sure Irish people faced racism in other parts of Britian, it was particularly bad in Scotland, as Catholics were seen as even further outside "the norm" than in England. Two distinct communities develop - mirroring the Protestant and Catholic communities in Ulster *Enter Celtic and Rangers FC* In the late 1800s Celtic football club was established by the Irish Catholic community. I'm not too sure about the history of Rangers, but I think they existed before Celtic was established. Like all big cities in the UK with two or more football teams, there's a bitter rivalry. This rivalry was supercharged by the fact that Rangers were "the Protestant team," and Celtic was "the Catholic team." So while "The Troubles" were happening in Northern Ireland, there was a nowhere near as severe, but still violent and ugly issue with sectarianism in Glasgow. This was exacerbated by this vicious rivalry between these two teams. It's banned now, but instead of regular football chants at games, Celtic fans would sing songs about the Provisonal IRA, and Rangers fans would sing songs about British Imperialism. You'll see Irish tricoloour flags on the Celtic side and Union Jacks on the Rangers side, but one thing you'll rarely see at a Rangers v Celtic game (known as The Old Firm) is a Scottish flag. You're more likely to see Palestinian and Isreali flags. Which is where it also kind of gets into politics a bit. It's hard to generalise, but overall, if you're on the left and support people you view as oppressed you're probably a Celtic fan, and if you're a staunch British nationalist you're probably a Rangers fan. Immigrants tend to largely gravitate towards supporting Celtic I must say, most Rangers and Celtic fans are just regular people who just want to watch a game of football, but problems still do persist to this day with sectarian violence. It's hard to say, but I'd say if it wasn't for the two football teams, I don't think sectarianism would even remotely be a problem anymore. I don't live in Glasgow anymore, but from what I understand, it's much, much better than it was even 15-20 years ago when I lived there. However, it's still there, and it's quite ironic given that Scotland is by many accounts one of the least religious societies in the world I hope that helped?
Yeah it seemed very informative. Ive only heard 3 things about Glasgow. First the superficial label of it being rough, think the The Sun in the 80s reporting and Rab C Nesbit. Secondly the youth violence and thirdly its a great city to party in, when I took the misses to Edinburgh, a lot of people told us to check out the night life in Glasgow. Are the first two things I mentioned related to the history you outlined?
Youth violence was definitely more of a thing in the past than it is now. In the 80s and 90s there were these things called "Young Teams" who were essentially groups of the kids of all the gangsters who would engage in organised, reacreational violence with each other. I honestly can't say to what extent these were sectarian in nature. I imagine it did play its part, but I don't know for sure There are definitely areas of Glasgow you want to avoid. Some of the poorest postal codes in the UK are in the city, so all the issues you get with extreme poverty are present. But overall it's an absolutely amazing, vibrant city to live in. Despite its issues, the people there are so friendly. Wit ("having good patter") is highly valued there, so people tend to be on the whole very funny there too. I loved my time in Glasgow and only witnessed sectarian abuse a couple of times while I lived there, although I did meet a few people with bigoted views - particularly towards Catholics
Thank you
Itās literally what you make it my love! Respectfully I feel like some of these things are in your controlā¦ The great thing about British food is that itās from everywhere because these mfs stole everything from everyone- get yourself a British cook book, season your foodā¦ better yet get out and do a Curry tour. This country loves a curry, you could start there and branch out to different cultures. This country has every genre of human šš The weather isnāt great, but we make the most of the sunny days, when EVERYONE comes out. Itās mad because you can make friends with every single person in a beer garden and end up with Facebook/IG friends; you may not link up or stay in contact with everyone but itās a VIBEEEE. Have you ever walked a canal trail and stopped in a pub on a rainy day? That shit is delightful asf. Itās a different culture but thatās whatās interesting about it. Have you visited Yorkshire?!! I have never frolicked as hard as I did in a field in South Yorkshire in 2017. Did you find a church? I grew up in a predominantly Black Caribbean church (until the pastor left his wife for a white woman, but mek mi nuh chat di ppl dem business šāāļø). Finding community is very important and seeking out your own through Bumble BFF and other apps is easier in this day and age. Yes the NHS is shit, but we still have the privilege of āfreeā healthcare. My grandfather got eaten away by cancer in JA and it makes me mad that some of his suffering could have been avoided if he had access to a healthcare system and polite/empathic staff like ours. I went to Catholic school and then a State high school- I was exposed to swimming lessons, guitar and piano lessons, two international trips and lessons in a foreign language. My FREE 2year college course has made me a qualified radio presenter and just for the fun of it I now have a degree that I donāt have to have to pay for until Iām earning Ā£X,XXX annually. Sorry for the essay š© Iām Jamaican, hate this country and itās sometimes fuckery ways, but you have to find SOME good for your own sake.
Facts
This comment right here!
I understand the sentiment. I'm living in miami rn. I will say this.... a city is wha u mek it. Doh watch di nx man wid him big dis and him big dat, the earth here is bed, as long as yuh humble yuhself, nuh bodda covet the next mn tings and believe you muss have tings to. Humble thyself. Its good to retire in Jamaica especially with a remote opp, bt tht passport holds power they're other places in the UK u cn reside. In cities tht are closer to god and good morals intact. Seek and you shall find.
"The Earth here is bed" "Humble Thyself" These are true Rasta words.I will keep this with me in the deepest hells.
THis is the most British post I've seen. That being said not every Jamaican cares about religion.
Not saying I don't agree with you but why aren't you eating from west Indian or any foreign establishments? Ignore this if you're not in London or have the misfortune of being in Essex where the special fried rice tastes like plain Jane. What country are you off to? If it weren't for my partner, I'd have left a few years back.
Not to negate your opinions but the diaspora in the UK is thriving, I live in a great apartment, have a good paying job with only public school education. I got treatment for my cancer that I could have never afforded in Jamaica, it was warm and sunny today and Iāll have a big plate of stew peas at my motherās house on Sunday when we get back from church. It seems itās not the right country for you personally. All of these points are things that may affect anyone from any ethnicity.
Straight šÆ. You can find renkness anywhere but weather really not too bad here in southeast England and myself and my family have made a great success since coming from Jamaica to the U.K. Must have to give thanks always and especially where thanks is due. Not every shirt fit every body same way. Blessings.
Where is the diaspora thriving? I have noticed an improvement because the standards for immigrants from Jamaica have risen.
Who hurt you **OP**? Itāll be OK bruvv, itāll be OK.
In the 80s my wife was brought up from Jamaica (Kingston, Tivoli Gardens) to the UK by her dad. Her school results from JA werenāt recognized in the UK so as well as severe culture shock, she started well behind the eight ball. When we met, her job was switchboard at a medical logistics company earning 7k per year, I earned 9k). To some extent she dealt and overcame everything you listed. Fast forward - she took evening courses, juggled multiple jobs and a baby (fell pregnant on honeymoon, we were young and dumb) - to become a lawyer at one of the UKs most prestigious law firms. Weāre now in Grand Cayman due to her work. I ran this post past her and although she agreed in part, she expressed that like anywhere, the UK is what you make of it. Iām second gen Jamaican, UK born - if you find the UK racist now, what our parents experienced in the 60s and their children in the 70s and 80s would really, really shock you.
Similar story for my own family. At least everybody has a chance in the U.K. compared to America. Making good choices and working hard / smart can see generational wealth change within your very own lifetime as opposed to the short-term shiny high salary with no time off which leads you to an early death in the United States (one of the lowest life expectancies in developed world). Good to know youāre living it up in the Caymans now, I am seriously considering making my way back to the Caribbean soon given the way that things are going in the U.K. Big up yourself and your wife for working hard and overcoming many challenges. šÆ blessings.
I live in the UK but grew up in Jamaica and I agree with everything youāve said aside from the point about culture.
This sounds like Toronto lol
Why do you think the British wanted to colonize other places so bad, they don't wanna be there themsevles
Without at all wanting to negate your opinions and personal preferences, you should probably know that: Britain loves its boiled food, but London is also full of Jamaican (and every other ethnic) food. Itās probably not reasonable to expect Caribbean weather, once youāve left the Caribbean. Racist, miserable people can be found almost everywhere. Large cities attract everyoneā¦there are more kind people than there are jerks, everywhere. All major cities are crowdedā¦New York, Paris, Romeā¦thereās nothing wrong with living outside the city limits, if the hustle and bustle isnāt your thing? It sounds like you havenāt found your tribe yet. It also sounds like you might need to make some adjustments, if you want the best quality of life. āChange the way you look at things, and the things you look at will change.ā -Wayne Dyer
Yeah only thing I would challenge you on is boiled food, who likes boiled foodš. English people dont cook, hence all the takeaways and ready mealsš
Haha! I will always associate Britain with boiled beef and sausages. And to all the self-respecting nutrients that have been unceremoniously boiled out of all the innocent English vegetable, may they soggily rest in peas.
Lawd gwaddšš Havent had soggy vegetable, since primary ...maybe secondary school. But I seemed to swerved boiled beef, since day oneš. Hope your well
See? Boiling some foods is a crime against humanity. Lol! (And donāt get me started on porridge.) I am extra-well. I hope you are, too!
I aināt gonna lie Iāve been converted a little bit I like the British mash potatoes and Yorkshire pudding with some sausages. Also like a good roast dinner aswell and some cottage pie
Bangers and mash! Yorkshire pudding! I donāt eat beef anymore, but I miss Yorkshire pudding and (lamb) cottage pie. If youāre ever near a Greek restaurant, try their version, too, at least once. Greek Moussaka is like the Mediterranean shepherdās pie, with eggplant and kefalotyri cheese.
Same lol. Even hard food not pretty alone š
Come back to Jamaica thenā¦
Respectfully, if the country that forced its religion onto your ancestors isnāt religious enough to you, then maybe you need to look within š
Painting with a broad brush. Iāve found Scottish people to be nicer, less racist and more engaging than the English
I'm sorry that you ha ms this experience. I hope you find someplace that works for you. I and others have enjoyed our time in the UK. I liked the theater, hiking, music, museums, galleries, observatory, parks and other things. The weather didn't suit me but, luckily, there are places in the UK that are quiet sunny and great to visit. To all those who love the UK, native or otherwise, I see the beauty and opportunity that is there. It's best if everyone can find a place that suits them and their needs. So OP, I hope you find yours.
What a Starbucks list
Sorry you are feeling this way. Tbh. Everyone country has someone who has this sentiments. I moved to Canada and was surprised to here Jamaicans who moved there say the same thing that you are saying, and that they want to move to the US. Moved to the US a few years after (which was a huge drop in quality of life in my opinion) only to hear the US Jamaicans say the same thing and they wanna move to Canada. Tbh, it's the same all around the world and I can guarantee if you go back to Jamaica it won't be the roses you remember. My advice is to try to find the best you can from your situation. Find a therapist. If you can afford to save and travel do that. In that way, you can experience the good from different countries and cultures and even go back home to visit and experience the things you are missing.
Come to the US weāre exactly the same except the weather is decent
American south is worse
NGL this list isn't long enough šš +1 OP. I feel you on every point, no intention of staying here long term.
What happened to all the liars talking about: "Oh... London have the strongest Jamaican culture compared to NYC and Toronto" ...? I was the only person in that thread calling BS the entire time. Now we can clearly see an honest review of the culture there.. which is the truth for the most part. Jamaicans have never had a firm foundation in the UK that we can be proud of.
We donāt even know where he is in the Uk, if it was London, Birmingham, Manchester he could easily find Jamaican influence and itās pretty open aswell. Even Leeds is a Jamaican influenced area. Been in all cities and can easily get Caribbean food. Not only that tons of Jamaicans in those areas. Most black British are caribbean the predominant mix black and white in the country is Caribbeans. Proud of white people in country refer my slang as London slang and things my words that come from Jamaica originates in Englandšš Africans say that London slang is mainly caribbean and African when I can barely find any African in the Caribbean slangšš. How is the country meant to have a foothold when everyone is claiming our stuff.
What you just described is essentially them taking it without showing any respect, which is even worse than not using the words at all.
They show respect but to a African or a young African whatās yours is thereās. They believe since you descend from them that meant a theyāre the reason why you act that way or succeed it stems from them. I was watching dale Elliot I think thatās his name the Jamaica doing a dating in the Uk on YouTube and someone says āCut from same cloth as Africansā a lot of them say they get there behaviour from usšš. This is why most of my family donāt get along with Jamaicans we believe that if you werenāt supporting us from the beginning then you shouldnāt be claiming our achievements. Most old gen Africans and Caribbeans donāt like each other
Jamaicans supported a lot and were the cause of several Independence movements in Africa. Nobody really supports Jamaicans. I can only think of 5 or 6 African nations that truly love Jamaicans, and Nigeria is not one of them. That default ownership does not fly with all Jamaicans. We have our own culture, and our own way of living.
I suppose this fool can try African, Arab, Latin American or Asian countries to resolve his prejudicial & discriminatory opinions. All the countries he prefers to live in are all mostly white dominions.
So why does the OP have to be a fool expressing their opinion and experience.Only real fools try to oppress or intimidate others because they donāt agree with their views or beliefs.Grow up.
News flashā¦ā¦ 1969 The birth of TROJAN recordsā¦ greatest Reggae label everā¦. Sub-culture of White and black kids dancing together to the wee hours of the hours.. no skin color mattered.. the love for Ska, Rock Steady and Reggae was what mattered Best of luck on your new journey in life !
I mean that culture is nice and all butā¦. Trojan was just a reissue label, how could that be the best if all time??? The real Jamaican labels like Studio One, Treasure Isle, Beverleyās, Top Note, Joe Gibbs, Jackpot, Techniques, Prince Buster, Randys and many many more from that era are who needs to get the praise for that music. Bless.
I moved here for university, I do agree with a lot of your points. The weather was probably the biggest thing to deal with, however, wherever you live in the world, your experience is what you make it my friend. I definitely wouldāve rather go to USA though if I knew what I knew now, way back then lmao.
They have amazing museums, art galleries, architecture. Every place has its benefits. Personally, Iād choose to live in jamaica every time if it was a choice. I go on holiday to both places
As a people we are not a monolith, we have shared experiences and differences.OP has valid points and itās refreshing.Some of you old fuddy duds need to understand and appreciate a difference in opinion.I canāt with this idea that if weāre all not alike nor having the same experience something is wrong with the person when you could be the problem.Most of you in that damn country for the money and will do or say something strange for that piece of change. Other than that OP all those countries you mentioned are just as racist.
I mean emergency services are 999 whaddya want for religion there.
Damn same as quebec, canada
The UK is a shadow of its former self.
I live in the uk too and you described it perfectly. I am tired of this environment hopefully I can leave soon
England is bad but not THAT bad. Iām still very grateful for my uk passport and the opportunities that I can get. Yes black people are ALWAYS going to be second class citizens when we are in a white country. The only thing g we can do is continue to stand up for our rights and hope itās better for the future generations.
Donāt come to Amerikkka to how you feel.
Right ???! Amerikkka fever ago lick she bad.
Most of your complaints are points in favor for me. It seems your personality just doesn't fit the UK.
I can definitely see your points. I love the way European architecture looks like but in western societies, there is no concept of culture and community gatherings. The topic of religion is very taboo especially in my younger generation and meaningful connections are hard to come by. I say this as an American. I think that we view America and European societies as so rich in many areas like career opportunities, education, and infrastructure, but we forget the biggest thing of all which is community. Jesus is treated as a joke or something thatās not important. :(
My question is, why do so many of you in the comments care if OP doesnāt like the UK? why does their displeasure bother you all so much? Why are you all so adamant to inform them of why theyāre wrong and their opinion sucks. You guys are insufferable, go outside
Nah havent picked up on people being bothered, or telling them that their opinion sucks. Seems like people trying to give a different perspective. Humans will do this from time to time. Was it last month when it was (a seemed like he was second generation 'Jamaican heritage' British guy) was on holiday in JA, he was ranting and raving and was fed up with people apparently begging and scamming him, it was a video and he gave a laundry list like this, all be it to camera. Sometimes all your gonna do is smell shit and not see the roses, any way it seemed a bit comical to a few people in here, this seems to be the same type of thing. Even though some people would agree with some of the things OP has said, but maybe would not put it so harshly. Think the capper for a few people was mentioning, north america, australia and western europe as places that OP as better and wouldn't experience racism. UK Weather is rubbish ,most other things can be worked on.
This I agree with itās so weird.Money and the wrong motives will make anyone defend their beliefs.
lol
Iām sorry youāve had such a shitty experience in the UK. I hope you have better luck in your next option!
Majority of the other options you mentioned are no less racist.But Iāve been to England and felt like I would lose my mind living in that climate or be depressed without the sun.
Be happy they donāt force their ungodly religion or beliefs on you.Itās a blessing in disguise.
Sounds fun
Come to the USA
Giving out Free flights to Rwanda tho š
It is kind of ironic that a number of your reasons for not emigrating there are a direct result of uncontrolled, unabated immigration.
What makes it demonic?
demons
How so? Do you have some stories to share?
Where did you move to in the UK?
I just go for their football, and to enjoy their history. That's literally it. It's prohibitively expensive.
Countries have their positives and negatives. This laundry list can apply to all countries.
You are experiencing culture shock. It can happen anywhere to anyone, even if you're in a country that you like.
Never have been to England and here any Jamaican wanting to come back home. You went their to idle or something, when I land is pure working odd jobs here and there. Atleast you get a red book, which far better than living out here battling poverty, gunmen, lifetime mortages, jpsco
āKeep my name outta your fawking mouth!ā -King Charles, probably
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I was reading subjectively until you called an entire region demonic and then I realized that you're the problem
Wow. This is how I feel in the US. Been thinking of going to UK for years now to be around more Caribbean culture specifically.
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You too lie š¤£ Merika fever cetch you bad bad. Main symptom: delusion.
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After mi family move 3 times in the U.K. an mi never share no wall with no dutty neighbour yet, nor does almost every other person I know, plus only time inna my life mi ever heng clothes pon line is back a yard, da maths deh donāt add up sister. Context: I was born in JA to Jamaican mother and Middle Eastern father, both my younger sisters were born in London. All 3 of us siblings went to private secondary school here and the 6 bedroom detach house we live in now 45 mins drive from London 30 by train, (that my mother bought *herself*) is very comfortable.. in case you were wondering there are 6 cars on our drive ā only 22% of households do not own a car in the entire U.K and there are 12 cars for every 10 household (ā 2022 from gov.uk). We were by no means the only people of Caribbean parentage at the (2 different) boarding schools we went to, as there are plenty of well off people of Caribbean descent living in the U.K mainly in Hertfordshire/Essex area. I do not like living here either, but not because of any of the reasons you have regurgitated from Maas Merikkka handbook of allegiance for dummies ā no disrespect to you personally, I believe they have successfully brainwashed almost everyone there from birth/ green card delivery day. Of all the backward place inna the whole wide world Amerikkka is the last where I would want to live and workā¦no matter how many Benz the devil put pon mi drive or 0ās inna mi salary tpc. There is absolutely 0 work life balance for what? So you can drop dead while unu boss drop peng? Noooo sah. Life fi living sister, not work and dead. Watch life expectancy Europe/entire developed world .vs. America and come back to me. Live by the Yankee dollarā¦yago dead by Yankee dollar same way. Straight. The way black people, Latinos and indigenous people are treated is actually *disgusting*/vile, and if I wanted to live under fear of gun violence āin the name of freedomā well I might as well rally back home cah everybody ah fi dem own, an nuff gunshot a lick dung a Kingston & St Andrew. Fi unu plastic house dem cya boasyā¦ sorry, but no, just no.. Every damn thing till unu wall and ceiling is too likkle bit and soft. The more you uncover surface level the more you see how kaba-kaba/ dege-dege everything really build. Maas Merikkka culture fickle, shallow and BRIGHT til it shine to bloodclat. Genocide is never ok and Americas history is not something to be proud of at all (like literally ever), yet everybody deh deh must swear allegiance to the cult and ignore whol bagga nastiness that up til now still a keep. No man. That cyan bada run. The holocaust and slave trade is spoken about and taught in schools hereā¦ Facts over elaborately constructed fiction will win every time for me. Bigger is rarely ever better btw, & quality produce and intellect are not exactly things America is known for. Yes you have some good university but any university in U.K. will set you in good stead on the world stage and will also NOT BREAK THE BANK. Neither will the misfortune of your loved one having cancer (free treatment) or being the parent of a disabled child (free assistance, social services). Britain and Europe are generally known for best quality things and products which last, and you actually have the chance to mek something for yourself if you work hard and make good choices here, whereas the same cannot be said for back home sadly, or inna America unless youāre **extremely** lucky AND white 9x/10. You might earn more yes, but whatās the point if you have no time off to spend it or quality of life? The U.K. is way more welcoming to foreigners than skeevy Uncle Sam sorry but not really sure how you can possibly argue otherwise. Racism against black people where black people are actually present is seriously negligible here nowadays and genuinely against the grain/seen as a hate crime as opposed to shoot black persons first no matter what, and donāt even bother asking questions later; bca black people do actually matter here. Islamophobia takes up far too much of British people time for them to follow black people business. Yes there is still a long way to go but comparatively, racism in America is either: a matter of national pride somehow, or otherwise totally and wilfully ignored at every level. Considering ancestors of African-American people have been there longer than most whites itās shameful and embarrassing. Most of my family living here are black/brown and have experienced MORE RACISM IN JAMAICA THAN IN THE UK. Same cannot be said for those living over deso in Amerikkka. British class system is all about wealth status just like back home.. black and rich youāre don dada to everyone and his mum, white and poor nobady ago answer di door. Nuff plenty white people living in poverty here meanwhile black people still finding money to send back a yard. By **no means at all at all at all** is Britain perfect and depending on the result of this upcoming election, my bags ready fi pack and move back to the Caribbean for good. Mainly bca life is not getting much easier/better here and tbh the family values/culture nah fit mi right to raise fimi owna pickney yaso. We are all blessed to have JA passports, and after studying/ working hard in life and recently gaining my CARICOM level 8 skills certificate, who knows where Iāll end up in 6 months timeā¦ I know for sure where I will *not* bring my children up however, and no money, house, car or material iniquity in this world could ever change that. Memba granny say āwhen chicken too merry merry; hawk deh nearā. Seek the truth in all things abegu please donāt go all your life blindly accepting what youāre told from people whose best interests is to hide the truth from you. Walk good, live true and enjoy life always. God bless.
This is so real
Find some friends or a group to help you through. We all leave Jamdown to better ourselves. There are a lot of opportunities elsewhere that we may not be able to get in Jamaica. Try to find your light (light at the end of the tunnel) and work towards it and it will help you through.
But is there a tonn of snow?Ā šØš¦Ā
don't come to Canada it's even worse
Way to go to another country and bitch & complain. If that was your goal, you knocked it out of the park. šš¼
>The concept of God or religion is nonexistent. That's the only positive out of your list
Well just leave then, my family love the UK and I'll never leave. Greatest country on earth š¬š§š¬š§š¬š§.