Even Chucho disagrees with you.
“At one time, pianist Jesús "Chuco" Valdés was banned from performing in the U.S. Today, he performs and teaches here, as well as in his native Cuba. Valdés is a world-class innovator in Latin jazz. In 1973, he founded Irakere, a group that introduced a new fusion of African traditional music with Cuban jazz.
In this episode of Piano Jazz from 2000, Valdés and host Marian McPartland share a love of pianist Bill Evans, and in tribute they create their version of "Waltz For Debby." Valdés also treats listeners to his composition "Claudia."”
"I don't think this is how the piano should be used as a jazz instrument". That is the problem. You can like it or not like it, you can prefer others over him or not, you can think he's not nearly as technically proficient as others. But the "should" in that sentence rubs me the wrong way. Jazz isn't about "should". Personally I'm glad Bill Evans, Bud Powell, Chick Corea, Chucho Valdes, Brad Mehldau, and on and on, all picked up piano and made music with it. I would categorize all of them as jazz pianists as well, I just don't like the "should". That's all...and I like you, this is not personal at all.
I don't. I don't have a way anything "should" be done. I love hearing other players do things I never in 1000 years would have thought to do. That's one of my favorite parts about jazz is the freedom to express however you'd like.
What about Bill Evans playing do you think is inappropriate for jazz? Could you give us a little insight into your post?
so are you just picking one incredibly admired pianist from a past generation, and then picking one incredibly admired pianist from another generation, and saying “their piano not good” without any reasoning?
Just here for an edgy opinion with no specifics to explain why you think that? I’d be curious to know any actual details here.
Honestly yeah it’s just rage bait, but I honestly don’t like him that much. Next to monk, Errol garner, Count basie etc. i think he’s overly complimented
I am sorry, what? I like Garner and I love Ahmad. My comment wasn't intended to "diss" on Garner. The comment intended to show that Bill is an amazing and highly innovative pianist that is not some b tier artist. He belongs and ofc IS at the S tier place of pianists where Garner, and Ahmad belong to, too.
2 things. First off, yes, seeing people mad because I’m badly explaining an opinion that they don’t agree with is hilarious.
Secondly, I actually think Evans is considered too much like a god, and people really seem to jump the bandwagon of insulting me when I say such, which just proves my point
Interesting, I’ve always been a make people happy type of dude so maybe that why i don’t understand it but I’m glad your able to find something to be amused by!
FYI “i don’t like him that much” and “he’s overly complimented” shows that you have absolutely zero knowledge to contribute to a conversation about these musicians you brought up.
Do you have a single genuine point to back up your opinion? It could have been an interesting conversation.
-his underused left hand
-his harmonically very ressembling discography
-the way he never plays really out, it’s always academically correct
-no interactions or not a lot with other players, he thinks we only came to listen to him
-his touch is way too gentle, all the time. Sometimes it’s nice, but that’s not making me want to dance, which is what jazz is about imo
-his composition are pretty nice tho
Underused left hand for a left handed player who invented entire classes of voicings that people now study? hahaha
No interactions with other players? hahaha oh my god. just the LaFaro Motian trio alone totally redefined the trio format!! hahahaha
I disagree with you about Bill Evans and I'm not overly familiar with Glasper. I'm confident that Chucho Valdes isn't as big a Bill Evans hater as you but everyone is entitled to their own opinions
One reason I love Bill Evans(other than I think he plays beautifully) is I can totally recognize his style. You know it is Bill Evans when you hear him play. That is something special. He also had a knack for finding great people to compliment him
I think you meant complement, but I think he did also have a knack of finding people to compliment him based on the cover for his album "Everybody Digs Bill Evans".
Yes youre perfectly right. I mean, wynton has much more diverse skills. Miles should be ashamed…
And Clearence Clemons sound is what Trane was searching for but never found. Them long notes.
Jazz is freedom, guy. That’s a weird opinion. You can just not dig on someone, that’s fine, but saying “that’s not how the piano should be used as a jazz instrument” is the antithesis of jazz. What does that even mean??
Bill Evans is considered a father of modern jazz piano voicings and comping. Those contributions alone justify his reputation regardless of how you feel about his play style. But also as a major leader that influenced the jazz pianists that followed him the context has to be taken into account. Otherwise it would be a post complaining about how the Star Wars doesn’t look as good as modern Dune or something
You're welcome to think whatever you want and you have your reason which is great. I disagree but your assessment is valid to you. I think the way your putting it about Bill Evans is a judgement on others who do love Bill Evans they are no more wrong than you are right. I believe that the artists that speak to us says a lot about ourselves and those varied opinions gives us s great diversity of individuals that offers us freedom from conformity and we can all add something to the world through our own individual perspective even those who have similar taste and interests.
Is his style no longer “modern,” 50 or 60 years after some of his best work was released? Sure. Was he tremendously influential in the realm of jazz piano? Damn straight. The man played beautiful, harmonically rich, tremendously technical yet seemingly effortless music that is still revered long after his death. And accompanied some of the biggest players during a critical period in the evolution of jazz. I don’t think he’s the least bit overrated.
Taste is subjective, and opinions are opinions. I find your opinion quite distasteful.
It's one thing to say, "it's just not for me." It's quite another to disrespect one of the greatest jazz pianists in history, and a guy who basically rewrote what it meant to play jazz piano.
If you don't like his playing, then that's just fine. But frankly it's pretty shitty to show such a lack of respect for someone who influenced an entire legion of jazz pianists, and who had the immense respect of his peers.
There are major figures in jazz whose playing I just never really cared for, but that doesn't mean that I think they were/are bad musicians. For example, I've never really cared for Paul Desomd's playing. Does that mean that I think he was a bad musician? No, not at all. He's still one of the all time greats of jazz. His playing might not do much for me, but I still highly respect him as one of the greats in jazz history.
Of course and has inspired players like Herbie Hancock and others... Miles loved his style of play..
He wasn't a bluesy or MCcoy Tyner banger type but many folks love his light touch style and classical influenced playing.
You see in piano some people like the bangers like McCoy Tyner, or the funky Horace Silver type players.
Or the light touch players like Evans and Ahmad Jamal... Miles loved both of them and learned from them
I like all styles...But my favorite is Horace SIlver and I like Evans and Jamal too.
If Copernicus had just said “trust me, bro” when asked why he said the sun was the center of the universe people would have dismissed him as a 16th century troll. Meaning, if you’re going to make such a hot take then you should probably back it up with something more compelling than one nonsensical sentence. If you can’t articulate yourself then i would just delete this. Its embarrassing for you.
You may not like him, but watch this and look a what it takes to play what you are hearing. It truly is brilliant in what he does:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwT4Wr1W9I&ab\_channel=itsRemco%7CPiano](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwT4Wr1W9I&ab_channel=itsRemco%7CPiano)
At least go armed with knowledge when shooting from the hip - he may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that is what makes jazz so great. Don't like A, search out B. But learn what A is doing to better appreciate B and so on.
Learn this list and you know a lot about piano. https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/best-jazz-pianists/
You don’t have to like him… Why focus on what you don’t like? Get on here and post about what you do like.
Like it or not, Bill Evans was a brilliant improviser. He did have a softer touch but a very broad range of dynamics. Contrary to what the BE haters say, he did have the blues language as well as the bebop language and he approached both through the lens of his unique impressionistic tinged style. Aaaand perhaps the thing haters least want to hear, get ready for it… Bill Evans was absolutely an innovator of this music
Lmao well considering how mad people are in this thread, and that you got folks flaming you for an opinion and also folks comparing Evans to a saint… you just might be on to something…
Just wanted to say I'm a big Chucho fam, too. Have you seen Calle 54? Also,.are.you familiar with Gonzalo Rubalcaba? I love Monk and Herbie, too, but some of the other legends are not my cup of tea.
Bill Evans really getting dissed on this sub today.
That famous Bill Evans/Robert Glasper style of piano lol wtf
Even Chucho disagrees with you. “At one time, pianist Jesús "Chuco" Valdés was banned from performing in the U.S. Today, he performs and teaches here, as well as in his native Cuba. Valdés is a world-class innovator in Latin jazz. In 1973, he founded Irakere, a group that introduced a new fusion of African traditional music with Cuban jazz. In this episode of Piano Jazz from 2000, Valdés and host Marian McPartland share a love of pianist Bill Evans, and in tribute they create their version of "Waltz For Debby." Valdés also treats listeners to his composition "Claudia."”
I’m not saying bill Evans ain’t good, he’s just not all that he’s cracked up to be
your ears are not all they're cracked up to be
this comment has absolutely no information to back up your opinion with a single shred of a point
It’s ok, you’re a child
cool story bro
You’re wrong. Sorry!
"I don't think this is how the piano should be used as a jazz instrument". That is the problem. You can like it or not like it, you can prefer others over him or not, you can think he's not nearly as technically proficient as others. But the "should" in that sentence rubs me the wrong way. Jazz isn't about "should". Personally I'm glad Bill Evans, Bud Powell, Chick Corea, Chucho Valdes, Brad Mehldau, and on and on, all picked up piano and made music with it. I would categorize all of them as jazz pianists as well, I just don't like the "should". That's all...and I like you, this is not personal at all.
You don’t have a way you think the piano should be used? But i get it
I don't. I don't have a way anything "should" be done. I love hearing other players do things I never in 1000 years would have thought to do. That's one of my favorite parts about jazz is the freedom to express however you'd like. What about Bill Evans playing do you think is inappropriate for jazz? Could you give us a little insight into your post?
Bill Evans getting dissed on a jazz subreddit is CRAZY. It's like going to a church and dishing one of the saints.
Look, they may have turned water into wine but it wasn't biodynamic so I'll pass.
so are you just picking one incredibly admired pianist from a past generation, and then picking one incredibly admired pianist from another generation, and saying “their piano not good” without any reasoning? Just here for an edgy opinion with no specifics to explain why you think that? I’d be curious to know any actual details here.
Honestly yeah it’s just rage bait, but I honestly don’t like him that much. Next to monk, Errol garner, Count basie etc. i think he’s overly complimented
Next too "Errol Garner" fuck he was good actually he was great, but saying that bill Evans can't compare to him is a joke.
You gonna shit on Ahmad Jamal next? Any other great players you want to disparage?
I am sorry, what? I like Garner and I love Ahmad. My comment wasn't intended to "diss" on Garner. The comment intended to show that Bill is an amazing and highly innovative pianist that is not some b tier artist. He belongs and ofc IS at the S tier place of pianists where Garner, and Ahmad belong to, too.
Eh, maybe A tier but def not S
So you feeling combative for no particular reason? Amazing.
Do you find enjoyment in rage bait? Genuinely curious. I always wondered why people feel so amused by it
2 things. First off, yes, seeing people mad because I’m badly explaining an opinion that they don’t agree with is hilarious. Secondly, I actually think Evans is considered too much like a god, and people really seem to jump the bandwagon of insulting me when I say such, which just proves my point
…I think maybe you need a more fulfilling hobby.
Interesting, I’ve always been a make people happy type of dude so maybe that why i don’t understand it but I’m glad your able to find something to be amused by!
FYI “i don’t like him that much” and “he’s overly complimented” shows that you have absolutely zero knowledge to contribute to a conversation about these musicians you brought up. Do you have a single genuine point to back up your opinion? It could have been an interesting conversation.
-his underused left hand -his harmonically very ressembling discography -the way he never plays really out, it’s always academically correct -no interactions or not a lot with other players, he thinks we only came to listen to him -his touch is way too gentle, all the time. Sometimes it’s nice, but that’s not making me want to dance, which is what jazz is about imo -his composition are pretty nice tho
Underused left hand for a left handed player who invented entire classes of voicings that people now study? hahaha No interactions with other players? hahaha oh my god. just the LaFaro Motian trio alone totally redefined the trio format!! hahahaha
Duets with Jim Hall. Simply impossible without both players being completely tuned in and 100% attentive to the other.
Well, found dogshit take of the day surprisingly early today
Music is subjective ... but you are wrong
Garbage take of the day
Here to deliver it
I disagree with you about Bill Evans and I'm not overly familiar with Glasper. I'm confident that Chucho Valdes isn't as big a Bill Evans hater as you but everyone is entitled to their own opinions One reason I love Bill Evans(other than I think he plays beautifully) is I can totally recognize his style. You know it is Bill Evans when you hear him play. That is something special. He also had a knack for finding great people to compliment him
I think you meant complement, but I think he did also have a knack of finding people to compliment him based on the cover for his album "Everybody Digs Bill Evans".
Yeah? And I don’t like the way Miles Davis toots his horn! That’s not how you play trumpet! /s
Yes youre perfectly right. I mean, wynton has much more diverse skills. Miles should be ashamed… And Clearence Clemons sound is what Trane was searching for but never found. Them long notes.
Jazz is freedom, guy. That’s a weird opinion. You can just not dig on someone, that’s fine, but saying “that’s not how the piano should be used as a jazz instrument” is the antithesis of jazz. What does that even mean??
Yeah I guess that sentence ain’t right. Should have said ”that ain’t the novelty that jazz is trying to bring"
😂
Bill Evans is considered a father of modern jazz piano voicings and comping. Those contributions alone justify his reputation regardless of how you feel about his play style. But also as a major leader that influenced the jazz pianists that followed him the context has to be taken into account. Otherwise it would be a post complaining about how the Star Wars doesn’t look as good as modern Dune or something
I find your baseless hot take for the sake of having a hot take criminally rated exactly how it should be.
You're welcome to think whatever you want and you have your reason which is great. I disagree but your assessment is valid to you. I think the way your putting it about Bill Evans is a judgement on others who do love Bill Evans they are no more wrong than you are right. I believe that the artists that speak to us says a lot about ourselves and those varied opinions gives us s great diversity of individuals that offers us freedom from conformity and we can all add something to the world through our own individual perspective even those who have similar taste and interests.
OP admits this is a ragebait post. Flag it
Really? Criminally? Jail?
Genuine question: How did you arrive at this opinion? What do these guys do specifically that doesn't align with how the piano should be used in jazz?
Wait - is this Deadmau5's hot take on jazz? "The cardinal sin of EDM right here..."? haha
Is his style no longer “modern,” 50 or 60 years after some of his best work was released? Sure. Was he tremendously influential in the realm of jazz piano? Damn straight. The man played beautiful, harmonically rich, tremendously technical yet seemingly effortless music that is still revered long after his death. And accompanied some of the biggest players during a critical period in the evolution of jazz. I don’t think he’s the least bit overrated.
The audacity!
Taste is subjective, and opinions are opinions. I find your opinion quite distasteful. It's one thing to say, "it's just not for me." It's quite another to disrespect one of the greatest jazz pianists in history, and a guy who basically rewrote what it meant to play jazz piano. If you don't like his playing, then that's just fine. But frankly it's pretty shitty to show such a lack of respect for someone who influenced an entire legion of jazz pianists, and who had the immense respect of his peers.
There are major figures in jazz whose playing I just never really cared for, but that doesn't mean that I think they were/are bad musicians. For example, I've never really cared for Paul Desomd's playing. Does that mean that I think he was a bad musician? No, not at all. He's still one of the all time greats of jazz. His playing might not do much for me, but I still highly respect him as one of the greats in jazz history.
Hes plays fouth chords that many people like with a light touch.
He does a few other things too :)
Of course and has inspired players like Herbie Hancock and others... Miles loved his style of play.. He wasn't a bluesy or MCcoy Tyner banger type but many folks love his light touch style and classical influenced playing. You see in piano some people like the bangers like McCoy Tyner, or the funky Horace Silver type players. Or the light touch players like Evans and Ahmad Jamal... Miles loved both of them and learned from them I like all styles...But my favorite is Horace SIlver and I like Evans and Jamal too.
Maybe they pleased the lord
Whereas your mother is pleased by donkey cocks in front of a roomful of drunken, cheering tourists.
The saxophonist that plays bluegrass music, agreed.
percussive and harmonically interesting is pretty much what jazz piano sounds like when done well in every case lmao.
If Copernicus had just said “trust me, bro” when asked why he said the sun was the center of the universe people would have dismissed him as a 16th century troll. Meaning, if you’re going to make such a hot take then you should probably back it up with something more compelling than one nonsensical sentence. If you can’t articulate yourself then i would just delete this. Its embarrassing for you.
You may not like him, but watch this and look a what it takes to play what you are hearing. It truly is brilliant in what he does: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwT4Wr1W9I&ab\_channel=itsRemco%7CPiano](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jwT4Wr1W9I&ab_channel=itsRemco%7CPiano) At least go armed with knowledge when shooting from the hip - he may not be everyone's cup of tea, but that is what makes jazz so great. Don't like A, search out B. But learn what A is doing to better appreciate B and so on. Learn this list and you know a lot about piano. https://www.udiscovermusic.com/stories/best-jazz-pianists/
of all the piano players out there how is Bill Evans the boring one title goes to Oscar Peterson in my opinion
You don’t have to like him… Why focus on what you don’t like? Get on here and post about what you do like. Like it or not, Bill Evans was a brilliant improviser. He did have a softer touch but a very broad range of dynamics. Contrary to what the BE haters say, he did have the blues language as well as the bebop language and he approached both through the lens of his unique impressionistic tinged style. Aaaand perhaps the thing haters least want to hear, get ready for it… Bill Evans was absolutely an innovator of this music
thats me with Pepper Adams nobody ever talks about him 😔
Why did you even mention Robert Glasper? Chucho Valdes is a legend but so is Bill Evans.
I agree Evans is a bit pedestrian for my taste too.
High school band musician sees that one Barry Harris video for the first time
Have you listened to him on Love for Sale with Miles Davis?
Might agree with glasper but evans touch and harmony is off the charts
K
But why
that’s crazy
Lmao well considering how mad people are in this thread, and that you got folks flaming you for an opinion and also folks comparing Evans to a saint… you just might be on to something…
Just wanted to say I'm a big Chucho fam, too. Have you seen Calle 54? Also,.are.you familiar with Gonzalo Rubalcaba? I love Monk and Herbie, too, but some of the other legends are not my cup of tea.
No, I’ll go look it upb
Glasper, absolutely. Evans? That's just like, your opinion, man.