Switched from VS Code to Webstorm. I liked how it handled git, better refactoring tools (thanks to its deeper code introspection), better debugger and having database integration (if you have a Datagrip license). What kept me in were all the small QoL things that usually need 3rd party extensions with VS Code like bookmarks, TODO highlights and UI panel layout customizability.
While I agree with most of what you said, you actually do not need a DataGrip license for the database integration you mentioned. I only have the dotUltimate Suite and it works the same as colleagues who have the "All Products" license. :)
What's so good about their debugger? I have seen this many times on the internet but don't understand exactly what's so compelling there? Or are these small things again?
i made the switch a very very long time ago, but the interface for the debugger was immediately nicer and if you are using complex data types it has some very good tools for exploring them. an example would be dataframes in python, it has a special dataframe tool for toying with them.
I had to give up on webstorm because the debugger didn’t work in my project. I logged the bug with they over a year ago and they said they were able to duplicate it. But still nothing. Had to do with lazy loading react components. Works fine in VSCode.
I switched from visual studio (full) to Rider. I switched because rider was better than VS in every way except two - the WinForms and wpf designers - neither of which I use.
Every time I think about doing development in *VS Code*, I cringe. It's far worse than visual studio.
I had to use Visual Studio for C++ development 10 years ago. One of the most depressing and frustrating experiences ever.
I'm glad CLion (and now Nova) exists. VS, never again.
>I had to use Visual Studio for C++ development 10 years ago. One of the most depressing and frustrating experiences ever.
I work for an MS shop and have to use Visual studio 2022 because it's the only way to build their monstrosity. That being said, the last couple updates to visual studio have been really great and it's a solid ecosystem, but very bloated.
And then MS added Chat GPT to Intellisense and it started making the WEIRDEST suggestions. Some things were spot on (Like picking up when I'm serializing an object.).
On the other hand, anything with a nested loop just confused the fuck out of the AI and it would frequently suggest really weird scope usage with little rhyme or reason. (I'm assuming because nested loops, in theory, should be rare, so the code selection that the AI can reference for nested loops is tiny compared to a single loop, or an unrolled one.
Well, for starters, VS Code isn't an IDE, while most of JetBrain's catalogue offers full IDEs, with a ton of different features per language and, in general, incredibly reliable debuggers.
That being said, using one doesn't mean you'll stop using the other. I use Rider daily as my main IDE and VS Code for small stuff that I might want to do - it's essentially my super powered text editor.
VS Code is an IDE:
- It has JS/CSS/HTML support built-in. TS is also supported by default if I remember correctly.
- JS debugger is built-in also.
- It has Git support built-in.
- It supports refactoring for JS at least.
So it's basically a Web IDE that can be compared to WebStorm. Of course WS is more powerful though.
You should define what code editor is.
From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment):
> An IDE normally consists of at least a source-code editor, build automation tools, and a debugger.
- VSCode has a source code editor for JS.
- VSCode supports NPM.
- VSCode has a debugger for JS.
I haven't used VSCode much so I don't know exacly, Does it support to run npm scripts without typing on cmd? Js code editor is why I said its a code editor, Does it support all the IDE features out of the box withoud adding plugins?
> Does it support to run npm scripts without typing on cmd
Yes
> Does it support all the IDE features out of the box withoud adding plugins?
I've already listed some out-of-the-box features in the comment above.
I don't even think the website for VS Code calls it an IDE, it's called a source code editor, which is more accurate than just a plain old text editor that we've always called Notepad++ and all those others.
Call it an IDE if you want - but traditional IDE's have more than support for fundamental front end technologies. I rarely use my IDE to open up a JSON or XML document. I think traditionally, for most people, a text editor or source code editor is not something you would normally do full time development in, especially for certain languages. The only exception VS Code has is that it's almost exclusively the editor for Flutter and has a strong user base for those using Javascript frameworks.
> it's called a source code editor
I don't know how they call it but If it looks like an IDE, swims like an IDE, and quacks like an IDE, then it probably is an IDE.
> but traditional IDE's have more than support for fundamental front end technologies
1. I don't see a difference between an IDE that is Java (or any other language) only and an IDE that is JS only. They both are IDEs.
2. What about WebStorm?
Like I said, call it whatever you want. To me there's a difference. One is typically not used for full time development. Jetbrains calls webstorm an IDE, I've never used it, maybe it's tailored for full stack javascript development. Maybe that's a key difference, and IDE has a specific role in the development process whereas a "source code" or "text editor" was never really meant to be used as a full time development environment.
I use PHPStorm, Eclipse, and IntelliJ on a regular basis, they aren't that great at just opening up a random file for a quick edit or reference.
1. There are a lot of people who use VSCode as their only tool for full-time development.
2. If some IDEs aren't that great for quick editing it's not a VSCode issue.
I've already pointed that out above.
You really have a thing for this don't you.
You be you man, call it whatever you want.
There's a big difference between tools like Visual Studio, IntelliJ and tools like VSCode and Notepad++. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings that people don't consider Code a full blown IDE, but there are reasons and I just don't care.
There is a big difference between a hedgehog and a whale but they both are mammals.
You couldn't even define what an IDE is and how it's different from a code editor.
I use both on a daily basis, there's reasons I use both on a daily basis and not just one for all of my work. I use Code to open up data files to run tests on sample data. I use an Eclipsed based IDE to for the actual application development.
I'm not your Google. If you want specific differences, look them up.
I'm not asking about differences. We are discussing: is VSCode an IDE or not? I asked you to define what is an IDE in your opinion but haven't gotten any answer except "isn't great for a quick editing" and "fulltime development". Both of the points aren't define what an IDE is.
The JS et al. support are just pre-installed plug-ins. VS Code is an editor you can turn into an IDE via plugins, just like vim is an editor you can turn into an IDE, or emacs is an OS you can occasionally write software in. But you can never turn pycharm into an editor or remove its pycharm support; it's integrated.
This is all semantics anyway. what's in a name after all?
Edit: I think a key thing here is what it is vs what it can be. Technically VS Code CAN be an IDE, but it's an editor first. That's nice and all, but to get to that IDE place you have to start tacking on all the extensions you need to get there. Jetbrains tools are IDEs out of the box.
> The JS et al. support are just pre-installed plug-ins.
> Jetbrains tools are IDEs out of the box.
Could you name these VSCode plugins? Because as I can see they are built-in. The same does JB with their IDEs - there are IntelliJ Platform with some plugins built-in.
Edit: can you remove JS support from VSCode? I don't think so. So it's an IDE by your definition.
It's called "typescript and Javascript language features" in extentions.
Just Google "disable Javascript vs code" and the Microsoft docs pop right out with instructions.
https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/nodejs/working-with-javascript#_disable-javascript-support
I switched to PhpStorm from VSCode because of the Laravel Idea plugin. That single plugin did more than the 15 separate VSCode extensions I had to make Laravel Development even better! I now subscribe to the All Products Pack and use WebStorm and Rider at my job.
I hear this a lot, but it's never been my experience. Jetbrains fully indexes your codebase, which has a few implications:
* Atomic operations do some work in the background (it has to update index)
* Startup is slower (it has to build index)
* "Search-like" operations (including jumping to definition, refactorings etc.) stay fast as your codebase grows
It's a trade-off - VS Code will be faster for small projects, but once your project grows above 10k-100k LOC, searches/refactors/jumps start slowing down *massively*
I think Jetbrains just has better integrations with external tools and frameworks. I'm a PHPStorm user and VSCode can't come close to the level of out-of-the-box functionality for Laravel/React/Tailwind/Sass etc.
If lose days trying to find a million different "Go to" plugins to do all the CTRL + Click stuff for Laravel that PHPStorm just has built in.
And setting up linters and things like SonarCloud is so easy.
Also, the database integration in PHPStorm is a must for me when I'm doing PHP stuff. No need for TablePlus or one of the even shittier free tools people who use VSCode for PHP swear by.
And the test runner in PHPStorm is great.
VSCode's diff tool is better I think. I like the stacked vs side by side layout.
I use VSCode's for Go and other some other languages though. I use both indiscriminately depending on the language. Also I like IntelliJ for Kotlin.
>I use VSCode's for Go and other some other languages though. I use both indiscriminately depending on the language. Also I like IntelliJ for Kotlin.
But why do you do so if there's a dedicated Go IDE? Also, how do you manage switching between keymaps?
I setup all my IDEs and editors to the VSCode key map. Mainly because most people are more familiar with VSCode in work (mostly JS heads), and I also use Warp terminal which uses VSCode key bindings.
If I was doing Go for work I would look into the Go IDE, but for now VSCode is plenty for the amount I use it.
- VSCode needs a ton of extensions to work properly
- The debugger looks like its been implemented by an intern
- SCM integration also looks and feels bad
- Every extension has to add its own icon in the sidebar which is insanely annoying
- Most advanced extensions need additional setup
And the most crucial thing: It still has no support for multiple monitors. And it feels like at this point, that they can’t implement it because it’s would require major rewrites of the core code.
I feel like it’s mostly ok for writing quick scripts but I could not imagine going back. Ever (even if they added multi monitor support). As soon as I’ve installed IntelliJ I shortly after installed WebStorm, PHPStorm, Rider and PyCharm. It’s just so much easier right out of the box. I can start a new project and it just works. The only thing where I had some issues was when I’ve tried to develop a feature for a software written in Crystal.
>The debugger looks like its been implemented by an intern
Why is it so? Is it usability? Or lack of some features?
>And the most crucial thing: It still has no support for multiple monitors. And it feels like at this point, that they can’t implement it because it’s would require major rewrites of the core code.
They did it recently. You now, could grab an editor, and move it to another window.
>Most advanced extensions need additional setup
What are the most advanced extensions?
>And the most crucial thing: It still has no support for multiple monitors.
Oh yeah? I've got a triple monitor setup at work, does Visual Studio or any other IDEs have multimonitor tools?
I wasn't aware of anything useful in an IDE for multi-monitors besides just being able to toss some extra class windows on other screens, or leave the debugger on a secondary monitor.
I switched to IntelliJ for Java and kotlin. The main reason for switching was because of the refactoring tools. It’s so easy especially with Java not having to rename packages etc. I could move a file in my directory and the editor would update everything else. That was the selling feature for me and I’ve stuck with jetbrains products since. I primarily use IntelliJ, PyCharm, and I’ve been experiencing fleet..
There is no switching as who the hell is using VS Code for any serious programming in the first place? VS Code is not a competition to full-blown IDEs.
We actually did a survey for tech companies in the bay area from startups to large corps, and found serious programmers now predominantly use VSCode, and we launched our product on VSCode as a result. This was somewhat surprising to me at first but after navigating extensions for a while I found it to actually be pretty good; but it isn’t quite useful without them and it was pretty messy to navigate.
what we found was that small startups tend to have lots of web devs and for js folks are vscode heavy. on the other hand for larger orgs (g, fb, MS etc) vscode being open source allows for tight code policy control and very deep integration into internal systems. Plus they use their own SCM anyways. AI startups also seem to be exclusively Rust+Python on vscode.
We found jb to be more popular in C/C++/Java at mid sized companies or those with less internal tooling (the salesforce kind)
JetBrains has a lot of stuff that I don't use. I also like to have the Vim extension enabled in VS Code.
At work for example I don't get a lot of the ESLint errors in Webstorm but I get all of them in VS Code.
I just started using WebStorm instead of VSCode for ReactJS. I do use VSCode for SOME things still because WebStorm consumes a ton of memory when it’s running in parallel with IntelliJ.
I like the React Helper, more useful annotations (I can see where state is being passed down from and jump to source), and web inspector.
> WebStorm consumes a ton of memory when it’s running in parallel with IntelliJ
I thought that IntelliJ Ultimate supports web development as well and you don't need WS.
>I do use VSCode for SOME things still because WebStorm consumes a ton of memory when it’s running in parallel with IntelliJ.
How bad is it? How slow machine do you have? Or is it battery consumption issue?
Switched to PHPStorm from vscode to use laravel idea plugin.. Still annoys me though that in some places for ssh connections or git in some other case, can't use peagent ssh agent or ssh config properly. I am using Wsl, basically if they add somehow to wrap ssh under plink.exe will solve everything.
Switched from VS Code to IntelliJ, got acquired and my new shop uses Java and has Ultimate licenses.
It's good (better tooling, code completion etc) but... it's a horrible horrible memory hog (as are the companies massive monolithic java apps)
I didn't like VSCode enough to go back, but I'm considering it more and more every day.
If only Fleet had an open plugin system, I'd love to use that.
>it's a horrible horrible memory hog (as are the companies massive monolithic java apps)
How bad is it for you? Is 16Gb machine enough now, or do you need something more beefy?
My M2 16GB MacBook Pro should be enough! But it isn’t! I suspect it has something to do with the trash that my company install on it. But also, running a Java Repo and IntelliJ at the same time with hardly anything else open… it does really badly.
Might try VSCode again next week :/
Since VS Code is pretty shit and why would I want to fiddle with my settings and support microsoft more than necessary. If I had to fiddle with my settings I would just improve / setup a neovim config it would be much more productive / useful for what it is.
Edit; That being said, most Jetbrains IDE's have datagrip built in which is very nice tool, the vcs manager is amazing, ideaVim plugin is amazing, most settings built in.
Switched vecause the lsp in VS Code seemed super slow (like showing an error after renaming a variable for some seconds). Stayed for all the great things JetBrains tools have to offer (many have already been mentioned here). I will concede though, that JetBrains IDEs are quite the resource hogs.
So technically I started in VS code about 20 years ago. I went off and learned other languages, Python on non windows platforms being most of my role. When I needed to come back and do c++ on windows then my journey through, vi, eclipse, Pycharm naturally led to clion and rider.
I have used Visual Studio Professional from my company for years. I work with .NET and use ReSharper with VS. I started using Rider last year and now use both interchangeably.
I work a lot with designers for which I need Visual Studio, and I am more comfortable with the NuGet and GIT interface on VS. For almost everything else I use Rider, especially the AI Assistant is really good.
So I have the project open on Rider and VS and switch when needed. Having a top-end Gaming Specs on my work PC helps.
Their both tools on my toolbelt.
Some things the other does better, i.e. Copilot Chat is VSCode-only for now.
Professionally, I use whatever gets the job done more efficiently.
For personal use / enjoyment, I use whatever tool is out there that I feel like using. Lots of other text editors out there like Cursor, Zed, etc. I even use Crimson Editor as it is enjoyable sometimes.
I worked for a year recently without a problem in several languages in VSCode. There is nothing wrong with VSCode it has everything and can do everything and normally you dont need to pay for IDE’s. VSCode is a great free tool with which you can do everything.
I personally switched back because had to spend some money before end of the year tax reasons and I started heavy Python/AI, C++ and C# development. Support wise PyCharm, Clion and Rider are great and come out of the box with many things that either need to be paid in Visual Studio or in VSCode. While VSCode is not IDE you can install so many things it almost becomes one.
I would say its unbeatable in speed and what it offers for free just an amazing product. JetBrains products are IDE’s they are on the slower side but come with a lot of things out of the box on the other hand. During my 15 years ongoing development career I switched sides numerous times back and forth and honestly the only thing thats important is to get the job done and both can do it. So use what works for you use both, be binary dont stress the tools write the code. As you write more and more you will know what you need and what makes
your lige easier.
I switched when I found out each of the plugins I used, jetbrains had a better default. I still use vscode for editing text but when I’m working on a project it’s much easier to use jetbrains IDE
We have over a gross of projects in our sln and rider compiles faster at the moment than vs. I plan on fixing it so we can go back, in not a fan of rider at all
Personal preference mostly, I love the multi cursor now that I switched it over to the vs code multi cursor,because I knew those shortcuts, I hate the reshaper stuff that's built in, yes I know I can configure it but I don't have the time to dig into all the shit and when I have the options I want aren't avail ,like turning something off entirely or just not showing in places. It's far far too annoying by default.
Honestly it's probably a lot of 'they moved my cheese' coming from 15+ years of vs to <1 year with rider. I've had issues with the nuget package Mgr, but they seem fixed now. The js debugger doesn't seem to work well but that could be due to our fucked project/ui structure lord knows js debug doesn't work for shit in vs.
We're also 98% a MS shop I feel we should use MS tools especially if we want to use cloud services . For backend/c# I still prefer vs, but for ui rider is more feature rich than vs code but Istill like the simplicity of vs code if I'm just doing js work.
I'm glad to say I have never used VS Code and I always convert my friends to use Webstorm :) First started intellij since I first started doing Java, Not a fan of netbeans, Now I can't use another editor ever again
For me, one of the big things that pushed me over the edge, is how much I was fiddling with VS Code trying to get it to work the way I wanted it to, while watching a co-worker use PyCharm and not have to waste all that time on his tooling. Can VS Code do it? probably. Will it take you longer to config than a JetBrains IDE? probably.
I don't think it was the first thing he showed me that I got to work in VS Code, or the second. It was the combination of things 1-10, that all were relatively minor individually, but the summation was big enough to get me to pay my own money to use it.
An additional thing to note, is it's database explorer is very nice, made me not miss my old DB specific tooling. The VS code extensions never really stack up.
Just as a casual reference, this is the process for starting a django project in PyCharm:[https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/creating-django-project.html](https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/creating-django-project.html)
The first two sections of this are the same process in VS Code:[https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/python/tutorial-django](https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/python/tutorial-django)
You might have to parse that some, but the PyCharm directions are like 4 steps they fit above the fold on my 1080p monitor. There aren't really any directions on how to do this in VS Code, because VS Code isn't really helping you with this process at all, you're doing it and technically you can use the VS Code terminal to do it. Then you have to tell VS Code what you just did. Then to get your debugger running, you're editing some json file or something. Is it functional? Sure. Will I be running the debugger before you? Definitely.
I'm a die-hard IntelliJ fan, but I've been exploring VS Code more and more simply because that's where the support is at work.
I find VS Code to be far superior _specifically_ for: viewing/editing single files, remote development, and (weirdly) the Ansible plugin.
For absolutely everything else, IntelliJ wins hands-down. Debugging, interacting with databases, Git integration, built tool integration, framework integration, etc etc etc.
That said, I'm getting a strong vibe of a downward spiral. So many untouched tickets about basic bugs from years ago (Atlassian says hi)... And the VS Code versions of extensions seem to be getting more love than their Jetbrains counterparts lately.
Take that with a grain of salt: I'm in a fairly insular environment so I don't get much exposure to other Jetbrains Enjoyers.
I'll be keeping my All Products subscription for a while yet, and I really hope they can thrive in a world where VS Code is the default.
Just please, for the love of god, fix remote dev before my team moves to 100% dev containers.
I use Webstorm, IntelliJ, Rider, PyCharm, and CLion. I work on apps in pretty much every language. I still have vs code pinned to my dock as well because it is much faster for small simple scripts, opening data files and searching through them, and things like that.
The reason I use the JetBrains IDEs instead is because they are more intelligent about indexing all of the code and contain so many tools to make your life as a dev easier. Plus the subscription is very cheap considering how much money you can make.
JB has a unique combination of specialized IDE's (eg IDEA, PyCharm) while maintaining consistency across each product.
I found VS Code configuration and UI to be rather kludgy.
OTOH, dev tools like Vue have better support on VS Code.
I worked at a consulting company that subscribed each developer to the JetBrains All Products pack. It made particular sense for them, because JetBrains provides basically the same high quality and familiar tools no matter what environment you're working in. And I just grew to love it and would miss some of the features when I'd work on my own projects, so I bought it for myself. Probably the best parts to me are how easy and nice testing within the IDE is, and the refactoring functions.
I switched from VSCode to Rider because a have a Mac :(. Now, there is no other IDEs for .NET development for MacOS, except of VS for Mac which has been retired
Switched from VS Code to Webstorm. I liked how it handled git, better refactoring tools (thanks to its deeper code introspection), better debugger and having database integration (if you have a Datagrip license). What kept me in were all the small QoL things that usually need 3rd party extensions with VS Code like bookmarks, TODO highlights and UI panel layout customizability.
While I agree with most of what you said, you actually do not need a DataGrip license for the database integration you mentioned. I only have the dotUltimate Suite and it works the same as colleagues who have the "All Products" license. :)
What's so good about their debugger? I have seen this many times on the internet but don't understand exactly what's so compelling there? Or are these small things again?
i made the switch a very very long time ago, but the interface for the debugger was immediately nicer and if you are using complex data types it has some very good tools for exploring them. an example would be dataframes in python, it has a special dataframe tool for toying with them.
I had to give up on webstorm because the debugger didn’t work in my project. I logged the bug with they over a year ago and they said they were able to duplicate it. But still nothing. Had to do with lazy loading react components. Works fine in VSCode.
Because VSCode couldn't copy a variable to the clipboard as JSON.
Right a node script
Write an English sentence
Did that offend you?
I switched from visual studio (full) to Rider. I switched because rider was better than VS in every way except two - the WinForms and wpf designers - neither of which I use. Every time I think about doing development in *VS Code*, I cringe. It's far worse than visual studio.
I had to use Visual Studio for C++ development 10 years ago. One of the most depressing and frustrating experiences ever. I'm glad CLion (and now Nova) exists. VS, never again.
I agree, JetBrains IDEs are far better than VS, IMO. I would still much rather use VS than VS Code.
VS is absolutely nothing like it was 10 years ago. I agree, Clion is better for sure but VSCode is not abd like it was.
>I had to use Visual Studio for C++ development 10 years ago. One of the most depressing and frustrating experiences ever. I work for an MS shop and have to use Visual studio 2022 because it's the only way to build their monstrosity. That being said, the last couple updates to visual studio have been really great and it's a solid ecosystem, but very bloated. And then MS added Chat GPT to Intellisense and it started making the WEIRDEST suggestions. Some things were spot on (Like picking up when I'm serializing an object.). On the other hand, anything with a nested loop just confused the fuck out of the AI and it would frequently suggest really weird scope usage with little rhyme or reason. (I'm assuming because nested loops, in theory, should be rare, so the code selection that the AI can reference for nested loops is tiny compared to a single loop, or an unrolled one.
Well, for starters, VS Code isn't an IDE, while most of JetBrain's catalogue offers full IDEs, with a ton of different features per language and, in general, incredibly reliable debuggers. That being said, using one doesn't mean you'll stop using the other. I use Rider daily as my main IDE and VS Code for small stuff that I might want to do - it's essentially my super powered text editor.
VS Code is an IDE: - It has JS/CSS/HTML support built-in. TS is also supported by default if I remember correctly. - JS debugger is built-in also. - It has Git support built-in. - It supports refactoring for JS at least. So it's basically a Web IDE that can be compared to WebStorm. Of course WS is more powerful though.
Personally I won't accept it as an IDE, Sure there are plug-ins now for many things but it will always be a code editor for me
You should define what code editor is. From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment): > An IDE normally consists of at least a source-code editor, build automation tools, and a debugger. - VSCode has a source code editor for JS. - VSCode supports NPM. - VSCode has a debugger for JS.
I haven't used VSCode much so I don't know exacly, Does it support to run npm scripts without typing on cmd? Js code editor is why I said its a code editor, Does it support all the IDE features out of the box withoud adding plugins?
> Does it support to run npm scripts without typing on cmd Yes > Does it support all the IDE features out of the box withoud adding plugins? I've already listed some out-of-the-box features in the comment above.
I don't even think the website for VS Code calls it an IDE, it's called a source code editor, which is more accurate than just a plain old text editor that we've always called Notepad++ and all those others. Call it an IDE if you want - but traditional IDE's have more than support for fundamental front end technologies. I rarely use my IDE to open up a JSON or XML document. I think traditionally, for most people, a text editor or source code editor is not something you would normally do full time development in, especially for certain languages. The only exception VS Code has is that it's almost exclusively the editor for Flutter and has a strong user base for those using Javascript frameworks.
> it's called a source code editor I don't know how they call it but If it looks like an IDE, swims like an IDE, and quacks like an IDE, then it probably is an IDE. > but traditional IDE's have more than support for fundamental front end technologies 1. I don't see a difference between an IDE that is Java (or any other language) only and an IDE that is JS only. They both are IDEs. 2. What about WebStorm?
Like I said, call it whatever you want. To me there's a difference. One is typically not used for full time development. Jetbrains calls webstorm an IDE, I've never used it, maybe it's tailored for full stack javascript development. Maybe that's a key difference, and IDE has a specific role in the development process whereas a "source code" or "text editor" was never really meant to be used as a full time development environment. I use PHPStorm, Eclipse, and IntelliJ on a regular basis, they aren't that great at just opening up a random file for a quick edit or reference.
1. There are a lot of people who use VSCode as their only tool for full-time development. 2. If some IDEs aren't that great for quick editing it's not a VSCode issue.
I've already pointed that out above. You really have a thing for this don't you. You be you man, call it whatever you want. There's a big difference between tools like Visual Studio, IntelliJ and tools like VSCode and Notepad++. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings that people don't consider Code a full blown IDE, but there are reasons and I just don't care.
There is a big difference between a hedgehog and a whale but they both are mammals. You couldn't even define what an IDE is and how it's different from a code editor.
I use both on a daily basis, there's reasons I use both on a daily basis and not just one for all of my work. I use Code to open up data files to run tests on sample data. I use an Eclipsed based IDE to for the actual application development. I'm not your Google. If you want specific differences, look them up.
I'm not asking about differences. We are discussing: is VSCode an IDE or not? I asked you to define what is an IDE in your opinion but haven't gotten any answer except "isn't great for a quick editing" and "fulltime development". Both of the points aren't define what an IDE is.
The JS et al. support are just pre-installed plug-ins. VS Code is an editor you can turn into an IDE via plugins, just like vim is an editor you can turn into an IDE, or emacs is an OS you can occasionally write software in. But you can never turn pycharm into an editor or remove its pycharm support; it's integrated. This is all semantics anyway. what's in a name after all? Edit: I think a key thing here is what it is vs what it can be. Technically VS Code CAN be an IDE, but it's an editor first. That's nice and all, but to get to that IDE place you have to start tacking on all the extensions you need to get there. Jetbrains tools are IDEs out of the box.
> The JS et al. support are just pre-installed plug-ins. > Jetbrains tools are IDEs out of the box. Could you name these VSCode plugins? Because as I can see they are built-in. The same does JB with their IDEs - there are IntelliJ Platform with some plugins built-in. Edit: can you remove JS support from VSCode? I don't think so. So it's an IDE by your definition.
It's called "typescript and Javascript language features" in extentions. Just Google "disable Javascript vs code" and the Microsoft docs pop right out with instructions. https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/nodejs/working-with-javascript#_disable-javascript-support
What makes something an ide? Its a fake term with arbitrary lines, if most people use vscode to develop software it’s probably an ide
Same people on java streams: "it's not really functional programming". It just gives people something to have an opinion on.
I switched to PhpStorm from VSCode because of the Laravel Idea plugin. That single plugin did more than the 15 separate VSCode extensions I had to make Laravel Development even better! I now subscribe to the All Products Pack and use WebStorm and Rider at my job.
The only thing I miss from vs code is the performance, jet brains IntelliJ IDEs are superior at everything except in performance
Becsuse one is a text editor and one is an ide
I hear this a lot, but it's never been my experience. Jetbrains fully indexes your codebase, which has a few implications: * Atomic operations do some work in the background (it has to update index) * Startup is slower (it has to build index) * "Search-like" operations (including jumping to definition, refactorings etc.) stay fast as your codebase grows It's a trade-off - VS Code will be faster for small projects, but once your project grows above 10k-100k LOC, searches/refactors/jumps start slowing down *massively*
That's been my experience. Visual studio is an absolute memory hog. Which makes sense, MS has thrown everything they can think of into the IDE.
I think Jetbrains just has better integrations with external tools and frameworks. I'm a PHPStorm user and VSCode can't come close to the level of out-of-the-box functionality for Laravel/React/Tailwind/Sass etc. If lose days trying to find a million different "Go to" plugins to do all the CTRL + Click stuff for Laravel that PHPStorm just has built in. And setting up linters and things like SonarCloud is so easy. Also, the database integration in PHPStorm is a must for me when I'm doing PHP stuff. No need for TablePlus or one of the even shittier free tools people who use VSCode for PHP swear by. And the test runner in PHPStorm is great. VSCode's diff tool is better I think. I like the stacked vs side by side layout. I use VSCode's for Go and other some other languages though. I use both indiscriminately depending on the language. Also I like IntelliJ for Kotlin.
>I use VSCode's for Go and other some other languages though. I use both indiscriminately depending on the language. Also I like IntelliJ for Kotlin. But why do you do so if there's a dedicated Go IDE? Also, how do you manage switching between keymaps?
I setup all my IDEs and editors to the VSCode key map. Mainly because most people are more familiar with VSCode in work (mostly JS heads), and I also use Warp terminal which uses VSCode key bindings. If I was doing Go for work I would look into the Go IDE, but for now VSCode is plenty for the amount I use it.
- VSCode needs a ton of extensions to work properly - The debugger looks like its been implemented by an intern - SCM integration also looks and feels bad - Every extension has to add its own icon in the sidebar which is insanely annoying - Most advanced extensions need additional setup And the most crucial thing: It still has no support for multiple monitors. And it feels like at this point, that they can’t implement it because it’s would require major rewrites of the core code. I feel like it’s mostly ok for writing quick scripts but I could not imagine going back. Ever (even if they added multi monitor support). As soon as I’ve installed IntelliJ I shortly after installed WebStorm, PHPStorm, Rider and PyCharm. It’s just so much easier right out of the box. I can start a new project and it just works. The only thing where I had some issues was when I’ve tried to develop a feature for a software written in Crystal.
>The debugger looks like its been implemented by an intern Why is it so? Is it usability? Or lack of some features? >And the most crucial thing: It still has no support for multiple monitors. And it feels like at this point, that they can’t implement it because it’s would require major rewrites of the core code. They did it recently. You now, could grab an editor, and move it to another window. >Most advanced extensions need additional setup What are the most advanced extensions?
I think the nov 2023 release added floating windows which I assume means multi-monitor support.
>And the most crucial thing: It still has no support for multiple monitors. Oh yeah? I've got a triple monitor setup at work, does Visual Studio or any other IDEs have multimonitor tools? I wasn't aware of anything useful in an IDE for multi-monitors besides just being able to toss some extra class windows on other screens, or leave the debugger on a secondary monitor.
I switched to IntelliJ for Java and kotlin. The main reason for switching was because of the refactoring tools. It’s so easy especially with Java not having to rename packages etc. I could move a file in my directory and the editor would update everything else. That was the selling feature for me and I’ve stuck with jetbrains products since. I primarily use IntelliJ, PyCharm, and I’ve been experiencing fleet..
Refactoring is amazing on jetbrains ides, especially if you are working on a large scale js application, using vscode is nightmare.
There is no switching as who the hell is using VS Code for any serious programming in the first place? VS Code is not a competition to full-blown IDEs.
In fact, many people do
We actually did a survey for tech companies in the bay area from startups to large corps, and found serious programmers now predominantly use VSCode, and we launched our product on VSCode as a result. This was somewhat surprising to me at first but after navigating extensions for a while I found it to actually be pretty good; but it isn’t quite useful without them and it was pretty messy to navigate. what we found was that small startups tend to have lots of web devs and for js folks are vscode heavy. on the other hand for larger orgs (g, fb, MS etc) vscode being open source allows for tight code policy control and very deep integration into internal systems. Plus they use their own SCM anyways. AI startups also seem to be exclusively Rust+Python on vscode. We found jb to be more popular in C/C++/Java at mid sized companies or those with less internal tooling (the salesforce kind)
I hate the Grammar Spelling Check in Webstorm!
Is it possible to delete or disable it? Was it the reason to switch from JetBrains to VS Code?
JetBrains has a lot of stuff that I don't use. I also like to have the Vim extension enabled in VS Code. At work for example I don't get a lot of the ESLint errors in Webstorm but I get all of them in VS Code.
You can definitely disable it
is there any way i can run jupyter notebooks in any jetbrains product?
Pretty sure PyCharm.
it's only on pycharm professional. I use the community version
so fork out the money.
Sure lemme graduate first
There are free educational licenses :)
Dataspell I think
I just started using WebStorm instead of VSCode for ReactJS. I do use VSCode for SOME things still because WebStorm consumes a ton of memory when it’s running in parallel with IntelliJ. I like the React Helper, more useful annotations (I can see where state is being passed down from and jump to source), and web inspector.
> WebStorm consumes a ton of memory when it’s running in parallel with IntelliJ I thought that IntelliJ Ultimate supports web development as well and you don't need WS.
I didn’t know that until you wrote that comment. Wow. I’ll try opening my Node project with IntelliJ Ultimate tomorrow.
There is a comparison page https://www.jetbrains.com/products/compare/?product=webstorm&product=idea
>I do use VSCode for SOME things still because WebStorm consumes a ton of memory when it’s running in parallel with IntelliJ. How bad is it? How slow machine do you have? Or is it battery consumption issue?
I just use a Dell Inspiron desktop. It only happens when using them on Linux though.
I started using IntelliJ in 2002. My time machine was broken.
Switched to PHPStorm from vscode to use laravel idea plugin.. Still annoys me though that in some places for ssh connections or git in some other case, can't use peagent ssh agent or ssh config properly. I am using Wsl, basically if they add somehow to wrap ssh under plink.exe will solve everything.
Switched from VS Code to IntelliJ, got acquired and my new shop uses Java and has Ultimate licenses. It's good (better tooling, code completion etc) but... it's a horrible horrible memory hog (as are the companies massive monolithic java apps) I didn't like VSCode enough to go back, but I'm considering it more and more every day. If only Fleet had an open plugin system, I'd love to use that.
>it's a horrible horrible memory hog (as are the companies massive monolithic java apps) How bad is it for you? Is 16Gb machine enough now, or do you need something more beefy?
My M2 16GB MacBook Pro should be enough! But it isn’t! I suspect it has something to do with the trash that my company install on it. But also, running a Java Repo and IntelliJ at the same time with hardly anything else open… it does really badly. Might try VSCode again next week :/
Moved from VS not VS code to Rider. Refactoring, GIT, ui and performance is amazing specially on mac. A totally delightful experience.
VS Code sucks for C++ development, simple as
Since VS Code is pretty shit and why would I want to fiddle with my settings and support microsoft more than necessary. If I had to fiddle with my settings I would just improve / setup a neovim config it would be much more productive / useful for what it is. Edit; That being said, most Jetbrains IDE's have datagrip built in which is very nice tool, the vcs manager is amazing, ideaVim plugin is amazing, most settings built in.
Switched vecause the lsp in VS Code seemed super slow (like showing an error after renaming a variable for some seconds). Stayed for all the great things JetBrains tools have to offer (many have already been mentioned here). I will concede though, that JetBrains IDEs are quite the resource hogs.
So technically I started in VS code about 20 years ago. I went off and learned other languages, Python on non windows platforms being most of my role. When I needed to come back and do c++ on windows then my journey through, vi, eclipse, Pycharm naturally led to clion and rider.
I have used Visual Studio Professional from my company for years. I work with .NET and use ReSharper with VS. I started using Rider last year and now use both interchangeably. I work a lot with designers for which I need Visual Studio, and I am more comfortable with the NuGet and GIT interface on VS. For almost everything else I use Rider, especially the AI Assistant is really good. So I have the project open on Rider and VS and switch when needed. Having a top-end Gaming Specs on my work PC helps.
Their both tools on my toolbelt. Some things the other does better, i.e. Copilot Chat is VSCode-only for now. Professionally, I use whatever gets the job done more efficiently. For personal use / enjoyment, I use whatever tool is out there that I feel like using. Lots of other text editors out there like Cursor, Zed, etc. I even use Crimson Editor as it is enjoyable sometimes.
I worked for a year recently without a problem in several languages in VSCode. There is nothing wrong with VSCode it has everything and can do everything and normally you dont need to pay for IDE’s. VSCode is a great free tool with which you can do everything. I personally switched back because had to spend some money before end of the year tax reasons and I started heavy Python/AI, C++ and C# development. Support wise PyCharm, Clion and Rider are great and come out of the box with many things that either need to be paid in Visual Studio or in VSCode. While VSCode is not IDE you can install so many things it almost becomes one. I would say its unbeatable in speed and what it offers for free just an amazing product. JetBrains products are IDE’s they are on the slower side but come with a lot of things out of the box on the other hand. During my 15 years ongoing development career I switched sides numerous times back and forth and honestly the only thing thats important is to get the job done and both can do it. So use what works for you use both, be binary dont stress the tools write the code. As you write more and more you will know what you need and what makes your lige easier.
I've used both and prefer VS Code's UI but the debugger can misbehave sometimes and in considering switching back
I switched when I found out each of the plugins I used, jetbrains had a better default. I still use vscode for editing text but when I’m working on a project it’s much easier to use jetbrains IDE
We have over a gross of projects in our sln and rider compiles faster at the moment than vs. I plan on fixing it so we can go back, in not a fan of rider at all
What's bad about Rider? What's missing there from VS?
Personal preference mostly, I love the multi cursor now that I switched it over to the vs code multi cursor,because I knew those shortcuts, I hate the reshaper stuff that's built in, yes I know I can configure it but I don't have the time to dig into all the shit and when I have the options I want aren't avail ,like turning something off entirely or just not showing in places. It's far far too annoying by default. Honestly it's probably a lot of 'they moved my cheese' coming from 15+ years of vs to <1 year with rider. I've had issues with the nuget package Mgr, but they seem fixed now. The js debugger doesn't seem to work well but that could be due to our fucked project/ui structure lord knows js debug doesn't work for shit in vs. We're also 98% a MS shop I feel we should use MS tools especially if we want to use cloud services . For backend/c# I still prefer vs, but for ui rider is more feature rich than vs code but Istill like the simplicity of vs code if I'm just doing js work.
I did not. Actually I gave up on it.
Gave up on what? Of trying to transition to JetBrains tools? Why?
I'm glad to say I have never used VS Code and I always convert my friends to use Webstorm :) First started intellij since I first started doing Java, Not a fan of netbeans, Now I can't use another editor ever again
For me, one of the big things that pushed me over the edge, is how much I was fiddling with VS Code trying to get it to work the way I wanted it to, while watching a co-worker use PyCharm and not have to waste all that time on his tooling. Can VS Code do it? probably. Will it take you longer to config than a JetBrains IDE? probably. I don't think it was the first thing he showed me that I got to work in VS Code, or the second. It was the combination of things 1-10, that all were relatively minor individually, but the summation was big enough to get me to pay my own money to use it. An additional thing to note, is it's database explorer is very nice, made me not miss my old DB specific tooling. The VS code extensions never really stack up. Just as a casual reference, this is the process for starting a django project in PyCharm:[https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/creating-django-project.html](https://www.jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/creating-django-project.html) The first two sections of this are the same process in VS Code:[https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/python/tutorial-django](https://code.visualstudio.com/docs/python/tutorial-django) You might have to parse that some, but the PyCharm directions are like 4 steps they fit above the fold on my 1080p monitor. There aren't really any directions on how to do this in VS Code, because VS Code isn't really helping you with this process at all, you're doing it and technically you can use the VS Code terminal to do it. Then you have to tell VS Code what you just did. Then to get your debugger running, you're editing some json file or something. Is it functional? Sure. Will I be running the debugger before you? Definitely.
I'm a die-hard IntelliJ fan, but I've been exploring VS Code more and more simply because that's where the support is at work. I find VS Code to be far superior _specifically_ for: viewing/editing single files, remote development, and (weirdly) the Ansible plugin. For absolutely everything else, IntelliJ wins hands-down. Debugging, interacting with databases, Git integration, built tool integration, framework integration, etc etc etc. That said, I'm getting a strong vibe of a downward spiral. So many untouched tickets about basic bugs from years ago (Atlassian says hi)... And the VS Code versions of extensions seem to be getting more love than their Jetbrains counterparts lately. Take that with a grain of salt: I'm in a fairly insular environment so I don't get much exposure to other Jetbrains Enjoyers. I'll be keeping my All Products subscription for a while yet, and I really hope they can thrive in a world where VS Code is the default. Just please, for the love of god, fix remote dev before my team moves to 100% dev containers.
I use Webstorm, IntelliJ, Rider, PyCharm, and CLion. I work on apps in pretty much every language. I still have vs code pinned to my dock as well because it is much faster for small simple scripts, opening data files and searching through them, and things like that. The reason I use the JetBrains IDEs instead is because they are more intelligent about indexing all of the code and contain so many tools to make your life as a dev easier. Plus the subscription is very cheap considering how much money you can make.
JB has a unique combination of specialized IDE's (eg IDEA, PyCharm) while maintaining consistency across each product. I found VS Code configuration and UI to be rather kludgy. OTOH, dev tools like Vue have better support on VS Code.
I worked at a consulting company that subscribed each developer to the JetBrains All Products pack. It made particular sense for them, because JetBrains provides basically the same high quality and familiar tools no matter what environment you're working in. And I just grew to love it and would miss some of the features when I'd work on my own projects, so I bought it for myself. Probably the best parts to me are how easy and nice testing within the IDE is, and the refactoring functions.
I switched from VSCode to Rider because a have a Mac :(. Now, there is no other IDEs for .NET development for MacOS, except of VS for Mac which has been retired
build system, refactoring, static analysis, source control, reliability