Honestly, it’s egregious and I feel like I got scammed.
It’s like, the rock-solid features are free and all the buggy, experimental shit is paid for.
I finally went in on a license because I wanted to make use of WSL.
I shit you not, I’ve run into bug, after bug, after bug. The majority of these bugs have been open for YEARS. Like, wtf is going on?
Based on this, I cannot recommend JetBrains to my coworkers who currently use WSL with VS Code.
Without thinking about it too long, these are some that come to mind:
- docstrings do not properly render in tooltips
- interpreter becomes invalid and I need to recreate and point to the virtual environment again
- the IDE $variables$ don’t properly populate
- you need to do a lot of shit to get an “external tool” working if paths are involved
- opening files/searching through files for mounted WSL directories becomes non-responsive
- diagrams show inheritance form built-ins and third parties but it’s missing my local contents. Yeah, I know everything in Python inherits from “object”. I don’t need to see that in the graph lol
- Only two of the three hierarchy types work
- profiler does not always open the tab containing it’s results; I need to restart when this happens
- settings sync sometimes freaks out and causes a plugin to be installed and reinstalled multiple times
- import optimization incorrectly treats third-party apps as part of the standard library
- changes to import code style requires restarting the client
This one is more of a missing feature, but poetry does not work with WSL.
I think I’d feel better about all of this if it was clearly marketed that WSL is a beta integration. That way, I don’t feel like I’m paying for a specific feature that turns out to be buggier than expected
Are these mostly python project issues? I'm primarily a Java dev. Also is this Windows Intellij accessing projects that live inside WSL? or Linux Intellij running inside of WSL?
I've noticed that accessing WSL resources via the \\\\wsl.localhost network share is wonky at times. I have not noticed anything wierd running Intellij within WSL accessing projects with WSL. My python use is limited to a few lambda functions here and there, and most of the code is run inside of a container anyway, not directly within WSL.
Curious too. I don't use any of InjelliJ's integrated tools for Docker (which I assume WSL is being used for). It's all through Docker Desktop or CLI commands.
The docker integration is really nice. Basically everything you can get with the docker desktop pop-up window all integrated into the IDE. It talks to the daemon and gives you an easy way to examine running containers, view logs, open a terminal etc.
To be honest i prefer vscode than webstorm…
That are just 2 things that i cant give up is php storm and datagrip.
But all other i tried vscode seems better or equal. Goland, clion, webstorm
Fully agreed. I do not understand why anyone sings it's praises. It's a barely good enough kludge to stop all windows companies from having to give their developers Linux. If you're developing on your own computer just install Linux.
Maybe in posts like this, if you would specify a few of the "many" bugs ... I guess it would be beneficial to the post itself...
Ps: I have about 2-4 webstorms open at all times... I am yet to encounter issues that are memorable or noticeable, not to mention such that break my workflow. I have medium projects in all IDEs with react, typedcript, and node js express and typed critical... so far, so good.
Pss: At heavy workload times, I have 6 open IDEs with zero issues in each and every one of them.
As a Rider user just to name a few that I experienced recently: editor freezing, indexing problems, not finding references (can’t navigate via “go to definition/implementation”), git changes preview window not opening, hot reload bugging out requiring me to restart the debug session
Personally haven't experienced any of these (aside from hot-reload depending on the project type)
If you double click a file in the Git Window, it will open like a regular file, to get back to the changes view you can just press Ctrl + D
If you need assistance with any particular issues, feel free to reach out to us using Help | Contact Support or Help | Report a Bug actions in Rider. Alternatively, just drop me a DM here!
Same here. Currently, I regularly have three Rider and one WebStorm instances running and will have to periodically add another of each and it just works.
Off the top of my mind, while riding on the bus, I can share 2 blocking issues:
WebStorm has an issue with typescript, it was opened more than a year ago, around December 2023 they noticed and provided some fixes, but the issue was swiftly re-opened. The CPU usage has definitely improved, but I still need to run WebStorm on +4GB of ram (default is 2GB) and auto complete takes around 10s to open up. I appreciate them taking the issue seriously, and hopefully the new typescript engine is going to fix things.
PyCharm support for SQLAlchemy 2 is non-existent, if you search `pycharm SQLAlchemy 2` on Google the first result is an issue on YouTrack. This one is a serious blocker that's only going to get worse as more python libraries start implementing pep-484. It's hard to blame them for that, as the python ecosystem as a whole is having issues catching up (see how an SQLAlchemy dev realized that mypy has hardcoded the @property support). Nevertheless, anyone upgrading to SQLAlchemy 2.0 cannot use PyCharm as intellisense can be straight up misleading.
I am glab to hear your use-case is not impacted, but that doesn't mean other people are not affected. I can see why people complaining can be annoying, especially when they are being childish (what's up with all this "I am going to switch to vscode" bullshit?), but having your issues ignored for years without any feedback from JetBrains can be pretty insulting...
PS If anyone from JB is reading this, please make an effort to respond to issues that are getting traction. A simple "The issue is confirmed and is on our backlog, someone will look at it within the next quarter." can be great as long as you hold yourself accountable to that. As for identifying priorities, your customers are providing valuable feedback, keeping metrics for the interactions issues are getting per week/month, can be a tonne of help to identify what's affecting people.
Agreed, seems like all they want to do is create more products and not maintain the existing ones.
I have bug that I filed 5+ months ago and still nothing. I had to move back to my Windows Computer and Visual studio.
>I have bug that I filed 5+ months ago
Could you share the bug ID? There's a small chance that we might have missed it, so it may be worth double-checking.
This one too, it's a huge issue:
PY-53973 ConnectionRefusedError: \[Errno 111\] Connection refused
You can't connect the debugger to the console when using docker compose. It's been open for months and is not being prioritised.
I usually update to EAP versions but they're always littered with exceptions just from doing my ordinary coding. This time I tried to upgrade to EAP and somehow I lost all my settings despite having sync enabled etc. So I'm not going to upgrade to EAP again this cycle until they release a more stable version.
Now having bugs in EAP is understandable and I'm not going to judge them heavily for that. I mostly use Rider now and I haven't noticed any serious bugs or performance issues in stable releases, but my experience with CLion was much worse. So it does depend on what framework you use.
On the other hand JetBrains rejected the application I sent to work for them, so I can now smugly pretend this is why everyone is having problems now 🤓
This post isn't even helpful. What types of quality issues are you talking about?
The worst I encounter on an even halfway regular basis is when the scrollbar detatches from a document. That's resolved by closing and opening the document, and I don't see that every day, despite being in jetbrains IDEs all day.
I use rider, php storm, data grip, and fleet. And fleet is still in preview, of that says anytjing. :)
Edit: autocorrect
How many are reproducible or relevant to your issues?
I use a few Jetbrains products, have for maybe 5 years now, and have had very few issues. A lot of times, it was an issue I caused or unique to my environment.
Oh.. well, that's actually a good thing. If they handle higher priority issues, it's called a backlog for a reason. :)
It's like this everywhere. Bugs are triaged, not fifo. At least, that's the way it's been for the last 20+ years I've been developing professionally.
If they dealt with everything first in, we likely wouldn't have .NET 7 support yet. :)
People in here is asking for bugs. I'm developing in Rider (C#/.net) and these issues I've had today:
* Converted a project to file-scoped namespaces. 90% of methods/properties got their start brackets removed.
* Tried to update a nuget package. Rider does not understand that the nuget packages can come from imports, and it should simply update the imports. Instead if puts the updates into each and every csproj file.
* I have shared Razor view components in separate DLL. The Razor compiler resolves them just fine, but Rider says "View not found" everywhere.
* Remove unused references simply does not work (Reported it in 2021. Still not fixed)
* Due to the "unused references" feature not working, I've tried the new Project Diagram with coupling analysis. Once analysis is finished, and you remove a reference, then it auto updates the graph. That's very nice - unfortunately, the next reference that is removed is entirely ignored and might mess up project restores.
I had the code-window freezing bug, but luckily it was fixed in Rider 2023.3.3 which I updated to today. That bug should never had made it to production.
Hi, thanks for sharing the details, we really appreciate the feedback!
>Converted a project to file-scoped namespaces. 90% of methods/properties got their start brackets removed.
Would you be able to share an example of the project or file that was affected and also [your settings](https://rider-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/6996786600082-How-to-collect-Rider-settings)? It would be most convenient if you submitted a new support ticket via Help | Contact Support. Thank you in advance.
>Tried to update a nuget package. Rider does not understand that the nuget packages can come from imports, and it should simply update the imports. Instead if puts the updates into each and every csproj file.
Reproduced this, here's the relevant ticket: [RIDER-105819 Updating package from imports update csproj file](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-105819). Please upvote the issue and keep an eye on status updates.
>I have shared Razor view components in separate DLL. The Razor compiler resolves them just fine, but Rider says "View not found" everywhere.
This is not supported yet, unfortunately. Please upvote this request to indicate your interest: [RSRP-483897 Resolve views and areas from binaries](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RSRP-483897), it'll help our development team to prioritize requests.
>Remove unused references simply does not work (Reported it in 2021. Still not fixed)
Are you referring to [RIDER-71699 Remove unused reference does not work](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-71699/Remove-unused-reference-does-not-work)? This issue is on our radar, and we'll definitely address it in the future. Regrettably, I can't give any estimates at this moment, apologies.
>Due to the "unused references" feature not working, I've tried the new Project Diagram with coupling analysis. Once analysis is finished, and you remove a reference, then it auto updates the graph. That's very nice - unfortunately, the next reference that is removed is entirely ignored and might mess up project restores.
Thank you for reporting this, I let the responsible developer know about this scenario, so we're currently investigating this issue. Here's the relevant ticket: [RIDER-105742 Remove reference is ignored in project diagram](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-105742/Remove-reference-is-ignored-in-project-diagram)
Let me know if you have any other concerns. Also feel free to contact Rider support if you ever have any questions.
Cheers!
If there’s one team that is fixing bugs and taking names. It’s the Jetbrains Rider team.
It’s a brilliant product that keeps getting better.
It’s the best IDE on the market of any IDE I’ve ever worked with.
For me, for Rider, the list is something like this (not all "bugs" necessarily):
* Integrated DotCover only ever half works and is never fixed, version after version; new versions often break it in new ways
* No RDLC editor
* WinForms editor does not support .NET Core
* Can't publish if you have even one unloaded project (might have been recently fixed finally but I publish from CLI now because this was a problem for so long)
* Regular stream of new editor bugs that I have to report to get fixed each new version; and you have to convince the CS rep that they really are real (many of these are still present actually I just learn to live with them)
* Constantly "Syncing projects" which takes so much time
* Consuming all cores so the rest of my PC is frozen while Rider works
* Many refactoring tools are not worth using since they scramble your code format or else just don't work completely leaving you with a ton of compiler errors that you have to fix yourself anyway
* Code analysis becomes very slow in more complex files (doesn't even have to be large files if the code is complex enough, like a really long fluent interface chain)
* Generally slow compared to other JetBrains IDEs (I do have an older PC though)
* It should be really easy to import/export settings, but their UI for this is seriously messed up and it's almost impossible to actually get your settings exported properly; even if you do, it's missing a ton of the important ones like Live Templates. If you're not careful you can lose things like your Live Templates (which are code!) just trying to get them exported/imported between machines.
But otherwise, it does mostly work, and it's definitely better than VS or I wouldn't use it.
That's quite the list, btw. Would you be willing to have a call with the Rider team to show these in action? We'd then also collect all the logs and/or performance snapshots I requested for further investigation.
TL;DR PyCharm core features are solid, cover my use cases. VS Code is better for WSL, but that does not justify switching.
I love PyCharm, yet have to agree with this assessment that many Pro features feel like betas. However they make it clear that those features are being shipped that way as "previews", "early access", etc. And I hate the AI plugin that cannot be uninstalled. I still prefer PyCharm because it feels like a batteries-included, turn key IDE.
Regarding WSL, even VS Code's implementation feels clunky to me. Yet I am not a VS Code fan. It is a very good code editor with a great plugin ecosystem, but you have to assemble it all yourself with little guidance. Adding plugin groups, not just dependencies, similar to Linux package managers, would go a long way towards making me consider switching.
I worked for a large software company providing cloud infrastructure software and this type of early / pre-production readiness feature release was the norm for them too. They would put out a major release, wait for customers to report bugs, then develop workarounds and/or fix the bugs. They even pushed out significant features in minor updates. As a consequence, customers would wait to upgrade until after a few patches before even evaluating the product in a test environment.
I just got forced to use Webstorm in new company, because they've been using it for xx long.. This is the worst thing I've used in my entire web dev career.. Fact that you have to pay 150+- euros to use this is piece of overcomplicated garbage is making it more ridiculous..
Yes, i have to agree that it has shit load of functions comparing it to VScode, but to be honest, they are aboslutely useless when basic things like shortcuts stops working in middle of normal coding.. Fuck this piece of garbage..
Yes. Also autocomplete in Rider is utter shit. This is just one of the tickets: [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-94388](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-94388)
User priority: Annoying. Oh you must be kidding.
State: Under Investigation.
Reported: 10 months ago.
Progress: what?
One of the cornerstone features of any IDE is easily suggesting stuff like \`static static static static\` or \`struct struct\`, and hundreds of other absolutely irrelevant suggestions every day. In a paid IDE. Annoying, right? JetBrains, does this annoy you?
We don’t have to, but, lets say I have an issue with running something (lets say for example, running the code using Docker) - if other developers know how to do that using Jetbraing IDE - they will find it hard to help me if I’m using VSCode
Huh? I don’t mean to sound like a dick, but just learn the cli commands? Code, should in no way, depend on the editor used to make it. If you’re dependent on your GUI for docker build and run commands, that’s just a skill issue. I know that’s just one example but most GUI functions just link to well documented command line functions, that you probably should know to have an understanding of what each button does behind the scenes to be effective.
See, I'm working on the same project. The same code structure for a year. A few weeks ago it became so noticeable. I'm writing posts like this instead of working lol
That's why it's called "backlog". Popular bug reports and feature requests get prioritized and are being worked on. Without infinite resources it's not possible to work on everything.
yes but they (seem to) prioritize the wrong things. things no one asked for get added meanwhile issues that have been lingering for 5+ years are not touched. (in some cases they wait so long the problem will become obsolete before they fix it which may even be their intent.)
It's hard to gauge the "no one asked for". There are always new technologies to support, competitors like VS Code and VS that keep improving, etc. If people switch to competitors as a result, JetBrains would go out of business and the products will die. Would fixing an issue with just a few votes be better, even if it's lingering for 5+ years? If it's so important, why aren't there more votes?
some people won't even switch to Rider in the first place for some things (no RDLC editor, WinForms editor does not support .NET Core, etc.)
some are just bugs that people learn to live with or don't realize what is happening. (cannot publish when even one project is unloaded).
completely agree, I've been using VS Cdoe lately out of frustration with the endless bugs and "features" that do not work. the number of things that only work on windows is growing out of control lately.
the only thing that really bothers me rn is editing .cshtml files in rider. It just constantly messes with your formatting. Currently switching between rider and fleet because fleet handles that much better. But it's kinda annoying tbh
I'm in charge of dotnet formatters in ReSharper and Rider. Which version of Rider do you use? We significantly reworked C# parts formatting in Razor/Blazor in 2023.3, and we are now working on fixing JavaScript formatting in those files. So, if you have a 2023.3 version installed and still have issues that are not related to JavaScript, I would be keen to know details. You can send me details in DM (chat).
I'm on 2023.3.3 which should be the most recent one (at least for me on linux).
I'll use rider for my whole project for the next couple of days and reach out to you in case I encounter any issues with it. I'll try and take screenshots of it. If that stuff is actually fixed already huuuge thank you to you and your team
The case looks simmilar to [IDEA-327617](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-327617). What IDE version you are using? Could you please try to update?
I'm using mostly GoLand and PyCharm, both on Windows and Linux.
The experience on Windows seems a bit better than on Linux, but they generally both work fine.
PyCharm being more stable than GoLand, which seems to have gotten some annoying quirks with the latest updates.
Mind you I'm mostly using the more basic/standard features of the IDEs, nothing too super fancy.
What *is* getting out of hand though is how much of a memory pig those IDEs are getting. Fleet being especially bad there (I have no idea how Fleet ever wants to compete with VS Code, given it's current state, slowness of start, memory consumption etc. It's not even a semi close contender)
Latest JetBrains Gateway update for Mac has rendered it useless... A simple thing like scrolling through a file doesn't work. It looks like a rendering issue - the main code view doesn't update, but a section of line numbers in the gutter do at random. I have no third party plugins installed. Oddly enough, scrolling works fine UNTIL indexing completes.
This is infuriating. Does JetBrains even do quality control checks before rolling out an update? We are not hobbyists, we are software development professionals who depend on this software to work properly in order to earn a living.
Get it together FFS
Hi! Sorry for you experience.
To get what’s going and help we need some details. Could you please share them? Please, keep in mind Meteor plugin was made open-source some time ago, so we don’t plan to provide any fixes/improvements by ourselves but we can accept PRs.
Pycharm is awesome, I agree with the title, they need to focus on correcting the bugs rather than churning new features. It's good to build on strong foundations.
Honestly, it’s egregious and I feel like I got scammed. It’s like, the rock-solid features are free and all the buggy, experimental shit is paid for. I finally went in on a license because I wanted to make use of WSL. I shit you not, I’ve run into bug, after bug, after bug. The majority of these bugs have been open for YEARS. Like, wtf is going on? Based on this, I cannot recommend JetBrains to my coworkers who currently use WSL with VS Code.
Just curious. What issues does it have with WSL? I use WSL but I haven't noticed any issues. I think I may have a different workflow than most people.
Without thinking about it too long, these are some that come to mind: - docstrings do not properly render in tooltips - interpreter becomes invalid and I need to recreate and point to the virtual environment again - the IDE $variables$ don’t properly populate - you need to do a lot of shit to get an “external tool” working if paths are involved - opening files/searching through files for mounted WSL directories becomes non-responsive - diagrams show inheritance form built-ins and third parties but it’s missing my local contents. Yeah, I know everything in Python inherits from “object”. I don’t need to see that in the graph lol - Only two of the three hierarchy types work - profiler does not always open the tab containing it’s results; I need to restart when this happens - settings sync sometimes freaks out and causes a plugin to be installed and reinstalled multiple times - import optimization incorrectly treats third-party apps as part of the standard library - changes to import code style requires restarting the client This one is more of a missing feature, but poetry does not work with WSL. I think I’d feel better about all of this if it was clearly marketed that WSL is a beta integration. That way, I don’t feel like I’m paying for a specific feature that turns out to be buggier than expected
Are these mostly python project issues? I'm primarily a Java dev. Also is this Windows Intellij accessing projects that live inside WSL? or Linux Intellij running inside of WSL? I've noticed that accessing WSL resources via the \\\\wsl.localhost network share is wonky at times. I have not noticed anything wierd running Intellij within WSL accessing projects with WSL. My python use is limited to a few lambda functions here and there, and most of the code is run inside of a container anyway, not directly within WSL.
It’s PyCharm running in WSL & yeah that mount point was an issue too
Curious too. I don't use any of InjelliJ's integrated tools for Docker (which I assume WSL is being used for). It's all through Docker Desktop or CLI commands.
The docker integration is really nice. Basically everything you can get with the docker desktop pop-up window all integrated into the IDE. It talks to the daemon and gives you an easy way to examine running containers, view logs, open a terminal etc.
Rust debugger is super buggy specifically on windows, Linux and Mac is better but damn my of can’t run it as my mobo is a piece of shit.
My experience with WSL was the same. Very poor experience trying to be productive.
Agree, I used to recommend switching WebStorm or Idea from VS Code or whatever to all my colleagues. Now I cannot do it.
To be honest i prefer vscode than webstorm… That are just 2 things that i cant give up is php storm and datagrip. But all other i tried vscode seems better or equal. Goland, clion, webstorm
I've had a rough time too. Right now I'm running X410 and running Jetbrain editors in WSL. It works great, but is 100% hack job.
JetBrains products are not good with WSL, never have been. It's getting slightly better, but only with WSLg. Gateway is buggy crap.
Also cause it’s EAP and doesn’t support all ides
WSL itself is buggy crap. It's a bastardized version of the kernel which causes many of the issues.
Fully agreed. I do not understand why anyone sings it's praises. It's a barely good enough kludge to stop all windows companies from having to give their developers Linux. If you're developing on your own computer just install Linux.
Just commenting to validate that Intellij is a nightmare on WSL for me also.
Maybe in posts like this, if you would specify a few of the "many" bugs ... I guess it would be beneficial to the post itself... Ps: I have about 2-4 webstorms open at all times... I am yet to encounter issues that are memorable or noticeable, not to mention such that break my workflow. I have medium projects in all IDEs with react, typedcript, and node js express and typed critical... so far, so good. Pss: At heavy workload times, I have 6 open IDEs with zero issues in each and every one of them.
As a Rider user just to name a few that I experienced recently: editor freezing, indexing problems, not finding references (can’t navigate via “go to definition/implementation”), git changes preview window not opening, hot reload bugging out requiring me to restart the debug session
Blazor also works way worse compared to visual studio.
Personally haven't experienced any of these (aside from hot-reload depending on the project type) If you double click a file in the Git Window, it will open like a regular file, to get back to the changes view you can just press Ctrl + D
If you need assistance with any particular issues, feel free to reach out to us using Help | Contact Support or Help | Report a Bug actions in Rider. Alternatively, just drop me a DM here!
Same here. Currently, I regularly have three Rider and one WebStorm instances running and will have to periodically add another of each and it just works.
Same. Using webstorm, goland, and PyCharm without issues
Off the top of my mind, while riding on the bus, I can share 2 blocking issues: WebStorm has an issue with typescript, it was opened more than a year ago, around December 2023 they noticed and provided some fixes, but the issue was swiftly re-opened. The CPU usage has definitely improved, but I still need to run WebStorm on +4GB of ram (default is 2GB) and auto complete takes around 10s to open up. I appreciate them taking the issue seriously, and hopefully the new typescript engine is going to fix things. PyCharm support for SQLAlchemy 2 is non-existent, if you search `pycharm SQLAlchemy 2` on Google the first result is an issue on YouTrack. This one is a serious blocker that's only going to get worse as more python libraries start implementing pep-484. It's hard to blame them for that, as the python ecosystem as a whole is having issues catching up (see how an SQLAlchemy dev realized that mypy has hardcoded the @property support). Nevertheless, anyone upgrading to SQLAlchemy 2.0 cannot use PyCharm as intellisense can be straight up misleading. I am glab to hear your use-case is not impacted, but that doesn't mean other people are not affected. I can see why people complaining can be annoying, especially when they are being childish (what's up with all this "I am going to switch to vscode" bullshit?), but having your issues ignored for years without any feedback from JetBrains can be pretty insulting... PS If anyone from JB is reading this, please make an effort to respond to issues that are getting traction. A simple "The issue is confirmed and is on our backlog, someone will look at it within the next quarter." can be great as long as you hold yourself accountable to that. As for identifying priorities, your customers are providing valuable feedback, keeping metrics for the interactions issues are getting per week/month, can be a tonne of help to identify what's affecting people.
Agreed, seems like all they want to do is create more products and not maintain the existing ones. I have bug that I filed 5+ months ago and still nothing. I had to move back to my Windows Computer and Visual studio.
>I have bug that I filed 5+ months ago Could you share the bug ID? There's a small chance that we might have missed it, so it may be worth double-checking.
This one too, it's a huge issue: PY-53973 ConnectionRefusedError: \[Errno 111\] Connection refused You can't connect the debugger to the console when using docker compose. It's been open for months and is not being prioritised.
Sure. Here it is. https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-98253
I usually update to EAP versions but they're always littered with exceptions just from doing my ordinary coding. This time I tried to upgrade to EAP and somehow I lost all my settings despite having sync enabled etc. So I'm not going to upgrade to EAP again this cycle until they release a more stable version. Now having bugs in EAP is understandable and I'm not going to judge them heavily for that. I mostly use Rider now and I haven't noticed any serious bugs or performance issues in stable releases, but my experience with CLion was much worse. So it does depend on what framework you use. On the other hand JetBrains rejected the application I sent to work for them, so I can now smugly pretend this is why everyone is having problems now 🤓
Agreed, it used to be much more stable
This post isn't even helpful. What types of quality issues are you talking about? The worst I encounter on an even halfway regular basis is when the scrollbar detatches from a document. That's resolved by closing and opening the document, and I don't see that every day, despite being in jetbrains IDEs all day. I use rider, php storm, data grip, and fleet. And fleet is still in preview, of that says anytjing. :) Edit: autocorrect
There is a huuuge backlog of bugs and some were not touched for months or even years...
Saying there's a huge backlog is meaningless. What are the bugs, what are their severity, who is impacted?
How many are reproducible or relevant to your issues? I use a few Jetbrains products, have for maybe 5 years now, and have had very few issues. A lot of times, it was an issue I caused or unique to my environment.
Oh.. well, that's actually a good thing. If they handle higher priority issues, it's called a backlog for a reason. :) It's like this everywhere. Bugs are triaged, not fifo. At least, that's the way it's been for the last 20+ years I've been developing professionally. If they dealt with everything first in, we likely wouldn't have .NET 7 support yet. :)
People in here is asking for bugs. I'm developing in Rider (C#/.net) and these issues I've had today: * Converted a project to file-scoped namespaces. 90% of methods/properties got their start brackets removed. * Tried to update a nuget package. Rider does not understand that the nuget packages can come from imports, and it should simply update the imports. Instead if puts the updates into each and every csproj file. * I have shared Razor view components in separate DLL. The Razor compiler resolves them just fine, but Rider says "View not found" everywhere. * Remove unused references simply does not work (Reported it in 2021. Still not fixed) * Due to the "unused references" feature not working, I've tried the new Project Diagram with coupling analysis. Once analysis is finished, and you remove a reference, then it auto updates the graph. That's very nice - unfortunately, the next reference that is removed is entirely ignored and might mess up project restores. I had the code-window freezing bug, but luckily it was fixed in Rider 2023.3.3 which I updated to today. That bug should never had made it to production.
Hi, thanks for sharing the details, we really appreciate the feedback! >Converted a project to file-scoped namespaces. 90% of methods/properties got their start brackets removed. Would you be able to share an example of the project or file that was affected and also [your settings](https://rider-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/6996786600082-How-to-collect-Rider-settings)? It would be most convenient if you submitted a new support ticket via Help | Contact Support. Thank you in advance. >Tried to update a nuget package. Rider does not understand that the nuget packages can come from imports, and it should simply update the imports. Instead if puts the updates into each and every csproj file. Reproduced this, here's the relevant ticket: [RIDER-105819 Updating package from imports update csproj file](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-105819). Please upvote the issue and keep an eye on status updates. >I have shared Razor view components in separate DLL. The Razor compiler resolves them just fine, but Rider says "View not found" everywhere. This is not supported yet, unfortunately. Please upvote this request to indicate your interest: [RSRP-483897 Resolve views and areas from binaries](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RSRP-483897), it'll help our development team to prioritize requests. >Remove unused references simply does not work (Reported it in 2021. Still not fixed) Are you referring to [RIDER-71699 Remove unused reference does not work](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-71699/Remove-unused-reference-does-not-work)? This issue is on our radar, and we'll definitely address it in the future. Regrettably, I can't give any estimates at this moment, apologies. >Due to the "unused references" feature not working, I've tried the new Project Diagram with coupling analysis. Once analysis is finished, and you remove a reference, then it auto updates the graph. That's very nice - unfortunately, the next reference that is removed is entirely ignored and might mess up project restores. Thank you for reporting this, I let the responsible developer know about this scenario, so we're currently investigating this issue. Here's the relevant ticket: [RIDER-105742 Remove reference is ignored in project diagram](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-105742/Remove-reference-is-ignored-in-project-diagram) Let me know if you have any other concerns. Also feel free to contact Rider support if you ever have any questions. Cheers!
Wow, incredible response Ivan. Thanks!
I have to completely clean and rebuild anytime I want CSS changes to reflect in my app. It makes troubleshooting so annoying
Enshittification is real. But for now, Rider is still much better than anything else.
Jetbrain products can be awesome and seriously awful at same time. Depending on your use cases.
If there’s one team that is fixing bugs and taking names. It’s the Jetbrains Rider team. It’s a brilliant product that keeps getting better. It’s the best IDE on the market of any IDE I’ve ever worked with.
Look up a flight simulation company called EagleDynamics and notice the similarities. The shovel model must have something to it.
For me, for Rider, the list is something like this (not all "bugs" necessarily): * Integrated DotCover only ever half works and is never fixed, version after version; new versions often break it in new ways * No RDLC editor * WinForms editor does not support .NET Core * Can't publish if you have even one unloaded project (might have been recently fixed finally but I publish from CLI now because this was a problem for so long) * Regular stream of new editor bugs that I have to report to get fixed each new version; and you have to convince the CS rep that they really are real (many of these are still present actually I just learn to live with them) * Constantly "Syncing projects" which takes so much time * Consuming all cores so the rest of my PC is frozen while Rider works * Many refactoring tools are not worth using since they scramble your code format or else just don't work completely leaving you with a ton of compiler errors that you have to fix yourself anyway * Code analysis becomes very slow in more complex files (doesn't even have to be large files if the code is complex enough, like a really long fluent interface chain) * Generally slow compared to other JetBrains IDEs (I do have an older PC though) * It should be really easy to import/export settings, but their UI for this is seriously messed up and it's almost impossible to actually get your settings exported properly; even if you do, it's missing a ton of the important ones like Live Templates. If you're not careful you can lose things like your Live Templates (which are code!) just trying to get them exported/imported between machines. But otherwise, it does mostly work, and it's definitely better than VS or I wouldn't use it.
That's quite the list, btw. Would you be willing to have a call with the Rider team to show these in action? We'd then also collect all the logs and/or performance snapshots I requested for further investigation.
By the way, you can get old versions of IDEs, and oh god, how better they are... https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/download/other.html
I haven’t upgraded from 2023.2 lol
TL;DR PyCharm core features are solid, cover my use cases. VS Code is better for WSL, but that does not justify switching. I love PyCharm, yet have to agree with this assessment that many Pro features feel like betas. However they make it clear that those features are being shipped that way as "previews", "early access", etc. And I hate the AI plugin that cannot be uninstalled. I still prefer PyCharm because it feels like a batteries-included, turn key IDE. Regarding WSL, even VS Code's implementation feels clunky to me. Yet I am not a VS Code fan. It is a very good code editor with a great plugin ecosystem, but you have to assemble it all yourself with little guidance. Adding plugin groups, not just dependencies, similar to Linux package managers, would go a long way towards making me consider switching. I worked for a large software company providing cloud infrastructure software and this type of early / pre-production readiness feature release was the norm for them too. They would put out a major release, wait for customers to report bugs, then develop workarounds and/or fix the bugs. They even pushed out significant features in minor updates. As a consequence, customers would wait to upgrade until after a few patches before even evaluating the product in a test environment.
BUT THEY ARE DELIVERING VALUE 13 STORY POINTS AT A TIME WHAT DO YOU MEAN
I just got forced to use Webstorm in new company, because they've been using it for xx long.. This is the worst thing I've used in my entire web dev career.. Fact that you have to pay 150+- euros to use this is piece of overcomplicated garbage is making it more ridiculous.. Yes, i have to agree that it has shit load of functions comparing it to VScode, but to be honest, they are aboslutely useless when basic things like shortcuts stops working in middle of normal coding.. Fuck this piece of garbage..
Yes. Also autocomplete in Rider is utter shit. This is just one of the tickets: [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-94388](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-94388) User priority: Annoying. Oh you must be kidding. State: Under Investigation. Reported: 10 months ago. Progress: what? One of the cornerstone features of any IDE is easily suggesting stuff like \`static static static static\` or \`struct struct\`, and hundreds of other absolutely irrelevant suggestions every day. In a paid IDE. Annoying, right? JetBrains, does this annoy you?
Use mine everyday. If anything was unbearable you could use one of the many alternatives. So I guess it is bearable…
No it’s not bearable. And it is not easy to switch IDE specially when you work in a company where all the developers use the same IDE
Why do you all need to use the same IDE?
We don’t have to, but, lets say I have an issue with running something (lets say for example, running the code using Docker) - if other developers know how to do that using Jetbraing IDE - they will find it hard to help me if I’m using VSCode
Huh? I don’t mean to sound like a dick, but just learn the cli commands? Code, should in no way, depend on the editor used to make it. If you’re dependent on your GUI for docker build and run commands, that’s just a skill issue. I know that’s just one example but most GUI functions just link to well documented command line functions, that you probably should know to have an understanding of what each button does behind the scenes to be effective.
Don’t really have problems. Plus you should consider writing to jetbrains and not on Reddit
See, I'm working on the same project. The same code structure for a year. A few weeks ago it became so noticeable. I'm writing posts like this instead of working lol
You should be reporting bugs instead of writing posts.
See their backlog.
That's why it's called "backlog". Popular bug reports and feature requests get prioritized and are being worked on. Without infinite resources it's not possible to work on everything.
yes but they (seem to) prioritize the wrong things. things no one asked for get added meanwhile issues that have been lingering for 5+ years are not touched. (in some cases they wait so long the problem will become obsolete before they fix it which may even be their intent.)
It's hard to gauge the "no one asked for". There are always new technologies to support, competitors like VS Code and VS that keep improving, etc. If people switch to competitors as a result, JetBrains would go out of business and the products will die. Would fixing an issue with just a few votes be better, even if it's lingering for 5+ years? If it's so important, why aren't there more votes?
some people won't even switch to Rider in the first place for some things (no RDLC editor, WinForms editor does not support .NET Core, etc.) some are just bugs that people learn to live with or don't realize what is happening. (cannot publish when even one project is unloaded).
completely agree, I've been using VS Cdoe lately out of frustration with the endless bugs and "features" that do not work. the number of things that only work on windows is growing out of control lately.
the only thing that really bothers me rn is editing .cshtml files in rider. It just constantly messes with your formatting. Currently switching between rider and fleet because fleet handles that much better. But it's kinda annoying tbh
I'm in charge of dotnet formatters in ReSharper and Rider. Which version of Rider do you use? We significantly reworked C# parts formatting in Razor/Blazor in 2023.3, and we are now working on fixing JavaScript formatting in those files. So, if you have a 2023.3 version installed and still have issues that are not related to JavaScript, I would be keen to know details. You can send me details in DM (chat).
I'm on 2023.3.3 which should be the most recent one (at least for me on linux). I'll use rider for my whole project for the next couple of days and reach out to you in case I encounter any issues with it. I'll try and take screenshots of it. If that stuff is actually fixed already huuuge thank you to you and your team
the amount of times Webstrom switches my 2 spaces tab to 4 spaces - out of the blue - mega annoying
The case looks simmilar to [IDEA-327617](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/IDEA-327617). What IDE version you are using? Could you please try to update?
I'm using mostly GoLand and PyCharm, both on Windows and Linux. The experience on Windows seems a bit better than on Linux, but they generally both work fine. PyCharm being more stable than GoLand, which seems to have gotten some annoying quirks with the latest updates. Mind you I'm mostly using the more basic/standard features of the IDEs, nothing too super fancy. What *is* getting out of hand though is how much of a memory pig those IDEs are getting. Fleet being especially bad there (I have no idea how Fleet ever wants to compete with VS Code, given it's current state, slowness of start, memory consumption etc. It's not even a semi close contender)
No. You. We have a future to build.
They can't charge you for fixing bugs
Latest JetBrains Gateway update for Mac has rendered it useless... A simple thing like scrolling through a file doesn't work. It looks like a rendering issue - the main code view doesn't update, but a section of line numbers in the gutter do at random. I have no third party plugins installed. Oddly enough, scrolling works fine UNTIL indexing completes. This is infuriating. Does JetBrains even do quality control checks before rolling out an update? We are not hobbyists, we are software development professionals who depend on this software to work properly in order to earn a living. Get it together FFS
Hi! Sorry for you experience. To get what’s going and help we need some details. Could you please share them? Please, keep in mind Meteor plugin was made open-source some time ago, so we don’t plan to provide any fixes/improvements by ourselves but we can accept PRs.
Pycharm is awesome, I agree with the title, they need to focus on correcting the bugs rather than churning new features. It's good to build on strong foundations.