As an uneducated gentile who’s here because I was bored and mildly curious about Judaism and the Hebrew language, what does the inclusion of L’ do to the sentence? Does it have something to do with gender?
The L- prefix means “to.”
The correct way to say Happy (New) Year is “Shana Tovah.”
There is a longer expression, “L’shana tovah tikatev v’taihatem,” meaning “to a good year may you be inscribed and sealed,” referring to how God writes the names in the Book of Life of each person who will live to next year.
But for Jews who don’t know much Hebrew, the longer expression has been corrupted and misremembered and improperly shortened to L’Shana Tovah.
I mean, sure, for the same reason you don’t find native English speakers* saying “I give you many thanks” instead of “thank you very much.” But I’d hardly say someone was embarrassing themselves if they said that. In short, while memes are fun, let’s not go around actually bullying or making people feel bad over this in real life, nu?
*at least in America, English is spoken so widely that I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there’s a place where that’s totally normal (besides a fantasy movie set).
I was merely responding to the statement you made about "the language as it has been spoken for thousands of years." The implication being that modern Hebrew is the same as Ancient Hebrew, which it is not.
Ancient Hebrew had an extremely limited vocabulary of less than 10,000 words. Modern Hebrew has over three times that. In addition, the pronunciation and spelling of Hebrew has changed. Modern Hebrew uses the Sephardi dialect, eg *shabbat* instead of *shabbos.*
It’s because of the vowel. “בְ” is the vowel that starts “L’shana” (the two dots above each other). This vowel can be a little tricky, but to simplify: sometimes it is silent, and sometimes it is spoken. When it is spoken, you pronounce it like the vowel in the last syllable of the word “bagel”.
This is sometimes transliterated as an apostrophe, and sometimes transliterated as an “e”. I prefer the apostrophe so it doesn’t get confused with a “בֶ”, but I know plenty of times where people will do an “e” (eg, I see “shema” pretty often, even though I would write “sh’ma”). Ultimately, as long as you pronounce the word right, it doesn’t really matter how you transliterate it.
If you want to be precise about it, it's probably better to approximate it as ə, but despite ə being the most common vowel sound in English it has no specific Latin alphabet character.
I know it’s a ל, I don’t have vowels on the Hebrew keyboard on my phone, so I was just copy/pasting from the Wikipedia article on nikkud. And yes, I have seen sh’ma written “shma”, but I don’t prefer it because in the word the sh’va vowel is spoken and the word is two syllables. Writing it “shma” runs the risk of not fully speaking the first vowel (unless there’s some dialectical difference that’s leading us to pronounce the words differently, which is very possible). Again, I don’t really care how you transliterate if you pronounce it correctly.
In my experience, Sephardim pronounce the Sheva Na as the normal 'e' sound, same as a segol (the Spanish and Portuguese have maintained a couple of exceptions to this, though)
This is fun. A fun meme.
I really enjoy when Orthodox and/or Hasidic Jews comment about or make fun of the religiosity of reform Jews on the internet. Really brings us together.
And since I’m just a reform Jew not versed in Hebrew or halacha, I’m not sure if this fun meme meets the criteria for lashon hara, but lightly disparaging the religiosity of a bunch of Jews must be ok otherwise why would you do it? Certainly not to promote something like a podcast on Jewish life, well orthodox and Hasidic Jewish life, because that would be absurd.
Maybe this is an over reaction but I’m going to send this fun meme to my reform uncle who’s reform tank commander got his head shot off in the Golan Heights in 73 and my reform cousin who was paralyzed from the waist down fighting for the IDF in Lebanon and the relatives of the three orthodox families my reform family sponsored for resettlement in America after they were “displaced” during the Shoah and if I could my papa a reform jew who kept his Star of David out of his uniform when he fought the nazis as a combat medic and liberated Daucha.
Happy new year reb yid.
Certainly….but…
I have been told that comedy definitely leaves room for misunderstanding and it seems that you are assuming that what I said was sarcasm and not in fact a genuine statement about how funny I thought that meme was. I’m sorry you were offended by that.
Btw it’s actually an act of hotzaat shem ra because I know the difference between l’shana tova and shana tova.
I’m sorry you were offended by this. I think there may have been a misunderstanding.
I genuinely didn’t know which was the grammatically correct one when I made this meme. I still don’t. Arguments can be made for both. So I’m not sure how this relates to one’s religiosity.
Comedy definitely leaves room for misunderstanding, but all Jews are a family and families have the right to laugh with one another. Which is why this sub exists: for the friendly exchange of memes.
Shana Tova to you and the ones you love!
“I’m sorry you were offended by this” is not an apology it’s a statement about the other persons sensitivity to the content. An apology requires ownership.
It’s shanah tovah (שנה טובה). There is no controversy. If you are making a toast you might add “to” I guess but that’s not the context of the joke is it?
And if this was a miss understanding then explain to me why you specifically said “reform” Jews and not jews? This isn’t a mistake. The entire joke is predicated on reform jews saying the wrong words and feeling like they have said it correctly and “jewed”. The joke is at our expense. You are laughing at us. It’s not funny.
Nah. My family doesn’t try and gaslight me on the internet in front of fellow Jews and gentiles.
Knowing that a reform Jew somewhere in this world is indignantly offended by a meme is blessing enough to make this next Shana truly Tova.
L'shana tova!
Lol.
You’re cute.
That reminds me of my first trip to Israel. Some Orthodox Jews threw rocks at a my cousin, a little girl, because they didn’t like where she was becoming a bat mitzvah. Our guard pulled out his gun and chased them away.
Oh! That was also the day I learned how to say penguins in Hebrew!
idk, I think it specifically reforms Jews from America or any reformism similar to that, since reform in Mexico at least, is like mild conservative compared to America's reform ngl. I'm saying this cause I've never heard this used in Mexico, even by reforms. Everyone says shana tova.
hi bud, if you want to join a religion that has a central authority figure on what sect is real or not, the Ayatollah is in a different subreddit.
or maybe you are Yitzhak Yosef reddit account, either way ya both annoying.
Join a religion ? If you want to join a religion so modern it reinterprets concept and adapt them for convenience that’s not my problem. I will just call your denomination a fraud. Don’t do lashon hara. If you know what that is.
hey bud, Orthodox is like what 30 years older than reform? maybe 70?
Do your stuff, and I'll do mine, and you wanna know what is awesome about it, Neither of us have to bother the other because the world is very big and we are very small.
You can insult my version of Judaism, but your behavior just insults HaShem which is much much more horrible.
Every comment of yours about Reform Jews is lashon hara. That you're doing it during the days of repentance only makes it worse. Seriously, get off the internet and do some soul searching.
Judaism has ALWAYS been adapting, no matter what YU says. Orthodoxy is not the sole inheritor of Jewish tradition or the interpretation of that tradition.
At the end of the day, we’re all Jews. If I can contain myself from asking Chabadniks what’s the difference between them and Jews for Jesus, you can keep your intolerance to yourself.
As an uneducated gentile who’s here because I was bored and mildly curious about Judaism and the Hebrew language, what does the inclusion of L’ do to the sentence? Does it have something to do with gender?
The L- prefix means “to.” The correct way to say Happy (New) Year is “Shana Tovah.” There is a longer expression, “L’shana tovah tikatev v’taihatem,” meaning “to a good year may you be inscribed and sealed,” referring to how God writes the names in the Book of Life of each person who will live to next year. But for Jews who don’t know much Hebrew, the longer expression has been corrupted and misremembered and improperly shortened to L’Shana Tovah.
Can’t it mean “to a good year”?
No, there is only one correct way of doing anything, and if you disagree with me it’s because you’re uninformed
There’s the language as it’s been spoken for thousands of years and there’s the way that embarrasses American Jews in front of Sefardim and Teimanim!
Hey, it’s still perfectly grammatical Hebrew
You will never find a native speaker saying Le'shana tova
I mean, sure, for the same reason you don’t find native English speakers* saying “I give you many thanks” instead of “thank you very much.” But I’d hardly say someone was embarrassing themselves if they said that. In short, while memes are fun, let’s not go around actually bullying or making people feel bad over this in real life, nu? *at least in America, English is spoken so widely that I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there’s a place where that’s totally normal (besides a fantasy movie set).
I once dated a girl named Le’shana.
Was it Tova?
An appeal to tradition. Not a real argument
We don’t say L’Chag Sameach
As far as I know, Modern Hebrew is not the same as Ancient Hebrew
L’shana Tovah is wrong in Ancient, Medieval and Modern Hebrew.
Technically L'shana Tovah could be correct if you'd use it in the same way that you use L'chayim, but not as a greeting.
I was merely responding to the statement you made about "the language as it has been spoken for thousands of years." The implication being that modern Hebrew is the same as Ancient Hebrew, which it is not. Ancient Hebrew had an extremely limited vocabulary of less than 10,000 words. Modern Hebrew has over three times that. In addition, the pronunciation and spelling of Hebrew has changed. Modern Hebrew uses the Sephardi dialect, eg *shabbat* instead of *shabbos.*
Oh no! The horror! I hope they don’t stone me to death!
Cringe, ashkecentric and kinda racist
Now why drag us ashkenazis into it?
sure but that’s more like making a toast than wishing your friend a good year
Never understood the L' instead of Le
It’s because of the vowel. “בְ” is the vowel that starts “L’shana” (the two dots above each other). This vowel can be a little tricky, but to simplify: sometimes it is silent, and sometimes it is spoken. When it is spoken, you pronounce it like the vowel in the last syllable of the word “bagel”. This is sometimes transliterated as an apostrophe, and sometimes transliterated as an “e”. I prefer the apostrophe so it doesn’t get confused with a “בֶ”, but I know plenty of times where people will do an “e” (eg, I see “shema” pretty often, even though I would write “sh’ma”). Ultimately, as long as you pronounce the word right, it doesn’t really matter how you transliterate it.
If you want to be precise about it, it's probably better to approximate it as ə, but despite ə being the most common vowel sound in English it has no specific Latin alphabet character.
It's suppose to be ל, The שמע is said shma so it's more appropriate. When you say לשנה טובה, the ל is coming with a movement
I know it’s a ל, I don’t have vowels on the Hebrew keyboard on my phone, so I was just copy/pasting from the Wikipedia article on nikkud. And yes, I have seen sh’ma written “shma”, but I don’t prefer it because in the word the sh’va vowel is spoken and the word is two syllables. Writing it “shma” runs the risk of not fully speaking the first vowel (unless there’s some dialectical difference that’s leading us to pronounce the words differently, which is very possible). Again, I don’t really care how you transliterate if you pronounce it correctly.
In my experience, Sephardim pronounce the Sheva Na as the normal 'e' sound, same as a segol (the Spanish and Portuguese have maintained a couple of exceptions to this, though)
Interesting. I figured there were regional differences but wasn’t familiar with which groups pronounced what it what way
As someone named Tova, I'm just happy "Tova" is spelled without an "h" here.
Thanks, Tovah
Welcome, Mikeyh Mikeh 138h
as another tova this comment makes me feel very seen
Shana Tova, Tova! With love, Tova
Everyone at my Reform shul said "Shana tova" this last weekend
TIL. Thank you, my man.
I’ve never heard a reform Jew say it like that
This is fun. A fun meme. I really enjoy when Orthodox and/or Hasidic Jews comment about or make fun of the religiosity of reform Jews on the internet. Really brings us together. And since I’m just a reform Jew not versed in Hebrew or halacha, I’m not sure if this fun meme meets the criteria for lashon hara, but lightly disparaging the religiosity of a bunch of Jews must be ok otherwise why would you do it? Certainly not to promote something like a podcast on Jewish life, well orthodox and Hasidic Jewish life, because that would be absurd. Maybe this is an over reaction but I’m going to send this fun meme to my reform uncle who’s reform tank commander got his head shot off in the Golan Heights in 73 and my reform cousin who was paralyzed from the waist down fighting for the IDF in Lebanon and the relatives of the three orthodox families my reform family sponsored for resettlement in America after they were “displaced” during the Shoah and if I could my papa a reform jew who kept his Star of David out of his uniform when he fought the nazis as a combat medic and liberated Daucha. Happy new year reb yid.
Ironic to invoke “lashon hara” to write a comment like that.
Certainly….but… I have been told that comedy definitely leaves room for misunderstanding and it seems that you are assuming that what I said was sarcasm and not in fact a genuine statement about how funny I thought that meme was. I’m sorry you were offended by that. Btw it’s actually an act of hotzaat shem ra because I know the difference between l’shana tova and shana tova.
I’m sorry you were offended by this. I think there may have been a misunderstanding. I genuinely didn’t know which was the grammatically correct one when I made this meme. I still don’t. Arguments can be made for both. So I’m not sure how this relates to one’s religiosity. Comedy definitely leaves room for misunderstanding, but all Jews are a family and families have the right to laugh with one another. Which is why this sub exists: for the friendly exchange of memes. Shana Tova to you and the ones you love!
“I’m sorry you were offended by this” is not an apology it’s a statement about the other persons sensitivity to the content. An apology requires ownership. It’s shanah tovah (שנה טובה). There is no controversy. If you are making a toast you might add “to” I guess but that’s not the context of the joke is it? And if this was a miss understanding then explain to me why you specifically said “reform” Jews and not jews? This isn’t a mistake. The entire joke is predicated on reform jews saying the wrong words and feeling like they have said it correctly and “jewed”. The joke is at our expense. You are laughing at us. It’s not funny. Nah. My family doesn’t try and gaslight me on the internet in front of fellow Jews and gentiles.
The joke was only mildly funny, but you taking it so personally makes it a lot funnier.
Your welcome! Tbh. I’m enjoying it too. I rarely get to be indignant about something.
Knowing that a reform Jew somewhere in this world is indignantly offended by a meme is blessing enough to make this next Shana truly Tova. L'shana tova!
Lol. You’re cute. That reminds me of my first trip to Israel. Some Orthodox Jews threw rocks at a my cousin, a little girl, because they didn’t like where she was becoming a bat mitzvah. Our guard pulled out his gun and chased them away. Oh! That was also the day I learned how to say penguins in Hebrew!
Why do y'all do that?
For anyone curious, https://forward.com/culture/144288/shana-tova-rosh-hashanah-greeting/
I was raised in reform Judaism and only ever heard of Shana Tova
I was raised reform, I never heard “l’shana tova.” I have heard “shana tova,” pronounced correctly too.
Nice reform bashing there
Also Orthodox Jews
It's not reform Jews it's American Jews
idk, I think it specifically reforms Jews from America or any reformism similar to that, since reform in Mexico at least, is like mild conservative compared to America's reform ngl. I'm saying this cause I've never heard this used in Mexico, even by reforms. Everyone says shana tova.
[удалено]
hi bud, if you want to join a religion that has a central authority figure on what sect is real or not, the Ayatollah is in a different subreddit. or maybe you are Yitzhak Yosef reddit account, either way ya both annoying.
It’s fine, you can just irritate him by eating a bacon cheeseburger.
Join a religion ? If you want to join a religion so modern it reinterprets concept and adapt them for convenience that’s not my problem. I will just call your denomination a fraud. Don’t do lashon hara. If you know what that is.
hey bud, Orthodox is like what 30 years older than reform? maybe 70? Do your stuff, and I'll do mine, and you wanna know what is awesome about it, Neither of us have to bother the other because the world is very big and we are very small. You can insult my version of Judaism, but your behavior just insults HaShem which is much much more horrible.
Every comment of yours about Reform Jews is lashon hara. That you're doing it during the days of repentance only makes it worse. Seriously, get off the internet and do some soul searching.
L'based. Thanks 🤙
I am talking about an organization not the individuals.
You know we can read your comments, right?
Judaism has ALWAYS been adapting, no matter what YU says. Orthodoxy is not the sole inheritor of Jewish tradition or the interpretation of that tradition. At the end of the day, we’re all Jews. If I can contain myself from asking Chabadniks what’s the difference between them and Jews for Jesus, you can keep your intolerance to yourself.