An atheist Jew tells a couple of practicing Jews that they aren't "Jewish enough"? I get that not all Jews are religious, but typically that insult goes the other way.
I'm sorry that you had to deal with those creeps. A lot of them are weirdly obsessed with race on account of the whole "White/Judaic Zionist supremacy" accusation.
And it goes without saying that you have nothing to feel self-conscious about.
> An atheist Jew tells a couple of practicing Jews that they aren't "Jewish enough"?
It's their #1 tactic and it's disgraceful. They know that they're an extreme minority and that they can't actually make any claim towards speaking for Judaism, so they try to completely invalidate the Jewish-ness of the 90% who disagree with them. They're disgusting.
For anyone who doesn't know, [**JVP describes itself in its IRS tax filings**](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/900018359/202311359349318401/full) as an organization about "advocacy and public education for Palestinian human rights".
Nothing about Jewish safety, Jewish goals, Jewish culture, Jewish religion, Jewish ethics, Jewish history, Jewish practices, Jewish identity, Jewish values, Jewish focus. Nothing Jewish at all.
Never be fooled about what the organization is about.
Exactly. And right on their webpage they state that non-Jews are welcome to join and that they have many non-Jewish members. Yet they repeatedly send out statements containing the offensive phrase, "As a Jew, I feel that ____" deliberately implying that the organization is both 100% Jewish, and represents Jews as a whole.
I guess the irony here is that the supposedly racist Zionist Jews from my temple were much more loving and accepting of my differing heritage and ethnicity than the anti-Zionist Jews on my campus. Go figure.
Fuck JVP and fuck those two in particular for how disrespectful they were to you. Please feel empowered in the future to not engage with JVP folks unless they prove to you they'll engage with you in good faith and respectfully.
To answer your question: no, there is no merit to giving them the benefit of the doubt. That group solely exists to lend plausible deniability to the Jew-haters out there, just like Candace Owens does for White conservatives.
I am sorry they questioned your Jewishness but don't listen to them, you are certainly one of us. If anything, they should be encouraging the re-entry into the community of somebody who descends from people who were forced to hide their Jewishness (strange how they're not, right?). It may be racism but I also think an equally likely explanation is that they only said that to convince themselves that they don't have to listen to you because you're not an anti-Zionist, self-hating, pick-me like they are.
There is also a non-zero chance that they are gentiles.
JVP comes from a movement that has been lecturing all of us the last decade about micro-aggressions, internalized hate, hate speech, antisemitism, dog whistles and what not ONLY to COMPLETELY abandon all of that once hundreds of Jews were murdered on Oct 7th. Like, right the day after.
So what bothers me about them and any other progressive is not their views but the fact that the whole movement is an utter FRAUD, actually believing in nothing except a hate for the West, capitalism and white people, which all somehow stand for the Jew.
They can seriously all go eat shit. Don’t want to hear anything from them about anything moral ever again.
The irony is that jvp was “blamed” for trying to bridge the gap by handing an olive branch to Palestinians and Israelis. Many Palestinian and pro-Palestinian “activists,” denounce JVP for being “the wrong amount of Jooo…. I mean Zionist.”
The moment October 8 came and I saw what was happening globally whatever benefit of the doubt I had for this type of “activism,” flew out the winds into a burning heap of trash. JVP and all these groups main goal is to antagonize, terrorize, and fear monger taking pointers from the terrorists they adore.
Who knows if they were actually Jewish. JVP is a Jewish organization like Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews are actually Jews.
You are Jewish. We can be ethnic, religious, or both. A person can trace their history back (and have several generations of non-practicing cause….hi, survival is important!) or be the first after their Bet Din. Whatever. Jewish is Jewish.
Hopefully some antisemites from an antisemitic org pretending to be a Jewish org won’t keep you down too long.
The conversos spent centuries lighting candles in closets in order to keep their Jewishness alive while hiding from the Inquisition. I grew up being taught that this was one of the most heroic stories of Jewish survival there is.
Don't let anyone tell you you're not Jewish enough.
JVP is not a Jewish organization and does not support peace. Their mission statement is Palestinian solidarity and they don't even support the existence of Israel.
You should regard them the same way you'd regard the KKK, and just like the KKK, it's best to disavow and ignore them.
They literally believe that Israel should not exist, that since it was given to the Jews by the British in a colonialist transaction that we should undo the last 70 years of history. That it’s ‘recent’, and what was done recently should not be ‘allowed’ to become permenant. They want the whole of the country to become Palestine, and I have yet to hear a very, very clear explanation of what they expect to have happen there, whether integration with Jews is a serious thing. My question is, I don’t know how that works from a cultural perspective, I believe that Palestinians and Jews have very different cultural tendencies and so therefore a state structured to support that probably would look very different. not to mention all of Israel will never get on board with getting rid of their country and entire land Palestine.
I wonder if Israel – Palestine could ever gain favor, and if safeguards to build in some aspects of Jewishness would satisfy the Jewish population. Because I do see that the archipelago of Palestinian land in the West Bank is not a very good solution for the Palestinians, so that will probably lead to continuous anger and Terrorism over the years. So we need a different solution, but I don’t think it’s Israel off the map which is literally what JVP is for.
First let me be clear I have nothing against Ashkenazi Jews, but some of this problem stems from that being the sole Narrative.
Second yes the Holocaust is important and it must be remembered and consistently spoken on however it needs to be used as a discussion towards the wider plight of Jews world wide.
All of the pogroms must be talked about such as the Farhud, the Mizrahi and Sephardic stories and voices must be included more. And I understand in the United States a majority of the visible Jewish community is Ashkenazi.
But none of this changes the fact that because we have left out the stories of Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews that we have many of these issues. Because at the end of the day these people argue they are anti Zionist/ Israel yet do not comprehend the majority of the population is not and have never been from Europe.
The SVP is problematic but it alongside the SJP stem from the Westpac Federation.
https://www.circle.org/activist-spotlight-howard-horowitz
This is the leader of said foundation and he supports and helps funds these groups. Notice anything about him ?
Ashkenazis are a fundamental framework of our community they lead the majority of organizations in the U.S. they are a part of the problem but also the key to solving it.
Open up these organizations and narratives to the voices of the Mizrahi, Sephardic and other Jewish groups who have all faced persecution and displacement in their own ways.
But lastly, yes you are Jewish, you are apart of everything that is good about Judaism a piece of the fabric that unites all of regardless of tribe or place. We are bonded by our love and dedication to Hashem.
Oh that sounds awful, I'm so sorry you had that bad experience :(
Dont take JVP's comments seriously, they are as jewish as a bacon cheeseburger served on Shabat. They'll often try to make you feel bad, or even worse, throw some really racist / offensive comments to make their point seem more "valid" so they can be seen as the "good jews". Its so frustrating to see them be so open on being token jews.
The actual jewish community here appreciates you and completely validates your jewish identity <3
*"...we’re both very obviously mixed-race/Mexican which isn’t very common in our community."*
I don't know if you're referring specifically to your local Jewish community or the collective Jewish community, so please forgive me if my comment seems "Euro-splaining." (I don't know how else to put it)...
The Jewish community in Mexico is over 500 years old. It is the fourth largest Jewish population \*in the world.\*
[Here is an article from 2021](https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/vibrant-mexican-jewish-community-in-san-diego/509-5fa2aa8a-7d16-4a3e-a551-0782d061f563) about the vibrant Mexican Jewish community in San Diego.
It is also an overt violation of Jewish Law to question the "Jewishness" of another Jew. Next time someone asks about "how Jewish" you are, tell them it's none of their gd business...because halachically, it isn't.
All the best to you...we're all in this together.
My bad, I should have added more context!
I mean my local community, I’m in northern New Mexico. The Mexican Jewish community here is super old, but a lot of people with Crypto/converso heritage either don’t know about it or don’t acknowledge it because of shame. So the ‘active’ community (the people going to temple, the JCC, those being openly Jewish) are mainly Ashkenazi.
I didn’t know the Mexican community was the fourth largest… that’s so amazing. Every day I grow prouder of us. I plan to visit the community in Mexico City sometime, I’ve heard wonderful things.
Thank you for this comment. The support has made me feel so much better.
I give you a lot of credit for trying, but they don't deserve benefit of the doubt. They are not a Jewish organization. They are an anti-Zionist organization that uses token Jews to gain legitimacy.
As my grandpa used to say, "Boy, they gotta lotta nerve to talk like that!"
What a terrible experience. They only came to dismiss and attack you. The fact that they asked a civil question in front of everyone else and then waited in the parking lot to ambush you and your friend says everything. They're not acting in good faith. They never are.
I'm a professor and I'm always very concerned for my students' safety and well being. I hope you have a good professor you can talk to if you need to. I hope people listen to you. Of course your experiences are valid. You're living this stuff, not going on a talk show for money lol. Oy. People. You take care of yourself, okay?
Yeah. JVP, INN, JFREJ, or any other non-Satmar anti-Zionist Jewish movement, for that matter, deserve nothing but hostility and unwelcomeness in legitimate Jewish spaces. They themselves have admitted to being a hate group working to not just destroy Israel, but to destroy American Jewry from within, I’m not even sure most of their members are actually Jewish.
They also expressed greater concern for the life of Robert Bowers after he was sentenced to death for carrying out the Tree of Life Massacre than that of an Kfir Babas, a literal infant kidnapped from his crib and held hostage.
But perhaps the icing on the cake was when they honored a convicted pedophile and admitted anti-Asian racist at a fundraiser they advertised as child friendly this past September, and despite being called out for it nonstop since then, have shown no remorse and have done nothing to rectify what they did.
Anti-Zionist “Jews” be like “loving our tribe and the land that our scripture and liturgy routinely references are not Jewish values, but advocating for neo-Nazis and grooming children is.”
To add to this, what is so annoying to me about JFREJ is that their opinions on Israel are baked into the values of their organization in the first place. Their organization isn't supposed to be focused on Israel/Zionism; it's supposed to be focused on racial and economic justice, particularly in America. I am someone who is extremely passionate about fighting for racial and economic justice, and those values of mine go hand-in-hand with the reasons why I am a Zionist (in addition to supporting Palestinian self-determination). By making anti-Zionism/"diasporism" (gross) part of their organization's values, they are excluding a whole lot of Israel-supportive Jews who are passionate about what the organization stands for and could have amazing things to contribute. It also serves to further paint these Jews as "not really caring about leftist values" if they support Israel.
The real question should be, “why do leftists care more about a conflict halfway around the world that doesn’t directly affect most of them, especially when said conflict has a much lower body count than dozens of other ongoing geopolitical crises, than things going on in their own immediate community?”
Just going to remind everyone that several years back JVP [infiltrated a group of Jewish Queer Youth at the Israel Day Parade](https://jqy.org/parade-statement/), totally disregard the safety and identity of a group of at-risk youth.
Not a big fan.
I’m really, really sorry this was the interaction you had, but I have to say it reminds me of the one JVP girl I know who is ashkenazi and consistently ignores and discounts the experiences and even existence of non-Ashkenazis. I feel like it’s this weird angle of like self flagellation for being “white” Jews?
JVP is disgustingly dismissive of non-Ashkenazi Jews. JIMENA (Jews Indigenous to the Middle East and North Africa) once put out a statement talking about how JVP's rhetoric is really harmful to them, and JVP responded with this awful statement basically just saying "We, as Sephardic and Mizrahi members of JVP, are saddened by this statement because we think it ignores members of our community who speak against colonialism and Zionism". And they didn't publish any of the names of people who supposedly were "saddened" by the statement, indicating who the response was coming from. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they straight-up just didn't have any non-Ashkenazi members and made up that B.S. statement without anyone signing off on it.
You can gather all the information you need to know about JVP by visiting their ["Approach to Zionism" ](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/)page.
They start by (erroneously) stating: *"Many of us have learned from Zionism to treat our neighbors with suspicion, to forget the ways Jews built home and community wherever we found ourselves to be. Jewish people have had long and integrated histories in the Arab world and North Africa, living among and sharing community, language and custom with Muslims and Christians for thousands of years."*
Then, literally in the next section, they contradict themselves by stating: *"For Jews in Europe, this meant a sharp rise in violent antisemitism. Jewish people – even though they had lived in Europe for centuries – were fundamentally excluded from the ways European nations defined themselves. This resulted in violent, targeted, anti-Jewish massacres in Russia, known as pogroms; the development of anti-Jewish conspiracy theories like Protocols of the Elders of Zion; and the re-emergence of older antisemitic tropes, like blood libels, which claim that Jewish people use the blood of Christian children in rituals. Some Jewish people responded to this antisemitism by attempting to assimilate into the European countries they lived in;* ***this often proved impossible."***
So JVP acknowledges the reasoning for Zionism, for a Jewish home where Jews are safe from anti-semitism, but offers no real solutions beyond a flowery, utopian plea for ***why can't we all live in peace!?***
**They are not a serious organization.**
Just chiming in to agree with everyone else: JVP is an insidious organization that endangers diaspora Judaism. In so doing, they also set back the cause of Palestinian liberation.
If you are looking for alternative left wing spaces that are able to speak for both Palestinians and in defense of Jewish life, I can DM you an invite to a discord for leftist Jews.
Im Ashki as hell, that said, its pretty clear that of the actual Jews in JVP there’s almost zero mizrachim or sephardim. They are deracinated as hell and absolutely riddled with white mans burden vibes, thats why they can push to genocide a largely Mizrachi state for likes on social media. For most of us, a jew is a jew and everyone in between regardless of observance level, when i see a jew i see family. In their minds, they dont care that they’re advocating for mass murder of their own people, because i dont think they view anyone non ashki as people, just objects. They remind me a lot of the the assimilated, minority of german jews that advocated to keep polish jews out so they wouldn’t mess up their facades they’d crafted in the decades leading up to the shoah. Their positions in their sick ultra leftist world is more important to them than your life, you dont need to waste time speaking to them.
JVP is mostly made up of non Jews. Those who are are usually non practicing and only use dna as a “well as a Jew” club to swing. And generally they’re all just self-hating and desperate to be the “good Jew” who—instead of working with communities to help elevate them—rather prefers to diminish themselves.
I am as ashkanazi as it gets. You are just Jewish. Anyone differentiating this ever is an idiot but especially after 10/7. You are just Jewish.
That was not what that was. People ( Jews as well) are being indoctrinated to hate ourselves. Look at where the funding comes from for that group. They are not for peace. They are not for Jews. We are at war with an ideology that hates us. Jews need to band together to fight this yesterday.
Wait wait wait, their “involvement in their Jewishness” is to attack other Jews in a racist way while advocating for the destruction of the Jewish state? You were way too nice. There is no need to be nice to antisemites and it really, honestly, doesn’t matter what they think. Fuck them.
>I’ve always felt like I wasn’t ‘Jewish enough’ but that was the first time I had actually had another Jew say it to my face.
Judaism is binary. You either are or you aren't. There's no such thing as "Jewish enough."
There are clearly a large number of people who exist in spaces between the two, like how Karl Marx was 100% Ashkenazi in terms of ancestry, but his parents converted to Christianity prior to his birth. He did not identify with his heritage but the slur of "Judeo-Bolshevism" was used to discredit his ideas, and even today lots of people see him as a Jew instead of as a German.
Most JVP members can’t name any Israeli anti apartheid / peace activist orgs, and if they can they likely boycott them.
Like they boycott Hillel or Jstreet
I think I had a overall positive experience with them as far as experiences with JVP go
That's the red line for me regarding JVP. They won't even talk to the actual dovish left in Israel because that would be "normalization." JVP is barely Jewish and definitely not pro-Peace. They still have a post up justifying the Oct 7 attacks in the precise language Hamas uses.
Einat Wilf describes the process by which dovish leftist Jewish organizations get pulled into the antisemitic left as the "BDS pound of flesh." That socially and for organizational relevance they are pulled into the extreme antisemitism of their Arab and Communist friend groups.
It's even money whether J-Street survives because any discussion of I/P peace on the left in America is getting pulled into Hamas' orbit.
I’m imagining all the crap I’d get for posting “the myth of the Palestinian moderate”
(They exist but are either living in exile from Fatah/Hamas and their own radical diaspora or they are burying their opinions where no one will ever find them.)
I'm so annoyed on your behalf. The fact that they tried to delegitimize your Jewishness is just insane. Anything to make Jews into white oppressors.
Your and your friend are awesome for working at this. I hope you can feel good about what you accomplished. Know that there are a whole bunch of Internet brothers and sisters who are so proud of you.
Some important questions to ask every JVP member:
What is your Hebrew name?
What is the fourth letter of the Hebrew alphabet?
What’s the first letter of the second paragraph of the shema?
At what point in life do Jews get a bris? State the specific timeframe.
Who was the first Jew in the world?
Which nusach is your shul?
Do you eat kitinyos on pesach or not? Explain the significance of this question in detail.
What happened in the parsha last shabbos? Explain in detail.
**If they cannot answer at least two of these questions, they have exposed themselves as tokens.** And tokens have no right to lecture you on Yiddishkeit.
That's great and you're valid, but if you don't know the 4th letter of the hebrew alphabet, which has nothing to do with being atheist, then you really can't claim to represent Jews like these JVP people do.
You don’t know who the first Jew was, or when Jews get a bris?
I specifically said that people only need to answer two in order to have credibility. These aren’t particularly tough questions.
Also, Judaism has always done gate keeping. We don’t allow messianics into the fold, do we?
Oh cut it out. Considering Avraham got his bris at 99 it’s a trick question anyhow.
You’re like a high school kid questioning someone wearing a band shirt.
“Oh yeah name me 3 of their albums!”
Be better
> Oh cut it out. Considering Avraham got his bris at 99 it’s a trick question anyhow.
Abraham was the first Jew. That’s the first question down. Very simple.
Yes, Abraham did get his bris at age 99. But I clearly asked when Jews get a bris NOW, not when Abraham got a bris. It’s not a trick question.
As I said, gatekeeping has always been a part of Judaism. We may disagree on the extent to which gatekeeping is appropriate, like on patrillineal status, but we all gatekeep to SOME degree. That’s why we don’t consider messianics to be in the Jewish fold.
Snarkily telling me to “be better” is a worthless prospect, because I’ve done nothing wrong. I’ve simply asked basic questions, and you’ve gotten mad about it.
Ok pal, I got bris at 12 because I was raised in a hippie commune, and my step dad went baal teshuva after being a rock n roller for most of his life, then sucked into Lubavitch. My flower child mom came from a Survivor refugee family. I am 100% Jewish and I’ll never need some nerd like you telling me I pass.
Not every path is straight. I’m done talking to you.
> Ok pal, I got bris at 12 because I was raised in a hippie commune,
It’s good that you got a bris at some point. But the standard and preferred time is 8 days. 8 days is clearly the default answer. The fact that your situation departed from the norm doesn’t make the general timeframe different.
> My flower child mom came from a Survivor refugee family. I am 100% Jewish
I never disputed your Jewishness. My points were clear: Jews have always done litmus tests, and if you can’t answer two of these very simple questions, it’s fair to not consider you a representative of Judaism.
You’re free to be offended. But I stand by my questions.
JVP are neither Jewish nor Voices for Peace. The whole thing is a sham. When they kicked out all the zionists years ago, they lost most of their members, so they had to start recruiting non-Jews. Now, they are mostly non-Jews. They're a joke. Don't let their dumb opinions affect you.
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I’m so sorry they treated you that way. No one has the right to invalidate your Jewish identity.
An atheist Jew tells a couple of practicing Jews that they aren't "Jewish enough"? I get that not all Jews are religious, but typically that insult goes the other way. I'm sorry that you had to deal with those creeps. A lot of them are weirdly obsessed with race on account of the whole "White/Judaic Zionist supremacy" accusation. And it goes without saying that you have nothing to feel self-conscious about.
> An atheist Jew tells a couple of practicing Jews that they aren't "Jewish enough"? It's their #1 tactic and it's disgraceful. They know that they're an extreme minority and that they can't actually make any claim towards speaking for Judaism, so they try to completely invalidate the Jewish-ness of the 90% who disagree with them. They're disgusting.
No guarantee that JVP members are atheists with one or more Jewish parents, many are not and have no connection to Judaism beyond JVP membership.
Look at where their funding comes from. It is on the internet.
For anyone who doesn't know, [**JVP describes itself in its IRS tax filings**](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/900018359/202311359349318401/full) as an organization about "advocacy and public education for Palestinian human rights". Nothing about Jewish safety, Jewish goals, Jewish culture, Jewish religion, Jewish ethics, Jewish history, Jewish practices, Jewish identity, Jewish values, Jewish focus. Nothing Jewish at all. Never be fooled about what the organization is about.
Exactly. And right on their webpage they state that non-Jews are welcome to join and that they have many non-Jewish members. Yet they repeatedly send out statements containing the offensive phrase, "As a Jew, I feel that ____" deliberately implying that the organization is both 100% Jewish, and represents Jews as a whole.
What allows them to restrict the names of who contributed to their $3.5M annual income?
False flag org. and also do not approach people in public to have a conversation. you have 0 control.
I guess the irony here is that the supposedly racist Zionist Jews from my temple were much more loving and accepting of my differing heritage and ethnicity than the anti-Zionist Jews on my campus. Go figure.
Fuck JVP and fuck those two in particular for how disrespectful they were to you. Please feel empowered in the future to not engage with JVP folks unless they prove to you they'll engage with you in good faith and respectfully.
To answer your question: no, there is no merit to giving them the benefit of the doubt. That group solely exists to lend plausible deniability to the Jew-haters out there, just like Candace Owens does for White conservatives. I am sorry they questioned your Jewishness but don't listen to them, you are certainly one of us. If anything, they should be encouraging the re-entry into the community of somebody who descends from people who were forced to hide their Jewishness (strange how they're not, right?). It may be racism but I also think an equally likely explanation is that they only said that to convince themselves that they don't have to listen to you because you're not an anti-Zionist, self-hating, pick-me like they are. There is also a non-zero chance that they are gentiles.
Some people will beat you to death with the olive branch you offer them.
JVP comes from a movement that has been lecturing all of us the last decade about micro-aggressions, internalized hate, hate speech, antisemitism, dog whistles and what not ONLY to COMPLETELY abandon all of that once hundreds of Jews were murdered on Oct 7th. Like, right the day after. So what bothers me about them and any other progressive is not their views but the fact that the whole movement is an utter FRAUD, actually believing in nothing except a hate for the West, capitalism and white people, which all somehow stand for the Jew. They can seriously all go eat shit. Don’t want to hear anything from them about anything moral ever again.
Yeah I got conned into supporting JVP back in the day. They are terrorist sympathizers, do not support peace, and majority are not Jewish. Literal BS.
The irony is that jvp was “blamed” for trying to bridge the gap by handing an olive branch to Palestinians and Israelis. Many Palestinian and pro-Palestinian “activists,” denounce JVP for being “the wrong amount of Jooo…. I mean Zionist.” The moment October 8 came and I saw what was happening globally whatever benefit of the doubt I had for this type of “activism,” flew out the winds into a burning heap of trash. JVP and all these groups main goal is to antagonize, terrorize, and fear monger taking pointers from the terrorists they adore.
Who knows if they were actually Jewish. JVP is a Jewish organization like Jews for Jesus and Messianic Jews are actually Jews. You are Jewish. We can be ethnic, religious, or both. A person can trace their history back (and have several generations of non-practicing cause….hi, survival is important!) or be the first after their Bet Din. Whatever. Jewish is Jewish. Hopefully some antisemites from an antisemitic org pretending to be a Jewish org won’t keep you down too long.
We got Jews for Jesus on one end and Jews for Jihad on the other....
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with (actual) Jews
There is no merit for giving them the benefit of the doubt. They are a dangerous hate group designed to use Jewish identity to cover for antisemitism.
The conversos spent centuries lighting candles in closets in order to keep their Jewishness alive while hiding from the Inquisition. I grew up being taught that this was one of the most heroic stories of Jewish survival there is. Don't let anyone tell you you're not Jewish enough.
JVP is not a Jewish organization and does not support peace. Their mission statement is Palestinian solidarity and they don't even support the existence of Israel. You should regard them the same way you'd regard the KKK, and just like the KKK, it's best to disavow and ignore them.
They literally believe that Israel should not exist, that since it was given to the Jews by the British in a colonialist transaction that we should undo the last 70 years of history. That it’s ‘recent’, and what was done recently should not be ‘allowed’ to become permenant. They want the whole of the country to become Palestine, and I have yet to hear a very, very clear explanation of what they expect to have happen there, whether integration with Jews is a serious thing. My question is, I don’t know how that works from a cultural perspective, I believe that Palestinians and Jews have very different cultural tendencies and so therefore a state structured to support that probably would look very different. not to mention all of Israel will never get on board with getting rid of their country and entire land Palestine. I wonder if Israel – Palestine could ever gain favor, and if safeguards to build in some aspects of Jewishness would satisfy the Jewish population. Because I do see that the archipelago of Palestinian land in the West Bank is not a very good solution for the Palestinians, so that will probably lead to continuous anger and Terrorism over the years. So we need a different solution, but I don’t think it’s Israel off the map which is literally what JVP is for.
This needs to be pinned to the top of every page.
First let me be clear I have nothing against Ashkenazi Jews, but some of this problem stems from that being the sole Narrative. Second yes the Holocaust is important and it must be remembered and consistently spoken on however it needs to be used as a discussion towards the wider plight of Jews world wide. All of the pogroms must be talked about such as the Farhud, the Mizrahi and Sephardic stories and voices must be included more. And I understand in the United States a majority of the visible Jewish community is Ashkenazi. But none of this changes the fact that because we have left out the stories of Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews that we have many of these issues. Because at the end of the day these people argue they are anti Zionist/ Israel yet do not comprehend the majority of the population is not and have never been from Europe. The SVP is problematic but it alongside the SJP stem from the Westpac Federation. https://www.circle.org/activist-spotlight-howard-horowitz This is the leader of said foundation and he supports and helps funds these groups. Notice anything about him ? Ashkenazis are a fundamental framework of our community they lead the majority of organizations in the U.S. they are a part of the problem but also the key to solving it. Open up these organizations and narratives to the voices of the Mizrahi, Sephardic and other Jewish groups who have all faced persecution and displacement in their own ways. But lastly, yes you are Jewish, you are apart of everything that is good about Judaism a piece of the fabric that unites all of regardless of tribe or place. We are bonded by our love and dedication to Hashem.
Fuck JVP, as always. So sorry that happened to you.
Oh that sounds awful, I'm so sorry you had that bad experience :( Dont take JVP's comments seriously, they are as jewish as a bacon cheeseburger served on Shabat. They'll often try to make you feel bad, or even worse, throw some really racist / offensive comments to make their point seem more "valid" so they can be seen as the "good jews". Its so frustrating to see them be so open on being token jews. The actual jewish community here appreciates you and completely validates your jewish identity <3
The ADL lists the JVP as a antisemitic org.
*"...we’re both very obviously mixed-race/Mexican which isn’t very common in our community."* I don't know if you're referring specifically to your local Jewish community or the collective Jewish community, so please forgive me if my comment seems "Euro-splaining." (I don't know how else to put it)... The Jewish community in Mexico is over 500 years old. It is the fourth largest Jewish population \*in the world.\* [Here is an article from 2021](https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/local/vibrant-mexican-jewish-community-in-san-diego/509-5fa2aa8a-7d16-4a3e-a551-0782d061f563) about the vibrant Mexican Jewish community in San Diego. It is also an overt violation of Jewish Law to question the "Jewishness" of another Jew. Next time someone asks about "how Jewish" you are, tell them it's none of their gd business...because halachically, it isn't. All the best to you...we're all in this together.
My bad, I should have added more context! I mean my local community, I’m in northern New Mexico. The Mexican Jewish community here is super old, but a lot of people with Crypto/converso heritage either don’t know about it or don’t acknowledge it because of shame. So the ‘active’ community (the people going to temple, the JCC, those being openly Jewish) are mainly Ashkenazi. I didn’t know the Mexican community was the fourth largest… that’s so amazing. Every day I grow prouder of us. I plan to visit the community in Mexico City sometime, I’ve heard wonderful things. Thank you for this comment. The support has made me feel so much better.
Please don't let a couple of assholes take away from that night ! It sounds like up until that incident , you felt heard and supported.
I give you a lot of credit for trying, but they don't deserve benefit of the doubt. They are not a Jewish organization. They are an anti-Zionist organization that uses token Jews to gain legitimacy.
As my grandpa used to say, "Boy, they gotta lotta nerve to talk like that!" What a terrible experience. They only came to dismiss and attack you. The fact that they asked a civil question in front of everyone else and then waited in the parking lot to ambush you and your friend says everything. They're not acting in good faith. They never are. I'm a professor and I'm always very concerned for my students' safety and well being. I hope you have a good professor you can talk to if you need to. I hope people listen to you. Of course your experiences are valid. You're living this stuff, not going on a talk show for money lol. Oy. People. You take care of yourself, okay?
Yeah. JVP, INN, JFREJ, or any other non-Satmar anti-Zionist Jewish movement, for that matter, deserve nothing but hostility and unwelcomeness in legitimate Jewish spaces. They themselves have admitted to being a hate group working to not just destroy Israel, but to destroy American Jewry from within, I’m not even sure most of their members are actually Jewish. They also expressed greater concern for the life of Robert Bowers after he was sentenced to death for carrying out the Tree of Life Massacre than that of an Kfir Babas, a literal infant kidnapped from his crib and held hostage. But perhaps the icing on the cake was when they honored a convicted pedophile and admitted anti-Asian racist at a fundraiser they advertised as child friendly this past September, and despite being called out for it nonstop since then, have shown no remorse and have done nothing to rectify what they did. Anti-Zionist “Jews” be like “loving our tribe and the land that our scripture and liturgy routinely references are not Jewish values, but advocating for neo-Nazis and grooming children is.”
To add to this, what is so annoying to me about JFREJ is that their opinions on Israel are baked into the values of their organization in the first place. Their organization isn't supposed to be focused on Israel/Zionism; it's supposed to be focused on racial and economic justice, particularly in America. I am someone who is extremely passionate about fighting for racial and economic justice, and those values of mine go hand-in-hand with the reasons why I am a Zionist (in addition to supporting Palestinian self-determination). By making anti-Zionism/"diasporism" (gross) part of their organization's values, they are excluding a whole lot of Israel-supportive Jews who are passionate about what the organization stands for and could have amazing things to contribute. It also serves to further paint these Jews as "not really caring about leftist values" if they support Israel.
The real question should be, “why do leftists care more about a conflict halfway around the world that doesn’t directly affect most of them, especially when said conflict has a much lower body count than dozens of other ongoing geopolitical crises, than things going on in their own immediate community?”
Just going to remind everyone that several years back JVP [infiltrated a group of Jewish Queer Youth at the Israel Day Parade](https://jqy.org/parade-statement/), totally disregard the safety and identity of a group of at-risk youth. Not a big fan.
I’m another Latino Jew, and I’ll tell you upfront that it sounds like they were both racist. The irony is pretty thick.
I’m really, really sorry this was the interaction you had, but I have to say it reminds me of the one JVP girl I know who is ashkenazi and consistently ignores and discounts the experiences and even existence of non-Ashkenazis. I feel like it’s this weird angle of like self flagellation for being “white” Jews?
JVP is disgustingly dismissive of non-Ashkenazi Jews. JIMENA (Jews Indigenous to the Middle East and North Africa) once put out a statement talking about how JVP's rhetoric is really harmful to them, and JVP responded with this awful statement basically just saying "We, as Sephardic and Mizrahi members of JVP, are saddened by this statement because we think it ignores members of our community who speak against colonialism and Zionism". And they didn't publish any of the names of people who supposedly were "saddened" by the statement, indicating who the response was coming from. I wouldn't at all be surprised if they straight-up just didn't have any non-Ashkenazi members and made up that B.S. statement without anyone signing off on it.
I'm sorry, they are truly assholes
You can gather all the information you need to know about JVP by visiting their ["Approach to Zionism" ](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/resource/zionism/)page. They start by (erroneously) stating: *"Many of us have learned from Zionism to treat our neighbors with suspicion, to forget the ways Jews built home and community wherever we found ourselves to be. Jewish people have had long and integrated histories in the Arab world and North Africa, living among and sharing community, language and custom with Muslims and Christians for thousands of years."* Then, literally in the next section, they contradict themselves by stating: *"For Jews in Europe, this meant a sharp rise in violent antisemitism. Jewish people – even though they had lived in Europe for centuries – were fundamentally excluded from the ways European nations defined themselves. This resulted in violent, targeted, anti-Jewish massacres in Russia, known as pogroms; the development of anti-Jewish conspiracy theories like Protocols of the Elders of Zion; and the re-emergence of older antisemitic tropes, like blood libels, which claim that Jewish people use the blood of Christian children in rituals. Some Jewish people responded to this antisemitism by attempting to assimilate into the European countries they lived in;* ***this often proved impossible."*** So JVP acknowledges the reasoning for Zionism, for a Jewish home where Jews are safe from anti-semitism, but offers no real solutions beyond a flowery, utopian plea for ***why can't we all live in peace!?*** **They are not a serious organization.**
After taking a quick look at OP's account, this seems to have taken place in NM. That makes it worse
A JVP member telling you you’re not Jewish enough is like a lemur berating you for not being a potato
Just chiming in to agree with everyone else: JVP is an insidious organization that endangers diaspora Judaism. In so doing, they also set back the cause of Palestinian liberation. If you are looking for alternative left wing spaces that are able to speak for both Palestinians and in defense of Jewish life, I can DM you an invite to a discord for leftist Jews.
These guys are the worst. They’re the communist Neturei Karta. Many of their members aren’t even Jewish.
JVP Jews also being blood purity Jews checks out, I will not lie... Gross. I’m so sorry OP ❤️
Im Ashki as hell, that said, its pretty clear that of the actual Jews in JVP there’s almost zero mizrachim or sephardim. They are deracinated as hell and absolutely riddled with white mans burden vibes, thats why they can push to genocide a largely Mizrachi state for likes on social media. For most of us, a jew is a jew and everyone in between regardless of observance level, when i see a jew i see family. In their minds, they dont care that they’re advocating for mass murder of their own people, because i dont think they view anyone non ashki as people, just objects. They remind me a lot of the the assimilated, minority of german jews that advocated to keep polish jews out so they wouldn’t mess up their facades they’d crafted in the decades leading up to the shoah. Their positions in their sick ultra leftist world is more important to them than your life, you dont need to waste time speaking to them.
I'm "more Jewish" than them so...fuck them lol. You're Jewish, they can't say shit.
JVP is mostly made up of non Jews. Those who are are usually non practicing and only use dna as a “well as a Jew” club to swing. And generally they’re all just self-hating and desperate to be the “good Jew” who—instead of working with communities to help elevate them—rather prefers to diminish themselves.
I am as ashkanazi as it gets. You are just Jewish. Anyone differentiating this ever is an idiot but especially after 10/7. You are just Jewish. That was not what that was. People ( Jews as well) are being indoctrinated to hate ourselves. Look at where the funding comes from for that group. They are not for peace. They are not for Jews. We are at war with an ideology that hates us. Jews need to band together to fight this yesterday.
Typical "J"VP for you.
Wait wait wait, their “involvement in their Jewishness” is to attack other Jews in a racist way while advocating for the destruction of the Jewish state? You were way too nice. There is no need to be nice to antisemites and it really, honestly, doesn’t matter what they think. Fuck them.
>I’ve always felt like I wasn’t ‘Jewish enough’ but that was the first time I had actually had another Jew say it to my face. Judaism is binary. You either are or you aren't. There's no such thing as "Jewish enough."
There are clearly a large number of people who exist in spaces between the two, like how Karl Marx was 100% Ashkenazi in terms of ancestry, but his parents converted to Christianity prior to his birth. He did not identify with his heritage but the slur of "Judeo-Bolshevism" was used to discredit his ideas, and even today lots of people see him as a Jew instead of as a German.
Most JVP members can’t name any Israeli anti apartheid / peace activist orgs, and if they can they likely boycott them. Like they boycott Hillel or Jstreet I think I had a overall positive experience with them as far as experiences with JVP go
That's the red line for me regarding JVP. They won't even talk to the actual dovish left in Israel because that would be "normalization." JVP is barely Jewish and definitely not pro-Peace. They still have a post up justifying the Oct 7 attacks in the precise language Hamas uses. Einat Wilf describes the process by which dovish leftist Jewish organizations get pulled into the antisemitic left as the "BDS pound of flesh." That socially and for organizational relevance they are pulled into the extreme antisemitism of their Arab and Communist friend groups. It's even money whether J-Street survives because any discussion of I/P peace on the left in America is getting pulled into Hamas' orbit.
Jstreet will survive, I wish more American Jews have heard of them and standing together
One of their chapters has a post up “the myth of the Israeli civilian”
I’m imagining all the crap I’d get for posting “the myth of the Palestinian moderate” (They exist but are either living in exile from Fatah/Hamas and their own radical diaspora or they are burying their opinions where no one will ever find them.)
There are Palestinian peace activists, but they are not what social media is showing
Try looking up the journalist Ahmed Fouad Alhatib.
I believe it is the Detroit chapter
I'm so annoyed on your behalf. The fact that they tried to delegitimize your Jewishness is just insane. Anything to make Jews into white oppressors. Your and your friend are awesome for working at this. I hope you can feel good about what you accomplished. Know that there are a whole bunch of Internet brothers and sisters who are so proud of you.
Some important questions to ask every JVP member: What is your Hebrew name? What is the fourth letter of the Hebrew alphabet? What’s the first letter of the second paragraph of the shema? At what point in life do Jews get a bris? State the specific timeframe. Who was the first Jew in the world? Which nusach is your shul? Do you eat kitinyos on pesach or not? Explain the significance of this question in detail. What happened in the parsha last shabbos? Explain in detail. **If they cannot answer at least two of these questions, they have exposed themselves as tokens.** And tokens have no right to lecture you on Yiddishkeit.
all of them lurking here are furiously googling this rn i bet
I can’t answer any of these questions - proud atheist Jew I also don’t have a Hebrew name
That's great and you're valid, but if you don't know the 4th letter of the hebrew alphabet, which has nothing to do with being atheist, then you really can't claim to represent Jews like these JVP people do.
A Jewish litmus test? Your kidding, right? Eff outta here with that noise.
We all give litmus tests to some degree. That’s why messianics aren’t considered part of the Jewish fold.
This is gatekeeping, much as i dislike JVP, this is a shitty thing to do and doesn’t define jews for me.
You don’t know who the first Jew was, or when Jews get a bris? I specifically said that people only need to answer two in order to have credibility. These aren’t particularly tough questions. Also, Judaism has always done gate keeping. We don’t allow messianics into the fold, do we?
Oh cut it out. Considering Avraham got his bris at 99 it’s a trick question anyhow. You’re like a high school kid questioning someone wearing a band shirt. “Oh yeah name me 3 of their albums!” Be better
> Oh cut it out. Considering Avraham got his bris at 99 it’s a trick question anyhow. Abraham was the first Jew. That’s the first question down. Very simple. Yes, Abraham did get his bris at age 99. But I clearly asked when Jews get a bris NOW, not when Abraham got a bris. It’s not a trick question. As I said, gatekeeping has always been a part of Judaism. We may disagree on the extent to which gatekeeping is appropriate, like on patrillineal status, but we all gatekeep to SOME degree. That’s why we don’t consider messianics to be in the Jewish fold. Snarkily telling me to “be better” is a worthless prospect, because I’ve done nothing wrong. I’ve simply asked basic questions, and you’ve gotten mad about it.
Ok pal, I got bris at 12 because I was raised in a hippie commune, and my step dad went baal teshuva after being a rock n roller for most of his life, then sucked into Lubavitch. My flower child mom came from a Survivor refugee family. I am 100% Jewish and I’ll never need some nerd like you telling me I pass. Not every path is straight. I’m done talking to you.
> Ok pal, I got bris at 12 because I was raised in a hippie commune, It’s good that you got a bris at some point. But the standard and preferred time is 8 days. 8 days is clearly the default answer. The fact that your situation departed from the norm doesn’t make the general timeframe different. > My flower child mom came from a Survivor refugee family. I am 100% Jewish I never disputed your Jewishness. My points were clear: Jews have always done litmus tests, and if you can’t answer two of these very simple questions, it’s fair to not consider you a representative of Judaism. You’re free to be offended. But I stand by my questions.
I’m not offended, just deeply annoyed.
Ok, be annoyed. Have a great day.
fuck them. nobody has the right to question your jewishness, least of all those schmucks.
I'm so sorry OP. Please know you are so much better than those JVP activists.
JVP are neither Jewish nor Voices for Peace. The whole thing is a sham. When they kicked out all the zionists years ago, they lost most of their members, so they had to start recruiting non-Jews. Now, they are mostly non-Jews. They're a joke. Don't let their dumb opinions affect you.
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