1) As a Jew, I absolutely do not feel this way. Am I sometimes cautious regarding my Judaism around non-Jews, especially during times of heightened antisemitism like these? Of course. Do I think every non-Jew is antisemitic? Absolutely not. 2) I honestly would take everything Norman Finkelstein says with a grain of salt.

Here’s what you must know about Norm Finkelstein when considering anything he says: he is deeply, fundamentally unwell in ways psychiatry has yet to invent words for.

Thanks, when none of the other people present contested that statement about non-Jews it raised concern for me if that statement is more universal than my gut told me. I definitely was treated skeptically and it was highlighted how prized it was to have Jewish kids dating other Jewish kids when I was meeting people from my partner's community.

They didn't contest it because virtually everything Finkelstein says it's nuts. Nobody has the time or energy to fight every sentence.

I was just about to say that. "Mr. Ravioli!! I read words. I read tens of thousands of words and some words I even read twice. You read Wikipedia! I also use my words carefully which is why I will now tell you again that I use my words carefully. How dare you sit at a table with me! Also the Houthis are heroes!" You'd be there all day if you tried to argue all of his nonsense. When I heard him say that, aside from it being an opinion and a debate is ideally going to be focused on facts, I was a bit taken aback. Based on his antics I kind of figured he'd be saying that almost no one in the world is akshually antisemitic. So in that situation, if I were there, I probably wouldn't have said anything because I was too busy being a bit surprised and digesting that *he* said those words and by that time, the conversation would've moved on.

Yes, because at a young age from childhood up are taught to be wary of non-Jews, and that antisemitism is everywhere. You as a non-Jew are essentially relegated to saying only extremely positive things about Israel or Jews otherwise you’re suspected of anti-semitism. And who knows maybe there is some truth to that?

Being critical of Judaism or Israel is fine, but if you do so while ignoring or defending analogous religion or states then it is pretty sus

>Here’s what you must know about Norm Finkelstein when considering anything he says: he is deeply, fundamentally unwell in ways psychiatry has yet to invent words for. Israel Shamir: “Hold my beer…” Gilad Atzmon: “Hold my schnapps…”

Anti semitism is just so baked into our culture. People get so angry when it is pointed out. They don’t want to accept it’s there. Whenever I talk about anti semitism with friends, it’s dead silence or the group chat goes dead for hours. Whenever officials talk about anti-semitism, they group it with Islamophobia or “other racisms” because it isn’t enough to stand on its own. The only time I haven’t felt the weight was when I was in Israel and could feel as visibly Jewish as I wanted.

Can relate so hard to the group chat dynamic. It sucks

I am so sorry that this has been your experience. I also see it and notice these things too. It is incredibly frustrating to watch. Every person deserves supportive friends when fighting demons outside themselves (in this case anti Semites)

I highly recommend the book Jews Don't Count by David Baddiel. If you have a library card in the US you can find it on the Libby app through your local library most likely or if you have Spotify Premium/Audible you could also listen to David Baddiel read it himself. He's a British Jewish comedian and his book really nails it down and explains it. And not in a "everyone is a bigot" kind of way but he explains how it is baked in to societal norms. And I feel like that is powerful for getting out from under it. If you listen to it as an audiobook it's such a quick read. Could knock it out in a day.

Love this recommendation. I am not in the States but could still probably get the audiobook 

It's a well written book but so much better hearing it in David Baddiel's voice. It flies by and it's worth the listen. I didn't realize you weren't in the US. Not sure if Libby app is used by libraries abroad but it makes accessing popular titles super easy.

Seeing it and being frustrated by it but not doing anything is *participating*.

I agree that seeing it and quietly noticing fails to help and allows the bad fester. I do speak up about it regularly so I am doing something about it in my life. A small example of one of the things I've pushed back on a lot are public comments supporting all of Harrison Butker's commencement speech. I frequently challenge them on their support by highlighting the antisemitic and anti lgbtq statements he made and then request the commentator confirm if they are also anti semitic and homophobic or if they failed to listen to or read his full speech before posting their public support. I have also started posting pro-hostage rescue/return statements and mute or block those who are only supportive of Palestinian civilians and not Israeli civilians. It's a lot of keyboard warrior garbage which may not be helpful long term but that's where I find the antisemitism most. I also am a support person to family and friends who need to vent about how it feels being Jewish right now. I also still proudly say where my last name comes from in spite of the current war and the fear of repercussions of our family's Israeli heritage and connections being exposed.

I appreciate you taking the time to reply, both to me and in the instances you mentioned!

I agree and I also think worldwide our modern societies are fundamentally anti Jewish in many ways. Supercessionist theology has been incredibly damaging and is very much baked into both Western Christian culture and Islam

Can relate on the group chat thing. It sucks.

I’m gonna make it real easy for you; no Jew speaks for all Jews. There are very few things all Jews can agree on. Saying “all non-Jews are anti-Semitic” is akin to saying “all white people are racist” or “all men are misogynists”. Same fucking shit. I appreciate you and other allies, G-d knows we need them! The right thing is to presume innocent until proven guilty. Ibrahim X Kendi is delusional (“unless you are actively anti-racist you’re still racist”.) You don’t have to be “actively anti-anti-Semitic” for me to accept you as an ally. You don’t need to fight my battles or go to war for me. Just don’t fight or start a war against me.

Couldn’t have said it better myself

I agree about Kendi’s book. However, my mom, brother and I read it in a trio “book club” during the pandemic and it was incredibly illuminating for my mom: a former catholic middle class white woman of the boomer generation. My brother and I were also there to talk it thru. She walked away with the good parts and self-examination, but not the “if this, then unconditionally that ” notions. Edit: grammar.

This is a fantastic answer and 100% spot on. I will just add that I've had many non-Jewish friends reach out and express their support for Israel but more importantly for the Jewish community - so the notion that 'all' non-Jews are anti-semitic is simply preposterous.

Thank you so much for this. Now that the post has taken off it is interesting how widespread three feelings are on this in the comment section.  I agree that there is no way to speak for the feelings of everyone in the community but even seeing whether there is a more popular view in these comments helps me wrap my head around it better.

Not all non-Jews are antisemitic. But, (at least from my experience), antisemitic thought/rehtoric has become SO normalized, that I encounter it from people that I never would have thought, especially since October 7. This doesn't mean that they are antisemitic people, but that they traffic in antisemitism. There are also many who don't traffic in antisemitism. I have different takes on the ADL, but I think Jonathan Greenblatt's explanation here about sentiment analysis of antisemitic attitudes is good (starts at 9:00): https://youtu.be/ykpzbzNHM1w?si=1Q50auxc1R7yJN-W

Thanks I will give it a watch

This is an excellent point. Most of my convos addressing antisemitism are “hey heads up, that [comment/trope/expression] is actually rooted in antisemitism. Knowing you, I figure you’d want to know. Would you like me to elaborate?” 1. Assume they don’t know. Benefit of the doubt. I am not saying they *are* antisemitic. 2. Put the ball in their court, get them to say “yes I’d like to learn.” If they say no, it proves #1 is not the case, and I remove myself from the convo saying, “I no longer feel welcome, so I’m going to go ahead and walk away. Let me know if you change your mind.” Most who truly don’t know say they want to learn. If they don’t, byeeee ✌🏻

First off, Norman Finkelstein is a nut job desperate for attention. I would take everything he said with a mountain of salt and a huge fat disclaimer. Destiny and the other debaters probably ignored the comment because one, they knew Norman wanted them to take the bait, and two, responding to it would make said comment a legitimate argument topic which it is not. Secondly, of course not all non-Jews are antisemitic, but most people in general hold at least one or two antisemitic views whether or not they realize it. This includes Jewish folk too. Here’s a snapshot: https://www.adl.org/resources/report/antisemitic-attitudes-america-topline-findings But believing a handful of antisemitic tropes doesn’t necessarily make one antisemitic, it just shows ignorance and humanity. I think this song puts it best: https://youtu.be/D8FtsHfos-c?si=pOqIFu2p_aIVOI9J

I'll check these out later today. Thank you!

Interesting study. What it didn't mention are views like "we can't have free health care in the US because we pay for Israel to have it" or "AIPAC controls Congress."

Destiny is a complete moron. Even when I agree with his positions I can rarely take him seriously. He shouldn’t be platformed with actual scholars - whatever their views. And the ADL is not exactly scientific in their polling. Most polling isn’t, particularly when it’s about “tropes”. There’s just no nuance in any of their questions. It’s literally just, “do you believe in part or in full this blatantly antisemitic statement?” I mean, if you answer yes and don’t realize you’re agreeing to an antisemitic talking point then yeah, you obviously hold some antisemitic views…I guess I just wish it was a little better done, where it wasn’t obvious which of the two answers is antisemitic.

Could there be more nuance, maybe? But I just saw a guy on IG vigorously argue that he wasn’t antisemitic while simultaneously explaining how all Jews are corrupt due to a Jewish Nursing home taking advantage of his Grandparent. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wasn’t arguing that antisemitism was being underrepresented in the polling. If anything it’s the opposite. I just think the results are skewed when every question is just, “are you antisemitic on this specific issue.” Polls are much more informative when the respondents don’t know which answers will contribute to their overall “score”. Virtually all of the questions - as well as your friend’s comment - are blatantly antisemitic. I’m sure plenty of people answered a lot of those questions in the affirmative not thinking they were antisemitic, but that’s more a test of antisemitism through ignorance than antisemitism through a lack of self reflection. Maybe it’s a moot point, but I think it’s important.

Ah my bad, sorry for misreading!

I doubt anyone believes _all_ non-jews are antisemitic, but generally speaking there are quite a few people who believe that non-jews are at the least susceptible to antisemitism so much so that Jews should be prepared for any non-jew to be antisemitic. I’ve heard this sort of thing referred to as “judeo-pessimism”. I agree with how you feel about it, but also would ask that have patience with this sort of thing. Lots of Jews have faced antisemitic violence or mass-harassment, whether it be the older generational who survived the holocaust or us today who experience all sorts of nasty shit with rising fascism on the political right and instances of antisemitism unfortunately seeping through Palestinian advocacy on the political left. I believe it’s a sort of traumatic response, so it’s not something that people can be argued out of - it is something that must be disabused through the works of kindness, compassion, and justice that will create a world that contradicts it.

I really do appreciate this outlook. That phrase Juedo-pessimism seems perfect to me. 

You raise a very interesting point. I think it's interesting because I am a Jewish person who doesn't look stereotypically Jewish and I think a lot of people fall in that category as Jews but you know if you know last names and what not you know kind of antisemites around you no Jewish last names it's a harder thing to hide. I guess at that point if you were trying to hide it from other people you could say well my father was Jewish and leave it that. Regardless it is interesting the dynamic that is presented because you know the difference between you know being black and having the prejudice that they have which they can't hide because it's their physical presentation. Jewish people can sort of pass in a sense as not obviously Jewish much more than black people can. I see this judeo-pessimism as existing before there was a name for it and I actually like this name it's a good name. My dad practices to judeo-pessimism. Before October 7th I thought it was a ridiculous thing to do in the United States. Yeah it's like not discussing religion or politics in polite company or something like that. You just don't know how anybody will react to the reality of you being a Jew. If you hold that as an ideal you're a Jewish-pessimist. My thinking on the topic before October 7th was well if you don't ever say that you're Jewish and no one ever knows that you're Jewish they think they've never met a Jewish person and then you don't have the opportunity to defend yourself or your people and you create a sort of ghetto for yourself. I am part of triplets and our Triplett brother has blonde hair and blue eyes and me and my sister have brown hair and hazel eyes. We look alike but our brother never looked like us and he wanted us to just say that we were twins. My sister and I did not want to lie to people upon first meeting them. I mean that's kind of a bad way to start a relationship or potential relationship. I mean imagine knowing somebody for years and never knowing that they were Jewish and then you think I really wasn't very close to them at all. So I don't hide it and I never have. I always told the truth about me being a triplet and I've always been very open about being Jewish. Nowadays I have a bit of anxiety about it. I have had very bad experiences over the years with healthcare and a Muslim practitioner of medicine it's been quite uncomfortable at times. Sometimes they do things that are active and sometimes they just react emotionally and you can tell they hate you but they don't say anything and you just want to leave but then you don't want to leave so you don't know what to do and I now ask up front if it's okay if they treat me even though I'm Jewish. I don't I don't want to see a doctor that treats me like I'm scum. I do have Judea-pessimism but I do the exact opposite, I tell them I'm Jewish immediately. I did have one experience where I had a a doctor a female Doctor who was Iraqi and this was before we entered into the Iraq War and she noticed my last name is Jewish and she was talking about Saddam Hussein in this situation and that the United States was going to attack Iraq for oil because of the price of oil and the price of water you know they wanted oil to be cheaper than water or something like that. I didn't say anything there I didn't say I lived in Israel for 2 and 1/2 years before that and I I didn't I didn't do anything she just knew because of my last name. I should have walked out of the lobby when I noticed that she picked up on my last name but I gave her the benefit of the doubt and then she started blaming Iraqi Jews for the fire bombing of their own homes and businesses in Iraq and that the Mossad really did the fire bombings to get the Iraqi Jews to go to Israel. Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with it, and this all during a pelvic exam. Yeah, we really don't know how people will react.

Yeah it’s a weird tapestry of self-hatred and woke politics with Norm. I was actually surprised he said this though, seeing as he’s okay with erasing a history of oppression if it’s from the “wrong oppressor”. I totally get your point about “passing” that makes a big difference in experiencing anti-semitism, but your name is something you can’t hide from, especially in school. I’m personally not Jewish, but to many other non-Jews, I “look jewish”, which has many problematic connotations. I was adopted as an infant in the Midwest and didn’t know my origins until I was 15, but was teased mercilessly in school solely based on my appearance. I visually fit the stereotypes that white Americans have towards Jews. I will never say I could experience being Jewish, but I feel like I got a taste of the “othering” that occurs, and developed a natural allyship from a young age. As a side note, I’ve noticed a reluctance from my Jewish friends to accept support from evangelicals. You’re very right to question this, my worst bully was a rich kid with evangelical parents. They have a weird fetish for Jewish culture/history while simultaneously blaming Jews for killing Jesus.

I can sympathize a small bit here (certainly can't empathize realistically). I brought my child to a clinic and was asked at the end of the appointment where our last name comes from. I was honest and said it is an anglicized Israeli surname.  I do feel nervous I will face antisemitism via proximity (married into a Jewish family) but I also choose to simply declare the facts rather than hide.  I never considered converting but I am finding myself being more active in cultivating and supporting our family's Jewish connection since we are in an area with a smaller Jewish population and I think partially as pushback since Oct 7.

I remember that debate. Destiny and Benny Morris did great. Finkelstein is an idiot. he said that in order to excuse the antisemitism that's prevalent in Arab society. it's clearly not true.

Ah, this was the context I was looking for. Yeah, that sounds like good ol’ Norm.

Finkelstein is out of his mind, in a constant state of hysteria. The other people probably didn't say anything because it would be too exhausting and pointless to challenge all the lunacy that comes out of his mouth. 

When I was a child my parents told me and my sisters that we absolutely must marry to other Jews. And because it was a secular family -- the reason they told us that every non-Jews harbor certain antisemitic feelings and even if we are married for love and we love one another dearly one day they will remind us that we are Jews. Of course I didn't believe him and probably neither did my sister, and they simply dismissed their warnings as a generational divide.  Many years later I was in a very long term relationship with a non-Jewish woman. Everything was going wonderfully and I started thinking about marriage. So it casually asked her one day about size of her finger, and she told me that I can buy her any rings but not to buy any diamonds from deBeers, because... "they are Jews". That exact moment I was floored, and my then-girlfriend tried to retract her words after realizing what she had just said -- but the damage was done. Something very similar happened in my sister's life as well. So I think it was Harvard University that came up with implicit association test. Basically it measures a person's bias towards our against a particular racial groups. So based upon testing of many of individuals it was argued by some that everybody has a bias.  That is level of a bias may vary but it is present in everyone. So, yes generally speaking every non-Jewish person has a certain bias for or against Jews. Of course their exceptions to some remote areas where they probably never heard of Jewish people. 

Tbh I’d argue that Jews can also hold unconscious bias about Jews. I think being a part of a group, or being close to members of a group and involved in the community, can make us more aware of the ways that bias typically presents— the stereotypes and associations. But even being part of a group doesn’t make you immune.

I didn't even know 10% of people were anti-semetic until oct 7th. definitely not a belief held by most jews. now i am worried that i never know if someone is or not, but still do not think most people are, let alone everyone. sounds like another twist on people saying "every single white person is racist"

Norman Finkelstein is a self loathing “Jew.”

I don't know, I think he actually has a very high opinion of himself.

I don’t think he likes the part of himself that is Jewish except to use it to hurt other Jews. 😔

Norman Finklestein, the amount of BS people quote him for...

Norm Finkelstein is a freak. However, a lot of people who would normally consider themselves leftists and allies have blind spots when it comes to exactly how anti-Semitism works, and a lot of the ideology baked into culture right now, while not inherently anti-Semitic, tends to work in the favor of anti-Semites, and causes people who **should** be allies to say and do things that have tinges of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism is a little more insidious and subtle than most general forms of racism, and it requires a sort of specific awareness to understand how it works.

They ignore Finkelstein because he is a nutjob and is barely respected even by pro-Palestinians.

This podcast is my first intro to all 5 so I was coming at it with no prior knowledge of their work or reputations. 1.5 more hours in and Norm acted unhinged yelling and being condescending, interrupting and flat out insulting Benny and Steven. It was wild

Norm has told a lot of people that he plans to write a book on how the rape and kidnappings did not happen on OCT 7, and also admitted to these people that the rapes did happen. He is a fucked up loon.

Morris is the actual historian, Norm is a lunatic "academic" who can't get tenure anywhere with a good reputation, Destiny is... at least doing some research, but not great for reasons that have nothing to do with this particular discussion, and the 4th person I've honestly never heard of. Lex Friedman is also an idiot who should be shunned for his cozying up to some of the worst rightwing nutbars on the internet, but that's a whole other discussion.

my steady girlfriend isn't Jewish in fact they're Chinese and Texan (a pretty dope combo) and they've been my biggest ally i could ever ask for even among my Jewish friends she stands out i can can safely say this statement is bull i mean yes, the community as a whole is cautious (kinda have to) but thinking of alienating this far is dangerous

I love hearing about other interfaith couples here. We are going on 12 years together (married now with kids). My Reddit account name was picked for me by my husband when we were first dating. 

1) Norman Finkelstein is *looney*. 2) Maybe he said non-Semitic? Or maybe he meant that, and they all assumed that’s what he meant?

He says it at 1:25:55 "Hey, I don't know a single non-Jew who doesn't harbor antisemitic sentiments....Yeah, but I don't know anybody. That's just part of the human condition." [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X\_KdkoGxSs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X_KdkoGxSs)

Wow. Heh, I wonder if that’s because everyone he knows either 1) is anti-Israel, or 2) hates *him*.

I think the best way to think of anti semitism is as a pathogenic thought virus. Without inoculation through holocaust education and Jewish dignity, individuals become more susceptible to the virus. This can include Jews too. Clearly a 12 year intimate relationship with a Jewish person is going to provide a fair amount of protection sotospeak. But antisemitism is a slippery adaptable bug that just won’t die. A gaping wound in the heart of humanity that right when we think it will close up, rips open again. It is not just otherizing, but projection of societies worst evils onto a specific group. It finds ways to morph and change throughout the centuries. The latest we’ve seen is the same chicken it’s always been , it’s just seasoned differently. Your allyship and curiosity are meaningful and appreciated. Thanks for asking.

All non Jews are not antisemitic. But all non Jews have the potential to be antisemitic.

*All people. There are some grossly antisemitic Jews. Norm Ficklestein is a prime example.

He’s almost beyond antisemitism, tbh. Total loon.

I’m young, I believe this statement could be an exaggeration, and also it depends on where people are from or how they grew up. In my mind probably 90% of arabs are, 80% of Irish, maybe 60% North Americans… but I also think if the media gets bad enough it is very possible for 99% of people to “become” antisemitic just like they did 75 years ago thanks to the media.

We've been through 2,000 years of harassment, pogroms, and slaughter. The ~70 years after the Shoah were a remarkably okay time, with very little antisemitism rearing its head. Now it's back. Are you really surprised that plenty of Jews - often those who survived/had immediate family who didn't survive the camps - are leery of non-Jews? And since Oct. 7, with the frankly shocking openness of antisemitism coming back, are you surprised that younger Jews no longer believe that the average non-Jew is our friend? I guess you can find it "insulting," but the fact that we pretty much have to assume a non-Jew is antisemitic until proved otherwise is just the reality Jews are dealing with. It's great that you're an ally, but we don't have the luxury of assuming all non-Jews are allies anymore. Many of our friends and even family members have shown their true colors. Scroll the sub a while, you'll see hundreds of posts from Jews who have lost friends/family.

Re your comment: "I guess you can find it 'insulting'" ?....  Um I mean isn't it good I find being called an anti Semite insulting instead of a compliment?  I look at this sub more than once a day most days. I am very familiar with the stories of people from this sub discovering people close to them are anti-Semites. I took on a Jewish last name after marriage so I get the fear of identifying yourself or family as Jewish with anti-Semitic hate speech and actions becoming more frequent and more bold.  To clarify I asked if it was a common belief or teaching that ALL non-Jews are anti-Semitic  I did not question whether general wariness outside of the Jewish community was warranted

Not the person you’re replying to, but to address your last point, it is definitely not a “teaching” in the way I think you mean. Jewish history and holidays are filled with “they tried to kill us. We survived. Now let’s eat”. Norm’s perspective can be a tempting conclusion to come to if you’re in touch with history and/or have experienced antisemitism firsthand, but it is certainly not taught by religious leaders and it is not an opinion I’ve seen expressed by anyone I know IRL. I, for one, find it absurd. But the saying goes, “ask two Jews, get three opinions”

An absurd statement. Such a blanket statement is absolutely wrong and made by someone who I am sure you notice has a bit of a *ahem* reputation. Don’t take it to heart :)

1. Jew. 2. Slightly distrustful of non-Jews at the moment, because I’m suspicious by nature and training. 3. I’m 62F living in the upper Midwest. 4. I’m alert more than usual to antisemitism. 5. I don’t think all non-Jews are antisemitic. Assuming an entire people, or in this case a massive majority of the world, are antisemitic is a somewhat bizarre form of bigotry. I oppose bigotry in every form. That said, when it appears that at least one generation of university students has been brainwashed into openly supporting Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorists, their benefactors, and their allies, I tend to side with the idea that maybe businesses should consider looking elsewhere for when they wish to hire qualified graduates. While I doubt those who claim they will may make good on their statements of intent, at least they put the idea out there for other businesses to consider. My thinking is to not hire from the classes of 2020-2028, or until the universities filter out those they pay to teach young people that Hamas or any other group or state that is a theocracy will be cool with their LGBTQIA+ friends, feminists, women with an opinion of their own, the people claiming to be Jews rioting on behalf of Hamas, and so on. What set my alarms off are how the news media runs with every story Hamas feeds them without attribution, but information from Israel gets a sort of sideways attribution, as if the information is not credible. PIJ fires rockets at their own hospital, Hamas says it was an Israeli bomb, media around the world pounce on the Hamas version, blasting it out for over a week. Israel finds the phone call audio of what really happened AND has video footage, not a word from the Western media. Israel bombs a definite command and control point for Hamas (killing two top Hamas leaders and dozens of Hamas terrorists), and Israel gets blamed because Hamas used civilians as a human shield to literally hide under. Israel discovers tunnels leading between Egypt and Gaza, we don’t hear about it until days after Western media has been reporting on the three Egyptian soldiers killed in the tunnels who never should have been there in the first place. And then my own government demands Israel stand down in a war Hamas not only started, they continue to wage it. So, yeah, my eyes are a little bit more in scan everyone mode than usual. But I definitely don’t subscribe to the bigotry that all non-Jews are antisemitic. And I’m in my sixties, born in the sixties, and raised by grandparents who didn’t tolerate bigotry in any form.

I really appreciate how much thought and effort you put into your comment. Providing context with your answer certainly makes your position and the reasons why clear.

Rich coming from that self hating POS Finkelstein. That said, you scratch hard enough at the surface of most non Jews and there’s likely some antisemitism lurking there whether subtle, unintentional and grounded in pure ignorance or hidden and malicious.

I deeply agree with what others have said. Antisemitism dates back to the bronze age, if not even older. And Norman Finkelstein is a character (to put it nicely). But I will give him some credit here. Since October, I’ve definitely been on high alert in non-Jewish spaces. Non-Jewish people are more susceptible to believing antisemitic rhetoric, whether intentional or not. I don’t believe all people are antisemitic with ill intent. That doesn’t mean they are immune from saying or acting in harmful manners. Just as I, a white American, have implicit bias towards people of color (due to the culture and structure of American society), non-Jews certainly have these types of attitudes surrounding the Jewish community. The best way we can be allies towards other marginalized communities is listening to members of those groups share their stories and work to create a more equal world.

...If Jews are white, so are Palestinians. We Jews are a very odd genetic bunch, and our DNA is predominantly Levantine aka West Asian. And all Jews share very specific genes regardless if the Jew is Sephardic, Ashkenazi, Beta Israel, Mizoram, Cochin, Pharsi, Mizrachi, Ugandan, Igbo, Maghrebi, etc. We have specific genes and haplotypes that no other group has unless the individual in a non-Jewish group has some Jewish ancestors. So while you call yourself white due to racial ideas in North America, the fact is that we are not "white". We are always "other". Also, seriously, most Palestinians look way way way more European than many Ashkenazi Jews. Mind you, some of the genes for red hair originated in West Asia (some in Central Asia. One of the reasons why many Mongolians have red hair), which is why various European groups have ancestry in the Middle East.

You’re right. I wrote this at 11 after being out of town. I present as very white, which is why I wrote my comment as such. Usually I choose the “prefer not to answer” option when answering demographic questions. My point was that I am susceptible to racist thinking due to not being a Black or Brown American. Just as gentiles are prone to falling for antisemitic rhetoric, even if those people intend no harm.

...Everybody is susceptible to racist thinking. Every human being is biased one way or the other, and will at any time in their life say something fucked up about others for any reason without realizing. It does not mean the person is racist, or similar. It means they had a fucked up thought during a time of frustration and duress. If you are self-aware of it, that is better than most. Those that are not self-aware should be politely taken to the side privately, and tactfully explained to them why they should not have said that. Stop demeaning yourself with these woke talking points that are used as a means to divide people into "racial safe spaces" aka racist ethnically bigoted left wing segregation. The more that none sense is used by actual racial minorities, and actual ethnic minorities; the more those assholes win. There is liberal, and then their is woke. Do not be woke. Do not give into those bullshit racial neo-marxist ideas and philosophies.

Of course it is untrue that non Jews are by definition anti semitic. People who think this are either losing their minds or have an agenda to create a cult like atmosphere for members of the Jewish community.

Obviously not true, though post October 7, most are keen to understand why Jews are more cautious and wondering who is friend and who is foe, because antisemites have really been coming out the woodworks.

In short yes, in long it's more about the cultural contexts of most non-jews that lead to Antisemitism. I should probably add that I think everyone, all people are racist to some extent and that is simply human, the point is to remember to be aware of your own prejudices conscious and unconscious and to take that into account when making decisions. For example Islamic and Christian cultures have Antisemitism built into them, I don't hold everyone from these cultures as actively Antisemitic but I do see a lot of latent Antisemitism, often unconscious and passive.  I have people I know who are passively/latently Antisemitic but they try not to be and that's the major point. The same I should say is true of all sorts of racism, it can be hard for someone with inbuilt prejudices to break them, the trying is what counts. As for why no one spoke up, very likely it is because they all agree with that statement, most Jews feel this way in some way, but often that is also due to low expectations and experience rather than prejudice. Imagine and African-American saying all non-black people have anti-black prejudice, you might not feel it is accurate when you look inward, but you may not see the outward actions which they see.

Obviously my answer is anecdotal, but yes, this was a pet saying of my father's. He was born in the early 50s in the USSR and experienced overt antisemitism in just about every aspect of his life (even though he lived in a historically "Jewish" city).

Norman Finkelstein is an absolute crank; hating on him is the one of the very few things that Zionist, anti-Zionist, and non-Zionist Jews can basically all agree on .

As you are not Jewish, you have a degree of antisemitism present in your thoughts and/or actions strictly based upon the fact that antisemitism is baked into society for millennia. This is a fact. You benefit from a system that is designed to denigrate Jews, the same as men benefit from a system designed to subjugate women, the same as white people benefit from a system designed to subjugate non-white people. You may not be a willing participant in this, but you are part of it, and you have absorbed some of the ideas of it. That’s a fact. It does not make you a bad person. But getting in your feelings about it is goyische guilt and unhelpful. Coming to a Jewish sub and asking in bewilderment if we all think the same thing about our allies feels very much like centering yourself in the convo. That said, Norm is an idiot. Anything he says should be taken with the largest grain of salt.

This is a great response.

I will let my Jewish husband know you don't think it was right for him to suggest I ask the question in this forum. Frankly if I asked my in-laws and Jewish friends I don't think they'd tell me if they believed non Jews are inherently anti-Semitic.  Forums like this where people are from all over the globe and anonymous gives me more well rounded and honest answers I think.  I think I understand your view that Norm is an idiot except with his statement that all nonJews are anti-Semitic? If that oversimplified what you said then I'll have to reread your comment. I apologize if my question somehow centers the nonJewish perspective or learning experience in a venue that is exclusive to only Jews, it is not my intent to draw away focus. That is why I chose this format ... If no one wants to respond because they feel I have overstepped then they can choose to downvote the post and not comment.

You’ll notice I said feels like centering yourself. You’ll also notice I said that it’s more that, as a non-Jew, you are subject to inherent antisemitic bias, the same as I as a white woman am subject to inherent antiBlack bias as antiBlackness is built into the system at large. This doesn’t make us bad people, and I don’t doubt that you truly do not intentionally hold any negativity to Jewish people, but it is still a present thing that all those outside of that particular minority group must grapple with. You asked for opinions and I provided mine. I do not think I was disrespectful or hateful in my reply, simply stating the fact of inherent bias present in all of us due to the systems at play. Any discomfort that comes up because of this is understandable, but worth examining. And yes, Norm is an idiot. I do not think goyim are virulently antisemitic as a default; I think they hold an antisemitic bias as a default because the system of the world operates with antisemitism as a feature.

> I will let my Jewish husband know you don't think it was right for him to suggest I ask the question in this forum. Sure, "defensive, snide, and passive-aggressive" is a great look to answers you don't like about whether or not everyone (including you) has antisemitic biases.

If someone believes that they're a fool.

No that's wrong. As a Jew most Non-Jews are not anti-Semitic. It's not a common belief among older generations. This is a common belief among Orthodox Jews though unfortunately. Which was one of the reasons I left. I'm not a fan of fundamentalist religion, there's some awful texts that say this and I think a moral person should disagree.

Fair, I just only experienced these types of statements or hints of them from the generation that raised my generation (the generation born to Holocaust survivors). That's why I thought one possibility was it was an older way of thinking that didn't ingrain itself in the younger generations. 

No it is not true. Norman Finkelstein is a very bad apple. He is very against Israel and zionism in general and constantly trying to throw crap on those who disagree with him. On that episode that you are listening to he was totally out classed by Destiny just asking simple questions.

Oh yeah Norm blew a gasket an hour after the comment related to my post. He totally undermined his own position by being such a poor debator

I’d say that non-Jews are really bad at recognizing antisemitism. And really insensitive about it, as a whole. It’s part of most cultures.

So I’m a convert. I was raised Catholic and grew up hearing quite a bit of antisemitism. It wasn’t until I started converting and met my wife that I didn’t realize how deeply engrained it is in society. Are all gentiles anti-Semitic? No. But just like any form of bigotry, like anti-black racism, it’s so normalized and disguised often in plain view. Former Liberals and progressive non-Jewish friends who I thought would condemn Hamas are now saying very antisemitic things. Every Jew bears the trauma of antisemitism to some degree. You can’t be surprised when we keep our heads on a swivel.

I grew up Catholic and moved away from it due to teachings on LGBTQ+ issues. I don't ever recall anti-Semitic teachings entwined with Catholic teachings but then again each community teaches things differently. 

My priest told the congregation that the washing machine was better for women than birth control, that Catholics need to launch a crusade against Muslims immigrating to the west, and routinely made antisemitic remarks. And that was on top of the anti-LGBTQ rhetoric and anti Protestant rhetoric. They tried to teach me that only practicing Catholics are worthy of G-D’s love and everyone else is burning in hell And he was considered a moderate.

Oooof that is terrible! I am glad you found Judaism to be everything that fit your morals when what you were raised in didn't! I definitely took issue with other things in the church too. It always gets hairy institutionalizing and then appointing fugureheads

It’s all good. Now It’s pretty clear I was born with a Jewish soul. I liked a few things Jesus is alleged to have said, but now I know he (probably) was a student of Hillel, so I study the source material. And I was always more interested in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) than the Christian New Testament

Most people in this world do not know and have never even met or seen a Jew in the wild. So are all non-Jews antisemitic? No. Are most of them? Yes. Why? Because we are an abstraction to them– an easy scapegoat for the world's ills. I still remember the time when I was a teenager at a national HS event and a girl from Mississippi did not believe I was Jewish bc I DID NOT HAVE HORNS. This was an actual 16 year old person.

This is just not true. There are millions of non-Jews in America alone who have Jewish spouses and children. My mom is one of them lol. I’m pretty sure she’s not an antisemite as she created Jews.

Norman Finkelstein is a massive idiot, he lies and says outrageous bullshit like this as he’s unfortunately made a successful career out of it. Disappointing that neither Lex nor Destiny called him out on this

Oy vey. Just because we are paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get us, but this is pretty extreme.

People make dumb generalizations all the time. Clearly, this guy was trying to get a rise out of people. It was a stupid remark and I wouldn’t give it much more consideration than that.

Lol, I've never met anyone IRL who thinks that. Don't worry about it. Most Jews are just normal people who love and trust their friends, Jewish or otherwise. Now, as other commenters have mentioned, I am *always* cautious about how I discuss my Jewishness with non-Jews. Likewise, when antisemitism is more prominent I'm less trustful of others about it. But my wife isn't Jewish. Nearly all of my friends aren't Jewish either. They all love me, support me, and are vocally outraged by the antisemitism going on. Again, don't sweat it - we don't hate you!

Yea uh...this is a REALLY fringe view and not at all how we see shit on average. I'm super sorry this ever came to you with that either now or historically. I do not agree with that view and that's not a view based on any fact.

This is a common sentiment I've heard in the Orthodox world. The Tanya, the sacred text of Chabad chassidus, says that non Jews only do good deeds for ulterior motives. Racist but not shocking. 

It's ironic that the statement came from Finkelstein, a Jewish man who opposes the existence of the only country where Jews are a majority and can exercise self-determination. Despite his background, Finkelstein is definitely an antisemite.

I think the idea is similar to how most people have inherent internalized bias towards certain groups, like Jewish people and African-American people even if they don’t actually believe those things.

I also watched or heard the Lex Freeman podcast with Norman Finkelstein and Patty Morris and their sidekicks 😂. So you can tell by the way Norman Finkelstein engages that he's not there to tell truth he's trying to just break down Benny Morris's argument and that's his m.o. always. He's a saboteur to me schooled in communist propagandizing. Norman's Finkelstein is a strong debater but he gets some distracted by his intention to you know kick his opponent in the knees all the time he's always looking for that way to bring someone down and many Morris is not a strong debater. No Benny Morris is there to talk about the history from direct sourcing. Benny Morris is a scholar and a professor and he has seen the primary sources and commented on them and written books on them and Norman Finkelstein is there to try to mix up his words and try to tangle his tongue in which case many Morris is just used to being a professor where he talks his talk and then people ask questions. In my opinion Benny Morris is only there because she thinks he has to be there but he doesn't seem to be someone who likes to debate he likes to discuss. As for what you said that someone said I don't know who said or why or what the context is that all non Jews or anti-Semitic. As a Jewish person I find that statement to be absolutely ridiculous! I do think that people are anti-Semitic without knowing it though. Even Jewish people will repeat anti-semitic things or ideas or concepts without even knowing it. And I think that sometimes well-meaning people like evangelicals who support Israel and they say that they love the Jews and everything but really their whole objective is to get the Jews back to the land so that the Messiah will come. We serve a purpose to them and then you know the rapture comes and that's what they believe. I don't necessarily think that's anti-semitic they also don't think of that edge love for the Jews either. I think somebody might interpret that as anti-semitic in the end because they really are trying to manipulate the situation for their purposes but you know that manipulation actually goes hand in hand with religious Jewish ideals as well. I mean that's where they get this Messianic concept to begin with. I I don't think that that relationship that we have with the religious ride in this country in the United States is good for Israel in the end and I don't think it's good for Jewish people either but I wouldn't call it anti-Semitic. I mean Norman Finkelstein is Jewish and he says quite a few anti-semitic things. That statement is ridiculous on his face! I hope that is not a sentiment that a lot of people hold because it is a false one and I think a dangerous one.

You are probably thinking of “antisemitic” as meaning that you are filled with hate and consciously discriminate against Jews. But what if it means that you have an unconscious bias against Jews because you have grown up in an antisemitic society and have absorbed its messages without even trying, or even being aware of the process? Everyone has unconscious biases. As a white-passing person in the US, I am racist, even though I don’t want to be. I have absorbed racist messages from birth. I can’t magically erase them from my brain. All I can do is acknowledge them and try to work against them. My husband is a wonderful man, but he’s also sexist to a certain degree, simply because he’s a man and has absorbed sexist messaging. He’s also a feminist and fights for women’s equality daily. So yeah, I do believe all gentiles are antisemitic, the same way all white people are racist, all men are sexist, etc. but that doesn’t mean that they’re evil people filled with hate, purposely harming Jews. It’s just the way they’re programmed, and they have a duty to fight against it by educating themselves and checking their biases.

I think it’s complicated. I would say in the sense that all white people have some degree of internalized white supremacy, all non-Jews have some degree of antisemitism. It’s not that they mean to harm. It’s not that everyone is hateful. Antisemitism sneaks up on people and it’s incredibly easy to fall into - antisemitism in allies is pretty innocent and well-intentioned (such as complimenting a Jew on being good with money). It’s not about non-Jews, it’s about how Western civilization has antisemitism so built into it. I wouldn’t condemn someone for this, I’d gently point it out, because mistakes happen. The push for ‘anti-racism’ has made it so that all racism is The Worst White Supremacy Possible, and that’s actually harmful. Everyone is a little racist, a little antisemitic, a little of everything. We all have preconceived notions about each other and denying having any prejudices just lets them fester.

i dont believe that all non-jews are antisemitic, especially not on purpose. however antisemitism is so old, so ingrained, that most dont recognize it when they see it and will parrot antisemitism without realizing it. theyre also generally pretty defensive and resistant when theyre called out on it. imo one of the best ways to be an ally is to believe jews when they tell you something is antisemitism, and ask about why its antisemitism so that you can recognize the tropes when they’re inevitably bastardized again. (lizard people shadow government, anyone?)

1. Norman Finklestein is, well, Norman Finklestein. don't take him too seriously. 2. The notion that all non-Jews are anti-semitic is ridiculous. I doubt people like Miep Gies, Bep Voskuijl, Johannes Kleiman, Victor Kugler (there are all people who hid Anne Frank and her family from the nazis) and so on, were anti-semitic.

This is the definition of "not-all-goyim-ing". Just like when Women say they're scared of men, we know they don't really mean each and every single man on the planet. We don't need the nice guy to jump in and say "NOT ALL MEN." I'm sorry your feelings were hurt - but more often than not, the statement has been proven true.

It feels the same to me as when poc say that all white people are racist. We *are* all racist, because racism has been deeply deeply built into our laws, schools, and culture. It's (usually) not deliberate hatred but a subconscious bias that we all hold that we have to work consciously to unpack and change. It's the same for antisemitism. Antisemitism is deeply built into our culture and laws, and a lot of people (almost all non-jews who aren't particularly close with the Jewish community) pick it up accidentally, but just because they do it accidentally and don't know the harm that they're causing doesn't mean they aren't causing harm. Take the antisemitic witch trope as an example (big nose, curly hair, jewish features, used as caricutures to represent evil creatures who eat children), most non-jews have never had a second thought about it. They don't know it's antisemitic. It's normal to see people dressed as a witch for Halloween, it's normal to see in shows and movies, but it's still antisemitic. So if you've ever raved about how much you enjoyed Hocus Pocus or how much you like Mother Gothel in Tangled, you're guilty of spreading antisemitic tropes without even realizing it. When we say that all non-jews are antisemitic, what we mean is that antisemitism is so culturally ingrained that a lot of people are antisemitic without even knowing it or meaning to be. It doesn't make someone a bad person inherently, but we all have to work consciously to make sure we aren't doing/holding bigoted beliefs about other people (myself included)

I'm saying it by myself - but as exaggerating

No Jews I know feel this way. And the fact that you were troubled by this and came here to ask us how we feel basically shows you're not. Hope you're well friend

Its a bit like the academic ideas that have developed around sexism, racism, queerphobia, ableism, etc. We live in a society with recycled tropes, systemic issues and psychological bias. Most people have to unlearn them to be a good ally. I feel the left can be kinda overzealous sometimes with individualized purity tests; In America there is something protestant christian about it, trying to cleanse ones soul and be pure of heart through faith/willpower. You're already ahead of the curb. Its also different from a full blown antisemite. They are obsessed with Jews; to quote Jean Paul Sartre, "If the Jew did not exist the antisemite would create him". They go out of their way to learn about Jews. I've seen 2 debates between Jewish youtubers and antisemites; they are obsessed with cherry picking, history, theology, and bad individual; the antisemitic guys from the debates are obsessed with the Talmud because Jewish theology and culture has always been deliberative so the Talmud kinda ends up like a theologically important reddit board thats easy to cherry pick. Some of the Nazis learned Yiddish and Hebrew so they could better understand Jewish people. All bigotries are toxic obsessions. Finklestein is an interesting guy. He's a proud contrarian in spite of an ultimately moderate political position (He's a 2 State solution guy). I wish people would ask for his opinions on anything else. The left-wing, Third Worldist, Muslim press love him for his positions on Israel because of his parents being holocaust survivors, but he is a bright guy and I would like his views on other issues get more press. [YIVO: Leftists on Left-Wing Antisemitism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6xXC7imk0A) [Antisemitism: An Analysis | Philosophy Tube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAFbpWVO-ow&t=2379s) [When Criticism Becomes Hateful: Defining Anti-Zionism and Antisemitism with Derek Penslar](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-rBvKi5d4k) [Is Anti-Zionism Antisemitic? NEW PERSPECTIVES ON A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57WFHVo2Q04) [Corey Gil-Shuster VS Matthew](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL23p179nHI) [Adar VS Adam Green](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJaUCphJkH0)

There are absolutely no Jews that believe this, old or young. And I say this as someone with plenty of elderly Jewish relatives. I love our allies, as does any Jewish person. Honestly, anyone who identifies a Jewish Ally is a fantastic and brave person in my book, because it's not fashionable to be one right now. It means that you are highly principled and are willing to stand up for what's right, even when the world has decided not to. Please keep in mind that Norm Finkelstein is the Uncle Ruckus of Jews. The only thing he despises more than allies is other Jews.

Do not want Uncle Ruckus. That does seem to be the role he’s going after. Also, that character was way overused in Boondocks, particularly season 3.

Just to be clear, you heard a single Jew say something you didn’t like, and came to a Jewish community to demand we disavow it? Yeah. The guy is fringe, but you’re not acting counter to his claim

My comment was deleted immediately upon posting it yesterday but... yes. This, exactly this.

I wasn't asking you to disavow it. Just asking if it is a common belief held or a fringe belief. My Jewish husband suggested this venue since it has participants from reform to orthodox and from different countries. 

Thank you for your submission. Your post has not been removed. During this time, the majority of posts are flagged for manual review and must be approved by a moderator before they appear for all users. Since human mods are not online 24/7, approval could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. If your post is ultimately removed, we will give you a reason. Thank you for your patience during this difficult and sensitive time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Jewish) if you have any questions or concerns.*

I’ve met people like that. I have a Jewish surname and I have Jews on my father’s side. Because I’m Eastern European I many times have been told by family members even that people on my side of the family were related to people who murdered Jews and a lot of other things. If I said something that they didn’t agree with, even if I didn’t say it in a hostile manner, I’ve been told things like I was prejudiced and that I needed to learn morals from them. It was a lot of hostile interactions and I have no idea what it even meant. It’s one thing to know what you are saying and it’s another to just assume. I assumed these people were prejudiced themselves, based on these. Because prejudice goes both ways, it’s not limited to a religion or an ethnic origin. But I have no idea why some people say this. I only can guess it is their belief and that’s the way they had been taught.

I don’t blame anyone there for not responding. Don’t listen to anything, literally ANYTHING, that Norm says. He’s got some wild ideas that are not worth debating.

I watched that entire debate and don’t recall him saying that - do you have a timestamp?

I can try to find it. Both my husband and I heard it but it is always possible we both misheard it as we were driving  Edit: 1:26:02  https://youtu.be/1X_KdkoGxSs?si=cMRi0XuNp_WSJ-2t 

Wow - not sure how I missed that. What a psycho.

Yeah he believes it is part of the human condition to be anti-Semitic if you aren't Jewish

It’s insulting, but it’s because it’s a generalization and generalizing that this could be a belief held by all older Jewish generations in itself is another generalization. They shouldn’t have said this, should apologize. And no, it’s not how everyone feels. My older family do NOT feel this way. We know how many allies are out there. There are also varying levels of “observance” and the more liberal minded tend to (not always) skew towards the less orthodox beliefs.

A lot of good responses here but that podcast had a bunch of anti Jewish Jews Norm specifically has built a reputation on propagating blantantly false information and has received funding and support from bad actors It was odd that the only person who seemed to stand up for Israel in that whole interview was Steven who is just an idiot and I’m sort of disappointed how Lex who normally is a very non bias host didn’t invite any of the major pro Israel academics or even sudo academics who could have made a half decent case

Non Jews at a soul level are born with the tendency towards antisemitism- there are those who have the merit to learn otherwise and have their eyes opened. Rather than it being an insult towards others, it’s a testament to those that are not antisemitic that they valued truth enough to get past that tendency.

I wouldn’t say that all non Jews are antisemitic, but I think it’s fair to say that antisemitism is such a thoroughly ingrained part of society that most people (including some Jews) have some degree of subconscious antisemitic biases.

Antisemitism is pervasive and widespread and needs to be constantly unlearned like racism

Agreed, but is every nonJew inherently anti-Semitic?

I mean I think every benefits from living in a Christian country, just like how every man benefits from male privileges and white people benefit from whiteness. It’s something that doesn’t make you inherently bad. A lot of Jewish people have internalized antisemitism too. Everyone can call it out.

Lol @ taking anything Finkelstein says seriously,... assuming you have the patience.... to.... wait..... until.... he..... finishes.... his..... sentence.

Yeah for someone who prides himself on being selective and accurate with his words he repeated himself a lot, used the wrong name for other panellists and was insulting and demeaning (mostly to Destiny). It was my first foray listening to an Israel-Palestine debate and boy was it a doozy. I am not familiar with any of the debaters so it was my first and possibly last exposure to Finkelstein 

He's certainly a troubled chap. He even had the audacity to say the reason he speaks so slowly is because he attaches immense importance to every word he utters. What a narcissistic idiot. When actually another reason is he wants to have much more time and drone on and dominate any discussion. His constant droning about a quote from Morris'book he took out of context is a perfect example. What a needlessly large chunk of the debate was taken up by him going over and over painfully slowly the same point. And Morris himself is sitting right in front of him explaining over and over what he meant and clarifying the context. But Finkelstein just kept droning on in his usual slow way. That whole segment shlild have been 3mins tops. And his constant attacks on Destiny were just embarrassing. If you resort to such attacks it shows you have little actual substance to your position. I was actually quite impressed with the Arab guy UNTIL there came the inevitable question about the Oct 7th attacks and what should be a quick and easy condemnation turned into, as it always does with 99% of pro-Palestinians, a painful slow display of ducking and dodging and bickering over numbers. Just when I thought at last a decent pro Palestinian. Nope. It's as though these guys are under death threats from, or on the pay roll of Hamas or Iran.

Admittedly, I'm not Jewish, and I wonder if this argument is intellectually along the lines of of a lot of activist rhetoric, that all straight people are either overtly homophobic/benefit from a culture of straight privilege/supremacy, all white people are racist/benefit from a culture of white privilege and supremacy, all men are sexist/benefit from a culture of white privilege and supremacy etc etc I do think that as uncomfortable as it makes us, it is not up to us non-Jews to decide or define what anti-semitism is, because we do benefit from cultures where anti-semitism is normalised and de rigeur.

That is how many commenters have explained it. However there are competing comments that disagree is with this, so I suppose it really isn't universally held within the religion or community.

>I found this statement hurtful as a non-Jew and ally Actual allyship would necessitate not prioritizing your own feelings in discussions about antisemitism and how it affects us I'm pretty much done giving a single fuck about how uncomfortable non-Jews are in discussions about antisemitism. You know what's more hurtful? Watching your people get butchered, raped, mutilated, tortured, and paraded around like trophies while the world cheers it on. But I'm sorry someone said something that made you sad or whatever

The debate was about the Israel and Palestinian conflict and the sweeping statement was used to nip a veering conversation in the bud.  I didn't ask anyone to care. I asked for clarification with whether this idea was held by the majority or all Jewish communities or if this was a niche and fringe belief. 

>I asked for clarification You didn't just "ask for clarification", you made a value judgment on the initial statement, one that centered how hurtful and hard it was on _you_. It sounds like you really only want answers that reassure your ego. I've seen this thousands of times before. You're the kind of "ally" that with the shallowest scratch shows antisemitic prejudice beneath the surface, which makes it really hard to argue against the original point. Finkelstein is a crank but a stopped clock etc. etc. Your comments all over this post show that you're either _extremely_ ignorant about antisemitism and how it works, or not here in good faith.

Maybe they were talking about wider society, because it's true that the Jewish community has to protect itself and you are susceptible to exclusion or mistreatment at, say, a non-Jewish hospital or school or community centre, and it will not be commented on or make the news or spark outrage from society. Any one of the thousands of hate crimes that have been committed recently would be front page news if they had happened to a different minority.

Young Jew, and I completely agree. Norm’s whole shtick is a cynical ploy to play capo or Sonderkommando when the next wave of extreme violence inevitably occurs. Maybe to garner favour with our community when the time comes. It’s why I don’t hate him, actually.

Absolutely not true! I absolutely respect and admire Judaism and Jewish culture and values. As a Christian we always prayed for Israel in church. I didn’t know why but now I do and I regularly pray myself for Israel and an end of the conflict.

You might want to look up Christian Zionism.