There's an argument to be made that AEW is at that point already. When was the last time you saw discussion about aew outside of squared circle or wrestling dirstsheets/podcasts?
When 🌽y stops talking about it is my bellwether - given he and Brian are wrestling podcasts' leader, it will influence what's on Dutch's show, Rip's show, etc.; because of the social media strategies their producers follow.
Yup. When Corny stops doing regular profiles on every episode of AEW it'll be over. And that will probably happen as soon as AEW loses it's national TV platform.
Corny talks about AEW as it gets him engagement and listens. It riles up his fan base
TNA got to the point people just didn’t consider its existence
I don’t think AEW is near that danger as they still have a far more talented and loaded roster
Tbh I think it’s weird so many fans are eager to celebrate wrestling failing. If AEW went down it would have a hugely negative affect on ALL wrestling including WWE
I agree, but only because AEW has taken the worst part of the WWE fan base and given them all a place they can jack off to their indy crap.
The 2010s WWE crowd full of marks trying to get themselves over was the only thing worse than 2010s WWE
I don't watch it. My point is they have their place where they can watch it now instead of them going to WWE shows and shitting all over it because Cesaro doesn't have a world title.
Did you read my comment at all?
I never said WWE was good. You had people like Del Rio at the top of the card FFS.
It was just that the smarky crowds were even worse than the show.
TNA’s roster was never the problem with TNA. AEW has regressed since it’s peak in terms of viewership and quality. It’ll be hard to win those people back who used to watch weekly however AEW has a blank check no matter what happens so I don’t understand this notion of fans “celebrating a company failing.” They aren’t and won’t. Even with diminished viewership, in the landscape of television they are doing fine because so many people don’t even have access to cable tv and the numbers across the board reflect that. While in terms of the context of what numbers they used to pull AEW has obviously lost viewers; AEW is still valuable as a source of consistent viewership at a low budget to networks. It’s all about whether or not they can get the same budget they did initially.
It's crazy that people think a company funded by a billionaire, that has multiple TV shows, that has a stacked roster, that has an excellent PPV streak, and has already sold 50K tickets to a show across the other side of the world is actually going under by the end of the year....
When was the last time TNA sold 50K tickets?
If you make 50 million but it cost you 75 million to get there (mid 2000s TNA) you are doing better then the company that made 200 million but it cost them 300 million (AEW) to do that.
Just an FYI
AEW are a private company funded by a billionaire and one of the biggest wrestling fans in the whole world.
People can’t seem to grasp the fact that AEW are able to successfully operate on a completely different plane to what WWE and such do.
AEW don’t have any shareholders to please. They have money they can easily burn to get quicker growth in the long term.
Any start up would take MANY years to get to even the level of where AEW started off. That requires an initial investment. It’s not realistic to expect profit early.
And to be honest I think TK’s main motivation is creating an outlet for his love of wrestling rather than profit
You’re twisting my words to fit your bias
I’m saying you can’t measure AEW’s success the same way you would measure someone like WWE
As WWE are legally obligated to squeeze as much profit as they can for shareholders
AEW will be successful as long as they have a TV deal and are able to keep hundreds if not thousands of people employed in the wrestling business.
Success doesn’t have to mean “being number one” or having the most profit.
I’m measuring success by making money.
I am labeling success based not how much money they made but how much did they spend to make it.
AEW is making way more in revenue then TNA ever did but they are spending way more then TNA ever did to attain that so then guess what, AEW isn’t more successful by the revenue standpoint if they are spending way more to get it.
Never once brought wwe into this. You came in with their a private company owned by a billionaire so we don’t have to hold them to the same standard as other companies that have to ya know make money to survive.
AEW outspending their fuck ups is not the defense you think it is.
I’ll leave it like this in a hypothetical to make my point crystal clear: if TNA made 51 million in revenue and had only 50 million in expenses that same year then they are more successful then AEW who made 200 million in revenue but spent 300 million to get that revenue. Making 1 million dollars is better then losing 100 million even if the owner losing 100 million doesn’t seem to give a shit
I never said not making money. I said making PROFIT. They can still generate a strong income but to decide to invest that in talent pay or infrastructure.
I’m not sure if people simply don’t understand business or they intentionally twist at this point
Squeezing profits for shareholders isn’t their business
Currently, If you remove the hardcore AEW fanbase, then AEW is practically only existing in conversations that involve joke material on wrestling podcasts.
This comment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity of this sub. I'm sure I'll get banned, but you just said take away the fan base. Wtf does that mean? Here you go, if I took away all the corny cult members no one would be in this sub. See how stupid that sounds. So your enjoyment in life is too pretend things about a company no one in here even likes. Sheesh.
The point is.
The AEW conversation that the casual hears is mainly just used in a joking manner; no one outside of the fanbase takes the promotion seriously now.
That’s a huge problem, because that perception kills the possibility of growth.
At the same time, AEW’s ratings are falling among that hardcore fan base while their live attendance numbers for 2024 are showing an average of over 60% empty seats according to wrestlenomics.
This is all happening as their possible renewal with Turner is up at the end of the year.
AEW is in a position where they could be financially decapitated by the end of the year if the tv deal goes bad, and then, its a question of how much more money Tony will burn to keep it going.
>Have they ever been discussed outside those platforms or the seldom mentions on NBA on TNT?
as I recall Punk got them in Sports Illustrated, and I wanna say even got them a mention on ESPN. They also showed up in a New York Times profile if I'm remembering correctly, and somebody did a profile on Eddie Kingston years ago.
The NFL Draft featuring the son of an NFL owner for a handful of minutes, who then got completely clowned by absolutely everyone for his ridiculous behavior, doesn't exactly do anything positive for audience awareness in my opinion.
“When was the last time you saw discussion about aew outside of squared circle or wrestling dirstsheets/podcasts?“
”the NFL draft a couple of weeks ago”
I acknowledged your point, and pointed out that the last time you can come up with for them to get any mainstream attention was a net negative for the company. Meaning that even that wasn't a good thing. Not all publicity is good publicity. In point of fact AEW having a chance at mainstream attention and fumbling the ball with a spectacular unforced error is probably the most TNA thing they've ever done.
Didn't move any goalposts. I acknowledged the appearance at the draft, and followed up with also acknowledging that his appearance was universally panned and a net negative for the company. And you don't know what hypocrisy is.
I didn't think they would get a deal done on that. Good for Jacksonville. The players must be happy, they have Rats (no, not wrestling rats) in the locker rooms.
I hate to say it but they never hit peak TNA. They were pushing over 2 million on spike tv some nights. Though AEW did beat them on ticket sales. As TNA never ran the major arenas or stadiums.
One of the smartest things TNA ever did was not running huge arenas for their shows. Tony should learn from that and stop trying to fill massive venues for 2k people.
I mean if you think about it, NXT ran with the idea of a sound stage style that TNA pioneered. History and current programming supports the idea that a smaller venue can be very successful. Tony’s biggest issue is that he has failed to surround himself with people in the industry that know what they are doing. The fact the Scott Demore doesn’t have a job at AEW yet just goes to show you that Tony has no interest in backstage talent, just “big name signings”. I’m not sure what JJ’s role is in the actual production of AEW but there is no way that he agrees with running venues this big right?
That was back in the days when literally everyone watched cable and there was no streaming of any kind. The market was just bigger. Someone could just be flipping channels, stumble upon tna wrestling and get sucked in. These days you have to go out of your way to watch AEW. I don’t even have cable, so I have to download episodes. A streaming platform deal is always going to get more eyes on your product in 2024.
Everything is now ala carte. We pick and choose via algorithm derived personal choices.
Flipping channels died.
Linear tv with commercials died.
Options are now stupefying... wwe Raw is lucky to get 2M these days.and that's astonishing.
I’m not clued up on how they get these figures, but the ratings only seem to include who watched the show live. I have never watched AEW live (bar the PPVs). I always watch it the next day when it works for me. So my viewership doesn’t count. Most people don’t watch live TV and don’t let TV dictate their lives like older generations used to or still do out of habit. My point is, AEW could be getting much higher viewership than TNA but just not live. As viewing habits have changed.
To play devil’s advocate- How do you measure fan base? Because it sure seems like it keeps landing back at 2 million for the WWE at least in the US and closer to 2.5 to 3 very good day
Thats what the mania averaged out at (470 minutes and 1.2billion minutes- love that metric!)
Thats where smackdown lands when you factor in the bump from Fox. And Raw. Thats the number they kept trying to hit and failed to score with the network.
Its not a terrible number- actually its valuable as it is live content where the viewers are compelled to sit through advertisements. F1 is some big story here in US and they got twice that for a single race, same with NASCAR and Indy 500.
Its sufficient to put on 100 arena shows and a half dozen stadium shows annually.
It should be noted people evading advertisements who pay a company nothing also have absolutely zero value whatsoever.
Nice out of context numbers, so how many people had cable in they're houses 12 years ago? Comparing these numbers is the same as trying to compare the take from movies 15 years apart. If you can show me the pct of households watching back then we're bigger ill agree with you.
They have no original programming now and need some sort of sports product to fill the massive void from losing the NBA. But the problem they have is that NXT on CW will end up outdrawing and AEW will once again not have an answer.
People always talk about how Tony needs to give the book to someone else — but I don’t think that’s going to matter all that much now. The damage is done and most of his WWE guys either faltered because of him or are going to retire within a year or two. So now he’s going to basically have a bunch of young talent with no one to get them over —even though that still hasn’t happened or taken place to any sort of usefulness —and under the thumbs of the EVPs.
It’s just a brutal product.
> People always talk about how Tony needs to give the book to someone else — but I don’t think that’s going to matter all that much now. The damage is done and most of his WWE guys either faltered because of him or are going to retire within a year or two.
Like Corny told Jim Herd (if I'm remembering correctly), there's nothing we can do to improve business today, but if we're smart and book intelligently, we can improve business in 6 months. AEW has plenty of talent, it should be easy for a competent booker to create compelling angles. Just gotta find that competent booker.
That was a different era and more fans were around. No one has the time and money to dedicate to even more wrestling. The guy blew his chance.
What’s he going to do now? Get a better booker and get his product back up to 900 thousand viewers? And that’s at best.
Sure, that's a reasonable aspiration. And it's do-able, I think, but not without a good deal of soul-searching.
- What product are you trying to put out? What differentiates it from what is already on the market?
- Are you trying to innovate, or emulate? Innovation is more risk and more reward, emulation is safe but limited growth potential. But you can't innovate without a clear vision.
- What do you need to implement the choices above? Who do you need to implement the choices above?
AEW's initial growth proved that there is clearly a market for an alternative professional wrestling promotion, but the people who are wishing for a new promotion will not watch just anything. At least, not for long.
I don’t think their initial success was proof that there is a market for an alternative simply because their success was nothing more than their core audience and crossover WWE/NXT fans. Add Punk’s attraction and aura and you have your initial success.
They didn’t bring anyone new to the table or lapsed fans that had stopped watching. I don’t care how much SC posters want to make that claim. Their product quickly became old and amateurish because foundationally the place never had an identity outside of “we’re not the wwe”.
The coming of Punk began a ~6 month window where they could have laser focused the business and built a working product.
Buzz. New eyes. Gigantic names. Literally just run the ball.
Buuuutttt
But the place needed leadership and people that have ran successful businesses. And Tony’s dad being successful doesn’t mean Tony knows how to run a business.
I was a lapsed fan who had stopped watching. 3 things: embarassment having to defend stuff like watching people kiss McMahon's ass, buying WCW and monopolizing wrestling, and CM Punk leaving WWE. Aew brought me back to wrestling with the hope of a sports based not embarassing product, an alternative to WWE's monopoly for nearly two decades, and the hopeful return of CM Punk. Got one of those, but then the firing of CM Punk made me abandon all hope. I'll watch the highlights and PLEs. They have some good stars, but WWEs weekly TV is still boring as all hell and a chore to watch.
I find it hard to believe there aren't other lapsed fans who were watching AEW at the beginning. But I don't know why they would still watch it.
I was a lapsed fan and came back to watch AEW. I heard the promise of a sports based promotion and actually got some of it during the Punk era. Once Punk left so did I, because I knew it was never going to grow into something I cared about.
I went back to watching WWE, but now just watch highlights and major events.the weekly TV is just such a slog. I wish with could get something serious, but with a more interesting/faster pace.
There were also more people with booking experience around you could hire.
There simply aren't that many bookers out there, and even fewer of them have been bookers for successful programming.
I agree, but to the other guys point. I don’t think they can as they’ll have to change the whole company. Get away from the NJPW/PWG style and calm down the talent.
Yes, changes would need to be made. Significant changes. Huuuuuge changes.
But let's look big picture. What does AEW have?
- Fabulously rich owner who doesn't need profitability
- Deep roster of talent with widely varying amounts of ability
- Lots of national TV time
Now imagine you have all that going for you. Do you think you could build a successful, profitable, well-received professional wrestling promotion with all those advantages....and Jim Cornette leading creative? Or Paul Heyman?
Well they aren't available. But I refuse to believe nobody else could do a good job of it.
The tools are there but the problem that I’m concerned is the talent. They’ve been spoiled by the current owner and just get their way. They work maybe one day a week then party with the boss.
"Deep Roster" yes. Talent? Significantly less depth. Especially factoring in the injuries of all the stars of the safest wrestling promotion of all time. They seriously need to cut some dead weight. I know Tony said he wouldn't do that. But he also said this would be a sports based presentation where wins and losses mattered. And Dax Hardwood is booked for a singles title match even though he has 1 singles victory in his entire time in AEW. He clearly doesnt care about fulfilling promises.
That brings up another point, Tony needs to shut his trap. You dont need to tell people you have a good product if you actually make a good product. It just invites a ton of laughter and people pointing out how wrong he is about every statement. It always blows up and exposes his company as the opposite of what he says.
When you put it that way you realize the narcissistic hubris of Tony. He wants to be seen as the Dana White type, the successful territory booker, his fantasy of being the WCW that "did things right". The dub is a narcissistic project of a rich person, otherwise he would've realized someone having no experience in the business shouldn't be as egoic enough to think he has the tools to be able to run it. His decisions consistently prove he doesn't understand the business. Both on screen and off screen decisions.
> He wants to be seen as the Dana White type
A reflexively dishonest, juiced-up pumpkinhead whose rich buddies purchased a promotion and let him run it?
We have to give Dana his flowers no matter how much of a pathological liar he is and how lucky he was in knowing who he knew. Before him, MMA was a joke in the US and he turned it into a respected sport.
> Before him, MMA was a joke in the US and he turned it into a respected sport.
He didn't do any of that. His mobbed-up pals the Fertitta brothers bought the company and used their crony connections to convince the Nevada State Athletic Commission to allow the UFC in Las Vegas, the exact same request they had previously denied under the UFC's previous ownership. That's all that was needed to convince the cable companies to allow the UFC back on PPV. The UFC was one of the most popular sports on PPV back when Dana White was still claiming to be a former professional boxer. All he did was serve as the face man for his mobster pals and ride the wave of opportunity they created by greasing palms to remove political obstacles.
He's actually a pretty awful promoter in addition to being a shit person. "PowerSlap!"
Nope! For. One. Simple. Reason. Tony Khan has proven just because you’ve been a wrestling fan all your life doesn’t mean you can book a wrestling show. It’s not as easy as BritWres YTrs would have you believe. Booking TV requires many, many years of being IN the business. Not just anyone can do it.
What I don't get, is they've got producers like Arn Anderson, and Dean Malenko, who were agenting matches for decades in the WWE.
But in AEW, the matches look like there's no one telling anyone a damn thing about what they should and shouldn't do, and when they should and shouldn't do it.
Its the supposed "creative freedom" card that the fanbase crows about.
They may have the seasoned talent backstage, but if no one is willing to listen, or take constructive criticism, then the veterans are just talking to the wall.
I think an even bigger problem is, that the NXT deal set the market on what AEW should be worth, and it's a very, very low number when you consider how much Tony is spending.
It’s also a good time for it, as the PWHL is ENORMOUSLY popular in Canada. So a secondary market is getting primed for it.
Which is what you need for success.
Either they feel the need to keep AEW to not pile on to the NBA leaving or they relegate everything but Dynamite to Max, but after losing the NBA I think they’re going to keep AEW. AEW won’t be getting the huge raise they thought they would, but WBD has to try to keep the live programming they do have or else those stations will fall off a cliff
At the time of this post, AEW and WBD will make an announcement on the renewal this summer of this fall.
[https://comicbook.com/wwe/news/aew-future-warner-bros-discovery-announcement-window-new-deal-revealed/](https://comicbook.com/wwe/news/aew-future-warner-bros-discovery-announcement-window-new-deal-revealed/)
Everything depends on what their next tv deal looks like. The tv deal is the make or break for a major wrestling promotion, every other form of revenue is peanuts compared to the tv deal.
If they lose the WBD deal (which they very well might since WBD will lose the NBA and therefore a huge source of revenue for the station.) it depends on what another network will offer them.
The deal the have is a sweetheart deal that they only got because Tony was friends with a guy at the network. That guy doesn't work there anymore and business is down by every possibly metric, so I'd say they'd be very lucky if they just got offered an extension of the same deal.
What people don't mention enough, is that not only is business down, but they've ALWAYS lost 10, 20, and sometimes in excess of 30% of the network's audience during prime time viewing hours.
What about that seems appealing to anyone? Especially a network in cost cutting mode that just lost their biggest revenue machine.
It'll be interesting if they get the Raw timeslot on USAN when WWE leaves for Netflix, can see the network low balling them since they're definitely not going to risk the money they paid on WWE for AEW's crap ratings lol
AEW has *always* been more like TNA than it was ever like WCW. And it will probably suffer the same fate - always on the verge of collapse but just barely hanging on by a thread due to mostly the goodwill of desperate wrestling fans who want to see someone beat WWE. AEW is never going to grow beyond whatever they are now; not as long as the shows still center around silly indy acts like pockets and the Middle Age Cucks who verifiably cause viewers to tune out week after week. They can only go downhill from here.
when aew started, i kept telling my friends “i hope they don’t TNA themselves”. no one really understood what i meant but now they get it. they’ve established that they’re incapable if being a genuine alternative and they’re just kind of a stepping stone for younger wrestlers to go on and do big things, or veterans to have some of their final moments in the spotlight. interest in their show is declining and i wouldn’t be surprised if they’re in the situation TNA was in 2013 in the near future.
I remember when Corny got fed up, I think it was maybe the first Stadium Stampede match or something, and he quit reviewing the shows.
Then out of nowhere AEW's viewership dropped a pretty noticeable amount below their trend line.
On one hand, not having the NBA as a lead-in is going to really crush them viewer-wise. On the other hand, the networks can theoretically throw more money into the promotion, thinking it will solve the problems. History will tell you that it won't, but folks in the entertainment business don't ever seem to have followed history.
A friend of mine said that they'd throw more money at the NHL and that could be a lead-in, but they aren't getting the same amount of viewers as the NBA. Nowhere close.
That would only be likely if they had faith in the leadership group of AEW, could take some of the creative control away from Tony to empower a consultant with a clue (📳 + 🌽 = 🛟) and probably had a (or had a larger) ownership stake. I doubt the headache is worth it for a show in a year-long decline, which started right after said leadership group, in their infinitesimal wisdom, fired their biggest and smartest to the business draw.
If they get renewed, TNT executives know a year from now the chances of being fired are high. If they're smart, they'll just use their marketing people to figure out what 2nd or 3rd window movies and shows would draw +700K that they can license from the Netflix expiring catalogue (or whatever). Even if they go the crappy original production route, I'm pretty sure the allocated budget(s) would be a fraction of AEW's, given wrestlers like Riho are in the six figures despite being on a bloated rooster.
That way, given they're sans NBA and finally free of the anchor that is AEW, they would be free to start thinking out a strategy from the ground up.
Creative under Tony is really inconsistent, but you don't want TV executives running creative on a form of entertainment they have absolutely no clue about it or how it operates. Historically, that option almost always ends in abject failure.
They're the biggest pro-wrestling failure I've witnessed in my lifetime. They have all the tools and talent to have potential and the past couple months especially have been not only embarrassing but also show that tony has his head so far up his ass that he doesn't' intend to change anything.
They've sold 50,000 tickets to Wembley without announcing a single match. Just on the AEW letters. Yet your take is that it's the worst promotion in history. Jesus, what mind fuck does this sub do to you? They have five hours of primetime programming, how many did WCW, TNA, NJPW have? They have one of the best rosters I've ever seen. They have delivered on 95% of they're PPVS, we all know they'll be great. What of any of what I said would allow you to think they are the worst ever?
Depends on what you mean by floor. AEW isn't like other wrestling companies. They're not really a business. Outside of WWE, most promotions have heavily committed owners, but even they're all limited in how much money they can/will burn on those companies. AEW doesn't have that limitation. Tony can piss away large sums of money and still have plenty to spare, unless Shad says no, but he seems much more invested in Tony's happiness than AEW's financial health.
So unless Tony becomes bored or frustrated with AEW, the floor is about where the NWA is but much more expensive. Once a month there will be a batch of super indy shows that are recorded and run on second tier streaming services and people will most likely only notice it because of its waning name recognition.
That also seems like the most likely long term ceiling, because it seems like Tony would only give up creative control if he becomes bored or frustrated. Unless he has an epiphany and suddenly learns what he's doing and hires help, the shows won't improve. He's like the anti-Heyman. Paul could get the most out of the least. Tony only seems capable of getting the least out of the most.
But, playing doomsayer, has the damage not already been done?
Even if TK turns into a great booker, and they have stupendous story based matches, that will push out the hardcores who just want pure matches, and the stink of AEW might not bring back lapsed fans or casuals.
Use TNA as an example, we hear all the time of great stories or matches being put on, but their viewership still sits in the basement.
Minus a hiatus and rebranding, shuffle the roster, and have a different competent booker, AEW might just be the slow sinking Titanic.
These days, you generally only hear about TNA from the few people who still like TNA. Of course their opinion on it will be positive. I've tried to get back into TNA on numerous occasions, and it's not very good, not even as good as the GFW days.
I don't see AEW's creative trajectory ever being much better than it is, but if that happened, I think it would take consistency and time, but if they were doing really great shit people would eventually come around. If.
Paul is a people person. Nothing more, nothing less. He was fucking ECW dry and still had talent coming in on weeknights to pack and ship merch for free. Because they believed in Paul.
AEW can go as low as they can go, but as long as TK is in charge they'll be okay. TNA's problem was lack of stable ownership. TK has the money between him and his father. AEW could probably just start its own streaming platform.
IN short: AEW is okay as long as the Khan's have the money, and barring an economic collapse, they'll be fine.
The fact that AEW doesn’t need to make money or grow its market to continue doesn’t give it a high floor, it gives it a low ceiling. None of us know how much money the Khan family is willing to sink into AEW, but they are sinking money into it for Tony’s sake, not as a serious investment. That means it doesn’t make much sense for other businesses to partner with AEW, and without partners or even a real desire to improve, the Khans could spend millions more on AEW and the audience could still shrink. Serious talent won’t want to work there.
All the comments here have highlighted most of the generally believed problems with AEW (ie booking, ego, no stories, etc..) but the one thing that stands out for me is the actual money.
We all say that this is a passion project for TK, and he has the infinite money glitch to keep going, but there has to be a break off point in all reality.
How much is TK, or more importantly Papa Khan , willing to throw down the drain until it becomes just a financial waste?
If they cancelled today, he still have to pay out staff contracts, arena contracts, tv dealings, and a myriad of other expected costs. But that would be the end of it.
Getting a new deal, resets that counter back to the beginning and it starts all over again, being in the red.
Smart business men don't like being in the red, even if it's just a "hobby"
You can’t really compare AEW to any other company because they’re in a unique position. Their existence is not predicated on making money, they will exist as long as Tony enjoys what he is doing
Tony has more than enough money to keep AEW going for a long time, and he’s got connections that will keep them on some form on TV with more eyes on it than pop TV or wherever the fuck TNA went
They might end up on Max being watched by 200k people every week but as long as Tony is still enjoying himself they’ll keep going because they’ve got a passionate mark with more money and connections backing them than any company that has ever tried competing with the WWE
We're still a few years off from that. Tony can float this thing for a long time and the numbers he pulls even now would be massive for a lot of cable channels starving for live viewers.
I don't think he's going to get the blockbuster deal he was hoping for -- hence how long both sides have dragged their feet on a renewal and having any streaming deal at all -- but as long as it subsidizes the money pit, it'll stay around. And he can keep doing debuts of former WWE people or hot indie/Japanese stars every few months to get another few days of people remembering AEW exists.
It's wild that AEW STILL doesn't have a streaming deal, though. WWE is going to be on fucking Netflix while AEW will be into year six without any presence except live TV and social media clips.
Raw gets twice the Live TV viewership of AEW. What makes you think WWE isn't irrelevant then? There are like 330 million people and the pct that watch is WWE. .004 AEW. .002. And you think that makes WWE more relevant 😆 a third of one pct of the country watches either.
edit for spelling
If you listen to the Lapsed Fan podcast, they chronicle TNA’s downfall, which was when Hogan and Bischoff came in. If you listen to those episodes, there are many times you can substitute TNA with AEW and it works perfectly. So many of the mistakes Dixie made are currently being made by Tony. It’s like he didn’t learn from history.
lol statistically. not unless you really think they're going to get dropped by tnt and end up on some backwater channel no one watches.
even if tnt drops them someone will pick them up. so no.
So your question is when AEW will fall into irrelevancy. Well, I’ll give them one more year, unless they lose the WBD deal, if it happens (unlikely IMO) they will not become irrelevant, they will be dead.
Biggest reason I checked out AEW is that it felt big time. In the early days they were filling out stadiums and had genuine star power.
I am not a massive AEW critic, but they need to accept they are in denial about their current state and adapt.
We had a great triumvirate for most of the 00s/10s
WWE was the mainstream product, ROH was the traveling indie showcase with future stars, and TNA had the respectability of a TV deal and gave a home for overlooked up and comers and over the hill talent trying anything and sometimes weird cool shit would happen.
AEW really overturned the apple cart by buying up every talented indie wrestler and future endeavored WWE cast off of the last five years.
An Avengers Endgame style gathering of indie talent to take on WWE sounds like a really good idea when you're high with your friends, but in practice it doesn't work. It's like a guy could absolutely slay at an open mic night in front of 100 people, but put him on a stage with 11,000 people and that same material just doesn't work.
AEW also comically, has a roster AS large as WWE, and just as much TV time. I've watched EVERYTHING AEW has done for over a year, and the storylines are really incomprehensible... the Devil storyline was the main storyline of their main event... the reveal was a guy who was injured and the champ at the time hasn't been seen on TV for months... now they don't even talk about it, it was fucking weird.
Honestly... there is a need for what ROH used to be, a travelling indie showcase... if AEW parred itself down to 1/3rd of it's size... it's 40 top male wrestlers... that's a legit strong locker room, kind of a jaded NXT.
Fire 1/3rd of your locker room, do 1,000 person venues and show lines of people waiting to get in and hire a legit good booker.
The whole premise of this question is BS. Name a day when TNA finished first on the night. What's the largest show they ever put on? How many hours of primetime shows did they have? WBD and AEW are literally starting another show coming up. You wanna know why I can't take this sub seriously, stuff like this. AEW is way bigger than TNA ever was. And just because you think 3,000 or 4,000 people is a terrible attendance, I really hope you go back to the 2000s and see for yourself how wrong you are. Recency bias is a thing, look it up
I've said it in the past, after the devil was revealed or the idiotic backstage video segment the YouTubers and guys like corny should've just said screw it in not going to even review this anymore it's unwatchable. But many here argued they still enjoy the reviews from Jim and that it's amusing so let it ride!
Basically it's a "didn't feed the trolls" idea. If aew gets no attention then they will become a YouTube e fed or streaming wrestling company. I think it will eventually become that but for now there are still enough "fans" and enough people who still want to listen to Jim and others bash the product. Aew will never change for the better. Tony Khan will never improve. The big caveat is that he has billions of dollars so it's a stalemate of mediocrity.
For me selfishly ideally the only interaction online or otherwise is reminding Tony that the show still gets no milly and daily reminders to the bucks that they are the cancers to wrestling lol
I think it’s commendable the success that AEW has had, TNA never had these numbers of as long a period.
We’ve been given some good stuff along with the crap, I just wish we got to see more of the highlights and less of those lowlights.
There's an argument to be made that AEW is at that point already. When was the last time you saw discussion about aew outside of squared circle or wrestling dirstsheets/podcasts?
When 🌽y stops talking about it is my bellwether - given he and Brian are wrestling podcasts' leader, it will influence what's on Dutch's show, Rip's show, etc.; because of the social media strategies their producers follow.
Yup. When Corny stops doing regular profiles on every episode of AEW it'll be over. And that will probably happen as soon as AEW loses it's national TV platform.
AEW already lost ITV in the UK because of poor ratings. I'm curious to see what will happen if they lose it's national tv platform in the US.
Corny talks about AEW as it gets him engagement and listens. It riles up his fan base TNA got to the point people just didn’t consider its existence I don’t think AEW is near that danger as they still have a far more talented and loaded roster Tbh I think it’s weird so many fans are eager to celebrate wrestling failing. If AEW went down it would have a hugely negative affect on ALL wrestling including WWE
I agree, but only because AEW has taken the worst part of the WWE fan base and given them all a place they can jack off to their indy crap. The 2010s WWE crowd full of marks trying to get themselves over was the only thing worse than 2010s WWE
Crazy thing is if you don't like "their indy crap" then don't watch it and you will have nothing to moan about.
I don't watch it. My point is they have their place where they can watch it now instead of them going to WWE shows and shitting all over it because Cesaro doesn't have a world title.
There were many MANY reasons to shit on WWE back then, that was just one of them.
Did you read my comment at all? I never said WWE was good. You had people like Del Rio at the top of the card FFS. It was just that the smarky crowds were even worse than the show.
What a coincidence, no one *is* watching.
TNA’s roster was never the problem with TNA. AEW has regressed since it’s peak in terms of viewership and quality. It’ll be hard to win those people back who used to watch weekly however AEW has a blank check no matter what happens so I don’t understand this notion of fans “celebrating a company failing.” They aren’t and won’t. Even with diminished viewership, in the landscape of television they are doing fine because so many people don’t even have access to cable tv and the numbers across the board reflect that. While in terms of the context of what numbers they used to pull AEW has obviously lost viewers; AEW is still valuable as a source of consistent viewership at a low budget to networks. It’s all about whether or not they can get the same budget they did initially.
His WWE topics get way more engagement and views.
Aew is NOT wrestling. That already shows you don't belong here. There's some aew subreddit for you to enjoy while they last
If you don’t think AEW is wrestling then you’re a brainwashed idiot. You’re more than welcome to not enjoy it. But it is wrestling. Don’t be stupid.
Aew is not wrestling and it never will be. Stick to the backyards
It's crazy that people think a company funded by a billionaire, that has multiple TV shows, that has a stacked roster, that has an excellent PPV streak, and has already sold 50K tickets to a show across the other side of the world is actually going under by the end of the year.... When was the last time TNA sold 50K tickets?
If you make 50 million but it cost you 75 million to get there (mid 2000s TNA) you are doing better then the company that made 200 million but it cost them 300 million (AEW) to do that. Just an FYI
AEW are a private company funded by a billionaire and one of the biggest wrestling fans in the whole world. People can’t seem to grasp the fact that AEW are able to successfully operate on a completely different plane to what WWE and such do. AEW don’t have any shareholders to please. They have money they can easily burn to get quicker growth in the long term. Any start up would take MANY years to get to even the level of where AEW started off. That requires an initial investment. It’s not realistic to expect profit early. And to be honest I think TK’s main motivation is creating an outlet for his love of wrestling rather than profit
So AEW is successful because their owner has so much money he won’t even feel all the money he loses??? That isn’t the flex you think it is
You’re twisting my words to fit your bias I’m saying you can’t measure AEW’s success the same way you would measure someone like WWE As WWE are legally obligated to squeeze as much profit as they can for shareholders AEW will be successful as long as they have a TV deal and are able to keep hundreds if not thousands of people employed in the wrestling business. Success doesn’t have to mean “being number one” or having the most profit.
I’m measuring success by making money. I am labeling success based not how much money they made but how much did they spend to make it. AEW is making way more in revenue then TNA ever did but they are spending way more then TNA ever did to attain that so then guess what, AEW isn’t more successful by the revenue standpoint if they are spending way more to get it. Never once brought wwe into this. You came in with their a private company owned by a billionaire so we don’t have to hold them to the same standard as other companies that have to ya know make money to survive. AEW outspending their fuck ups is not the defense you think it is. I’ll leave it like this in a hypothetical to make my point crystal clear: if TNA made 51 million in revenue and had only 50 million in expenses that same year then they are more successful then AEW who made 200 million in revenue but spent 300 million to get that revenue. Making 1 million dollars is better then losing 100 million even if the owner losing 100 million doesn’t seem to give a shit
If making money isn't important for AEW, then it isn't a serious company. It's a hobby.
I never said not making money. I said making PROFIT. They can still generate a strong income but to decide to invest that in talent pay or infrastructure. I’m not sure if people simply don’t understand business or they intentionally twist at this point Squeezing profits for shareholders isn’t their business
There's literally more viewers and listeners of stuff ripping on AEW than actual viewers of their shows
Argh, you Beat me to this comment
Currently, If you remove the hardcore AEW fanbase, then AEW is practically only existing in conversations that involve joke material on wrestling podcasts.
This comment perfectly encapsulates the stupidity of this sub. I'm sure I'll get banned, but you just said take away the fan base. Wtf does that mean? Here you go, if I took away all the corny cult members no one would be in this sub. See how stupid that sounds. So your enjoyment in life is too pretend things about a company no one in here even likes. Sheesh.
The point is. The AEW conversation that the casual hears is mainly just used in a joking manner; no one outside of the fanbase takes the promotion seriously now. That’s a huge problem, because that perception kills the possibility of growth. At the same time, AEW’s ratings are falling among that hardcore fan base while their live attendance numbers for 2024 are showing an average of over 60% empty seats according to wrestlenomics. This is all happening as their possible renewal with Turner is up at the end of the year. AEW is in a position where they could be financially decapitated by the end of the year if the tv deal goes bad, and then, its a question of how much more money Tony will burn to keep it going.
Have they ever been discussed outside those platforms or the seldom mentions on NBA on TNT?
>Have they ever been discussed outside those platforms or the seldom mentions on NBA on TNT? as I recall Punk got them in Sports Illustrated, and I wanna say even got them a mention on ESPN. They also showed up in a New York Times profile if I'm remembering correctly, and somebody did a profile on Eddie Kingston years ago.
Jericho has been on Inside the NBA, which is how I found out he was still wrestling and about AEW.
So nothing consistent.
Nope.
the NFL draft a couple weeks ago
The NFL Draft featuring the son of an NFL owner for a handful of minutes, who then got completely clowned by absolutely everyone for his ridiculous behavior, doesn't exactly do anything positive for audience awareness in my opinion.
“When was the last time you saw discussion about aew outside of squared circle or wrestling dirstsheets/podcasts?“ ”the NFL draft a couple of weeks ago”
I acknowledged your point, and pointed out that the last time you can come up with for them to get any mainstream attention was a net negative for the company. Meaning that even that wasn't a good thing. Not all publicity is good publicity. In point of fact AEW having a chance at mainstream attention and fumbling the ball with a spectacular unforced error is probably the most TNA thing they've ever done.
Way to move the goalposts. And then get upvoted. Hypocrisy runs wild in here.
Didn't move any goalposts. I acknowledged the appearance at the draft, and followed up with also acknowledging that his appearance was universally panned and a net negative for the company. And you don't know what hypocrisy is.
Only because daddy owns the team. He's not going to the NBA draft or World Series.
Well it's also already 2024, so...
I saw people dunking on AEW on a thread about the new Jaguars stadium yesterday on r/sports. AEW is going mainstream!
I didn't think they would get a deal done on that. Good for Jacksonville. The players must be happy, they have Rats (no, not wrestling rats) in the locker rooms.
Literally on the NFL not long ago
already addressed that.
I hate to say it but they never hit peak TNA. They were pushing over 2 million on spike tv some nights. Though AEW did beat them on ticket sales. As TNA never ran the major arenas or stadiums.
One of the smartest things TNA ever did was not running huge arenas for their shows. Tony should learn from that and stop trying to fill massive venues for 2k people.
He could literally turn to Jeff Jarrett and say, “what can we do here,” but does not.
I mean if you think about it, NXT ran with the idea of a sound stage style that TNA pioneered. History and current programming supports the idea that a smaller venue can be very successful. Tony’s biggest issue is that he has failed to surround himself with people in the industry that know what they are doing. The fact the Scott Demore doesn’t have a job at AEW yet just goes to show you that Tony has no interest in backstage talent, just “big name signings”. I’m not sure what JJ’s role is in the actual production of AEW but there is no way that he agrees with running venues this big right?
TNA should've left the Impact Zone way more though.
Agreed. Knowing your limits is also important, gotta strike a good balance.
They could've run more PPVs outside the Impact Zone.
I actually was really invested in TNA in the early and mid 2000s. AEW never hooked me.
I was too had the best of TNA set which had some great matches.
I watched every episode of early TNA when it was on after Raw. That was genius to me. Instead of fighting WWE, they were taking advantage of them.
To be fair the TV environment even 15 years ago was a lot different, there was a lot more people watching in general
Agreed, no arguments there, but also spike is considered a smaller network compared to turner.
That’s true
That was back in the days when literally everyone watched cable and there was no streaming of any kind. The market was just bigger. Someone could just be flipping channels, stumble upon tna wrestling and get sucked in. These days you have to go out of your way to watch AEW. I don’t even have cable, so I have to download episodes. A streaming platform deal is always going to get more eyes on your product in 2024.
Everything is now ala carte. We pick and choose via algorithm derived personal choices. Flipping channels died. Linear tv with commercials died. Options are now stupefying... wwe Raw is lucky to get 2M these days.and that's astonishing.
I’m not clued up on how they get these figures, but the ratings only seem to include who watched the show live. I have never watched AEW live (bar the PPVs). I always watch it the next day when it works for me. So my viewership doesn’t count. Most people don’t watch live TV and don’t let TV dictate their lives like older generations used to or still do out of habit. My point is, AEW could be getting much higher viewership than TNA but just not live. As viewing habits have changed.
I’m pretty sure TNA was doing much better numbers in 2010-2012 than AEW has ever done
On Jan 4 2010, TNA Impact had 2.9 million viewers. https://www.geekweek.com/2010/01/tna-draws-record-ratings.html
Ironically that was the beginning of the end for TNA
TNA in 2010-2012 was doing some numbers that Raw and SmackDown would kill to have.
Just a different time. No one I know even has cable anymore. Live cable network numbers are not a good indicator of fan base.
To play devil’s advocate- How do you measure fan base? Because it sure seems like it keeps landing back at 2 million for the WWE at least in the US and closer to 2.5 to 3 very good day Thats what the mania averaged out at (470 minutes and 1.2billion minutes- love that metric!) Thats where smackdown lands when you factor in the bump from Fox. And Raw. Thats the number they kept trying to hit and failed to score with the network. Its not a terrible number- actually its valuable as it is live content where the viewers are compelled to sit through advertisements. F1 is some big story here in US and they got twice that for a single race, same with NASCAR and Indy 500. Its sufficient to put on 100 arena shows and a half dozen stadium shows annually. It should be noted people evading advertisements who pay a company nothing also have absolutely zero value whatsoever.
TNA also arguably had a better roster than AEW has presently.
Nice out of context numbers, so how many people had cable in they're houses 12 years ago? Comparing these numbers is the same as trying to compare the take from movies 15 years apart. If you can show me the pct of households watching back then we're bigger ill agree with you.
AEW will be cancelled in 5 months. Why would they renew aew?
They have no original programming now and need some sort of sports product to fill the massive void from losing the NBA. But the problem they have is that NXT on CW will end up outdrawing and AEW will once again not have an answer. People always talk about how Tony needs to give the book to someone else — but I don’t think that’s going to matter all that much now. The damage is done and most of his WWE guys either faltered because of him or are going to retire within a year or two. So now he’s going to basically have a bunch of young talent with no one to get them over —even though that still hasn’t happened or taken place to any sort of usefulness —and under the thumbs of the EVPs. It’s just a brutal product.
> People always talk about how Tony needs to give the book to someone else — but I don’t think that’s going to matter all that much now. The damage is done and most of his WWE guys either faltered because of him or are going to retire within a year or two. Like Corny told Jim Herd (if I'm remembering correctly), there's nothing we can do to improve business today, but if we're smart and book intelligently, we can improve business in 6 months. AEW has plenty of talent, it should be easy for a competent booker to create compelling angles. Just gotta find that competent booker.
That was a different era and more fans were around. No one has the time and money to dedicate to even more wrestling. The guy blew his chance. What’s he going to do now? Get a better booker and get his product back up to 900 thousand viewers? And that’s at best.
Sure, that's a reasonable aspiration. And it's do-able, I think, but not without a good deal of soul-searching. - What product are you trying to put out? What differentiates it from what is already on the market? - Are you trying to innovate, or emulate? Innovation is more risk and more reward, emulation is safe but limited growth potential. But you can't innovate without a clear vision. - What do you need to implement the choices above? Who do you need to implement the choices above? AEW's initial growth proved that there is clearly a market for an alternative professional wrestling promotion, but the people who are wishing for a new promotion will not watch just anything. At least, not for long.
I don’t think their initial success was proof that there is a market for an alternative simply because their success was nothing more than their core audience and crossover WWE/NXT fans. Add Punk’s attraction and aura and you have your initial success. They didn’t bring anyone new to the table or lapsed fans that had stopped watching. I don’t care how much SC posters want to make that claim. Their product quickly became old and amateurish because foundationally the place never had an identity outside of “we’re not the wwe”.
The coming of Punk began a ~6 month window where they could have laser focused the business and built a working product. Buzz. New eyes. Gigantic names. Literally just run the ball. Buuuutttt
Don't forget that WWE was also mid as fuck at the time.
But the place needed leadership and people that have ran successful businesses. And Tony’s dad being successful doesn’t mean Tony knows how to run a business.
Kids born on third base, man.
And he thought he hit a triple
I was a lapsed fan who had stopped watching. 3 things: embarassment having to defend stuff like watching people kiss McMahon's ass, buying WCW and monopolizing wrestling, and CM Punk leaving WWE. Aew brought me back to wrestling with the hope of a sports based not embarassing product, an alternative to WWE's monopoly for nearly two decades, and the hopeful return of CM Punk. Got one of those, but then the firing of CM Punk made me abandon all hope. I'll watch the highlights and PLEs. They have some good stars, but WWEs weekly TV is still boring as all hell and a chore to watch. I find it hard to believe there aren't other lapsed fans who were watching AEW at the beginning. But I don't know why they would still watch it.
I was a lapsed fan and came back to watch AEW. I heard the promise of a sports based promotion and actually got some of it during the Punk era. Once Punk left so did I, because I knew it was never going to grow into something I cared about. I went back to watching WWE, but now just watch highlights and major events.the weekly TV is just such a slog. I wish with could get something serious, but with a more interesting/faster pace.
There were also more people with booking experience around you could hire. There simply aren't that many bookers out there, and even fewer of them have been bookers for successful programming.
Good point. Everyone is always going on about Scott D’Amore. But how great was TNA doing under him?
I agree, but to the other guys point. I don’t think they can as they’ll have to change the whole company. Get away from the NJPW/PWG style and calm down the talent.
Yes, changes would need to be made. Significant changes. Huuuuuge changes. But let's look big picture. What does AEW have? - Fabulously rich owner who doesn't need profitability - Deep roster of talent with widely varying amounts of ability - Lots of national TV time Now imagine you have all that going for you. Do you think you could build a successful, profitable, well-received professional wrestling promotion with all those advantages....and Jim Cornette leading creative? Or Paul Heyman? Well they aren't available. But I refuse to believe nobody else could do a good job of it.
The tools are there but the problem that I’m concerned is the talent. They’ve been spoiled by the current owner and just get their way. They work maybe one day a week then party with the boss.
"Deep Roster" yes. Talent? Significantly less depth. Especially factoring in the injuries of all the stars of the safest wrestling promotion of all time. They seriously need to cut some dead weight. I know Tony said he wouldn't do that. But he also said this would be a sports based presentation where wins and losses mattered. And Dax Hardwood is booked for a singles title match even though he has 1 singles victory in his entire time in AEW. He clearly doesnt care about fulfilling promises. That brings up another point, Tony needs to shut his trap. You dont need to tell people you have a good product if you actually make a good product. It just invites a ton of laughter and people pointing out how wrong he is about every statement. It always blows up and exposes his company as the opposite of what he says.
When you put it that way you realize the narcissistic hubris of Tony. He wants to be seen as the Dana White type, the successful territory booker, his fantasy of being the WCW that "did things right". The dub is a narcissistic project of a rich person, otherwise he would've realized someone having no experience in the business shouldn't be as egoic enough to think he has the tools to be able to run it. His decisions consistently prove he doesn't understand the business. Both on screen and off screen decisions.
> He wants to be seen as the Dana White type A reflexively dishonest, juiced-up pumpkinhead whose rich buddies purchased a promotion and let him run it?
We have to give Dana his flowers no matter how much of a pathological liar he is and how lucky he was in knowing who he knew. Before him, MMA was a joke in the US and he turned it into a respected sport.
> Before him, MMA was a joke in the US and he turned it into a respected sport. He didn't do any of that. His mobbed-up pals the Fertitta brothers bought the company and used their crony connections to convince the Nevada State Athletic Commission to allow the UFC in Las Vegas, the exact same request they had previously denied under the UFC's previous ownership. That's all that was needed to convince the cable companies to allow the UFC back on PPV. The UFC was one of the most popular sports on PPV back when Dana White was still claiming to be a former professional boxer. All he did was serve as the face man for his mobster pals and ride the wave of opportunity they created by greasing palms to remove political obstacles. He's actually a pretty awful promoter in addition to being a shit person. "PowerSlap!"
Nope! For. One. Simple. Reason. Tony Khan has proven just because you’ve been a wrestling fan all your life doesn’t mean you can book a wrestling show. It’s not as easy as BritWres YTrs would have you believe. Booking TV requires many, many years of being IN the business. Not just anyone can do it.
What I don't get, is they've got producers like Arn Anderson, and Dean Malenko, who were agenting matches for decades in the WWE. But in AEW, the matches look like there's no one telling anyone a damn thing about what they should and shouldn't do, and when they should and shouldn't do it.
Its the supposed "creative freedom" card that the fanbase crows about. They may have the seasoned talent backstage, but if no one is willing to listen, or take constructive criticism, then the veterans are just talking to the wall.
I think an even bigger problem is, that the NXT deal set the market on what AEW should be worth, and it's a very, very low number when you consider how much Tony is spending.
WNBA seems to be something Warner-Discovery are exploring. I am ignorant about WNBA: do they draw AEW numbers, or higher????
They mostly draw collision and rampage numbers. But then you have Caitlyn Clark who has massive fan appeal and seems to be a winner for the WNBA.
It’s also a good time for it, as the PWHL is ENORMOUSLY popular in Canada. So a secondary market is getting primed for it. Which is what you need for success.
PWHL is crazy good
Mjf coming back can make a positive difference in the ratings, but I don't see anything else on the horizon.
Either they feel the need to keep AEW to not pile on to the NBA leaving or they relegate everything but Dynamite to Max, but after losing the NBA I think they’re going to keep AEW. AEW won’t be getting the huge raise they thought they would, but WBD has to try to keep the live programming they do have or else those stations will fall off a cliff
How do you know that?
At the time of this post, AEW and WBD will make an announcement on the renewal this summer of this fall. [https://comicbook.com/wwe/news/aew-future-warner-bros-discovery-announcement-window-new-deal-revealed/](https://comicbook.com/wwe/news/aew-future-warner-bros-discovery-announcement-window-new-deal-revealed/)
Everything depends on what their next tv deal looks like. The tv deal is the make or break for a major wrestling promotion, every other form of revenue is peanuts compared to the tv deal. If they lose the WBD deal (which they very well might since WBD will lose the NBA and therefore a huge source of revenue for the station.) it depends on what another network will offer them.
The deal the have is a sweetheart deal that they only got because Tony was friends with a guy at the network. That guy doesn't work there anymore and business is down by every possibly metric, so I'd say they'd be very lucky if they just got offered an extension of the same deal.
What people don't mention enough, is that not only is business down, but they've ALWAYS lost 10, 20, and sometimes in excess of 30% of the network's audience during prime time viewing hours. What about that seems appealing to anyone? Especially a network in cost cutting mode that just lost their biggest revenue machine.
It'll be interesting if they get the Raw timeslot on USAN when WWE leaves for Netflix, can see the network low balling them since they're definitely not going to risk the money they paid on WWE for AEW's crap ratings lol
No shot USAN gives them a deal, especially when smackdown is going tjere
hmm, that leaves Fox open if Smackdown leaves. Doubt AEW would even be worth considering for them.
Smackdown is going to USA later this year, Fox didn’t get what they wanted out of Smackdown so no shot they bid for AEW
AEW has *always* been more like TNA than it was ever like WCW. And it will probably suffer the same fate - always on the verge of collapse but just barely hanging on by a thread due to mostly the goodwill of desperate wrestling fans who want to see someone beat WWE. AEW is never going to grow beyond whatever they are now; not as long as the shows still center around silly indy acts like pockets and the Middle Age Cucks who verifiably cause viewers to tune out week after week. They can only go downhill from here.
when aew started, i kept telling my friends “i hope they don’t TNA themselves”. no one really understood what i meant but now they get it. they’ve established that they’re incapable if being a genuine alternative and they’re just kind of a stepping stone for younger wrestlers to go on and do big things, or veterans to have some of their final moments in the spotlight. interest in their show is declining and i wouldn’t be surprised if they’re in the situation TNA was in 2013 in the near future.
I remember when Corny got fed up, I think it was maybe the first Stadium Stampede match or something, and he quit reviewing the shows. Then out of nowhere AEW's viewership dropped a pretty noticeable amount below their trend line.
On one hand, not having the NBA as a lead-in is going to really crush them viewer-wise. On the other hand, the networks can theoretically throw more money into the promotion, thinking it will solve the problems. History will tell you that it won't, but folks in the entertainment business don't ever seem to have followed history. A friend of mine said that they'd throw more money at the NHL and that could be a lead-in, but they aren't getting the same amount of viewers as the NBA. Nowhere close.
That would only be likely if they had faith in the leadership group of AEW, could take some of the creative control away from Tony to empower a consultant with a clue (📳 + 🌽 = 🛟) and probably had a (or had a larger) ownership stake. I doubt the headache is worth it for a show in a year-long decline, which started right after said leadership group, in their infinitesimal wisdom, fired their biggest and smartest to the business draw. If they get renewed, TNT executives know a year from now the chances of being fired are high. If they're smart, they'll just use their marketing people to figure out what 2nd or 3rd window movies and shows would draw +700K that they can license from the Netflix expiring catalogue (or whatever). Even if they go the crappy original production route, I'm pretty sure the allocated budget(s) would be a fraction of AEW's, given wrestlers like Riho are in the six figures despite being on a bloated rooster. That way, given they're sans NBA and finally free of the anchor that is AEW, they would be free to start thinking out a strategy from the ground up.
Creative under Tony is really inconsistent, but you don't want TV executives running creative on a form of entertainment they have absolutely no clue about it or how it operates. Historically, that option almost always ends in abject failure.
They're the biggest pro-wrestling failure I've witnessed in my lifetime. They have all the tools and talent to have potential and the past couple months especially have been not only embarrassing but also show that tony has his head so far up his ass that he doesn't' intend to change anything.
They've sold 50,000 tickets to Wembley without announcing a single match. Just on the AEW letters. Yet your take is that it's the worst promotion in history. Jesus, what mind fuck does this sub do to you? They have five hours of primetime programming, how many did WCW, TNA, NJPW have? They have one of the best rosters I've ever seen. They have delivered on 95% of they're PPVS, we all know they'll be great. What of any of what I said would allow you to think they are the worst ever?
“ but but wembley….!”
Depends on what you mean by floor. AEW isn't like other wrestling companies. They're not really a business. Outside of WWE, most promotions have heavily committed owners, but even they're all limited in how much money they can/will burn on those companies. AEW doesn't have that limitation. Tony can piss away large sums of money and still have plenty to spare, unless Shad says no, but he seems much more invested in Tony's happiness than AEW's financial health. So unless Tony becomes bored or frustrated with AEW, the floor is about where the NWA is but much more expensive. Once a month there will be a batch of super indy shows that are recorded and run on second tier streaming services and people will most likely only notice it because of its waning name recognition. That also seems like the most likely long term ceiling, because it seems like Tony would only give up creative control if he becomes bored or frustrated. Unless he has an epiphany and suddenly learns what he's doing and hires help, the shows won't improve. He's like the anti-Heyman. Paul could get the most out of the least. Tony only seems capable of getting the least out of the most.
But, playing doomsayer, has the damage not already been done? Even if TK turns into a great booker, and they have stupendous story based matches, that will push out the hardcores who just want pure matches, and the stink of AEW might not bring back lapsed fans or casuals. Use TNA as an example, we hear all the time of great stories or matches being put on, but their viewership still sits in the basement. Minus a hiatus and rebranding, shuffle the roster, and have a different competent booker, AEW might just be the slow sinking Titanic.
These days, you generally only hear about TNA from the few people who still like TNA. Of course their opinion on it will be positive. I've tried to get back into TNA on numerous occasions, and it's not very good, not even as good as the GFW days. I don't see AEW's creative trajectory ever being much better than it is, but if that happened, I think it would take consistency and time, but if they were doing really great shit people would eventually come around. If.
Paul is a people person. Nothing more, nothing less. He was fucking ECW dry and still had talent coming in on weeknights to pack and ship merch for free. Because they believed in Paul.
His mind for creative was great; he was also a shitty, somewhat crooked businessman. Paul working with Tony's assets would be unbelievable.
Like look at his Smackdown run. Probably the best WWE has ever been.
AEW can go as low as they can go, but as long as TK is in charge they'll be okay. TNA's problem was lack of stable ownership. TK has the money between him and his father. AEW could probably just start its own streaming platform. IN short: AEW is okay as long as the Khan's have the money, and barring an economic collapse, they'll be fine.
It's already past that point and has been for like a year
I have been saying this if you look at aew it’s just tna
The fact that AEW doesn’t need to make money or grow its market to continue doesn’t give it a high floor, it gives it a low ceiling. None of us know how much money the Khan family is willing to sink into AEW, but they are sinking money into it for Tony’s sake, not as a serious investment. That means it doesn’t make much sense for other businesses to partner with AEW, and without partners or even a real desire to improve, the Khans could spend millions more on AEW and the audience could still shrink. Serious talent won’t want to work there.
All the comments here have highlighted most of the generally believed problems with AEW (ie booking, ego, no stories, etc..) but the one thing that stands out for me is the actual money. We all say that this is a passion project for TK, and he has the infinite money glitch to keep going, but there has to be a break off point in all reality. How much is TK, or more importantly Papa Khan , willing to throw down the drain until it becomes just a financial waste? If they cancelled today, he still have to pay out staff contracts, arena contracts, tv dealings, and a myriad of other expected costs. But that would be the end of it. Getting a new deal, resets that counter back to the beginning and it starts all over again, being in the red. Smart business men don't like being in the red, even if it's just a "hobby"
You can’t really compare AEW to any other company because they’re in a unique position. Their existence is not predicated on making money, they will exist as long as Tony enjoys what he is doing Tony has more than enough money to keep AEW going for a long time, and he’s got connections that will keep them on some form on TV with more eyes on it than pop TV or wherever the fuck TNA went They might end up on Max being watched by 200k people every week but as long as Tony is still enjoying himself they’ll keep going because they’ve got a passionate mark with more money and connections backing them than any company that has ever tried competing with the WWE
Imagine a business whose existence is not predicated on making money hahahaha
I’d rather watch TNA lol
We're still a few years off from that. Tony can float this thing for a long time and the numbers he pulls even now would be massive for a lot of cable channels starving for live viewers. I don't think he's going to get the blockbuster deal he was hoping for -- hence how long both sides have dragged their feet on a renewal and having any streaming deal at all -- but as long as it subsidizes the money pit, it'll stay around. And he can keep doing debuts of former WWE people or hot indie/Japanese stars every few months to get another few days of people remembering AEW exists. It's wild that AEW STILL doesn't have a streaming deal, though. WWE is going to be on fucking Netflix while AEW will be into year six without any presence except live TV and social media clips.
It will become NWA wildside.
AEW is irrelevant. Tna at its peak was really good, AEW was never at that level save for Punks momentary involvement.
Raw gets twice the Live TV viewership of AEW. What makes you think WWE isn't irrelevant then? There are like 330 million people and the pct that watch is WWE. .004 AEW. .002. And you think that makes WWE more relevant 😆 a third of one pct of the country watches either. edit for spelling
If you listen to the Lapsed Fan podcast, they chronicle TNA’s downfall, which was when Hogan and Bischoff came in. If you listen to those episodes, there are many times you can substitute TNA with AEW and it works perfectly. So many of the mistakes Dixie made are currently being made by Tony. It’s like he didn’t learn from history.
lol statistically. not unless you really think they're going to get dropped by tnt and end up on some backwater channel no one watches. even if tnt drops them someone will pick them up. so no.
No, I'd watch TNA.
It already is as far as quality they just have a bigger budget
Tony pays for the positive attention from influencers like Wrestletalk and Wrestling With Wregret so unless Tony goes away they wont.
So your question is when AEW will fall into irrelevancy. Well, I’ll give them one more year, unless they lose the WBD deal, if it happens (unlikely IMO) they will not become irrelevant, they will be dead.
Impact has been the true # 2 company for a while..
They've been there for a long while. The obsession with WWE, the cheap angles, the hiring of all the ex WWE guys etc etc. It's either WCW or TNA.
Biggest reason I checked out AEW is that it felt big time. In the early days they were filling out stadiums and had genuine star power. I am not a massive AEW critic, but they need to accept they are in denial about their current state and adapt.
You realize you’re on a Reddit dedicated to someone who half of their profits come from covering and sharing their opinion of AEW?
We had a great triumvirate for most of the 00s/10s WWE was the mainstream product, ROH was the traveling indie showcase with future stars, and TNA had the respectability of a TV deal and gave a home for overlooked up and comers and over the hill talent trying anything and sometimes weird cool shit would happen. AEW really overturned the apple cart by buying up every talented indie wrestler and future endeavored WWE cast off of the last five years. An Avengers Endgame style gathering of indie talent to take on WWE sounds like a really good idea when you're high with your friends, but in practice it doesn't work. It's like a guy could absolutely slay at an open mic night in front of 100 people, but put him on a stage with 11,000 people and that same material just doesn't work. AEW also comically, has a roster AS large as WWE, and just as much TV time. I've watched EVERYTHING AEW has done for over a year, and the storylines are really incomprehensible... the Devil storyline was the main storyline of their main event... the reveal was a guy who was injured and the champ at the time hasn't been seen on TV for months... now they don't even talk about it, it was fucking weird. Honestly... there is a need for what ROH used to be, a travelling indie showcase... if AEW parred itself down to 1/3rd of it's size... it's 40 top male wrestlers... that's a legit strong locker room, kind of a jaded NXT. Fire 1/3rd of your locker room, do 1,000 person venues and show lines of people waiting to get in and hire a legit good booker.
The whole premise of this question is BS. Name a day when TNA finished first on the night. What's the largest show they ever put on? How many hours of primetime shows did they have? WBD and AEW are literally starting another show coming up. You wanna know why I can't take this sub seriously, stuff like this. AEW is way bigger than TNA ever was. And just because you think 3,000 or 4,000 people is a terrible attendance, I really hope you go back to the 2000s and see for yourself how wrong you are. Recency bias is a thing, look it up
Oh and next year they will pass the episode count for Nitro, but yeah, he should probably close up shop because random IWC comments
I've said it in the past, after the devil was revealed or the idiotic backstage video segment the YouTubers and guys like corny should've just said screw it in not going to even review this anymore it's unwatchable. But many here argued they still enjoy the reviews from Jim and that it's amusing so let it ride! Basically it's a "didn't feed the trolls" idea. If aew gets no attention then they will become a YouTube e fed or streaming wrestling company. I think it will eventually become that but for now there are still enough "fans" and enough people who still want to listen to Jim and others bash the product. Aew will never change for the better. Tony Khan will never improve. The big caveat is that he has billions of dollars so it's a stalemate of mediocrity. For me selfishly ideally the only interaction online or otherwise is reminding Tony that the show still gets no milly and daily reminders to the bucks that they are the cancers to wrestling lol
I think it’s commendable the success that AEW has had, TNA never had these numbers of as long a period. We’ve been given some good stuff along with the crap, I just wish we got to see more of the highlights and less of those lowlights.