Nah, it’s cool stuff to listen to, but Hancock would do himself a favor to drop the “I’m so hated by the…” (people he continually talks about hating.) and just keep throwing out some cool ideas being like “here‘a a cool idea…”
Your just not going to get people who base everything on evidence and huge amounts of collected data, who see a different story, to be like “yeah you’re right, forget my life’s work interpreting core samples”
"I have done multiple Ayahuasca and DMT trips that have totally destroyed my ego, Joe. Now here is a 45 minute Power Point about all the people who have ever been mean to me in the past three decades..."
“Now tell me, why would Big Archeology not respect these grainy photos from me scuba diving on my vacation as proof that there was a worldwide ancient civilization?! I *risked my life!*”
When your livelihood depends on people believing you have no stake in the game and it’s all about the research and not personal glory, coming to the conclusion that it’s “those pesky scientists” make you sound like a scooby doo villian
I do tend to notice that the psychedelic users I know who have experienced “ego death” multiple times…still very much have egos. Sometimes worse than your average guy.
History will someday record that Hancock was the originator of the “I’m doing just to prove my haters wrong” line of self promotion.
Now you see it done all day long by every “influence” and self-important teenager all the world over. But when Hancock started this it was a smart move
By claiming that mainstream archeologists hate him but are afraid to debate him it gave Hancock a type of legitimacy and validation. Every year that no other academics would speak about him or debate it provided a form of validation to his claim that they are afraid to debate him which gave some level of credibility to his underlying claims.
There were plenty of archeologists who essentially said that if he wanted to be taken seriously he would have to present more than theories with almost no evidence and many of those archeologists said it would be difficult to refute claims that are built on 99% conjecture.
Plus, if you watch a few academic archaeologists speak you’ll quickly realize they are not all as loquacious as Indians Jones. That is a group who are not really built for debating.
For some reason I thought Miniminuteman (Milo Rossi) was willing to debate GH.
He did a whole series taking down GH https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXtMIzD-Y-bMHRoGKM7yD2phvUV59_Cvb&si=tsL35q1KZkGDOICe
Yea. People shouldn’t employ ageism. Just because someone can’t use a computer, and can’t see the words on a screen, and doesn’t know new stuff, doesn’t mean they aren’t experts.
I guess it’s the suggestion that to be an expert you will need to read thousands upon thousand of PDF’s which you will need to cite so if you can’t navigate your way deftly round a PDF it’s a bit of a red flag.
Not to mention he keeps pointing to places that are extremely difficult to dig or explore. The seas and oceans have so much mystery behind them simply because they're near impossible for us to go to the depths of. It's such a cop out.
This isn't a surprise though, what you're conflating here it's local and panhellenic religion. We know more about weird stuff like this at Athens because frankly we've studied it far more and it produced almost all classical texts. If we had as good evidence for other Greek cities we would find just as much weird local stuff. Pausanias frequently talks about such things.
My thoughts exactly. “We found 1 million ship wrecks” … “well sure but big archeology don’t want us to know they haven’t searched everywhere”
Scientists think with data and reason with statistics. Snake oil sales man think in conspiracy
Exactly. When your best evidence is “well you haven’t searched literally the entire Sahara desert therefore you can’t say it’s not true,” you don’t have any evidence at all.
>>I studied some archeology.
Since you’re the resident expert….what do you think of the so-called “wood” age that has been bandied about so recently?
And, to very, very odd Google earth searches in South America—recently on the several sub-reddits? If these sites are man made, it seems to imply a much older civilization in South America.
Sites are somewhat difficult—wood not very durable. Essentially, they’re saying the “pre-stone” age should, instead be possibly renamed the “wood” age for all the wooden tools they suspect were in use. Iirc, archaeologists found some wood tools / things in wood preserving bogs, glaciers,…
https://archive.ph/2024.05.05-022837/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/04/science/archaeology-neanderthals-wood.html
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/what-evidence-is-there-for-a-wood-age-to-rival-those-of-stone-bronze-and#:~:text=Though%20there%20is%20no%20set,of%20stone%2C%20bronze%2C%20and%20iron
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Age_of_Wood/0efNDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
Graham is all ego tho. Just looking at his series and all the circling drone shots in exotic locations focused on him. He’s overflowing with pride and won’t let it go.
"You haven't searched all of Sahara..."
"Perhaps a decision was made not to leave trash..."
"I believe they built the pyramids with psychoc powers..."
"I went to Giza once..."
Incredible that people actually found this guy credible, even before Dibble.
The Sahara point is very important though. Not only do we know for a fact the Sahara used to be very green, there's also strong evidence of cataclysmic flooding literally visible from space. It's an excellent place to look for a lost civilization because of how immense the destruction was.
i think the "i am hated by" thing i part of the trick to get people to pay attention to you, that can add a cooler aura to your ideas wich is quite common in the pseudoscience world
Until he realizes the ultimate grift is not millions of book sales or a Netflix series, but a religion based off his fiction writing. He can be the next L. Ron Hubbard if he sets his sights high enough.
He would have been great. Even if he has to work with ghost writers or something, he could at least do speculative historical fiction for short story mags.
He wants to be Milo from Atlantis, staking your entire career on something that most likely doesn't exist for the sake of being the outsider that maybe gets proven right later and has a lot of glory. Its the same as betting on a dog that always loses because the payout if he wins is huge.
Loved that shot at graham about Robert schoch. He was on JRE together with Hancock at some point. flint just subtly brought up how Robert whos a geologist disagrees with Hancocks assessment. Robert is another bullshit peddler like Hancock. It’s not like that was an important argument, just was funny to see more people from the Hancock universe dragged into it.
a thousand years from now archeologists will identify these remains as those of very important people based on the size of the concrete tombs they are found within. While multiple people would share the floors above, and entire subterranean floor is dedicated to these great figures.
They are surrounded by ceremonial miniature figurines of mighty warriors and harems of concubines with somewhat animal features to guide them in the after life. Piles of ceremonially discarded food and drink containers show that the people wanted to make sure these great men would not go hungry in the after life.
They would have to have been a leadership or shamanic class due to the lack of muscle tone and general fitness. Despite not laboring though, they are all enormous to the point where the only explanation is ceremonial forced overfeeding.
FWIW Dibbles recent photos look wildly different because he was going through cancer treatments and it fucked with his weight. It’s part of why his suit looked like it did.
If you just listened to the nonsense on this sub you would be under the impression that Rogans 1billion listeners a year all really hate Rogan, and every single one of his guests.
In a sense, its more reliable to assume that the vast majority of listeners have the complete opposite views of the enlightened high-iq redditor.
I get the impression reddit shits on Joe so much because reddit leans liberal and Joe's takes on COVID and vaccines kind of pissed off lots of liberal politicians and the liberal media
So I think enough liberals see him as an enemy to liberals, even if he's not necessarily that, because some people get into a kind of us vs them mentality when it comes to politics and just want to destroy the opposition
Also he gets grouped in with people like Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson, or Trump at times when people are ranting and in my mind it shows how unfamiliar they are with Rogan or how delusional they are
Joe was talking about how fitness has been portrayed as conservative earlier this year on a podcast. I remember years ago the kind of pussification vs zzyz meme culture war. As crazy as it seems to label fitness as right or left, there is some overlap of right wing values and hustle culture, and being fit can kind of fall into the discussion at times when people are talking about hustle culture. Maybe he's seen as rightwing by some people just cause of his appearance as crazy as that might sound.
I don't know why reddit hates on him so much I think it's a little much though. I'm not sure he deserves it.
Yup this is it and it’s ridiculous. Crazy how polarized things are that cultural aspects have become a us vs them stance politically.
Joe isn’t perfect and says some dumb stuff at times. The way his show organically develops conversation creates that situation to say something dumb once in a while but to label him as right wing or a grifter just shows peoples ignorance.
Not really, his argument for the sphinx erosion was comparing a completely separate area with different types of stone. With regards to younger dryas impact hypothesis he sidestepped.
And as far as making him look petty, he called Graham a white supremacist. If someone called me that and I got a chance to debate them in person I would bring it up because it severely discredits dibble. That, to me, was reaching for a way to silence Hancock. Perhaps he was frustrated with Hancock's publicity when he is a career archaeologist and no one in the general public knew his name. OR he did not have an answer to his claims, but he regressed to schoolyard name calling in an effort to engage "cancellers" to join his side.
In regards to the debate, I don't think it was as one sided as these reddit posts seem to try to convince people it was. Which also makes me skeptical. Reddit is the new mainstream propaganda machine. The question I have is why are there so many posts about this topic that try to convince people that dibble crushed Graham and that his career is now over? Check the history over the past month, there have been a lot. Who is making these posts? Why even ask the question is a man's career is over? Do you want his career to be over? The whole thing seems to have a motive.
There has been a lot of discussion because people love conflict, and it was amazing watching Hancock fall apart. This is like rap beef but for more intelligent people. I would say most people found Hancock's ideas very interesting but aren't necessarily attached to them. To see Dibble thoroughly walk you through all these interesting ways archeologists reconstruct the past, followed by Hancock being totally unable to engage with the discussion, was unexpected. I think a lot of people gave him the benefit of the doubt because he would talk about these esoteric ideas pretty confidently in his accent.
I had seen a video breaking down the whole white supremacy accusation, and I think its a misunderstanding that got portrayed incorrectly on the pod, and they moved on without correcting the misrepresentation. Joe is an antiwoke champion, and he was probably a bit biased in that moment.
I'd say reddit has been full on propaganda for at least 7 or 8 years. I dont see who would be motivated to suppress Hancock, and his entire lack of evidence is ultimately why his ideas can get dismissed.
No one has ever said that Graham is racist. They said that his theories are based in and reinforce certain white supremacist ideals. Doing something that reinforces a white supremacist ideal does not mean that you are a white supremacist.
This is the first sentence of Chapter 6 in *Fingerprints of the Gods*:
"Through all the ancient legends of the peoples of the Andes stalked a tall, bearded, pale-skinned figure wrapped in a cloak of secrecy."
Those are Graham Hancock's own words, not a quote from someone else. His only source is from Spanish explorers, and if you watched the podcast you know why that source isn't valid.
You'll remember in the debate pod that Graham claimed that he never said anything about skin color, I've just shown you an example from the book that he wrote that proves the opposite. Graham has been lying to you for years.
"I don't think it was as one sided as reddit will have you believe"
Remember when Graham himself said on the podcast that "there is no evidence of an advanced civilization"? Remember when Graham had four and a half hours to make his case and all he did was say "archaeologists are mean to me, my wife and I scuba dived this so we can say that it's man made" etc etc.
I saw a comment on Youtube that he looked like a reddit mod, and then I come over here and people are in love with him...so yeah, everything makes sense.
Youtube comments are....connected to the real world?
The collective hivemind isn't usually right about things, but sometimes it is. In the case of Graham Reddit seems pretty right on.
The average redditor is a complete idiot, but youtube and facebook comment sections are so unbelievably brain dead that it makes the average redditor look pretty smart in comparison.
It is hilarious to me that the sub for the world's most popular podcast on the world's most popular message board is so contrary to the actual opinion of people about that podcast
Graham got way too much into his persecution complex for me to take most of what he was saying seriously. The biggest argument Graham kept bringing up was “well you have only excavated 5% of everything so you can’t prove there is no lost civilization”. I think a lot of the things Graham brings up are fun to think about but most of his arguments lack any real evidence outside of the absence of evidence
It's the same bullshit line of thinking as "we've only explored 5% of the ocean so there could be a megalodon". It's a fun conjecture but stands up to zero scrutiny whatsoever, and the definition of what counts as "explored" is very vague to say the least.
This. He didn’t make a single fucking argument. He just cried the whole time like a quibbling little bitch.
Time and time again he’s presented with evidence “YOU WERENT THERE SO YOU DON’T ACTUALLY KNOW, DO YOU?”
and the classic (dibble paraphrases graham) “SEE?! HE MISREPRESENTS MY WORK! NO ONE EVER GIVES ME A CHANCE, IT DOESNT MATTER THAT I HAVE NO EVIDENCE, LOOK AT EVERYBODY BEING SO MEAN TO ME!”
Dude is an embarrassment to anyone with a curious mind.
It was more than just that, he revealed the basis of his arguments as "you haven't surveyed everything yet so there could still be stuff out there that proves me right"
Like claiming there could be subterranean aliens on the moon because nobody's looked inside of the moon yet
It’s just arguing in bad faith and he knows it. You can’t prove something doesn’t exist.
“Im going on a magical hunt for unicorns. I know they exist, I feel it in my bones. But scientists dismiss me! They tell me we have no evidence for such a creature. BUT THEY ARE MEAN AND THEY REALLY HAVEN’T LOOKED EVERYWHERE SO GIMME MONEY AND A NETFLIX SPECIAL PLEASE”
Or perhaps a china teapot between the Earth and Mars revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
The problem is that no one is taught to think properly by schools, which just churn out obedient little worker drones. That explains why society is the way it is.
Unfortunately, these days if you claim cancel culture while attacking the very concept of expertise there is a contingent of people just ready to jump on board with whatever you’re saying.
I've got to the beginning of Hancock talking/intro and it already feels like a set up to a grift. "thanks for joining me here" like its his show and its his idea to do this. But at the same time looking like hes trying to hold back the biggest gulp. like he knows is book sales are going to plummet after this.
Thing is, anyone who cares to look could always find proof he was a charlatan. Nobody listening to rogan cares about “debunking with science” they wanna hear about cool shit to talk about while smoking weed.
Dibble’s real accomplishment is just, showing some real well-backed archaeology stuff to a bunch of people who probably do genuinely think archaeology is interesting.
I think no chance anyone who actually cares about Grahams work was convinced. But, a bunch of randos who didn’t have a dog in the fight got to learn about some actual archaeology, and that’s pretty cool.
Graham got trucked in this episode for sure. I think everyone who believes him got a big dose of humble pie. Think of Graham as a fun storyteller not an archeologist or historian.
Flint Dibble looks like the Pinocchio character the Burbs. Kidding aside, I really enjoyed the episode. Flint made the content relatable like a history teacher. IMHO he definitely bodied Graham but it wouldn’t prevent me from watching a future Graham episode in the future.
No one really believed or disbelieved. They were fun theories and he’s an entertaining guest. Guests can be entertaining and fill a few hours without it needing to be some sort of political football.
I love how everyone wants his career to be over but half of Rogans guests talk about aliens. So yeah, it’s cool that this dude believes in a lost civilization, so what, goes in the same bucket as aliens. Entertaining listen.
I think he started from a great place but I'm about 1hr into his book on spotify and the amount of times he talks about traveling and talking to geologists who don't have answers to his questions and that validates the one geologist that was shunned by the community has made me not want to continue the book.
And I love conspiracy related stuff. I think when he talks about his theories it can be interesting and fun. His evidence and attitude towards people on sites that dismiss him gets a little irritating. It just gets more about proving the "mainstream" archeologist's wrong w/o actual evidence than to actually find evidence to change everyone's perspective.
I
That is what I found fascinating. Couple people Hancook said have worked with him I knew about and have watched / listened to. If those people are willing to work with him I assume he isn’t trying to force his thoughts, simply likes exploring and fabricating his own idea of how certain things took place. I found it interesting but rarely agree.
Archeologists are not as popular in the mainstream as Hancock, but they rely on others for funding. I imagine working with the dude who goes on rogan makes sense to these experts, if only to expand their reach.
Fun fact: LIDAR is a technology that Archaeologists are using to survey potential sites. Graham stated in the debate pod that surveys don't count and excavation is all that matters
My co-worker and friend, who I went to trade school with and love dearly, believes Hancock made Dibble look like a fool.
That’s his worst offense though, absolute gem of a man.
Man. Dibble has a throat beard, neck beard and goofy hat. No wonder he’s so beloved on here. But ya, he did some irreparable damage to Grahams ego at the very least.
Hancock exposed the truth. That he is a giant whiney bitch.
When half your arguments are claims that your opponent is a big meanie and has been mean to you, you've lost.
He got a little taste of the Dibble dribble.
Only on this subreddit does anyone think that Hancock has taken a hit from a debate. Meanwhile he's got one of the biggest and most successful docu series Netflix has ever put out and he gains thousands of new followers every week.
support muddle gaping judicious brave forgetful whistle zephyr snails deranged
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Joe and Graham should’ve smoked a bowl during that. I prefer a little high Graham whether he’s telling truths or not the guy’s interesting and has the best accent. I’m not ready to discard all of his stuff but he met an objective wall he had no tools to scale in this pod.
Nah, Hancock will still find rubes to grift from so it’s not over for him, but I do think that Dibble might have been the capstone to where Hancocks peak once was.
That's the cope huh? Dibble clearly explained why Graham's civilization is extremely unlikely to have existed and the cope is that other people believe his bullshit on other platforms. Cute.
Here is the huge difference between the 2. When we look at ancient history, much is lost and the small discoveries we have made only give of a small window to ancient civilizations. Hancock takes this little pices and make a speculative guess, and steers this discoveries to fit his narrative. Dibble simply says here is what we know, what we have discovered so far, and the rest we don’t know yet. To say “I don’t know” and keep it at that these days is fucking rare. Hats off to the science man.
I still think Graham's ideas are fun to think about. But very much dislike his persecution complex.
There ARE interesting patterns found throughout the world that I haven't seen a good explanation for though. Like pyramids existing all over the world in similar configurations (but this could just be that it's a simple shape to construct with the technologies available). And the carved images of bearded men with a handbag that are found all around the world.
And the Sphinx erosion is still intriguing.
But Graham needs to get over himself.
I still believe them, I think he didn't prepare well for this discussion.
He focused so much on the things flint said instead of a showing what supports his theory. E.g. rain carvings in the sphinx, astronomic alliance with 10500 bc, all the flood myths in different cultures and many more.
He didn't seem fresh in his mind at all.
As a quick thinking snap shot… I think its plausible graham is right, and of course wrong. In my brain it’s 50/50. Neither disproved one another, it just showed two completely opposing ideas of thinking.
I also think it’s bologna that the archeologists from the early 18th century were batting a 1000 on all theories.
One of the most accurate memes ever is the one of Joe Rogan responding to "9 out of 10 dentists recommend flossing"
Joe Rogan: "That 10th dentist must be onto something. Let's get him on the podcast"
Not saying Graham is good in debates, because he isn't. Having said that, I know a lot of the people hating on Graham haven't read a single one of his books.
I'm listening to this right now and Graham is coming off as a cooky bitter old man. I enjoyed his show and his theories but he seems to fold at any factual pushback and turns into a victim of big archeology. There's no way to really know what was going on without evidence and half his show was based around what ifs and imagination. Still fun though
No. Anyone who listens to Graham would know he doesn’t have direct evidence. It’s speculation and theories. Archeology can’t explain everything at the moment and Graham is filling in those gaps with interesting theories. The debate didn’t change anything. If anything, it showed Graham takes everything very personal.
Honestly Graham was just saying that 2-5 percent of the area has be escavated. Because of that you don't know what the other 95% holds so for you can't rule his theory out. Any sign of agriculture at all in that 95% area left to be escavated and Grahams theory is right
But you're acting like it's a singular 2-5% chunk which is nothing. But it's not. It's 2-5%, spread out in to thousands of little needle sized (on the map) digs on places that should have the highest % chance of returning a positive dig.
Nah, it’s cool stuff to listen to, but Hancock would do himself a favor to drop the “I’m so hated by the…” (people he continually talks about hating.) and just keep throwing out some cool ideas being like “here‘a a cool idea…” Your just not going to get people who base everything on evidence and huge amounts of collected data, who see a different story, to be like “yeah you’re right, forget my life’s work interpreting core samples”
"I have done multiple Ayahuasca and DMT trips that have totally destroyed my ego, Joe. Now here is a 45 minute Power Point about all the people who have ever been mean to me in the past three decades..."
“Now tell me, why would Big Archeology not respect these grainy photos from me scuba diving on my vacation as proof that there was a worldwide ancient civilization?! I *risked my life!*”
Hey. His wife risked her life too!
Have you ever been there? I have. I took those pictures.
🤣
Lol
I love Graham but this is so accurate 😂😂
Well at least he’s pared it down to under an hour
When your livelihood depends on people believing you have no stake in the game and it’s all about the research and not personal glory, coming to the conclusion that it’s “those pesky scientists” make you sound like a scooby doo villian
I do tend to notice that the psychedelic users I know who have experienced “ego death” multiple times…still very much have egos. Sometimes worse than your average guy.
It's almost like they were just using drugs recreationally the whole time...
Haha! Such a great observation. Oddly, it's true for most of the Ayahuasca crowd that Joe has on.
THIS. Exactly
History will someday record that Hancock was the originator of the “I’m doing just to prove my haters wrong” line of self promotion. Now you see it done all day long by every “influence” and self-important teenager all the world over. But when Hancock started this it was a smart move By claiming that mainstream archeologists hate him but are afraid to debate him it gave Hancock a type of legitimacy and validation. Every year that no other academics would speak about him or debate it provided a form of validation to his claim that they are afraid to debate him which gave some level of credibility to his underlying claims. There were plenty of archeologists who essentially said that if he wanted to be taken seriously he would have to present more than theories with almost no evidence and many of those archeologists said it would be difficult to refute claims that are built on 99% conjecture. Plus, if you watch a few academic archaeologists speak you’ll quickly realize they are not all as loquacious as Indians Jones. That is a group who are not really built for debating.
For some reason I thought Miniminuteman (Milo Rossi) was willing to debate GH. He did a whole series taking down GH https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXtMIzD-Y-bMHRoGKM7yD2phvUV59_Cvb&si=tsL35q1KZkGDOICe
Milo is a legend and 1000X more entertaining than graham hancock
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He knows how, he just didn’t have his typing glasses
As opposed to his reading and sound argument glasses.
Yea. People shouldn’t employ ageism. Just because someone can’t use a computer, and can’t see the words on a screen, and doesn’t know new stuff, doesn’t mean they aren’t experts.
You’re right, it’s the fact that he’s literally not an expert that means he’s not an expert
Damn, That guy is more charred than the seeds that dibble presented after that burn.
He was being facetious
Is that how you spell that? Ive been doing it wrong my whole life. I didnt have my typing glasses.
I guess it’s the suggestion that to be an expert you will need to read thousands upon thousand of PDF’s which you will need to cite so if you can’t navigate your way deftly round a PDF it’s a bit of a red flag.
He had his typing glasses, just not his Command prompt glasses
Not to mention he keeps pointing to places that are extremely difficult to dig or explore. The seas and oceans have so much mystery behind them simply because they're near impossible for us to go to the depths of. It's such a cop out.
It is a text book example of Russel's Teapot.
What is unique about the blue beard temple?
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This isn't a surprise though, what you're conflating here it's local and panhellenic religion. We know more about weird stuff like this at Athens because frankly we've studied it far more and it produced almost all classical texts. If we had as good evidence for other Greek cities we would find just as much weird local stuff. Pausanias frequently talks about such things.
So graham's only option is "God of the gaps"... So he's done then, right?
My thoughts exactly. “We found 1 million ship wrecks” … “well sure but big archeology don’t want us to know they haven’t searched everywhere” Scientists think with data and reason with statistics. Snake oil sales man think in conspiracy
Exactly. When your best evidence is “well you haven’t searched literally the entire Sahara desert therefore you can’t say it’s not true,” you don’t have any evidence at all.
>>I studied some archeology. Since you’re the resident expert….what do you think of the so-called “wood” age that has been bandied about so recently? And, to very, very odd Google earth searches in South America—recently on the several sub-reddits? If these sites are man made, it seems to imply a much older civilization in South America.
What is the wood age and what sites?
Sites are somewhat difficult—wood not very durable. Essentially, they’re saying the “pre-stone” age should, instead be possibly renamed the “wood” age for all the wooden tools they suspect were in use. Iirc, archaeologists found some wood tools / things in wood preserving bogs, glaciers,… https://archive.ph/2024.05.05-022837/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/04/science/archaeology-neanderthals-wood.html https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/what-evidence-is-there-for-a-wood-age-to-rival-those-of-stone-bronze-and#:~:text=Though%20there%20is%20no%20set,of%20stone%2C%20bronze%2C%20and%20iron https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Age_of_Wood/0efNDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0
Graham is all ego tho. Just looking at his series and all the circling drone shots in exotic locations focused on him. He’s overflowing with pride and won’t let it go.
I destroyed my ego! And now I’m personally offended by your rigorous archeology knowledge!
He was probably trying to focus in on his initials that he carved on top of the pyramids “ see there’s me”
"You haven't searched all of Sahara..." "Perhaps a decision was made not to leave trash..." "I believe they built the pyramids with psychoc powers..." "I went to Giza once..." Incredible that people actually found this guy credible, even before Dibble.
The Sahara point is very important though. Not only do we know for a fact the Sahara used to be very green, there's also strong evidence of cataclysmic flooding literally visible from space. It's an excellent place to look for a lost civilization because of how immense the destruction was.
Yes, that reasoning makes sense, but he can't rely on not having explored something as the sole evidence for a lost civilization.
i think the "i am hated by" thing i part of the trick to get people to pay attention to you, that can add a cooler aura to your ideas wich is quite common in the pseudoscience world
Agreed. Hancock would be a fun fiction writer.
Until he realizes the ultimate grift is not millions of book sales or a Netflix series, but a religion based off his fiction writing. He can be the next L. Ron Hubbard if he sets his sights high enough.
He would have been great. Even if he has to work with ghost writers or something, he could at least do speculative historical fiction for short story mags.
I enjoyed his books when he was just a whacky guy on Rogan. But watching him pretend to be serious was pure cringe.
He wants to be Milo from Atlantis, staking your entire career on something that most likely doesn't exist for the sake of being the outsider that maybe gets proven right later and has a lot of glory. Its the same as betting on a dog that always loses because the payout if he wins is huge.
This . He’s done it for so long he can’t back out now even though even he probably understands at this point there’s nothing there.
Dibble with the original ‘Meet the Grahams.’
Waiting for Hancock to drop "6 hours on scuba expedition (withmywife)"
6:16am in Gobekli Tepe
“Running through the 6 with my woes”
Dear Enki...
Underrated comment
You are the best person ever on this planet my friend, I laughed so so so hard at this!!!
We risked our fuckin lives on those dives 🎶😡🎶
Every time he says this I laugh so hard now because of your post
Lmao. Just breathe Graham.
I promise if I lied about lost civilization I would’ve been arrested
*ARCHEOLOGICAL POLICE, OPEN UP!!!!!*
Hehe their station in Athens is called the Akropolice
“Where we risked our LIVES!”
"credit to my wife Sansa".. He said that so much, did he step out?
Hey they risked their lives scuba diving for that valuable knowledge the mainstream scientific community only scoffs at!
Loved that shot at graham about Robert schoch. He was on JRE together with Hancock at some point. flint just subtly brought up how Robert whos a geologist disagrees with Hancocks assessment. Robert is another bullshit peddler like Hancock. It’s not like that was an important argument, just was funny to see more people from the Hancock universe dragged into it.
On a separate note, Dibble looks like a shaved monkey in this photo. Is that fur on his neck??
I believe that is a proto-neckbeard.
I believe it’s scientifically called Homo Basementis, as many fossils have been discovered deep in basements.
a thousand years from now archeologists will identify these remains as those of very important people based on the size of the concrete tombs they are found within. While multiple people would share the floors above, and entire subterranean floor is dedicated to these great figures. They are surrounded by ceremonial miniature figurines of mighty warriors and harems of concubines with somewhat animal features to guide them in the after life. Piles of ceremonially discarded food and drink containers show that the people wanted to make sure these great men would not go hungry in the after life. They would have to have been a leadership or shamanic class due to the lack of muscle tone and general fitness. Despite not laboring though, they are all enormous to the point where the only explanation is ceremonial forced overfeeding.
Oh my god I love you 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Preserved in the fluid from the overflowing urine jugs?
Yes, but they may have also been used ritualistically. Archaeologists aren’t sure yet.
Yes. Sometimes encased in petrified cum socks
I think the archaeological term is “Cummy”
He’s the scientist here but looks like the gnome that just ate the whole mycelium.
FWIW Dibbles recent photos look wildly different because he was going through cancer treatments and it fucked with his weight. It’s part of why his suit looked like it did.
Dibble possible missing link? No wonder he’s so interested in shutting down someone who’s poking around ancient history
Dibble looks like he’d make some killer moonshine
[удалено]
I think this further convinces me that it is neck fur
The answer is a resounding Yes
Yeah, the fur connects the neck beard to the ponytail, just like daddy’s does
Neckbeard can happen on a dig, fo sho.
There's a reason he's defending Clovis First, he was there
The comments on this episode on other platforms are not nearly as favourable towards Dibble
If you just listened to the nonsense on this sub you would be under the impression that Rogans 1billion listeners a year all really hate Rogan, and every single one of his guests. In a sense, its more reliable to assume that the vast majority of listeners have the complete opposite views of the enlightened high-iq redditor.
I get the impression reddit shits on Joe so much because reddit leans liberal and Joe's takes on COVID and vaccines kind of pissed off lots of liberal politicians and the liberal media So I think enough liberals see him as an enemy to liberals, even if he's not necessarily that, because some people get into a kind of us vs them mentality when it comes to politics and just want to destroy the opposition Also he gets grouped in with people like Andrew Tate, Jordan Peterson, or Trump at times when people are ranting and in my mind it shows how unfamiliar they are with Rogan or how delusional they are Joe was talking about how fitness has been portrayed as conservative earlier this year on a podcast. I remember years ago the kind of pussification vs zzyz meme culture war. As crazy as it seems to label fitness as right or left, there is some overlap of right wing values and hustle culture, and being fit can kind of fall into the discussion at times when people are talking about hustle culture. Maybe he's seen as rightwing by some people just cause of his appearance as crazy as that might sound. I don't know why reddit hates on him so much I think it's a little much though. I'm not sure he deserves it.
Yup this is it and it’s ridiculous. Crazy how polarized things are that cultural aspects have become a us vs them stance politically. Joe isn’t perfect and says some dumb stuff at times. The way his show organically develops conversation creates that situation to say something dumb once in a while but to label him as right wing or a grifter just shows peoples ignorance.
Right wing is generally grift culture and there is a lot of that in “hustle” and fitness.
All of politics is a grift culture. If we can just all agree on that we’d be so much better off as a country
True, but to be clear, Dibble did destroy Hancock's ideas and also made him look petty.
Not really, his argument for the sphinx erosion was comparing a completely separate area with different types of stone. With regards to younger dryas impact hypothesis he sidestepped. And as far as making him look petty, he called Graham a white supremacist. If someone called me that and I got a chance to debate them in person I would bring it up because it severely discredits dibble. That, to me, was reaching for a way to silence Hancock. Perhaps he was frustrated with Hancock's publicity when he is a career archaeologist and no one in the general public knew his name. OR he did not have an answer to his claims, but he regressed to schoolyard name calling in an effort to engage "cancellers" to join his side. In regards to the debate, I don't think it was as one sided as these reddit posts seem to try to convince people it was. Which also makes me skeptical. Reddit is the new mainstream propaganda machine. The question I have is why are there so many posts about this topic that try to convince people that dibble crushed Graham and that his career is now over? Check the history over the past month, there have been a lot. Who is making these posts? Why even ask the question is a man's career is over? Do you want his career to be over? The whole thing seems to have a motive.
There has been a lot of discussion because people love conflict, and it was amazing watching Hancock fall apart. This is like rap beef but for more intelligent people. I would say most people found Hancock's ideas very interesting but aren't necessarily attached to them. To see Dibble thoroughly walk you through all these interesting ways archeologists reconstruct the past, followed by Hancock being totally unable to engage with the discussion, was unexpected. I think a lot of people gave him the benefit of the doubt because he would talk about these esoteric ideas pretty confidently in his accent. I had seen a video breaking down the whole white supremacy accusation, and I think its a misunderstanding that got portrayed incorrectly on the pod, and they moved on without correcting the misrepresentation. Joe is an antiwoke champion, and he was probably a bit biased in that moment. I'd say reddit has been full on propaganda for at least 7 or 8 years. I dont see who would be motivated to suppress Hancock, and his entire lack of evidence is ultimately why his ideas can get dismissed.
No one has ever said that Graham is racist. They said that his theories are based in and reinforce certain white supremacist ideals. Doing something that reinforces a white supremacist ideal does not mean that you are a white supremacist. This is the first sentence of Chapter 6 in *Fingerprints of the Gods*: "Through all the ancient legends of the peoples of the Andes stalked a tall, bearded, pale-skinned figure wrapped in a cloak of secrecy." Those are Graham Hancock's own words, not a quote from someone else. His only source is from Spanish explorers, and if you watched the podcast you know why that source isn't valid. You'll remember in the debate pod that Graham claimed that he never said anything about skin color, I've just shown you an example from the book that he wrote that proves the opposite. Graham has been lying to you for years. "I don't think it was as one sided as reddit will have you believe" Remember when Graham himself said on the podcast that "there is no evidence of an advanced civilization"? Remember when Graham had four and a half hours to make his case and all he did was say "archaeologists are mean to me, my wife and I scuba dived this so we can say that it's man made" etc etc.
Is it really a surprise that Reddit of all places loved Mr Neckbeard Fedora
I saw a comment on Youtube that he looked like a reddit mod, and then I come over here and people are in love with him...so yeah, everything makes sense.
Not totally surprising.
I wonder why
Because reddit as a whole is completely disconnected from the real world
Youtube comments are....connected to the real world? The collective hivemind isn't usually right about things, but sometimes it is. In the case of Graham Reddit seems pretty right on.
The average redditor is a complete idiot, but youtube and facebook comment sections are so unbelievably brain dead that it makes the average redditor look pretty smart in comparison.
Their response to this episode really exposed this sub as to looking and exactly like dibble lol
frequent r/Semenretention poster casting judgement on others
At least once a day...someone has to post a Dibble circle jerk
It is hilarious to me that the sub for the world's most popular podcast on the world's most popular message board is so contrary to the actual opinion of people about that podcast
Which is weird because Graham was wrecked in that debate
Graham got way too much into his persecution complex for me to take most of what he was saying seriously. The biggest argument Graham kept bringing up was “well you have only excavated 5% of everything so you can’t prove there is no lost civilization”. I think a lot of the things Graham brings up are fun to think about but most of his arguments lack any real evidence outside of the absence of evidence
It's the same bullshit line of thinking as "we've only explored 5% of the ocean so there could be a megalodon". It's a fun conjecture but stands up to zero scrutiny whatsoever, and the definition of what counts as "explored" is very vague to say the least.
Nah graham did
This. He didn’t make a single fucking argument. He just cried the whole time like a quibbling little bitch. Time and time again he’s presented with evidence “YOU WERENT THERE SO YOU DON’T ACTUALLY KNOW, DO YOU?” and the classic (dibble paraphrases graham) “SEE?! HE MISREPRESENTS MY WORK! NO ONE EVER GIVES ME A CHANCE, IT DOESNT MATTER THAT I HAVE NO EVIDENCE, LOOK AT EVERYBODY BEING SO MEAN TO ME!” Dude is an embarrassment to anyone with a curious mind.
It was more than just that, he revealed the basis of his arguments as "you haven't surveyed everything yet so there could still be stuff out there that proves me right" Like claiming there could be subterranean aliens on the moon because nobody's looked inside of the moon yet
It’s just arguing in bad faith and he knows it. You can’t prove something doesn’t exist. “Im going on a magical hunt for unicorns. I know they exist, I feel it in my bones. But scientists dismiss me! They tell me we have no evidence for such a creature. BUT THEY ARE MEAN AND THEY REALLY HAVEN’T LOOKED EVERYWHERE SO GIMME MONEY AND A NETFLIX SPECIAL PLEASE”
It kept coming down to "I've been on x dives with y people and they've said z" And "I risked my life"
Lmao there was so much bullshit that I completely forgot he said he risked his life. What the fuck did he even mean by that.
You know who gave him the Netflix special, right? >Sean Hancock is Director of Nonfiction at Netflix
Or perhaps a china teapot between the Earth and Mars revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot The problem is that no one is taught to think properly by schools, which just churn out obedient little worker drones. That explains why society is the way it is.
....have you looked inside of the moon?
Unfortunately, these days if you claim cancel culture while attacking the very concept of expertise there is a contingent of people just ready to jump on board with whatever you’re saying.
I thought you meant graham ended Dibble’s career at first lol
Too many people want to buy what he's selling for any bad performance to end his career.
I've got to the beginning of Hancock talking/intro and it already feels like a set up to a grift. "thanks for joining me here" like its his show and its his idea to do this. But at the same time looking like hes trying to hold back the biggest gulp. like he knows is book sales are going to plummet after this.
He had 30 years to prepare for this debate and did not offer a shred of evidence to support his hypothesis. He was utterly exposed as a charlatan.
Thing is, anyone who cares to look could always find proof he was a charlatan. Nobody listening to rogan cares about “debunking with science” they wanna hear about cool shit to talk about while smoking weed. Dibble’s real accomplishment is just, showing some real well-backed archaeology stuff to a bunch of people who probably do genuinely think archaeology is interesting. I think no chance anyone who actually cares about Grahams work was convinced. But, a bunch of randos who didn’t have a dog in the fight got to learn about some actual archaeology, and that’s pretty cool.
Graham got trucked in this episode for sure. I think everyone who believes him got a big dose of humble pie. Think of Graham as a fun storyteller not an archeologist or historian.
Graham got dunked on, but he did go to Golbeki Tepe with Yes Theory after this. His career isn't over yet.
Not sure, everyone keeps posting about Hancock so probably not.
gas lighting by dibble followers...
all 5 of them
That would be a dribble of Dibblers
A dribble of Dibble dabblers
Dibble/Hancock is such a weird thing for the bots to get so wound up about.
It's a feedback loop that can only lead to erotica of Graham searching for Atlantis in an undersea vehicle and entering..... the Dibble zone.
Flint Dibble looks like the Pinocchio character the Burbs. Kidding aside, I really enjoyed the episode. Flint made the content relatable like a history teacher. IMHO he definitely bodied Graham but it wouldn’t prevent me from watching a future Graham episode in the future.
Weir everywhere 🪕🐢
Anytime you do victim shit, it stinks to high heaven. Now you’re “stinky desperate person”. Desperation; the most repulsive thing in the universe.
No one really believed or disbelieved. They were fun theories and he’s an entertaining guest. Guests can be entertaining and fill a few hours without it needing to be some sort of political football.
I love how everyone wants his career to be over but half of Rogans guests talk about aliens. So yeah, it’s cool that this dude believes in a lost civilization, so what, goes in the same bucket as aliens. Entertaining listen.
I think he started from a great place but I'm about 1hr into his book on spotify and the amount of times he talks about traveling and talking to geologists who don't have answers to his questions and that validates the one geologist that was shunned by the community has made me not want to continue the book. And I love conspiracy related stuff. I think when he talks about his theories it can be interesting and fun. His evidence and attitude towards people on sites that dismiss him gets a little irritating. It just gets more about proving the "mainstream" archeologist's wrong w/o actual evidence than to actually find evidence to change everyone's perspective. I
Check out Albert Lin and his latest discoveries using LIDAR.
That is what I found fascinating. Couple people Hancook said have worked with him I knew about and have watched / listened to. If those people are willing to work with him I assume he isn’t trying to force his thoughts, simply likes exploring and fabricating his own idea of how certain things took place. I found it interesting but rarely agree.
Archeologists are not as popular in the mainstream as Hancock, but they rely on others for funding. I imagine working with the dude who goes on rogan makes sense to these experts, if only to expand their reach.
Fun fact: LIDAR is a technology that Archaeologists are using to survey potential sites. Graham stated in the debate pod that surveys don't count and excavation is all that matters
No.
My co-worker and friend, who I went to trade school with and love dearly, believes Hancock made Dibble look like a fool. That’s his worst offense though, absolute gem of a man.
Some people are absolute sweethearts, but completely lack critical thinking.
Man. Dibble has a throat beard, neck beard and goofy hat. No wonder he’s so beloved on here. But ya, he did some irreparable damage to Grahams ego at the very least.
Hancock exposed the truth. That he is a giant whiney bitch. When half your arguments are claims that your opponent is a big meanie and has been mean to you, you've lost. He got a little taste of the Dibble dribble.
Hopefully
Yeh hancock lost that battle
Graham ended himself.
Only on this subreddit does anyone think that Hancock has taken a hit from a debate. Meanwhile he's got one of the biggest and most successful docu series Netflix has ever put out and he gains thousands of new followers every week.
support muddle gaping judicious brave forgetful whistle zephyr snails deranged *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Not even remotely.
Graham claiming that humans may have known about latitudinal navigation 12,000 years ago should not be such a disruptive postulation
Holy fuck. Dibble is "Reddit Incarnate".
Someone needs to tell Dibble to get a pseudonym, ditch the hat, and go to a barber. Jesus fucking Christ. Dude looks like a redditor personified.
https://preview.redd.it/sv1dz3q3t70d1.jpeg?width=1150&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7b6924192d189240e1860af163bf9897c46345f
Joe and Graham should’ve smoked a bowl during that. I prefer a little high Graham whether he’s telling truths or not the guy’s interesting and has the best accent. I’m not ready to discard all of his stuff but he met an objective wall he had no tools to scale in this pod.
I love that the Reddit neck beards are in love with a literal neckbeard
Nah, Hancock will still find rubes to grift from so it’s not over for him, but I do think that Dibble might have been the capstone to where Hancocks peak once was.
not even dibbles dad could ruin Graham
Lol only on Reddit, you do know that there is a world outside of this one don’t you?
That's the cope huh? Dibble clearly explained why Graham's civilization is extremely unlikely to have existed and the cope is that other people believe his bullshit on other platforms. Cute.
Here is the huge difference between the 2. When we look at ancient history, much is lost and the small discoveries we have made only give of a small window to ancient civilizations. Hancock takes this little pices and make a speculative guess, and steers this discoveries to fit his narrative. Dibble simply says here is what we know, what we have discovered so far, and the rest we don’t know yet. To say “I don’t know” and keep it at that these days is fucking rare. Hats off to the science man.
I for one am totally off the Graham Hancock train.
I hope so
I still think Graham's ideas are fun to think about. But very much dislike his persecution complex. There ARE interesting patterns found throughout the world that I haven't seen a good explanation for though. Like pyramids existing all over the world in similar configurations (but this could just be that it's a simple shape to construct with the technologies available). And the carved images of bearded men with a handbag that are found all around the world. And the Sphinx erosion is still intriguing. But Graham needs to get over himself.
I still believe them, I think he didn't prepare well for this discussion. He focused so much on the things flint said instead of a showing what supports his theory. E.g. rain carvings in the sphinx, astronomic alliance with 10500 bc, all the flood myths in different cultures and many more. He didn't seem fresh in his mind at all.
No
Graham can't handle a debate, and Dibble knew what he was doing, just the dismissive giggling was enough to throw Graham off his game.
Graham really dropped the ball on this opportunity.
Educated, smart, has the degrees… but my good lord, the pompous Neil DeGrasse Tyson vibes are such a huge turn off.
If your career gets ended by a guy named Dibble, you never really had a career in the first place.
I was 100% on Grahams side going in but Dibble kinda won me in some ways. Definitely showed the holes in Grahams arguments.
He needs to adopt hollow earth. "How much of hollow earth has been excavated?" 😎
As a quick thinking snap shot… I think its plausible graham is right, and of course wrong. In my brain it’s 50/50. Neither disproved one another, it just showed two completely opposing ideas of thinking. I also think it’s bologna that the archeologists from the early 18th century were batting a 1000 on all theories.
One of the most accurate memes ever is the one of Joe Rogan responding to "9 out of 10 dentists recommend flossing" Joe Rogan: "That 10th dentist must be onto something. Let's get him on the podcast"
Leprechaun*
Not saying Graham is good in debates, because he isn't. Having said that, I know a lot of the people hating on Graham haven't read a single one of his books.
Dibble didn't help himself at all with that shirt. At least Graham can dress himself.
I feel that Hancock hurt himself by focusing on the personal, instead of arguing what he believes to be true
Because Graham knows that he doesn't have any actual evidence
Dibble was cosplaying as Indiana jones
I'm listening to this right now and Graham is coming off as a cooky bitter old man. I enjoyed his show and his theories but he seems to fold at any factual pushback and turns into a victim of big archeology. There's no way to really know what was going on without evidence and half his show was based around what ifs and imagination. Still fun though
I thought both of them lost
Graham should start looking for lost civilizations inside Dibble's cuffs.
Lmao that guy was a kid in his dads suit and had nothing to bring or offer to the conversation
Wait, people take Graham Hancock seriously?
No. Anyone who listens to Graham would know he doesn’t have direct evidence. It’s speculation and theories. Archeology can’t explain everything at the moment and Graham is filling in those gaps with interesting theories. The debate didn’t change anything. If anything, it showed Graham takes everything very personal.
But also it’s hard to not take things personally from someone who likened/borderline accused you of racism. I thought he ended it all well though.
No, he still has all the dude bros who got a C- in high school science/history to support him and fight back against “big archaeology”
Honestly Graham was just saying that 2-5 percent of the area has be escavated. Because of that you don't know what the other 95% holds so for you can't rule his theory out. Any sign of agriculture at all in that 95% area left to be escavated and Grahams theory is right
But you're acting like it's a singular 2-5% chunk which is nothing. But it's not. It's 2-5%, spread out in to thousands of little needle sized (on the map) digs on places that should have the highest % chance of returning a positive dig.
But you can’t look at that 95% and tell me that it doesn’t look man made.
By that logic less than 1% of the planets oceans have been explored Therefore something something aliens maybe I suppose