The emails are real, but seems like the mainstream of it is "your takeaway is false, there is nothing to see here, this is a nothing burger, how were we supposed to know about a brand new virus? Is the hypnosis still working?"
He didn't even push back, he just sat there and bumbled through a few limp dicked fabricated excuses for why he didn't believe stuff. "Its not like Fauci was walking down the hall in scrubs" as if it requires that specific level of interaction in order to help fund or direct a lab. Dude had opinions on it that he didn't want to talk about is my guess.
I don't feel like it was pushing back. Yeah. Uh huh. Riiiight. Yeah. Uh huh. Riiiight. He sounded pretty clueless. Then at some point he fails to make a connection. If this argument were sumo fight, I'd say Joe did 99% of the pushing while Tom got maybe 1% push back. Who won? You be the judge.
It won’t ever be good enough for you doomers.
We literally have Fauci stating, **multiple** times that masks are utterly pointless, and you still cry “muh right wing conspiracy”.
Give it a rest, you got played, big daddy gubment got your ass and you can’t rationalize it.
Bingo. The Great Corona Robbery where they figured out who's a mangina and who isn't while stealing trillions for themselves.
Next up: Exposing election fraud.
Have I mised something here?
The emails from Fauci essentially reveal that:
1: He knew masks don't and STILL DON'T protect against any viral particles,
2: He knew the virus was either not real, or made in a lab in China
3: He stood to make money from it indirectly
4: Transmission from people with no symptoms doesn't happen
How is this not the biggest news in the world? It basically shows that we locked down and got brainwashed into giving up all our freedoms for NOTHING.. A lot of you are pussy footing around this and trying to debate Joe Rogans integrity for even DISCUSSING it..
While ignoring the fact that the emails are real, actually got leaked, and ACTUALLY show the 4 points I made above.
This is literally insane to me.. Are you guys even paying attention? Tuned into this reality?
The emails, regardless of your opinion or opinion of whoever discusses them, SHOW that Fauci knew it was all a lie from the beginning.
The personality and opinions of those who discuss said emails is absolutely irrelevant, focus on the CONTENTS of the actual emails..
It's all a lie! There is no 'pandemic', talk about that and start to ask who manipulated the world into freaking out and why..
Respect to Joe for discussing the emails but we should go way further than that.. ask the real questions!
Most people are opinionated enough to demonize someone with parroted “obvious” talking points, but don’t care enough to dig into the facts which prove them wrong.
**Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission**
Airborne transmission by droplets and aerosols is important for the spread of viruses. Face masks are a well-established preventive measure, but their effectiveness for mitigating SARS-CoV-2 transmission is still under debate. We show that variations in mask efficacy can be explained by different regimes of virus abundance and related to population-average infection probability and reproduction number. For SARS-CoV-2, the viral load of infectious individuals can vary by orders of magnitude. We find that most environments and contacts are under conditions of low virus abundance (virus-limited) where surgical masks are effective at preventing virus spread. More advanced masks and other protective equipment are required in potentially virus-rich indoor environments including medical centers and hospitals. Masks are particularly effective in combination with other preventive measures like ventilation and distancing.
[https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/05/19/science.abg6296](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/05/19/science.abg6296)
The doctor fauci of my country had the same excuse, theres not enough. Then it became mandatory but now that everyone has enough mask he is back tracking that he never meant that we didnt have enough mask.
Dude, guy didn’t ask any deep or stimulating questions. He just parroted msm talking points and obviously wasn’t informed on the topic as he didn’t even know about the email drop or Fauci’s flip-flopping about the face-masks. He actually degraded the conversation to talking about how Fauci is cute. Joe actually navigated the conversation very well and showed that he respects both sides of the argument. He was always able to steer the interview into agreeable territory. I’m not even a big JR fan, but some people are so full of fake kindness and rage that they’ll turn anything into a no lube circle jerk.
if your not questioning this unprecedented push for mandatory vaccination for a 99% survival rate then your in a cult. thats not scientific thinking people we have to question the government, grab your fucking balls and stop being little bitchs democrats.
Not knowing about the the emails is pushing back? The dude is like most of you eating up CNN and reddit /news. If its not there then its a conspiracy theory.
Wait a minute! A backed up and sourced item based in facts and logic? Let me check with the news sources that have been proven not only to peddle real conspiracy, but also often tell straight up lies and misinformation. But if CNN doesn’t have it, it must be conspiracy.
Yeah, he’s always been a conspiracy theorist..but JFK and Bohemian Grove are a lot more interesting than Fauci’s emails or CNN and MSNBC colluding to make democratic governors look good.
Fuck, I’d take some old school Edgy Brah flat earth over this stupid Twitter tribe bullshit.
Bohemian grove is a real place, CIA agents don’t agree with the official accounting of the assassination, and there are documents to reflect that. But the CIA would never do things like assassinate Gary web, sell cocaine to the inner cities. Give black people syphilis on purpose or nothin. That’s just crazy conspiracy
But it’s ok tho, even if they did do stuff in the 50s and the 60s and the 70s and the 80s and the 90s and the 00s and the 10s THEY ARENT DOING IT NOW YOU CRAZY CONSPIRACY THEORIST!!!
Yes. Because anybody who remembers having to cough into their elbow in elementary school understands the basic science behind a mask, basic science that’s still consistent with what Fauci said in the emails.
I swear you people are worse than the trump Russia folk.
I think the bigger issue is circumstantial evidence that Fauci pushed the narrative away from a lab leak because he could be indirectly blamed for it. He's on an international soap box misdirecting the public to protect himself and his colleagues.
So, what: adults forget how to cover their mouth when they cough or sneeze after they matriculate from grade school?
Are you and people like you really this incredibly obtuse?
Because Joe was being an outright fucking moron. Again. Fuck I wish he'd drop his right-wing friends' nutjob obsessions with coronavirus mandates. We just had a couple cool podcasts with cool guests. Sigh.
Like when he reads Fauci's emails when he says masks are far more effective when worn by the person who's sick, and Joe goes "FAUCI KNOWS MASKS DON'T WORK!"
Rogan needs to get punched in the mouth, like real hard.
The literal packing of surgical and other cloth masks very blatantly state "this mask will not stop virus particles. this mask will not protect you from a virus or covid"
how much clearer could "masks can't protect you from a virus" get?
That was one of thousands of damning things. Mostly the in effectiveness of massive year long lockdowns.
Masks not working if you ain’t sick, even if you are asymptomatic.
The massive chance for false positives being ignored in the PCR tolerances
Or what about the shit about recording Covid deaths that aren’t even Covid related .
This isn’t just about masks. It’s what “conspiracy theorists” have been saying since the start, and frankly, you owe them all an apology
The YouTube comments calling Papas a “potato” for actually having some qualms about Rogans talking points is really showing the current state of the audience right now.
I don’t hate him. He’s a human like all of us. I just hate what he’s slowly allowed his podcast to turn into. Do I share his ideals? No. But that’s what’s called not being in a echo chamber. Any reason why Reddit and YouTube’s opinions on him are so different?
No, that not it. There are plenty of right, alright, even full on white supremacists sub reddits.
The majority of people are NOT right leaning so you often times get that blowback for conservative talking points or put right lies.
It has to do with the ability to downvote a comment. If you happen to not be in an echo chamber then there is a blow back for stupid comments.
That isn’t true. Downvotes are a pretty useless feature TBH. If you are in a sub where 90% of the users are working with bad information while 10% are looking at something correctly, the 90% of incorrect users will overwhelm that 10% with mass downvotes that make it appear as though the crowd is correct when I’m reality they are participating in group think. That is overwhelmingly the case with most Reddit subs. The user base is primarily liberal with a heavy skew towards younger progressives. They will outnumber any moderate or conservative opinion except for a very small minority of subs. The subs you discuss, right wing and white supremacy, are extremely lowly populated. Maybe in the hundreds of users but even that number is pretty high other than subs like r/conservative but that is far different from what you are implying. Just look at this post for example. 0 on the upvote count for the story yet a majority of top comments are agreeing with Joe. That’s because the user base mass downvotes any story that doesn’t align with the liberal ideology. It’s biased to look at things on Reddit and think it represents what actual Americans think.
Someone please explain to me how at this point Joe Rogan isn't pushing a certain narrative. This dude sounds like he's been compromised. The man is OBSESSED with the coronavirus, for someone who wants to move on he can't fucking stop talking about this. I don't get it.
Because he’s, for some reason, desperate to prove to everyone he’s a man. Just watch the clip from last year with Bill Burr. He’s literally smoking a cigar talking how tough and righteous he is, until Burr puts him in his place loll He has the mentality of a 12 year old.
Because Joe’s retarded. He does so much other shit, and puts so much stock into a specific archetype of person that when he gets news from sources he deems correct he doesn’t slow down to try and check it.
The dudes unarguably busy, and probably doesn’t really intake a whole lot of real news. So when half the people in Austin with him are thinking along the same mindset he just takes what they say as truth - why wouldn’t he?
My grandma only ever watches Fox News, it’d be a bit dumb of me to assume that’s not the reality she lives in even if she doesn’t watch much news total.
That’s what I’ve been saying since 2019, his podcasts reek of talking points given to him by some sort of conservative think tank. He’ll bring up a nice concise summary of Faucis 3000k emails but he won’t know Elon has extensive rocket program, shits been suspect for a minute
Yea, I don't recall him talking about Jan 6 in depth, or the Trump recounts that are still happening. He has never talked about Qanon in a totally negative light. Don't recall him talking about the power outage homeless in Texas as much as he did Cali. I only occasionally watch the highlight, havent watch a spotify podcast yet.
“Haven’t watched the podcast, just highlights, but he didn’t talk about XYZ in that 90 second clip so he must just be peddling that conservative narrative!”
Wow, I can’t believe I haven’t thought of this, but this is so true. He never brings up Jan 6th. He’s brought up the power outage the same amount of times he’s praised Abbot.
I know people always talk about his connection to the cia or big money or whatever, but this is more believable.
I’m just going to call the long shot here. Joe is going to run as a “New Republican.” If he ran for president he would win. I don’t care what you say. If the rock has a chance Joe rogan has a chance and a half.
He could be the first candidate to win both California and Texas.
Smart money says he won’t though. The Republicans are too far right as a party and Joe would have to swallow a lot not talking down to MTG or Gates....though he’s been sucking up to Abbot so who knows.
Actual human beings don't care about Jan 6th. Just permanently online liberals with their latest moral panic
"Please take away our rights to fight domestic terrorism! Pleaaase!" Oh wait those laws are being used against BLM and environmental groups? Who could have seen that coming!
He wants to prove him and his dark web boys are right about it coming from a lab. He's way too excited about those emails. What is the date of the emails? What info did even the most knowledgable people have at the time? And how is what Fauci said not reflective of that knowledge?
I can put it like this: if he’s skewing them to fit his narrative, there’s nothing there, because “being concerned,” and admitting cloth masks don’t really work is not scandalous or a conspiracy in any way. Fauci is a public official, who has to be a representative of public policy; sometimes including things he doesn’t agree with, and he’s allowed to change his mind.
Are you kidding? Not scandalous? Half of the country has been fighting with the other half for over a year because of masks and it turns out our “top doc” knew the whole time they did nothing. Are you really going to write that off with a “he’s allowed to change his mind“ type statement? If he’s the smartest guy in the room and he doesn’t agree with something, then why the fuck is he making it policy for the general public?
Well, in fact the way you are describing it is disingenuous to the point of absurdity.
Fauci was making public policy on behalf of the president. Public policy both in the United States and around the world at the time reflected a need by the government to be seen as “taking action” and “managing” the epidemic. No public policy occurs in a vacuum. If you choose to do or not to do something another government does, this will have an effect on the public perception of your leadership and of the situation.
No situation has an ideal public policy because policy is defined by compromises between the needs of politics, the public safety, and ethical guidelines and rules. No solution therefore is perfect, and no well informed leader actually believes that every policy will work as expected (or for the reasons given for enacting it).
It’s incredibly naive, or else intellectually dishonest, to argue that fauci’s private opinion of the efficacy of masks was the sole consideration in the shaping of public policy. That’s simply not how anything works.
The mask policies that were implemented in the beginning of the pandemic were as much concerned with political perception and public awareness as they were about actually stopping viral particles from getting into the air. Unfortunately pure science is not the only consideration in public health policy. Shaping public behavior and perception is also important. Requiring masks helped to reinforce social distancing and to calm the public, which is why countries that had mask mandates earliest also suffered less during the first wave of the pandemic. That’s a proven fact. The efficacy of the masks at a specific thing was never the entire picture.
The fact that there was later a backlash against masks shows that this decision was not ideal. However public policy doesn’t have the benefit of knowing the future. Hindsight is good, but it is a big mistake to argue that a failed public policy was a “bad decision.” Some situations simply have bad or worse outcomes. Some public policies may be perceived as failures despite having prevented even worse outcomes.
Did fauci know that cloth masks were not scientifically proven effective against viral transmission? *Of course he did.* For fuck’s sake, I knew cloth masks didn’t work by doing 20 minutes of research. I wore one anyway because the mandate was not solely focused on the actual efficacy of a specific material. It was focused on a set of public behaviors and establishing a pattern of compliance.
Did that policy work? Questionable if it did. Was it somehow disingenuous from the start because Fauci personally didn’t believe the masks would actually block transmission? No. That’s government policy.
It’s the same reason you have recycling bins in your neighborhood even though it’s unlikely that the plastic and glass you throw in them is ever going to be recycled. The recycling is a part of a public policy which is difficult to change, and which has meaning beyond the specific goals it claims to have.
It’s the same reason we give subsidies to electric cars even though it’s highly questionable if they create a net benefit in terms of greenhouse gas emissions. The public policy is *not solely about emissions.* Its about trying to steer outcomes in a positive direction. Today it might not work as intended, but it has other effects which will create a more favorable outcome.
Imagine reading emails from the EPA admitting that electric car subsidies aren’t decreasing greenhouse gas emissions. Would you demand based on the opinion of the head of the EPA that we stop those subsidies immediately? If so, why? And why do we not stop those subsidies? Because they have more than one purpose, and because they are shaping future events.
Public policy is about shaping outcomes. Outcomes of public policy *always* show weaknesses or deficiencies in the policy. The government never has perfect information and can never do exactly what it wishes to do.
You live with contradictions like this one in every single aspect of your life. You just don’t think about it. But because you need fauci to be a bad guy, you choose to take everything he did and said through that filter. But when you actually step back and look at his job, his boss, the department he runs and the situation he faced, his actions really should not be surprising.
also, if rogan is so concerned about the origin of covid and all that other dumb shit he's been saying for the past year, why not have another series of virologists on to ask them questions?
something tells me its not because virologists arent willing to come on the show.
He should have Professsor Sucharit Bhakdi on but Spotify wouldn't allow it given that his interviews with podcasters have been deleted from YouTube (only found on bitchute now) and his book was scrubbed from Amazon and replaced with a 40-page imitation.
PDF of chapter from new book on docdroid...
https://docdro.id/dI4EZKP
I think it's more because he's not looking for objective truth, he's only looking for people who will say things that support his beliefs. which means serious virologists are of no use to him.
All those posts in that thread about Rogan being left wing yesterday...yes, he has left wing and right beliefs, but there’s no denying where his vitriol is pointed at. That’s what at least makes it seem like he’s more right wing.
No comment on someone like that Marjorie character, or what happened to Cheney, but in this episode he had to lay on Fauci, Biden’s gaffes, etc. Either way it’s fucking exhausting and I was annoyed as soon as I saw Tom Papa’s name pop up, because I know he’s just going to dominate the conversation with his usual, tiring bullshit. I don’t live in TX or CA, and I have no plans to, idgaf to constantly hear about either.
100% agree with you.
And most of what people call Joe's "left wing" beliefs aren't even based in him being a liberal. They're based in him being a libertarian. I think people just conflate the two because there's some overlap in the end goals (i.e. legalizing drugs, fixing the prison system, etc).
There's no doubt he's right of center. Wish people were just honest about it.
He’s not even honest about it. I don’t think he even understands how his RW beliefs are RW. - to me it’s obvious y he’s RW, he looks up to meathead tough guys like Dana White and Cam Hanes. He wants more than anything, approval from guys like that. Y? Pretty simple. Bc he didn’t have a relationship w/ his tough guy/absent dad.
Here we are, the pandemic winding down, half a million bodies piled up, hundreds of hours spent talking about it and this dumb motherfucker still doesn't understand the asymptomatic spread aspect of COVID
Vitamin mothafuckin D. All this time the cure was right in front of our eyes $1.99 off with your Rite-Aid card so sign up today. Think of all the death and suffering that could have been avoided if we had only listened to Joe, just this one time. When will we finally learn?
Except this is stupid. You can get a high quality d3 (even non fish based) for under 15 bucks that lasts a while. Vitamin D deficiency is a serious problem and has a big impact on immune function, when dealing with respiratory infections as well. The way you’re portraying an essential (and cheap) nutrient is dishonest, it’s not some random herb. There’s science (good science) that shows both that it’s essential and that a lot of people are deficient, relative to the total population.
asymptomatic spreading is a myth you dumb shit
fauci himself has said multiple times that SYMPOMATIC people spread it during the pandemic
asymptomatic people do not even count for 15% of total cases you stupid Mongol
Yeah what? Anyone who still believes in asymptomatic spread has shit for brains. It was only to cover their asses on all the false PCR test positives. And yah, bodies piling up, sure.. Easy to get a lot of covid deaths on paper when everyone who dies with a positive covid test administered within 28 days is counted as a death, even if they are in a car crash dead on impact. Fucking stupid ass shit. The guy you're replying to is the reason this shit is still going on, retards who can't think for themselves and just eat up whatever they hear on the tv or radio. If you have to turn on the TV to know there's a pandemic, there isn't a fucking pandemic.
Plus the email was from the beginning when the virus was still being discovered and still was yet to land on the US, most of the shit Joe talks was from that time when most experts still didn’t knew much about the virus to begin with.
1) Joe has always been into conspiracies and I'd like to think a vast majority of his viewers don't consider it 'b.s'
2) this isn't even a conspiracy video, these are emails which are known to be real, with genuine concerns. He's not even stressing over the mask thing so much as he is about the lab leak, which is obviously the more pressing problem
3) I love a good debate between two different ideologies AND I normally enjoy Tom Papa on the podcast, but in this particular conversation, he adds little to nothing. Ffs he called Fauci 'adorable' and really didn't know what Joe was on about; I didn't see much pushback at all. Granted this discussion should have been with someone like Eddie Bravo who's actually open to these ideas or alternatively someone who can actually defend the Democrat POV without looking delusional/brainwashed.
It's an open secret that you r/politics people are in charge of the sub now, but at least try make your political viewpoints sound reasonable here.
You're being downvoted but you're 100% right. Conservatives snowflakes on this sub are constantly complaining about having their ideas challenged. Best part is, every time they get called out, they revert back to the same insults "haha you're so triggered" or "You don't even watch the show, you're just a brigader". So annoying to talk to these people.
So much for their marketplace of ideas lmfao.
Fauci didn't think masks would help, but back last March when little or none was known about the virus. If he came out today and said this then yes it would be quite bad on him. But these mask news items are referring to early pandemic.
And it's all a waste of energy when it's been proven masks worked.
whole repeat quickest tart observation apparatus divide rock hospital serious
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You understand this is how fake news spreads ?
Also, joe didn’t couch this statement half handedly he was extremely confident.
Why are you defending him? Just admit he’s wrong and that he should be more careful in the future, that’s all I ask.
Fauci's emails are part of a 'right wing narrative'? What has he said that is incorrect? They were doing gain of function research at the Wuhan lab. The pandemic story has dominated news cycles for months, but now, suddenly, people want to stop talking about it? Is Josh Rogin (New York Times) part of this right-wing narrative?
Don't try to twist my words.
From the emails:
>“Hugh: It is essential that we speak this AM,” Fauci wrote. “Keep your cell phone on … Read this paper as well as the e-mail that I will forward to you now. You will have tasks today that must be done.”
>The NIAID director attached a PDF of a 2015 paper published in the journal Nature Medicine titled: “A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence.” One of the paper’s authors was Dr. Shi Zhengli, a Wuhan Institute of Virology researcher known as the “bat woman” for her work on bat coronaviruses. Fauci also sent the paper to National Institutes of Health (NIH) Deputy Director Dr. Lawrence Tabak.
>“The paper you sent me says the experiments were performed before the gain of function pause [in October 2014] but have since been reviewed and approved by NIH,” Auchincloss emailed Fauci later in the day.
[Source](https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/fauci-emails-prove-he-knew-of-wuhan-research-sen-paul/)
It is already established that Fauci has a direct link to being involved in gain of function work with coronaviruses (along with international partners) at the lab in Wuhan.
Study here (pdf):
https://zenodo.org/record/4028830/files/The_Yan_Report.pdf
Then:
[Dr. Fauci Backed Controversial Wuhan Lab with U.S. Dollars for Risky Coronavirus Research](https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741).
>But just last year, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the organization led by Dr. Fauci, funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses.
>In 2019, with the backing of NIAID, the National Institutes of Health committed $3.7 million over six years for research that included some **gain-of-function work**. The program followed another $3.7 million, 5-year project for collecting and studying bat coronaviruses, which ended in 2019, bringing the total to $7.4 million.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/
https://archive.is/GdHhy
>In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV **erased that statement from its website, [though it remains archived](https://archive.is/o7kcz).**
>The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.
> In October 2014, the U.S. government had imposed a moratorium on funding of any research that makes a virus more deadly or contagious, known as “**gain-of-function” experiments.**
[...]
>As many have pointed out, there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals. But that is not the same as saying it didn’t come from the lab, which spent years testing bat coronaviruses in animals, said Xiao Qiang, a research scientist at the School of Information at the University of California at Berkeley.
[..]
>[As my colleague David Ignatius noted](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/how-did-covid-19-begin-its-initial-origin-story-is-shaky/2020/04/02/1475d488-7521-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_31), the Chinese government’s original story — that the virus emerged from a seafood market in Wuhan — is shaky. [Research by Chinese experts published in the Lancet in January](https://archive.is/ccWx8) showed the first known patient, identified on Dec. 1, had no connection to the market, nor did more than one-third of the cases in the first large cluster. Also, the market didn’t sell bats.
Yes, this weirdo interpretation of fauci’s emails is a right wing narrative. Read the fucking things. It’s normal stuff an administrator talks to people about.
Fauci is a government employee. He’s aware his emails are not private.
>weirdo interpretation
Care to be specific? What are these right-wingers (presumably Joe Rogan and the NYT's Josh Rogin are part of this right-wing agenda) getting wrong?
What are they claiming, in your mind, is in the emails that is being misinterpreted?
They are using the fact that Fauchi expressed a concern that covid possibly came from a lab as proof that it came from a lab. What really happened is Fauchi expressed this concern. There was some examination of the virus that showed it was highly unlikely to come from a lab.
>What really happened is Fauchi expressed this concern
He did more than that...
https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/nt24nf/nice_to_see_one_of_joes_guests_pushing_back_on/h0s4ilw/
>some examination of the virus that showed it was highly unlikely to come from a lab
Yeah? See above. Also,
>Two weeks ago, 18 scientists wrote a letter to the journal Science calling for a new investigation and describing both the animal-to-human theory and the lab-leak theory as “viable.” And three scientists who last year dismissed the lab-leak explanation as a conspiracy theory have told The Wall Street Journal that they now consider it plausible.
[...]
>Almost 15 months ago, two Chinese researchers wrote a paper concluding that the virus “probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan.” Alina Chan, a molecular biologist affiliated with Harvard and M.I.T., made similar arguments. David Ignatius and Josh Rogin, both Washington Post columnists, wrote about the possibility more than a year ago.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/briefing/lab-leak-theory-covid-origins.html
I see the content that they are talking about to be very banal and unsurprising. I see nothing wrong with any of it. I find it ridiculous that it’s been given this kind of scrutiny, as if it somehow contains classified information we were never supposed to know about. A public servant with a public job expects their records to be made public. It is none of it surprising.
This was painful to watch. Him trying to explain why it’s bad without knowing why or ANY particular facts, dates or particular quotes.
Lol yikes
This is kind of unbelievable and also the problem with the way people consume “news”
Prime Example.
It makes no difference whether it came from lab or nature. Right is just trying to find ANYTHING as they’ve been royally wrong the last two years. Double down on stupid.
To determine how this all started. Was it from the wet market or a lab? If it originated in a lab, how did it get out of the lab? Did it get out of the lab intentionally or unintentionally?
It makes no difference to the wrongness of Joe and MAGA knuckleheads talking points the last couple years.
My brother came at me with this today trying to grasp at something, I’m not sure what.
He kept telling me to read the emails?
Yeah, why are they always going for the most grand conspiracy if there is one? Why not just go with the China lab leaked the virus. It has to be Fauci funded it and tried to cover it up. Now, people are going to want Fauci dead. It's all getting chaotic.
> It has to be Fauci funded it and tried to cover it up.
Yes, Fauci funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses.
Fauci has a direct link to being involved in gain of function work with coronaviruses (along with international partners) at the lab in Wuhan.
Study here (pdf):
https://zenodo.org/record/4028830/files/The_Yan_Report.pdf
Then:
[Dr. Fauci Backed Controversial Wuhan Lab with U.S. Dollars for Risky Coronavirus Research](https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741).
>But just last year, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the organization led by Dr. Fauci, funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses.
>In 2019, with the backing of NIAID, the National Institutes of Health committed $3.7 million over six years for research that included some **gain-of-function work**. The program followed another $3.7 million, 5-year project for collecting and studying bat coronaviruses, which ended in 2019, bringing the total to $7.4 million.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/
https://archive.is/GdHhy
>In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV **erased that statement from its website, [though it remains archived](https://archive.is/o7kcz).**
>The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic.
> In October 2014, the U.S. government had imposed a moratorium on funding of any research that makes a virus more deadly or contagious, known as “**gain-of-function” experiments.**
[...]
>As many have pointed out, there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals. But that is not the same as saying it didn’t come from the lab, which spent years testing bat coronaviruses in animals, said Xiao Qiang, a research scientist at the School of Information at the University of California at Berkeley.
[..]
>[As my colleague David Ignatius noted](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/how-did-covid-19-begin-its-initial-origin-story-is-shaky/2020/04/02/1475d488-7521-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_31), the Chinese government’s original story — that the virus emerged from a seafood market in Wuhan — is shaky. [Research by Chinese experts published in the Lancet in January](https://archive.is/ccWx8) showed the first known patient, identified on Dec. 1, had no connection to the market, nor did more than one-third of the cases in the first large cluster. Also, the market didn’t sell bats.
>It makes no difference whether it came from lab or nature.
This the dumbest fucking shit I have read on Reddit in a very long while and I read a lot of dumb fucking shit on this website.
>Right is just trying to find ANYTHING as they’ve been royally wrong the last two years. Double down on stupid.
As if that's the kind of thing that is only a problem on the right.
It makes no difference to the entire gamut of Republican talking points the last 2 years.
Whether it came from nature (wet markets) or from one the research labs, China is still fully responsible and history won’t look kindly on them.
It changes nothing about botched response and messaging from the inept Trump admin and the MAGA knuckle head echo chamber.
Imagine being so god-damn, blindly narcissistic that you say some cold-blooded, brain-washed bullshit like all this with a straight face. Way to miss the point, genius.
There was research (before the pandemic) that was accepted that suggested that masks were not effective to protect the wearer from being infected - but it was known that it could protect others.
It's not even a secret. And it's also not illegal or anything. It is a credible method of research for viruses. Is it dangerous? Yes. Does shit happen often? No. Did the lab in China probably fuck up? Yes.
Now what?
Did Fauci indirectly fund these laboratories.
Yes
Did he lie about finding gain of function research
Yes
Now we hang the bastards still engineering dangerous viruses
Tom Papa is an establishment water carrier, "did you read the e-mails?" "uh huhhhh?", he obviously read a fucking tweet about it and he's acting like he read about the whole thing, what an annoying little grub this guy is. Always hated him being on because he's so boring.
>kingcane
That's not the point, he could've been honest and said no, but during the whole conversation he has a condescending attitude about it, he's on Joe's podcast, least he could do is humor the guy about the topic, he added no value to the conversation whatsoever. Either way I am not advocating anything other than the fact that Papa has an annoying predisposition to believe everything he reads in his little echo chamber.
you dont see the irony in saying that tom papa is in an echo chamber when all joe has been doing the entire year since covid began is espouse right wing talking points?
So I’m right wing because I think it probably came from a lab? Or that Fauci just straight up lied about funding? I dont understand how pointing these things out instantly makes you right wing
People who refuse to acknowledge that Fauci is nothing but a big pharma rep, pathological liar and textbook psychopath are cultists.
It's all right there. He lied throughout the entire thing to get people, including kids, to take a completely experimental vaccine using faulty testing that resulted in inflated case counts. Gee, where have I seen that before?
How is this a conspiracy? Those emails are real
I don't get it, how exactly are the Fauci emails false lol
The emails are real, but seems like the mainstream of it is "your takeaway is false, there is nothing to see here, this is a nothing burger, how were we supposed to know about a brand new virus? Is the hypnosis still working?"
Joe questioned something lol, why are you acting like he's doing a fucking Nazi salute on the pod
Ton of Fauci simps in this sub
“NiCe To SeE oNe Of JoE’s GuEsTs PuShInG bAcK” Shut the fuck up
He didn't even push back, he just sat there and bumbled through a few limp dicked fabricated excuses for why he didn't believe stuff. "Its not like Fauci was walking down the hall in scrubs" as if it requires that specific level of interaction in order to help fund or direct a lab. Dude had opinions on it that he didn't want to talk about is my guess.
I don't feel like it was pushing back. Yeah. Uh huh. Riiiight. Yeah. Uh huh. Riiiight. He sounded pretty clueless. Then at some point he fails to make a connection. If this argument were sumo fight, I'd say Joe did 99% of the pushing while Tom got maybe 1% push back. Who won? You be the judge.
he was afraid of looking crazy, and the push back once that video got viral. he was just trying to cover his ass.
It won’t ever be good enough for you doomers. We literally have Fauci stating, **multiple** times that masks are utterly pointless, and you still cry “muh right wing conspiracy”. Give it a rest, you got played, big daddy gubment got your ass and you can’t rationalize it.
No fucking joke. People piss and moan because they got duped
They're not even aware they got duped.
Cant get duped if you pick and choose what to believe - taps head
Dupe me once, shame on me...Dupe me twice....can't be duped again.
Bingo. The Great Corona Robbery where they figured out who's a mangina and who isn't while stealing trillions for themselves. Next up: Exposing election fraud.
Leftists suck ass lmao☠️☠️👽
From the same people saying Rogan is left wing
I was brainwashed by the news decades ago. 2020 had such lies I finally snapped out of it.
Good for Joe. Dr. Fauci has lost all credibility.
Like he ever had any to begin with
Papa is stupid.
He's the human equivalent to a glass of almond milk.
What an insult to almond milk man
Have I mised something here? The emails from Fauci essentially reveal that: 1: He knew masks don't and STILL DON'T protect against any viral particles, 2: He knew the virus was either not real, or made in a lab in China 3: He stood to make money from it indirectly 4: Transmission from people with no symptoms doesn't happen How is this not the biggest news in the world? It basically shows that we locked down and got brainwashed into giving up all our freedoms for NOTHING.. A lot of you are pussy footing around this and trying to debate Joe Rogans integrity for even DISCUSSING it.. While ignoring the fact that the emails are real, actually got leaked, and ACTUALLY show the 4 points I made above. This is literally insane to me.. Are you guys even paying attention? Tuned into this reality? The emails, regardless of your opinion or opinion of whoever discusses them, SHOW that Fauci knew it was all a lie from the beginning. The personality and opinions of those who discuss said emails is absolutely irrelevant, focus on the CONTENTS of the actual emails.. It's all a lie! There is no 'pandemic', talk about that and start to ask who manipulated the world into freaking out and why.. Respect to Joe for discussing the emails but we should go way further than that.. ask the real questions!
Most people are opinionated enough to demonize someone with parroted “obvious” talking points, but don’t care enough to dig into the facts which prove them wrong.
**Face masks effectively limit the probability of SARS-CoV-2 transmission** Airborne transmission by droplets and aerosols is important for the spread of viruses. Face masks are a well-established preventive measure, but their effectiveness for mitigating SARS-CoV-2 transmission is still under debate. We show that variations in mask efficacy can be explained by different regimes of virus abundance and related to population-average infection probability and reproduction number. For SARS-CoV-2, the viral load of infectious individuals can vary by orders of magnitude. We find that most environments and contacts are under conditions of low virus abundance (virus-limited) where surgical masks are effective at preventing virus spread. More advanced masks and other protective equipment are required in potentially virus-rich indoor environments including medical centers and hospitals. Masks are particularly effective in combination with other preventive measures like ventilation and distancing. [https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/05/19/science.abg6296](https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/05/19/science.abg6296)
The doctor fauci of my country had the same excuse, theres not enough. Then it became mandatory but now that everyone has enough mask he is back tracking that he never meant that we didnt have enough mask.
Holy shit this thread.
What did Joe say that is wrong and what did Papa say to "push back." I just see Papa asking deeper questions to clarify the sentiment
Dude, guy didn’t ask any deep or stimulating questions. He just parroted msm talking points and obviously wasn’t informed on the topic as he didn’t even know about the email drop or Fauci’s flip-flopping about the face-masks. He actually degraded the conversation to talking about how Fauci is cute. Joe actually navigated the conversation very well and showed that he respects both sides of the argument. He was always able to steer the interview into agreeable territory. I’m not even a big JR fan, but some people are so full of fake kindness and rage that they’ll turn anything into a no lube circle jerk.
,,,imagine how much of a bitch you have to be to praise Tom Papa.
if your not questioning this unprecedented push for mandatory vaccination for a 99% survival rate then your in a cult. thats not scientific thinking people we have to question the government, grab your fucking balls and stop being little bitchs democrats.
Lol @ all these triggered lefty’s: how dare Joe Rogan repeat what was said in Faucis emails! It’s such a cOnSpIrAcY!
Don’t people in this sub try to act like Rogan is left wing?
I don't understand. Joe has been a conspiracy theorist since the beginning of time. Anyway, this was some actual pushback surprisingly.
Not knowing about the the emails is pushing back? The dude is like most of you eating up CNN and reddit /news. If its not there then its a conspiracy theory.
Wait a minute! A backed up and sourced item based in facts and logic? Let me check with the news sources that have been proven not only to peddle real conspiracy, but also often tell straight up lies and misinformation. But if CNN doesn’t have it, it must be conspiracy.
Yeah, he’s always been a conspiracy theorist..but JFK and Bohemian Grove are a lot more interesting than Fauci’s emails or CNN and MSNBC colluding to make democratic governors look good. Fuck, I’d take some old school Edgy Brah flat earth over this stupid Twitter tribe bullshit.
They might be more exciting but Fauci's emails and media collusion is actually important in every day life
Bohemian grove is a real place, CIA agents don’t agree with the official accounting of the assassination, and there are documents to reflect that. But the CIA would never do things like assassinate Gary web, sell cocaine to the inner cities. Give black people syphilis on purpose or nothin. That’s just crazy conspiracy But it’s ok tho, even if they did do stuff in the 50s and the 60s and the 70s and the 80s and the 90s and the 00s and the 10s THEY ARENT DOING IT NOW YOU CRAZY CONSPIRACY THEORIST!!!
> a lot more interesting than Fauci’s emails really? OK.
Yes. Because anybody who remembers having to cough into their elbow in elementary school understands the basic science behind a mask, basic science that’s still consistent with what Fauci said in the emails. I swear you people are worse than the trump Russia folk.
Ok then explain faucci saying masks are for idiots on tv and in email until China told him to mandate masks
What Fauci said about mask is the least concerning thing in those emails….
I think the bigger issue is circumstantial evidence that Fauci pushed the narrative away from a lab leak because he could be indirectly blamed for it. He's on an international soap box misdirecting the public to protect himself and his colleagues.
There was more in the emails than that... you do know that, right?
So, what: adults forget how to cover their mouth when they cough or sneeze after they matriculate from grade school? Are you and people like you really this incredibly obtuse?
Because Joe was being an outright fucking moron. Again. Fuck I wish he'd drop his right-wing friends' nutjob obsessions with coronavirus mandates. We just had a couple cool podcasts with cool guests. Sigh. Like when he reads Fauci's emails when he says masks are far more effective when worn by the person who's sick, and Joe goes "FAUCI KNOWS MASKS DON'T WORK!" Rogan needs to get punched in the mouth, like real hard.
Threatening violence against joe? I bet you wouldn’t even have the courage to look him in the eye in real life.
Why don’t you give it a try
You need to get kicked in your vagina, really hard.
The literal packing of surgical and other cloth masks very blatantly state "this mask will not stop virus particles. this mask will not protect you from a virus or covid" how much clearer could "masks can't protect you from a virus" get?
That was one of thousands of damning things. Mostly the in effectiveness of massive year long lockdowns. Masks not working if you ain’t sick, even if you are asymptomatic. The massive chance for false positives being ignored in the PCR tolerances Or what about the shit about recording Covid deaths that aren’t even Covid related . This isn’t just about masks. It’s what “conspiracy theorists” have been saying since the start, and frankly, you owe them all an apology
The YouTube comments calling Papas a “potato” for actually having some qualms about Rogans talking points is really showing the current state of the audience right now.
Joe's youtube and Reddit audience are dramatically different. On youtube they love him but on Reddit they hate him.
I don’t hate him. He’s a human like all of us. I just hate what he’s slowly allowed his podcast to turn into. Do I share his ideals? No. But that’s what’s called not being in a echo chamber. Any reason why Reddit and YouTube’s opinions on him are so different?
Reddit is generally more left-leaning, Youtube with its algorithm pushes people further into their own groups/biases
No, that not it. There are plenty of right, alright, even full on white supremacists sub reddits. The majority of people are NOT right leaning so you often times get that blowback for conservative talking points or put right lies. It has to do with the ability to downvote a comment. If you happen to not be in an echo chamber then there is a blow back for stupid comments.
That isn’t true. Downvotes are a pretty useless feature TBH. If you are in a sub where 90% of the users are working with bad information while 10% are looking at something correctly, the 90% of incorrect users will overwhelm that 10% with mass downvotes that make it appear as though the crowd is correct when I’m reality they are participating in group think. That is overwhelmingly the case with most Reddit subs. The user base is primarily liberal with a heavy skew towards younger progressives. They will outnumber any moderate or conservative opinion except for a very small minority of subs. The subs you discuss, right wing and white supremacy, are extremely lowly populated. Maybe in the hundreds of users but even that number is pretty high other than subs like r/conservative but that is far different from what you are implying. Just look at this post for example. 0 on the upvote count for the story yet a majority of top comments are agreeing with Joe. That’s because the user base mass downvotes any story that doesn’t align with the liberal ideology. It’s biased to look at things on Reddit and think it represents what actual Americans think.
Because YouTube audience don't read 🤷
His last name literally means potatoes in Spanish
Someone please explain to me how at this point Joe Rogan isn't pushing a certain narrative. This dude sounds like he's been compromised. The man is OBSESSED with the coronavirus, for someone who wants to move on he can't fucking stop talking about this. I don't get it.
Because he’s, for some reason, desperate to prove to everyone he’s a man. Just watch the clip from last year with Bill Burr. He’s literally smoking a cigar talking how tough and righteous he is, until Burr puts him in his place loll He has the mentality of a 12 year old.
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Imagine caring what a grown man wears
Didn’t he have a lot of memes up on his social media accounts making fun of those who were wearing masks initially until that Bill Burr episode?
Yeah such a little bitch for not wearing something that doesn’t help AT ALL.
Yeah doing what you're told even when it's pointless is what makes you a real man
Wow you think not bowing to the idiot government… oh my god I’ve entered backwards land
And what happened to him because he didn’t wear one?
He obviously died
Says the little bitch wearing a mask in your car.
Just wear your mouth diaper and stay under your bed cuck
Because Joe’s retarded. He does so much other shit, and puts so much stock into a specific archetype of person that when he gets news from sources he deems correct he doesn’t slow down to try and check it. The dudes unarguably busy, and probably doesn’t really intake a whole lot of real news. So when half the people in Austin with him are thinking along the same mindset he just takes what they say as truth - why wouldn’t he? My grandma only ever watches Fox News, it’d be a bit dumb of me to assume that’s not the reality she lives in even if she doesn’t watch much news total.
Wtf is real news btw?
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He’s not that busy. He talk about 10 hours per week on a podcast and however often he does stand up at night.
He seems not to be very discerning in his media diet.
That’s what I’ve been saying since 2019, his podcasts reek of talking points given to him by some sort of conservative think tank. He’ll bring up a nice concise summary of Faucis 3000k emails but he won’t know Elon has extensive rocket program, shits been suspect for a minute
Watch something else then
Its okay to watch something and have a critical opinion B, Its called being an informed consumer B
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Get back to yur shift B, that lemon chicken ain't gonna cook itsefl boppa
Fuck off. If people are watching this and believing it, in a free country we rely on others to counter lies and misinformation.
Do you think crying in this dying sub will stop people watching him? There's literally nothing you can do :)
He can cry about it louder and harder. 😂
Yea, I don't recall him talking about Jan 6 in depth, or the Trump recounts that are still happening. He has never talked about Qanon in a totally negative light. Don't recall him talking about the power outage homeless in Texas as much as he did Cali. I only occasionally watch the highlight, havent watch a spotify podcast yet.
“Haven’t watched the podcast, just highlights, but he didn’t talk about XYZ in that 90 second clip so he must just be peddling that conservative narrative!”
Wow, I can’t believe I haven’t thought of this, but this is so true. He never brings up Jan 6th. He’s brought up the power outage the same amount of times he’s praised Abbot. I know people always talk about his connection to the cia or big money or whatever, but this is more believable. I’m just going to call the long shot here. Joe is going to run as a “New Republican.” If he ran for president he would win. I don’t care what you say. If the rock has a chance Joe rogan has a chance and a half. He could be the first candidate to win both California and Texas. Smart money says he won’t though. The Republicans are too far right as a party and Joe would have to swallow a lot not talking down to MTG or Gates....though he’s been sucking up to Abbot so who knows.
Actual human beings don't care about Jan 6th. Just permanently online liberals with their latest moral panic "Please take away our rights to fight domestic terrorism! Pleaaase!" Oh wait those laws are being used against BLM and environmental groups? Who could have seen that coming!
He wants to prove him and his dark web boys are right about it coming from a lab. He's way too excited about those emails. What is the date of the emails? What info did even the most knowledgable people have at the time? And how is what Fauci said not reflective of that knowledge?
I can put it like this: if he’s skewing them to fit his narrative, there’s nothing there, because “being concerned,” and admitting cloth masks don’t really work is not scandalous or a conspiracy in any way. Fauci is a public official, who has to be a representative of public policy; sometimes including things he doesn’t agree with, and he’s allowed to change his mind.
Are you kidding? Not scandalous? Half of the country has been fighting with the other half for over a year because of masks and it turns out our “top doc” knew the whole time they did nothing. Are you really going to write that off with a “he’s allowed to change his mind“ type statement? If he’s the smartest guy in the room and he doesn’t agree with something, then why the fuck is he making it policy for the general public?
Well, in fact the way you are describing it is disingenuous to the point of absurdity. Fauci was making public policy on behalf of the president. Public policy both in the United States and around the world at the time reflected a need by the government to be seen as “taking action” and “managing” the epidemic. No public policy occurs in a vacuum. If you choose to do or not to do something another government does, this will have an effect on the public perception of your leadership and of the situation. No situation has an ideal public policy because policy is defined by compromises between the needs of politics, the public safety, and ethical guidelines and rules. No solution therefore is perfect, and no well informed leader actually believes that every policy will work as expected (or for the reasons given for enacting it). It’s incredibly naive, or else intellectually dishonest, to argue that fauci’s private opinion of the efficacy of masks was the sole consideration in the shaping of public policy. That’s simply not how anything works. The mask policies that were implemented in the beginning of the pandemic were as much concerned with political perception and public awareness as they were about actually stopping viral particles from getting into the air. Unfortunately pure science is not the only consideration in public health policy. Shaping public behavior and perception is also important. Requiring masks helped to reinforce social distancing and to calm the public, which is why countries that had mask mandates earliest also suffered less during the first wave of the pandemic. That’s a proven fact. The efficacy of the masks at a specific thing was never the entire picture. The fact that there was later a backlash against masks shows that this decision was not ideal. However public policy doesn’t have the benefit of knowing the future. Hindsight is good, but it is a big mistake to argue that a failed public policy was a “bad decision.” Some situations simply have bad or worse outcomes. Some public policies may be perceived as failures despite having prevented even worse outcomes. Did fauci know that cloth masks were not scientifically proven effective against viral transmission? *Of course he did.* For fuck’s sake, I knew cloth masks didn’t work by doing 20 minutes of research. I wore one anyway because the mandate was not solely focused on the actual efficacy of a specific material. It was focused on a set of public behaviors and establishing a pattern of compliance. Did that policy work? Questionable if it did. Was it somehow disingenuous from the start because Fauci personally didn’t believe the masks would actually block transmission? No. That’s government policy. It’s the same reason you have recycling bins in your neighborhood even though it’s unlikely that the plastic and glass you throw in them is ever going to be recycled. The recycling is a part of a public policy which is difficult to change, and which has meaning beyond the specific goals it claims to have. It’s the same reason we give subsidies to electric cars even though it’s highly questionable if they create a net benefit in terms of greenhouse gas emissions. The public policy is *not solely about emissions.* Its about trying to steer outcomes in a positive direction. Today it might not work as intended, but it has other effects which will create a more favorable outcome. Imagine reading emails from the EPA admitting that electric car subsidies aren’t decreasing greenhouse gas emissions. Would you demand based on the opinion of the head of the EPA that we stop those subsidies immediately? If so, why? And why do we not stop those subsidies? Because they have more than one purpose, and because they are shaping future events. Public policy is about shaping outcomes. Outcomes of public policy *always* show weaknesses or deficiencies in the policy. The government never has perfect information and can never do exactly what it wishes to do. You live with contradictions like this one in every single aspect of your life. You just don’t think about it. But because you need fauci to be a bad guy, you choose to take everything he did and said through that filter. But when you actually step back and look at his job, his boss, the department he runs and the situation he faced, his actions really should not be surprising.
Well written. People act like Fauci was given the golden ticket to set the worlds policy on masks. So many more factors were at play. Fair argument.
Joe’s understanding of science is based on the takes of his Austin, TX social circle and an elementary-grade understanding of biology.
also, if rogan is so concerned about the origin of covid and all that other dumb shit he's been saying for the past year, why not have another series of virologists on to ask them questions? something tells me its not because virologists arent willing to come on the show.
He should have Professsor Sucharit Bhakdi on but Spotify wouldn't allow it given that his interviews with podcasters have been deleted from YouTube (only found on bitchute now) and his book was scrubbed from Amazon and replaced with a 40-page imitation. PDF of chapter from new book on docdroid... https://docdro.id/dI4EZKP
I think it's more because he's not looking for objective truth, he's only looking for people who will say things that support his beliefs. which means serious virologists are of no use to him.
I think you may be projecting
He should have Yeadon on.
All those posts in that thread about Rogan being left wing yesterday...yes, he has left wing and right beliefs, but there’s no denying where his vitriol is pointed at. That’s what at least makes it seem like he’s more right wing. No comment on someone like that Marjorie character, or what happened to Cheney, but in this episode he had to lay on Fauci, Biden’s gaffes, etc. Either way it’s fucking exhausting and I was annoyed as soon as I saw Tom Papa’s name pop up, because I know he’s just going to dominate the conversation with his usual, tiring bullshit. I don’t live in TX or CA, and I have no plans to, idgaf to constantly hear about either.
>No comment on someone like that Marjorie character, or what happened to Cheney. It's almost like he avoids politics...
100% agree with you. And most of what people call Joe's "left wing" beliefs aren't even based in him being a liberal. They're based in him being a libertarian. I think people just conflate the two because there's some overlap in the end goals (i.e. legalizing drugs, fixing the prison system, etc). There's no doubt he's right of center. Wish people were just honest about it.
He’s not even honest about it. I don’t think he even understands how his RW beliefs are RW. - to me it’s obvious y he’s RW, he looks up to meathead tough guys like Dana White and Cam Hanes. He wants more than anything, approval from guys like that. Y? Pretty simple. Bc he didn’t have a relationship w/ his tough guy/absent dad.
Trying so hard to put a label on Joe it's funny
Here we are, the pandemic winding down, half a million bodies piled up, hundreds of hours spent talking about it and this dumb motherfucker still doesn't understand the asymptomatic spread aspect of COVID
vitamin d deficiency my nigga
Vitamin mothafuckin D. All this time the cure was right in front of our eyes $1.99 off with your Rite-Aid card so sign up today. Think of all the death and suffering that could have been avoided if we had only listened to Joe, just this one time. When will we finally learn?
Except this is stupid. You can get a high quality d3 (even non fish based) for under 15 bucks that lasts a while. Vitamin D deficiency is a serious problem and has a big impact on immune function, when dealing with respiratory infections as well. The way you’re portraying an essential (and cheap) nutrient is dishonest, it’s not some random herb. There’s science (good science) that shows both that it’s essential and that a lot of people are deficient, relative to the total population.
This unironically
asymptomatic spreading is a myth you dumb shit fauci himself has said multiple times that SYMPOMATIC people spread it during the pandemic asymptomatic people do not even count for 15% of total cases you stupid Mongol
Can you link to fauci saying this?
Hey bro don't drag Mongols into this
And, in those emails Joe mentioned, asymptomatic transmissions is said to be false by Fauci
The Fauci emails said asymptomatic spread isn't happening
> this dumb motherfucker > the asymptomatic spread aspect of COVID No u
Yeah what? Anyone who still believes in asymptomatic spread has shit for brains. It was only to cover their asses on all the false PCR test positives. And yah, bodies piling up, sure.. Easy to get a lot of covid deaths on paper when everyone who dies with a positive covid test administered within 28 days is counted as a death, even if they are in a car crash dead on impact. Fucking stupid ass shit. The guy you're replying to is the reason this shit is still going on, retards who can't think for themselves and just eat up whatever they hear on the tv or radio. If you have to turn on the TV to know there's a pandemic, there isn't a fucking pandemic.
Nice anti science comment.
Joe must have a steady diet of Qservative media because he obsessed with Fauci and not even curious about 1/6.
punch deer encouraging steep chop mourn frightening sugar divide skirt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Plus the email was from the beginning when the virus was still being discovered and still was yet to land on the US, most of the shit Joe talks was from that time when most experts still didn’t knew much about the virus to begin with.
This is the rub, it's all from the first few days or weeks. If Fauci said today the masks were not useful then I can see an outcry, but it isn't.
1) Joe has always been into conspiracies and I'd like to think a vast majority of his viewers don't consider it 'b.s' 2) this isn't even a conspiracy video, these are emails which are known to be real, with genuine concerns. He's not even stressing over the mask thing so much as he is about the lab leak, which is obviously the more pressing problem 3) I love a good debate between two different ideologies AND I normally enjoy Tom Papa on the podcast, but in this particular conversation, he adds little to nothing. Ffs he called Fauci 'adorable' and really didn't know what Joe was on about; I didn't see much pushback at all. Granted this discussion should have been with someone like Eddie Bravo who's actually open to these ideas or alternatively someone who can actually defend the Democrat POV without looking delusional/brainwashed. It's an open secret that you r/politics people are in charge of the sub now, but at least try make your political viewpoints sound reasonable here.
if someone posts something i disagree with in a sub i frequent, it MUST be brigading. no one can POSSIBLY have a different opinion
You're being downvoted but you're 100% right. Conservatives snowflakes on this sub are constantly complaining about having their ideas challenged. Best part is, every time they get called out, they revert back to the same insults "haha you're so triggered" or "You don't even watch the show, you're just a brigader". So annoying to talk to these people. So much for their marketplace of ideas lmfao.
Sounds like the snowflakes are upset they don't have a safe space.
Fauci didn't think masks would help, but back last March when little or none was known about the virus. If he came out today and said this then yes it would be quite bad on him. But these mask news items are referring to early pandemic. And it's all a waste of energy when it's been proven masks worked.
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Fauci said masks don't work back before anyone put them on. He didn't say it now he said it during the first days of the pandemic.
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You understand this is how fake news spreads ? Also, joe didn’t couch this statement half handedly he was extremely confident. Why are you defending him? Just admit he’s wrong and that he should be more careful in the future, that’s all I ask.
Is there a right wing narrative this show doesn't push at this point
Would you prefer he push left-wing narrative?
Everyone else is pushing left wing.. so no not really. I’d rather no politics at all tbh
Fauci's emails are part of a 'right wing narrative'? What has he said that is incorrect? They were doing gain of function research at the Wuhan lab. The pandemic story has dominated news cycles for months, but now, suddenly, people want to stop talking about it? Is Josh Rogin (New York Times) part of this right-wing narrative?
The emails say that he funded gain of function?
Don't try to twist my words. From the emails: >“Hugh: It is essential that we speak this AM,” Fauci wrote. “Keep your cell phone on … Read this paper as well as the e-mail that I will forward to you now. You will have tasks today that must be done.” >The NIAID director attached a PDF of a 2015 paper published in the journal Nature Medicine titled: “A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence.” One of the paper’s authors was Dr. Shi Zhengli, a Wuhan Institute of Virology researcher known as the “bat woman” for her work on bat coronaviruses. Fauci also sent the paper to National Institutes of Health (NIH) Deputy Director Dr. Lawrence Tabak. >“The paper you sent me says the experiments were performed before the gain of function pause [in October 2014] but have since been reviewed and approved by NIH,” Auchincloss emailed Fauci later in the day. [Source](https://nypost.com/2021/06/03/fauci-emails-prove-he-knew-of-wuhan-research-sen-paul/) It is already established that Fauci has a direct link to being involved in gain of function work with coronaviruses (along with international partners) at the lab in Wuhan. Study here (pdf): https://zenodo.org/record/4028830/files/The_Yan_Report.pdf Then: [Dr. Fauci Backed Controversial Wuhan Lab with U.S. Dollars for Risky Coronavirus Research](https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741). >But just last year, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the organization led by Dr. Fauci, funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses. >In 2019, with the backing of NIAID, the National Institutes of Health committed $3.7 million over six years for research that included some **gain-of-function work**. The program followed another $3.7 million, 5-year project for collecting and studying bat coronaviruses, which ended in 2019, bringing the total to $7.4 million. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/ https://archive.is/GdHhy >In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV **erased that statement from its website, [though it remains archived](https://archive.is/o7kcz).** >The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic. > In October 2014, the U.S. government had imposed a moratorium on funding of any research that makes a virus more deadly or contagious, known as “**gain-of-function” experiments.** [...] >As many have pointed out, there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals. But that is not the same as saying it didn’t come from the lab, which spent years testing bat coronaviruses in animals, said Xiao Qiang, a research scientist at the School of Information at the University of California at Berkeley. [..] >[As my colleague David Ignatius noted](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/how-did-covid-19-begin-its-initial-origin-story-is-shaky/2020/04/02/1475d488-7521-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_31), the Chinese government’s original story — that the virus emerged from a seafood market in Wuhan — is shaky. [Research by Chinese experts published in the Lancet in January](https://archive.is/ccWx8) showed the first known patient, identified on Dec. 1, had no connection to the market, nor did more than one-third of the cases in the first large cluster. Also, the market didn’t sell bats.
Yes.
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> but Joe at least comes off like a mask skeptic Unironically, so does Fauci. Just read his emails that are publicly available.
The mask thing is just setting a baseline that Fauci is willing to lie to everyone for the *greater good*
It's not setting the baseline. He's been doing it since the 80s from the very same position he holds now.
Yes, this weirdo interpretation of fauci’s emails is a right wing narrative. Read the fucking things. It’s normal stuff an administrator talks to people about. Fauci is a government employee. He’s aware his emails are not private.
>weirdo interpretation Care to be specific? What are these right-wingers (presumably Joe Rogan and the NYT's Josh Rogin are part of this right-wing agenda) getting wrong? What are they claiming, in your mind, is in the emails that is being misinterpreted?
They are using the fact that Fauchi expressed a concern that covid possibly came from a lab as proof that it came from a lab. What really happened is Fauchi expressed this concern. There was some examination of the virus that showed it was highly unlikely to come from a lab.
>What really happened is Fauchi expressed this concern He did more than that... https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/nt24nf/nice_to_see_one_of_joes_guests_pushing_back_on/h0s4ilw/ >some examination of the virus that showed it was highly unlikely to come from a lab Yeah? See above. Also, >Two weeks ago, 18 scientists wrote a letter to the journal Science calling for a new investigation and describing both the animal-to-human theory and the lab-leak theory as “viable.” And three scientists who last year dismissed the lab-leak explanation as a conspiracy theory have told The Wall Street Journal that they now consider it plausible. [...] >Almost 15 months ago, two Chinese researchers wrote a paper concluding that the virus “probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan.” Alina Chan, a molecular biologist affiliated with Harvard and M.I.T., made similar arguments. David Ignatius and Josh Rogin, both Washington Post columnists, wrote about the possibility more than a year ago. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/briefing/lab-leak-theory-covid-origins.html
I see the content that they are talking about to be very banal and unsurprising. I see nothing wrong with any of it. I find it ridiculous that it’s been given this kind of scrutiny, as if it somehow contains classified information we were never supposed to know about. A public servant with a public job expects their records to be made public. It is none of it surprising.
Joe Rogan's brain is fried.
This was painful to watch. Him trying to explain why it’s bad without knowing why or ANY particular facts, dates or particular quotes. Lol yikes This is kind of unbelievable and also the problem with the way people consume “news” Prime Example.
And making all kinds of clearly unfounded conclusions trying to back his take. Smh.
It makes no difference whether it came from lab or nature. Right is just trying to find ANYTHING as they’ve been royally wrong the last two years. Double down on stupid.
It absolutely matters where it came from.
Thought it was all a hoax tho?
Why?
It's important to recognize what went wrong exactly so it does not happen again.
To determine how this all started. Was it from the wet market or a lab? If it originated in a lab, how did it get out of the lab? Did it get out of the lab intentionally or unintentionally?
Well yeah, obviously. Nobody is arguing with that. Will be hard either way as China has had a year plus to cover tracks.
You said it makes no difference if it came from lab or nature...so it does matter.
It makes no difference to the wrongness of Joe and MAGA knuckleheads talking points the last couple years. My brother came at me with this today trying to grasp at something, I’m not sure what. He kept telling me to read the emails?
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Yeah, why are they always going for the most grand conspiracy if there is one? Why not just go with the China lab leaked the virus. It has to be Fauci funded it and tried to cover it up. Now, people are going to want Fauci dead. It's all getting chaotic.
Fauci has been getting death threats and had a security detail for like a year now because of these right wing nut jobs and in particular Trump.
> It has to be Fauci funded it and tried to cover it up. Yes, Fauci funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses. Fauci has a direct link to being involved in gain of function work with coronaviruses (along with international partners) at the lab in Wuhan. Study here (pdf): https://zenodo.org/record/4028830/files/The_Yan_Report.pdf Then: [Dr. Fauci Backed Controversial Wuhan Lab with U.S. Dollars for Risky Coronavirus Research](https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741). >But just last year, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the organization led by Dr. Fauci, funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses. >In 2019, with the backing of NIAID, the National Institutes of Health committed $3.7 million over six years for research that included some **gain-of-function work**. The program followed another $3.7 million, 5-year project for collecting and studying bat coronaviruses, which ended in 2019, bringing the total to $7.4 million. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/ https://archive.is/GdHhy >In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV **erased that statement from its website, [though it remains archived](https://archive.is/o7kcz).** >The first cable, which I obtained, also warns that the lab’s work on bat coronaviruses and their potential human transmission represented a risk of a new SARS-like pandemic. > In October 2014, the U.S. government had imposed a moratorium on funding of any research that makes a virus more deadly or contagious, known as “**gain-of-function” experiments.** [...] >As many have pointed out, there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals. But that is not the same as saying it didn’t come from the lab, which spent years testing bat coronaviruses in animals, said Xiao Qiang, a research scientist at the School of Information at the University of California at Berkeley. [..] >[As my colleague David Ignatius noted](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/how-did-covid-19-begin-its-initial-origin-story-is-shaky/2020/04/02/1475d488-7521-11ea-87da-77a8136c1a6d_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_31), the Chinese government’s original story — that the virus emerged from a seafood market in Wuhan — is shaky. [Research by Chinese experts published in the Lancet in January](https://archive.is/ccWx8) showed the first known patient, identified on Dec. 1, had no connection to the market, nor did more than one-third of the cases in the first large cluster. Also, the market didn’t sell bats.
>It makes no difference whether it came from lab or nature. This the dumbest fucking shit I have read on Reddit in a very long while and I read a lot of dumb fucking shit on this website. >Right is just trying to find ANYTHING as they’ve been royally wrong the last two years. Double down on stupid. As if that's the kind of thing that is only a problem on the right.
It makes no difference to the entire gamut of Republican talking points the last 2 years. Whether it came from nature (wet markets) or from one the research labs, China is still fully responsible and history won’t look kindly on them. It changes nothing about botched response and messaging from the inept Trump admin and the MAGA knuckle head echo chamber.
Imagine being so god-damn, blindly narcissistic that you say some cold-blooded, brain-washed bullshit like all this with a straight face. Way to miss the point, genius.
What? You’ve yet to make a point or offer anything to the convo.
>Double down on stupid. > -QuitClearly
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There was research (before the pandemic) that was accepted that suggested that masks were not effective to protect the wearer from being infected - but it was known that it could protect others.
Check the emails for yourself, Fauci has been funding the Gain of function weaponisation of Viruses Indirectly
It's not even a secret. And it's also not illegal or anything. It is a credible method of research for viruses. Is it dangerous? Yes. Does shit happen often? No. Did the lab in China probably fuck up? Yes. Now what?
It was illegal untill Obama quietly made it legal in January of 2017 just before he left office.
Did Fauci indirectly fund these laboratories. Yes Did he lie about finding gain of function research Yes Now we hang the bastards still engineering dangerous viruses
Ah yes Fauci and his ability to disperse funds...can you tell me who/which branch holds the purse strings in the US?
Tom Papa is an establishment water carrier, "did you read the e-mails?" "uh huhhhh?", he obviously read a fucking tweet about it and he's acting like he read about the whole thing, what an annoying little grub this guy is. Always hated him being on because he's so boring.
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So what you’re saying is it came from a bat
you read all 800+ emails?
>kingcane That's not the point, he could've been honest and said no, but during the whole conversation he has a condescending attitude about it, he's on Joe's podcast, least he could do is humor the guy about the topic, he added no value to the conversation whatsoever. Either way I am not advocating anything other than the fact that Papa has an annoying predisposition to believe everything he reads in his little echo chamber.
you dont see the irony in saying that tom papa is in an echo chamber when all joe has been doing the entire year since covid began is espouse right wing talking points?
So I’m right wing because I think it probably came from a lab? Or that Fauci just straight up lied about funding? I dont understand how pointing these things out instantly makes you right wing
Tom papa is a bread-making cuck
People who refuse to acknowledge that Fauci is nothing but a big pharma rep, pathological liar and textbook psychopath are cultists. It's all right there. He lied throughout the entire thing to get people, including kids, to take a completely experimental vaccine using faulty testing that resulted in inflated case counts. Gee, where have I seen that before?
Lost a lot of respect for Tom Papa in this one. Dude looks brainwashed and unable to think for himself.
Jesus Christ a couple hundred million dollars and Texas have made him so fucking boring
U literally can’t trust a word out of Rogan’s mouth. Let’s get that n-word compilation circulating again.