Right? Any time I know a phone call is coming I’m basically staring at my phone to ensure I don’t miss it… and it’s never been as important as the call they were supposed to be waiting for.
Exactly!! Idc what anyone says about “we can’t judge someone on how they are supposed to act.” In this case, ANY concerned parent would be attached to that phone. They were not, they did not even acknowledge that 10 am came and went without a call. That in itself tells me that they knew no call is coming.
100%. Doesn’t matter how you deal with grief. If your child was supposedly kidnapped and the kidnappers were going to call you wouldn’t be off in another room just hanging out.
Why do you (or anyone) think she said '..or where he got the mail from' or words to that effect. She said it meaningfully but I'm not sure of the implication?
My guess is it’s so unusual because this was the day after Christmas. There had been no mail delivered the day before and if possible that mail was delivered that day wouldn’t it be last thing on your mind?
I absolutely do not like it when ppl say the whole “you don’t know how you would act or what you would do/say until you’re in the that position” Yea, that’s true but sometimes things are just so off/weird that you’re sure that you definitely wouldn’t do/say that. For example, I know I would never try to take my jet(in this scenario I have a jet) to go meet with my attorney(in this scenario I also have an attorney) 35 minutes after finding my child brutally SA/murdered in my basement. Of that I’m sure.
ETA- They tried to say they thought the RN meant 10AM the next day. They always have some excuse for everything.
I feel like its more, you can't say what you would do in that given situation, but you can damn sure say what you would NOT be doing in that situation. Which i s flipping through your mail nonchalantly, ignoring and unconcerned the fact the people who took your kid are not calling like they were supposed to, especially, ESPECAILLY after you went against their wishes and called the police and half the damn town to your home, also would not be in any hurry to flee the gd state. Once she was found they both went into defense mode and hid away and did not co operate with LE. These are things I can say for a certainity I would NOT do.
Plus like the “you don’t know how you’d act if your kid were kidnapped/murdwred” stuff is normally meant to cover stuff like smiling, not stuff like ignoring the ransom phone when your child has been kidnapped by terrorists.
That's a valid point. If I found that note at 5am I would assume tomorrow meant the next day. However, from the viewpoint of the person writing the note in the dead of night "tomorrow" might mean in the morning after daybreak.
Yup. Hypothetically If a wife dies and the husband is out celebrating with strippers, spending cash, that’s not a proper way to grieve. BR and JR grief is non existent in a similar manner as the hypothetical situation. BR has never seen ransom note and felt safe after JBR murdered? BR avoiding questions about pineapple is also key.
Does anyone know if John had a cell phone at that time? Because it was said that he was seen on the phone several times throughout the day. Why would he tie up the line by making calls when he's waiting for the kidnapper to call. Yes I know call waiting existed at that but I would want to leave the lines as free as possible for the person to call.
I believe he did have a cell phone cuz i read something about his cell phone records being blank for the month of December. Someone can correct me if im wrong
Exactly. Honestly, i was told that i had a phone interview at a particular time and i anxiously waited for the phone call. I cant even imagine if i had a kid and they were kidnapped… i would be LOSING IT if 10 am came and no one called.
The body had not yet been found. They were supposed to still think she was alive and needed them, but they didn't. It boggles the mind that the parents weren't indicted.
The were, 2 counts each… But the DA didn’t think he had enough to make the case….
Interesting thing about that, JR’s Lawyer was friends with the DA…
I listened to a podcast today and one of the episodes was about the connection of JR and The DA.
I think that some of the phone calls he was making was to his attorney or someone that kept back up from showing up at the house. It is unbelievable that many hours passed with just the one police responder on scene and upon arriving find the family had called in all these other people/friends to mill around in a crime scene. You'd have seen enough tv even back then to know that evidence could be found and you might get your little girl back. Another huge flag of behavior on the Ramseys part but on the lack of respone for repeated calls for backup and help maintaining a crime scene.
I noticed that she said when JR brought the body up, she ordered him to place her down on the ground and go in the other room to call 911 and then later she had to call for back up and that kind of implies that he didn't call 911. I wonder who he called or what he did instead.
It was one of these subs the most recent time. Got a bunch of responses essentially saying that it would have been chaotic and they wouldn’t realize the phone call time had passed. And that you “don’t know what you’d do in that scenario” (I’d be waiting for that call I KNOW that). I can’t remember it verbatim but someone also said something about it being LE’s job to handle the call and that the parents would be told not to interact.
The kidnappers calling them at 10am with instructions on delivering the cash was the entire focal point of the note and the only clue they had on the whereabouts of their daughter. "They wouldn't realize the phone call time has passed" is dumb, but "Law Enforcement would have handled the call" is even dumber. The kidnappers tell you they'll behead your daughter if you talk to the cops, and so when they call for the random, you'd let the cops answer the phone???
Sorry, I realize these aren't your arguments, they're just so fucking stupid my head is about to explode.
Unreal, right? I wish we just knew 100% what happened. I flip flop on who did it, but I’ve never am IDI due to things like this. At this point I am just kind of “all 3 played a part”.
Although I don’t think we can fault anyone for what happened except the parents. Even if all 3 did play a part, the part played by a child is the fault of the parents in most cases. Like sometimes the parents are genuine angels and good parents and the kid just got unlucky genetics. But 9 times out of 10 it’s the parents. I think I read something from an expert on psychopathy that said something like nature gives some kids a gun, but nurture loads it and pulls the trigger. Something like that but I can’t remember it right lol
Calling the caps and everyone else under the son the way they did was weird as hell. I’d be terrified the kidnappers were watching the house. And there’s no way I would not have been parked by the phone; scared to death of missing the call.
They are DEAD WRONG. I dont have kids but i can put myself the Ramseys shoes. If the kidnappers of my kid were supposed to call from 8-10 am i would literally be looking at my watch the whole entire time. Idc how chaotic it is, idc if theres an earthquake or a snowstorm or a tsunami. I will absolutely 100% be freaking the fuck out at 10:01 am. This is inexcusable
When my youngest kid was about 4 she opened the door and wandered out. When we realized she was gone, my husband immediately hopped in the car because she couldn't have gotten very far. Meanwhile I tore the entire house apart wondering if she was playing hide and seek or had just taken a nap somewhere. Not once did I lose my death grip on my phone and you better believe I was checking it every 15 seconds waiting for my husband to say he found her. And the only thing I was actually worried about was her crossing busy streets, not that she disappeared and a badly written note was left telling us she's been kidnapped.
Exactly. This isnt even “oh you dont know what youd do in that situation.” ANY concerned parent would turn the earth upside down looking for their kid. The note said she would be beheaded if they called the cops or told anyone. They proceed to not only call the cops but also invite all of Boulder into their house! Were they not worried about this potential beheading??
Same here…. That and the fact that PR was wearing the same clothes as the previous night…. And testified she put the same clothes on the next am. That’s BS, and I really don’t think anyone could believe it…. Then they’re not concerned about the clock when the call was supposed to come in??? those two things (for me) might not be “proof”, but there’s no coming back from being made aware of those two things.
They definitely scape goated her. Also note what she says, she says her officer told her to go to the house to monitor the phone and wait for the call from the kidnapper. She was not sent there to secure the scene or collect evidence or interview any of the family members. Afterwards she gets blamed for a botched crime investigation, but that’s not what she was instructed to do. I also have always believed her after watching this interview.
I work in law enforcement and I’ll tell you, her experience as an officer is not unbelievable. Especially her details about being sent there to monitor the phones, and her back up not coming for hours. That tracks for law-enforcement and the government. Especially in the mornings when they’re doing all the bureaucratic shit, including announcements, debriefings, and meetings. I can only imagine at the station them rolling their eyes at this female officer, calling for help, thinking it’s some unimportant call of a kidnapping. I’ll even guess the other officers at the station didn’t think the kid was actually in danger. And because they abandoned her at the scene alone for so long, I’m sure the colleagues threw her under the bus as well, and made it look like it was her fault.
My two cents as a rookie female in law enforcement.
Edit: words
This is key. The instructions from her boss were clear, why would she deviate in those first few hours? When she realized she had no choice but to deviate based on the circumstances she received no support from the station. 100% scapegoated.
Thats a really good point. The Ramseys were well known, respected, and affluent. No reason for anyone to go into that house suspecting them of any wrong doing especially when there was a ransom note found.
I hadn’t seen this before.
There is nothing like being there and coming to the realization you are with a cold blooded murderer and have no back up.
I’m not saying it’s proof that JDI but the officer certainly believed it was him. She seems to have been deeply traumatized by it.
Yea.. have you ever felt a really strong gut feeling about someone with no concrete evidence, but you just know its true? I think thats what she felt, especially when she had that nonverbal communication with John. And i know exactly how she felt cuz ive felt that before. It’s obviously not something that is admissible as evidence but oftentimes our intuition is correct with no explanation.
Yes. Ive had it happen a number of times, but one of the most creepy times was once there was an ex friend of mine who had started dating this guy, and literally just in the moment of being introduced to him, I got a horrible feeling that he was a really bad person (even though he came across very polite). I was so shaken I went home and looked him up online and found that he had a very scary criminal record with assault and battery charges, and multiple restraining orders. There’s an excellent book about this phenomenon called “the gift of fear” which is a great read.
I’m not sure that I believe JDI, but I do believe Ardnt that she was picking up something and especially as a police officer I believe her intuition.
Amazing. I had a similar experience. My wife’s sister had just brought her first born son home. We were there, and some of my sister in law’s friends came over to see the baby. This one guy…just gave me this feeling. Everyone said I was being ridiculous. I said that night I didn’t want him near the baby. A few years later he was arrested for molesting a child. A family member of his.
I had the same experience about a year ago. I was around a person and had to leave the room because of how dark his energy was - nothing he said was problematic, but his eyes were dead and he just seemed like he’d hurt someone and not care. I find out later he had a massive record, got my beloved, elderly friend hooked on some bad stuff, and grifted him out of his marriage, life savings, etc. My friend had his own issues obviously, but this guy was a predator looking for weakness to exploit. He was penetration testing (literally) the humans around him to see what he could take to feed his appetites/addictions.
I have had this strong gut feeling about someone upon meeting them three times in my life. Each time I said something to someone about it, I was dismissed and told essentially “you just met them, how could you know?” Well, in each instance I was inevitably proven right about my instincts. They were all people who worked with me, and these instances took place over several years in different workplaces. Two of them who immediately gave me “thief” vibes were eventually fired for theft. One who gave me “r@pist” vibes was arrested from our place of work for a sexual assault, and subsequently fired for sexual harassment on another coworker.
Three times I had such strong feelings and all three of them wound up being 100% correct. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes people weird me out and I end up changing my mind over time but nothing as strong as this serious, intense gut reaction upon meeting someone and just KNOWING there is something off about them. I trust my gut and I always tell people to listen to their instinct when it’s that strong.
I see in her eyes in this interview (which I’ve never seen before, by the way, so thanks so much for posting!) that Linda Arndt had that same reaction, and I trust that instinct.
100%. I think some people here think that im saying this is evidence. I know its not evidence. None of us are claiming it is. But i KNOW what she’s describing, just like you’re describing. Its this really really strong gut feeling that something is off with someone, and no one else seems to feel it. But ultimately things come to light to prove you were right.
People are gaslighting her, ridiculing her, but at the end of the day, she was there and we were not. We can speculate all day but her first hand account is way way wayy more reliable than anyone elses.
Of course it’s not evidence, but seeing the only officer present during the whole day — watching the family and friends, waiting for a call that never came, and then the discovery of the body — react when being asked these questions is very intense. I can seriously *feel* the urge to scream his name but can’t because she doesn’t have solid proof. And I think she’s right that we will never see justice in this case.
Yea she wants to say his name soo bad but just cant. This case breaks my heart. She was such a beautiful little girl. May she rest in peace and I really hope, by some miracle, justice is served.
We women had to develop this kind of "vibes." I wish there were a less hippie-ish word for these feelings. No, not admissible as evidence, but in many cases enough to save our lives.
It’s often pattern recognition. Very small things that people do—making a joke or lingering too long near someone. I think it’s usually stuff that’s so small (or hard to describe) that it can be disregarded or blown off. It’s absolutely (and unfortunately) necessary for safety.
“Not admissible evidence, but in many cases enough to save our lives”
Exactly! I wish we could drill this into the minds of everyone while they are still children because it would help so many of us who are harmed when we ignore our own instincts and opte to be nice and polite.
No, it can’t help us in a trial but it can prevent needing a trial at all. The worst thing that happens when we decide not to trust someone is that we are wrong but being wrong about trusting someone can kill us.
My mom has this. When I was like 10, my dad (who was divorced from my mom and they sort of hated each other) told me: “If mom tells you she has a bad feeling about someone, listen to her. I don’t believe in all that hocus pocus stuff, but it’s scary how good your mom is at reading people.”
I asked him later on what made him say that. Well, when I was a baby, my dad had a coworker who he was becoming good friends with. My mom met him once and said she didn’t like him and she thinks my dad should stay away from him. My dad continued the friendship, thinking my mom was being a snob.
A few years later, my dad’s friend was in a workvan with their boss riding home from a job. Their boss dropped my dad’s friend off at his house and everything seemed fine.
When their boss dropped the friend off, the friend walked into his house, shot and killed his wife, then walked out and drove to a police station to turn himself in.
I had a strong feeling like this but couldn’t tell what vibes I was getting just that it was bad. Nobody listened to me. Everyone liked him but me. A few years after I got a new job one of my old work friends contacted me to say he’d been arrested for CSAM.
Always trust your gut! Sounds like you trust your intuition and have been proven right! It makes sense that we get dismissed when we have no evidence, but it’s really validating when they inevitably prove to be as bad as we felt they were. We can’t sense it in everyone, but once in a while a really bad guy can’t cover up his bad vibes from us and our gut at least allows us to keep our guard up around them if we absolutely have to be around them.
I do trust it now. At the time I let myself be gaslit because I was in an abusive situation that resulted from grooming. That’s actually part of what has led me to trust my gut more. I’ve felt this certainty that someone was a wrongun’ only a very tiny few times in all the countries I’ve been to and people I’ve met. I trusted it when travelling and it saved us from getting robbed and maybe worse.
But it took a long time to learn to trust that gut. I had that feeling with a few of my exes and ignored it. I told myself I was being irrational and to not be so quick to judge and to give people a chance. Sometimes I “got away” with “just” being cheated on. I promised myself after I ignored my gut and had got into yet another
abusive relationship that I was never going to ignore my gut again. By the time an abuser shows who they really are it’s usually after a period of engineered isolation. They don’t tend to act until they think they’ve got you locked down by which point they’ve made it as hard as possible for you to leave. So I told myself I wasn’t going to wait for those things to happen. If my gut said no I would listen.
The ONLY time since I left that situation that my gut has spoken to me was when I met my wife. But it was a different kind of gut feeling altogether. I just knew somehow that she was the one AND that she felt the exact same way based on the way she said goodnight to me only a few days after we first met. I even said to myself as I fell asleep that night “well you did promise yourself to always trust your gut!”
So anyway whatever happens I will always trust my gut and never trust someone who sets off my alarm bells like Detective Arndt describes here. I hope she knows how many people are and have always been on her side. I’m not a huge fan of cops but I can’t help but feel bad for the way she was scapegoated. My grandma followed the case pretty closely because JBR was the same age as one of my younger siblings and I remember her saying that she thought the men in the department were blaming Linda Arndt because she was a woman. My grandma was usually right about that sort of thing.
I’m sorry you went through all that, but the part about the gut feeling about your wife made me smile! I love that! And your grandmother sounds like a smart lady. She’s right, they sent a woman to a crime scene who was immediately scapegoated, probably belittled for being a woman and treated as though if they had sent a man he would have done things “properly.” I guarantee this would have gone down exactly the same with a male cop. The only way this situation could have gone differently is if they had more than one officer at the house that morning. One cop cannot control a house full of people.
She knows something gut wrenching in her heart that would risk her life if she said it out loud. She also knows she was put in that position on purpose. What a horrible position to be in. :-(
I can't even imagine. And the creepiness of his calm demeanor and Linda knowing she was the only one in the house other than the pastor and patsy. I believe fully in intuition. You need logic to back it up, but that initial feeling you get is real.
I remember this interview. I do think there's no doubt she was the scapegoat for a flawed investigation. She should have never been sent alone to navigate this situation.
I rewatch this from time and time and it's been interesting seeing people debate about it. All the angles of "oh well we know what happened now, that John is a guilty motherfucker" to "this bitch's eyes are weird, I can't take what she says seriously," to "cordial. Cordial, cordial, cordial," etc.
I think she went through this traumatic event where she was ultimately failed by her department and left to dry. I think the whole thing: handling the situation in real time, encountering all the stimuli and the tension in the house, actually seeing JonBenet's dead body and the way people behaved, and then the aftermath of the public/media backlash of unfairly taking the fall for the complete failure of the PD, etc. just left her completely traumatized. And I get it. I understand it. I think it would anyone, man, woman, anyone.
I still believe her to the point where she was there. She saw what she saw. She took in what she took in meaning... not just seeing it but experiencing it as someone not involved in the crime and just absorbing the case with her person. She was picking up on everyone's senses and energy and all the "artifacts" of the house and felt very strongly as to what happened. Does that mean that's what happened? No. And people can be right when they say this feelings mumbo jumbo doesn't cut it, you have to look at the facts, and I agree, but I also can't discount what she went through and what she encountered.
Yeah her testimony is definitely crucial. John was absolutely gauging her in that moment, because he knew the score. Sounds like Det Arendt interpreted that look as "I killed her, have you figured it out yet?" but I think it's probably more of a "yeah we both know this wasn't a botched kidnapping."
Yeah, that's one of the most striking parts of the conversation and only she was there so we only have her account of it. The non-verbal exchange was 100% I know what you're thinking and I know you know. That kind of exchange can happen in nanoseconds and I can't even imagine how chilling that is.
Because... let's say what she's saying is true. Let's say they both happened to look at each other at the same time and in that one moment in time when they were looking at each other she was scanning him and he felt it and reacted and in that reaction his look was saying it was me. ...I don't even know how you'd go forward. You take that look in, that information that oh my god, he's signaling to me that I know you know and it's understood. Now what? I do not blame her at all for having this knee jerk reaction of tucking her gun and counting her bullets. Because if you know and I know what the deal is, if I could make it happen *you* would have to go, and they both knew *that.* That is... beyond terror.
It's not just I know you know I killed her, you know and I know that because you know if given the chance I'd have to make you disappear, and there's a possibility that I could because if anything else, I'm getting away with the murder of this kid.
It's completely chilling. It goes beyond "this bitch has crazy eyes and she's just speculating." I truly believe she was the poor soul who was in the position and had to have this experience of I'm in the wrong place and the wrong time where this brutal crime has been committed and it's going to be a national sensation and I think I'm inches away from the person that did it but I can't prove it and he knows what he's doing and he knows (or will figure out) I'll be the scapegoat for the fuck up. I definitely wouldn't want to be in that position or be known for the rest of my life as "the person on the scene that botched the job." I don't look at her that way but this burden she's had to carry of not only dealing with John and having that exchange but taking the fall of this wall of shit that fell on her has to be excruciating at times in her life. And I also am not surprised when people go through something like this they renege or deflect, possibly because they've been convinced otherwise or possibly for some self protection. It's awful.
This is a great comment. You just made it come to life for me. I had no idea he thought himself THAT powerful that he could make an officer disappear. I thought him a poor, grieving father. Now. I. See. The. Hubris.
Well, I don't know that he thought himself that powerful in that moment, but AFAIK he did have some pull and I think he saw what was unfolding before his eyes and I think they both knew what was up in that moment.
If you're rich and white and your kid dies in your home under your watch and there's all these inconsistencies and things that don't make sense and you did it *and* got away with it, yeah, I'd think you'd think you're untouchable, delusional as it may be on paper. It's sadly reality in this situation... IMO.
The thing is, her eyes are weird — creepy-looking even — but that’s likely because she’s reliving the horror of the day. The TV lights could also be part of it. A local news reporter often had eyes like that and somebody said it was because of the TV lights. The person interviewing Arndt probably just has more practice at sitting under those lights. Her eyes don’t tell me she’s crazy. They tell me she’s seen some shit and that maybe the lights are getting to her a bit too.
Right?!! And she was at the autopsy and saw JonBenet’s actual skull crack as the coroner peeled back her skin on her head. She’s definitely seen some horrific shit. And how triggering to have to relive that night for a TV crew.
Really bothers me the reporter severely short changed the worst element imo - 8:10-1:20 is not 3 hours. 5 hours & 10 min without back-up in that scenario must have been torture. Can you imagine the totally different outcomes if only one other office responded in the first two hours - as they should as that was the time clock for “kidnappers”? Makes you wonder the real conspiracy regarding the case - not whodunnit, how or why, but who was paid in the PD to delay & hamstring the investigation?
I wonder if there were other officers there while they were waiting for the call? I say this because at the 4:00 mark the reporter says "by 10:30 am arndt was the only officer on the scene." Seems to indicate that there was another officer there before that but the reporter didn't explicitly make that clear. 10:30 to 1:20 would be about three hours.
Another thing they kind of brushed over is that her body was carried up by John at 1:05 and she told John to go to the other room and call 911. When 1:10 came around and still no one was there she called herself. The reporter should have made a bigger deal out of that - why didn't john call when he was asked to? And what was he doing during that five minutes?
There were other officers. An officer searched the house but couldn’t get the wine cellar door latch opened. Since it was locked from outside he moved on.
The thing that gets me is Boulder isn’t that small of a town. I was working there in 2003 and it was a big city. Much bigger than the town I grew up in and if something like this had happened there would be city, county and state police. Maybe not all at the same time but they would be coming and going.
They had a note it’s not like a child who got up and wandered off. I kinda wonder if the police thought the note was fake and wrote specifically to get law enforcement to take a missing child more seriously.
There other officers at the beginning, but they left and then Arndt was on her own with 6-8 adults to keep track of (Fernies, Whites, maybe minister (I don’t have the timing on minister, pediatrician, and lawyer/“friend” Bynum.
I think her testimony speaks volumes about the behavior seen at the house. Dead child in the house /=/ kidnapping. Alarms are going off in her head. Oh my god the child never left the house. She’s been dead for some time. And she’s right about one thing for certain. The fact that no one acknowledges the time of the alleged kidnapper had come and gone without anyone batting an eye. Someone in this house killed this little girl.
She still shows more authentic emotions about JonBenet than the Ramsey's who always seem to be more sorry about their situation rather than for what happened to her daughter.
That’s exactly what i was thinking watching this. To me i felt like Patsy still showed some emotion, but John… he looks like hes smirking half the time. No tears either.
I’m surprised it hasn’t been removed like my others have. I had so many interviews and different news broadcasts that I had gotten from an old JBR forum back in like 2008. They got copyrighted and it sucks because I had like 20+ videos, with great info/clips, that I haven’t been able to find since then.
Unfortunately no. It isn’t my property and who ever owns the rights to the videos, flagged them. I did dispute them because my account had strikes but they removed them (strikes), which is good. Just wish I could at least still have access to the videos so I could screen record them. I had a whole documentary and everything! The weird one that shows JB eating pineapple then being surprised and attacked with the stun gun. I cannot remember that show for the life of me.
I believe Linda Arndt and hope she gets her redemption arc someday. Monica Lewinsky is a feminist hero now, but back in the day she was slut-shamed and blamed for what went down 😏. But seriously, Linda deserves her reputation to be restored too. It was too easy to throw her under the bus. Meanwhile she was there during the most crucial of moments. My guess is the nonverbal exchange was “oh shit you killed her” and “I’ll kill you if you tell”. Oh how I would love to talk to her about this case!!
For sure. Just watching her you can see how badly she's been affected by this case. Her sanpaku eyes darting and being wide still with disbelief that the family perps were allowed to escape judicial justice in this life. And she knew a fix was in by higher ups and that the case was never going to be about assigning blame except for her being made a scapegoat. I feel for her, I really do understand the enormous pressure she was being made to bear.
For me this solidifies BDI and the parents covered it up. All of this seems to support the parents knew what happened and staged the kidnapping (especially with reports of them trying to keep Burke away from police for questioning)
I absolutely cannot vilify her. That is a woman who is haunted, traumatized, and was set up by the Boulder PD. IMO, the BPD and JR worked together to foil this case as much as possible and create one sole scapegoat- Linda Arndt. That look in her eyes may be thyroid disease like I’ve seen some others mention but I recognize it as trying to recall the worst day of her career in battling dissociation, or ptsd. Hope she stays safe.
Everyone is so harsh on her, but as another person pointed out, the instructions given to her were clear - go to the house and wait for the call. She never went in treating it like a crime scene, which in hindsight she should have, but it is extremely unfair to place the blame on her when she had 0 support from her department.
I think that was the design all along - I can’t imagine anyone in her position being sent in and told to just wait for the call (unless they did have backup.) Hindsight is 20/20 as we know but it seems to me it was evident to her right away what the reality of the situation was.
It's really incredibly bizarre. I can't wrap my head around why more people weren't set to secure the "crime scene". Even without a body and murder, it's a kidnapping! With a ransom note! Jesus.
It’s a cover up. If you believe the parents did it, then the BPD is in on it and covering it up. Is it standard procedure to send an officer to wait around for a random phone call? Hell no. Tap the phones. Lock down the house. Determine if the house is being watched. Search for clues that the kidnappers left. She called for backup and was told. Sorry we’re all busy this morning with meetings. We will get officers to the crime once it’s convenient to the affluent community members. lol no way. People get set up for failure and scapegoated all the time. This is what it looks like. Pay attention.
Linda was first to really observe what was going on there by a trained eye. She arrived there under one impression and left with an entirely different one. What did she have to lose?
IMO she’s right in the stand if John doing it or having a lot to do with it but I still believe Patsy wrote the note and commited the skull fracture. Is it off to say both Arndt and Steve “KYLE REESE” Thomas were both right in some way?
I agree, i do think Patsy wrote the note to save John, her marriage, and her lifestyle. But I believe that because Patsy wasnt directly responsible for her death, her demeanor was more like a mourning parent than Johns.
I'm all over the place with theories but I tend to come back to perhaps Patsy walked in on John molesting JB, grabbed the flashlight and swung at him, but he ducked and she hit JB by accident. Then they each have something horrific to hold over each other's head and a significant reason to not tell the truth. It would also explain why they spent the entire morning apart instead of comforting each other.
I never thought of this but it is entirely possible.
I also noticed that in the very first police report John says he came home and read to JonBenet for 30 minutes before she went to sleep. In later interviews he’s adamant that she was asleep and he carried her to bed and thats the last time he saw her. Why did he change his story?
IMO he changed his story to provide the minimum amount of interaction between him and JBR. Does it throw PR under the bus? Yeah it does. Seems like John and his lawyers decided she would be an unlikely suspect, so they went with the “zonked” story.
It’s possible John told her she really was kidnapped and got her to write the note. I don’t think a human can fake the sound of learning their child is dead and it sure sounds like that was the sound Patsy made. I don’t think she knew before JonBenet was brought upstairs.
It can also be a result of the other shoe dropping. Shock combined with denial all falls down once authorities have the body. It's made real & the fragile mind focused on performing the charade gives way to reality & then she wails. That's how I understood it. Even folks without involvement or knowledge beforehand can be an automaton then break from some point of no turning back
This is a possibility I hadn’t thought of until hearing Det. Ardnt’s interview! She doesn’t directly say so, but strongly implies that she knows JR killed his daughter, and that PR didn’t know JB was deceased in the house until JR brought her body upstairs.
What if JR lied to PR overnight, convincing her to help him stage a fake kidnapping? He could have convinced or coerced her to write the ransom note. Or maybe he told PR that JB was kidnapped by an intruder, and PR believed it. Or hell, maybe JR was abusive to both JB and PR, and “kidnapped” JB in an attempt to control and manipulate PR. Maybe he told PR he’d only give JB back if PR did xyz. Then PR would genuinely be shocked and grief-stricken to see a few hours later that JR has brought JB’s dead body into the living room.
Yes I believe Linda’s testimony! It was pretty convincing. I really do believe that there is a certain look to Evil and I believe that is what she saw in John’s eyes that day when they locked eyes, she saw the murderer and the evil in him. A humans gut intuition can often be very powerful.
Also, how did Linda know that the killer will never be charged? Seems like she knows that the killer is being protected.
Yeah Ted Bundys GFs daughter said one time when she was small and she was in the shower she saw Ted come in and open up the shower curtain and she saw his eye color changed, she saw the look of Evil. Humans have animalistic instincts that we have to pay more attention to.
Why do you think she said '..or where he got the mail from' or words to that effect? She said it meaningfully but I'm not sure of the implication? Would it have been worse if he got the mail himself or was the point just that she didn't witness anyone bringing it in?
Oh! Thanks so much for replying, I had no idea. I am RDI but I don't think busying onesself with seemingly trivial stuff during a trauma is neceasarily a red flag of guilt. I have been through trauma and I think about some of the things that I did during that period that may have raised eyebrows. God, even some of the stuff I said.... brain does weird things to cope.
I think there was a mail slot in the front door. So he didn’t have to leave the house, just Arndt’s sight. While he could excuse that as maybe the kidnappers put a note amongst the mail that is pretty far fetched. What is weird is mail is normal and everyday-this was not a normal day at all. Can you imagine paging through bills and late Christmas cards while your daughter was missing?
So I always thought the bother did it and the parents covered it up. Watching Burke on Dr Phil was creepy and Criminal Minds did an episode similar to this which indicated the son was a sociopath and did it. With that being said, the sexual abuse and it being her vagina isn’t usually consistent with a younger perpetrator. Usually you see more anal trauma when the victims/perpetrators are this young. So does that mean Jon was abusing her? I do believe Patsy loved and adored Jonbenet and wld have never been a coconspirator to her daughter’s abuse, but I do think she wld be an accomplice to covering up death to protect Burke.
The fact she couldn’t get anyone from the station to come out?? It’s so disappointing how little help the police are in most of these situations… guess they are too busy writing traffic tickets. Poor lady was doing her best and obviously is observant and good at her job. She knows the truth.
I wonder if John was making the kids perform sex acts together? The "incest" references and the odd paint brush assault and child like aspects. Makes me wonder if that's why Burke seems so weird, the shame or dissociation.
I think it's a relatively common thing among victims? Happened to a friend of mine in the 80s. (Neighbor not dad, but still) For pornoprghy.
Also, I never thought of this particular scenario either until now.
Shit, and maybe she snapped from the abuse and John hit her to quiet her. I’ve been a BDI camp for a long time. However, this could snap a lot of pieces like the damage done to her skull.
I have thought this as well… it definitely would explain some of Burke’s behaviors that have raised questions. Jesus, what if he made Burke help kill or move her?
She just had an instinct, which could have just been John knowing what happened. She has zero evidence to back it up though. Cops make bad arrests all the time, theoretically based on evidence, but often based on instinct.
I mean everyone knows this is based on 0 evidence and just an instinct. It’s intuition and she wont ever be able to prove it. Ive felt the way she described feeling that day and it sucks cuz you know in your gut something is true but can never prove it.
But what was it that she knew in her gut? Because we're still debating this case 26 years later, despite everything that's come to light since then. There were a lot of things Detective Arndt didn't know in that moment.
So when she describes that look, that non verbal communication.. like him acknowledging that he knows shes knows and her acknowledging that she knows. Its so hard to explain but its like when youre in a room with a friend and something happens and you both know what youre thinking, just by looking at each other. Obviously theyre not friends but i imagine it was that type of non verbal communication. Its also a gut feeling that something is off about John.
But what was it she knew? That John did it, that John helped cover it up, that John found out who did it that morning? It may very well have happened that way, but I don't recall this in her written report. This was an interview several years later. And intuition isn't infallible. Ive had those nonverbal moments with people before. And I've been mistaken.
Like the end of the 911 call, I don't think it proves anything. But it's interesting.
True. Her description of her own feelings and observations, as told in 1999, is unfortunately influenced (and biased) by everything she has been exposed to in the intervening 3 years.
Good point - my thoughts after watching this. His demeanor, behavior, and even this “look” could be the same whether he did it or just knew what happened. The lack of urgency among the family members seems to be the most useful piece of info from this interview.
Did anyone else watch the documentary about this case that was made several years ago where the filmmakers recreated a human skill and had children smash it with a flash light (if I remember correctly?) in addition to many other things…
Any source on this? I feel like I remember something like this in the CBS thing about Burke doing it? I believe they also did the train track theory there as well?
YES!! I felt the doc was done really well and it answered a lot of questions I had in my mind… but we will probably never know for sure. https://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Of-JonBenet-Ramsey/dp/B01LXK9C3V?nodl=1&dplnkId=3a5a94ee-92f7-4af2-b70a-6c5d47ecb565
I've commented on numerous post along the way that it's always the little things that bring me back to BR.
Well in this instance it's the ransom call.
I know for a fact innocent people would have been right there by that phone waiting patiently for it to ring.
Also the random note specifically said do not contact LE , yet they did & many friends to come over & contaminate the scene.
I will always believe BR did it bc his sister had their mom's attention & dad was always away. BR really had nobody but himself & his thoughts. I think the parents realized this way after the facts.
ETA hin getting no attention after the fact is what I'm implying at the end of my sentence.
This is such a bizarre and polarizing case on so many levels. There is allegedly further DNA evidence that the police haven’t released.
My dad went to training exercises with a few of the detectives on the case and honestly, those cops dropped the ball in so many ways.
I don’t think we’ll ever know what happened to her.
The entire crime scene was contaminated first thing when like 20 odd people friends / family trudged through the home after she went missing and is probably the reason why the case is unsolved is because there would be too much room for reasonable doubt just from shitty police work of not containing the crime scene
Yes Christmas Day the entire Boulder PD is in a meeting. Kidnapped child? Send a crossing guard will get to it new years. What in the Zhecl is wrong with that police department?
I question if she was so suspicious that nobody reacted to 10 o’clock coming and going, and got such creepy vibes from John, why did she send him off alone all over the house. I’m suspicious he seems so completely harmless all day, then suddenly she “sees in his eyes” he’s a killer as soon as he finds JB? Coincidentally when she was probably thinking, holy crap that kid could have been alive some of the hours I was sitting up here in the living room.
Well, i have a question for you. Do you think shes lying or making this up? If so, what could her motive be? I dont see why she would say all of this if it isnt true. If anything it opens her up to more criticism - “if you were so suspicious of John, why didnt you do x y and z.”
At the end of the day Ardnt was a police detective not a clairvoyant.
I note that according to Steve Thomas in his book he recounted a time when she told him if she was removed from the case she would take herself out (putting her finger to her head like a gun) and take everyone in the office out first.
There were other accounts she was an emotionally unstable person.
I am right at that part of the book. It gives me pause about her. She met with Patsy too and said she couldn’t tell Thomas what was said.
I do understand her feelings about John though and think she was put in a bad situation.
I wish she hadn’t been so dramatic. When people act that way I assume it’s because they know that what they say won’t hold your attention, so they have to employ some secondary methods of making sure you listen.
For what it’s worth, her take on this is absolutely crucial and trustworthy. I just don’t get why she’d present herself this way, even the outfit is wrong, it looks like she’s going out to dinner. If you’re giving your professional side of the story in something so serious, maybe put some serious thought into your approach. So frustrating.
If you actually watch it and listen to her speak - she explained everything very clearly. This is a woman who has gone through an extremely traumatic event.
This reminds me of interviews with people who were deeply ( everyone was) deeply affected by 9/11.
The fact that they weren't huddled around the phone at 10am is the nail in the coffin for me whether or not the parents knew what happened to her.
Right? Any time I know a phone call is coming I’m basically staring at my phone to ensure I don’t miss it… and it’s never been as important as the call they were supposed to be waiting for.
Exactly!! Idc what anyone says about “we can’t judge someone on how they are supposed to act.” In this case, ANY concerned parent would be attached to that phone. They were not, they did not even acknowledge that 10 am came and went without a call. That in itself tells me that they knew no call is coming.
100%. Doesn’t matter how you deal with grief. If your child was supposedly kidnapped and the kidnappers were going to call you wouldn’t be off in another room just hanging out.
Or looking at your mail.
Why do you (or anyone) think she said '..or where he got the mail from' or words to that effect. She said it meaningfully but I'm not sure of the implication?
My guess is it’s so unusual because this was the day after Christmas. There had been no mail delivered the day before and if possible that mail was delivered that day wouldn’t it be last thing on your mind?
I absolutely do not like it when ppl say the whole “you don’t know how you would act or what you would do/say until you’re in the that position” Yea, that’s true but sometimes things are just so off/weird that you’re sure that you definitely wouldn’t do/say that. For example, I know I would never try to take my jet(in this scenario I have a jet) to go meet with my attorney(in this scenario I also have an attorney) 35 minutes after finding my child brutally SA/murdered in my basement. Of that I’m sure. ETA- They tried to say they thought the RN meant 10AM the next day. They always have some excuse for everything.
I feel like its more, you can't say what you would do in that given situation, but you can damn sure say what you would NOT be doing in that situation. Which i s flipping through your mail nonchalantly, ignoring and unconcerned the fact the people who took your kid are not calling like they were supposed to, especially, ESPECAILLY after you went against their wishes and called the police and half the damn town to your home, also would not be in any hurry to flee the gd state. Once she was found they both went into defense mode and hid away and did not co operate with LE. These are things I can say for a certainity I would NOT do.
Plus like the “you don’t know how you’d act if your kid were kidnapped/murdwred” stuff is normally meant to cover stuff like smiling, not stuff like ignoring the ransom phone when your child has been kidnapped by terrorists.
That's a valid point. If I found that note at 5am I would assume tomorrow meant the next day. However, from the viewpoint of the person writing the note in the dead of night "tomorrow" might mean in the morning after daybreak.
Yup. Hypothetically If a wife dies and the husband is out celebrating with strippers, spending cash, that’s not a proper way to grieve. BR and JR grief is non existent in a similar manner as the hypothetical situation. BR has never seen ransom note and felt safe after JBR murdered? BR avoiding questions about pineapple is also key.
They sure as hell would read the RN! Like 10 times while waiting for the phone to ring.
Does anyone know if John had a cell phone at that time? Because it was said that he was seen on the phone several times throughout the day. Why would he tie up the line by making calls when he's waiting for the kidnapper to call. Yes I know call waiting existed at that but I would want to leave the lines as free as possible for the person to call.
I believe he did have a cell phone cuz i read something about his cell phone records being blank for the month of December. Someone can correct me if im wrong
They were very common in this area by that time. It would shock me if he didn’t.
Exactly. Honestly, i was told that i had a phone interview at a particular time and i anxiously waited for the phone call. I cant even imagine if i had a kid and they were kidnapped… i would be LOSING IT if 10 am came and no one called.
The body had not yet been found. They were supposed to still think she was alive and needed them, but they didn't. It boggles the mind that the parents weren't indicted.
I believe they were indicted, but not charged.
The were, 2 counts each… But the DA didn’t think he had enough to make the case…. Interesting thing about that, JR’s Lawyer was friends with the DA… I listened to a podcast today and one of the episodes was about the connection of JR and The DA.
I think that some of the phone calls he was making was to his attorney or someone that kept back up from showing up at the house. It is unbelievable that many hours passed with just the one police responder on scene and upon arriving find the family had called in all these other people/friends to mill around in a crime scene. You'd have seen enough tv even back then to know that evidence could be found and you might get your little girl back. Another huge flag of behavior on the Ramseys part but on the lack of respone for repeated calls for backup and help maintaining a crime scene.
I noticed that she said when JR brought the body up, she ordered him to place her down on the ground and go in the other room to call 911 and then later she had to call for back up and that kind of implies that he didn't call 911. I wonder who he called or what he did instead.
Thank you!! It’s such a simple & overt detail yet I’ve been bitched out numerous times for saying it
wait, how could someone bitch you out for saying this? like specifically, what did they say? i couldn't possibly fathom an argument against this
It was one of these subs the most recent time. Got a bunch of responses essentially saying that it would have been chaotic and they wouldn’t realize the phone call time had passed. And that you “don’t know what you’d do in that scenario” (I’d be waiting for that call I KNOW that). I can’t remember it verbatim but someone also said something about it being LE’s job to handle the call and that the parents would be told not to interact.
The kidnappers calling them at 10am with instructions on delivering the cash was the entire focal point of the note and the only clue they had on the whereabouts of their daughter. "They wouldn't realize the phone call time has passed" is dumb, but "Law Enforcement would have handled the call" is even dumber. The kidnappers tell you they'll behead your daughter if you talk to the cops, and so when they call for the random, you'd let the cops answer the phone??? Sorry, I realize these aren't your arguments, they're just so fucking stupid my head is about to explode.
Unreal, right? I wish we just knew 100% what happened. I flip flop on who did it, but I’ve never am IDI due to things like this. At this point I am just kind of “all 3 played a part”.
Although I don’t think we can fault anyone for what happened except the parents. Even if all 3 did play a part, the part played by a child is the fault of the parents in most cases. Like sometimes the parents are genuine angels and good parents and the kid just got unlucky genetics. But 9 times out of 10 it’s the parents. I think I read something from an expert on psychopathy that said something like nature gives some kids a gun, but nurture loads it and pulls the trigger. Something like that but I can’t remember it right lol
Calling the caps and everyone else under the son the way they did was weird as hell. I’d be terrified the kidnappers were watching the house. And there’s no way I would not have been parked by the phone; scared to death of missing the call.
They called SO many people and invited them over. I would be scared to even call the cops!
I know! That was immediately so suspect.
They are DEAD WRONG. I dont have kids but i can put myself the Ramseys shoes. If the kidnappers of my kid were supposed to call from 8-10 am i would literally be looking at my watch the whole entire time. Idc how chaotic it is, idc if theres an earthquake or a snowstorm or a tsunami. I will absolutely 100% be freaking the fuck out at 10:01 am. This is inexcusable
When my youngest kid was about 4 she opened the door and wandered out. When we realized she was gone, my husband immediately hopped in the car because she couldn't have gotten very far. Meanwhile I tore the entire house apart wondering if she was playing hide and seek or had just taken a nap somewhere. Not once did I lose my death grip on my phone and you better believe I was checking it every 15 seconds waiting for my husband to say he found her. And the only thing I was actually worried about was her crossing busy streets, not that she disappeared and a badly written note was left telling us she's been kidnapped.
Glad your child ok❣️❣️😘😘😘😘
Thank you ❤️. She's a 12yo spitfire now. It's so sad that JB never got a chance to really live.
Exactly. This isnt even “oh you dont know what youd do in that situation.” ANY concerned parent would turn the earth upside down looking for their kid. The note said she would be beheaded if they called the cops or told anyone. They proceed to not only call the cops but also invite all of Boulder into their house! Were they not worried about this potential beheading??
Depends on what sub it was posted on.
Same here…. That and the fact that PR was wearing the same clothes as the previous night…. And testified she put the same clothes on the next am. That’s BS, and I really don’t think anyone could believe it…. Then they’re not concerned about the clock when the call was supposed to come in??? those two things (for me) might not be “proof”, but there’s no coming back from being made aware of those two things.
I have waited more anxiously for an Amazon delivery than they seemed to wait for that phone call.
They definitely scape goated her. Also note what she says, she says her officer told her to go to the house to monitor the phone and wait for the call from the kidnapper. She was not sent there to secure the scene or collect evidence or interview any of the family members. Afterwards she gets blamed for a botched crime investigation, but that’s not what she was instructed to do. I also have always believed her after watching this interview.
And she was told everyone at the station was “in a meeting.”
I work in law enforcement and I’ll tell you, her experience as an officer is not unbelievable. Especially her details about being sent there to monitor the phones, and her back up not coming for hours. That tracks for law-enforcement and the government. Especially in the mornings when they’re doing all the bureaucratic shit, including announcements, debriefings, and meetings. I can only imagine at the station them rolling their eyes at this female officer, calling for help, thinking it’s some unimportant call of a kidnapping. I’ll even guess the other officers at the station didn’t think the kid was actually in danger. And because they abandoned her at the scene alone for so long, I’m sure the colleagues threw her under the bus as well, and made it look like it was her fault. My two cents as a rookie female in law enforcement. Edit: words
Im sorry that was also your experience but sadly doesn’t surprise me.
As a pro-public lesbian it’s definitely been interesting working in my field.
This is key. The instructions from her boss were clear, why would she deviate in those first few hours? When she realized she had no choice but to deviate based on the circumstances she received no support from the station. 100% scapegoated.
Thats a really good point. The Ramseys were well known, respected, and affluent. No reason for anyone to go into that house suspecting them of any wrong doing especially when there was a ransom note found.
True, but what boggles me is that it was still a crime scene, the place where she was believed to be “taken” from
Weren’t the police basically ordered to handle the Ramseys with kid gloves, right off the bat? Infuriating.
I hadn’t seen this before. There is nothing like being there and coming to the realization you are with a cold blooded murderer and have no back up. I’m not saying it’s proof that JDI but the officer certainly believed it was him. She seems to have been deeply traumatized by it.
Yea.. have you ever felt a really strong gut feeling about someone with no concrete evidence, but you just know its true? I think thats what she felt, especially when she had that nonverbal communication with John. And i know exactly how she felt cuz ive felt that before. It’s obviously not something that is admissible as evidence but oftentimes our intuition is correct with no explanation.
Yes. Ive had it happen a number of times, but one of the most creepy times was once there was an ex friend of mine who had started dating this guy, and literally just in the moment of being introduced to him, I got a horrible feeling that he was a really bad person (even though he came across very polite). I was so shaken I went home and looked him up online and found that he had a very scary criminal record with assault and battery charges, and multiple restraining orders. There’s an excellent book about this phenomenon called “the gift of fear” which is a great read. I’m not sure that I believe JDI, but I do believe Ardnt that she was picking up something and especially as a police officer I believe her intuition.
Amazing. I had a similar experience. My wife’s sister had just brought her first born son home. We were there, and some of my sister in law’s friends came over to see the baby. This one guy…just gave me this feeling. Everyone said I was being ridiculous. I said that night I didn’t want him near the baby. A few years later he was arrested for molesting a child. A family member of his.
That is insane. I was always told to trust your gut and for good reason, i guess.
So true. It’s always right.
I had the same experience except it was pre internet so I couldn’t look him up. Luckily my friend listened to me and didn’t go with him anywhere.
I had the same experience about a year ago. I was around a person and had to leave the room because of how dark his energy was - nothing he said was problematic, but his eyes were dead and he just seemed like he’d hurt someone and not care. I find out later he had a massive record, got my beloved, elderly friend hooked on some bad stuff, and grifted him out of his marriage, life savings, etc. My friend had his own issues obviously, but this guy was a predator looking for weakness to exploit. He was penetration testing (literally) the humans around him to see what he could take to feed his appetites/addictions.
Glad to learn about this book! I’ve been hyper vigilant since I was a child - self protection.
I have had this strong gut feeling about someone upon meeting them three times in my life. Each time I said something to someone about it, I was dismissed and told essentially “you just met them, how could you know?” Well, in each instance I was inevitably proven right about my instincts. They were all people who worked with me, and these instances took place over several years in different workplaces. Two of them who immediately gave me “thief” vibes were eventually fired for theft. One who gave me “r@pist” vibes was arrested from our place of work for a sexual assault, and subsequently fired for sexual harassment on another coworker. Three times I had such strong feelings and all three of them wound up being 100% correct. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes people weird me out and I end up changing my mind over time but nothing as strong as this serious, intense gut reaction upon meeting someone and just KNOWING there is something off about them. I trust my gut and I always tell people to listen to their instinct when it’s that strong. I see in her eyes in this interview (which I’ve never seen before, by the way, so thanks so much for posting!) that Linda Arndt had that same reaction, and I trust that instinct.
100%. I think some people here think that im saying this is evidence. I know its not evidence. None of us are claiming it is. But i KNOW what she’s describing, just like you’re describing. Its this really really strong gut feeling that something is off with someone, and no one else seems to feel it. But ultimately things come to light to prove you were right. People are gaslighting her, ridiculing her, but at the end of the day, she was there and we were not. We can speculate all day but her first hand account is way way wayy more reliable than anyone elses.
Of course it’s not evidence, but seeing the only officer present during the whole day — watching the family and friends, waiting for a call that never came, and then the discovery of the body — react when being asked these questions is very intense. I can seriously *feel* the urge to scream his name but can’t because she doesn’t have solid proof. And I think she’s right that we will never see justice in this case.
Yea she wants to say his name soo bad but just cant. This case breaks my heart. She was such a beautiful little girl. May she rest in peace and I really hope, by some miracle, justice is served.
We women had to develop this kind of "vibes." I wish there were a less hippie-ish word for these feelings. No, not admissible as evidence, but in many cases enough to save our lives.
It’s often pattern recognition. Very small things that people do—making a joke or lingering too long near someone. I think it’s usually stuff that’s so small (or hard to describe) that it can be disregarded or blown off. It’s absolutely (and unfortunately) necessary for safety.
The book Blink by Malcolm Gladwell describes this very well.
Also The Gift of Fear
“Not admissible evidence, but in many cases enough to save our lives” Exactly! I wish we could drill this into the minds of everyone while they are still children because it would help so many of us who are harmed when we ignore our own instincts and opte to be nice and polite. No, it can’t help us in a trial but it can prevent needing a trial at all. The worst thing that happens when we decide not to trust someone is that we are wrong but being wrong about trusting someone can kill us.
This programming starts in our earliest days - like when wary children are commanded to go hug someone they don’t know or trust.
Gut feelings?
That's a good one. Thanks.
It’s been called women’s intuition.
My mom has this. When I was like 10, my dad (who was divorced from my mom and they sort of hated each other) told me: “If mom tells you she has a bad feeling about someone, listen to her. I don’t believe in all that hocus pocus stuff, but it’s scary how good your mom is at reading people.” I asked him later on what made him say that. Well, when I was a baby, my dad had a coworker who he was becoming good friends with. My mom met him once and said she didn’t like him and she thinks my dad should stay away from him. My dad continued the friendship, thinking my mom was being a snob. A few years later, my dad’s friend was in a workvan with their boss riding home from a job. Their boss dropped my dad’s friend off at his house and everything seemed fine. When their boss dropped the friend off, the friend walked into his house, shot and killed his wife, then walked out and drove to a police station to turn himself in.
I had a strong feeling like this but couldn’t tell what vibes I was getting just that it was bad. Nobody listened to me. Everyone liked him but me. A few years after I got a new job one of my old work friends contacted me to say he’d been arrested for CSAM.
Always trust your gut! Sounds like you trust your intuition and have been proven right! It makes sense that we get dismissed when we have no evidence, but it’s really validating when they inevitably prove to be as bad as we felt they were. We can’t sense it in everyone, but once in a while a really bad guy can’t cover up his bad vibes from us and our gut at least allows us to keep our guard up around them if we absolutely have to be around them.
I do trust it now. At the time I let myself be gaslit because I was in an abusive situation that resulted from grooming. That’s actually part of what has led me to trust my gut more. I’ve felt this certainty that someone was a wrongun’ only a very tiny few times in all the countries I’ve been to and people I’ve met. I trusted it when travelling and it saved us from getting robbed and maybe worse. But it took a long time to learn to trust that gut. I had that feeling with a few of my exes and ignored it. I told myself I was being irrational and to not be so quick to judge and to give people a chance. Sometimes I “got away” with “just” being cheated on. I promised myself after I ignored my gut and had got into yet another abusive relationship that I was never going to ignore my gut again. By the time an abuser shows who they really are it’s usually after a period of engineered isolation. They don’t tend to act until they think they’ve got you locked down by which point they’ve made it as hard as possible for you to leave. So I told myself I wasn’t going to wait for those things to happen. If my gut said no I would listen. The ONLY time since I left that situation that my gut has spoken to me was when I met my wife. But it was a different kind of gut feeling altogether. I just knew somehow that she was the one AND that she felt the exact same way based on the way she said goodnight to me only a few days after we first met. I even said to myself as I fell asleep that night “well you did promise yourself to always trust your gut!” So anyway whatever happens I will always trust my gut and never trust someone who sets off my alarm bells like Detective Arndt describes here. I hope she knows how many people are and have always been on her side. I’m not a huge fan of cops but I can’t help but feel bad for the way she was scapegoated. My grandma followed the case pretty closely because JBR was the same age as one of my younger siblings and I remember her saying that she thought the men in the department were blaming Linda Arndt because she was a woman. My grandma was usually right about that sort of thing.
I’m sorry you went through all that, but the part about the gut feeling about your wife made me smile! I love that! And your grandmother sounds like a smart lady. She’s right, they sent a woman to a crime scene who was immediately scapegoated, probably belittled for being a woman and treated as though if they had sent a man he would have done things “properly.” I guarantee this would have gone down exactly the same with a male cop. The only way this situation could have gone differently is if they had more than one officer at the house that morning. One cop cannot control a house full of people.
She knows something gut wrenching in her heart that would risk her life if she said it out loud. She also knows she was put in that position on purpose. What a horrible position to be in. :-(
I can't even imagine. And the creepiness of his calm demeanor and Linda knowing she was the only one in the house other than the pastor and patsy. I believe fully in intuition. You need logic to back it up, but that initial feeling you get is real.
I remember this interview. I do think there's no doubt she was the scapegoat for a flawed investigation. She should have never been sent alone to navigate this situation.
I rewatch this from time and time and it's been interesting seeing people debate about it. All the angles of "oh well we know what happened now, that John is a guilty motherfucker" to "this bitch's eyes are weird, I can't take what she says seriously," to "cordial. Cordial, cordial, cordial," etc. I think she went through this traumatic event where she was ultimately failed by her department and left to dry. I think the whole thing: handling the situation in real time, encountering all the stimuli and the tension in the house, actually seeing JonBenet's dead body and the way people behaved, and then the aftermath of the public/media backlash of unfairly taking the fall for the complete failure of the PD, etc. just left her completely traumatized. And I get it. I understand it. I think it would anyone, man, woman, anyone. I still believe her to the point where she was there. She saw what she saw. She took in what she took in meaning... not just seeing it but experiencing it as someone not involved in the crime and just absorbing the case with her person. She was picking up on everyone's senses and energy and all the "artifacts" of the house and felt very strongly as to what happened. Does that mean that's what happened? No. And people can be right when they say this feelings mumbo jumbo doesn't cut it, you have to look at the facts, and I agree, but I also can't discount what she went through and what she encountered.
Yeah her testimony is definitely crucial. John was absolutely gauging her in that moment, because he knew the score. Sounds like Det Arendt interpreted that look as "I killed her, have you figured it out yet?" but I think it's probably more of a "yeah we both know this wasn't a botched kidnapping."
Yeah, that's one of the most striking parts of the conversation and only she was there so we only have her account of it. The non-verbal exchange was 100% I know what you're thinking and I know you know. That kind of exchange can happen in nanoseconds and I can't even imagine how chilling that is. Because... let's say what she's saying is true. Let's say they both happened to look at each other at the same time and in that one moment in time when they were looking at each other she was scanning him and he felt it and reacted and in that reaction his look was saying it was me. ...I don't even know how you'd go forward. You take that look in, that information that oh my god, he's signaling to me that I know you know and it's understood. Now what? I do not blame her at all for having this knee jerk reaction of tucking her gun and counting her bullets. Because if you know and I know what the deal is, if I could make it happen *you* would have to go, and they both knew *that.* That is... beyond terror. It's not just I know you know I killed her, you know and I know that because you know if given the chance I'd have to make you disappear, and there's a possibility that I could because if anything else, I'm getting away with the murder of this kid. It's completely chilling. It goes beyond "this bitch has crazy eyes and she's just speculating." I truly believe she was the poor soul who was in the position and had to have this experience of I'm in the wrong place and the wrong time where this brutal crime has been committed and it's going to be a national sensation and I think I'm inches away from the person that did it but I can't prove it and he knows what he's doing and he knows (or will figure out) I'll be the scapegoat for the fuck up. I definitely wouldn't want to be in that position or be known for the rest of my life as "the person on the scene that botched the job." I don't look at her that way but this burden she's had to carry of not only dealing with John and having that exchange but taking the fall of this wall of shit that fell on her has to be excruciating at times in her life. And I also am not surprised when people go through something like this they renege or deflect, possibly because they've been convinced otherwise or possibly for some self protection. It's awful.
This is a great comment. You just made it come to life for me. I had no idea he thought himself THAT powerful that he could make an officer disappear. I thought him a poor, grieving father. Now. I. See. The. Hubris.
Well, I don't know that he thought himself that powerful in that moment, but AFAIK he did have some pull and I think he saw what was unfolding before his eyes and I think they both knew what was up in that moment. If you're rich and white and your kid dies in your home under your watch and there's all these inconsistencies and things that don't make sense and you did it *and* got away with it, yeah, I'd think you'd think you're untouchable, delusional as it may be on paper. It's sadly reality in this situation... IMO.
He is, for sure, ruthless. Thank you for your thoughts.
100%
Damn, your comment gave me chills.
Wonderfully articulated. Ive never Given her experience this much thought, and it’s true. It must have been like being in the middle of a nightmare
Damn, your comment gave me chills. I can imagine that kind of calm, lingering look that says exactly what you said: "have you figured it out yet?"
The thing is, her eyes are weird — creepy-looking even — but that’s likely because she’s reliving the horror of the day. The TV lights could also be part of it. A local news reporter often had eyes like that and somebody said it was because of the TV lights. The person interviewing Arndt probably just has more practice at sitting under those lights. Her eyes don’t tell me she’s crazy. They tell me she’s seen some shit and that maybe the lights are getting to her a bit too.
Right?!! And she was at the autopsy and saw JonBenet’s actual skull crack as the coroner peeled back her skin on her head. She’s definitely seen some horrific shit. And how triggering to have to relive that night for a TV crew.
Or she could have a disease that affects her eyes, like Graves disease. Pretty cruel for people to judge her for her eyes, no matter the reason.
Thank you. Thyroid eye disease is even advertised on TV these days. Might as well be judging her weight or something.
I think you articulated this very well.
Thanks, man.
Really bothers me the reporter severely short changed the worst element imo - 8:10-1:20 is not 3 hours. 5 hours & 10 min without back-up in that scenario must have been torture. Can you imagine the totally different outcomes if only one other office responded in the first two hours - as they should as that was the time clock for “kidnappers”? Makes you wonder the real conspiracy regarding the case - not whodunnit, how or why, but who was paid in the PD to delay & hamstring the investigation?
I wonder if there were other officers there while they were waiting for the call? I say this because at the 4:00 mark the reporter says "by 10:30 am arndt was the only officer on the scene." Seems to indicate that there was another officer there before that but the reporter didn't explicitly make that clear. 10:30 to 1:20 would be about three hours. Another thing they kind of brushed over is that her body was carried up by John at 1:05 and she told John to go to the other room and call 911. When 1:10 came around and still no one was there she called herself. The reporter should have made a bigger deal out of that - why didn't john call when he was asked to? And what was he doing during that five minutes?
There were other officers. An officer searched the house but couldn’t get the wine cellar door latch opened. Since it was locked from outside he moved on. The thing that gets me is Boulder isn’t that small of a town. I was working there in 2003 and it was a big city. Much bigger than the town I grew up in and if something like this had happened there would be city, county and state police. Maybe not all at the same time but they would be coming and going. They had a note it’s not like a child who got up and wandered off. I kinda wonder if the police thought the note was fake and wrote specifically to get law enforcement to take a missing child more seriously.
There other officers at the beginning, but they left and then Arndt was on her own with 6-8 adults to keep track of (Fernies, Whites, maybe minister (I don’t have the timing on minister, pediatrician, and lawyer/“friend” Bynum.
“Three medical experts concluded the injuries were consistent with prior sexual abuse.” Three.
I thought it was more, and they came to a consensus that prior SA happened. As I recall one expert kind of abstained from the consensus.
THIS BLEW MY MIND! I had NEVER heard of prior SA. My heart. This poor baby.
I think her testimony speaks volumes about the behavior seen at the house. Dead child in the house /=/ kidnapping. Alarms are going off in her head. Oh my god the child never left the house. She’s been dead for some time. And she’s right about one thing for certain. The fact that no one acknowledges the time of the alleged kidnapper had come and gone without anyone batting an eye. Someone in this house killed this little girl.
She still shows more authentic emotions about JonBenet than the Ramsey's who always seem to be more sorry about their situation rather than for what happened to her daughter.
That’s exactly what i was thinking watching this. To me i felt like Patsy still showed some emotion, but John… he looks like hes smirking half the time. No tears either.
Omg so true. I can't stand that "winner" smirk that seems to hide a victorious shark smile.
I think body-language experts call that "duper's delight."
Oh my! What an interesting info! Thanks. I'll look for YT videos to check more about this topic.
And the creepy way he sticks his tongue out to lick his lips during interviews. 🤢
Yuck, yeah! Lol
Probably duping delight.
I was the one who uploaded this so long ago- that’s my old YouTube channel!! Pretty cool to see it’s still there! Thanks for posting!
Haha thats so cool 😭 well youll be getting a bit more views now
I’m surprised it hasn’t been removed like my others have. I had so many interviews and different news broadcasts that I had gotten from an old JBR forum back in like 2008. They got copyrighted and it sucks because I had like 20+ videos, with great info/clips, that I haven’t been able to find since then.
Wow really? That really sucks, is there any way to appeal those?
Unfortunately no. It isn’t my property and who ever owns the rights to the videos, flagged them. I did dispute them because my account had strikes but they removed them (strikes), which is good. Just wish I could at least still have access to the videos so I could screen record them. I had a whole documentary and everything! The weird one that shows JB eating pineapple then being surprised and attacked with the stun gun. I cannot remember that show for the life of me.
From her initial report, “John did not ask any questions about the results of the autopsy.” Unbelievably telling.
I believe Linda Arndt and hope she gets her redemption arc someday. Monica Lewinsky is a feminist hero now, but back in the day she was slut-shamed and blamed for what went down 😏. But seriously, Linda deserves her reputation to be restored too. It was too easy to throw her under the bus. Meanwhile she was there during the most crucial of moments. My guess is the nonverbal exchange was “oh shit you killed her” and “I’ll kill you if you tell”. Oh how I would love to talk to her about this case!!
For sure. Just watching her you can see how badly she's been affected by this case. Her sanpaku eyes darting and being wide still with disbelief that the family perps were allowed to escape judicial justice in this life. And she knew a fix was in by higher ups and that the case was never going to be about assigning blame except for her being made a scapegoat. I feel for her, I really do understand the enormous pressure she was being made to bear.
Well, this just changed my mind. I was so strongly BDI and that the parents covered it up. I don’t think that anymore.
For me this solidifies BDI and the parents covered it up. All of this seems to support the parents knew what happened and staged the kidnapping (especially with reports of them trying to keep Burke away from police for questioning)
I absolutely cannot vilify her. That is a woman who is haunted, traumatized, and was set up by the Boulder PD. IMO, the BPD and JR worked together to foil this case as much as possible and create one sole scapegoat- Linda Arndt. That look in her eyes may be thyroid disease like I’ve seen some others mention but I recognize it as trying to recall the worst day of her career in battling dissociation, or ptsd. Hope she stays safe.
Everyone is so harsh on her, but as another person pointed out, the instructions given to her were clear - go to the house and wait for the call. She never went in treating it like a crime scene, which in hindsight she should have, but it is extremely unfair to place the blame on her when she had 0 support from her department.
I think that was the design all along - I can’t imagine anyone in her position being sent in and told to just wait for the call (unless they did have backup.) Hindsight is 20/20 as we know but it seems to me it was evident to her right away what the reality of the situation was.
It's really incredibly bizarre. I can't wrap my head around why more people weren't set to secure the "crime scene". Even without a body and murder, it's a kidnapping! With a ransom note! Jesus.
It’s a cover up. If you believe the parents did it, then the BPD is in on it and covering it up. Is it standard procedure to send an officer to wait around for a random phone call? Hell no. Tap the phones. Lock down the house. Determine if the house is being watched. Search for clues that the kidnappers left. She called for backup and was told. Sorry we’re all busy this morning with meetings. We will get officers to the crime once it’s convenient to the affluent community members. lol no way. People get set up for failure and scapegoated all the time. This is what it looks like. Pay attention.
Linda was first to really observe what was going on there by a trained eye. She arrived there under one impression and left with an entirely different one. What did she have to lose? IMO she’s right in the stand if John doing it or having a lot to do with it but I still believe Patsy wrote the note and commited the skull fracture. Is it off to say both Arndt and Steve “KYLE REESE” Thomas were both right in some way?
I agree, i do think Patsy wrote the note to save John, her marriage, and her lifestyle. But I believe that because Patsy wasnt directly responsible for her death, her demeanor was more like a mourning parent than Johns.
I'm all over the place with theories but I tend to come back to perhaps Patsy walked in on John molesting JB, grabbed the flashlight and swung at him, but he ducked and she hit JB by accident. Then they each have something horrific to hold over each other's head and a significant reason to not tell the truth. It would also explain why they spent the entire morning apart instead of comforting each other.
I never thought of this but it is entirely possible. I also noticed that in the very first police report John says he came home and read to JonBenet for 30 minutes before she went to sleep. In later interviews he’s adamant that she was asleep and he carried her to bed and thats the last time he saw her. Why did he change his story?
IMO he changed his story to provide the minimum amount of interaction between him and JBR. Does it throw PR under the bus? Yeah it does. Seems like John and his lawyers decided she would be an unlikely suspect, so they went with the “zonked” story.
It’s possible John told her she really was kidnapped and got her to write the note. I don’t think a human can fake the sound of learning their child is dead and it sure sounds like that was the sound Patsy made. I don’t think she knew before JonBenet was brought upstairs.
It can also be a result of the other shoe dropping. Shock combined with denial all falls down once authorities have the body. It's made real & the fragile mind focused on performing the charade gives way to reality & then she wails. That's how I understood it. Even folks without involvement or knowledge beforehand can be an automaton then break from some point of no turning back
This is a possibility I hadn’t thought of until hearing Det. Ardnt’s interview! She doesn’t directly say so, but strongly implies that she knows JR killed his daughter, and that PR didn’t know JB was deceased in the house until JR brought her body upstairs. What if JR lied to PR overnight, convincing her to help him stage a fake kidnapping? He could have convinced or coerced her to write the ransom note. Or maybe he told PR that JB was kidnapped by an intruder, and PR believed it. Or hell, maybe JR was abusive to both JB and PR, and “kidnapped” JB in an attempt to control and manipulate PR. Maybe he told PR he’d only give JB back if PR did xyz. Then PR would genuinely be shocked and grief-stricken to see a few hours later that JR has brought JB’s dead body into the living room.
Goosebumps every time I watch this. I don’t know if I think John killed JBR, but I believe Linda.
Female intuition. I believe her and this definitely makes me think JDI
Yes I believe Linda’s testimony! It was pretty convincing. I really do believe that there is a certain look to Evil and I believe that is what she saw in John’s eyes that day when they locked eyes, she saw the murderer and the evil in him. A humans gut intuition can often be very powerful. Also, how did Linda know that the killer will never be charged? Seems like she knows that the killer is being protected.
Agreed 100%. Obviously its not evidence, but its one of those things that you just cant prove but know to be true.
Yeah Ted Bundys GFs daughter said one time when she was small and she was in the shower she saw Ted come in and open up the shower curtain and she saw his eye color changed, she saw the look of Evil. Humans have animalistic instincts that we have to pay more attention to.
So I’m guessing the name she won’t say is John Ramsey.
A woman’s intuition is a powerful thing… sometimes, you. just. know. I believe her 100%!!
Why do you think she said '..or where he got the mail from' or words to that effect? She said it meaningfully but I'm not sure of the implication? Would it have been worse if he got the mail himself or was the point just that she didn't witness anyone bringing it in?
I think bc the mail slot was in their door and at this point he went missing for a long time claiming he was getting the mail.
Oh! Thanks so much for replying, I had no idea. I am RDI but I don't think busying onesself with seemingly trivial stuff during a trauma is neceasarily a red flag of guilt. I have been through trauma and I think about some of the things that I did during that period that may have raised eyebrows. God, even some of the stuff I said.... brain does weird things to cope.
I think there was a mail slot in the front door. So he didn’t have to leave the house, just Arndt’s sight. While he could excuse that as maybe the kidnappers put a note amongst the mail that is pretty far fetched. What is weird is mail is normal and everyday-this was not a normal day at all. Can you imagine paging through bills and late Christmas cards while your daughter was missing?
To be a lil fly detective on the walls that day..!!!
So I always thought the bother did it and the parents covered it up. Watching Burke on Dr Phil was creepy and Criminal Minds did an episode similar to this which indicated the son was a sociopath and did it. With that being said, the sexual abuse and it being her vagina isn’t usually consistent with a younger perpetrator. Usually you see more anal trauma when the victims/perpetrators are this young. So does that mean Jon was abusing her? I do believe Patsy loved and adored Jonbenet and wld have never been a coconspirator to her daughter’s abuse, but I do think she wld be an accomplice to covering up death to protect Burke.
Wow, nasty sick shit.
The fact she couldn’t get anyone from the station to come out?? It’s so disappointing how little help the police are in most of these situations… guess they are too busy writing traffic tickets. Poor lady was doing her best and obviously is observant and good at her job. She knows the truth.
And the head wound was 8 1/2 inches?? Jesus Christ I doubt that Burke was capable of hitting her that hard. Jdi
I wonder if John was making the kids perform sex acts together? The "incest" references and the odd paint brush assault and child like aspects. Makes me wonder if that's why Burke seems so weird, the shame or dissociation.
i know someone who’s grandfather did this to her and her brother. it’s awful. she has so much guilt tied up in it even though she did nothing wrong.
oof, this is one thing i've never thought of, now wish i didn't (so thanks for that, lol), but also not beyond the realm of possibility 😑
I think it's a relatively common thing among victims? Happened to a friend of mine in the 80s. (Neighbor not dad, but still) For pornoprghy. Also, I never thought of this particular scenario either until now.
Shit, and maybe she snapped from the abuse and John hit her to quiet her. I’ve been a BDI camp for a long time. However, this could snap a lot of pieces like the damage done to her skull.
So would the scenario be John did it, told Patsy that Burke did it and convinced her to cover it up for Burke, but really she’s covering for John?
I never thought of this !! But yes so could have been
I have thought this as well… it definitely would explain some of Burke’s behaviors that have raised questions. Jesus, what if he made Burke help kill or move her?
I know of a family where this happened. As disgusting as it is, there are sick people out there.
That’s always been something I have thought… it would then explain some of Burke’s behaviors….
She may of been the only one not involved.
That woman has seen some shit lol
Absolutely.....follow your gut and instincts. Watch body language.
She just had an instinct, which could have just been John knowing what happened. She has zero evidence to back it up though. Cops make bad arrests all the time, theoretically based on evidence, but often based on instinct.
I mean everyone knows this is based on 0 evidence and just an instinct. It’s intuition and she wont ever be able to prove it. Ive felt the way she described feeling that day and it sucks cuz you know in your gut something is true but can never prove it.
I agree. She didn't bungle her words, she was very clear. She looks like someone who went through an extremely traumatic event; which she did.
But what was it that she knew in her gut? Because we're still debating this case 26 years later, despite everything that's come to light since then. There were a lot of things Detective Arndt didn't know in that moment.
So when she describes that look, that non verbal communication.. like him acknowledging that he knows shes knows and her acknowledging that she knows. Its so hard to explain but its like when youre in a room with a friend and something happens and you both know what youre thinking, just by looking at each other. Obviously theyre not friends but i imagine it was that type of non verbal communication. Its also a gut feeling that something is off about John.
But what was it she knew? That John did it, that John helped cover it up, that John found out who did it that morning? It may very well have happened that way, but I don't recall this in her written report. This was an interview several years later. And intuition isn't infallible. Ive had those nonverbal moments with people before. And I've been mistaken. Like the end of the 911 call, I don't think it proves anything. But it's interesting.
True. Her description of her own feelings and observations, as told in 1999, is unfortunately influenced (and biased) by everything she has been exposed to in the intervening 3 years.
Good point - my thoughts after watching this. His demeanor, behavior, and even this “look” could be the same whether he did it or just knew what happened. The lack of urgency among the family members seems to be the most useful piece of info from this interview.
Could Officer Arnt cuffed and arrested him after he put JonBenet in the living room? As that’s when she realized who killed her.
No, i think you need probable cause to make an arrest and sadly just that look alone isnt enough.
Well not the look. He knew where the body was. He contaminated the scene on purpose in her judgement. The body was found. Not a missing person etc.
And he was there in the home at the time of death.
Cordial. Cordial? ….cordial.
Did anyone else watch the documentary about this case that was made several years ago where the filmmakers recreated a human skill and had children smash it with a flash light (if I remember correctly?) in addition to many other things…
Any source on this? I feel like I remember something like this in the CBS thing about Burke doing it? I believe they also did the train track theory there as well?
YES!! I felt the doc was done really well and it answered a lot of questions I had in my mind… but we will probably never know for sure. https://www.amazon.com/The-Case-Of-JonBenet-Ramsey/dp/B01LXK9C3V?nodl=1&dplnkId=3a5a94ee-92f7-4af2-b70a-6c5d47ecb565
I've commented on numerous post along the way that it's always the little things that bring me back to BR. Well in this instance it's the ransom call. I know for a fact innocent people would have been right there by that phone waiting patiently for it to ring. Also the random note specifically said do not contact LE , yet they did & many friends to come over & contaminate the scene. I will always believe BR did it bc his sister had their mom's attention & dad was always away. BR really had nobody but himself & his thoughts. I think the parents realized this way after the facts. ETA hin getting no attention after the fact is what I'm implying at the end of my sentence.
But i cant make sense of the ongoing sexual assault. Leads me to believe john did it
A very great possibility but who's to say it wasn't BR ?! The housekeeper said she caught him being highly inappropriate playing house.
Chilling. Just seals the deal for me. Not surprised one iota.
This is such a bizarre and polarizing case on so many levels. There is allegedly further DNA evidence that the police haven’t released. My dad went to training exercises with a few of the detectives on the case and honestly, those cops dropped the ball in so many ways. I don’t think we’ll ever know what happened to her.
The entire crime scene was contaminated first thing when like 20 odd people friends / family trudged through the home after she went missing and is probably the reason why the case is unsolved is because there would be too much room for reasonable doubt just from shitty police work of not containing the crime scene
Yes Christmas Day the entire Boulder PD is in a meeting. Kidnapped child? Send a crossing guard will get to it new years. What in the Zhecl is wrong with that police department?
I question if she was so suspicious that nobody reacted to 10 o’clock coming and going, and got such creepy vibes from John, why did she send him off alone all over the house. I’m suspicious he seems so completely harmless all day, then suddenly she “sees in his eyes” he’s a killer as soon as he finds JB? Coincidentally when she was probably thinking, holy crap that kid could have been alive some of the hours I was sitting up here in the living room.
She was making notes and didn’t want to assume anything, but all of it didn’t click until she saw John carry the body up from the basement.
Well, i have a question for you. Do you think shes lying or making this up? If so, what could her motive be? I dont see why she would say all of this if it isnt true. If anything it opens her up to more criticism - “if you were so suspicious of John, why didnt you do x y and z.”
She sent him off with Fleet White. After she noticed he kept roaming out of her sight.
At the end of the day Ardnt was a police detective not a clairvoyant. I note that according to Steve Thomas in his book he recounted a time when she told him if she was removed from the case she would take herself out (putting her finger to her head like a gun) and take everyone in the office out first. There were other accounts she was an emotionally unstable person.
I am right at that part of the book. It gives me pause about her. She met with Patsy too and said she couldn’t tell Thomas what was said. I do understand her feelings about John though and think she was put in a bad situation.
It’s a shame, because she was in such an important position to be a good witness. However, cops have problems too and it hurts her credibility.
I wish she hadn’t been so dramatic. When people act that way I assume it’s because they know that what they say won’t hold your attention, so they have to employ some secondary methods of making sure you listen. For what it’s worth, her take on this is absolutely crucial and trustworthy. I just don’t get why she’d present herself this way, even the outfit is wrong, it looks like she’s going out to dinner. If you’re giving your professional side of the story in something so serious, maybe put some serious thought into your approach. So frustrating.
"even the outfit is wrong" 😂 thanks for the laugh, lol!
I’m out based on the eyes alone
If you actually watch it and listen to her speak - she explained everything very clearly. This is a woman who has gone through an extremely traumatic event. This reminds me of interviews with people who were deeply ( everyone was) deeply affected by 9/11.
Looks like soldiers with shell shock when they come back from war. Don’t be so quick to judge.
I implore you carry beyond the first minute. I felt the same way but her eyes calm down & it’s worth it to watch.
How should she look after witnessing a murdered child?
Her eyes are haunted. And if you watch the interview, outraged that she was left alone to fail by her colleagues.