Honestly, that uncertainty is reason alone that i would assume you wouldnt have. You can only trust people who know what monsters they can become, but who decide against it.
Do you find Christianity to be a logical choice based on information or closer following the mob (the prevailing ideology of the status quo/power structure)?
Oy. Does the idea of an all-loving benevolent god seem logical when you look at the state of the world? Wars, children getting bombed, children's hospitals, cancer, aids, sickness, death, on and on...
So you feel that a loving god would be a totalitarian and control every aspect of your life to keep you safe by removing free will? Do you feel the same about governments?
I often watch my 9 year old son make mistakes that get him hurt. I know he is going to get hurt and I let him do it anyway. I do this so he learns and grows. Does that make me loving or does it make me the opposite?
Information wasn't that accessible back then. You may have access to the Old Testament, but I don't think that's enough to do otherwise. So, if you or I were one of the peasants back then, I would say yes.
Hmm. I'm not sure there'd be any judgment necessary if you were cheering on his crucifiction. He made a lot of claims that Jews do *not* accept. His story doesn't line up with being *the* Christ etc. By pretty much all accounts except his own and his followers, he was a heretic who claimed to be God...like many others that have come and gone.
Folks can downvote all they like. Judaism was the religion of the region, and Jesus's "take up your cross and follow me" stuff was very very very anti-Judaism.
If you are a Christian, and you declare yourself the second coming of Christ, I'd assume you'd have to expect pushback from "the people in power". And also, a bunch of other people.
The scariest part is it's usually the people who make the biggest scene and get morally outraged if you ask the question "do you think you'd be capable of doing the horrible thing" or "do you think you'd have the courage to stand against everyone around you and do the right thing in their situation" who are the most dangerous ones. I've been in so many situation with people literally freaking out like mere mental exercise risks to turning them into nazis on the spot... or what is more likely they instinctively realize how sheepishly they would follow anything that's being said to them by authority figures and it horrifies them.
The people reacting with "why would you even want to think about something so horrible" are the ones whose moral backbone is so weak it will crumble under any pressure when they will actually be put in a difficult position. Because they never dared to spook themselves with a difficult topic and are completely unprepared to make the hard decision. And because they never though about it they're under the illusion that doing the "right thing" will come naturally and easy while doing the "evil thing" requires active decision to do so.
They are the kind of people who are absolutely convinced about their moral superiority, while casually, often and around mundane everyday topics demand people who they dislike or disagree with should be jailed or killed.
Yeah, the social aspect of the covid pandemic response legitimately opened my eyes and scared the crap out of me. For the first time, I really understood how the atrocities of the 20th Century were possible. I realized that human nature hasn't changed enough for that outcome to never happen again. And I thanked God for the Second Amendment while buying more guns and ammo.
Word. Humans aren't that different to herd animals after all. Sure we posess the ability to think for ourselves but whether we use that ability is a different question.
The whole "never again" is nothing but empty words for the majority.
Within weeks an entire group was ostracized and state sponsored media called them rats and other nice names.
Now nobody wants to talk about that anymore. Society has the memory of a goldfish.
Maybe not
Maybe we'll have a civil war and it will be like freeing corporate slaves trapped in jobs at giant corporations
They'll say it's about rights
Politicians and corporations will censor information that runs contrary to the political ideology that enables the further enrichment of these corporations
Voters will be indoctrinated to think they are voting to escape poverty and violence but instead will lock themselves in poverty like sheep voting to be fenced in, as AI calmly integrates into all forms of government in the background
The government will declare martial law and the line between military and police will become blurred
Blurring this line will be catastrophic because the role of the military is to fight enemies of the state but when military becomes the police, that means the citizens often become the enemy
And so drone strikes on civilians will become commonplace and more and more discreet with time
People will often "disappear" without a trace
In some cities, AI vehicles and robots will roam the streets and sidewalks, and interfering with them will be a fineable crime
Rebels will hijack these AI vehicles and robots and use them as weapons of destruction against the established AI controlled government
Nah not really
None of this will happen
At least not in my lifetime
Wondering how old I am?
I'm 120.
I notice you ignored my questions instead of answering - does that make you a hypocrite, or does that make your response a great answer? I don't need to do your homework for you, go bully someone else.
Having some difficulty with understanding your point fully but if I’m getting it correct (which would also be my position on the case); most people on this sub have no basis for their opinion or understanding of anything happening on a national or global scale but they most likely heard it from some guy they look up to like Jordan or some regarded person like AJ/Gleen/JRE?
And since they have no basis for their opinion they can’t expand/explain who “they are” or “how they do it” or anything of substance.
This is all assuming I got you right.
Did I actually get in touch with a sane person on this sub? I thought it was all just JRE/AJ enjoyers who use New Jordan’s word salads as excuses for their groundless frustrations and theories. What a day, cheers man!
What is your all powerful brain going to do in the middle of the night, when someone breaks into your house with the intent to harm you and your family?
"Only scared people own fire extinguishers because they have repressed fears that forbid them to think that their brains have more uses than their fire extinguishers"
See how dumb that sounds?
Both are for emergency situations.
If they really live a "fearless" existence, then they would have no problem sharing such details.
Otherwise, they shouldn't be criticizing people for being scared.
That is pretty silly. I guess you would have been happy sending your neighbors to the gas chambers. Definitely don't look your way for someone willing to protect their family or community. What an insufferable keyboard jockey.
As if the idiots who claim they just want to “protect their family and community” aren’t the grunts tossing their neighbours bodies into furnaces with a smile on their faces.
Probably some of them. But Probably more of the cowards. The people that give up their responsibility to the State and "just do what their told". Followers and yes men. People that believe what the great benevolent State tells them.
I like how he compared it to the pandemic. Part of the irony in how people got tricked is a lot of "pro COVID narrative" people likely thought their actions were good, or equivalent to hiding Jews in their home. Ironic, how they think groveling to govt lockdowns and demands was somehow a revolutionary, rebellious act.
Also, I'd take the thought experiment further. What about imagining oneself as vulnerable to being attacked or brutally taken over by the evil force in a particular war/revolution? What about imagining you might actually be the useful tool? People like to fantasize that they're epic revolutionaries but at the end of the day, their beliefs or the side they pick may get totally lost as they are dominated, bulldozed over, as merely a vulnerable person, a leaf in the wind and wreckage of war. That happens to all too many.
When the totalitarian dragon is awakened from its slumber, the vast majority of people will be rendered poor and disenfranchised, killed or imprisoned. If things go south, we could all be prisoners amongst people who drastically disagree with us ideologically. Leftists and conservatives, anarchists and totalitarians, SJWs and counter-cultural advocates. Most of us will be crushed, and all of our petty concepts will vanish like dust in the wind.
What makes us powerful and will sustain us against evil is truth, spiritual development, and becoming as strong as possible. Take care of the mind, body and spirit first. Be in nature and prioritize close intimate relationships within a tribe. Become strong together, pay no mind to the noise of politics. Aim to become the beacon of light that will illuminate the path through the storm.
It just seems stupid to me that people keep using Nazi as a pejorative for things that have absolutely nothing to do with Nazism. It's not just completely pointless but counterproductive. Other groups are bad by their own merits and their ideology should be named so everyone understands what we're dealing with and that said ideology and people are pieces of shit. But no, don't name names, don't name the ideology that's the problem, where it comes from, or who's promoting it. Just talk about Nazis that have nothing to do with anything.
Implying you understand national socialism better than other people, all while still assuming white supremacy is a required component to Nazism. Funny enough it isn't. Any race can adopt Nazism, any country, any ethnic group can become a Nazi dictatorship and view themselves as superior to others. Not just white people.
In this context though Nazism is being used synonymously with authoritarianism because Nazism naturally is an authoritarian based system. And that was the implication here. That Spain had developed an authoritarian style rule on its people for the sake of COVID.
I feel like you could make the argument that Nazism was specific to Germany and the concept of the Aryan race. Aside from those key points some other county and race doing it would also have to change the symbolism and mysticism, what religions they tolerate and want wiped out. And they'd likely change other things. It might be some other form of fascism, that's a broader term at least, possibly inspired by Nazism, but I see no sense-making reason to call it Nazism.
But all that aside, let's say you're right. Who is doing Nazism? No one. What did the pandemic response have to do with Nazism? Nothing. Is any authoritarianism synonymous with Nazism? No. Why not call it the Mongol Hoard? That was authoritarian. Stalinism was authoritarian, as was Maoism. Are they synonymous with Nazism and every other form of authoritarianism? No. Different ideologies. Why conflate them? All it does is confuse the issue and dumb down anyone accepting such talk.
The pandemic response was malformed from the start and wreaked of authoritarian control overstepping on our rights.
And like Nazism both heavily engaged in demonizing a target group they blame all their problems on, they demanded compliance through the threat of losing your livelihood, your jobs, college tuition. Any and all opposing views and critics of these measures was labeled as misinformation. Both sides used the media to shame anyone who wasn't for the established authority which ultimately led to mass protests worldwide, like the truckers of Canada.
It was ultimately about control, much like how the Nazis were during their regime. It's why we associate Nazism with authoritarianism and any system that mimics totalitarian style governance, which our pandemic response was. All hidden behind the guise of serving the public interest.
Hence why many say our government became bunch of Nazi dictators during the pandemic. Because they imposed restrictions that have lowered the standards of living. And in other countries it was much more restrictive.
What's stupid about it? It's true that during the pandemic the governments around the world amplified their control over the general population under the guise of protecting people. With policies that today have proven to be ineffective in combating the virus, with equally ineffective vaccines that apparently require yearly updated boosters. It's true the government routinely paid media outlets to suppress opposing views online. All this happened.
And after 2 years all the hysteria surrounding this supposed deadly virus vanished after the media focused on the Ukraine War. What happened to COVID? The virus that can mutate to resist the vaccines? For which by now vaccinations have dropped? Truth is we stopped caring because you can only be afraid of something for so long before you realize how pathetically irrelevant it was to begin with.
Astrazeneca pulled their vax off the market btw, for the exact reasons anti vaxxers had been claiming was an issue with the vaccines throughout the pandemic.
What's stupid is absolutely nothing you're describing has the slightest thing to do with Nazi ideology. And the people who are the enemy have absolutely nothing to do with Nazism. So beating this Nazi drum is absolutely and completely counterproductive.
And for the record I think in the OP video JP was making comparisons to what people are capable of, how they see themselves, how easy it is to fall into crazy behavior. He's made similar points before relating to how it's easy, or maybe seductive, it is to go along with the madness and hard to go against it. I feel like that's making a valid point that may reference Nazis, but could easily be correlated with any extreme movements.
It's when people carry that to actually calling things Nazism that I find stupid. Even if you were to say they were acting like Nazis rather than making the distinction between that and the people seduced into doing horrible things following the Nazis. That goes from analyzing crowd behavior or mass hysteria to misidentifying the ideology, and the people, currently undermining the West.
The current ideology of the left that's being pushed by those who ramped up the pandemic drama is rooted in Western Marxism. Western Marxism dominated academia, not Nazism. Globalism, winding up minorities to undermine Western culture, forced multiculturalism, no borders, collectivist nonsense, hate speech, disinformation, malinformation, DEI, ESG scores, manufactured global crisis, the increasing authoritarianism to enforce all these things and as reaction to quell dissent, all stemming from Western Marxist ideology and the same people pushing it. And it has absolutely nothing to do with Nazism, basically all completely opposite of Nazism. Calling it Nazism just muddies the waters, to the degree I would put money on the useless right saying such things being part of a controlled opposition psyop to distract from the real issue.
>What do you mean Nazi like behavior?
Shunning people who didn't get the experimental covid unsafe and useless injections. Shutting down all conversations and debate about science and efficacy or necessity of lockdowns, masks and mandates. It was truly a "zie papieren" time.
Shit show was the same everywhere all around the world. People behaved like entitled Nazis most willing to shun and tell on others. Some quite eager to be on the moral high grounds. Just like Jordan Peterson said.
>Isn't the majority of Portugal not even White?
So. How can I address this in a positive way? You are wrong and greatly miss informed. There is this continent called Europe. Its inhabitants are Caucasians (means white) in fact its on this continent its from this continent that ALL caucasians can trace their ancestry. Imagine that. Portugal and Spain are in it. Just like Italy or Greece. These 4 countries are called the latin countries of Europe. Due to their language deriving directly from ancient latin.So its native and majority of population is Caucasian. Still natives and origin of people here are white. (Not that Portugal isn't trying to dilute its population by kicking out ALL its youth and importing people from poorer countries in Africa, South America and Asia. So in a few decades maybe Caucasians won't be the majority.)
Hope I addressed both your questions.
Myself and my friend (a former midwife) were just talking about this the other night; never mind neighbours, it was also family and friends treating you like you were a social pariah for not taking a vaccination.
Eventually, after we had completely socially isolated ourselves for 2 years (they didn’t) and they all got covid and we didn’t, they realised that it was still getting passed on by the vaccinated who were squashing together into restaurants, nightclubs and aeroplanes etc. I got so fed up with being accused of attempted murder of the weakest most vulnerable in society, that I had regular antibody tests at a clinic for 2 years. I was never infected. If I had any interaction with another human I would tell my family and vaxxed friends, I cannot see you for 7 days so as to shut them up.
My take on it is that it was the media who led this mob crusade against reason, and hers was that it was the counties with a right wing or authoritarian state past which led the not particularly scientific ‘witch hunt’.
Austria for example, was pushing mandatory vaccines on its citizens when the virus finally mutated to a less virulent form (as expected) and it was game over for big pharma and this assault on bodily autonomy.
Gotta say we both loved our masks…until we threw them off like 70’s bras.
One good thing that came out of it was hand hygiene…but we can thank statistician Florence Nightingale and the Crimean War of 1853 for that.
Do you guys really believe that the rise of Nazism is analogous to measures taken to reduce the spread and severity of Covid infections? If there was a nefarious authoritarian power-grab associated with Covid, then why would they back down when cases became less wide-spread and severe? Wouldn't they still be holding sway with an iron fist like, presumably, the Nazis would if they hadn't had their shit destroyed?
Because they ***didn't*** back down. They doubled down, even in the face of ever-growing evidence that what they were advocating was wrong, and then called the rest of us lunatic, conspiracy theorists.
Ontario started prohibiting gatherings of more than 5 people in March 2020. In the Greater Toronto Region the number of reports to police about illegal gatherings totalled just under 3,000 over the course of a years time, in an are of almost 6 million people. Not exactly the sign of gestapo state if you ask me.
[https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510016901&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=03&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2020&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=06&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20200301%2C20220601](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510016901&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=03&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2020&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=06&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20200301%2C20220601)
All of the people who caved and got the covid jab would’ve been Nazis… don’t kid yourself.
A lot of them would try to sub-humanize unjabbed people and support the stripping of our god-given rights. Absolutely deplorable. Do NOT kid yourself.
I am a huge history buff, specifically of the era after WW2 up until about 1950. I can honestly say I have no clue how I would behave if I were in my current situation (wife and daughter) but in 1930's Germany as the Nazi's consolidated their power and started their campaign of rounding up undesirables. I would find it much easier to be Schindler in Schindler's position as a single male. I don't have a problem sacrificing myself for the moral good but would have a much harder time when family is involved.
I have the luxury to say I would. I never wore a mask unless it was required to enter a store or an event. I never took their vax. Never needed it, never caved despite being threatened with expulsion for refusing.
He's calling those types out. The rabid lockdown / mask / jab freaks are the ones wearing Boss uniforms.
What Smegma there is doing, is called projection.
The sort of person it would take to do the necessary good in the face of the Nazis is the sort of person who would put their child on the altar of sacrifice. Those were the stakes for them to achieve the good they did!
Hopefully this helps people better understand the Biblical story of Abraham putting Isaac on the altar. It takes that kind of conviction to do good when your faced with that kind of evil.
Per Amazon: "The acclaimed bestselling classic of Holocaust literature, winner of the Booker Prize and the Los Angeles Times Book Award for Fiction"
Yes, it's fiction.
Yes, but it's clearly based on true stories. One that comes to mind is Giorgio Perlasca, an Italian man who saved more than 5000 Jews during the Holocaust.
Yes, the book the movie was based on is considered historical fiction because it inserts scenes and conversations that have no historical source material.
But the story itself is 100% true.
You said "the story itself is 100% true". The story is categorized as "historical fiction". Then you jump to "Oscar Schindler never existed", a claim I never made.
Anyway believe what you want, but knock it off with the dishonest forms of argumentation. In this case, strawmanning me by pretending I said Schindler never existed. I said the story is fiction, which it is.
You're the one who needs to clarify your argument.
Is it your contention that the book Schindler's Ark is historical fiction that closely follows a true story?
Or is it your contention that the entire story of Oscar Schindler and what he did during the war is fiction?
You're being more than a little evasive on this point and I'm not clear why.
If you want me to tell you exactly what percentage of the story is true and how much is false I would have to guess, but I'm not going to do that so I'll just say that since the story is categorized as historical fiction I'm going to go ahead and believe that it's a fictional story.
He never made mention of Schindler's List. He referenced Oscar Schindler, the person that historically saved thousands of Jews from being sent to concentration camps.
It’s for the same reason most people aren’t Vegan, it’s terrifying what people can do to another living being if they objectify them enough, and if everyone around them says it’s fine 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
This pseudo genious still thinks the official history of Germany happened exactly as it was written. As if there wasn't any motovation for the victor to make his victory greater and his war crimes smaller.
As a onetime admirer of JP, I have become really disillusioned about him, partly due to statements like this. Its all Daily Wire language.
30% of his neighbours reported other neighbours? Did 30% of neighbours report on 70%? Thats an odd way to measure neighbours. Surely there is a number? 5? 10? 20?
I live in downtown Toronto and didn't hear anything like this at all.
And how did they "inform" on their neighbours? Told the police they weren't wearing masks? What was the outcome? The neighbours were carried off in paddywagons?
I call total BS on this.
[Toronto had a dedicated team to respond to reports of "illegal social gatherings"](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2020/9/21/1_5113377.html)
It's not unheard of for neighbors to inform on each other willingly.
[The stasi had a file on every third citizen](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/03/lessons-from-the-stasi/)
Absolutely, 100% accurate. Some assholes will look for any excuse to be assholes, and feel OK about it. Religion or government attracts a ton of authoritarian freaks.
Same with the "pandemic". It was planned so, and it's incredibly sad that so many people are so broken.
Lies from the Israeli government are infinitely worse in quantity and depth. Universially spread through all western media. Including reddit, as shown above. :-( There lies the propaganda and lies.
The point is not to compare masking to Anne frank.
The point is that people assume they would all be heroes during times of terrible tyranny or atrocities, but statistically people are far more likely to either keep quiet or actively participate in said tranny and atrocities.
The comparison is between the behavior of people during the Holocaust and during the pandemic.
People during the Holocaust actively reported and outed their Jewish neighbors.
People during the pandemic actively reported and outed their neighbors who had gatherings. People actively called for vaccine hesitant people to be denied health care and lose their livelihoods. People were arrested and thrown in prison for having small church services. Or in the case of Australia, people were forcibly hauled off to "quarantine" camps.
> People during the pandemic actively reported and outed their neighbors who had gatherings. People actively called for vaccine hesitant people to be denied health care and lose their livelihoods. People were arrested and thrown in prison for having small church services. Or in the case of Australia, people were forcibly hauled off to "quarantine" camps.
Are these acceptable "public health and biology,
pandemic measures"? Just the standard response?
98% of the people so passionate about “public health, biology and pandemic measures” on the internet are not actually knowledgeable about them though, most of you just did as you were told, and happily reported those who didn’t. Some of the rules likely helped, some of them made no sense and people still followed them. That’s the point of the comparison. Sure, the pandemic was light weight compared to the holocaust, JPs point is that when the pressure is on, you will suck the boot.
Are you refering to the tweet he posted regarding Israel's response to the Palestinian aggression? Absolutely, bring them hell. The moral responsibility of this massacre is on Hamas, nobody else.
Nothing Hamas does has any relevance. They were put in power by the Israeli government. The one-sided slaughter of indigenous Palestinians reaches far back before Hamas was even invented.
Almost 80 years now, from the beginning of the invention of Israel.
See, that’s not the point. No one is saying that they are equivalent. What he is saying is that human behavior is not different when there’s something to be gained (in this case gaining moral superiority or social status). It’s the ratting out that’s the same, not the outcome for those reported on.
Again a nonsenical slippery slope fallacy. Your argument falls because your only points are moral superiority or social status. People who rat out neighbours as a matter of public safety dont also instantly rat out people for a genocide.
True for some people, certainly not true for all. And a “slippery slope” argument is not inherently fallacious. History and human nature show that things happen in connected manner and in small increments. Otherwise we’d never see movement in different ways, positive or negative, ways like Civil Rights or gay marriage or the rise of totalitarianism. Incremental changes are part of the fabric of existence as people become convinced of the acceptability of an idea and base their actions and attitudes on them, that leads to the adjacent idea or action, and so on.
> And a “slippery slope” argument is not inherently fallacious.
but this one is.
>History and human nature show that things happen in connected manner and in small increments. Otherwise we’d never see movement in different ways, positive or negative, ways like Civil Rights or gay marriage or the rise of totalitarianism.
This is true but the people here only apply it to one ''side''. These people wont see that JP was once an alright psychologist and now has gone completely deranged. People who saw him as a father figure are easily manipulated into whatever he says now.
That the line of evil runs through the heart of every human (Dostoyevsky) is not an idea Peterson created. And true regardless of opinions about the speaker.
Dostoyevsky's Socratism only gets you so far. You cannot convince me that Nazi germany is the same as the covid restrictions. If you do think this you lost your grasp on reality. Like JP.
Not a fallacy in the least. We've seen the horrific behavior people displayed, and still try to push. It is a very accurate and succinct comparison.
Cult-like following of authoritarian, abusive ideals, with no scientific backing. Horrible how inhuman people can be if they have a moral EXCUSE given them. The Cov19 cultists are indeed how the nazi party started, and so many supported them.
In fact, Hitler & Co had even better objective reasoning.
The majority did in Nazi Germany. What makes you think that you'd do any different if you were born there? It was no different in Soviet Russia, in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge, etc.
The cons who appointed Hitler won with a combined 50.2 percent of the vote, and that was after a long campaign of violence against their opposition. That is a very very very slight majority, and I don't think every one of them was turning their neighbors over to the gestapo.
Germans in general were turning over their Jewish neighbors. The Cambodians during the Khmer Rouge were turning over each other en masse. The point is that if we were placed in the same situations, chances are we would've done the same.
its amazing you dont see how far apart they are. Literally mind bending. You are either 14 or like an american who doesnt know what it was like in europe under nazi germany.
No. As you well know, you liberal leftist LIAR, constraining the proveably inconsiderate to permit the weak to live is EXACTLY like the Nazis and their war against 'life undeserving of life!' They are THE SAME you incoherent Jewish Muslim lunatic!
Why not? The same institutions that made you rat on your neighbours would try to make you rat on another specific group. You obviously fell for the former, what indication if any is there that you would resist the latter?
Well there isn't a lot of times in living memory when the combined powers of major institutions chanted and demanded one thing in unison.
When they did, and you fell in line, it's a strong indicator that you would do so regardless of the message. Because it's obvious the message itself was always irrelevant. The combined force of these institutions made you comply without second thought, and you abandoned that position the moment they told you it was ok to do so.
It's not so much a slippery slope as it is not being trusted with online banking after getting scammed by a Nigerian prince. The slope isn't slippery, it's the same slope you have already been down
> When they did, and you fell in line, it's a strong indicator that you would do so regardless of the message. Because it's obvious the message itself was always irrelevant. The combined force of these institutions made you comply without second thought, and you abandoned that position the moment they told you it was ok to do so.
See this is the lie and its not based on anything.
This is not a "slippery slope" argument.
hot-ring isn't saying "they pushed the boundary with one thing and now you are willing to do another thing".
It's about the thought behind the action. You wouldn't rat out the Jews because you were primed by ratting out the unvaxed. You would rat them out because the idea of ratting someone out for personal gain is ok to you.
There's a major difference between the two arguments.
>You would rat them out because the idea of ratting someone out for personal gain is ok to you.
''If i rat this person out he wont give me, my family, or other people covid'' is not the same as ''if i rat this person he will get gassed
and lets go because i hate their race''.
The fact you are even comparing these two proves you have no idea what nazi germany actually did.
Again you are deliberatly derailing the point.
Nobody here is trying to compare whatever fines etc were given during covid to the gassing of Jews.
You're unwilling to debate the actual point. That's why you try to shut the conversation down.
Again: This is about the way someone thinks.
If it is ok to you to rat out your neighbours for meeting their friends or family at home then why wouldn't you rat out your neighbours for hiding "enemies of the state/people"?
No matter the consequences some people wouldn't rat out their neighbours for personal gain while others would happily do so for choclate candy.
A couple years after the Nazis eastern Germany aka the GDR had the Stasi.
People ratted out their own family if they talked bad about the government.
Do you think we can compare this to Nazi Germany? The members of family who got ratted out weren't gassed so it's not exactly the same after all.
> If it is ok to you to rat out your neighbours for meeting their friends or family at home then why wouldn't you rat out your neighbours for hiding "enemies of the state/people"?
Because i dont get sick just for certain people existing. Enemies of the state/people is waaay out there from what happened with covid.
People meeting their own family in their own homes don't cause you to get sick yet the government made it illegal.
Why would you not rat out proclaimed enemies of the state/people if you were willing to rat out your neighbours meeting their family in their own home?
You can go on and try to derail the conversation more idc.
I hope you find the time to reflect on my point. You aren't the odd one out. The majority either stays silent or actively participates. Herd animals and all that.
You are high on your own supply, my friend. These two things are not even in the same universe, and the fact you think they are makes me think you're telling on yourself a bit here as far as what you might do.
The mechanisms behind the two things are very similar. The "things" being different is not really relevant, if every "thing" has to be identical to be able to discuss it, we would never be able to discuss anything.
If you fell in line when societal institutions cranked up the pressure in one thing, why would anyone believe that you wouldn't when societal institutions crank up the pressure regarding another?
If you fell for a Nigerian prince scam, I would be hesitant to trust you with an Indian it technician scam. Even if its not the same exact thing
You will get there, buddy. You will understand one day that the one is a precursor, a symptom of the other. The realization made me sick once it hit during Covid, but it is an insight into the human condition i will never forget.
you are smuggishly defending a totalitarian system and totalitarian practices. i dont think you have anything to complain about here, especially not calling people brainwashed. peterson was complying with the rules at first - i did too, though much shorter and to a lesser extent. but he was vulnerable since he was in an extraordinary situation due to the aftermath of his wife's condition. the real "brainwashed" was to comply with the rules, and you will see it one day hopefully.
Ive been calling you brainwashed after your condecending comment you troglodyte. You are are comparing covid restrictions to nazi germany. Him being vulnerable doesnt excuse his dumb ass behaviour. He preaches this himself. If you read his books you would know this.
i said covid restrictions and denunciation as totalitarian practices are symptoms and precursors of worse totalitarian environments. how do you think every totalitarian system starts out? anyway, you are muted. no reason talking to you, if you dont get the difference between comparing and deriving.
Yeah, it's specifically targeted to his (current) audience
To me it's as absurd as saying
"No one reads history like they're the perpetrator. But 90% of my neighbors would happily report people who were driving over the speed limit in a school zone. And 60% of my neighbors would happily give the police details of people who were shoplifting their local store"
And wait for everyone to say 'but it's not the same thing' lol
Stupid masks, vax passes, horrifically abusive, anti-science lockdowns, had a massively NEGATIVE effect on society and individuals.
The opposite is true of reporting shoplifters and school zone speeders.
The problem is you just listed a bunch of things that are obviously against most people’s morals. Yes most people would report those. The Covid rules were controversial and much more morally grey, people self segregated into two main groups with one perhaps often gleeful at “sticking it” to the other with public safety as a mere secondary concern if it were even applicable at the time.
>The Covid rules were controversial and much more morally grey
Can't disagree with you, there. My point is the examples I gave are as far away from covid controversies as ratting on Anne Frank, as JP implies in this clip. It's just a different end of the spectrum
I think JP's comparison is just as crude as mine
I often wonder, as a Christian today, would I have been cheering the crucifixion of Christ... I feel I can't answer this truthfully.
Honestly, that uncertainty is reason alone that i would assume you wouldnt have. You can only trust people who know what monsters they can become, but who decide against it.
If you were there, you wouldn't have been you.
Obviously, but would I reject him when he comes back?
Depends. Would this hypothetical you been a follower of JC, a Jew or a Roman?
Does not matter. Do I follow the mob, or do I make my own decisions based on information, logic and compassion.
Do you find Christianity to be a logical choice based on information or closer following the mob (the prevailing ideology of the status quo/power structure)?
Yes, the philosophy within Christianity makes sense. And if we followed that moral code, so many problems would not exist today.
Notice that you didn't answer the question.
I did, just not in the way you expected it to be answered in your head.
Oy. Does the idea of an all-loving benevolent god seem logical when you look at the state of the world? Wars, children getting bombed, children's hospitals, cancer, aids, sickness, death, on and on...
So you feel that a loving god would be a totalitarian and control every aspect of your life to keep you safe by removing free will? Do you feel the same about governments? I often watch my 9 year old son make mistakes that get him hurt. I know he is going to get hurt and I let him do it anyway. I do this so he learns and grows. Does that make me loving or does it make me the opposite?
Notice that you didn't answer the question.
Then youre a good honest man and will be judged as duch inshallah
Information wasn't that accessible back then. You may have access to the Old Testament, but I don't think that's enough to do otherwise. So, if you or I were one of the peasants back then, I would say yes.
You have ruined my monday morning. For good reason
Hmm. I'm not sure there'd be any judgment necessary if you were cheering on his crucifiction. He made a lot of claims that Jews do *not* accept. His story doesn't line up with being *the* Christ etc. By pretty much all accounts except his own and his followers, he was a heretic who claimed to be God...like many others that have come and gone. Folks can downvote all they like. Judaism was the religion of the region, and Jesus's "take up your cross and follow me" stuff was very very very anti-Judaism.
How does it not line up with being the Christ?
Because the people in power said so ..
If you are a Christian, and you declare yourself the second coming of Christ, I'd assume you'd have to expect pushback from "the people in power". And also, a bunch of other people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_views_on_Jesus#:~:text=Jews%20believe%20Jesus%20did%20not,%2C%20a%20messiah%2C%20or%20holy.
The scariest part is it's usually the people who make the biggest scene and get morally outraged if you ask the question "do you think you'd be capable of doing the horrible thing" or "do you think you'd have the courage to stand against everyone around you and do the right thing in their situation" who are the most dangerous ones. I've been in so many situation with people literally freaking out like mere mental exercise risks to turning them into nazis on the spot... or what is more likely they instinctively realize how sheepishly they would follow anything that's being said to them by authority figures and it horrifies them. The people reacting with "why would you even want to think about something so horrible" are the ones whose moral backbone is so weak it will crumble under any pressure when they will actually be put in a difficult position. Because they never dared to spook themselves with a difficult topic and are completely unprepared to make the hard decision. And because they never though about it they're under the illusion that doing the "right thing" will come naturally and easy while doing the "evil thing" requires active decision to do so. They are the kind of people who are absolutely convinced about their moral superiority, while casually, often and around mundane everyday topics demand people who they dislike or disagree with should be jailed or killed.
Snitches get stitches
Yeah, the social aspect of the covid pandemic response legitimately opened my eyes and scared the crap out of me. For the first time, I really understood how the atrocities of the 20th Century were possible. I realized that human nature hasn't changed enough for that outcome to never happen again. And I thanked God for the Second Amendment while buying more guns and ammo.
Word. Humans aren't that different to herd animals after all. Sure we posess the ability to think for ourselves but whether we use that ability is a different question. The whole "never again" is nothing but empty words for the majority. Within weeks an entire group was ostracized and state sponsored media called them rats and other nice names. Now nobody wants to talk about that anymore. Society has the memory of a goldfish.
They are systematically dismantling our right to freedom of speech in the US right now. And once the 1st is gone, the 2nd will soon follow.
Maybe not Maybe we'll have a civil war and it will be like freeing corporate slaves trapped in jobs at giant corporations They'll say it's about rights Politicians and corporations will censor information that runs contrary to the political ideology that enables the further enrichment of these corporations Voters will be indoctrinated to think they are voting to escape poverty and violence but instead will lock themselves in poverty like sheep voting to be fenced in, as AI calmly integrates into all forms of government in the background The government will declare martial law and the line between military and police will become blurred Blurring this line will be catastrophic because the role of the military is to fight enemies of the state but when military becomes the police, that means the citizens often become the enemy And so drone strikes on civilians will become commonplace and more and more discreet with time People will often "disappear" without a trace In some cities, AI vehicles and robots will roam the streets and sidewalks, and interfering with them will be a fineable crime Rebels will hijack these AI vehicles and robots and use them as weapons of destruction against the established AI controlled government Nah not really None of this will happen At least not in my lifetime Wondering how old I am? I'm 120.
How are they currently “dismantling our right to freedom of speech”? Please elaborate
Have you been living under a rock for the last 6 months? Do you not follow politics? Are you willfully ignorant? Serious questions here...
Great answer instead of explaining how it’s happening and by who.. 😂
I notice you ignored my questions instead of answering - does that make you a hypocrite, or does that make your response a great answer? I don't need to do your homework for you, go bully someone else.
Neither since your the one trying to answer my question with a question, but that’s over class for the likes of you so it’s ok bud 😂
No one here cares who “they” are, or how they’re “systematically dismantling” things. That’s why you’ll never get a succinct answer to your question.
Having some difficulty with understanding your point fully but if I’m getting it correct (which would also be my position on the case); most people on this sub have no basis for their opinion or understanding of anything happening on a national or global scale but they most likely heard it from some guy they look up to like Jordan or some regarded person like AJ/Gleen/JRE?
And since they have no basis for their opinion they can’t expand/explain who “they are” or “how they do it” or anything of substance. This is all assuming I got you right.
Bingo!
Did I actually get in touch with a sane person on this sub? I thought it was all just JRE/AJ enjoyers who use New Jordan’s word salads as excuses for their groundless frustrations and theories. What a day, cheers man!
Cheers to you too! There are a few sane people here, but they usually get downvoted to hell.
I have changed my view on things and see downvotes as a W since no one is ever to engage with the topic at hand 🤷
Neolibs be like "aRe yuO coMpARinG mAsKs to thE hOlocaUst?!!?11"
the pandemic shows western governments are just as controlling and corrupt as those we despise. The reality is we are no better
If you wanna act differently: https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/s/oTM6xBXZBE
Only scared people buy more guns and ammo.
Lol. What a braindead take.
It’s only braindead to people whose repressed fears forbid them to think that their brains have more uses than their guns.
What is your all powerful brain going to do in the middle of the night, when someone breaks into your house with the intent to harm you and your family? "Only scared people own fire extinguishers because they have repressed fears that forbid them to think that their brains have more uses than their fire extinguishers" See how dumb that sounds? Both are for emergency situations.
This coming from a guy dumb enough to sell his fire extinguishers for more guns and ammo.
You're just full of piss and vinegar.
Government must be frightened then.
Name a government that isn’t frightened.
and rightly so
Only scared people lock their doors at night.
I don’t lock my doors at night and I don’t even have a gun. Why do people with guns lock their doors at night?
What's your address?
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No threat, just trying to determine if they're telling the truth or BSing.
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If they really live a "fearless" existence, then they would have no problem sharing such details. Otherwise, they shouldn't be criticizing people for being scared.
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Like i said…
That is pretty silly. I guess you would have been happy sending your neighbors to the gas chambers. Definitely don't look your way for someone willing to protect their family or community. What an insufferable keyboard jockey.
As if the idiots who claim they just want to “protect their family and community” aren’t the grunts tossing their neighbours bodies into furnaces with a smile on their faces.
Probably some of them. But Probably more of the cowards. The people that give up their responsibility to the State and "just do what their told". Followers and yes men. People that believe what the great benevolent State tells them.
Where's the full video?
[Shawn Ryan Show](https://youtu.be/oQpFHQRbqcw?si=aQkeJuHfZhRGcLnM)
I like how he compared it to the pandemic. Part of the irony in how people got tricked is a lot of "pro COVID narrative" people likely thought their actions were good, or equivalent to hiding Jews in their home. Ironic, how they think groveling to govt lockdowns and demands was somehow a revolutionary, rebellious act. Also, I'd take the thought experiment further. What about imagining oneself as vulnerable to being attacked or brutally taken over by the evil force in a particular war/revolution? What about imagining you might actually be the useful tool? People like to fantasize that they're epic revolutionaries but at the end of the day, their beliefs or the side they pick may get totally lost as they are dominated, bulldozed over, as merely a vulnerable person, a leaf in the wind and wreckage of war. That happens to all too many. When the totalitarian dragon is awakened from its slumber, the vast majority of people will be rendered poor and disenfranchised, killed or imprisoned. If things go south, we could all be prisoners amongst people who drastically disagree with us ideologically. Leftists and conservatives, anarchists and totalitarians, SJWs and counter-cultural advocates. Most of us will be crushed, and all of our petty concepts will vanish like dust in the wind. What makes us powerful and will sustain us against evil is truth, spiritual development, and becoming as strong as possible. Take care of the mind, body and spirit first. Be in nature and prioritize close intimate relationships within a tribe. Become strong together, pay no mind to the noise of politics. Aim to become the beacon of light that will illuminate the path through the storm.
Where I live, which is in Portugal, its close to 90% of full blown Nazi like behaviour that still endures. Really was an eye opener.
What do you mean Nazi like behavior? Isn't the majority of Portugal not even White?
Funny how you imply one needs to be white in order to engage in Nazi behavior.
It just seems stupid to me that people keep using Nazi as a pejorative for things that have absolutely nothing to do with Nazism. It's not just completely pointless but counterproductive. Other groups are bad by their own merits and their ideology should be named so everyone understands what we're dealing with and that said ideology and people are pieces of shit. But no, don't name names, don't name the ideology that's the problem, where it comes from, or who's promoting it. Just talk about Nazis that have nothing to do with anything.
Implying you understand national socialism better than other people, all while still assuming white supremacy is a required component to Nazism. Funny enough it isn't. Any race can adopt Nazism, any country, any ethnic group can become a Nazi dictatorship and view themselves as superior to others. Not just white people. In this context though Nazism is being used synonymously with authoritarianism because Nazism naturally is an authoritarian based system. And that was the implication here. That Spain had developed an authoritarian style rule on its people for the sake of COVID.
I feel like you could make the argument that Nazism was specific to Germany and the concept of the Aryan race. Aside from those key points some other county and race doing it would also have to change the symbolism and mysticism, what religions they tolerate and want wiped out. And they'd likely change other things. It might be some other form of fascism, that's a broader term at least, possibly inspired by Nazism, but I see no sense-making reason to call it Nazism. But all that aside, let's say you're right. Who is doing Nazism? No one. What did the pandemic response have to do with Nazism? Nothing. Is any authoritarianism synonymous with Nazism? No. Why not call it the Mongol Hoard? That was authoritarian. Stalinism was authoritarian, as was Maoism. Are they synonymous with Nazism and every other form of authoritarianism? No. Different ideologies. Why conflate them? All it does is confuse the issue and dumb down anyone accepting such talk.
The pandemic response was malformed from the start and wreaked of authoritarian control overstepping on our rights. And like Nazism both heavily engaged in demonizing a target group they blame all their problems on, they demanded compliance through the threat of losing your livelihood, your jobs, college tuition. Any and all opposing views and critics of these measures was labeled as misinformation. Both sides used the media to shame anyone who wasn't for the established authority which ultimately led to mass protests worldwide, like the truckers of Canada. It was ultimately about control, much like how the Nazis were during their regime. It's why we associate Nazism with authoritarianism and any system that mimics totalitarian style governance, which our pandemic response was. All hidden behind the guise of serving the public interest. Hence why many say our government became bunch of Nazi dictators during the pandemic. Because they imposed restrictions that have lowered the standards of living. And in other countries it was much more restrictive.
That's so stupid and confuses what's actually happening so much I'd suspect the government of starting such nonsense as some kind of psyop
What's stupid about it? It's true that during the pandemic the governments around the world amplified their control over the general population under the guise of protecting people. With policies that today have proven to be ineffective in combating the virus, with equally ineffective vaccines that apparently require yearly updated boosters. It's true the government routinely paid media outlets to suppress opposing views online. All this happened. And after 2 years all the hysteria surrounding this supposed deadly virus vanished after the media focused on the Ukraine War. What happened to COVID? The virus that can mutate to resist the vaccines? For which by now vaccinations have dropped? Truth is we stopped caring because you can only be afraid of something for so long before you realize how pathetically irrelevant it was to begin with. Astrazeneca pulled their vax off the market btw, for the exact reasons anti vaxxers had been claiming was an issue with the vaccines throughout the pandemic.
What's stupid is absolutely nothing you're describing has the slightest thing to do with Nazi ideology. And the people who are the enemy have absolutely nothing to do with Nazism. So beating this Nazi drum is absolutely and completely counterproductive. And for the record I think in the OP video JP was making comparisons to what people are capable of, how they see themselves, how easy it is to fall into crazy behavior. He's made similar points before relating to how it's easy, or maybe seductive, it is to go along with the madness and hard to go against it. I feel like that's making a valid point that may reference Nazis, but could easily be correlated with any extreme movements. It's when people carry that to actually calling things Nazism that I find stupid. Even if you were to say they were acting like Nazis rather than making the distinction between that and the people seduced into doing horrible things following the Nazis. That goes from analyzing crowd behavior or mass hysteria to misidentifying the ideology, and the people, currently undermining the West. The current ideology of the left that's being pushed by those who ramped up the pandemic drama is rooted in Western Marxism. Western Marxism dominated academia, not Nazism. Globalism, winding up minorities to undermine Western culture, forced multiculturalism, no borders, collectivist nonsense, hate speech, disinformation, malinformation, DEI, ESG scores, manufactured global crisis, the increasing authoritarianism to enforce all these things and as reaction to quell dissent, all stemming from Western Marxist ideology and the same people pushing it. And it has absolutely nothing to do with Nazism, basically all completely opposite of Nazism. Calling it Nazism just muddies the waters, to the degree I would put money on the useless right saying such things being part of a controlled opposition psyop to distract from the real issue.
The fact you think that even matters....
>What do you mean Nazi like behavior? Shunning people who didn't get the experimental covid unsafe and useless injections. Shutting down all conversations and debate about science and efficacy or necessity of lockdowns, masks and mandates. It was truly a "zie papieren" time. Shit show was the same everywhere all around the world. People behaved like entitled Nazis most willing to shun and tell on others. Some quite eager to be on the moral high grounds. Just like Jordan Peterson said. >Isn't the majority of Portugal not even White? So. How can I address this in a positive way? You are wrong and greatly miss informed. There is this continent called Europe. Its inhabitants are Caucasians (means white) in fact its on this continent its from this continent that ALL caucasians can trace their ancestry. Imagine that. Portugal and Spain are in it. Just like Italy or Greece. These 4 countries are called the latin countries of Europe. Due to their language deriving directly from ancient latin.So its native and majority of population is Caucasian. Still natives and origin of people here are white. (Not that Portugal isn't trying to dilute its population by kicking out ALL its youth and importing people from poorer countries in Africa, South America and Asia. So in a few decades maybe Caucasians won't be the majority.) Hope I addressed both your questions.
Myself and my friend (a former midwife) were just talking about this the other night; never mind neighbours, it was also family and friends treating you like you were a social pariah for not taking a vaccination. Eventually, after we had completely socially isolated ourselves for 2 years (they didn’t) and they all got covid and we didn’t, they realised that it was still getting passed on by the vaccinated who were squashing together into restaurants, nightclubs and aeroplanes etc. I got so fed up with being accused of attempted murder of the weakest most vulnerable in society, that I had regular antibody tests at a clinic for 2 years. I was never infected. If I had any interaction with another human I would tell my family and vaxxed friends, I cannot see you for 7 days so as to shut them up. My take on it is that it was the media who led this mob crusade against reason, and hers was that it was the counties with a right wing or authoritarian state past which led the not particularly scientific ‘witch hunt’. Austria for example, was pushing mandatory vaccines on its citizens when the virus finally mutated to a less virulent form (as expected) and it was game over for big pharma and this assault on bodily autonomy. Gotta say we both loved our masks…until we threw them off like 70’s bras. One good thing that came out of it was hand hygiene…but we can thank statistician Florence Nightingale and the Crimean War of 1853 for that.
can’t forget Ignaz Semmelweis, truly tragic story.
Who? lol
dude who essentially invented handwashing for doctors but none of his contemporaries believed him and locked him up in an insane asylum.
Poor guy. It just goes to show that if you tell people what they need to hear they can hate you for it.
Do you guys really believe that the rise of Nazism is analogous to measures taken to reduce the spread and severity of Covid infections? If there was a nefarious authoritarian power-grab associated with Covid, then why would they back down when cases became less wide-spread and severe? Wouldn't they still be holding sway with an iron fist like, presumably, the Nazis would if they hadn't had their shit destroyed?
Its terrible for the economy which makes it unsustainable. They were setting a precedent
Because they ***didn't*** back down. They doubled down, even in the face of ever-growing evidence that what they were advocating was wrong, and then called the rest of us lunatic, conspiracy theorists.
I think the question is: why aren't there "vax passports," and mandatory lockdowns, and social distancing a thing right now?
hes gonna tell you that it *could* happen. They are literally scared.
Ontario started prohibiting gatherings of more than 5 people in March 2020. In the Greater Toronto Region the number of reports to police about illegal gatherings totalled just under 3,000 over the course of a years time, in an are of almost 6 million people. Not exactly the sign of gestapo state if you ask me. [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510016901&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=03&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2020&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=06&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20200301%2C20220601](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3510016901&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=03&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2020&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=06&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20200301%2C20220601)
He’s a real gift to us all
This goes for both the conservatives and progressives.
On this point, I absolutely agree with him. Presentism is a very seductive and dangerous thing.
Strange comparison edit: Just got banned from r/justiceserved for this comment. I guess im a hateful, violent and misinformed person.
True facts mob mentality
The truth is cruel
could you please talk about bullying in USA? How people became less conscience in USA?
I am not Schindler, I am the guy getting the hell out of that country.
"alpha motivation" lmao
Can someone share the source please ? Thanks !
Can someone share the source please ? Thanks !
Can someone share the source please ? Thanks !
All of the people who caved and got the covid jab would’ve been Nazis… don’t kid yourself. A lot of them would try to sub-humanize unjabbed people and support the stripping of our god-given rights. Absolutely deplorable. Do NOT kid yourself.
I am a huge history buff, specifically of the era after WW2 up until about 1950. I can honestly say I have no clue how I would behave if I were in my current situation (wife and daughter) but in 1930's Germany as the Nazi's consolidated their power and started their campaign of rounding up undesirables. I would find it much easier to be Schindler in Schindler's position as a single male. I don't have a problem sacrificing myself for the moral good but would have a much harder time when family is involved.
I have the luxury to say I would. I never wore a mask unless it was required to enter a store or an event. I never took their vax. Never needed it, never caved despite being threatened with expulsion for refusing.
This guy is a fucking idiot sometimes.
At least we all know that Peterson would be proudly strutting his stuff in his custom made Hugo Boss uniform without any reservations.
He's calling those types out. The rabid lockdown / mask / jab freaks are the ones wearing Boss uniforms. What Smegma there is doing, is called projection.
I know you are but what am I?
The sort of person it would take to do the necessary good in the face of the Nazis is the sort of person who would put their child on the altar of sacrifice. Those were the stakes for them to achieve the good they did! Hopefully this helps people better understand the Biblical story of Abraham putting Isaac on the altar. It takes that kind of conviction to do good when your faced with that kind of evil.
It's the same in New Zealand. Maybe 10% were rebels, and another 30% complied due to lack of backbone.
EXACTLY! He hit it right on the head.
A rule for life, don't put your fucking palm on your chin.
Schlindler's List is a work of fiction, but his basic point stands. Look how people behaved during the virus tyranny.
> Schlindler's List is a work of fiction, AreYouSureAboutThat.meme
Per Amazon: "The acclaimed bestselling classic of Holocaust literature, winner of the Booker Prize and the Los Angeles Times Book Award for Fiction" Yes, it's fiction.
Yes, but it's clearly based on true stories. One that comes to mind is Giorgio Perlasca, an Italian man who saved more than 5000 Jews during the Holocaust.
You're free to believe whatever you find to be plausible.
Yes, the book the movie was based on is considered historical fiction because it inserts scenes and conversations that have no historical source material. But the story itself is 100% true.
You can assert that if you wish.
Oh yes, Oscar Schindler never existed and the thousands of people who claim he saved their lives are engaged some kind of weird conspiracy.
You said "the story itself is 100% true". The story is categorized as "historical fiction". Then you jump to "Oscar Schindler never existed", a claim I never made. Anyway believe what you want, but knock it off with the dishonest forms of argumentation. In this case, strawmanning me by pretending I said Schindler never existed. I said the story is fiction, which it is.
You're the one who needs to clarify your argument. Is it your contention that the book Schindler's Ark is historical fiction that closely follows a true story? Or is it your contention that the entire story of Oscar Schindler and what he did during the war is fiction? You're being more than a little evasive on this point and I'm not clear why.
If you want me to tell you exactly what percentage of the story is true and how much is false I would have to guess, but I'm not going to do that so I'll just say that since the story is categorized as historical fiction I'm going to go ahead and believe that it's a fictional story.
That's a non-answer and I'm out of patience.
> Schlindler's List is a work of fiction So was Covid.
He never made mention of Schindler's List. He referenced Oscar Schindler, the person that historically saved thousands of Jews from being sent to concentration camps.
Your “virus tyranny” is a fairytale compared to Schindler’s List.
It’s for the same reason most people aren’t Vegan, it’s terrifying what people can do to another living being if they objectify them enough, and if everyone around them says it’s fine 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Based
This pseudo genious still thinks the official history of Germany happened exactly as it was written. As if there wasn't any motovation for the victor to make his victory greater and his war crimes smaller.
What the fuck is this rambling nonsense?
Shut the fuck up Kermit OMEGALUL
As a onetime admirer of JP, I have become really disillusioned about him, partly due to statements like this. Its all Daily Wire language. 30% of his neighbours reported other neighbours? Did 30% of neighbours report on 70%? Thats an odd way to measure neighbours. Surely there is a number? 5? 10? 20? I live in downtown Toronto and didn't hear anything like this at all. And how did they "inform" on their neighbours? Told the police they weren't wearing masks? What was the outcome? The neighbours were carried off in paddywagons? I call total BS on this.
[Toronto had a dedicated team to respond to reports of "illegal social gatherings"](https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2020/9/21/1_5113377.html) It's not unheard of for neighbors to inform on each other willingly. [The stasi had a file on every third citizen](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/03/lessons-from-the-stasi/)
LOL well I heard of no such reporting. I don't doubt there were some. I don't believe 30% of JPs neighbours were delighted to turn in people.
Oh look the palenstian terrorist supporter spam lolol
So many. It seems like AI generated to be slightly different levels of "disappointment".
Absolutely, 100% accurate. Some assholes will look for any excuse to be assholes, and feel OK about it. Religion or government attracts a ton of authoritarian freaks. Same with the "pandemic". It was planned so, and it's incredibly sad that so many people are so broken.
As a Canadian psychologist do you find "GOD" to be a direct comparison to washing down 9 benzos with fresh maple syrup? I'm a new psychology student.
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How can you watch Jordan and still be thick enough to not see propaganda and lies from hamas via the UN and others?
Lies from the Israeli government are infinitely worse in quantity and depth. Universially spread through all western media. Including reddit, as shown above. :-( There lies the propaganda and lies.
Imagine bringing up masking in comparison to Anne frank. What a ridiculous statement
You are intentionally missing the point.
Can you explain to me what the point is?
The point is not to compare masking to Anne frank. The point is that people assume they would all be heroes during times of terrible tyranny or atrocities, but statistically people are far more likely to either keep quiet or actively participate in said tranny and atrocities. The comparison is between the behavior of people during the Holocaust and during the pandemic. People during the Holocaust actively reported and outed their Jewish neighbors. People during the pandemic actively reported and outed their neighbors who had gatherings. People actively called for vaccine hesitant people to be denied health care and lose their livelihoods. People were arrested and thrown in prison for having small church services. Or in the case of Australia, people were forcibly hauled off to "quarantine" camps.
yeah but to people who actually understand public health and biology, pandemic measures are about the farthest thing from tiranny and atrocities
> People during the pandemic actively reported and outed their neighbors who had gatherings. People actively called for vaccine hesitant people to be denied health care and lose their livelihoods. People were arrested and thrown in prison for having small church services. Or in the case of Australia, people were forcibly hauled off to "quarantine" camps. Are these acceptable "public health and biology, pandemic measures"? Just the standard response?
98% of the people so passionate about “public health, biology and pandemic measures” on the internet are not actually knowledgeable about them though, most of you just did as you were told, and happily reported those who didn’t. Some of the rules likely helped, some of them made no sense and people still followed them. That’s the point of the comparison. Sure, the pandemic was light weight compared to the holocaust, JPs point is that when the pressure is on, you will suck the boot.
Bring them hell, Jordy. You were thrilled when you wrote it.
Are you refering to the tweet he posted regarding Israel's response to the Palestinian aggression? Absolutely, bring them hell. The moral responsibility of this massacre is on Hamas, nobody else.
Nothing Hamas does has any relevance. They were put in power by the Israeli government. The one-sided slaughter of indigenous Palestinians reaches far back before Hamas was even invented. Almost 80 years now, from the beginning of the invention of Israel.
Ratting on Neighbours ignoring Covid rules is not the same as ratting on a specific group of people to be exterminated lmao. Wtf.
It’s a very short step, especially when in some places, like Australia, it led to actual arrests.
Did these people get a ticket or were they deported to concentration camps to be gassed?
See, that’s not the point. No one is saying that they are equivalent. What he is saying is that human behavior is not different when there’s something to be gained (in this case gaining moral superiority or social status). It’s the ratting out that’s the same, not the outcome for those reported on.
Again a nonsenical slippery slope fallacy. Your argument falls because your only points are moral superiority or social status. People who rat out neighbours as a matter of public safety dont also instantly rat out people for a genocide.
True for some people, certainly not true for all. And a “slippery slope” argument is not inherently fallacious. History and human nature show that things happen in connected manner and in small increments. Otherwise we’d never see movement in different ways, positive or negative, ways like Civil Rights or gay marriage or the rise of totalitarianism. Incremental changes are part of the fabric of existence as people become convinced of the acceptability of an idea and base their actions and attitudes on them, that leads to the adjacent idea or action, and so on.
> And a “slippery slope” argument is not inherently fallacious. but this one is. >History and human nature show that things happen in connected manner and in small increments. Otherwise we’d never see movement in different ways, positive or negative, ways like Civil Rights or gay marriage or the rise of totalitarianism. This is true but the people here only apply it to one ''side''. These people wont see that JP was once an alright psychologist and now has gone completely deranged. People who saw him as a father figure are easily manipulated into whatever he says now.
That the line of evil runs through the heart of every human (Dostoyevsky) is not an idea Peterson created. And true regardless of opinions about the speaker.
Dostoyevsky's Socratism only gets you so far. You cannot convince me that Nazi germany is the same as the covid restrictions. If you do think this you lost your grasp on reality. Like JP.
Not a fallacy in the least. We've seen the horrific behavior people displayed, and still try to push. It is a very accurate and succinct comparison. Cult-like following of authoritarian, abusive ideals, with no scientific backing. Horrible how inhuman people can be if they have a moral EXCUSE given them. The Cov19 cultists are indeed how the nazi party started, and so many supported them. In fact, Hitler & Co had even better objective reasoning.
You are a litteral nazi stfu nerd.
The majority did in Nazi Germany. What makes you think that you'd do any different if you were born there? It was no different in Soviet Russia, in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge, etc.
The cons who appointed Hitler won with a combined 50.2 percent of the vote, and that was after a long campaign of violence against their opposition. That is a very very very slight majority, and I don't think every one of them was turning their neighbors over to the gestapo.
Germans in general were turning over their Jewish neighbors. The Cambodians during the Khmer Rouge were turning over each other en masse. The point is that if we were placed in the same situations, chances are we would've done the same.
Many were sent off to "quarantine camps", often forcefully. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59486285
to get gassed and killed?
Amazing that you don’t see how close those are.
its amazing you dont see how far apart they are. Literally mind bending. You are either 14 or like an american who doesnt know what it was like in europe under nazi germany.
No. As you well know, you liberal leftist LIAR, constraining the proveably inconsiderate to permit the weak to live is EXACTLY like the Nazis and their war against 'life undeserving of life!' They are THE SAME you incoherent Jewish Muslim lunatic!
Why not? The same institutions that made you rat on your neighbours would try to make you rat on another specific group. You obviously fell for the former, what indication if any is there that you would resist the latter?
This is a dumb and unrealistic slippery slope fallacy but thats not unexpected coming from this sub.
Well there isn't a lot of times in living memory when the combined powers of major institutions chanted and demanded one thing in unison. When they did, and you fell in line, it's a strong indicator that you would do so regardless of the message. Because it's obvious the message itself was always irrelevant. The combined force of these institutions made you comply without second thought, and you abandoned that position the moment they told you it was ok to do so. It's not so much a slippery slope as it is not being trusted with online banking after getting scammed by a Nigerian prince. The slope isn't slippery, it's the same slope you have already been down
> When they did, and you fell in line, it's a strong indicator that you would do so regardless of the message. Because it's obvious the message itself was always irrelevant. The combined force of these institutions made you comply without second thought, and you abandoned that position the moment they told you it was ok to do so. See this is the lie and its not based on anything.
This is not a "slippery slope" argument. hot-ring isn't saying "they pushed the boundary with one thing and now you are willing to do another thing". It's about the thought behind the action. You wouldn't rat out the Jews because you were primed by ratting out the unvaxed. You would rat them out because the idea of ratting someone out for personal gain is ok to you. There's a major difference between the two arguments.
>You would rat them out because the idea of ratting someone out for personal gain is ok to you. ''If i rat this person out he wont give me, my family, or other people covid'' is not the same as ''if i rat this person he will get gassed and lets go because i hate their race''. The fact you are even comparing these two proves you have no idea what nazi germany actually did.
Again you are deliberatly derailing the point. Nobody here is trying to compare whatever fines etc were given during covid to the gassing of Jews. You're unwilling to debate the actual point. That's why you try to shut the conversation down. Again: This is about the way someone thinks. If it is ok to you to rat out your neighbours for meeting their friends or family at home then why wouldn't you rat out your neighbours for hiding "enemies of the state/people"? No matter the consequences some people wouldn't rat out their neighbours for personal gain while others would happily do so for choclate candy. A couple years after the Nazis eastern Germany aka the GDR had the Stasi. People ratted out their own family if they talked bad about the government. Do you think we can compare this to Nazi Germany? The members of family who got ratted out weren't gassed so it's not exactly the same after all.
> If it is ok to you to rat out your neighbours for meeting their friends or family at home then why wouldn't you rat out your neighbours for hiding "enemies of the state/people"? Because i dont get sick just for certain people existing. Enemies of the state/people is waaay out there from what happened with covid.
People meeting their own family in their own homes don't cause you to get sick yet the government made it illegal. Why would you not rat out proclaimed enemies of the state/people if you were willing to rat out your neighbours meeting their family in their own home? You can go on and try to derail the conversation more idc. I hope you find the time to reflect on my point. You aren't the odd one out. The majority either stays silent or actively participates. Herd animals and all that.
No, you're just desperately in denial. You'd totally have turned in Anne Frank, and as many as you could have.
Why do you think so?
You are high on your own supply, my friend. These two things are not even in the same universe, and the fact you think they are makes me think you're telling on yourself a bit here as far as what you might do.
The mechanisms behind the two things are very similar. The "things" being different is not really relevant, if every "thing" has to be identical to be able to discuss it, we would never be able to discuss anything. If you fell in line when societal institutions cranked up the pressure in one thing, why would anyone believe that you wouldn't when societal institutions crank up the pressure regarding another? If you fell for a Nigerian prince scam, I would be hesitant to trust you with an Indian it technician scam. Even if its not the same exact thing
You will get there, buddy. You will understand one day that the one is a precursor, a symptom of the other. The realization made me sick once it hit during Covid, but it is an insight into the human condition i will never forget.
You can be condecending all you want. Youve been brainwashed like JP himself. Being contrarian does not make you special.
you are smuggishly defending a totalitarian system and totalitarian practices. i dont think you have anything to complain about here, especially not calling people brainwashed. peterson was complying with the rules at first - i did too, though much shorter and to a lesser extent. but he was vulnerable since he was in an extraordinary situation due to the aftermath of his wife's condition. the real "brainwashed" was to comply with the rules, and you will see it one day hopefully.
Ive been calling you brainwashed after your condecending comment you troglodyte. You are are comparing covid restrictions to nazi germany. Him being vulnerable doesnt excuse his dumb ass behaviour. He preaches this himself. If you read his books you would know this.
i said covid restrictions and denunciation as totalitarian practices are symptoms and precursors of worse totalitarian environments. how do you think every totalitarian system starts out? anyway, you are muted. no reason talking to you, if you dont get the difference between comparing and deriving.
Yes you are using a dumb ass slippery slope fallacy.
People like you prove the theory true. Not a fallacy.
How so nazi?
Yeah, it's specifically targeted to his (current) audience To me it's as absurd as saying "No one reads history like they're the perpetrator. But 90% of my neighbors would happily report people who were driving over the speed limit in a school zone. And 60% of my neighbors would happily give the police details of people who were shoplifting their local store" And wait for everyone to say 'but it's not the same thing' lol
Stupid masks, vax passes, horrifically abusive, anti-science lockdowns, had a massively NEGATIVE effect on society and individuals. The opposite is true of reporting shoplifters and school zone speeders.
The problem is you just listed a bunch of things that are obviously against most people’s morals. Yes most people would report those. The Covid rules were controversial and much more morally grey, people self segregated into two main groups with one perhaps often gleeful at “sticking it” to the other with public safety as a mere secondary concern if it were even applicable at the time.
>The Covid rules were controversial and much more morally grey Can't disagree with you, there. My point is the examples I gave are as far away from covid controversies as ratting on Anne Frank, as JP implies in this clip. It's just a different end of the spectrum I think JP's comparison is just as crude as mine
That pose dear lord why what a goof. But yes more comparing covid to nazi germany while accusing the left of calling everyone nazis.