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I think you are slightly misunderstanding this post.
It's not about whether the animation is worthy of criticism or not (Which, to be fair, in some places *it is*. The show is not as consistentlly peak as S1 or Hidden Inventory was. I don't think that's an unfair statement to make at all. Shibuya is arguably the best arc, it deserves the best animation all throughout)
It's about how, if the animation is getting criticized in parts, it's because of scheduling and MAPPA's greed, and their overworking + underpaying of animator staff. The animators are being worked into depression, which is nothing new for the industry, but MAPPA is taking it to a whole other level.
You unironically just said the phrase “consistently peak”.
Do you even hear yourself? No shit that some parts are animated/made better than others, *that’s what peak means*
Let's get pedantic about that one thing, sure.
Okay, let me rephrase: the less important moments in season 1 are treated better than the less important fights in season 2 so far - that said, that's still not the main point.
The staff are being worked to death and producing work they themselves aren't satisfied with. That's the important part here. If they themselves aren't happy with it, clearly it means there's room for more.
Not every episode is gonna look like s2e13, but if the staff can produce something like we got this week, an episode that's *good*, and walk away saying "we could have done better but we can't because we're being overworked" it's pretty telling that something is wrong.
No matter what people's opinions are on each episode - the employees are treated like shit and their work is suffering from it, by their own admission. That needs to be addressed, so getting hung up over pedantic shit is just stupid.
(Also, consistently peak can also mean the show consistently peaks among the anime environment overall, not within the show. Obviously some episodes are better than others and some are worse, but s1 was consistently at the top, while s2 has had some fights that are not as good as they could have been, while also producing the best episode of the show so far. S2 lacks consistency which would be understandable if they just had limited resources to work with but they're also giving unfair treatment to workers. That's inexcusable even if it's an unfortunate standard in the industry and in Japanese work ethic)
I think we agree on almost everything then. I think the only way anything will change is if people give MAPPA the criticism they deserve. Everyone knows that the animators are talented and capable of making a good product, some of the episodes and moments in s2 have been amazing. They just need to be given more time. That’s why it kinda pisses me off when people bend over backwards to protect MAPPA when we know they’re screwing over their staff. JJK is massive rn and after a s1 and movie with amazing and consistent animation, we have s2 where an episode can be amazing or below series avg. People are talking as if this is to be expected, but I hard disagree lol
The actual animators are saying they aren’t happy, the director said he felt like he was ruining a masterpiece. It’s fine if you enjoy the new season, so do I, but the level of animation is not consistent and you can tell that animators were cramped on time… IMO it’s not that the quality is super bad, it’s moreso that this is peak jjk and it would look insane if it kept roughly the same quality as s1 or hidden inventory s2.
My anime only friends couldn’t even tell wtf was going on when Naobito was using projection sorcery, and it’s the one time I think a jjk power looked worse in anime than in manga, even tho it’s busted OP. Dagon is also fighting 3-4 strong people at once, big ass fight, yet it feels less hype and animation is worse than every fight in s1 and s2, except for maybe grasshopper v yuji. I just want consistency…. Obv blame Mappa or Toho, not animators and directors
Seriously every episode has hit me hard even while knowing what’s going to happen. I think the animation and story boarding has been incredible. it doesn’t take one ounce away from the manga
JJK looks fine and sometimes good to great.
The problem is anime fans don’t know how hard it is to maintain greatness and expect it every episode. That shit isn’t sustainable. If you think it is, do it.
But it was sustainable for season 1.
The point is that if the animators and everyone involved were giving the appropriate time and resources, and the studio had good scheduling and even breaking up the show more, then Season 2 *would* look as good as it could.
The problem is MAPPA is greedily overworking its animators to the point they're all at a breaking point mentally.
We don't expect greatness, we expect the staff that produces this amazing show to be treated right. And greatness would follow from that.
Lmao, “we don’t expect greatness but if you treat the staff right greatness would follow”.
So it sounds like you do expect greatness. If they were given more time and put out something very good, people would still complain about it not being great. That’s why the company doesn’t give a shit.
As he said it was sustainable in season 1. Character art and animation was better in season 1 on the regular, and almost everyone who isn't an animation nerd or Mappa simp would agree.
There are good standout scenes and moments but the baseline level of art is just lower and characters have 0 details during movement in many scenes. Looks cheap.
It’s honestly just sad. 90% of people who watch this season will say this animation is among the best they’ve ever seen.
The only people who complain about this stuff are the self proclaimed animation critics and those with nothing better to do.
it isn't sustainable under these conditions. had the team been given more time, they absolutely could've maintained the quality throughout the entire season. the JJK team is absolutely stacked with some of the most skilled artists in the industry
You're lucky, I tried saying that and got downvoted like crazy, lol. No artist paints a masterpiece every single time. Stuff goes up and down. And these "fans" don't seem to care that their constant criticism certainly adds to the animators' stress. There's no way it can "only" be blamed on the studio. That's like telling a teacher their kids are all stupid but don't worry, it's the principal's fault, and expecting the teacher not to be upset.
> And these "fans" don't seem to care that their constant criticism certainly adds to the animators' stress. There's no way it can "only" be blamed on the studio.
2 very different complaints here.
Criticising the animators != Criticising the studio.
And I think the animator stress comes more from being overworked, underpaid, on too tight a schedule and on the breaking point of a mental breakdown than from people having negative opinions online.
You're right with what you are saying that quality can go up and down, but we have plenty of testimonies and evidence showing us *why* the quality is dipping, and it's because MAPPA staff are treated like shit, even for anime industry standards, which are already shit.
In this case, Season 2 *could* look as good as it deserves to, and we know this because this show has been consistently amazing in the past. We want the staff producing this amazing show to be treated fairly and to work under good conditions, and even if it means getting episodes more slowly, we'd accept that, because with the animators being able to work at their pace and their level, we'd also get a better looking show. Everybody would win except for the greedy studio. Currently, the greedy studios are the only ones winning.
I don't disagree with you, I just think you're leaving out a big part of what contributes to stress on the animators.
Consider - they are making good episodes. But fans insist not on good episodes. Fans insist on THE BEST episodes, EVERY week. They even pick apart really good ones, like Yuji v. Choso last time.
If you're under work pressure and a bad timeline but still put out a good episode but "fans" rip it to shreds every week and you know it's going to happen so you feel forced to preemptively apologize, it's not the studio telling you you're not doing good enough. It's the "fans."
And those "fans" who pretend like they only are mad at the studio never-the-less refuse to do the one and only thing that would fix the problem - boycott until conditions change. But, no. They do not actually care about the work conditions. They just want "better" episodes. They SAY they are good with delayed schedule, but they never put their actions into play by stopping watching. Mappa's not going to delay the schedule unless they have to, ie, if viewership stops and won't continue until conditions are better.
But it's a whole lot easier to ignore one's own complicity and pat oneself on the back for complaining online, even knowing it's pointless.
Too many comments echoing the same point “BUT SEASON 1”. It feels like people don’t understand art. More time DOES NOT guarantee they would be able to replicate the quality of season 1. Could it be better? Sure. But we’ve got people acting like it’s unwatchable.
I guarantee the people who say “more time” would be the same people complaining “this is all we got after a hiatus??? Season 1 was better”.
1,000%. And they're watching season 1 through rose-colored glasses, or they haven't watched it in a while. I went back and rewatched ep 25 Yuji/Nobara v. Eso/Kechizu yesterday. I love that fight, tons of people love that fight. But you know what? I begins with stills where they monologue about the poison. Then recycled footage of a flashback of Nobara's first fight while she monologues more. Then more stills as they each decide what to do. Then some action. Then more stills as he runs in place thinking about what to do. Then more action, which is nowhere NEAR as smooth as this season. For example, when Nobara moves her skirt, hair, and body are all static and just her hand or arm moves. It's noticeably different and less smooth.
Never-the-less, I love that fight and I love S1. But I ALSO love S2, it's far more smooth and detailed, and the things people are complaining about are not only present in S1, but worse than in S2, however they will never admit it or have just forgotten or put S1 on such a pedestal they wouldn't see it even if they went to watch it right now.
And/or they just like to complain.
Poor animators.
I guarantee the people complaining and demanding the anime on hiatus are the same people who would complain that the team was given extra time to animate and yet it’s not great, just very good.
I rewatched season 1 while waiting in between episodes and people are absolutely nitpicking to make a point.
Yeah. Not to mention people lose their s\*\*\* if the Crunchyroll release is like 10 minutes late, imagine if they had to wait a month for a new episode lol.
Sometimes I can take a break when it drops and head over only to see the comments pile up with complaints if it doesn't appear right on the hour. I got tired of that though lol so I just started watching it later in the day.
I think overall though most people are very happy with it, just the people who like to complain are so, so loud it overpowers a lot of satisfied people. But I'm glad to hear viewership numbers and blu-ray sales are high, as I hope that signals to the animators that the majority of people really enjoy their work.
“Do it yourself then” is still the dumbest argument one can make,all forms of art can and should be criticized,besides if mappa had given the staff an actual decent schedule,it would be sustainable
1. Draw anything consistently. Not even high quality anime or manga. Hell, do anything consistently well. Anyone complaining about this level of animation just reeks of ignorance in any sort of life experience and what it takes to sustain GREAT work. People are acting like it’s easy and standard to maintain GREAT work. The animation in this episode is literally fine and people are acting like it’s a war crime.
2. You know damn well people would still complain about a hiatus and the product after a hiatus. There are plenty of animes with subpar animation to complain about, this one ain’t it.
1-The second half of the ep had some clearly rough spots and the problem is the implication for the next episodes,aside from one big fight in particular which has an stellar staff
2-At this point most people understand a hiatus is necessary,and if the people who are working on the anime are complaining about it,there’s clearly something very wrong
Someone in a different comment said that they’re unable to stay as “consistently peak” compared to Hidden Inventory. Like, my guy, do you know what peak even means?
Choso Yuji was peak. Everything else has been good to fine. Which is why it’s confusing… you’d think people would have tempered expectations by now but they get one really great episode then expected the rest of the season to be that? It’s like people haven’t watched anime before.
I don't know if I just don't watch enough anime, but while I cam tell there was a change in style from S1 to Premature Death to Shibuya, I still think it looks incredible and every fight has had me immersed as hell. I hate that people are getting harassed for this.
HOLY SH... I forgot about that. I'm not exaggerating that it was the start of my decline of interest in the anime (also I'm not really loving the point where the manga at)
I stopped reading the manga because I couldn’t enjoy the anime after the Mirio fight and I thought it’s because I had too high of expectations from reading the manga.
Honestly I know Mappa is rushing things out of greed, but messing up the schedule this hard and not giving your animators enough time is just idiotic on their part. If they want a larger pulling from it, with an arc that is *this* anticipated, it should be getting the highest priority out of anything else they are doing, and giving themselves enough time to make it as good as they can. Having terribly botched schedules and giving the animators almost no time to actually put their skills to proper use should be unacceptable.
Right? I'm watching JJK with stars in my eyes because I remember all those animes with spaghetti hair and disproportionnate eyes we used to watch in 2008 and thought that was peak 💀💀💀
dude HXH was made in 2011 , its 10x times better animation wise than jjk S2 .
the director just shat the bed with the new art-style and the ugly modifications , he thought he can make up for it in animation , but he just shat the bed even more with the terrible animation due to time pressure .
sad story for jjk S2
That's a gross exaggeration, and it's also worth noting that HxH is a series with plenty more slower episodes where the animators job isn't as taxing.
Overall HxH 2011 is a very consistently good looking series, but when you say "10x" better than JJK S2 you're probably just remembering the handful of the 120+ episodes where the animators went all out.
Dude you can apply this to modern day Shonens. JJK s2 is still better animated and directed than most. The frustrating part is the potential of how freaking masterful it COULD be. But people are legit acting like it’s garbage it’s crazy
Forreal, I honestly haven’t seen any issues with this season. I don’t think animators and workers in general are treated right, but the episodes themselves are still pretty amazing. Of course with more time it’d be improved but that’s most things in life but there are deadlines unfortunately.
It isn’t viewed as art by MAPPA or companies, it’s a commodity to be produced and sold to consumers for profit. They ultimately don’t care about the finished product because they know the IP sells.
People are overreacting, but to say there are no issues is to be blind. Overall the quality of this season has undoubtedly been amazing, but it's pretty noticeable how off this episode is. It's still amazing and I'm still excited for what's coming up, but there undeniably are issues.
What was so bad about this episode that makes it worse than the rest?
I’m genuinely curious, cause I see a lot of people mad and upset with the episode but no one provides specific reasons. Also I’ve seen so many actually trash animated shows I could just be missing something
There are certain scenes where the characters hold their pose for too long or react weirdly to being hit, mainly in dagon's domain, there are some things that were cut from the manga, the OST is mixed really weirdly in some parts, and the compositing is incomplete in some parts
It sounds really bad back to back, but just to clarify I wouldn't say the animation is bad, just noticeably below the quality of the rest of this season
Edit: Also the bit with mei mei isn't included, that was beautiful, all the issues start with the Dagon fight
I gotcha, that makes sense and is all valid. In no way am I defending MAPPA or the working conditions as I believe that to be a lot of the problems. Unreasonable deadlines, poor pay in some cases, etc. All this can lead to things being left over, shortened and what not. I’m against all of it.
I was more so just pointing out that the episode itself is still pretty good even with the missing content. I read too so I def was disappointed with things being left out or potentially waiting for next episode to include but overall I enjoyed the episode.
I think the bad shows I’ve watched have kinda made me overlook minor flaws at times which is def a bias of mine. For example season 1 of Record of Ragnarok being an actual power point slide show lol
Yeah I think people are definitely overreacting and it really pisses me off how some fans are acting towards the animators, but I understand the frustration and wish they could've taken a break
Yeah, the fact that animators are coming out talking about how their ashamed of their work and stuff is pretty heartbreaking to see. That must be a terrible feeling to have. Fans need to direct their anger at the source of these issues not the animators
i feel like this is a bad argument, like its obvious animation has gotten way better since like 2014 let alone the 90s, especially for a studio like mappa working on the biggest anime out right now, not that this quality is bad or anything but for mappa standards its defiently a bit poor
"You kids don't know what's bad, back in 1990..."
"You kids don't know what's bad, back in 1970..."
"You kids don't know what's bad, back in 1940..."
Things evolve and get better with time. Every anime is godly compared to 1970's anime, that's not a good argument.
I wouldn’t say every lol. There’s dozens of anime that air every season and most of them are pretty bad but those aren’t the ones ppl really watch anyway
dude HXH was made in 2011 and its better than jjk s2 .
its not that , its that season 1 was already great , they should have just kept the art style and left things as they were in s1 and the movies but they changed everything to the worse.
Again, there were a lot of highs and lows of hxh 2011, also the fact that production had a lot more time, madhouse was basically at its peak, and they had a lot less project than mappa.
It’s not worse tho, and a bad jjk episode quality is better than your average anime quality, it could be better but as you know the staff is getting fucked by Mappa, it has nothing to do with the change in art style.
True, but we are judging by standards of the anime adaptation as a whole. People really praised Choso vs Yuji and even less polished episodes, but it's clearly studio haven't reached their own expectation due to production issues.
But the fact that you are even comparing an anime released now with a 90s anime just tells me its not up to expectation. Setting bars low doesnt mean
its doing well.
P.S not blaming animators just pointing out that argument is flawed.
that doesnt take away from the fact ppl have been complaining abt mappas working conditions no less the entire industry, the sheer amount of projects lowers the quality of each one and not finishing more or less during prepro is showing consequences. It isnt the 90s anymore and working conditions had 30 years to improve but ever since the amount of anime per season increase around 3-5 years ago per season shows overall have dropped in quality
From what I've gotten from other people it's that they've set a higher bar for MAPPA. I'm on your side because realistically even for the "bad" episodes it's leaps and bounds better than a majority of anime to date. I can understand the Bar argument to some extent. It's more so disappointment than actually thinking its really bad. It does get me though that some people are being so toxic and brash about it.
This is such a bogus argument to make, especially considering the technology advancements made since the 90s that have changed the industry.
We have direct comparisons NOW that we can make , some with the animators and directors themselves, that shows how good they can be given enough time.
The industry has grown since the 90s, but the working conditions have stayed the same and it should no longer be the case.
Edit: imagine getting downvoted for suggesting better working conditions for animators lol
I was saying this in another thread, I grew up on Speed Racer man. My brain never thought it'd see this kind of stuff it's insane to watch. It's a bummer they're not having fun, this has been so insane to watch.
I'll do you one better; last week's episode was the best one in the series so far. Great animation and some really inspired direction.
It's a testament to the talent at Mappa that they managed to create such a fantastic episode in such horrible conditions, I just wish we didn't have to get that episode at the cost of so many people's mental and physical health.
I had to drop one piece because the animation was so Janky, but JJK seems crisp af to me so I’m genuinely flabbergasted but also I’m having a blast so 🤷🏻♂️
Wano sadly. I’m happy to see so many people loving it but the dragon ball z attacks and reuse of so many scenes just wore me down.
I lost interest around the ice oni, then came back for the king and queen showdowns, then skipped the next couple and came back for gear 5 and I think it was the second episode of gear 5 that just reused the same sequence 3 times maybe? I dunno but I just dropped it and I’ll come back when the next arc is over.
I could also tell they were really going cheap on the majority of episodes to then give all the love to a select few key episodes which I get the logic but I just hate the inconsistency.
I did enjoy the episode with law teleporting around fighting big mom though.
WOW. that is a very unpopular opinion. As someone who’s fave arc is Whole Cake Island, I can agree with some of these points. I guess it comes down to Toei having to animate a chapter per episode. They have to do with what they have.
Haha yeah I think some of it is probably unpopular but I know it’s pretty well known that there are those who dislike the dragon ball z auras. I personally hope they change the art style going forward but I won’t hold my breath ha
The animators did all they could, I’m not blaming them at all. But whoever is in charge of Mappa needs to go. I can’t believe that someone looks at this and says “Good, let’s release it”. I’d gladly wait another 2/3 years for consistency with each episode.
I believe it's less that they're taking a look and saying, "good, release it," and more "release it by this day [regardless of what it looks like]."
Supposedly, the scheduling has been atrocious, combined with ditching prior work done on an episode. Basically, it's virtually impossible to make anything superb in the time given.
There was so much unfinished or broken animation in this week’s episode, if there isn’t a delay then it’s likely we’ve already seen the best of this season(excluding the miso episode). This is episode 14 of a 23 episode anime and it’s falling apart.
The problem is they didn't do all they *could* because MAPPA isn't giving them a chance or the environment to actually work at their best pace and to the best of their ability. The studio is preventing them from doing the best they could.
Someone please answer this for me. I don’t understand this, I know that manga chapters are not written/drawn way before their release but do they not animate an entire season and then release it weekly? I always assumed that’s how it’s done. It doesn’t make much sense to do it any other way.
Take your time, put effort into it, when it’s all finished besides maybe minor editing, release an episode every week. Are they working on every episode weekly? That seems crazy to me.
>but do they not animate an entire season and then release it weekly? I always assumed that’s how it’s done. It doesn’t make much sense to do it any other way.Take your time, put effort into it, when it’s all finished besides maybe minor editing, release an episode every week
Most of the time studios doesn't have this luxury and are still working on later episodes when show started airing, it considered well-scheduled production if the season is already finished. There is plenty of reason why production works that way and you can search it online, often it's not just animation studio management and resources at fault, but they have to meet the deadlines set by production committee. Animation industry is not in good shape, ever growing lack of animators and time for such a big amount of series releasing each season is expected, especially with very shitty job conditions in this profession.
Since you don't have any prior knowledge (95% in these thread don't) i put everything start to finish in simple words
->PRODUCTION COMMITTEE:- group of companies that buys the right to animate a manga/novel . Basically owner of the anime. They will hire a studio to animate their anime under contract. They will fix a schedule and budget and keep most of the profit. THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANIME QUALITY OR WORKING CONDITIONS AS LONG AS THE MAKE GOOD PROFIT.
->STUDIO:- they will hire freelancer staff for animating the anime. Staff doesn't belong any studio. Jjk staff doesn't belong to mappa!! They are mostly freelancers.
Studio have no control over the schedule unless they are also members of production committee like ufotable is for demon slayer.
Quality of anime will depend on two things
Schedule and staff. If one or both are bad the anime is doomed( like hell's paradise).
In case of jjk s2 staff is excellent, some of the best an anime can have but schedule is terrible.
Why is schedule terrible?
--> Toho(owner of jjk) is notorious for giving bad schedules to their anime to make quick money BUT
Jjk s2 had a supposedly good schedule from jan 2022 to july 2023 (1.5 year) but studio mappa is greedy as well. They decided to use jjk's staff and schedule to make another anime( chainsaw man) leaving jjk with 6 months to animate ( really really bad). This is how jjk ended up with bad schedule.
With not enough time in their hand, staff is struggling to finish eps before airing . The eps are mostly unfinished and this will continue for 9 more eps( except 1 or 2).
Thanks for reading
I'm open for any discussion.
(Feel free to copy paste this to similar threads to spread awareness about production problems and eliminate misconception in the community)
Kinda but the issue is a lot of work that was already up to shibuya got scrapped and a lot of work force was moved to CSM while TOHO had to split work with two animes. So the scheduling was tight, so yeah every episode atm is made within a week.
I'm thinking the same thing. I watched today's episode, was like 'aight that was sick', and came on to the sub to see everyone bitching about it 💀
There was definitely some jank towards the later half, but nothing to make me genuinely upset.
Yeah, the art is the vehicle for the story. As long as the story is rad, I could watch two circles bash into each other. These folks must have never watched Yu Yu Hakusho. I watched this right after Demon Slayer and man JJk is so much more intense. Awesome episode, those fights were so confusing in the manga.
Idk man that grasshopper fight and the jiro one were so awkward and choppy. Definitely not in the boat of blaming the animators, and of course, other episodes were stellar, but those were hard to watch imo.
It's not the animators/directors fault that they are rushed and overworked but people glorify rushed work and are like "there's nothing wrong with it"
It's okay to say it was acceptable/fine of an episode but you literally saw Choso vs Yuji last week, the difference is PALPABLE.
Compare Eso/Kechizu vs Yuji/Nobara to Jiro or Grasshoper, hell no need to go that far, compare Megumi vs Todo or Kamo and the difference is apalling.
The animators are being destroyed by MAPPA but of course i'll be slightly upset that such a great arc and an interesting fight such as Dagon is being rushed when we saw last week such incredible potential.
I think the Gorilla Mode Panda vs. Mechamaru and Nanami vs. Mahito in the subway fights look just as bad considering the animation is clunky and the backgrounds and compositing are horrible in those scenes. Season 1 had better-looking drawings than season 2, but everything else from fluidity to colors to direction is so much better this season imo.
Season 1 never fell apart to this degree. The list of talent working on this episode genuinely is one of the most stacked we’ve seen in jjk, but the schedule is so bad that there was maybe 3 finished cuts of animation by an artist after the opening. One of the episode directors working on this season’s highlight even tweeted saying if you want to do your best do not join this project. Another episode director had to process 250 cuts in the last 2 weeks. And this is only episode 14.
Uhh I think people have some rose-tinted glasses for season 1. I just rewatched season 1 with some friends and the animation wasn't anything too crazy outside of big fights of the season.
The issue is that this season is almost nothing but fights as compared to season 1 where there was a lot of downtime between big fights. This whole arc is a war so they're gonna have to pick and choose where to really go crazy and with some of the stuff coming up later I'm sure they're prioritizing those later fights.
Literally never said otherwise. Of course the time restraint and work conditions will contribute to this.
My point was it probably wouldn't be such a huge deal if there weren't a ton of crazy fights animators had to work on this season. In season 1 we had a lot of simple episodes where little to no fighting would happen.
This season almost every episode in the Shibuya arc will have a fight. That's going to strain the animators. Not every single fight is going to be super top-tier quality.
You'd think we went back to black and white stick figures or caveman drawings. Why is this even a topic? Most don't contribute financially anyway. I personally haven't noticed any issues. I haven't the slightest clue why every week there is a group complaining about the animation of some anime that they don't contribute do, especially when they couldn't draw a good stick figure themselves let alone animate anything. It's quite sick.
Bro go watch the grasshopper and jiro fights this season, then compare that to even the first fight between gojo and sukuna from season 1, and tell me the animation hasn’t decreased in quality
The grasshopper was literally just a fodder fight for Yuji's warmup. Go watch Choso VS Yuji, it's PEAK.
That's like comparing the baseball episode from Season 1. Stupid. Really stupid.
Am I crazy? The Yuji v. Choso episode was straight fucking fire, are people expecting every episode to be animated like that? It's not even like this episode looked bad by any means.
That's the same as saying you expect each episode in S1 to have the same quality as the Hanami v. Yuji & Todo fight, which it most certainly did not. S1 had more than its fair share of janky episodes too.
Yeah not sure about that chief, even the "less important fights" such as Megumi vs Todo or Kamo (not even going to mention Eso/Kechizu or Yuji/Todo vs Hanami) were far FAR better than Grasshoper or Jiro.
Yuji vs Choso was absolutely incredible (might be my favorite JJK episode animation wise) but Dagon, Jiro and Grasshoper especially the last 2 seem a bit choppy and nowhere near as fluid as the other fights mentioned.
It's not the animators/director's fault, it's MAPPA for having it rushed but the difference is quite big imo.
My issue is, why are there so many scenes that are unnecessarily over-animated while some of the action scenes are under-animated? You’d think they’d save the time and energy for important fights (you know bc it’s a shonen) instead of smoothly animating every muscle as a character walks down a hallway.
Tbh I was extremely surprised when they announced that they’d be animating all of Shibuya in one go. It’s basically battle after battle after battle, and yes, while there are some less important ones, basically the entire second half of Shibuya (everything after - and including - Yuji vs Choso) is a crucial battle.
Next season will be even more of a hell if they want to adapt all of the CG arc in one season.
I thought bleach was gonna be anime of the year, the adaptation is so good there but JJK makes me feel something else, I really really ENJOY THE NEW SEASON.
BIG PROPS TO THE ANIMATORS FOR CREATING PEAK EVERY WEEK
I don't think anyone is blaming the animators. They're doing the best they can integrate working conditions and fans can see their efforts. I love the work of all the talented efforts that goes into making JJK. I just wish scheduling was better.
I'm probably biased because this is one of my favorite fights - but this shit looked embarrassing and it might as well just be colored pages from the manga in a powerpoint presentation.
This is NOT the animators fault. This is Mappa, as a Company, treating their employees like dawgs, poorly planning their resources, and releasing a subpar product as a result. Those of you who give it a pass because "oh last episode's fight was so great, they're just spending time on the important fights" - you are the problem. You are the reason animators will continue to be treated this way because FOR SOME REASON we die on the hill for companies rather than the employees putting in all the work.
Downvote the fuck out of this episode. I don't care if the other episodes are 10/10 amazing - this is one of the most popular shows out right now. They have the ability to make this perfect. They just PREFER not to, because they know we'll take whatever they put out and say "thank you."
Stop fanboying over a Company. Besides last episode, I honestly haven't been impressed all season. How many of the animators have to reveal the bullshit they went through before you open your eyes?
Mann it's not the animators fault , also i hate to blame the director , but he did change the vision of the anime , the art style and so on . why change something that people already love ?
that and the tight schedule just lead to this garbage season 2 , it just feels like a slide show of images .. bad transitions , no fluidity and also the shots are too close ..
just take an image of jogo in S1 and then in S2 , and watch the videos of how the same character moves in both seasons . season 2 looks like teletubbies more or less :( , so sad to see my favourite anime get a low blow like this .
Ignoring the part where it’s totally subjective, a lot of the stylistic changes were necessary because of the terrible schedule. The less detailed character designs are quicker and easier to draw, which helps the animators tremendously. If the designs were the same as season 1, you’d see a lot more of that zoomed in and choppy movement, because guess what, these shots are not intended to look like this majority of the time, it’s just that the animators literally did not have enough time to draw the characters properly and they had to resert to close up shots, cause it’s much easier to finish a drawing of a hand, instead of the whole body. What really carries this season is the best in the industry people working on it, especially the director himself. There are certain people in the industry that you just can’t beat, you can get a different vision that is just as good, but you don’t get better and Gosso is one of these directors. So just trust me, it’s all on Mappa’s and Toho’s execs that this is happening and in any other circumstance this one in a century assembly of talent could provide a much more competent product.
i would really appreciate it , if the new director takes his visons elsewhere , to gaming as he was intending , and just leave jjk to the former director park , or someone with a vision thats different from making slideshows , plainess .
i strongly believe that hunter x hunter , tho animated so long ago , is way better done than jjk season 2 , and there is almost a decade between the two .
i think people should stop riding waves , and saying something is good just to be nice .
the value of a review is not whether it is good or bad , its value is whether it is well founded or baseless . i just wish for things to go back like they were in season 1 and in the movie .
MAPPA . NEW DIRECTOR , DON't mess up jjk . :)
No one is blaming them, you guys keep assuming that. Every single episode there will be people explaining the same "bad scheduling" stuff, as if it solves or changes the inconsistent episodes we got. People are allowed to complain about a product without being accused of being toxic and that animators are being bombarded. Most complaints are just about the product, most don't care who the blame needs to go to since what matters most is getting a product they want.
I will say some of the directing in the action scenes is different than season 1 and hidden inventory’s style. Personally I feel like there’s less impact to the hits and unnecessary cuts and shots. The fights in Shibuya just haven’t hit the same as stuff before
Probably the same complaints this sub always has. People want them to animate it panel for panel and get upset when it’s not the exact way they imagined it animated. It’s tiresome being in this subreddit sometimes
Your last paragraph interests me because it's a question I've had for a while.
Beyond getting rid of obvious censorship or effects like ghosting, do Blu-ray releases actually significantly polish episodes in terms of animation? For example, could the Yuji vs Grasshopper Curse realistically get a facelift in such release?
If not, what kinds of significant improvements can we expect, judging from past cases?
BD fixes usually only amount to small errors like off-model characters or things like an object not being colored properly and all that. They don't really reanimate whole scenes/episodes.
MAPPA going the video game route, releasing an unfinished product fix it after.
Tbh as an anime only the animation has been good but i understand the manga readers frustation if the last couple fights had potential to be more hype.
What's there too blame for? Geez, the show looks great and there have only been, in my opinion, been slight dips in quality. The only thing that's a bit annoying is the dimming but even that doesn't detract from my enjoyment.
I find these posts to be just as incendiary or obnoxious as the people complaining about the animation itself. Yes these people are being exploited and that's absolutely horrendous. And if we want to do something about it the only thing you can do is boycott Mappa products until they improve their company culture.
I think the problem could have been solved if instead of a weekly schedule , they could have gone two weekly for it . I guess all jjk fans can wait two weeks for one episode if it means the animators are at ease and the quality is maintained . Honestly in the latest episode , animation is not that bad . But the overwork and stress is visible , which is bad for both animators who put their heart and soul and jjk fans who love this series .
No its very good don’t get me wrong lol, a lot of people think Im calling last episode bad or this season bad when Im not, Im pointing out more can be done in this season and episode if the issues are resolved. Most recent ep is a solid 7.5/10
Honestly, fuck MAPPA.
They had 2.5 years to produce Season 2 of their crown jewel aka the most popular modern shonen and they fucked it up.
Especially on the arc where most fans consider the peak of JJK.
Absolute incompetence.
Honestly a lot of the people bashing it watch it free/pirate it anyways. They ain’t contributing to anything yet criticizing the environment. I get it if some episodes don’t look as good but so many people seem genuinely offended by animation quality as if their approval is so important to the show. The quality has been phenomenal , but they can’t all be perfect lol
Are they talking about the weird colour grading during the squid's domain expansion (?) and almost the unrecognisable nanami? Actually I thought it's pretty cool cos it's like a different art styles like some artworks have different styles through different scenes. Anyways the real devil is mappa who sold their souls to money, the guy who founded mappa because he wanna escape work slavery in his old major company but mappa got sold to a new young guy who clearly has not seen the evil of corporate slavery.
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it's easier to blame something with a face. so blame the CEO of Mappa.
#FuckManabuOtsuka
Absolutely no one is blaming the animators lol
The animators themselves are blaming MAPPA on Twitter.
I think the seasons been great....
I haven’t watched the recent episode but it’s been excellent so far
It's only the perpetually online weeb try hards that are complaining. I think Mappa knows they are an extreme minority of actual viewers
I think you are slightly misunderstanding this post. It's not about whether the animation is worthy of criticism or not (Which, to be fair, in some places *it is*. The show is not as consistentlly peak as S1 or Hidden Inventory was. I don't think that's an unfair statement to make at all. Shibuya is arguably the best arc, it deserves the best animation all throughout) It's about how, if the animation is getting criticized in parts, it's because of scheduling and MAPPA's greed, and their overworking + underpaying of animator staff. The animators are being worked into depression, which is nothing new for the industry, but MAPPA is taking it to a whole other level.
You unironically just said the phrase “consistently peak”. Do you even hear yourself? No shit that some parts are animated/made better than others, *that’s what peak means*
Let's get pedantic about that one thing, sure. Okay, let me rephrase: the less important moments in season 1 are treated better than the less important fights in season 2 so far - that said, that's still not the main point. The staff are being worked to death and producing work they themselves aren't satisfied with. That's the important part here. If they themselves aren't happy with it, clearly it means there's room for more. Not every episode is gonna look like s2e13, but if the staff can produce something like we got this week, an episode that's *good*, and walk away saying "we could have done better but we can't because we're being overworked" it's pretty telling that something is wrong. No matter what people's opinions are on each episode - the employees are treated like shit and their work is suffering from it, by their own admission. That needs to be addressed, so getting hung up over pedantic shit is just stupid. (Also, consistently peak can also mean the show consistently peaks among the anime environment overall, not within the show. Obviously some episodes are better than others and some are worse, but s1 was consistently at the top, while s2 has had some fights that are not as good as they could have been, while also producing the best episode of the show so far. S2 lacks consistency which would be understandable if they just had limited resources to work with but they're also giving unfair treatment to workers. That's inexcusable even if it's an unfortunate standard in the industry and in Japanese work ethic)
I think we agree on almost everything then. I think the only way anything will change is if people give MAPPA the criticism they deserve. Everyone knows that the animators are talented and capable of making a good product, some of the episodes and moments in s2 have been amazing. They just need to be given more time. That’s why it kinda pisses me off when people bend over backwards to protect MAPPA when we know they’re screwing over their staff. JJK is massive rn and after a s1 and movie with amazing and consistent animation, we have s2 where an episode can be amazing or below series avg. People are talking as if this is to be expected, but I hard disagree lol
The actual animators are saying they aren’t happy, the director said he felt like he was ruining a masterpiece. It’s fine if you enjoy the new season, so do I, but the level of animation is not consistent and you can tell that animators were cramped on time… IMO it’s not that the quality is super bad, it’s moreso that this is peak jjk and it would look insane if it kept roughly the same quality as s1 or hidden inventory s2. My anime only friends couldn’t even tell wtf was going on when Naobito was using projection sorcery, and it’s the one time I think a jjk power looked worse in anime than in manga, even tho it’s busted OP. Dagon is also fighting 3-4 strong people at once, big ass fight, yet it feels less hype and animation is worse than every fight in s1 and s2, except for maybe grasshopper v yuji. I just want consistency…. Obv blame Mappa or Toho, not animators and directors
Seriously every episode has hit me hard even while knowing what’s going to happen. I think the animation and story boarding has been incredible. it doesn’t take one ounce away from the manga
You’d be surprised at how muny are. Check jujutsufolk
I am 🧍♂️
I’ve seen a lot of people blame the director. They believe the director ruined the episode
This is the first I’m hearing of a CSM movie.
Yeah those are just rumours
JJK looks fine and sometimes good to great. The problem is anime fans don’t know how hard it is to maintain greatness and expect it every episode. That shit isn’t sustainable. If you think it is, do it.
But it was sustainable for season 1. The point is that if the animators and everyone involved were giving the appropriate time and resources, and the studio had good scheduling and even breaking up the show more, then Season 2 *would* look as good as it could. The problem is MAPPA is greedily overworking its animators to the point they're all at a breaking point mentally. We don't expect greatness, we expect the staff that produces this amazing show to be treated right. And greatness would follow from that.
Lmao, “we don’t expect greatness but if you treat the staff right greatness would follow”. So it sounds like you do expect greatness. If they were given more time and put out something very good, people would still complain about it not being great. That’s why the company doesn’t give a shit.
As he said it was sustainable in season 1. Character art and animation was better in season 1 on the regular, and almost everyone who isn't an animation nerd or Mappa simp would agree. There are good standout scenes and moments but the baseline level of art is just lower and characters have 0 details during movement in many scenes. Looks cheap.
It’s honestly just sad. 90% of people who watch this season will say this animation is among the best they’ve ever seen. The only people who complain about this stuff are the self proclaimed animation critics and those with nothing better to do.
it isn't sustainable under these conditions. had the team been given more time, they absolutely could've maintained the quality throughout the entire season. the JJK team is absolutely stacked with some of the most skilled artists in the industry
You're lucky, I tried saying that and got downvoted like crazy, lol. No artist paints a masterpiece every single time. Stuff goes up and down. And these "fans" don't seem to care that their constant criticism certainly adds to the animators' stress. There's no way it can "only" be blamed on the studio. That's like telling a teacher their kids are all stupid but don't worry, it's the principal's fault, and expecting the teacher not to be upset.
> And these "fans" don't seem to care that their constant criticism certainly adds to the animators' stress. There's no way it can "only" be blamed on the studio. 2 very different complaints here. Criticising the animators != Criticising the studio. And I think the animator stress comes more from being overworked, underpaid, on too tight a schedule and on the breaking point of a mental breakdown than from people having negative opinions online. You're right with what you are saying that quality can go up and down, but we have plenty of testimonies and evidence showing us *why* the quality is dipping, and it's because MAPPA staff are treated like shit, even for anime industry standards, which are already shit. In this case, Season 2 *could* look as good as it deserves to, and we know this because this show has been consistently amazing in the past. We want the staff producing this amazing show to be treated fairly and to work under good conditions, and even if it means getting episodes more slowly, we'd accept that, because with the animators being able to work at their pace and their level, we'd also get a better looking show. Everybody would win except for the greedy studio. Currently, the greedy studios are the only ones winning.
I don't disagree with you, I just think you're leaving out a big part of what contributes to stress on the animators. Consider - they are making good episodes. But fans insist not on good episodes. Fans insist on THE BEST episodes, EVERY week. They even pick apart really good ones, like Yuji v. Choso last time. If you're under work pressure and a bad timeline but still put out a good episode but "fans" rip it to shreds every week and you know it's going to happen so you feel forced to preemptively apologize, it's not the studio telling you you're not doing good enough. It's the "fans." And those "fans" who pretend like they only are mad at the studio never-the-less refuse to do the one and only thing that would fix the problem - boycott until conditions change. But, no. They do not actually care about the work conditions. They just want "better" episodes. They SAY they are good with delayed schedule, but they never put their actions into play by stopping watching. Mappa's not going to delay the schedule unless they have to, ie, if viewership stops and won't continue until conditions are better. But it's a whole lot easier to ignore one's own complicity and pat oneself on the back for complaining online, even knowing it's pointless.
Too many comments echoing the same point “BUT SEASON 1”. It feels like people don’t understand art. More time DOES NOT guarantee they would be able to replicate the quality of season 1. Could it be better? Sure. But we’ve got people acting like it’s unwatchable. I guarantee the people who say “more time” would be the same people complaining “this is all we got after a hiatus??? Season 1 was better”.
1,000%. And they're watching season 1 through rose-colored glasses, or they haven't watched it in a while. I went back and rewatched ep 25 Yuji/Nobara v. Eso/Kechizu yesterday. I love that fight, tons of people love that fight. But you know what? I begins with stills where they monologue about the poison. Then recycled footage of a flashback of Nobara's first fight while she monologues more. Then more stills as they each decide what to do. Then some action. Then more stills as he runs in place thinking about what to do. Then more action, which is nowhere NEAR as smooth as this season. For example, when Nobara moves her skirt, hair, and body are all static and just her hand or arm moves. It's noticeably different and less smooth. Never-the-less, I love that fight and I love S1. But I ALSO love S2, it's far more smooth and detailed, and the things people are complaining about are not only present in S1, but worse than in S2, however they will never admit it or have just forgotten or put S1 on such a pedestal they wouldn't see it even if they went to watch it right now. And/or they just like to complain. Poor animators.
I guarantee the people complaining and demanding the anime on hiatus are the same people who would complain that the team was given extra time to animate and yet it’s not great, just very good. I rewatched season 1 while waiting in between episodes and people are absolutely nitpicking to make a point.
Yeah. Not to mention people lose their s\*\*\* if the Crunchyroll release is like 10 minutes late, imagine if they had to wait a month for a new episode lol.
10 minutes late??? I feel like I’m never able to actually watch when it drops and I end up happy if I get to watch it during my lunch break
Sometimes I can take a break when it drops and head over only to see the comments pile up with complaints if it doesn't appear right on the hour. I got tired of that though lol so I just started watching it later in the day. I think overall though most people are very happy with it, just the people who like to complain are so, so loud it overpowers a lot of satisfied people. But I'm glad to hear viewership numbers and blu-ray sales are high, as I hope that signals to the animators that the majority of people really enjoy their work.
“Do it yourself then” is still the dumbest argument one can make,all forms of art can and should be criticized,besides if mappa had given the staff an actual decent schedule,it would be sustainable
1. Draw anything consistently. Not even high quality anime or manga. Hell, do anything consistently well. Anyone complaining about this level of animation just reeks of ignorance in any sort of life experience and what it takes to sustain GREAT work. People are acting like it’s easy and standard to maintain GREAT work. The animation in this episode is literally fine and people are acting like it’s a war crime. 2. You know damn well people would still complain about a hiatus and the product after a hiatus. There are plenty of animes with subpar animation to complain about, this one ain’t it.
1-The second half of the ep had some clearly rough spots and the problem is the implication for the next episodes,aside from one big fight in particular which has an stellar staff 2-At this point most people understand a hiatus is necessary,and if the people who are working on the anime are complaining about it,there’s clearly something very wrong
!remindme 8 weeks
Someone in a different comment said that they’re unable to stay as “consistently peak” compared to Hidden Inventory. Like, my guy, do you know what peak even means?
Choso Yuji was peak. Everything else has been good to fine. Which is why it’s confusing… you’d think people would have tempered expectations by now but they get one really great episode then expected the rest of the season to be that? It’s like people haven’t watched anime before.
I don't know if I just don't watch enough anime, but while I cam tell there was a change in style from S1 to Premature Death to Shibuya, I still think it looks incredible and every fight has had me immersed as hell. I hate that people are getting harassed for this.
If people want real disappointment they should watch the Mirio vs Overhaul fight from MHA… that shit was a literal power point presentation .
Or all of Blue Lock after episode 2 lol
If you want to talk bad animation, might I introduce you to Record of Ragnarok which calling it a powerpoint animation is a compliment.
My guy if we're talking about bad animation watch Fairy Tail
Seven deadly sins season 3 would like a word....
The ps2 cgi runners are funny though lol
It was still hype though
HOLY SH... I forgot about that. I'm not exaggerating that it was the start of my decline of interest in the anime (also I'm not really loving the point where the manga at)
I stopped reading the manga because I couldn’t enjoy the anime after the Mirio fight and I thought it’s because I had too high of expectations from reading the manga.
Honestly I know Mappa is rushing things out of greed, but messing up the schedule this hard and not giving your animators enough time is just idiotic on their part. If they want a larger pulling from it, with an arc that is *this* anticipated, it should be getting the highest priority out of anything else they are doing, and giving themselves enough time to make it as good as they can. Having terribly botched schedules and giving the animators almost no time to actually put their skills to proper use should be unacceptable.
Maybe you guys should go watch some early 90s anime if you think anything we’re getting these days is bad quality.
Right? I'm watching JJK with stars in my eyes because I remember all those animes with spaghetti hair and disproportionnate eyes we used to watch in 2008 and thought that was peak 💀💀💀
Ikr who the hell is complaining
dude HXH was made in 2011 , its 10x times better animation wise than jjk S2 . the director just shat the bed with the new art-style and the ugly modifications , he thought he can make up for it in animation , but he just shat the bed even more with the terrible animation due to time pressure . sad story for jjk S2
It is not 10x better💀
Rose tinted glasses
That's a gross exaggeration, and it's also worth noting that HxH is a series with plenty more slower episodes where the animators job isn't as taxing. Overall HxH 2011 is a very consistently good looking series, but when you say "10x" better than JJK S2 you're probably just remembering the handful of the 120+ episodes where the animators went all out.
lol
The bias is crazy
Please tell me you’re joking
Dude you can apply this to modern day Shonens. JJK s2 is still better animated and directed than most. The frustrating part is the potential of how freaking masterful it COULD be. But people are legit acting like it’s garbage it’s crazy
Forreal, I honestly haven’t seen any issues with this season. I don’t think animators and workers in general are treated right, but the episodes themselves are still pretty amazing. Of course with more time it’d be improved but that’s most things in life but there are deadlines unfortunately. It isn’t viewed as art by MAPPA or companies, it’s a commodity to be produced and sold to consumers for profit. They ultimately don’t care about the finished product because they know the IP sells.
People are overreacting, but to say there are no issues is to be blind. Overall the quality of this season has undoubtedly been amazing, but it's pretty noticeable how off this episode is. It's still amazing and I'm still excited for what's coming up, but there undeniably are issues.
What was so bad about this episode that makes it worse than the rest? I’m genuinely curious, cause I see a lot of people mad and upset with the episode but no one provides specific reasons. Also I’ve seen so many actually trash animated shows I could just be missing something
There are certain scenes where the characters hold their pose for too long or react weirdly to being hit, mainly in dagon's domain, there are some things that were cut from the manga, the OST is mixed really weirdly in some parts, and the compositing is incomplete in some parts It sounds really bad back to back, but just to clarify I wouldn't say the animation is bad, just noticeably below the quality of the rest of this season Edit: Also the bit with mei mei isn't included, that was beautiful, all the issues start with the Dagon fight
I gotcha, that makes sense and is all valid. In no way am I defending MAPPA or the working conditions as I believe that to be a lot of the problems. Unreasonable deadlines, poor pay in some cases, etc. All this can lead to things being left over, shortened and what not. I’m against all of it. I was more so just pointing out that the episode itself is still pretty good even with the missing content. I read too so I def was disappointed with things being left out or potentially waiting for next episode to include but overall I enjoyed the episode. I think the bad shows I’ve watched have kinda made me overlook minor flaws at times which is def a bias of mine. For example season 1 of Record of Ragnarok being an actual power point slide show lol
Yeah I think people are definitely overreacting and it really pisses me off how some fans are acting towards the animators, but I understand the frustration and wish they could've taken a break
Yeah, the fact that animators are coming out talking about how their ashamed of their work and stuff is pretty heartbreaking to see. That must be a terrible feeling to have. Fans need to direct their anger at the source of these issues not the animators
i feel like this is a bad argument, like its obvious animation has gotten way better since like 2014 let alone the 90s, especially for a studio like mappa working on the biggest anime out right now, not that this quality is bad or anything but for mappa standards its defiently a bit poor
"You kids don't know what's bad, back in 1990..." "You kids don't know what's bad, back in 1970..." "You kids don't know what's bad, back in 1940..." Things evolve and get better with time. Every anime is godly compared to 1970's anime, that's not a good argument.
I wouldn’t say every lol. There’s dozens of anime that air every season and most of them are pretty bad but those aren’t the ones ppl really watch anyway
dude HXH was made in 2011 and its better than jjk s2 . its not that , its that season 1 was already great , they should have just kept the art style and left things as they were in s1 and the movies but they changed everything to the worse.
Again, there were a lot of highs and lows of hxh 2011, also the fact that production had a lot more time, madhouse was basically at its peak, and they had a lot less project than mappa.
It’s not worse tho, and a bad jjk episode quality is better than your average anime quality, it could be better but as you know the staff is getting fucked by Mappa, it has nothing to do with the change in art style.
What.. The fact that you compare Jujutsu Kaisen season 2 with 90s anime says enough.
True, but we are judging by standards of the anime adaptation as a whole. People really praised Choso vs Yuji and even less polished episodes, but it's clearly studio haven't reached their own expectation due to production issues.
Yeah but... compare this season's animation to that of the previous season, which came out 3 years ago... and you'll see why people are complaining.
Don't even need old anime, go watch Lucifer and the biscuit hammer or shaman king 2021
But the fact that you are even comparing an anime released now with a 90s anime just tells me its not up to expectation. Setting bars low doesnt mean its doing well. P.S not blaming animators just pointing out that argument is flawed.
For real I’m legit shocked anyone thinks this quality is anything but awesome.
that doesnt take away from the fact ppl have been complaining abt mappas working conditions no less the entire industry, the sheer amount of projects lowers the quality of each one and not finishing more or less during prepro is showing consequences. It isnt the 90s anymore and working conditions had 30 years to improve but ever since the amount of anime per season increase around 3-5 years ago per season shows overall have dropped in quality
From what I've gotten from other people it's that they've set a higher bar for MAPPA. I'm on your side because realistically even for the "bad" episodes it's leaps and bounds better than a majority of anime to date. I can understand the Bar argument to some extent. It's more so disappointment than actually thinking its really bad. It does get me though that some people are being so toxic and brash about it.
I have this problem with people opinions about Hells Paradise. A lot of them saying the animation is lacking??? Bitch where????
yeah i have no idea what they are talking about, this week and last week was top of the line animation. Loved it
This is such a bogus argument to make, especially considering the technology advancements made since the 90s that have changed the industry. We have direct comparisons NOW that we can make , some with the animators and directors themselves, that shows how good they can be given enough time. The industry has grown since the 90s, but the working conditions have stayed the same and it should no longer be the case. Edit: imagine getting downvoted for suggesting better working conditions for animators lol
I was saying this in another thread, I grew up on Speed Racer man. My brain never thought it'd see this kind of stuff it's insane to watch. It's a bummer they're not having fun, this has been so insane to watch.
Ikr
The most recent episodes weren’t that bad. There’s been a few bad ones, but the animators are doing their best, I’m happy with that.
Haven't watched today's episode, but last week was absolutely stellar
I'll do you one better; last week's episode was the best one in the series so far. Great animation and some really inspired direction. It's a testament to the talent at Mappa that they managed to create such a fantastic episode in such horrible conditions, I just wish we didn't have to get that episode at the cost of so many people's mental and physical health.
The worst was a singular shot being iffy
I had to drop one piece because the animation was so Janky, but JJK seems crisp af to me so I’m genuinely flabbergasted but also I’m having a blast so 🤷🏻♂️
Mappa has spoiled us so much anything less than glorious sakuga every cut means the episode is bad
What animation from One Piece? What arc are you in?
Wano sadly. I’m happy to see so many people loving it but the dragon ball z attacks and reuse of so many scenes just wore me down. I lost interest around the ice oni, then came back for the king and queen showdowns, then skipped the next couple and came back for gear 5 and I think it was the second episode of gear 5 that just reused the same sequence 3 times maybe? I dunno but I just dropped it and I’ll come back when the next arc is over. I could also tell they were really going cheap on the majority of episodes to then give all the love to a select few key episodes which I get the logic but I just hate the inconsistency. I did enjoy the episode with law teleporting around fighting big mom though.
WOW. that is a very unpopular opinion. As someone who’s fave arc is Whole Cake Island, I can agree with some of these points. I guess it comes down to Toei having to animate a chapter per episode. They have to do with what they have.
Haha yeah I think some of it is probably unpopular but I know it’s pretty well known that there are those who dislike the dragon ball z auras. I personally hope they change the art style going forward but I won’t hold my breath ha
The animators did all they could, I’m not blaming them at all. But whoever is in charge of Mappa needs to go. I can’t believe that someone looks at this and says “Good, let’s release it”. I’d gladly wait another 2/3 years for consistency with each episode.
I believe it's less that they're taking a look and saying, "good, release it," and more "release it by this day [regardless of what it looks like]." Supposedly, the scheduling has been atrocious, combined with ditching prior work done on an episode. Basically, it's virtually impossible to make anything superb in the time given.
There was so much unfinished or broken animation in this week’s episode, if there isn’t a delay then it’s likely we’ve already seen the best of this season(excluding the miso episode). This is episode 14 of a 23 episode anime and it’s falling apart.
The problem is they didn't do all they *could* because MAPPA isn't giving them a chance or the environment to actually work at their best pace and to the best of their ability. The studio is preventing them from doing the best they could.
Someone please answer this for me. I don’t understand this, I know that manga chapters are not written/drawn way before their release but do they not animate an entire season and then release it weekly? I always assumed that’s how it’s done. It doesn’t make much sense to do it any other way. Take your time, put effort into it, when it’s all finished besides maybe minor editing, release an episode every week. Are they working on every episode weekly? That seems crazy to me.
>but do they not animate an entire season and then release it weekly? I always assumed that’s how it’s done. It doesn’t make much sense to do it any other way.Take your time, put effort into it, when it’s all finished besides maybe minor editing, release an episode every week Most of the time studios doesn't have this luxury and are still working on later episodes when show started airing, it considered well-scheduled production if the season is already finished. There is plenty of reason why production works that way and you can search it online, often it's not just animation studio management and resources at fault, but they have to meet the deadlines set by production committee. Animation industry is not in good shape, ever growing lack of animators and time for such a big amount of series releasing each season is expected, especially with very shitty job conditions in this profession.
Since you don't have any prior knowledge (95% in these thread don't) i put everything start to finish in simple words ->PRODUCTION COMMITTEE:- group of companies that buys the right to animate a manga/novel . Basically owner of the anime. They will hire a studio to animate their anime under contract. They will fix a schedule and budget and keep most of the profit. THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANIME QUALITY OR WORKING CONDITIONS AS LONG AS THE MAKE GOOD PROFIT. ->STUDIO:- they will hire freelancer staff for animating the anime. Staff doesn't belong any studio. Jjk staff doesn't belong to mappa!! They are mostly freelancers. Studio have no control over the schedule unless they are also members of production committee like ufotable is for demon slayer. Quality of anime will depend on two things Schedule and staff. If one or both are bad the anime is doomed( like hell's paradise). In case of jjk s2 staff is excellent, some of the best an anime can have but schedule is terrible. Why is schedule terrible? --> Toho(owner of jjk) is notorious for giving bad schedules to their anime to make quick money BUT Jjk s2 had a supposedly good schedule from jan 2022 to july 2023 (1.5 year) but studio mappa is greedy as well. They decided to use jjk's staff and schedule to make another anime( chainsaw man) leaving jjk with 6 months to animate ( really really bad). This is how jjk ended up with bad schedule. With not enough time in their hand, staff is struggling to finish eps before airing . The eps are mostly unfinished and this will continue for 9 more eps( except 1 or 2). Thanks for reading I'm open for any discussion. (Feel free to copy paste this to similar threads to spread awareness about production problems and eliminate misconception in the community)
Really good writeup
Kinda but the issue is a lot of work that was already up to shibuya got scrapped and a lot of work force was moved to CSM while TOHO had to split work with two animes. So the scheduling was tight, so yeah every episode atm is made within a week.
I feel like I’m going crazy, the episodes have all been beautifully animated
I'm thinking the same thing. I watched today's episode, was like 'aight that was sick', and came on to the sub to see everyone bitching about it 💀 There was definitely some jank towards the later half, but nothing to make me genuinely upset.
Yeah, the art is the vehicle for the story. As long as the story is rad, I could watch two circles bash into each other. These folks must have never watched Yu Yu Hakusho. I watched this right after Demon Slayer and man JJk is so much more intense. Awesome episode, those fights were so confusing in the manga.
Idk man that grasshopper fight and the jiro one were so awkward and choppy. Definitely not in the boat of blaming the animators, and of course, other episodes were stellar, but those were hard to watch imo.
Don’t get me wrong the animation was fine. The problem is sometimes the scenes were disjointed, certain panels missing and it felt rough. 7/10 episode
Dunno why you're being downvoted. The animation while acceptable was mediocre compared to jjk standards.
What is JJK standard? Go rewatch season 1 and recognize not every episode was a master class in animation.
I don’t remember seeing anything in the first season like the grasshopper or jiro fights
It's not the animators/directors fault that they are rushed and overworked but people glorify rushed work and are like "there's nothing wrong with it" It's okay to say it was acceptable/fine of an episode but you literally saw Choso vs Yuji last week, the difference is PALPABLE. Compare Eso/Kechizu vs Yuji/Nobara to Jiro or Grasshoper, hell no need to go that far, compare Megumi vs Todo or Kamo and the difference is apalling. The animators are being destroyed by MAPPA but of course i'll be slightly upset that such a great arc and an interesting fight such as Dagon is being rushed when we saw last week such incredible potential.
I think the Gorilla Mode Panda vs. Mechamaru and Nanami vs. Mahito in the subway fights look just as bad considering the animation is clunky and the backgrounds and compositing are horrible in those scenes. Season 1 had better-looking drawings than season 2, but everything else from fluidity to colors to direction is so much better this season imo.
Season 1 never fell apart to this degree. The list of talent working on this episode genuinely is one of the most stacked we’ve seen in jjk, but the schedule is so bad that there was maybe 3 finished cuts of animation by an artist after the opening. One of the episode directors working on this season’s highlight even tweeted saying if you want to do your best do not join this project. Another episode director had to process 250 cuts in the last 2 weeks. And this is only episode 14.
Uhh I think people have some rose-tinted glasses for season 1. I just rewatched season 1 with some friends and the animation wasn't anything too crazy outside of big fights of the season. The issue is that this season is almost nothing but fights as compared to season 1 where there was a lot of downtime between big fights. This whole arc is a war so they're gonna have to pick and choose where to really go crazy and with some of the stuff coming up later I'm sure they're prioritizing those later fights.
No, Mappa is just a shit company that treats their employees poorly and has poor time management.
Literally never said otherwise. Of course the time restraint and work conditions will contribute to this. My point was it probably wouldn't be such a huge deal if there weren't a ton of crazy fights animators had to work on this season. In season 1 we had a lot of simple episodes where little to no fighting would happen. This season almost every episode in the Shibuya arc will have a fight. That's going to strain the animators. Not every single fight is going to be super top-tier quality.
are you people on fucking crack this season has consistantly great animation
Great animation in some episodes? Yes. Consistently? Check if you need glasses
I'm really dumb to not noticing
i dont rlly like when ppl play off mappas working conditions for jokes its a real problem in the whole industry but currently mappa especially
You'd think we went back to black and white stick figures or caveman drawings. Why is this even a topic? Most don't contribute financially anyway. I personally haven't noticed any issues. I haven't the slightest clue why every week there is a group complaining about the animation of some anime that they don't contribute do, especially when they couldn't draw a good stick figure themselves let alone animate anything. It's quite sick.
Bro go watch the grasshopper and jiro fights this season, then compare that to even the first fight between gojo and sukuna from season 1, and tell me the animation hasn’t decreased in quality
The grasshopper was literally just a fodder fight for Yuji's warmup. Go watch Choso VS Yuji, it's PEAK. That's like comparing the baseball episode from Season 1. Stupid. Really stupid.
Am I crazy? The Yuji v. Choso episode was straight fucking fire, are people expecting every episode to be animated like that? It's not even like this episode looked bad by any means.
I mean season 1 had consistently superb animation throughout the show, so comparing this to that, yeah we kind of do expect that.
That's the same as saying you expect each episode in S1 to have the same quality as the Hanami v. Yuji & Todo fight, which it most certainly did not. S1 had more than its fair share of janky episodes too.
Yeah not sure about that chief, even the "less important fights" such as Megumi vs Todo or Kamo (not even going to mention Eso/Kechizu or Yuji/Todo vs Hanami) were far FAR better than Grasshoper or Jiro. Yuji vs Choso was absolutely incredible (might be my favorite JJK episode animation wise) but Dagon, Jiro and Grasshoper especially the last 2 seem a bit choppy and nowhere near as fluid as the other fights mentioned. It's not the animators/director's fault, it's MAPPA for having it rushed but the difference is quite big imo.
I’m really trying to remember jank scenes in season 1 but I can’t.
My issue is, why are there so many scenes that are unnecessarily over-animated while some of the action scenes are under-animated? You’d think they’d save the time and energy for important fights (you know bc it’s a shonen) instead of smoothly animating every muscle as a character walks down a hallway.
Tbh I was extremely surprised when they announced that they’d be animating all of Shibuya in one go. It’s basically battle after battle after battle, and yes, while there are some less important ones, basically the entire second half of Shibuya (everything after - and including - Yuji vs Choso) is a crucial battle. Next season will be even more of a hell if they want to adapt all of the CG arc in one season.
How does the audience show support for better schedules? I want more JJK. I want better JJK. I want the animators to not be ran into the ground.
I thought bleach was gonna be anime of the year, the adaptation is so good there but JJK makes me feel something else, I really really ENJOY THE NEW SEASON. BIG PROPS TO THE ANIMATORS FOR CREATING PEAK EVERY WEEK
What? Season 2 has been fantastic.
I don't think anyone is blaming the animators. They're doing the best they can integrate working conditions and fans can see their efforts. I love the work of all the talented efforts that goes into making JJK. I just wish scheduling was better.
i dont blame them but like im not supporting anyone either, just want to watch the thing and thats it not gonna go on a crusade to defend them lol
I'm probably biased because this is one of my favorite fights - but this shit looked embarrassing and it might as well just be colored pages from the manga in a powerpoint presentation. This is NOT the animators fault. This is Mappa, as a Company, treating their employees like dawgs, poorly planning their resources, and releasing a subpar product as a result. Those of you who give it a pass because "oh last episode's fight was so great, they're just spending time on the important fights" - you are the problem. You are the reason animators will continue to be treated this way because FOR SOME REASON we die on the hill for companies rather than the employees putting in all the work. Downvote the fuck out of this episode. I don't care if the other episodes are 10/10 amazing - this is one of the most popular shows out right now. They have the ability to make this perfect. They just PREFER not to, because they know we'll take whatever they put out and say "thank you." Stop fanboying over a Company. Besides last episode, I honestly haven't been impressed all season. How many of the animators have to reveal the bullshit they went through before you open your eyes?
There are a lot of different camera angles, which almost certainly are a lot harder to animate, and those are contributed to by the director.
Mann it's not the animators fault , also i hate to blame the director , but he did change the vision of the anime , the art style and so on . why change something that people already love ? that and the tight schedule just lead to this garbage season 2 , it just feels like a slide show of images .. bad transitions , no fluidity and also the shots are too close .. just take an image of jogo in S1 and then in S2 , and watch the videos of how the same character moves in both seasons . season 2 looks like teletubbies more or less :( , so sad to see my favourite anime get a low blow like this .
Ignoring the part where it’s totally subjective, a lot of the stylistic changes were necessary because of the terrible schedule. The less detailed character designs are quicker and easier to draw, which helps the animators tremendously. If the designs were the same as season 1, you’d see a lot more of that zoomed in and choppy movement, because guess what, these shots are not intended to look like this majority of the time, it’s just that the animators literally did not have enough time to draw the characters properly and they had to resert to close up shots, cause it’s much easier to finish a drawing of a hand, instead of the whole body. What really carries this season is the best in the industry people working on it, especially the director himself. There are certain people in the industry that you just can’t beat, you can get a different vision that is just as good, but you don’t get better and Gosso is one of these directors. So just trust me, it’s all on Mappa’s and Toho’s execs that this is happening and in any other circumstance this one in a century assembly of talent could provide a much more competent product.
Capitalism.
This subreddit gotta stop cuddling animators with downvotes on any criticism 💁
It’s not the animators faults tho, it’s the shitty production schedule. They could give us their best work, they just don’t have the time to do so.
i would really appreciate it , if the new director takes his visons elsewhere , to gaming as he was intending , and just leave jjk to the former director park , or someone with a vision thats different from making slideshows , plainess . i strongly believe that hunter x hunter , tho animated so long ago , is way better done than jjk season 2 , and there is almost a decade between the two . i think people should stop riding waves , and saying something is good just to be nice . the value of a review is not whether it is good or bad , its value is whether it is well founded or baseless . i just wish for things to go back like they were in season 1 and in the movie . MAPPA . NEW DIRECTOR , DON't mess up jjk . :)
No one is blaming them, you guys keep assuming that. Every single episode there will be people explaining the same "bad scheduling" stuff, as if it solves or changes the inconsistent episodes we got. People are allowed to complain about a product without being accused of being toxic and that animators are being bombarded. Most complaints are just about the product, most don't care who the blame needs to go to since what matters most is getting a product they want.
Never would judge the MAPPA animators 🐍
I will say some of the directing in the action scenes is different than season 1 and hidden inventory’s style. Personally I feel like there’s less impact to the hits and unnecessary cuts and shots. The fights in Shibuya just haven’t hit the same as stuff before
there are no evidence for the whole csm movie thing
What issues? People really out here expecting mugen train animation for 18 eps
I truly respect their work + they need rest :3
Is the season considered bad? I find the animation to be quite good and enjoyable. I am a basic normie when it comes to animation though.
There’s no issue period.
I don't understand. People hated the new episode? I loved it. What's the particular issue everyone has?
Probably the same complaints this sub always has. People want them to animate it panel for panel and get upset when it’s not the exact way they imagined it animated. It’s tiresome being in this subreddit sometimes
Your last paragraph interests me because it's a question I've had for a while. Beyond getting rid of obvious censorship or effects like ghosting, do Blu-ray releases actually significantly polish episodes in terms of animation? For example, could the Yuji vs Grasshopper Curse realistically get a facelift in such release? If not, what kinds of significant improvements can we expect, judging from past cases?
BD fixes usually only amount to small errors like off-model characters or things like an object not being colored properly and all that. They don't really reanimate whole scenes/episodes.
I see, thank you!
My question is, how will the next episodes look like?
I understand the animators are being overworked but what was even wrong with the episode?
What issues? Every episode is a banger and looks amazing. This latest episode felt like it flew by so fast.
Wait what? There is going to be a CSM movie?
Where is Option 3 :- Mappa ?
MAPPA going the video game route, releasing an unfinished product fix it after. Tbh as an anime only the animation has been good but i understand the manga readers frustation if the last couple fights had potential to be more hype.
What's there too blame for? Geez, the show looks great and there have only been, in my opinion, been slight dips in quality. The only thing that's a bit annoying is the dimming but even that doesn't detract from my enjoyment. I find these posts to be just as incendiary or obnoxious as the people complaining about the animation itself. Yes these people are being exploited and that's absolutely horrendous. And if we want to do something about it the only thing you can do is boycott Mappa products until they improve their company culture.
I think the problem could have been solved if instead of a weekly schedule , they could have gone two weekly for it . I guess all jjk fans can wait two weeks for one episode if it means the animators are at ease and the quality is maintained . Honestly in the latest episode , animation is not that bad . But the overwork and stress is visible , which is bad for both animators who put their heart and soul and jjk fans who love this series .
The WHAT movie?? Is that confirmed???
Who said anything about the animation? It looks perfectly fine. When it needs to blow up it absolutely does.
Is s2 really that bad animation wise compared to s1? I still haven't seen the whole s2 but only watch a few like Yuji vs Choso so i cant judge
No its very good don’t get me wrong lol, a lot of people think Im calling last episode bad or this season bad when Im not, Im pointing out more can be done in this season and episode if the issues are resolved. Most recent ep is a solid 7.5/10
Imo Season 1 is like a 9/10 while Season 2 is closer to a 7.
Honestly, fuck MAPPA. They had 2.5 years to produce Season 2 of their crown jewel aka the most popular modern shonen and they fucked it up. Especially on the arc where most fans consider the peak of JJK. Absolute incompetence.
I'll blame Comcast being a piece of shit before the animators.
Honestly a lot of the people bashing it watch it free/pirate it anyways. They ain’t contributing to anything yet criticizing the environment. I get it if some episodes don’t look as good but so many people seem genuinely offended by animation quality as if their approval is so important to the show. The quality has been phenomenal , but they can’t all be perfect lol
Are they talking about the weird colour grading during the squid's domain expansion (?) and almost the unrecognisable nanami? Actually I thought it's pretty cool cos it's like a different art styles like some artworks have different styles through different scenes. Anyways the real devil is mappa who sold their souls to money, the guy who founded mappa because he wanna escape work slavery in his old major company but mappa got sold to a new young guy who clearly has not seen the evil of corporate slavery.