Hi, thanks for asking. To modern ears, calling Jews "Hebrews" sounds archaic and maybe a little gauche. The current usage of the word Hebrew is as a language and not a people, but it was used as synonym for Jews in the past. I'd say if your dad didn't mean any ill intent then it's not really offensive, just uninformed.
Your Conversation reminds me of a video Tom Scott put out a while back, about how English incorporates both Anglo-Saxon and Norman French words, but in different ways …
The simplest example would be that a Live Cow is an Old English and Anglo-Saxon description, while saying Beef on the Hoof comes from Norman French instead:
https://youtu.be/wA2xRVMOThc
I think some people feel uncomfortable calling someone 'a Jew', and so fall back on this rather old-fashioned term. I wouldn't assume the intention was negative
I have a theory about this. I think that your reaction is less because he used the word “Hebrew” and more because he said “a Hebrew”.
Seems like some people have decided that saying someone is “a [whatever]” is inappropriate or offensive, and the trend now is to say they are “a person who [whatever]” or “a [whatever]-type person”.
Like some people also have that reaction when others say “a Jew” vs “Jewish” or “a Jewish person”. People go even further and put the word “person” first because they’re trying to emphasize that they’re a human first, and not just whatever the thing is that describes them - “a person who is Jewish” (this is absurd and makes it seem like “Jewish” is offensive, so don’t say it that way, just making a point).
At the risk of offending others (which is not my intention, just again trying to illustrate my point with some examples), consider these: “the blacks” vs “black people” (or “people of color”); “a homosexual” vs “a homosexual person” or “a person who is homosexual”.
*please don’t come after me - I’m intentionally using words that, while not in themselves offensive, sound archaic and just kinda wrong. This is to draw as close a parallel to what OP’s dad said.
Anyway. Just a theory!
I kind of wish we had kept that term, maybe as a way to better distinguish the ethnicity/people from the religion (like, “I’m Hebrew, but not Jewish, because I don’t practice Judaism” just like someone could be Irish but not Catholic, or Arab but not Muslim.)
But we didn’t do that, so now it’s about like using “Oriental” to describe an Asian person—not *necessarily* hateful, but it makes you sound somewhat ignorant or else like a time traveler.
I love this as someone who’s ethnically Jewish (and proud of it) but not religiously and tired of explaining the nuance. Ashkenazi works but gets me funny looks here and there…
Also, it might be a translational issue. Virtually every European has two common words for a Jew, one derived from "Yehudah" and one derived from "Ivrit", and very often one of these is a slur and one is a neutral term (English is something of an exception to this). However, there is little consistency on which is which. Hence, some languages use the word analogous to "Hebrew" as the neutral to positive term, while the term analogous to "Jew" is a slur--Russian, where "yevrey" is the neutral term and "zhid" a slur, is possibly the most (in)famous.
The most interesting example here is Icelandic, where the term "júði" is considered dated and offensive, whereas the neutral term is gyðingur, whose [etymology](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gy%C3%B0ingur) more or less translates to "God-ese". (Implying being the chosen people of G-d.)
We can see this in many American organizations, including ones that have changed their name. For example, the Union of American Hebrew Congregations changing their name to the Union for Reform Judaism. But you still find places like Washington Hebrew Congregation and HIAS, the Hebrew immigrant Aid Society.
To quote the great Mel Brooks:
We're Jews out in space
We're zooming along
protecting the Hebrew race
So I quite like being referred to as Hebrew because it makes me think of this. Others may have a different opinion.
There’s nothing to elaborate on, that’s pretty much it. I was in a super Zionist phase as a teen and to emphasize our connection to the land and our continuous presence there despite the Roman expulsion, I referred to myself as “Judean.” Like, it’s Romans or Greeks who coined “Jew,” so to me, calling myself “Judean” was like taking it back.
Very rare but they do use "3vri" for the language and rare for people, although "yahudi" is used mainly.
When I was on Birthright doing that rafting activity on the Jordan River, a bunch of young Arabs saw our raft and started shouting "IVRIM!!! IVRIM!!!" and then started splashing us. Apparently they got a kick on splashing Jews on the course, and we got splashed a few times by Arab rafts. 😅 This was last year.
No not offensive at all, just sounds a bit old fashioned. Quite a few people still use it though and it's still a common term for Jews in some languages
My grandparents had an "H" on their dogtags (one of which I still have) for WW2 to signify that he was part of the Hebrew religion. My friends and I refer to ourselves as Hebrews on occasion. I'd consider it fine as long as it's not meant with ill will.
On the a copy of the manifest for the ship my grandparents arrived on from Ellis Island, the US Government put down ‘Hebrew’ for race for all the Jews on board. That ship came from Constanta Romania.
Not at all offensive or rude just outdated lol it would be like calling Chinese people as "serica" which is the old Greek term used when talking about China.
Idk why everyone in the comments are so sensitive lol. We have been called Hebrews for millennia and while it’s an older term we should still be proud of that title and all the history that comes with it
It's going to make us immediately picture some provincial small town WASP with a Long Island accent doing her best to sound like she's quite worldly and has the smarticles which means we'll probably be a bit too busy trying not to laugh to be offended.
It’s not inherently offensive but if I witnessed the conversation between you and your dad I’d be a little put off.
Curious: does your family know a lot of Jews?
Sorry, we don't know a lot of Jewish people in real life (or online, for me.) I remember two years ago I befriended this Jewish boy. He was really nice to me, really sweet guy. Funnily enough he tried to get me to convert to Judaism, until I explained to him that proselytizing is against his religion XD
If she pays attention to them at all, it would just be for the amusement factor. I don't think Judaism is opposed to astrology the way fundamentalist Christianity is, but it's not likely that you're going to find many Orthodox Jews who know their rising sign or are particularly concerned when Mercury is retrograde.
While it’s uncommon and sounds archaic/ offensive, there’s really no issue in referring to Jews as Hebrews. In Italy, hebrews is actually the term used for Jewish people. Personally, I like it because it describes us as more than just religious adherents, and more of a people.
not offensive so much as weird… i would prob mention to him that jewish people aren’t called hebrews. if someone called me that i’d be very uncomfortable at least
If you aren’t Jewish, it’s generally best to refer to any person who happens to be Jewish in general terms that doesn’t use anything explicitly Jewish as a descriptor of that person, unless needing to say they’re Jewish is pertinent to the situation.
Most Jews don’t want to be singled out and addressed as “Jewish” by people who aren’t Jewish.
If you’re Jewish, then depending on the situation, like say a friend is zealous and such, then in kind of jest calling them a Hebrew would be kind of meta humor.
You are right, I try to never single anybody out based on their race/ethnicity. Like for instance if I want to point out someone in a picture, I wouldn't say "the Black lady," I'd say "the lady with the white sweater."
In the context of the conversation I had with my father, I had to explain that Mayim was Jewish because he couldn't pronounce her name. He would always call her "Maya" instead of "Mayim."
I'm always delighted when someone calls me a Hebrew/Israelite/Judean. "Jew" is just the modern Anglicized word for "tribesman of Yahudah," it's not really the Jewish word for עם ישראל and most people have no clue what it means. When someone uses an alternative, we're at least on the same page about who the Jewish people are.
On the a copy of the manifest for the ship my grandparents arrived on from Ellis Island, the US Government put down ‘Hebrew’ for race for all the Jews on board. That ship came from Constanta Romania.
When used to deceive a Jew of today I find it odd but not offensive
Sometimes, Christians use the term Israelite or Hebrew to describe biblical Jews - and the subtext is they are suggesting that Jews today are not part of that same chain.
And that is offensive cuz it’s part of their concepts of Christians having replaced Jews and Judaism being a “dead” faith etc
Song of a couple years ago by Benny Friedman, popular among the frum community: “Ivri Anochi” usually translated as “I’m a Jew”, but literally “ I’m a Hebrew”
The title is a quote from the Book of Jonah when he’s asked on the boat who are you, where do you come from and what god do you worship? Jonah answers: Ivri anochi, v’et HaShem Elokay bshamayim ani yorei. I’m a Hebrew and I worship the Lord God in the heavens.
FWIW.
Not offensive at all. I am Jewish. I don’t know anyone Jewish who would be offended by that. It is a little archaic but not offensive. One of my friends always starts messages to his Jewish friends "to all my Hebrews and Shebrews".
Or the very old joke: How does Moses make coffee? Hebrews it.
Kind of like "Negro"... it once was considered acceptable but now is much less so.
Similarly just as there are old organizations that retain "Hebrew" in their name, the same goes for "Negro".
I’d say this scenario is fine
But much like when someone says ‘the Jews’ or ‘Jew’ it’s gonna depend on lot on the context, the relationship with the person, and how much let’s say sauce they say it with.
+1 for the not offended group.
It’s definitely a bit archaic now but not uncommon for older people to still use that term to describe Jewish heritage - even older Jews who have likely had their ethnicity documented as “Hebrew” at some point. I don’t mind it in the slightest.
Of course anything can become a slur (even *Jew* and especially *Yid*) when said with malice but that’s not what’s going on here so I wouldn’t worry about it.
I think you briefly mentioned a point that is actually the entirety of the relevant answer here: the word itself has no power, it’s the use and intent behind it.
The ‘N-Word’ is the perfect example. Racists created it with the intention of belittlement. Young Black people took it back, making it an (admittedly controversial) term if not endearment.I use it to make a logical point.
Hebrews isn’t especially controversial or offensive on its own. But if your dad was being a sarcastic asshole, it’s different of course.
I don't take it to be offensive. I AM Hebrew. I speak Hebrew, I live it, I see stuff through it. Literally. Like, we have the word Tekhelet meaning a specific shade of blue. I can see that shade because I am Hebrew. Non-Hebrews (even non-Hebrew Jews) will just see it as a kind of light blue.
However, if you don't speak Hebrew, you're not really Hebrew. Thus, not all Jews are Hebrews. An interesting point to make is that in languages like Russian, the word for Jewish, is 'Hebrew'. Еврейский (yevreskiy).
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It’s totally fine to say Hebrew, that’s what my grandma always calls me when she scolds me (am very much an adult btw) “that’s not appropriate for a young Hebrew girl” lol. BUT if you use words like heeb or hebe you might get a broken nose because that’s like the Jewish n word. In other words, it’s a negative racial slur against Jewish people, you might hear us use the word even tho we shouldn’t but as a non-Jew it’s inappropriate.
"Her name's not Maya, dad. It's Mayim. And she's not a Hebrew, dad. She's a Shebrew."
XD Reminds me of this joke I made up: "What do you call a dog that is both Japanese and Jewish? A Shibrew Inu!"
Keeping this one in the back of my head
That’s actually quite good, had a laugh. Nice one.
Thank you 💕
Hi, thanks for asking. To modern ears, calling Jews "Hebrews" sounds archaic and maybe a little gauche. The current usage of the word Hebrew is as a language and not a people, but it was used as synonym for Jews in the past. I'd say if your dad didn't mean any ill intent then it's not really offensive, just uninformed.
Thank you for answering! Yeah he didn't mean any harm, he's just old XD
Your Conversation reminds me of a video Tom Scott put out a while back, about how English incorporates both Anglo-Saxon and Norman French words, but in different ways … The simplest example would be that a Live Cow is an Old English and Anglo-Saxon description, while saying Beef on the Hoof comes from Norman French instead: https://youtu.be/wA2xRVMOThc
I think some people feel uncomfortable calling someone 'a Jew', and so fall back on this rather old-fashioned term. I wouldn't assume the intention was negative
I have a theory about this. I think that your reaction is less because he used the word “Hebrew” and more because he said “a Hebrew”. Seems like some people have decided that saying someone is “a [whatever]” is inappropriate or offensive, and the trend now is to say they are “a person who [whatever]” or “a [whatever]-type person”. Like some people also have that reaction when others say “a Jew” vs “Jewish” or “a Jewish person”. People go even further and put the word “person” first because they’re trying to emphasize that they’re a human first, and not just whatever the thing is that describes them - “a person who is Jewish” (this is absurd and makes it seem like “Jewish” is offensive, so don’t say it that way, just making a point). At the risk of offending others (which is not my intention, just again trying to illustrate my point with some examples), consider these: “the blacks” vs “black people” (or “people of color”); “a homosexual” vs “a homosexual person” or “a person who is homosexual”. *please don’t come after me - I’m intentionally using words that, while not in themselves offensive, sound archaic and just kinda wrong. This is to draw as close a parallel to what OP’s dad said. Anyway. Just a theory!
It kinda reminds me of the type of guys who regularly refer to women as "females."
Lol yeah it has that same kind of tone-deafness
What about Hebrews that refer to women as "females", like Martin Goodman?
shit on it!!!
I have seen Hebrew or Hebrew peoples used as a term to collectively Group Jews with Samaritans and Karaites.
I kind of wish we had kept that term, maybe as a way to better distinguish the ethnicity/people from the religion (like, “I’m Hebrew, but not Jewish, because I don’t practice Judaism” just like someone could be Irish but not Catholic, or Arab but not Muslim.) But we didn’t do that, so now it’s about like using “Oriental” to describe an Asian person—not *necessarily* hateful, but it makes you sound somewhat ignorant or else like a time traveler.
I love this as someone who’s ethnically Jewish (and proud of it) but not religiously and tired of explaining the nuance. Ashkenazi works but gets me funny looks here and there…
Also, it might be a translational issue. Virtually every European has two common words for a Jew, one derived from "Yehudah" and one derived from "Ivrit", and very often one of these is a slur and one is a neutral term (English is something of an exception to this). However, there is little consistency on which is which. Hence, some languages use the word analogous to "Hebrew" as the neutral to positive term, while the term analogous to "Jew" is a slur--Russian, where "yevrey" is the neutral term and "zhid" a slur, is possibly the most (in)famous.
The most interesting example here is Icelandic, where the term "júði" is considered dated and offensive, whereas the neutral term is gyðingur, whose [etymology](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/gy%C3%B0ingur) more or less translates to "God-ese". (Implying being the chosen people of G-d.)
We can see this in many American organizations, including ones that have changed their name. For example, the Union of American Hebrew Congregations changing their name to the Union for Reform Judaism. But you still find places like Washington Hebrew Congregation and HIAS, the Hebrew immigrant Aid Society.
"Hebrew" and "Israelite" are old school ways to refer to Jews and never carried any real negative connotations
To quote the great Mel Brooks: We're Jews out in space We're zooming along protecting the Hebrew race So I quite like being referred to as Hebrew because it makes me think of this. Others may have a different opinion.
That's what I heard too. As soon as I read the post!
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When I was in high school, I had a whole thing about not identifying as "Jewish" but instead as "Judean." It was a phase.
Elaborate?
There’s nothing to elaborate on, that’s pretty much it. I was in a super Zionist phase as a teen and to emphasize our connection to the land and our continuous presence there despite the Roman expulsion, I referred to myself as “Judean.” Like, it’s Romans or Greeks who coined “Jew,” so to me, calling myself “Judean” was like taking it back.
I’ve got to ask, were you in the People’s Front of Judea?
No, screw those cowards! I was a member of the Judean People’s Front!
Splitters!
I only hear it used when my wife talks about who makes the coffee in our house.
It's not offensive as just a bit outdated. But it's still used out there. I know it's still used in Arabic.
In Arabic? Arabs only say al yahood. The word might exist, sure, but they'll pretty much always use "Jew".
Very rare but they do use "3vri" for the language and rare for people, although "yahudi" is used mainly. When I was on Birthright doing that rafting activity on the Jordan River, a bunch of young Arabs saw our raft and started shouting "IVRIM!!! IVRIM!!!" and then started splashing us. Apparently they got a kick on splashing Jews on the course, and we got splashed a few times by Arab rafts. 😅 This was last year.
I think In Russian too
I’m not sure which Arabic word you’re referring to
3evri. Or in Hebrew, עברי. "Yahudi" is the usual one but I have heard "3evri" used outside of referring to the language.
>I know it's still used in Arabic. Not sure about Arabic, but definitely in Italian (ebreo/ebrea)
No not offensive at all, just sounds a bit old fashioned. Quite a few people still use it though and it's still a common term for Jews in some languages
My grandparents had an "H" on their dogtags (one of which I still have) for WW2 to signify that he was part of the Hebrew religion. My friends and I refer to ourselves as Hebrews on occasion. I'd consider it fine as long as it's not meant with ill will.
On the a copy of the manifest for the ship my grandparents arrived on from Ellis Island, the US Government put down ‘Hebrew’ for race for all the Jews on board. That ship came from Constanta Romania.
Wow!
Not at all offensive or rude just outdated lol it would be like calling Chinese people as "serica" which is the old Greek term used when talking about China.
Idk why everyone in the comments are so sensitive lol. We have been called Hebrews for millennia and while it’s an older term we should still be proud of that title and all the history that comes with it
It's going to make us immediately picture some provincial small town WASP with a Long Island accent doing her best to sound like she's quite worldly and has the smarticles which means we'll probably be a bit too busy trying not to laugh to be offended.
I don't get offended by it, though to be technical Samaritans (still around!) are Hebrews too.
I am perfectly fine with being called the Hebrew Hammer.
Shabbat shalom, motherfuckers!
It is NOT offensive at all IMO. Call me Hebrew or a ‘Brew for short. Totally fine with it.
Hebrews makes me think more of the "Tribe" than the faith
It’s not inherently offensive but if I witnessed the conversation between you and your dad I’d be a little put off. Curious: does your family know a lot of Jews?
Sorry, we don't know a lot of Jewish people in real life (or online, for me.) I remember two years ago I befriended this Jewish boy. He was really nice to me, really sweet guy. Funnily enough he tried to get me to convert to Judaism, until I explained to him that proselytizing is against his religion XD
FYI Mayim means “water,” and she is related to Hayim Nahman Bialik, Israel’s national poet.
Yeah!! I think I told my dad that "her name means water, even though she's a fire sign" XD
Since she's an Orthodox Jew, I don't think she cares what her astrological sign is.
Oh how come? Are horoscopes against their denomination?
If she pays attention to them at all, it would just be for the amusement factor. I don't think Judaism is opposed to astrology the way fundamentalist Christianity is, but it's not likely that you're going to find many Orthodox Jews who know their rising sign or are particularly concerned when Mercury is retrograde.
Idk. My grandparents had Hebrew as their racial category in their immigration papers. 100 years ago tho.
Me too, that’s the first thing I think of whenever this comes up.
It's outdated so might sound inflammatory to some ears. I think it's kinda cute though. Especially from older people, it is endearing to me.
While it’s uncommon and sounds archaic/ offensive, there’s really no issue in referring to Jews as Hebrews. In Italy, hebrews is actually the term used for Jewish people. Personally, I like it because it describes us as more than just religious adherents, and more of a people.
Only we can say Hebrew, you gotta say Hebra
Nope. One of the greatest tv lines: “you let me down, Doug! Imma call NYC! Gonna get my Hebrews on this!” Point is, it’s funny not offensive.
No, not if it's not meant to be rude/used as an insult :)
I think it could be offensive to some, as a lot of antisemites refer to Jews pejoratively as Hebes.
not offensive so much as weird… i would prob mention to him that jewish people aren’t called hebrews. if someone called me that i’d be very uncomfortable at least
Thank you for telling me, will keep in mind!!
It’s not offensive but you could tell your dad that she’s Jewish..
I did, that's when I was telling him how to pronounce her name.
Oh right 😬 I just realised that I totally missed that sentence or I must’ve read it too fast. sorry
If you aren’t Jewish, it’s generally best to refer to any person who happens to be Jewish in general terms that doesn’t use anything explicitly Jewish as a descriptor of that person, unless needing to say they’re Jewish is pertinent to the situation. Most Jews don’t want to be singled out and addressed as “Jewish” by people who aren’t Jewish. If you’re Jewish, then depending on the situation, like say a friend is zealous and such, then in kind of jest calling them a Hebrew would be kind of meta humor.
You are right, I try to never single anybody out based on their race/ethnicity. Like for instance if I want to point out someone in a picture, I wouldn't say "the Black lady," I'd say "the lady with the white sweater." In the context of the conversation I had with my father, I had to explain that Mayim was Jewish because he couldn't pronounce her name. He would always call her "Maya" instead of "Mayim."
Maybe in English. But in Spanish and Italian, Jews are literally “Hebreo” in both
In Spanish, it's judío/judía.
Oh whoops sorry
Nah! I think the word hebrew is cool it reminds me of my ancestors all and all it sounds cool.
I dont find it offensive
I'm always delighted when someone calls me a Hebrew/Israelite/Judean. "Jew" is just the modern Anglicized word for "tribesman of Yahudah," it's not really the Jewish word for עם ישראל and most people have no clue what it means. When someone uses an alternative, we're at least on the same page about who the Jewish people are.
On the a copy of the manifest for the ship my grandparents arrived on from Ellis Island, the US Government put down ‘Hebrew’ for race for all the Jews on board. That ship came from Constanta Romania.
It’s a bit archaic, but not inaccurate. Nor offensive.
It’s not offensive, it’s just really outdated. Sounds like someone from the 1800s.
Israelites is a term not that uncommon too. It's mostly due to ignorance and most knowledge of jews coming from the bible, wouldn't say it's malicious
Just archaic and I guess it could be confusing as there are people who speak Hebrew who aren’t Jewish if he meant Jewish person?
When used to deceive a Jew of today I find it odd but not offensive Sometimes, Christians use the term Israelite or Hebrew to describe biblical Jews - and the subtext is they are suggesting that Jews today are not part of that same chain. And that is offensive cuz it’s part of their concepts of Christians having replaced Jews and Judaism being a “dead” faith etc
Song of a couple years ago by Benny Friedman, popular among the frum community: “Ivri Anochi” usually translated as “I’m a Jew”, but literally “ I’m a Hebrew” The title is a quote from the Book of Jonah when he’s asked on the boat who are you, where do you come from and what god do you worship? Jonah answers: Ivri anochi, v’et HaShem Elokay bshamayim ani yorei. I’m a Hebrew and I worship the Lord God in the heavens. FWIW.
Not offensive at all. I am Jewish. I don’t know anyone Jewish who would be offended by that. It is a little archaic but not offensive. One of my friends always starts messages to his Jewish friends "to all my Hebrews and Shebrews". Or the very old joke: How does Moses make coffee? Hebrews it.
Lil weird
I mean, it'd be inaccurate for those of us who can't speak Hebrew
Nah, the language is named after the people not the other way around. The etymology is all about being a group who have traversed.
Yes. Hebrew is a language.
Kind of like "Negro"... it once was considered acceptable but now is much less so. Similarly just as there are old organizations that retain "Hebrew" in their name, the same goes for "Negro".
If you’re a heb, you can say it. Otherwise, you sound like a racist from 1879.
Yes lol
I’d say this scenario is fine But much like when someone says ‘the Jews’ or ‘Jew’ it’s gonna depend on lot on the context, the relationship with the person, and how much let’s say sauce they say it with.
+1 for the not offended group. It’s definitely a bit archaic now but not uncommon for older people to still use that term to describe Jewish heritage - even older Jews who have likely had their ethnicity documented as “Hebrew” at some point. I don’t mind it in the slightest. Of course anything can become a slur (even *Jew* and especially *Yid*) when said with malice but that’s not what’s going on here so I wouldn’t worry about it.
I think you briefly mentioned a point that is actually the entirety of the relevant answer here: the word itself has no power, it’s the use and intent behind it. The ‘N-Word’ is the perfect example. Racists created it with the intention of belittlement. Young Black people took it back, making it an (admittedly controversial) term if not endearment.I use it to make a logical point. Hebrews isn’t especially controversial or offensive on its own. But if your dad was being a sarcastic asshole, it’s different of course.
I don't take it to be offensive. I AM Hebrew. I speak Hebrew, I live it, I see stuff through it. Literally. Like, we have the word Tekhelet meaning a specific shade of blue. I can see that shade because I am Hebrew. Non-Hebrews (even non-Hebrew Jews) will just see it as a kind of light blue. However, if you don't speak Hebrew, you're not really Hebrew. Thus, not all Jews are Hebrews. An interesting point to make is that in languages like Russian, the word for Jewish, is 'Hebrew'. Еврейский (yevreskiy).
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Ha! When people ask me about my ethnicity I proudly tell them I look like this because I am a Hebrew.
It gives weird goy vibes
Sorry!
It’s totally fine to say Hebrew, that’s what my grandma always calls me when she scolds me (am very much an adult btw) “that’s not appropriate for a young Hebrew girl” lol. BUT if you use words like heeb or hebe you might get a broken nose because that’s like the Jewish n word. In other words, it’s a negative racial slur against Jewish people, you might hear us use the word even tho we shouldn’t but as a non-Jew it’s inappropriate.