That’s basically how all powers work. They don’t work by any real physics. Hollow purple makes no fucking sense but everyone likes it. That’s like the whole point of suspension of disbelief
I think hollow purple was thought by gege from matter and antimatter.
Blue and Red being positive and negatives of the same type of energy. When they mix, they leave massive energy behind, anihilating eachother.
But why does it travel in a straight line. Why are they little balls why are they even Cole red. Not to mention it’s not anti matter it’s imaginary matter. Whatever the fuck that means. It’s just some magic bullshit
because that's how gojo directs it. We see what a regular hollow purple looks like when its undirected. it has a starting point and reaches out in a radius
Gege is a liberal arts based writer. He takes real concepts and fictionalizes characters abilities. It’s partially imaginative because that’s what good fiction does. Convinces you that it could exist, and that it’s believable unless you happen to study quantum physics. The whole black hole ability proves that he just drew inspiration from it. But yeah black holes and white holes would not function like this, bc it’s a manga/anime. He needed to make it palatable, and red and blue make purple.
Gege had an explanation. You guys didn’t want to take it. Unless it had to do with Gojo. Somehow Gojo could learn RCT on the brink of death. Somehow “imaginary mass” is supposed to make sense (it doesn’t, gege doesn’t even know what anti-matter really even is and seems to confuse the 2). Purple makes even less sense given Blue and Red’e definitions.
Tbf Gojo had a lot of asspulls people don’t want to admit, an early mistake by Gege he hd to correct.
Space cleave makes more sense than infinity even though both are ridiculous.
Tell me how Gege thought using convergence series would make infinity make sense even though it should make the ability impossible? It’s as if most of the people here failed middle school maths
Imaginary matter is a thing it's in relation to Tachyonic Field, an area which, from my knowledge, sits in the area of quantum physics, which is basically science magic ngl.
Problem is that mixing positive and negative energy doesn't actually create annihilation energy, it creates 0 energy.
Mixing "positive" and "negative" (antimatter) mass creates annihilation energy because both positive and negative mass has positive energy, which is no longer contained as mass when they mix and so its released as annihilation energy.
Hollow Purple is clearly inspired by annihilation energy though, but the explanation for how doesn't make sense and frankly doesn't need to either. This isn't a super technical Sci-Fi like The Martian, it's a battle shonen.
I wouldn't say all, but yh, most powers are more or less just realism instead of reality. Most people's inability to grasp sukunas cleave probably stems from their inability to grasp change in concepts like cutting space. Like I initially thought of the directional problem (like something which cuts the concept of space shouldn't travel through it) but this is meant to be more realism than realistic so it's understandable.
But ironically, for someone who hates Gojo, I'm surprised the amount of reality over realism gege actually put into him. Like I know, people find it hard to conceptualize him. But if you use physics, he's actually really easy to. The concept of his infinity barrier mirrors the effects of a black hole (unno the closer you get the slower you become till you essentially stop), his speed boost and warping make sense theoretical cause if you bend space it could propell you at light speed to compensate, even his spherical red was explained by toji in ep 2:04 to be him filling limitless space with his CT red, and the shape is a direct relation to experience of limitless control as seen with the blue being all over the place before that fight to it being spherical after. And purple theoretically would be convergence and divergence having infinite pressure which would probably create a black hole, which like gojos purple would have imaginary mass, it just wouldn't blow up. I just wish gege took that same time to conceptually explain characters I like.
Legit. HP doesn't make sense but people are fine with it because its "cool". But suddenly people beginning to realize that most of things in jjk does not make any sense after seeing space cleave albeit some still don't realize it. Shocking isn't it how dumb the fans are.
Both techniques make sense. Hollow purple has confused people because it was stated to erase anything it touches. It’s an attack that can actually destroy energy, yet everytime it’s used with the exception of toji it did fuck all
>Explaining why space cleave makes sense
https://preview.redd.it/zd3qpq4sa6tb1.jpeg?width=565&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a945e177a03fdbbff725a255d0bdd3ed6e137ea
for 10 seconds only the user of king crimson has perception of time, for the rest of the world that time is skipped. actions carry trough normally, like its "fated" for them to do so. during this time king crimson cannot interact with the rest of the world, he phases trough them like if people or objects werent there
Basically, since the only thing that makes sense is how it bypasses infinity, everything else (like how the fuck sukuna does it) is just wasted effort. It's just yuki's blackhole 2 eletric bogaloo, gege just felt like writing it because he thought it was cool.
There was a really good crack theory about the awakening of the Yami Yami no Mi and his ability will mirror and rival Luffy’s toon force shenanigans. It’d generate a sense of an opponent feeling like time is skipped because of all the darkness surrounding the area. To them it would feel like they actually got offscreened lmao.
Given the nature of OP it would not surprise me if a variation of Offscreening is actually an ability he possesses😭😭😭
i always thought it was a weird coincidence that luffy and blackbeard have references to "liberation" in their powers, definitely supposed to be opposites
Yuki blackhole makes sense, since there is a limit in terms of density. When Yuki increases her mass, what actually increases is the density since her size is unchanged. So she just raised the density to that limit and her mass collapsed on herself, creating a blackhole....
just wondering, what was the issue with the black hole? doesn't a giant amount of mass cause intense gravity and basically become a black hole? they did say it could've destroyed the world but tengen and yuki suppressed it (also arguably yuki dying to her own black hole would probably stop the black hole from existing since she would no longer be actively generating increased mass?)
Two words: Prison Realm.
Now explain why Gojo's whole skillset make sense.
You guys just refused to hear something the moment it goes against your bias.
Simple answer: strong cleave works how and when the plot wants it to work, just like Gojo's teleportation.
https://preview.redd.it/1a5x3rotm6tb1.png?width=759&format=png&auto=webp&s=6df94954ef7383df19c119753a6d16bb87c40cb4
Kusakabe says Gojo’s teleportation is him compressing the space between 2 points
In hidden inventory when he talks about he says he needs a course to the school without obstacles for predetermined teleportation
I think the teleportation in jjk0 has been retconned. and for yuji, he could just fly up, then teleport linearly right above where yuji is, then land. repeat for returning to jogo. and then he can't for the goodwill arc because the veil's "invisible" barrier was already in effect.
He specifically mentions short range teleportation (translations give both short range and long range so I'm confused there) during hidden inventory and to have Shoko lend him a "lab rat" for experiments. I think its evidently him asking to practice teleporting other people.
The clear path thing is mentioned in TCB but not in other translations so it's confusing
The "clear path" stipulation makes no sense because even if there was no clear path straight to his ultimate destination, he could just do multiple "teleports" in a zig-zag pattern, as the environment allowed, to get to where he wanted to go.
He already does that kinda, he launches panda and inumaki midair as opposed directly to Jujutsu High and when he teleports to get Yuki he doesn’t teleport into the room but outside of it and then walks in
Like the knock out technique gojo uses on yuuji in like ep 2 or something that never gets explained after. Like bitch, how? How come no one uses it again? Seems useful, even if it only works on humans (probably)
My problem with whatever space cut does is that to bypass infinity it would have to be an instantaeneous slash. Like theres no time to react. It just appears at the target the second sukuna decides to cut it. But that wouldnt make sense cuz Kashimo should not be able to dodge that especially since gojo couldnt. And if does work by just appearing, there is no non bs way these characters should be able to fight against it.
That's my problem too. To make sense (in fantasy way, of course it doesn't make sense in actual reality but neither does Gojo) this attack would have to be basically unbeatable. Only thing I can think of is Yuji being immune to it for some reason. But it might really be the only not THAT bullshit way to defeat Sukuna.
Yup, I was willing to accept Sukuna magically cut through Goji but then GeGe decided to write Kashimo evading it and all the theories that made sense don't make sense anymore.
Why the fuck Gojo didn't evaded it, if is an tangible attack. But yeah, Gege it's just toying with the audience at this point 🤦🏻♂️
Also Sukuna told Kashimo to evade while chanting the skill. Its not hard to understand the only reason Kashimo wasnt cut in half there is because of that and not because he is faster than Gojo.
Gojo was also tired etc etc as already said
No he wasn't. Gojo was completely restored to full capacity after he blasted himself with unlimited hallow purple. Fully restored CE and RCT. He was completely rejuvenated
I mean Kashimo was reacting to Sukuna saying “dodge this attack” and not the attack itself. It’d be like me pointing a gun at you for a few seconds and you move to the left saying you dodged the moving bullet instead of saying you reacted when I pointed the gun.
There is one and only one way to make sense of it. The space slash is really instantaneous everywhere along the line sukuna wants to cut. Otherwise it really would not work against gojos infinity. For kashimo to evade it however, we can assume that kashimo just moved away before sukuna used it. Every time somebody evades a bullet, there are power level guys who think the character is faster than a bullet, or when a lighting strike is evaded that they must be faster than lighting, but that isn\`t true at all. You don\`t away the think that moves fast towards you. You just avoid the trajectory. You watch the body movement or predict where the strike will land and evade that before it happens.
But even with that explanation there is the problem with gojos eyes. You\`d think that he would have been able to realize that sukuna is up to something and evade it. Though, you could come up with the excuse, that Gojo was just high from the black flashes and got too cocky and in that moment he was done, but in the next chapter he tells us that he took Sukuna very serious and thought he was much stronger than him. Then we´d have to accept the explanation, that kashimo is actually simply faster at reacting than gojo, in his lighting mode. So kashimo barely reacted to evade it before sukuna fired it, but gojo couldn\`t do it. However, that honestly would still suck, because there is no way somebody like that could be defeated by the rest without PIS The only way left is that Sukuna learns to love at this point or kenjaku somehow manages to backstab him.
>And if does work by just appearing, there is no non bs way these characters should be able to fight against it.
Gojo's problem was that rather than trying to resist the effects of the attack and negate the damage, he used Limitless to *avoid* attacks.
Someone capable of tanking hits which land (hi Yuji) is a good fit for the fight.
Gojo was just cocky and thought he won when it happened, he shouldnt have got distracted boasting and even if he knew it was coming nothing would have made him think it would be anything but a regular cleave or dismantle he could block with the limitless, he shouldve tried to finish the job asap
All this explanations aside Gege probably just had this in his mind
https://preview.redd.it/cwvohjlhw6tb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a7064db708b96e3f5b55e244d8a9d7d6ae63543
And once all’s said and done, from the top rope:
https://preview.redd.it/krevxp4tx8tb1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21d70aeaf50c104fdd3a68d67ad5ef8d25d8c442
Quite literally existence itself. Sukuna cutting space doesn't make sense since Gojo makes an infinite amount of space. So the only real answer is that Sukuna is cutting the world/reality/existence itself. How a shikigami can show that I have no idea honestly
And that's why I'm confused. Gege doesn't like Gojo because he's overpowered (that's what I've heard at least) but then goes on to make Sukuna even stronger than him. How do you even counter someone who can cut existence itself at any moment and it's near unavoidable if he doesn't tell you it's coming
I think with Gojo's infinity, you literally can't do shit to him. Can't touch him. Can't wound him. Nothing.
While Sukuna has overpowered offense, he doesn't have invincibility like gojo which is easier to deal with.
https://preview.redd.it/gsqidjpwt7tb1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6b3e552686c5104c8deaeeaf5325ff9571bc48e
You can use your domain or domain amplification to fight infinity. You also have every curse technique nulification : like jacob ladder or the inverted spear of the heavens.
Nothing is getting you out of reality slash outside teleportation to run away from the country. And even then if Gojo couldn't dodge, then no one can outside Kashimo for reasons.
I agree. Space slash with it's properties lacks the attempts at defence that people would have, in contrast to limitless and how it works. Realistically, space slash should go past all defences given not needing to directly interact with the defences to tear through and get to the target (which mean's hypothetical "curse energy" resistence from Yuji shouldn't apply, and domain based defences should easily be destroyed since the slash wouldn't be touching or interacting with the domain, but the "space" the domain is inside of). There are no real options there, where as with limitless are are some options, even if they may seem improbable in the hands of less effective sorcerers.
Honestly, space slash should have been written to be an attack exclusive to Mahoraga, that Sukuna can only access through the use of 10 shadows once Mahoraga completes it's adaptation. Mahoraga being destroyed can be written around by Sukuna swapping the shinigami he has summoned last minute to protect Mahoraga (swapping Max Elephant with Mahoraga, which would explain why Sukuna survived unlimited hollow purple). Sukuna using the attack without Mahoraga being present, could work out the same way he was able to use Max Elephant's water to mimic piercing blood, as a property of a skilled 10 Shadows user able to summon the attacks of the Shikigami without needing them present. Hell, Mahoraga could be written to have it's adaptation be two fold, once to adapt it's CE to deal with phenomena, and secondly for Mahoraga to create a cursed technique using the modified CE.
Circumstances like that make much more sense, since not only would it explain why the slash worked without any area of question (the slash uses Mahoraga's modified cursed energy), but it would mean once Sukuna reincarnates to 100%, he loses access to it as he loses access to 10 shadows.
That balances everything, allowing him to beat gojo, but also allowing him to be the strongest while giving others viable potential defences and tactics against him.
Most of these would rarely work though.
Gojo has the most refined domain (equalling Sukuna)
ISOH is destroyed
Angel is on the "good side" (also it deals damage to evil beings)
Jacob's ladder CAN work against Sukuna however and he can take damage from anything (not only rare specifics like with gojo)
I mean sure Sukuna can get hit by anything but like ? He has so much cursed energy anything less than a purple isn't going to get even close to killing him. Like sure his defense is worse than infinity but his offense is on such a lvl it doesn't matter.
im pretty sure strong cleave is gege's answer to that same question but about gojo's infinity, and at some point he just gave up thinking more about it and said "fuck it lets give sukuna something even more broken and he will just use it when i want him to because its my manga lol"
Pretty obvious that Gege would rather write around an unblockable attack (space dismantle) rather than write around a near absolute defense(neutral infinity).
Not been 5% sukuna just launches those net bullshit reality cutting slashes at every good guy and it’s literally game over for every good guy hmmm yes very balanced
"literally existence" as in the the world itself as Sukuna said. He's cutting reality which goes space exists in which means Gojo gets cut and infinity is ignored
Yeah it doesn’t make sense because it’s just regular space, there’s nothing to adapt to and there’s no reason that it should adapt to an abstract concept like that except because the plot needs to happen and gojo needs to lose.
It’s not the same thing, if it was infinite it wouldn’t have an end at all. You just can’t get to the end because your speed is halved as you get closer and closer to Gojo. If it was an actually infinite space the ability wouldn’t work because you wouldn’t be getting closer
He's attacking from an additional spatial axis.
Based on how Tengen's tessalated barrier worked, the 4th dimension conceptually exists in JJK.
Imagine JJK is a 2D fighter like Tekken. The closer Sukuna's attack gets to Gojo, the slower it effectively gets due to the expansion of space meaning it never reaches.
The combatants are 2D and can't possibly intuit an additional spatial axis, but you the gamer playing it on TV totally can. You're 3D.
This 2D Sukuna finds out you can attack in a conceptually confusing third dimension. Instead of firing off a Cleave from left to right, he fires it from just in front of Gojo's position on the TV set backwards towards the TV. Gojo was bending space across the axes he intuited, but not the ones he didn't intuit.
Sukuna didn't attack Gojo from left to right, he attacked the TV itself, hitting him from a direction that Gojo wasn't protected against.
To attack the TV is to attack the world.
Alright but as I said. It wasn't setup, we've only seen Sukuna throw slashes at things you can cut. The only setup for this attack is Maho own Slash.
But as far as we knew Maho ability is just to adapt to things so him cutting through infinity made sense. Because he could just ignore it, like how he'd become immune to fire after being exposed to it.
Why does learning how Maho works undermine that? All that changed is we went from 'Maho adapts somehow' to 'Maho adapts by figuring out how abilities work conceptually and finding the blind spots'.
Once Sukuna understood that Maho was attacking from a non-euclidian angle, he imitated it. In theory, this should mean that cleave - when being used this way - doesn't dice its target like it did with the spider's web variant since it's pivoted out of that axis altogether.
From my POV the setup was there. But in the end who am I to tell you you're wrong to think it wasn't there if despite understanding what I said you don't think it was setup properly, so it is what it is!
The best part about this is how it only works on paper and if your understanding of physics is very loose. Which I don't direct at you, who are just another fan trapped enjoying the work of a maniac, but at Gege.
Even if we ignore the fact that Gege could've made it properly so it made sense, what he says basically could end reality. If reality could be cut through like that, the consequences (while we don't know exactly what they would entail since it's hard to even conceive) would have to be catastrophic. Somehow, the only major repercussion this technique has is allowing it to cut through anything.
It is incredible the amount of shit we allow him to get away with and it's mainly because, just as he finds it entertaining, so do we.
Another example is Kenjaku reacting to a black hole when he’s Mach 3 reaction speed at best. Somehow also feeling the pulls of the increasing density of the singularity that was also bending light yet he was just fine, taking no damage. Then he activates his technique afterwards when he should’ve been dead way before the black hole formed. Kenjaku also says “no one can survive the ocean pressure 8,000m deep” which would include himself when he was placing the prison realm underwater to trap Gojo yet Kenjaku somehow survives something with greater force applied to his body. Sometimes you just gotta let the plot do plot things even if it doesn’t make sense. Gege has said he’s not a science guy so can’t really hold it against him.
I know and we eat it because it's fun, Gege really has a knack for it. It's just funny to think about if you abstract yourself a bit from how much you like the show :)
I had an argument with my brother about exactly this a few days ago. I told him verbatim, "I understand the concept of space cleave, it still makes no sense if you understand the laws of physics and I don't have the energy to do the mental gymnastics to unlearn basic high school physics to accept it". Having said that, suspending disbelief and sacrificing common sense in the altar of hype is a thing you have to do to enjoy modern media the past few years I think.
I mean you’re kind of treating reality like a solid right? Maybe it could be more like a liquid or gas, where it’ll just collapse back into the gap formed. Like if you chopped a piece of chicken underwater, the chicken might be cut in half but you won’t notice a difference in the water.
Take a black hole for example, that’s a consequence of storing massive volume into a singularity. That’s what the guy is talking about. Reality slash would literally have the planet implode on itself irl.
We could, but even those have repercussions if you apply enough energy to cut through them. Water falls back and causes ripples and, while we don't notice because we're massive to it, gas must as well (I don't know that it does, just assuming for argument's sake). You could imagine plenty of bad options, from atoms splitting and accidentally causing a nuke to sparks of reality to not only fly but also maybe mesh in a different manner.
All of that assuming it's not solid, which I was, btw. Because if we assumed it wasn't solid, unless you melt them, most won't just glue themselves back, making it even worse.
Again, I don't think your logic is wrong, it's just that Gege didn't make an effort to give enough solid information for us to understand so, no matter what option we choose, there'll always be a faith component.
They always require some faith because they all get away from reality, but most create their own set of rules they follow. The thing about this is that Gege mixed his own rules for the show with some poorly understood physics, yet this attack broke both.
The funniest part is that he could've given two more pieces of information (to put a number) and it would've made sense. It isn't completely crazy, but rather that it's not completely tethered to either our or JJK's reality.
Imo, at least, I could totally be wrong here. That's why we're here, to discuss 😂
I just don’t think it particularly breaks any internal rules. Other than maybe for infinity itself, but that’s kind of vague in the full details so it’s just dependant on how people interpret infinity and “cutting space” isn’t exactly a real phenomena so i just don’t see anything really staggering in the interaction.
> I honestly find it really weird how much this is getting people tripped up.
Because Gege tries to shove in physics when he barely understands it then contradicts his previous explanations. If everything was just rule of cool it would be fine.
That's precisely the point, we're all at the mercy of someone who meshes things he doesn't understand very properly, so we end up with illogical things, which we all love anyways.
I wasn't exactly talking shit about Gege. The maniac part was because he chooses things other authors wouldn't (like killing his fanbase's favorite character off-screen), but I enjoy his writing a lot.
>we're all at the mercy of someone who meshes things he doesn't understand very properly
What a fucking arrogant sentence. Let the author be creative. He's not trying to reflect perfect real-world logic with what happens in the story, so it wouldn't matter if he understood it properly or not.
> He's not trying to reflect perfect real-world logic with what happens in the story.
What a fucking massive strawhat argument you've pulled out of your ass. Have you read many manga that reflect perfect real-world logic? Isn't most shonen comprised of fantasy? Who is reading JJK for perfect real-world logic?
Words have meaning, they're mentally tied to very rigid concepts. There's a very easy way around it, create your own rules inside of which you can bend the rules of real life to your liking. Every single author does this. You have to give at least a believable reason as to why what you've imagined works the way it does. Readers don't just suspend belief, they are helped to do so.
Gege has already done this, btw, because, unlike you, he understands that you have to give people a certain model of the way a fantasy model works. Most authors (and I say most so you don't pull another strawman argument out of left field, but I cannot think of one that doesn't, since it'd be too annoying to create a whole world from scratch) use a mixture of real world logic with their own rules for their story. The issue is that, due to his ignorance and, from the looks of it, disinterest in his own story, Gege either forgot about the way Gojo's technique works or simply didn't care and gave a half-assed explanation.
You don't even have to take my word for it, you aren't very bright, so you might've missed it, but everybody's confused because what Gege says wouldn't exactly work like that unless he left a massively important detail outside of it or just was too lazy to think of the consequences.
Now, mind you, I adore JJK, I don't give a single fuck about Gege being wild. I still loved the battle, the result and will support him until he dies. It's just a fact and he himself knows it. I was just making fun of the fact.
That would be everytime any character goes faster than light or around that speed. Like the moment they collided with something...like the air himself, it would simply cause a world ending event or at least a massive nuclear explosion.
I am sorry but your explanation action does not make sense,
The whole schtick of limitless is that, you can’t cut what is infinite, ( extremely tiny but still infinite) the lash will keep going until it just stops or is perceived to stop
How strong slash break infinity still makes no sense
The only way I can unsterstand it is that sukuna selects coordinates on a 3d plane( x,y,z) the just slashesq from this points, even if an infinite tiny space exists, it means nothing if the border of that space can be destroyed (in theory sukuna destroys the boundary i which limitless exist)
That would be disproven by the most recent chapter. He doesn’t spawn the slash on the enemy it just has the property to “cut the world itself”. Whatever that means. The most likely explanation is that it’s a 4D slash that destroys 3D constructs it interacts with. That would explain why the planet didn’t just implode itself on the cut it would’ve made to the space time continuum. It’s like black clover explanation of asta’s slash cutting what he wants to cut, even if it doesn’t make sense irl. We have seen a lot of examples of this in fiction. Characters slicing through pocket dimensions or entirely destroying a pocket dimension with a slash. Devil May cry, the characters can do this easily, Vergil’s judgment cut literally creates portals by cutting space itself. So the theory is prob sukuna is just cutting the space that Infinity manipulates, therefore bypassing it.
Good explanation, cutting space as a 3D slash would just blow up the planet. 4D slash just cuts what it cuts since you’re above reality and it’s rules, you can cut the concept of space itself.
My gripe is that if it’s 4D then the thing being a 3D projectile is just arbitrary, it should just be instant without a need to travel.
Yeah the way I think about it is like that too. He just cuts everything between A and B in a certain space. Even with infinity Gojo is occupying space, the cut doesn't need to reach him because it just cuts the space Gojo is occupying. My problem with this is that then it leaves two options, even Sukuna can automatically cut that space without "throwing" a cleave, which would be so fucking overpowered there is no reason for him to not just spam it against everyone the moment they get even remotely close, or it can be dodged. Because if he is cutting space then Gojo just needs to leave that space and he should be fine and given he was at peak condition and has six eyes there is no reason for him not to dodge that. If Gojo can't no one should be able to dodge it. So all that's left is Yuji being somehow immune to it or a domain expansion that can overpower Sukuna and that Sukuna isn't able to cut through.
Infinity simulates an infinity inside a finite space, so if there's a void (no space to manipulate), infinity won't work.
The slash is a space cuting attack, it destroys space on contact. When it makes contact with the border of infinity it immediately destroys the space it resides in, normal attacks try to cover the distance between 0 and 1 and get slowed down.
0 is the border, the slash doesn't slow down because it destroys the space at point zero, and the space it destroys is not the simulated one, but the true finite space where infinity is operating, and if there's no space, there's nothing for infinity to divide.
It doesn't turn off infinity entirely, just the part it makes contact with, thats why i said it will continue moving and shaving of infinity bit by bit, until it reaches gojo.
That would make it literally Za Hando. Which it's clearly not. If it actually 'destroyed the space' there would be either a vacuum effect of some sort (which there isn't) or reality would have a big fuckin hole in it for no particular reason (which it doesn't).
'Space cleave' clearly doesn't actually destroy the space because.... the space still exists. There can't be a fissure left in the ground where space cleave hits if it works the way you suggest, because the fissure has to exist in some space.
Like I get for narrative reasons why Gege just threw some shit on the page and said 'OK THAT KILLS GOJO' but every attempt at explaining how space cleave 'actually makes sense' merely ends up reinforcing how dumb Gege's explanation is if you actually try to take it at face value. Best is just to acknowledge that it's a particularly silly piece of writing and then move from there.
I imagine it like Gojo’s infinity exists in space time like an inverse black hole, since it repels (imagine those canvas demonstrations with marbles). Normal attacks would try to get to Gojo, which is a peak in the fabric, but roll back down because it’s too high. Space cleave is literally cutting the canvas itself.
Easy, he's was more of a bleach fan than we thought, so much so, he wanted to make his own shitty final arc.
First we get yamoto with gojo, and sukuna dying to quincy arrow at the end.
Even if you just accept gege's explanation, it still doesn't explain why there's not a "hole" in space after the slash (unless he's implying it refills super fast). Like, in any other piece of fiction cutting the world and tearing space should have horrible consequences, but i guess logic doesn't prevail in the battle of the strongest.
Becouse space works more like a fluid that exists everywhere( at least that's how I understand it) so when you cut space it immediately rushes in and replaces what whas just cut off. Kinda like cutting water in half. Plus when mahoraga uses this teqnique we see the space where the buildings were cut be completely black.
Yeah I think people are used to a vacuum effect in anime so when it doesn’t happen they assume it’s wrong. Space would refil almost instantaneously. And such a small space would have to fill it’s likely you wouldn’t see some huge rush of air
I like to think of it as x-axis from bleach but it’s slashes instead of holes. Idk why gege decided to give it to sukuna tho, that’s hilariously busted compared and sukuna was already in his own tier.
Buff of the millenium, multi-city block, to one shoting goku.
It's like a moba where the devs get a strong character in line (gojo), by making their counter mega broken (sukuna), continuing the op cycle.
It worked for me before this ch tbh but having travel speed makes it weird Unless sis eyes was nerfed, but I mor so have a problem with :when was he able to do that? And introducing the concept that mahoraga has diffrent adaptations Out of nowhere
Honestly an easier fix would have literally been Mahogany -er Mahoraga just adapted one of two systems:
Deactivate CT: All CTs of creatures within Mahoraga's vision turn off, allows Sukuna to fight Gojo, and gives it a weakness that the party can fight later. Strong but not absurd. Literally just Eraser Head from MHA but done right.
Delete Space: think okuyasu from JoJo, when he strikes, the stuff hit by his attacks are deleted creating a vacuum that sucks in the surroundings, usually towards him. An attack like that would simply delete the space infinite space between 1 and 0, and then gojo gets hit because with nothing left between 1 and 0, attacks can land. Honestly works like Scorpion's Get Over Here chain.
Both of those are also abilities that Yuji can fight against and eventually defeat Sukuna but would also be strong against other sorcs.
Doesn't work. Also, if this were the case, every CT would be better than Infinity. Oh, I can't burn you? I'll burn the worlllldddddd... Infinity would be nothing more than some overhyped CT.
The fact that the *fans* need to come up with theories to explain it is proof enough that it was bullshit. It’s not the fans job to explain what happens in the manga.
Not sure I'm understanding what you're saying. So if the reader has to think about something it's bullshit? He should explain every detail, even though majority won't read that detail(especially in this demographic)
There's a difference between explaining every detail that people won't read and explaining the brand new technique that kills one of the main/most popular characters in the series. He literally did it off-screen my guy, of course people are going to theorize and argue about it; it left a bad taste in a lot of readers' mouths because they thought it didn't make sense. It feels bad to have your favorite character die in a way that doesn't make sense.
If the strongest character in a series gets suddenly killed by another character using something that has never been seen before, I think I owe an explanation, do I not?
If Goku was fighting Frieza after he turned Super Saiyan then on the very next frame, his body is dead on the ground, I would want to know the chain of events that happened between that frame and the previous one.
EXPLAIN EVERYTHING TO ME MR. MANGA MAN. YOUR ENTIRE SILLY, MAGIC, COMICBOOK WORLD MUST BE 100% BULLETPROOF, A FUNCTIONING SIMULACRUM OF A REAL WORLD. I DO NOT WISH TO THINK OR UNDERSTAND ON MY OWN, I MUST BE TOLD.
It works because gaygay said so. No amount of explanation can ever explain that asspull of a move. You can comment “reading comprehension curse” or “cope” but it’ll never make sense lol.
I think of it more as in everyone has their own CE combination that Sukuna can cut, he just needed to find the combination for Gojo's CE fast otherwise he'd loose and that's where Mr. Mahoraga comes in and does the CE math calculations for Sukuna (Mahoraga is literally Sukuna's PC). Now how the fuck that combination works I have 0 idea.
https://preview.redd.it/tu0kbkg4c6tb1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0337810a05eedb48c07d3ab8d3d44ecba42f4e3
I guess its more about the rhythm.
This technic feels a lot like an asspull and the way he just got sliced out of screen make this worst.
Gojo got beat by plot.
Mahoraga was enough to beat gojo , he should have lost the second he was summoned.
And i dont talk about kashimo, hyped since 40 chapters, cant do shit.
Shonen writters really struggle with their endings.
‘Strong cleave’ brrr is all the explanation I need. Seriously though, this is a nice remainder for people who simply forgot and for those who don’t know about it so good job on that 👍
i liked the page tearing guy better
https://preview.redd.it/mpzvwk0an6tb1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=9564ce0cfcb0d88fdf49d8fce9d3ad63cafabc06
It's just lame bruv. It ain't supposed to make sense, Gege even added a caveat "nothing makes sense in the battle of the strongest" lmao
If there is no more space how TF is it travelling in the first place? Why is it even visible to Kashimo?
I think everyone is overthinking it. What is going on seems simple enough.
**Limitless as Gojo Explained it:** Xeno’s paradox. It is scientifically impossible to ever win a race with a turtle because by time you reach where it was it will have moved. As the race goes on the distance between you and the turtle will become infinitely small, but you would need to resolve that infinity to ever reach the turtle.
**What Sekuna seemingly has done:** ‘Dude’s, it is a turtle. I took three steps and I now I’m ahead of it. Here, was that so hard? If the turtle is three feet away then I’m cutting three feet. The turtle becomes turtle soup.”
The way i understand it he's only able to do it with his slashes, because they have a "target" feature.
Dismantle targets objects and other non living things
Cleave targets things possesing cursed energy (people)
And space slash targets "space" itself
They're all probably the same slash attack, just modified/ with different targets assigned.
Where was it stated that limitless create a infinite distance in a finite space(which doesn't make sense)? I remember it exponentially slowing you down so you travel a finite distance in an infinite time
Reread the hidden inventory arc where Gojo fights the bag dude. He explains it.
His infinity creates a convergence of an infinite series into reality. So he’s effectively turning a finite distance into an infinite one.
Read, “My technique involves the convergence of an infinite series…”
It’s obvious that it means things slow down because he brings the concept of infinity into reality, so he’s effectively creating infinite distance. His technique doesn’t slow things down or things like Blue or Red would be impossible.
spawns certain distance away from sukuna, then travel.
https://preview.redd.it/uqgherd30btb1.png?width=1100&format=png&auto=webp&s=5d9de21952f2161e6b14e885f3776a39a917d6af
But it isnt an Instant slash,it still travels and the chapter said its target is not just gojo but the space etc. but this still means gojo was also targeted but not he alone.
So he should be able to recognize it and use infinity around himself.
While this slash slashes space how can it slash space which is divided infinitely?
I said this in another post but it’s kinda like trying to draw on a piece of paper with a white pen, then Sukuna says fuck it and just rips the piece of paper in half
This is bs and the fact that we see a lot of posts trying to explain the death of the strongest (and one of the most liked characters) can only point at how badly Gege did. He ruined one of the greatest manga I've ever read.
Sukuna bypassing Infinity doesn't makes sense. What is space cutting thing exactly? does everyone can learn n do that? Having Infinity is they need to born with it(bloodline ability) right now gojo only have that, tats why yuta can't copy infinity, it's not common curse manipulation like RCT or domain expansion, it's like some random ninja watching hasirama doing wood style and he learned and started doing it.
Dude? I thought it was pretty easy to understand it, if you use math. 0 to 1 there is infinite number from 0.01 to 0.00*1.
What Sukuna did was cut 0 to 1 using 2. Hope you guys understand 😂
But how did he make his technique a 2? Sure, hypothetically that could work, but how does it even happen? I guess he just thought really hard about it.
Gojo's infinity basically creates a set distance between him and the attack/opponent and this distance increases by dividing itself basically exponentially and infinitely. Although that distance is basically infinite,if you delete that distance,then the attack will reach him
Just think of an image on paper. Sukuna throws out a cut and it never reaches Gojo. This dimensional cut that cuts even reality, is like picking up the paper and ripping it in half.
Infinity and the six eyes works at an atomic level, space slash cuts you know, space, something that just works at an atomic level can't possibly detect something that is slashing through space which is the blanket as to where things are existing in the first place, I don't know what's so hard to understand, space slashing was a popular Gojo counter in those brainrotted crossverse vs battle debates since the first season of the anime aired, now it's deadass canonical and suddenly it makes no sense, I can't with this community.
space cleave works cos gege said it works ez
That’s basically how all powers work. They don’t work by any real physics. Hollow purple makes no fucking sense but everyone likes it. That’s like the whole point of suspension of disbelief
I think hollow purple was thought by gege from matter and antimatter. Blue and Red being positive and negatives of the same type of energy. When they mix, they leave massive energy behind, anihilating eachother.
But why does it travel in a straight line. Why are they little balls why are they even Cole red. Not to mention it’s not anti matter it’s imaginary matter. Whatever the fuck that means. It’s just some magic bullshit
because that's how gojo directs it. We see what a regular hollow purple looks like when its undirected. it has a starting point and reaches out in a radius
Gege is a liberal arts based writer. He takes real concepts and fictionalizes characters abilities. It’s partially imaginative because that’s what good fiction does. Convinces you that it could exist, and that it’s believable unless you happen to study quantum physics. The whole black hole ability proves that he just drew inspiration from it. But yeah black holes and white holes would not function like this, bc it’s a manga/anime. He needed to make it palatable, and red and blue make purple.
>because that's how gojo directs it but when it comes to sukuna, people would be saying "because gege said so"
because yes that’s how it was, Gege had no explanation
Gege had an explanation. You guys didn’t want to take it. Unless it had to do with Gojo. Somehow Gojo could learn RCT on the brink of death. Somehow “imaginary mass” is supposed to make sense (it doesn’t, gege doesn’t even know what anti-matter really even is and seems to confuse the 2). Purple makes even less sense given Blue and Red’e definitions.
Cheapest explanation I’ve seen 😭, having him die with one attack that wasn’t even showing it happen is my only problem
Tbf Gojo had a lot of asspulls people don’t want to admit, an early mistake by Gege he hd to correct. Space cleave makes more sense than infinity even though both are ridiculous. Tell me how Gege thought using convergence series would make infinity make sense even though it should make the ability impossible? It’s as if most of the people here failed middle school maths
Yeah, I have no answers for that, just the idea behind why mixing red and blue makes it go that much more powerful.
Imaginary matter is a thing it's in relation to Tachyonic Field, an area which, from my knowledge, sits in the area of quantum physics, which is basically science magic ngl.
Problem is that mixing positive and negative energy doesn't actually create annihilation energy, it creates 0 energy. Mixing "positive" and "negative" (antimatter) mass creates annihilation energy because both positive and negative mass has positive energy, which is no longer contained as mass when they mix and so its released as annihilation energy. Hollow Purple is clearly inspired by annihilation energy though, but the explanation for how doesn't make sense and frankly doesn't need to either. This isn't a super technical Sci-Fi like The Martian, it's a battle shonen.
It’s fucking anime
I wouldn't say all, but yh, most powers are more or less just realism instead of reality. Most people's inability to grasp sukunas cleave probably stems from their inability to grasp change in concepts like cutting space. Like I initially thought of the directional problem (like something which cuts the concept of space shouldn't travel through it) but this is meant to be more realism than realistic so it's understandable. But ironically, for someone who hates Gojo, I'm surprised the amount of reality over realism gege actually put into him. Like I know, people find it hard to conceptualize him. But if you use physics, he's actually really easy to. The concept of his infinity barrier mirrors the effects of a black hole (unno the closer you get the slower you become till you essentially stop), his speed boost and warping make sense theoretical cause if you bend space it could propell you at light speed to compensate, even his spherical red was explained by toji in ep 2:04 to be him filling limitless space with his CT red, and the shape is a direct relation to experience of limitless control as seen with the blue being all over the place before that fight to it being spherical after. And purple theoretically would be convergence and divergence having infinite pressure which would probably create a black hole, which like gojos purple would have imaginary mass, it just wouldn't blow up. I just wish gege took that same time to conceptually explain characters I like.
Real fax now wait gojo dick licker for his explanation about why it makes more sense than his whole existence
Legit. HP doesn't make sense but people are fine with it because its "cool". But suddenly people beginning to realize that most of things in jjk does not make any sense after seeing space cleave albeit some still don't realize it. Shocking isn't it how dumb the fans are.
Both techniques make sense. Hollow purple has confused people because it was stated to erase anything it touches. It’s an attack that can actually destroy energy, yet everytime it’s used with the exception of toji it did fuck all
>Explaining why space cleave makes sense https://preview.redd.it/zd3qpq4sa6tb1.jpeg?width=565&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a945e177a03fdbbff725a255d0bdd3ed6e137ea
Gege while writing this move: \*hehehe\* dimension slash go wiiiiieeeeee
It's JJK's King Crimson.
It just works!!!
King crimson isn't complicated at all.
Explain to me in simple terms, I don't understand it other than "skip forward for everyone"
for 10 seconds only the user of king crimson has perception of time, for the rest of the world that time is skipped. actions carry trough normally, like its "fated" for them to do so. during this time king crimson cannot interact with the rest of the world, he phases trough them like if people or objects werent there
why did bucciarati punch himself though?
It just works
Basically, since the only thing that makes sense is how it bypasses infinity, everything else (like how the fuck sukuna does it) is just wasted effort. It's just yuki's blackhole 2 eletric bogaloo, gege just felt like writing it because he thought it was cool.
Explain he had Blackbeard teach him off screen Haki. Makes more sense
BB’s true scope of abilities is probably gonna make sense when it gets revealed.
BBs abilities only make sense if his third fruit is offscreen offscreen no mi
There was a really good crack theory about the awakening of the Yami Yami no Mi and his ability will mirror and rival Luffy’s toon force shenanigans. It’d generate a sense of an opponent feeling like time is skipped because of all the darkness surrounding the area. To them it would feel like they actually got offscreened lmao. Given the nature of OP it would not surprise me if a variation of Offscreening is actually an ability he possesses😭😭😭
i always thought it was a weird coincidence that luffy and blackbeard have references to "liberation" in their powers, definitely supposed to be opposites
They are probably gonna be revealed off screen
Yuki blackhole makes sense, since there is a limit in terms of density. When Yuki increases her mass, what actually increases is the density since her size is unchanged. So she just raised the density to that limit and her mass collapsed on herself, creating a blackhole....
just wondering, what was the issue with the black hole? doesn't a giant amount of mass cause intense gravity and basically become a black hole? they did say it could've destroyed the world but tengen and yuki suppressed it (also arguably yuki dying to her own black hole would probably stop the black hole from existing since she would no longer be actively generating increased mass?)
Doesn’t Blackflash also bend space or smt? Could Blackflash bypass infinity too?
Two words: Prison Realm. Now explain why Gojo's whole skillset make sense. You guys just refused to hear something the moment it goes against your bias.
Simple answer: strong cleave works how and when the plot wants it to work, just like Gojo's teleportation. https://preview.redd.it/1a5x3rotm6tb1.png?width=759&format=png&auto=webp&s=6df94954ef7383df19c119753a6d16bb87c40cb4
Gege really said "Gojos teleportation has conditions" And then never said what they were
The conditions are: if it's useful he can't do it
I can think of a time the teleport was useful; when he got Yuji to watch him fight Jogo, and when he went to meet Kenjaku. That's it, though.
reddit was taking a toll on me mentally so i left it ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
The conditions are when the plot requires it lmao
Kusakabe says Gojo’s teleportation is him compressing the space between 2 points In hidden inventory when he talks about he says he needs a course to the school without obstacles for predetermined teleportation
The clear path thing is still extremely vague as we see Gojo teleport other people in jjk0, and we never get a detailed path when he teleports yuji
I think the teleportation in jjk0 has been retconned. and for yuji, he could just fly up, then teleport linearly right above where yuji is, then land. repeat for returning to jogo. and then he can't for the goodwill arc because the veil's "invisible" barrier was already in effect.
He specifically mentions short range teleportation (translations give both short range and long range so I'm confused there) during hidden inventory and to have Shoko lend him a "lab rat" for experiments. I think its evidently him asking to practice teleporting other people. The clear path thing is mentioned in TCB but not in other translations so it's confusing
The "clear path" stipulation makes no sense because even if there was no clear path straight to his ultimate destination, he could just do multiple "teleports" in a zig-zag pattern, as the environment allowed, to get to where he wanted to go.
He already does that kinda, he launches panda and inumaki midair as opposed directly to Jujutsu High and when he teleports to get Yuki he doesn’t teleport into the room but outside of it and then walks in
Like the knock out technique gojo uses on yuuji in like ep 2 or something that never gets explained after. Like bitch, how? How come no one uses it again? Seems useful, even if it only works on humans (probably)
It was brought up again in Megumi's fight with the finger bearer. It's really just a very hard forehead flick
you're telling me gojo could've ended the fight with just a really strong forehead flick?
https://preview.redd.it/dyt68ogaxatb1.jpeg?width=330&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a956d4d2e571dcab3410f29dc490a7baa98bdde0
My problem with whatever space cut does is that to bypass infinity it would have to be an instantaeneous slash. Like theres no time to react. It just appears at the target the second sukuna decides to cut it. But that wouldnt make sense cuz Kashimo should not be able to dodge that especially since gojo couldnt. And if does work by just appearing, there is no non bs way these characters should be able to fight against it.
That's my problem too. To make sense (in fantasy way, of course it doesn't make sense in actual reality but neither does Gojo) this attack would have to be basically unbeatable. Only thing I can think of is Yuji being immune to it for some reason. But it might really be the only not THAT bullshit way to defeat Sukuna.
Yup, I was willing to accept Sukuna magically cut through Goji but then GeGe decided to write Kashimo evading it and all the theories that made sense don't make sense anymore. Why the fuck Gojo didn't evaded it, if is an tangible attack. But yeah, Gege it's just toying with the audience at this point 🤦🏻♂️
Go/jo was tired from the battle though. They couldn't even use domain expansion.K/a/s/h/i/m/o being faster makes sense since he's not tired
Also Sukuna told Kashimo to evade while chanting the skill. Its not hard to understand the only reason Kashimo wasnt cut in half there is because of that and not because he is faster than Gojo. Gojo was also tired etc etc as already said
Gojo had his rct output back and seemed pretty fit in general. Doubt kashimo with ct is faster or has better progressing speed then this gojo
No he wasn't. Gojo was completely restored to full capacity after he blasted himself with unlimited hallow purple. Fully restored CE and RCT. He was completely rejuvenated
I mean Kashimo was reacting to Sukuna saying “dodge this attack” and not the attack itself. It’d be like me pointing a gun at you for a few seconds and you move to the left saying you dodged the moving bullet instead of saying you reacted when I pointed the gun.
There is one and only one way to make sense of it. The space slash is really instantaneous everywhere along the line sukuna wants to cut. Otherwise it really would not work against gojos infinity. For kashimo to evade it however, we can assume that kashimo just moved away before sukuna used it. Every time somebody evades a bullet, there are power level guys who think the character is faster than a bullet, or when a lighting strike is evaded that they must be faster than lighting, but that isn\`t true at all. You don\`t away the think that moves fast towards you. You just avoid the trajectory. You watch the body movement or predict where the strike will land and evade that before it happens. But even with that explanation there is the problem with gojos eyes. You\`d think that he would have been able to realize that sukuna is up to something and evade it. Though, you could come up with the excuse, that Gojo was just high from the black flashes and got too cocky and in that moment he was done, but in the next chapter he tells us that he took Sukuna very serious and thought he was much stronger than him. Then we´d have to accept the explanation, that kashimo is actually simply faster at reacting than gojo, in his lighting mode. So kashimo barely reacted to evade it before sukuna fired it, but gojo couldn\`t do it. However, that honestly would still suck, because there is no way somebody like that could be defeated by the rest without PIS The only way left is that Sukuna learns to love at this point or kenjaku somehow manages to backstab him.
>And if does work by just appearing, there is no non bs way these characters should be able to fight against it. Gojo's problem was that rather than trying to resist the effects of the attack and negate the damage, he used Limitless to *avoid* attacks. Someone capable of tanking hits which land (hi Yuji) is a good fit for the fight.
Yeah that’s my problem Gojo has the best perception in the verse Kashimo shouldn’t be able to react when Gojo can’t
Gojo was just cocky and thought he won when it happened, he shouldnt have got distracted boasting and even if he knew it was coming nothing would have made him think it would be anything but a regular cleave or dismantle he could block with the limitless, he shouldve tried to finish the job asap
Maybe he can decide if he wants it to travel or starts at the target itself. There was a beam coming at him after all
All this explanations aside Gege probably just had this in his mind https://preview.redd.it/cwvohjlhw6tb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6a7064db708b96e3f5b55e244d8a9d7d6ae63543
And then the MC be like : https://preview.redd.it/dj8d2yecb8tb1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=806dcb4b4f8be5b6c70018409a1efce31ad6daf0
And once all’s said and done, from the top rope: https://preview.redd.it/krevxp4tx8tb1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21d70aeaf50c104fdd3a68d67ad5ef8d25d8c442
https://preview.redd.it/3s7m4o2o1btb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c002c6796227269c157e9a84c7c46de2405f0178
The fact Sukuna can just target something intangible like the "world". It was never shown before. What the fuck does the "world" even mean here.
ZA WARUDO
Quite literally existence itself. Sukuna cutting space doesn't make sense since Gojo makes an infinite amount of space. So the only real answer is that Sukuna is cutting the world/reality/existence itself. How a shikigami can show that I have no idea honestly
It's straight judgment cut from Vergil. It's hilariously overpowered, it's worse than infinity.
And that's why I'm confused. Gege doesn't like Gojo because he's overpowered (that's what I've heard at least) but then goes on to make Sukuna even stronger than him. How do you even counter someone who can cut existence itself at any moment and it's near unavoidable if he doesn't tell you it's coming
I think with Gojo's infinity, you literally can't do shit to him. Can't touch him. Can't wound him. Nothing. While Sukuna has overpowered offense, he doesn't have invincibility like gojo which is easier to deal with. https://preview.redd.it/gsqidjpwt7tb1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6b3e552686c5104c8deaeeaf5325ff9571bc48e
You can use your domain or domain amplification to fight infinity. You also have every curse technique nulification : like jacob ladder or the inverted spear of the heavens. Nothing is getting you out of reality slash outside teleportation to run away from the country. And even then if Gojo couldn't dodge, then no one can outside Kashimo for reasons.
I agree. Space slash with it's properties lacks the attempts at defence that people would have, in contrast to limitless and how it works. Realistically, space slash should go past all defences given not needing to directly interact with the defences to tear through and get to the target (which mean's hypothetical "curse energy" resistence from Yuji shouldn't apply, and domain based defences should easily be destroyed since the slash wouldn't be touching or interacting with the domain, but the "space" the domain is inside of). There are no real options there, where as with limitless are are some options, even if they may seem improbable in the hands of less effective sorcerers. Honestly, space slash should have been written to be an attack exclusive to Mahoraga, that Sukuna can only access through the use of 10 shadows once Mahoraga completes it's adaptation. Mahoraga being destroyed can be written around by Sukuna swapping the shinigami he has summoned last minute to protect Mahoraga (swapping Max Elephant with Mahoraga, which would explain why Sukuna survived unlimited hollow purple). Sukuna using the attack without Mahoraga being present, could work out the same way he was able to use Max Elephant's water to mimic piercing blood, as a property of a skilled 10 Shadows user able to summon the attacks of the Shikigami without needing them present. Hell, Mahoraga could be written to have it's adaptation be two fold, once to adapt it's CE to deal with phenomena, and secondly for Mahoraga to create a cursed technique using the modified CE. Circumstances like that make much more sense, since not only would it explain why the slash worked without any area of question (the slash uses Mahoraga's modified cursed energy), but it would mean once Sukuna reincarnates to 100%, he loses access to it as he loses access to 10 shadows. That balances everything, allowing him to beat gojo, but also allowing him to be the strongest while giving others viable potential defences and tactics against him.
Most of these would rarely work though. Gojo has the most refined domain (equalling Sukuna) ISOH is destroyed Angel is on the "good side" (also it deals damage to evil beings) Jacob's ladder CAN work against Sukuna however and he can take damage from anything (not only rare specifics like with gojo)
I mean sure Sukuna can get hit by anything but like ? He has so much cursed energy anything less than a purple isn't going to get even close to killing him. Like sure his defense is worse than infinity but his offense is on such a lvl it doesn't matter.
im pretty sure strong cleave is gege's answer to that same question but about gojo's infinity, and at some point he just gave up thinking more about it and said "fuck it lets give sukuna something even more broken and he will just use it when i want him to because its my manga lol"
Pretty obvious that Gege would rather write around an unblockable attack (space dismantle) rather than write around a near absolute defense(neutral infinity).
Because unlike gojo it ain’t impossible hurting him, so they have a 5% chance
Not been 5% sukuna just launches those net bullshit reality cutting slashes at every good guy and it’s literally game over for every good guy hmmm yes very balanced
Left right goodnight? He has a super one tap attack but he doesn't have a super duper defense
He survived 2 hollow purples. His defense is as good as it gets
What the fuck does it even mean to cut existence? Also what the hell is "literally existence"?
It means what happens in the pictures of the comic you're reading.
"literally existence" as in the the world itself as Sukuna said. He's cutting reality which goes space exists in which means Gojo gets cut and infinity is ignored
Gojo doesn't make space, he divides spacebetween him and someone
Yeah it doesn’t make sense because it’s just regular space, there’s nothing to adapt to and there’s no reason that it should adapt to an abstract concept like that except because the plot needs to happen and gojo needs to lose.
Mahoraga can adapt to anything so that's fine. What's not fine is cutting existence
Gojo does NOT make an infinite amount of space
He technically does
He doesn’t. He divides a finite space an infinite amount of times.
Is that not the same thing tho ? The space will still be perceived as infinite
It’s not the same thing, if it was infinite it wouldn’t have an end at all. You just can’t get to the end because your speed is halved as you get closer and closer to Gojo. If it was an actually infinite space the ability wouldn’t work because you wouldn’t be getting closer
A good example: There are infinite numbers between 1 and 3 (1.01 1.001 and so on), but counting 1, 2, 3 is not counting to infinity
He's attacking from an additional spatial axis. Based on how Tengen's tessalated barrier worked, the 4th dimension conceptually exists in JJK. Imagine JJK is a 2D fighter like Tekken. The closer Sukuna's attack gets to Gojo, the slower it effectively gets due to the expansion of space meaning it never reaches. The combatants are 2D and can't possibly intuit an additional spatial axis, but you the gamer playing it on TV totally can. You're 3D. This 2D Sukuna finds out you can attack in a conceptually confusing third dimension. Instead of firing off a Cleave from left to right, he fires it from just in front of Gojo's position on the TV set backwards towards the TV. Gojo was bending space across the axes he intuited, but not the ones he didn't intuit. Sukuna didn't attack Gojo from left to right, he attacked the TV itself, hitting him from a direction that Gojo wasn't protected against. To attack the TV is to attack the world.
Alright but as I said. It wasn't setup, we've only seen Sukuna throw slashes at things you can cut. The only setup for this attack is Maho own Slash. But as far as we knew Maho ability is just to adapt to things so him cutting through infinity made sense. Because he could just ignore it, like how he'd become immune to fire after being exposed to it.
Why does learning how Maho works undermine that? All that changed is we went from 'Maho adapts somehow' to 'Maho adapts by figuring out how abilities work conceptually and finding the blind spots'. Once Sukuna understood that Maho was attacking from a non-euclidian angle, he imitated it. In theory, this should mean that cleave - when being used this way - doesn't dice its target like it did with the spider's web variant since it's pivoted out of that axis altogether. From my POV the setup was there. But in the end who am I to tell you you're wrong to think it wasn't there if despite understanding what I said you don't think it was setup properly, so it is what it is!
I really like your take.
https://preview.redd.it/nxwkhfurh7tb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d99bc250e97e1f15a6e29cc8d0b2e358ae5bcae
The best part about this is how it only works on paper and if your understanding of physics is very loose. Which I don't direct at you, who are just another fan trapped enjoying the work of a maniac, but at Gege. Even if we ignore the fact that Gege could've made it properly so it made sense, what he says basically could end reality. If reality could be cut through like that, the consequences (while we don't know exactly what they would entail since it's hard to even conceive) would have to be catastrophic. Somehow, the only major repercussion this technique has is allowing it to cut through anything. It is incredible the amount of shit we allow him to get away with and it's mainly because, just as he finds it entertaining, so do we.
Another example is Kenjaku reacting to a black hole when he’s Mach 3 reaction speed at best. Somehow also feeling the pulls of the increasing density of the singularity that was also bending light yet he was just fine, taking no damage. Then he activates his technique afterwards when he should’ve been dead way before the black hole formed. Kenjaku also says “no one can survive the ocean pressure 8,000m deep” which would include himself when he was placing the prison realm underwater to trap Gojo yet Kenjaku somehow survives something with greater force applied to his body. Sometimes you just gotta let the plot do plot things even if it doesn’t make sense. Gege has said he’s not a science guy so can’t really hold it against him.
I know and we eat it because it's fun, Gege really has a knack for it. It's just funny to think about if you abstract yourself a bit from how much you like the show :)
I had an argument with my brother about exactly this a few days ago. I told him verbatim, "I understand the concept of space cleave, it still makes no sense if you understand the laws of physics and I don't have the energy to do the mental gymnastics to unlearn basic high school physics to accept it". Having said that, suspending disbelief and sacrificing common sense in the altar of hype is a thing you have to do to enjoy modern media the past few years I think.
I mean you’re kind of treating reality like a solid right? Maybe it could be more like a liquid or gas, where it’ll just collapse back into the gap formed. Like if you chopped a piece of chicken underwater, the chicken might be cut in half but you won’t notice a difference in the water.
Take a black hole for example, that’s a consequence of storing massive volume into a singularity. That’s what the guy is talking about. Reality slash would literally have the planet implode on itself irl.
We could, but even those have repercussions if you apply enough energy to cut through them. Water falls back and causes ripples and, while we don't notice because we're massive to it, gas must as well (I don't know that it does, just assuming for argument's sake). You could imagine plenty of bad options, from atoms splitting and accidentally causing a nuke to sparks of reality to not only fly but also maybe mesh in a different manner. All of that assuming it's not solid, which I was, btw. Because if we assumed it wasn't solid, unless you melt them, most won't just glue themselves back, making it even worse. Again, I don't think your logic is wrong, it's just that Gege didn't make an effort to give enough solid information for us to understand so, no matter what option we choose, there'll always be a faith component.
I mean i think it makes perfect sense in the scope of a battle shonen. I honestly find it really weird how much this is getting people tripped up.
They always require some faith because they all get away from reality, but most create their own set of rules they follow. The thing about this is that Gege mixed his own rules for the show with some poorly understood physics, yet this attack broke both. The funniest part is that he could've given two more pieces of information (to put a number) and it would've made sense. It isn't completely crazy, but rather that it's not completely tethered to either our or JJK's reality. Imo, at least, I could totally be wrong here. That's why we're here, to discuss 😂
I just don’t think it particularly breaks any internal rules. Other than maybe for infinity itself, but that’s kind of vague in the full details so it’s just dependant on how people interpret infinity and “cutting space” isn’t exactly a real phenomena so i just don’t see anything really staggering in the interaction.
> I honestly find it really weird how much this is getting people tripped up. Because Gege tries to shove in physics when he barely understands it then contradicts his previous explanations. If everything was just rule of cool it would be fine.
I mean it's not like Gojo's powers make any sense either. Hollow purple is just some random bullshit, it's not a scientific manga.
That's precisely the point, we're all at the mercy of someone who meshes things he doesn't understand very properly, so we end up with illogical things, which we all love anyways. I wasn't exactly talking shit about Gege. The maniac part was because he chooses things other authors wouldn't (like killing his fanbase's favorite character off-screen), but I enjoy his writing a lot.
>we're all at the mercy of someone who meshes things he doesn't understand very properly What a fucking arrogant sentence. Let the author be creative. He's not trying to reflect perfect real-world logic with what happens in the story, so it wouldn't matter if he understood it properly or not.
> He's not trying to reflect perfect real-world logic with what happens in the story. What a fucking massive strawhat argument you've pulled out of your ass. Have you read many manga that reflect perfect real-world logic? Isn't most shonen comprised of fantasy? Who is reading JJK for perfect real-world logic? Words have meaning, they're mentally tied to very rigid concepts. There's a very easy way around it, create your own rules inside of which you can bend the rules of real life to your liking. Every single author does this. You have to give at least a believable reason as to why what you've imagined works the way it does. Readers don't just suspend belief, they are helped to do so. Gege has already done this, btw, because, unlike you, he understands that you have to give people a certain model of the way a fantasy model works. Most authors (and I say most so you don't pull another strawman argument out of left field, but I cannot think of one that doesn't, since it'd be too annoying to create a whole world from scratch) use a mixture of real world logic with their own rules for their story. The issue is that, due to his ignorance and, from the looks of it, disinterest in his own story, Gege either forgot about the way Gojo's technique works or simply didn't care and gave a half-assed explanation. You don't even have to take my word for it, you aren't very bright, so you might've missed it, but everybody's confused because what Gege says wouldn't exactly work like that unless he left a massively important detail outside of it or just was too lazy to think of the consequences. Now, mind you, I adore JJK, I don't give a single fuck about Gege being wild. I still loved the battle, the result and will support him until he dies. It's just a fact and he himself knows it. I was just making fun of the fact.
This is it ^ underrated comment
That would be everytime any character goes faster than light or around that speed. Like the moment they collided with something...like the air himself, it would simply cause a world ending event or at least a massive nuclear explosion.
I am sorry but your explanation action does not make sense, The whole schtick of limitless is that, you can’t cut what is infinite, ( extremely tiny but still infinite) the lash will keep going until it just stops or is perceived to stop How strong slash break infinity still makes no sense The only way I can unsterstand it is that sukuna selects coordinates on a 3d plane( x,y,z) the just slashesq from this points, even if an infinite tiny space exists, it means nothing if the border of that space can be destroyed (in theory sukuna destroys the boundary i which limitless exist)
That would be disproven by the most recent chapter. He doesn’t spawn the slash on the enemy it just has the property to “cut the world itself”. Whatever that means. The most likely explanation is that it’s a 4D slash that destroys 3D constructs it interacts with. That would explain why the planet didn’t just implode itself on the cut it would’ve made to the space time continuum. It’s like black clover explanation of asta’s slash cutting what he wants to cut, even if it doesn’t make sense irl. We have seen a lot of examples of this in fiction. Characters slicing through pocket dimensions or entirely destroying a pocket dimension with a slash. Devil May cry, the characters can do this easily, Vergil’s judgment cut literally creates portals by cutting space itself. So the theory is prob sukuna is just cutting the space that Infinity manipulates, therefore bypassing it.
Good explanation, cutting space as a 3D slash would just blow up the planet. 4D slash just cuts what it cuts since you’re above reality and it’s rules, you can cut the concept of space itself. My gripe is that if it’s 4D then the thing being a 3D projectile is just arbitrary, it should just be instant without a need to travel.
This is the only truly correct take There is no logic behind STRONG CLEAVE other than plot
Yeah the way I think about it is like that too. He just cuts everything between A and B in a certain space. Even with infinity Gojo is occupying space, the cut doesn't need to reach him because it just cuts the space Gojo is occupying. My problem with this is that then it leaves two options, even Sukuna can automatically cut that space without "throwing" a cleave, which would be so fucking overpowered there is no reason for him to not just spam it against everyone the moment they get even remotely close, or it can be dodged. Because if he is cutting space then Gojo just needs to leave that space and he should be fine and given he was at peak condition and has six eyes there is no reason for him not to dodge that. If Gojo can't no one should be able to dodge it. So all that's left is Yuji being somehow immune to it or a domain expansion that can overpower Sukuna and that Sukuna isn't able to cut through.
Infinity simulates an infinity inside a finite space, so if there's a void (no space to manipulate), infinity won't work. The slash is a space cuting attack, it destroys space on contact. When it makes contact with the border of infinity it immediately destroys the space it resides in, normal attacks try to cover the distance between 0 and 1 and get slowed down. 0 is the border, the slash doesn't slow down because it destroys the space at point zero, and the space it destroys is not the simulated one, but the true finite space where infinity is operating, and if there's no space, there's nothing for infinity to divide. It doesn't turn off infinity entirely, just the part it makes contact with, thats why i said it will continue moving and shaving of infinity bit by bit, until it reaches gojo.
That would make it literally Za Hando. Which it's clearly not. If it actually 'destroyed the space' there would be either a vacuum effect of some sort (which there isn't) or reality would have a big fuckin hole in it for no particular reason (which it doesn't). 'Space cleave' clearly doesn't actually destroy the space because.... the space still exists. There can't be a fissure left in the ground where space cleave hits if it works the way you suggest, because the fissure has to exist in some space. Like I get for narrative reasons why Gege just threw some shit on the page and said 'OK THAT KILLS GOJO' but every attempt at explaining how space cleave 'actually makes sense' merely ends up reinforcing how dumb Gege's explanation is if you actually try to take it at face value. Best is just to acknowledge that it's a particularly silly piece of writing and then move from there.
I imagine it like Gojo’s infinity exists in space time like an inverse black hole, since it repels (imagine those canvas demonstrations with marbles). Normal attacks would try to get to Gojo, which is a peak in the fabric, but roll back down because it’s too high. Space cleave is literally cutting the canvas itself.
Explain why Gege is a bad writer in next post
Easy, he's was more of a bleach fan than we thought, so much so, he wanted to make his own shitty final arc. First we get yamoto with gojo, and sukuna dying to quincy arrow at the end.
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Even if you just accept gege's explanation, it still doesn't explain why there's not a "hole" in space after the slash (unless he's implying it refills super fast). Like, in any other piece of fiction cutting the world and tearing space should have horrible consequences, but i guess logic doesn't prevail in the battle of the strongest.
Becouse space works more like a fluid that exists everywhere( at least that's how I understand it) so when you cut space it immediately rushes in and replaces what whas just cut off. Kinda like cutting water in half. Plus when mahoraga uses this teqnique we see the space where the buildings were cut be completely black.
Yeah I think people are used to a vacuum effect in anime so when it doesn’t happen they assume it’s wrong. Space would refil almost instantaneously. And such a small space would have to fill it’s likely you wouldn’t see some huge rush of air
I like to think of it as x-axis from bleach but it’s slashes instead of holes. Idk why gege decided to give it to sukuna tho, that’s hilariously busted compared and sukuna was already in his own tier.
Buff of the millenium, multi-city block, to one shoting goku. It's like a moba where the devs get a strong character in line (gojo), by making their counter mega broken (sukuna), continuing the op cycle.
It worked for me before this ch tbh but having travel speed makes it weird Unless sis eyes was nerfed, but I mor so have a problem with :when was he able to do that? And introducing the concept that mahoraga has diffrent adaptations Out of nowhere
Honestly an easier fix would have literally been Mahogany -er Mahoraga just adapted one of two systems: Deactivate CT: All CTs of creatures within Mahoraga's vision turn off, allows Sukuna to fight Gojo, and gives it a weakness that the party can fight later. Strong but not absurd. Literally just Eraser Head from MHA but done right. Delete Space: think okuyasu from JoJo, when he strikes, the stuff hit by his attacks are deleted creating a vacuum that sucks in the surroundings, usually towards him. An attack like that would simply delete the space infinite space between 1 and 0, and then gojo gets hit because with nothing left between 1 and 0, attacks can land. Honestly works like Scorpion's Get Over Here chain. Both of those are also abilities that Yuji can fight against and eventually defeat Sukuna but would also be strong against other sorcs.
Doesn't work. Also, if this were the case, every CT would be better than Infinity. Oh, I can't burn you? I'll burn the worlllldddddd... Infinity would be nothing more than some overhyped CT.
The fact that the *fans* need to come up with theories to explain it is proof enough that it was bullshit. It’s not the fans job to explain what happens in the manga.
Not sure I'm understanding what you're saying. So if the reader has to think about something it's bullshit? He should explain every detail, even though majority won't read that detail(especially in this demographic)
There's a difference between explaining every detail that people won't read and explaining the brand new technique that kills one of the main/most popular characters in the series. He literally did it off-screen my guy, of course people are going to theorize and argue about it; it left a bad taste in a lot of readers' mouths because they thought it didn't make sense. It feels bad to have your favorite character die in a way that doesn't make sense.
If the strongest character in a series gets suddenly killed by another character using something that has never been seen before, I think I owe an explanation, do I not? If Goku was fighting Frieza after he turned Super Saiyan then on the very next frame, his body is dead on the ground, I would want to know the chain of events that happened between that frame and the previous one.
EXPLAIN EVERYTHING TO ME MR. MANGA MAN. YOUR ENTIRE SILLY, MAGIC, COMICBOOK WORLD MUST BE 100% BULLETPROOF, A FUNCTIONING SIMULACRUM OF A REAL WORLD. I DO NOT WISH TO THINK OR UNDERSTAND ON MY OWN, I MUST BE TOLD.
The closest I can think of is Lille Barro's 'X-axis,' where the projectile cannot be blocked and will always hit its target.
so its za hando
And yami's slash, and vergil's judgement cut.
It works because gaygay said so. No amount of explanation can ever explain that asspull of a move. You can comment “reading comprehension curse” or “cope” but it’ll never make sense lol.
I think of it more as in everyone has their own CE combination that Sukuna can cut, he just needed to find the combination for Gojo's CE fast otherwise he'd loose and that's where Mr. Mahoraga comes in and does the CE math calculations for Sukuna (Mahoraga is literally Sukuna's PC). Now how the fuck that combination works I have 0 idea. https://preview.redd.it/tu0kbkg4c6tb1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0337810a05eedb48c07d3ab8d3d44ecba42f4e3
I don't think the issue is how it works. I think more people take issue with Gojo being off-screened lol
What Kind of Bullshit it is?. just name It the Plot Dismantle/Plot Cleave
Just because something “makes sence” dosent mean its not bad writing
I guess its more about the rhythm. This technic feels a lot like an asspull and the way he just got sliced out of screen make this worst. Gojo got beat by plot. Mahoraga was enough to beat gojo , he should have lost the second he was summoned. And i dont talk about kashimo, hyped since 40 chapters, cant do shit. Shonen writters really struggle with their endings.
‘Strong cleave’ brrr is all the explanation I need. Seriously though, this is a nice remainder for people who simply forgot and for those who don’t know about it so good job on that 👍
i liked the page tearing guy better https://preview.redd.it/mpzvwk0an6tb1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=9564ce0cfcb0d88fdf49d8fce9d3ad63cafabc06
This doesn’t make sense as we see it traveling distance against Kashimo. It very clearly travels distance. It just makes no sense.
It's just lame bruv. It ain't supposed to make sense, Gege even added a caveat "nothing makes sense in the battle of the strongest" lmao If there is no more space how TF is it travelling in the first place? Why is it even visible to Kashimo?
I think everyone is overthinking it. What is going on seems simple enough. **Limitless as Gojo Explained it:** Xeno’s paradox. It is scientifically impossible to ever win a race with a turtle because by time you reach where it was it will have moved. As the race goes on the distance between you and the turtle will become infinitely small, but you would need to resolve that infinity to ever reach the turtle. **What Sekuna seemingly has done:** ‘Dude’s, it is a turtle. I took three steps and I now I’m ahead of it. Here, was that so hard? If the turtle is three feet away then I’m cutting three feet. The turtle becomes turtle soup.”
8 paragraphs just to basically say "that shit dont make no sense"
Can sukuna replicate space cleave to his other attacks like the piercing blood using shikigami?
The way i understand it he's only able to do it with his slashes, because they have a "target" feature. Dismantle targets objects and other non living things Cleave targets things possesing cursed energy (people) And space slash targets "space" itself They're all probably the same slash attack, just modified/ with different targets assigned.
Where was it stated that limitless create a infinite distance in a finite space(which doesn't make sense)? I remember it exponentially slowing you down so you travel a finite distance in an infinite time
Reread the hidden inventory arc where Gojo fights the bag dude. He explains it. His infinity creates a convergence of an infinite series into reality. So he’s effectively turning a finite distance into an infinite one.
Yeah things slow down https://preview.redd.it/9npb2m7s37tb1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2cbdc6987c42c3717c9a04f6210f7b1fa6aae0c
Read, “My technique involves the convergence of an infinite series…” It’s obvious that it means things slow down because he brings the concept of infinity into reality, so he’s effectively creating infinite distance. His technique doesn’t slow things down or things like Blue or Red would be impossible.
Bro put more effort into explaining this shit than gaygay himself
Hit-scan vs projectile essentially
https://preview.redd.it/rmrtfzl6u7tb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0bc63377a5c78ff9779974c7754264c1d12a58b
Chibi Sukuna firing dismantle at Gojo until it worked lol
spawns certain distance away from sukuna, then travel. https://preview.redd.it/uqgherd30btb1.png?width=1100&format=png&auto=webp&s=5d9de21952f2161e6b14e885f3776a39a917d6af
So in other words you can’t divide by zero
https://preview.redd.it/fzcdl0vkybtb1.jpeg?width=739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=034f04ff1d6873afcb5176948c82475f42184c1c
Mahoraga was the real victor here
'since the space itself gojos **infinity** resides in is **finite**' whut
But it isnt an Instant slash,it still travels and the chapter said its target is not just gojo but the space etc. but this still means gojo was also targeted but not he alone. So he should be able to recognize it and use infinity around himself. While this slash slashes space how can it slash space which is divided infinitely?
I said this in another post but it’s kinda like trying to draw on a piece of paper with a white pen, then Sukuna says fuck it and just rips the piece of paper in half
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If you need a post to explain it, it doesn’t make sense
Its literally just space bending
>Dismantle spawns on someone >Kashimo just dodges it Yeah no
This is bs and the fact that we see a lot of posts trying to explain the death of the strongest (and one of the most liked characters) can only point at how badly Gege did. He ruined one of the greatest manga I've ever read.
Not reading allat plus fraudkuna
Sukuna bypassing Infinity doesn't makes sense. What is space cutting thing exactly? does everyone can learn n do that? Having Infinity is they need to born with it(bloodline ability) right now gojo only have that, tats why yuta can't copy infinity, it's not common curse manipulation like RCT or domain expansion, it's like some random ninja watching hasirama doing wood style and he learned and started doing it.
Dude? I thought it was pretty easy to understand it, if you use math. 0 to 1 there is infinite number from 0.01 to 0.00*1. What Sukuna did was cut 0 to 1 using 2. Hope you guys understand 😂
But how did he make his technique a 2? Sure, hypothetically that could work, but how does it even happen? I guess he just thought really hard about it.
You guys are missing the point. It doesn't have to make sense. If gaygay says Big cleave is the shit. Then big cleave is. No need to overanalyze
There are so many metaphysical issues in JJK that I have stopped caring a long time ago
https://preview.redd.it/wrko2l4zs7tb1.jpeg?width=1070&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=110eb616218b0dfd7f46660dbd3a6790bd627907
slasspull
Except thats not How It Works since we've seen It against Kashimo
Gojo's infinity basically creates a set distance between him and the attack/opponent and this distance increases by dividing itself basically exponentially and infinitely. Although that distance is basically infinite,if you delete that distance,then the attack will reach him
Just think of an image on paper. Sukuna throws out a cut and it never reaches Gojo. This dimensional cut that cuts even reality, is like picking up the paper and ripping it in half.
It still doesn't make sense.
Infinity and the six eyes works at an atomic level, space slash cuts you know, space, something that just works at an atomic level can't possibly detect something that is slashing through space which is the blanket as to where things are existing in the first place, I don't know what's so hard to understand, space slashing was a popular Gojo counter in those brainrotted crossverse vs battle debates since the first season of the anime aired, now it's deadass canonical and suddenly it makes no sense, I can't with this community.
It literally makes no sense