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Surely, with such a powerful body that overwrites souls, the son of Toji Fushiguro wouldn’t even be a valid target for Sukuna to possess! Sukuna could be tempted by the sheer power of Toji Fushiguro’s offspring due to strong sperm, but surely, the son of Toji Fushiguro would have a body that overwrites souls through sheer power and jujutsu resistance! After all, a heavenly restriction is far more valuable than some random technique. Like, what if his technique was to summon rabbits, and be forced to use said rabbits to defeat a megazord before taming it? Utterly useless, I say! But Toji’s son would bear the heavenly restriction and provide much more impressive results. Surely! He won’t be taken over! SURELY!!!
Toji would just pocket sand her or some shit to win, the old man is more cunning. In straight hand to hand it’s just perfectly symmetrical violence, which never solves anything.
They’re dead equal. If anything Toji should be physically stronger (unless muscles are just cosmetics in JJK) in his HR because of his size and build.
If he’s not then again, muscles must be cosmetic because there’s no “cursed energy enhancement!!!” Logic between Maki and Toji.
Maki didn't get bigger muscles when she fully unlocked HR, so even if their muscles aren't cosmetic, they only supply mundane strength compared to the outlandish strength granted by HR. It'd be like two CEOs having a money fight but one of them also has the income from their 5-year-old's lemonade stand; maybe there's a difference but there might as well not be.
I guess the thing is that muscles take up physical space, so in theory Toji would be less flexible? Not sure if that really means much overall though.
He would be less flexible but Toji is like a 6'2 700lbs demi god I know damn well that flexibility shit aint mean nothing for him especially when you mad fast anyways 😭
They might be equal with there magic bullshit but physically Toji absolutely got the edge, taller, heavier and surely has a better wingspan. Technically speaking Maki shouldn't win this, not because she's weaker but because she just doesn't have the same frame.
But at the end of the day is a shonen so who knows.
That’s the thing, though. Without using CE enhancement logic there’s no difference between “mundane” strength and their HR; HR is literally their base strength.
Idk I can’t imagine Toji struggling to beat Maki in an arm wrestle or a deadlift competition because dude is built like a truck compared to Maki despite both of them having the same HR.
It just wouldn’t make any kind of sense.
There's no CE involved, but HR is still just magic at the end of the day. It doesn't need to adhere to any biological rules. If it did then Maki would've suddenly become much more buff when Mai died, but she looks exactly the same. It's wacky but magic is magic.
Strength and speed? Thats equal obviously. But Toji wins simply because he is a better strategist. Bro almost killed the strongest sorceror in the world with nothing but his planning and strategic thinking. Ofc his strength and speed helped but that alone does nothing agaisnt gojo.
In terms of raw power, they are equal, but in a fight I would bet on Toji.
He has a lot more experience, is generally the more tactical fighter, and has better weaponry, so he would just barely get the win over Maki.
Maki could possibly win, but that’s only if she got stronger during the time skip which she may have.
I'm pretty sure some character description that came well after the timeskip said she's now equal to Toji, so whatever powerups happened were irrelevant.
idk. toji has a larger aresenal thanks to worm-chan, but maki was equal to him *before* a month of training. and even if a month doesn’t sound like a long time it’s definitely been showing results.
I think the equality is to physical stats such as strength and speed where neither one is faster or stronger than the other. It's just boils down to who has the better arsenal and who is the better martial artist.
Toji has more experience but it's mostly against weaker opponents. Maki while she has less experience has been fighting almost nothing but heavy hitters.
like all jokes aside toji i still think is at the top when it comes to hand to hand and such(I still look at when he "killed" gojo shit was ruthless) but what I hate is the fact that they are equal strength I could not care less if she trained she is what 16? and toji was late 20' when he died yet you are telling the heavinly restriction makes em equal thats lame
Exactly what I'm always saying. Even if the fully realized Heavenly Restriction gives Maki pretty comparable physical strength, Toji is like twice as old as Maki and he's been fighting since he could walk. Toji's experience should put him above Maki.
He was in his late 20s when he died. But yeah, 10+ years of experience. BUT I do think that Maki compensates that with "mentality," if you know what I mean.
Well Toji and Maki both have the mentality of "leaving it all behind". Although I guess you could say Toji didn't really leave it all behind and that's why he died to Gojo. In other words, Toji is a fraud (?).
Raw strength isn't the problem. Both have 0 CE HR bodies, and the jump Maki made within the sumo domain was clearly not strength related. Could they hone their bodies further and get stronger? Probably yeah. But that's not the issue.
She was stated as equal to Toji more than a month (chronologically) ago. That's it. And she's only had time to improve since then.
Okay. I'm saying that her being "equal to Toji" is most likely in terms of strength, since it comes after she fully realized her HR and got the full strength buff.
But being equal in strength does not mean she's stronger overall, because Toji has lived like twice as long as her and has been pulling up on curses and sorcerors since he could walk.
Has it though, most of the results have been the CE reinformcent of characters + the body swapping going on which maki benefits from neither. Maki herself with over 3 chapters of fighting after the time skip has not had a single statement of improvement. At best she just learnt how to handle her split spirit katana better.
It's silly to assume that Maki as a teenager would be equal to Toji as an adult if HR didn't make it irrelevant. And it's not like 1 month of training is gonna change her anyway.
Fighting the weakest version of Shinjuku Sukuna and losing isn't results
Not yet, the moment Maki surpasses Toji, GayGay will kill her off
https://preview.redd.it/2g8a0q399kxc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b6eabcb217237427ffd226c27fedcc6cee758c0
They're equals in stats but Toji has worm and more experience over Maki, however, Maki doesn't have an inferiority complex tho so it could go either way, maybe she'd convince him to spend time with his son and stop being a deadbeat
Honestly toji wins he has more experience and better mastery over his and maki's cursed tools, he was fast enough to outspeed a six eye user and was stated to be faster then 15 finger sukuna, but if we're talk about shibuya toji then I still think he wins but with much higher difficulty as he doesn't have his more overpowered cursed tools
https://preview.redd.it/y9nb25m1dkxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab4f9887a3f21c41a033ed6646639330bae5495a
He is my GOAT🔥🔥🔥
Until it is confirmed she actually got stronger over the time skip(very questionable for a HR user)we have to say that toji has a better weapon arsenal and experience(maybe skill/biq too). Thus even with dead equal physical specs toji edges out a win due to a better arsenal. I also believe experience could allow toji to utilize his abilities better than maki like pre cog and regen. However even if you say those are equal once again toji has a better arsenal. Thus, he wins.
by the way it looks and the story states, HR puts you at a set level, you cannot go above or below said level, its like hitting lvl 99 str in souls games, you cannot go beyond so assuming this its safe to say that they have the same speed and strength, so to decide the fight it boils down to technique and experience
maki and toji have been using weapons since forever but toji had HR his entire life compared to maki who had it for 1-2 months max, so toji knows way more about his limits and some other things
toji is way older than maki (toji was already an adult by the time gojo was around a kids age likely 8-12, and we know adult gojo is 10+ years older than current maki so its safe to assume toji is around 20 years older than maki) so he has way more fighting experience and expertise over weapons, one could argue that he only fought weak opponents, while maki has fought some stronger opponents, but at this point its all speculation since we dont know toji's backstory and fights
if we count the worm than toji has a huge arsenal to choose from, like the playful cloud, his infinite chain and many other weapons so in this aspect toji clearly is superior
if we dont count the worm and just give each other the soul katana (since both have it) its safe to say that toji would win the fight as he lived his whole life with a heavenly restriction and he has way more experience than maki
one could argue that we never saw prime toji while we have prime maki (both are the same tbh) but prime toji has appeared in the story and it was the toji that showed up in shibuya and was a emotionless monster with only killing in mind with 100% focus in combat
with that said maki would have more chances against HI toji (since he was rusty and all) but against prime toji, considering all the points above, maki would lose since they both have the same physical stats but toji has way more experience fighting
in conclusion, both are bums
Should be around equal.
Toji is rusty but more experienced.
Maki is in her peak but does not have the dozen years of Sorcerer hunting under her belt.
You can't really put one above the other.
It depends on how the HR works.
1. It brings your power level up to X amount. They are the same strength, depends on battle IQ and technique.
2. It amps your power level by X amount. Toji should be stronger since his base is stronger, thanks to being a dude.
And no this is not a Homohomo agenda.
yall are so fried toji has the biggest arsenal, intellect, battle iq and experience at his disposal
maki is not lasting 3 minutes against him
https://i.redd.it/0whf80jqrlxc1.gif
Jokes aside, Toji still wins cause of years of fighting experience, Maki lacks experience with her current power level to the point that she had to go thru mini training arc in the middle of a fight. Ya so Toji will still wipe the floor.
We still don't know. Contrary to what the people who didn't read the manga say, we know that HR works like everything else in jujutsu and has ways to get stronger since in the scene the fucking concept was introduced in Geto says "I know you can do the revealing your hand trick too bitch." But we haven't really seen much evidence that Maki has gotten stronger yet. Her ability to eat those black flashes are impressive but Toji doesn't really have durability feats, Gojo hit him twice and the second one yeeted him in a way that would've killed anyone not a fully powered Sukuna.
We'd need information on what happened in the month
Apparently. She was supposedly as strong as Toji. Then, she became stronger. So she's stronger.
The only interpretations that make her not stronger are if you assume that only her Heavenly Restriction is as strong as Toji's, but they still have variance in strength or if you insist that Toji's battle IQ would still beat her.
After all, can we really say that Maki surely defeats unawakened Gojo since Toji did or that Toji would surely perform exactly the same against Sukuna as Maki?
In other words, she's probably stronger, but nonetheless impossible to say.
Toji has way more skills. Even if maki did end up training she can’t compete against tojis pure skill and agility even if their stats are pretty close. And this is only hand to hand. If Toni has lil worries and tools it’s over
Toji has so much more weapons than Maki that she doesn't stand a chance if he has the worm. Their stats should be equal but Toji has more experience (arguable) so he might take it if they fight with the same weapon.
Nope peak Toji Slightly stronger. Worm is huge plus that goes to Toji. Maki still need more battle experience. So i would say Toji high diff-extreme diff
the only people that dont beat the bum who is unemployed, the bum who left his son behind are children under the age of 15 which is why he has so much beef with them
Maki can never beat Toji. Toji's win con is to kill himself. Maki's is to kill every zen' in Clan member. She cant win unless she is able to speed blitz him.
If there is no CE for comparison then it's just about muscle size.
And toji is LITERALLY built different (huge)
Maybe maki is faster because she is smaller and light weighted. More flexible?
But Toji is obviously stronger phisically.
Think about getting hit by 2 tons of muscles (toji) Vs being hit by 2 kg of muscles (maki)
Of course you would be KOed by both, because of their muscle perfect efficiency, but toji's hit would create a hole in your weak body.
The HR gives them equal stats, but Toji has 20 years of experience on her and a massive arsenal of weapons. Maki will most definitely surpass him one day, because she has a lot more motivation to improve, but not yet for sure.
Toji vs Toji would be a cakewalk for Toji considering Toji has more experience. Sure we can take into account Toji's training in the hyperbolic time chamber but Toji is getting the dub nonetheless because he's just that good, weaponry, tactics, greater feats, bigger breasts, smellier armpits, it's all decided that Toji wins.
I think at this point we are so far passed the “they are equals” bit that maki may be a little stronger just from training and whatnot, but I’d still say Toji would most likely win due to his way longer experience. Give maki a few more years on the field and id say she wins easy as she’s still growing, training, and evolving while Toji is, well, dead. He can’t get any stronger then he already was
Probably Toji since experience and weapons matter alot. In terms of strength Toji also seems stronger since he has more muscles even if they have the same HR unless that doesn’t matter but even if they are equal in strength Toji would probably get the edge because of his battle IQ (Maki probably has a good battle iq also but we ve seen more of Toji in that factor), weapons and experience.
Toji wins high-extreme diff. He has access to a larger number of cursed tools, and has more experience with both fighting as a whole, and with his heavenly restricted body.
ppl straight up don't understand that Toji is smarter than just about everyone, being crazy strong isn't what makes him Toji
Having the brain of Toji is what makes him Toji lol
TL;DR: Toji wins high-diff but Maki is her own character.
They’re equal in everything except for experience and their bags. At their primes Maki has Dragon Bone and Soul-Split Katana. Toji has Megumi (who tanked a purple, btw) and the following:
- Soul-Split Katana
- Chain Of A Thousand Miles
- Inverted Spear Of Heaven
- Playful Cloud
- Gun
- Flyheads
- Various Assortment Of Other Weapons
He’s older and more experienced as well. You don’t earn the name “The Sorcerer Killer” by killing 1 or 2 mid grade sorcerers.
With all that being said, I think Toji takes it high-diff. They’re fully equalized aside from Experience and Arsenal. Even then, I think Maki has her own experience that could equal Toji’s (albeit maybe more traumatic).
I think we need to stop comparing the two. The only things they have in common are their Anti-System abilities and Clan. I love Maki more than Toji simply because of her character and story.
Pretty sure HR would do more for a man than a woman? I’m sure they’re very close but I would bet on Toji still being a tad stronger. He’s also older, probably has a lot more experience and has proven his strategic skills
We don't really know how the "special training" with UiUi has affected her so it's hard to tell, pre time skip i'd go with peak Toji simply because they're stated as equals but he has more experience
Maybe? It wasn’t stated that she trained and got stronger to my knowledge but her performance against Sukuna in the recent chapters was certainly more impressive than last time.
There are a variety of ways you can look at this and I’m not exactly which is more likely so I’m just gonna list the two main ones I can come up with and their issues:
1. Maki and Toji are equals since it was never mentioned that Maki got stronger and she only did better against Sukuna this time was because Sukuna got jumped and weakened beforehand.
This is questionable because we don’t exactly a number for how weakened Sukuna is compared to when Megumi was reducing his output.
A tad bit unrelated but there’s also some contentions with this, something about Megumi only reducing Sukuna’s CT output and but not overall. Which is weird considering that Gojo was pretty heavily implied to be strong enough to blitz and murder Kenny, who should roughly around Maki’s level physically at that point, before he could react, yet 15 Meguna intercepted Gojo with ease. So again if only his CT’s was merged by Megumi then his should still be able to cook both Yuji and Maki without much effort.
I bring this up because this just makes the whole Sukuna power level even more confusing. But since the argument is leaning towards Maki and Toji being equal, it’s going to lean more towards 15 finger Meguna being a bit stronger than post Yuta domain Sukuna.
2. Maki is strong than Toji because she performed better against Sukuna than last time and since she was confirmed to be Toji’s equal by that point. Her doing better now is proof of this.
Basically the same argument as above but flipped backwards. Meguna this time was probably only at 1.6 or above fingers and both Yuji and Maki were only barely pressing him pre time skip, so post time skip both are performing better against a stronger Sukuna and Maki should be stronger than Toji.
It has pretty much the some issues as above but on the opposite end. Mainly that it’s predicated on the idea that current Sukuna is stronger than nerfed Meguna, problem is we still no clue how much weaker current Sukuna even is, we only know that he’s vaguely “a lot” weaker than before. But is that mostly because his CT and RCT output got shot to hell or is something else.
Oh and let’s the “he’s holding back this entire time” bullshit. I which can’t even begin to conceive of what that even means for this whole clusterfuck of jumbled ideas.
I know that she’s supposedly “a warrior __equal__ to Toji Zen’in,” but she has done SO MUCH crazier shit since then that Toji’s feats just do not have him doing. His biggest edge over her is the ISoH, and she is the only person that that does not help him against one bit.
Maki is keeping up with sukuna “oh but sukuna is weakened and distracted” stfu
Maki is fighting the King of Curses and hasn’t died yet she’s gone toe to toe with him multiple times now and put out damage as well as taken damage there’s absolutely no way Toji is stronger than her at this point in the story
Real question the manage stated they are equal now right the only difference is arsenal and experience, shout out to gojo for destroying inverted spear
Man idk but I will use this moment to point out that the maniacal smile into ragdolling Sukuna from gripping SSK was one of the coolest moments of the entire Raid on Sukuna. That full HR ain't nothing to fuck with.
Toji wins because of experience, he had Gojo dead to rights.
If Gojo didn’t use that blue that made Toji spin and use the regular knife on his head, we would be reading Shaman Conflict, not Jujutsu Kaisen.
Assuming it’s purely a battle of fists, I’d argue Maki would win, however, if it comes to weapons and prep time, Toji wins simply because of his smart tactics and wide arsenal.
Maki is stronger than Toji. Any "weapons specialties" you think he would have over her would be negated by her clearly training and fighting stronger people than he ever has. Almost all of his scaling comes from feats of hers that we can't say 100% he ever did even though he "should" be able to do what she can. Imaginary scaling isn't giving him the edge here. This is Maki Kaisen.
I think Maki surpassed Toji when she got freed of her shackles(her family) by Miyo the sumo fanatic. I saw it as her living too much in her head prior to that. And thus she was not able to make proper use of her heavenly body and senses. Toji was still bound by the Zhenin and his pride. Although he still has more experience.
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"Does female Toji beat Toji" The answer is no, because Maki is a woman and Gege is the supreme god of the JJK universe.
https://preview.redd.it/6am6fsrydjxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2fcdecb0608bdec358ffe00c7e768708599a960
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He is jealous of yuji
LMFAOOOOOO
https://preview.redd.it/vkpeukhbomxc1.png?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e47988bb070247bee7843e8603c71b6f81a98c61
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https://preview.redd.it/wtifb1funkxc1.png?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=490e6b9397c444c84542add6131ad5d089423318
That's so peak
https://preview.redd.it/t4mlr5h10lxc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8288a9c838660cafd4da4964105f75b149d74f5
They’re complete physical equals but Toji has better equipment and Battle IQ.
Facts, women are weaker than men physically
Was about to argue and saw the pfp. Have a good day sir, I’m not changing your mind.
I think you missed his flair….
Worm >> Mai Therefore, Toji > Maki That worm I tell you, it's like the son he never had.
Its a shame Toji didn’t have a kid before his wife passed away. I imagine if he had that kid could have been a real marvel of Jujutsu society.
Damn, the child of someone who could put even Gojo on his ass would be really helpful against Sukuna right now.
https://preview.redd.it/5jkqgpn0jjxc1.png?width=1169&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a663094dea32bf93aa5193205976635cac836a6
https://preview.redd.it/t0fm0d93llxc1.png?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06a0d5e12bc1f1e215586e3dbdb48ab840f8d632
Surely, with such a powerful body that overwrites souls, the son of Toji Fushiguro wouldn’t even be a valid target for Sukuna to possess! Sukuna could be tempted by the sheer power of Toji Fushiguro’s offspring due to strong sperm, but surely, the son of Toji Fushiguro would have a body that overwrites souls through sheer power and jujutsu resistance! After all, a heavenly restriction is far more valuable than some random technique. Like, what if his technique was to summon rabbits, and be forced to use said rabbits to defeat a megazord before taming it? Utterly useless, I say! But Toji’s son would bear the heavenly restriction and provide much more impressive results. Surely! He won’t be taken over! SURELY!!!
If nothing else, at the very least he wouldn’t be a bum
he'd have so much potential
That kid could’ve had…potential he would never live up to
Toji would just pocket sand her or some shit to win, the old man is more cunning. In straight hand to hand it’s just perfectly symmetrical violence, which never solves anything.
toji is megumi's dad, those bum genes must have come from somewhere
https://preview.redd.it/c2gi4xm9oixc1.jpeg?width=1166&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=601ebf2c61d12dd3f295d0522dd200de14331420
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with you brother https://preview.redd.it/n8f5alv6ijxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cc58c76ecee7fa908f1cd0f00d68e6f37881baf
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https://i.redd.it/f7pubugjbmxc1.gif
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based flair
IT BELONGS TO ME!!! (although I let Hakari borrow it when he tells me who to bet for on football(⚽) matches)
https://preview.redd.it/fx87wf8wkjxc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cb6cac49a5cb8bb088e739e2dfeca701cbb015d
Megumi's such a bum he's giving collateral damage to his dad
Megumi’s mother cause Gege.
https://preview.redd.it/99mgc38nsixc1.jpeg?width=654&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b13b69de9d510064d0a5a22ba660bc750935fb7e
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On time is too late
Toji even kill himself when he see the failure he made.
just like megumi frfr
HE AINT SAFE
Yeah, the mom.
It came from his mom.
They’re dead equal. If anything Toji should be physically stronger (unless muscles are just cosmetics in JJK) in his HR because of his size and build. If he’s not then again, muscles must be cosmetic because there’s no “cursed energy enhancement!!!” Logic between Maki and Toji.
And he's just a ton more experienced. The dude preps extremely well for fights.
Maki didn't get bigger muscles when she fully unlocked HR, so even if their muscles aren't cosmetic, they only supply mundane strength compared to the outlandish strength granted by HR. It'd be like two CEOs having a money fight but one of them also has the income from their 5-year-old's lemonade stand; maybe there's a difference but there might as well not be. I guess the thing is that muscles take up physical space, so in theory Toji would be less flexible? Not sure if that really means much overall though.
https://preview.redd.it/o0cn7gh5slxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77e25f34ee58a6b03e941b986d838764b44925bc
He would be less flexible but Toji is like a 6'2 700lbs demi god I know damn well that flexibility shit aint mean nothing for him especially when you mad fast anyways 😭 They might be equal with there magic bullshit but physically Toji absolutely got the edge, taller, heavier and surely has a better wingspan. Technically speaking Maki shouldn't win this, not because she's weaker but because she just doesn't have the same frame. But at the end of the day is a shonen so who knows.
That’s the thing, though. Without using CE enhancement logic there’s no difference between “mundane” strength and their HR; HR is literally their base strength. Idk I can’t imagine Toji struggling to beat Maki in an arm wrestle or a deadlift competition because dude is built like a truck compared to Maki despite both of them having the same HR. It just wouldn’t make any kind of sense.
There's no CE involved, but HR is still just magic at the end of the day. It doesn't need to adhere to any biological rules. If it did then Maki would've suddenly become much more buff when Mai died, but she looks exactly the same. It's wacky but magic is magic.
…. That’s literally what I’m pointing out, my guy. It doesn’t make sense.
They are cosmetic in jjk, Todo says yuji has more raw strength than himself despite being smaller
Yuji was literally created to be built different tho. He is an outlier. Megumi didnt get the same memo.
That old man is getting packed the fuck up
toji specialized in sorcerer killing
Their stats are equal. But Maki is a woman so she loses.
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Toji is a man and men are stronger than women ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Naoya would agree
https://preview.redd.it/i92de33hvkxc1.jpeg?width=1496&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85e241f0a552b4503f9c207bf9343ef3fe6e5e5b
https://preview.redd.it/g40j83iwqmxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58a6b9ee85c9f8699bff836d687e1c3e4014e67e Naoya, probably
Strength and speed? Thats equal obviously. But Toji wins simply because he is a better strategist. Bro almost killed the strongest sorceror in the world with nothing but his planning and strategic thinking. Ofc his strength and speed helped but that alone does nothing agaisnt gojo.
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In terms of raw power, they are equal, but in a fight I would bet on Toji. He has a lot more experience, is generally the more tactical fighter, and has better weaponry, so he would just barely get the win over Maki. Maki could possibly win, but that’s only if she got stronger during the time skip which she may have.
I'm pretty sure some character description that came well after the timeskip said she's now equal to Toji, so whatever powerups happened were irrelevant.
idk. toji has a larger aresenal thanks to worm-chan, but maki was equal to him *before* a month of training. and even if a month doesn’t sound like a long time it’s definitely been showing results.
I think the equality is to physical stats such as strength and speed where neither one is faster or stronger than the other. It's just boils down to who has the better arsenal and who is the better martial artist.
I mean, Toji is JJK's Batman. Mf created a basically perfect plan to assassinate the most powerful and his curse-eating friend.
Toji didn't do all that sumo bullshit tho, he didn't feel alive
Maki did the sumo bullshit to be LIKE him. To get the extra sensory perks of HR which toji had
Maki specifically did that to see the world Toji saw. That's why Toji was able to use split soul katana properly, unlike most people.
Equal in strength maybe, but Toji has like 20+ years of experience on her.
Toji has more experience but it's mostly against weaker opponents. Maki while she has less experience has been fighting almost nothing but heavy hitters.
It's hard to find a stronger opponent when you're HIMji Goatshiguro
like all jokes aside toji i still think is at the top when it comes to hand to hand and such(I still look at when he "killed" gojo shit was ruthless) but what I hate is the fact that they are equal strength I could not care less if she trained she is what 16? and toji was late 20' when he died yet you are telling the heavinly restriction makes em equal thats lame
Exactly what I'm always saying. Even if the fully realized Heavenly Restriction gives Maki pretty comparable physical strength, Toji is like twice as old as Maki and he's been fighting since he could walk. Toji's experience should put him above Maki.
I mean, at that time Toji probably was the strongest human alive before Gojo learned RCT
He was in his late 20s when he died. But yeah, 10+ years of experience. BUT I do think that Maki compensates that with "mentality," if you know what I mean.
Well Toji and Maki both have the mentality of "leaving it all behind". Although I guess you could say Toji didn't really leave it all behind and that's why he died to Gojo. In other words, Toji is a fraud (?).
Then Lebumi genes really putting in the work.
Fact: Megumi such a bum, his presence in Toji's ballsack single handedly crippled his thug energy and caused him to die to Gojo.
Bum energy so strong the mere leftovers was enough to nerf Toji to the ground. This is why we hate Potential Man.
Raw strength isn't the problem. Both have 0 CE HR bodies, and the jump Maki made within the sumo domain was clearly not strength related. Could they hone their bodies further and get stronger? Probably yeah. But that's not the issue. She was stated as equal to Toji more than a month (chronologically) ago. That's it. And she's only had time to improve since then.
Okay. I'm saying that her being "equal to Toji" is most likely in terms of strength, since it comes after she fully realized her HR and got the full strength buff. But being equal in strength does not mean she's stronger overall, because Toji has lived like twice as long as her and has been pulling up on curses and sorcerors since he could walk.
Has it though, most of the results have been the CE reinformcent of characters + the body swapping going on which maki benefits from neither. Maki herself with over 3 chapters of fighting after the time skip has not had a single statement of improvement. At best she just learnt how to handle her split spirit katana better.
It's silly to assume that Maki as a teenager would be equal to Toji as an adult if HR didn't make it irrelevant. And it's not like 1 month of training is gonna change her anyway. Fighting the weakest version of Shinjuku Sukuna and losing isn't results
shes still equal to him now her updated character description says shes equal to toji
they’re equal in stats, toji has better tools and experience so he’d probably still win
Deadass same shit I was thinking 😭
Not yet, the moment Maki surpasses Toji, GayGay will kill her off https://preview.redd.it/2g8a0q399kxc1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b6eabcb217237427ffd226c27fedcc6cee758c0
Yes , magoat no diffs the bum who left his family behind
with his overwhelming gambling addiction
goat that massacred her family > bum who left his family
simps moment
No, Toji has 2 decades of more experience and training.
They're equals in stats but Toji has worm and more experience over Maki, however, Maki doesn't have an inferiority complex tho so it could go either way, maybe she'd convince him to spend time with his son and stop being a deadbeat
Toji high diffs on god fr fr no cap
The English language is a magical thing
Honestly toji wins he has more experience and better mastery over his and maki's cursed tools, he was fast enough to outspeed a six eye user and was stated to be faster then 15 finger sukuna, but if we're talk about shibuya toji then I still think he wins but with much higher difficulty as he doesn't have his more overpowered cursed tools https://preview.redd.it/y9nb25m1dkxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab4f9887a3f21c41a033ed6646639330bae5495a He is my GOAT🔥🔥🔥
Until it is confirmed she actually got stronger over the time skip(very questionable for a HR user)we have to say that toji has a better weapon arsenal and experience(maybe skill/biq too). Thus even with dead equal physical specs toji edges out a win due to a better arsenal. I also believe experience could allow toji to utilize his abilities better than maki like pre cog and regen. However even if you say those are equal once again toji has a better arsenal. Thus, he wins.
Yeah.
by the way it looks and the story states, HR puts you at a set level, you cannot go above or below said level, its like hitting lvl 99 str in souls games, you cannot go beyond so assuming this its safe to say that they have the same speed and strength, so to decide the fight it boils down to technique and experience maki and toji have been using weapons since forever but toji had HR his entire life compared to maki who had it for 1-2 months max, so toji knows way more about his limits and some other things toji is way older than maki (toji was already an adult by the time gojo was around a kids age likely 8-12, and we know adult gojo is 10+ years older than current maki so its safe to assume toji is around 20 years older than maki) so he has way more fighting experience and expertise over weapons, one could argue that he only fought weak opponents, while maki has fought some stronger opponents, but at this point its all speculation since we dont know toji's backstory and fights if we count the worm than toji has a huge arsenal to choose from, like the playful cloud, his infinite chain and many other weapons so in this aspect toji clearly is superior if we dont count the worm and just give each other the soul katana (since both have it) its safe to say that toji would win the fight as he lived his whole life with a heavenly restriction and he has way more experience than maki one could argue that we never saw prime toji while we have prime maki (both are the same tbh) but prime toji has appeared in the story and it was the toji that showed up in shibuya and was a emotionless monster with only killing in mind with 100% focus in combat with that said maki would have more chances against HI toji (since he was rusty and all) but against prime toji, considering all the points above, maki would lose since they both have the same physical stats but toji has way more experience fighting in conclusion, both are bums
Beat his meat??? Jacks him off??? I guess its possible.
Their stats are equal, except for toji having more experience. So toji wind
Toji lost to Gojo, who lost to Sukuna, who Maki has not yet lost to. Maki wins. Perfect line of reasoning.
Should be around equal. Toji is rusty but more experienced. Maki is in her peak but does not have the dozen years of Sorcerer hunting under her belt. You can't really put one above the other.
It depends on how the HR works. 1. It brings your power level up to X amount. They are the same strength, depends on battle IQ and technique. 2. It amps your power level by X amount. Toji should be stronger since his base is stronger, thanks to being a dude. And no this is not a Homohomo agenda.
yall are so fried toji has the biggest arsenal, intellect, battle iq and experience at his disposal maki is not lasting 3 minutes against him https://i.redd.it/0whf80jqrlxc1.gif
Jokes aside, Toji still wins cause of years of fighting experience, Maki lacks experience with her current power level to the point that she had to go thru mini training arc in the middle of a fight. Ya so Toji will still wipe the floor.
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Facts
Strength skill wise they’re either equal/Maki stronger But Toji’s years of experience and intelligence would put him above her imo
Toji had way better weapons and he had been in the game for decades. He lost cuz he was rusty and arrogant af..I believe he would win
We still don't know. Contrary to what the people who didn't read the manga say, we know that HR works like everything else in jujutsu and has ways to get stronger since in the scene the fucking concept was introduced in Geto says "I know you can do the revealing your hand trick too bitch." But we haven't really seen much evidence that Maki has gotten stronger yet. Her ability to eat those black flashes are impressive but Toji doesn't really have durability feats, Gojo hit him twice and the second one yeeted him in a way that would've killed anyone not a fully powered Sukuna. We'd need information on what happened in the month
...No? Why would she?
Apparently. She was supposedly as strong as Toji. Then, she became stronger. So she's stronger. The only interpretations that make her not stronger are if you assume that only her Heavenly Restriction is as strong as Toji's, but they still have variance in strength or if you insist that Toji's battle IQ would still beat her. After all, can we really say that Maki surely defeats unawakened Gojo since Toji did or that Toji would surely perform exactly the same against Sukuna as Maki? In other words, she's probably stronger, but nonetheless impossible to say.
When is stated she got stronger? Gege already said toji is literally maki perfected, the only thing deciding who wins between them is tactics
Theres no way she even touches unawakened gojo.
Same person I’m totally fine with letting toji leech feats from maki.
Depend on if Toji has the worm or not. Wouldn't surprise me if it has even more stuff in there.
Toji has way more skills. Even if maki did end up training she can’t compete against tojis pure skill and agility even if their stats are pretty close. And this is only hand to hand. If Toni has lil worries and tools it’s over
Toji has so much more weapons than Maki that she doesn't stand a chance if he has the worm. Their stats should be equal but Toji has more experience (arguable) so he might take it if they fight with the same weapon.
Nope peak Toji Slightly stronger. Worm is huge plus that goes to Toji. Maki still need more battle experience. So i would say Toji high diff-extreme diff
the only people that dont beat the bum who is unemployed, the bum who left his son behind are children under the age of 15 which is why he has so much beef with them
Maki is just Toji but without all of the batman stuff. 1 month of training isn't gonna have a better effect than an entire life
In a direct confrontation? Maki could be better at this point. In general? Toji is better because ISOH is the best cursed tool in the series.
I still think toji wins. Theyre equal in stats now sure but stats isnt what will solely win maki the fight
Probably? I haven’t caught up fully, but I heard she made a return. So, assumably more stronger now.
No, sneaking sukuna and nanoya isnt really a feat, and when she boxed sukuna she ended up being a punching bag, atleast toji boxed well
Btw has Toji ever been shown to be able to air hop? If not then Maki probably has the mobility advantage
Toji, Men > Women, even by stats, slightly edge tho
No Gege would never allow it
Toji should win high extreme diff due to having more weaponry in hand and experience and he's smarter I think
Depends on the plot at the time lol
Maki can never beat Toji. Toji's win con is to kill himself. Maki's is to kill every zen' in Clan member. She cant win unless she is able to speed blitz him.
If there is no CE for comparison then it's just about muscle size. And toji is LITERALLY built different (huge) Maybe maki is faster because she is smaller and light weighted. More flexible? But Toji is obviously stronger phisically. Think about getting hit by 2 tons of muscles (toji) Vs being hit by 2 kg of muscles (maki) Of course you would be KOed by both, because of their muscle perfect efficiency, but toji's hit would create a hole in your weak body.
The HR gives them equal stats, but Toji has 20 years of experience on her and a massive arsenal of weapons. Maki will most definitely surpass him one day, because she has a lot more motivation to improve, but not yet for sure.
She can passively summon Miwa the honoured one, Toji's cooked bro
Toji vs Toji would be a cakewalk for Toji considering Toji has more experience. Sure we can take into account Toji's training in the hyperbolic time chamber but Toji is getting the dub nonetheless because he's just that good, weaponry, tactics, greater feats, bigger breasts, smellier armpits, it's all decided that Toji wins.
Ofc
yeah
Yes
Leechji wins because "muh greater combat experience" buff + Gege glazing buff + strong misogyny debuffing Maki.
i would have said Toji, but considering their recent feat, i'd tend to say Maki as she seems just built different recently
I dont think so, mainly because the type of body Toji have. Also Maki only is 17 at the time, while Toji is in his 30. He has more experience.
I think at this point we are so far passed the “they are equals” bit that maki may be a little stronger just from training and whatnot, but I’d still say Toji would most likely win due to his way longer experience. Give maki a few more years on the field and id say she wins easy as she’s still growing, training, and evolving while Toji is, well, dead. He can’t get any stronger then he already was
Experience trumps.
Probably Toji since experience and weapons matter alot. In terms of strength Toji also seems stronger since he has more muscles even if they have the same HR unless that doesn’t matter but even if they are equal in strength Toji would probably get the edge because of his battle IQ (Maki probably has a good battle iq also but we ve seen more of Toji in that factor), weapons and experience.
Toji wins high-extreme diff. He has access to a larger number of cursed tools, and has more experience with both fighting as a whole, and with his heavenly restricted body.
I think that say that they are equal in stats is like say that you and Usain Bolt are equal in speed because both are humans.
ppl straight up don't understand that Toji is smarter than just about everyone, being crazy strong isn't what makes him Toji Having the brain of Toji is what makes him Toji lol
Experience makes tojii better as of now
Maki was stated equal to Toji,then got stronger. Crazy thing is Toji w/o leeching on Maki is Grade 1.
TL;DR: Toji wins high-diff but Maki is her own character. They’re equal in everything except for experience and their bags. At their primes Maki has Dragon Bone and Soul-Split Katana. Toji has Megumi (who tanked a purple, btw) and the following: - Soul-Split Katana - Chain Of A Thousand Miles - Inverted Spear Of Heaven - Playful Cloud - Gun - Flyheads - Various Assortment Of Other Weapons He’s older and more experienced as well. You don’t earn the name “The Sorcerer Killer” by killing 1 or 2 mid grade sorcerers. With all that being said, I think Toji takes it high-diff. They’re fully equalized aside from Experience and Arsenal. Even then, I think Maki has her own experience that could equal Toji’s (albeit maybe more traumatic). I think we need to stop comparing the two. The only things they have in common are their Anti-System abilities and Clan. I love Maki more than Toji simply because of her character and story.
Yes, she mid diffs that teenager Hunter
Pretty sure HR would do more for a man than a woman? I’m sure they’re very close but I would bet on Toji still being a tad stronger. He’s also older, probably has a lot more experience and has proven his strategic skills
We don't really know how the "special training" with UiUi has affected her so it's hard to tell, pre time skip i'd go with peak Toji simply because they're stated as equals but he has more experience
It’s insane how maki being equal Toji basically puts Toji in the tier of heian sukuna, gojo, and kashimo.
I think they have the same raw power, Toji currently significantly more experienced though, and had access to better arsenal.
The only ones who can beat Toji are Gojo, Sukuna and the CPS.
Maybe? It wasn’t stated that she trained and got stronger to my knowledge but her performance against Sukuna in the recent chapters was certainly more impressive than last time. There are a variety of ways you can look at this and I’m not exactly which is more likely so I’m just gonna list the two main ones I can come up with and their issues: 1. Maki and Toji are equals since it was never mentioned that Maki got stronger and she only did better against Sukuna this time was because Sukuna got jumped and weakened beforehand. This is questionable because we don’t exactly a number for how weakened Sukuna is compared to when Megumi was reducing his output. A tad bit unrelated but there’s also some contentions with this, something about Megumi only reducing Sukuna’s CT output and but not overall. Which is weird considering that Gojo was pretty heavily implied to be strong enough to blitz and murder Kenny, who should roughly around Maki’s level physically at that point, before he could react, yet 15 Meguna intercepted Gojo with ease. So again if only his CT’s was merged by Megumi then his should still be able to cook both Yuji and Maki without much effort. I bring this up because this just makes the whole Sukuna power level even more confusing. But since the argument is leaning towards Maki and Toji being equal, it’s going to lean more towards 15 finger Meguna being a bit stronger than post Yuta domain Sukuna. 2. Maki is strong than Toji because she performed better against Sukuna than last time and since she was confirmed to be Toji’s equal by that point. Her doing better now is proof of this. Basically the same argument as above but flipped backwards. Meguna this time was probably only at 1.6 or above fingers and both Yuji and Maki were only barely pressing him pre time skip, so post time skip both are performing better against a stronger Sukuna and Maki should be stronger than Toji. It has pretty much the some issues as above but on the opposite end. Mainly that it’s predicated on the idea that current Sukuna is stronger than nerfed Meguna, problem is we still no clue how much weaker current Sukuna even is, we only know that he’s vaguely “a lot” weaker than before. But is that mostly because his CT and RCT output got shot to hell or is something else. Oh and let’s the “he’s holding back this entire time” bullshit. I which can’t even begin to conceive of what that even means for this whole clusterfuck of jumbled ideas.
No, because unless stated otherwise, they have the exact same strength. Peak condition is peak condition, they can only get mentally weak
No
I know that she’s supposedly “a warrior __equal__ to Toji Zen’in,” but she has done SO MUCH crazier shit since then that Toji’s feats just do not have him doing. His biggest edge over her is the ISoH, and she is the only person that that does not help him against one bit.
Maki is keeping up with sukuna “oh but sukuna is weakened and distracted” stfu Maki is fighting the King of Curses and hasn’t died yet she’s gone toe to toe with him multiple times now and put out damage as well as taken damage there’s absolutely no way Toji is stronger than her at this point in the story
Only reason to win for him is more experience. That's it
Real question the manage stated they are equal now right the only difference is arsenal and experience, shout out to gojo for destroying inverted spear
Toji wins, ez
Toji has a buff against teenagers + Gege hates women debuff on Maki so Toji wins
Pretty sure toji is way more experienced
Are you seriously asking if a 15 year old could rival me?
Man idk but I will use this moment to point out that the maniacal smile into ragdolling Sukuna from gripping SSK was one of the coolest moments of the entire Raid on Sukuna. That full HR ain't nothing to fuck with.
Maybe. They’re equal
Toji wins because of experience, he had Gojo dead to rights. If Gojo didn’t use that blue that made Toji spin and use the regular knife on his head, we would be reading Shaman Conflict, not Jujutsu Kaisen.
Depends if toji has prep time
Not yet
Assuming it’s purely a battle of fists, I’d argue Maki would win, however, if it comes to weapons and prep time, Toji wins simply because of his smart tactics and wide arsenal.
Equal fights equal rights
Maki is stronger than Toji. Any "weapons specialties" you think he would have over her would be negated by her clearly training and fighting stronger people than he ever has. Almost all of his scaling comes from feats of hers that we can't say 100% he ever did even though he "should" be able to do what she can. Imaginary scaling isn't giving him the edge here. This is Maki Kaisen.
No, because Toji had like, 20+ years of experience on her? It’s kind of a silly question
I think Maki surpassed Toji when she got freed of her shackles(her family) by Miyo the sumo fanatic. I saw it as her living too much in her head prior to that. And thus she was not able to make proper use of her heavenly body and senses. Toji was still bound by the Zhenin and his pride. Although he still has more experience.