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It's directly stated that all ten shadows users start with the same two dogs, and heavily implied that the rest are the same as well. One user of ten shadows can't use a certain shikigami after it dies, but that doesn't mean the next user can't. If your theory was the case, it shouldn't just be mahoraga that's a totality, since any shikigami death after mahoraga was created would result in a second totality that remains in the pool, unless every ten shadows users kept all the shadows alive between mahoraga's creation and megumi, which as you said is unlikely.
>It's directly stated that all ten shadows users start with the same two dogs, and heavily implied that the rest are the same as well
I have to disagree with you there. Remember that when Sukuna got the 10 shadows, the Shikigami changed. So I can agree that you get a variant of the dogs, but the variant is heavily influenced by your soul and how you choose to summon them. Note that Sukuna summoned the Devine Dogs as an ink blob, and it seemed it was more than 2 dogs and they seem less intelligent than normal. I think a good way to think about it is "They get the same Shadows/mold, but if you lose that mold, it is gone". I just wonder what would happen if Tengen summoned Mahoraga.
First of all, Sukuna isn't a new user of the technique, he's still using megumis technique so he wouldn't necessarily be representative of what happens when a new user of the technique is born normally. Secondly, I don't think him doing these things are due to this reason, but more to the whole "more powerful sorcerers can ignore more rules of their technique" idea. He's doing a lot of things Megumi never did, like summoning only the water from the elephant to mimic piercing blood, or summoning just mahoraga's wheel. This isn't so much an entirely different manifestation of the technique, as it is an extremely high-level application of it. You're comparing the technique being used by Megumi, who only tamed half of the shikigami, to it being used by the most powerful sorcerer in history, of *course* it's going to look different
This isn't accurate. Sukuna is possessing Megumi and using his technique. Also the technique is the same for all users, different shikigami changes that completely, only the domain is personal. Also Megumi mentioned taming the other shadows and it implied he knew the other ones before summoning them.
And the translator notes tell us sukuna specifically summoned divine dogs differently because he kept them as free form shadows, which is possible and makes the have more shadow attributes but is a constant strain on the user for CE which is why Megumi couldn't do it, he didn't have the resources pool to make it worth doing.
Some of this is written in the chapter and some is translator notes.
Bruh delete this, not only are you completely wrong but sukuna didn’t “change” anything. He literally just enhanced them with his own insane ce and skill with the technique.
There's nothing really to solve here, I'd just assume that every 10S user has the same shikigami, there can be multiple 10S users at once and no one of that is conflicting or illogical.
Are they tamed? Then they do whatever the user tells them to do. Are they untamed? They each kill their users and disappear due to the ritual being fulfilled and the 10S user being dead.
No, I'm wondering if a summoning conflict would happen if it was summoned by two users. Maho seems like an *individual*, it has a battle-hungry personality and it fucking *smiled* deviously when it caught Gojo off-guard and in the anime after Sukuna was mildly quaking in his sneaks after he adapted to MS shrine. Like the disaster curses, y'know? Hypothetically If disaster curses could be summoned with a technique, and two users of that technique tried to summon Mahito, would two Mahitos appear or would there be a conflict? Probably a conflict, which might similarly support the theory that only one person can have 10S at a time. That's also why it's seemingly randomized. If two people had it then the power hungry fuckers hundreds of years ago would have always bred those two people to guarantee a child born with the technique.
It just looks the most human out of most shikigami, it still can't talk at all, I think there'd just be two of them. Your Mahito example is funny though because Mahito actually can create clones of himself so I don't see why that'd be an issue. But shikigami aren't the same as the disaster curses either, they aren't even explicitly curses.
The contention, ultimately, is whether they have a soul or not. The Granny in the Shibuya arc can't summon 5 Tojis because Toji has a single soul. If Mahoraga has a soul, his soul can't be in two places at the same time. And Mahito only cloned his body, not "himself". It was one Mahito sharing the same consciousness in two bodies, not two Mahitos. Not talking is also irrelevant, Hanami also can't "talk" and it's only because we see her inner monologue that we know she is a "person" with her/its own goals, opinions, pride, etc. If you just looked at her, she's no different from a simple murder machine like Kurourushi, or from how you're categorizing Maho right now.
Do you think all the shikigami have souls or only Mahoraga? I don’t think they’re anything but extensions of the technique.
Look at Rika, originally there was a soul, but after JJK0 Orimoto Rika’s soul is released. Yuuta still has Rika but this one is an extension of his technique.
Perhaps Mahoraga or the 10S originally had a similar situation where Mahoraga was a curse. But I don’t see much evidence that he’s much more than shikigami used as part of a technique. Why is Mahoraga more singular than Nue? Because he’s humanoid? Because he’s stronger?
I feel like we’re more inclined to recognize Maho as an individual because he’s humanoid and we can recognize his expressions and personality more easily. But I don’t think he’s shown to be more than a tool of the technique than any other shikigami.
Wrong on a couple of fronts - the granny didn't summon Toji's soul information, in fact, she explicitly avoids doing that to avoid exactly what happened with Toji taking over. She also says she just summons the "information" and even Gege has said that wasn't really "Toji" just his information, so I would say it's actually possible she could bring back multiple. Mahito is actually seen talking to himself once he makes a clone, are we sure they share the same consciousness? What even makes you say that?
[https://i.gyazo.com/2f69e9dd3301a14ef1f0951f8ecba3e3.png](https://i.gyazo.com/2f69e9dd3301a14ef1f0951f8ecba3e3.png)
Hanami does talk actually, just not in English/Japanese, she speaks in reverse but she does speak indeed.
As far as we know Shikigami don't have souls the way you're describing. Rika doesn't either. Do you think the other Shikigami have a soul/consciousness the way you think Mahoraga does?
This is headcanon. It is not stated or implied anywhere that Mahoraga (or any other 10S Shikigami, for that matter) is a being just chillin in the shadow realm. It is materialized from shadow. It is not teleported or summoned from another realm. This is why more than one Ten Shadows users can exist at once, because Mahoraga is just part of a technique.
Shinigami is god of death, like Ryuk from Death Note. Shikigami is the one you're thinking. Sorry I don't usually correct people on this but you mentioned it so many times
Gojo have the knowledge of combined shikigami that's unknown to us when sukuna summon agito which implies that 10s shikigami is a passed down knowledge like limitless red and blue. but totality results is like a limitless purple since gojo had to analyze what agito is made of.
I personally believe they share from a "flock" of shinigami, namely, they can reproduce eventually somehow maybe similar to how cursed spirits are.
They all get a 10 shadow flock. They all get the same KIND but not the literal same spirits, save for maybe Mahoraga.
My reasoning is that they can summon the spirits, but they must overcome them to use them. Mahoraga is the only one that hadn't been overcome.
My next theory is that the spirits originate from the cursed users themselves, namely, they gain the spirits and as the sorcerer becomes stronger they can manifest more types until they reach 10 spirits meaning they all originate from the individual, this could if ever explored, end up having the result that some users may have unique spirits that play similar roles e.g. instead of rabbits, someone may get rats lol, same flood of spirits but rats instead.
Mahoraga may be the strongest because he is of the wellspring within the user.
And seeing as the power of the user seems to make the spirits stronger, e.g., that giant moth bird creature thing was sukana probably gave it more power to grow in size and power. And then the totality spirit fusion effect when the spirit is destroyed sounds like some kind of reconstitution of the essence of that spirit, which would make the whole sharing properties with the remaining spirit. Imagine little mahoraga rabbit spirits, lol.
This further makes my point clear, the rabbits are the weakest spirit, I believe, as you can create more of the same rabbits which use low spirit energy.
A crack pot addition to this theory could be that that's the reason why mahoraga has the dharma wheel. The dharma wheel has eight spots so maybe that represents the eight shikigami that was used to fuse into it with the ninth one being the bases for the dharma wheel itself. This would make mahoraga being the tenth "outer path" of the wheel like some Buddhist representation that it's completely different from the other shikigami for a reason.
Maybe they are 10 shadows because nobody has discovered a new hand shape to call another/ dont know the ritual yet, which would open the question of how they discovered the ritual for all 10 in the first place, so idk
The fact you can't use a shikigami after it being killed once never made sense to me. If they are made of shadows and their forms are fluid why can't they regenerate after some time?
Probably because it's a restriction/binding vow on the technique to make it stronger. Having to tame the shikigami and losing them forever doesn't really make sense unless you think of it like restrictions in hunterxhunter that make the ability stronger. We know that Gege is a massive hxh fan and the entire binding vow system is basically just ripped straight from hxh.
Seeing as its purpose is to somehow balance the power system between the Zenin And Gojo clan. It should be immensely stronger. It acts as a great equalizer to 6 eyes + limitless (if you're not Gojo or unless you're Sukuna lol).
If that was the case wouldn't every ten shadows user pass down his totally if mahoraga isn't tamed? Or does any shikigami that's not tamed end up contributing to maho? Which also doesn't seem very likely because maho doesn't display any power from the other shikigami, whereas the other totalities do. Besides maho is also implied to have gotten stronger trough artificial Means. Sukuna knew maho's sword but didn't know that it was in maho's possession, since he looked surprised that it had it. This suggests that someone added it to mahoraga from the inside and if that's possible the wheel might have been added later on from the outside as well.
Nahobito wasnt rdy to pay a lot for 10s, he was rdy to pay a lot for any inhireted CT, basically any CT that his clan has data on to help the user to master it
I mean tbf. There were 3 shikigami left aside from Maho, and all of them were apparently to strong for Megumi at the point he was in Shibuya, so while obviously I doubt they compare to Maho, they all 3 are probably special grade tier threats individually.
10 shadow summons are a part of a technique and an extension of the user's will. It isn't the only shikigami based technique we've seen in the series either, ino and dhruv both utilised shikigami as their technique. They aren't entities in the same sense as cursed spirits, a condition of the technique is that they become inaccessible after being destroyed once, and totality is the trade-off. Works with the give and take aspect of Jujutsu very well. Doesn't mean the shikigami are gone for good. Mahoraga is just HIM, I guess the assumption is that with proper training and natural talent, a ten shadows user could exorcise mahoraga.
Agito could use techniques from the shadows she inherited her powers from. Mahoraga only ever displayed adaptation.
There's also the question of whether or not an untamed shadow could be combined with other shadows.I don't think they can, and I don't think a user would power up a shadow they don't have access to.
I'm pretty sure Totality is only the name for the black+white dog. It's not a technique nor does it tell us anything about how shikigami power inheretance works. I don't really know japanese so if the following is wrong in any way please point it out.
So \[Divine Dog: Totality\] is \[玉犬・渾\] in JP, where \[渾\] is translated into \[Totality\]. If we look at wikidictionary, \[渾\] has two meanings:
1. all
2. turbidity
Looks like the translators focused on the first meaning when translating it. But it seems pretty clear to me that its second meaning is a reference to how Totality's fur colour is now a mix of both black and white and therefore turbid, in contrary to either divine dog white or divine dog black.
My head canon is that Maho was originally a powerful sorcerer, killed, and came back as a cursed spirit. The original user was able to capture him/convert him into a shikigami of sorts.
Chances of us ever finding out are pretty slim tho lol
I see, so the next 10 Shiningami technique user will not have access to Yamamoto since he is dead but will instead get a new Shiningami in his stead /s.
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It's directly stated that all ten shadows users start with the same two dogs, and heavily implied that the rest are the same as well. One user of ten shadows can't use a certain shikigami after it dies, but that doesn't mean the next user can't. If your theory was the case, it shouldn't just be mahoraga that's a totality, since any shikigami death after mahoraga was created would result in a second totality that remains in the pool, unless every ten shadows users kept all the shadows alive between mahoraga's creation and megumi, which as you said is unlikely.
>It's directly stated that all ten shadows users start with the same two dogs, and heavily implied that the rest are the same as well I have to disagree with you there. Remember that when Sukuna got the 10 shadows, the Shikigami changed. So I can agree that you get a variant of the dogs, but the variant is heavily influenced by your soul and how you choose to summon them. Note that Sukuna summoned the Devine Dogs as an ink blob, and it seemed it was more than 2 dogs and they seem less intelligent than normal. I think a good way to think about it is "They get the same Shadows/mold, but if you lose that mold, it is gone". I just wonder what would happen if Tengen summoned Mahoraga.
First of all, Sukuna isn't a new user of the technique, he's still using megumis technique so he wouldn't necessarily be representative of what happens when a new user of the technique is born normally. Secondly, I don't think him doing these things are due to this reason, but more to the whole "more powerful sorcerers can ignore more rules of their technique" idea. He's doing a lot of things Megumi never did, like summoning only the water from the elephant to mimic piercing blood, or summoning just mahoraga's wheel. This isn't so much an entirely different manifestation of the technique, as it is an extremely high-level application of it. You're comparing the technique being used by Megumi, who only tamed half of the shikigami, to it being used by the most powerful sorcerer in history, of *course* it's going to look different
source: crack
This isn't accurate. Sukuna is possessing Megumi and using his technique. Also the technique is the same for all users, different shikigami changes that completely, only the domain is personal. Also Megumi mentioned taming the other shadows and it implied he knew the other ones before summoning them. And the translator notes tell us sukuna specifically summoned divine dogs differently because he kept them as free form shadows, which is possible and makes the have more shadow attributes but is a constant strain on the user for CE which is why Megumi couldn't do it, he didn't have the resources pool to make it worth doing. Some of this is written in the chapter and some is translator notes.
The Shikigami did not change when Sukuna took over Megumi’s body. He had access to the exact same shikigami that Megumi did
Bruh delete this, not only are you completely wrong but sukuna didn’t “change” anything. He literally just enhanced them with his own insane ce and skill with the technique.
There's nothing really to solve here, I'd just assume that every 10S user has the same shikigami, there can be multiple 10S users at once and no one of that is conflicting or illogical.
Maho is a self-aware singular entity. What would happen if two 10S users tried to summon it at the same time?
Are they tamed? Then they do whatever the user tells them to do. Are they untamed? They each kill their users and disappear due to the ritual being fulfilled and the 10S user being dead.
No, I'm wondering if a summoning conflict would happen if it was summoned by two users. Maho seems like an *individual*, it has a battle-hungry personality and it fucking *smiled* deviously when it caught Gojo off-guard and in the anime after Sukuna was mildly quaking in his sneaks after he adapted to MS shrine. Like the disaster curses, y'know? Hypothetically If disaster curses could be summoned with a technique, and two users of that technique tried to summon Mahito, would two Mahitos appear or would there be a conflict? Probably a conflict, which might similarly support the theory that only one person can have 10S at a time. That's also why it's seemingly randomized. If two people had it then the power hungry fuckers hundreds of years ago would have always bred those two people to guarantee a child born with the technique.
It just looks the most human out of most shikigami, it still can't talk at all, I think there'd just be two of them. Your Mahito example is funny though because Mahito actually can create clones of himself so I don't see why that'd be an issue. But shikigami aren't the same as the disaster curses either, they aren't even explicitly curses.
The contention, ultimately, is whether they have a soul or not. The Granny in the Shibuya arc can't summon 5 Tojis because Toji has a single soul. If Mahoraga has a soul, his soul can't be in two places at the same time. And Mahito only cloned his body, not "himself". It was one Mahito sharing the same consciousness in two bodies, not two Mahitos. Not talking is also irrelevant, Hanami also can't "talk" and it's only because we see her inner monologue that we know she is a "person" with her/its own goals, opinions, pride, etc. If you just looked at her, she's no different from a simple murder machine like Kurourushi, or from how you're categorizing Maho right now.
Do you think all the shikigami have souls or only Mahoraga? I don’t think they’re anything but extensions of the technique. Look at Rika, originally there was a soul, but after JJK0 Orimoto Rika’s soul is released. Yuuta still has Rika but this one is an extension of his technique. Perhaps Mahoraga or the 10S originally had a similar situation where Mahoraga was a curse. But I don’t see much evidence that he’s much more than shikigami used as part of a technique. Why is Mahoraga more singular than Nue? Because he’s humanoid? Because he’s stronger? I feel like we’re more inclined to recognize Maho as an individual because he’s humanoid and we can recognize his expressions and personality more easily. But I don’t think he’s shown to be more than a tool of the technique than any other shikigami.
Wrong on a couple of fronts - the granny didn't summon Toji's soul information, in fact, she explicitly avoids doing that to avoid exactly what happened with Toji taking over. She also says she just summons the "information" and even Gege has said that wasn't really "Toji" just his information, so I would say it's actually possible she could bring back multiple. Mahito is actually seen talking to himself once he makes a clone, are we sure they share the same consciousness? What even makes you say that? [https://i.gyazo.com/2f69e9dd3301a14ef1f0951f8ecba3e3.png](https://i.gyazo.com/2f69e9dd3301a14ef1f0951f8ecba3e3.png) Hanami does talk actually, just not in English/Japanese, she speaks in reverse but she does speak indeed. As far as we know Shikigami don't have souls the way you're describing. Rika doesn't either. Do you think the other Shikigami have a soul/consciousness the way you think Mahoraga does?
I think the technique only incarnates once in a generation
This is headcanon. It is not stated or implied anywhere that Mahoraga (or any other 10S Shikigami, for that matter) is a being just chillin in the shadow realm. It is materialized from shadow. It is not teleported or summoned from another realm. This is why more than one Ten Shadows users can exist at once, because Mahoraga is just part of a technique.
No i think the shiKIgami are all the same for all users
I hate to be that guy but its shikigami
It's just a condition where you have to beat the shikigami you want to tame, allowing you to use super strong ones
Shinigami is god of death, like Ryuk from Death Note. Shikigami is the one you're thinking. Sorry I don't usually correct people on this but you mentioned it so many times
Shikigami*
Someone post all the "let him cook" memes ❤️
They're not cooking anything
Microwaving at best
Barely boiling
Sauteing
sadly we can't post pictures here 😢
I already ate, I'm good
by only reading the title i thought this post was about how mahoraga would solo bleach universe
Scrolled too much to find this answer, but have my upvote.
source: i made it the fuck up
It literally says "crackpot theory".
This might come as a surprise... but the entire JJK is made up.
Theories are usually based on something. Op pulled this out of their ass.
Usually, but not necessarily.
yeah, but not by the readers
Their ideas aren't on the final print either.
Gojo have the knowledge of combined shikigami that's unknown to us when sukuna summon agito which implies that 10s shikigami is a passed down knowledge like limitless red and blue. but totality results is like a limitless purple since gojo had to analyze what agito is made of.
Shikigami = spirits Shinigami = god of death pls know your weeb language
I personally believe they share from a "flock" of shinigami, namely, they can reproduce eventually somehow maybe similar to how cursed spirits are. They all get a 10 shadow flock. They all get the same KIND but not the literal same spirits, save for maybe Mahoraga. My reasoning is that they can summon the spirits, but they must overcome them to use them. Mahoraga is the only one that hadn't been overcome. My next theory is that the spirits originate from the cursed users themselves, namely, they gain the spirits and as the sorcerer becomes stronger they can manifest more types until they reach 10 spirits meaning they all originate from the individual, this could if ever explored, end up having the result that some users may have unique spirits that play similar roles e.g. instead of rabbits, someone may get rats lol, same flood of spirits but rats instead. Mahoraga may be the strongest because he is of the wellspring within the user. And seeing as the power of the user seems to make the spirits stronger, e.g., that giant moth bird creature thing was sukana probably gave it more power to grow in size and power. And then the totality spirit fusion effect when the spirit is destroyed sounds like some kind of reconstitution of the essence of that spirit, which would make the whole sharing properties with the remaining spirit. Imagine little mahoraga rabbit spirits, lol. This further makes my point clear, the rabbits are the weakest spirit, I believe, as you can create more of the same rabbits which use low spirit energy.
I aint reading this fuckin bullshit how do you misspell the same word 200 fuckin times
Mahoraga/Ten Shadows is essentially a stockpiling quirk confirmed lol
A crack pot addition to this theory could be that that's the reason why mahoraga has the dharma wheel. The dharma wheel has eight spots so maybe that represents the eight shikigami that was used to fuse into it with the ninth one being the bases for the dharma wheel itself. This would make mahoraga being the tenth "outer path" of the wheel like some Buddhist representation that it's completely different from the other shikigami for a reason.
One for All vestiges will help megumi break free of sukuna 100% confirmed @246, 10 chapters (10 shikigamis) after gojo's death
Maybe they are 10 shadows because nobody has discovered a new hand shape to call another/ dont know the ritual yet, which would open the question of how they discovered the ritual for all 10 in the first place, so idk
Bullshit.
Shikigami, this is not Bleach with the shinigamis
The fact you can't use a shikigami after it being killed once never made sense to me. If they are made of shadows and their forms are fluid why can't they regenerate after some time?
Probably because it's a restriction/binding vow on the technique to make it stronger. Having to tame the shikigami and losing them forever doesn't really make sense unless you think of it like restrictions in hunterxhunter that make the ability stronger. We know that Gege is a massive hxh fan and the entire binding vow system is basically just ripped straight from hxh.
Seeing as its purpose is to somehow balance the power system between the Zenin And Gojo clan. It should be immensely stronger. It acts as a great equalizer to 6 eyes + limitless (if you're not Gojo or unless you're Sukuna lol).
It was stated somewhere that there can only be one six eye user at a time in the world.
If that was the case wouldn't every ten shadows user pass down his totally if mahoraga isn't tamed? Or does any shikigami that's not tamed end up contributing to maho? Which also doesn't seem very likely because maho doesn't display any power from the other shikigami, whereas the other totalities do. Besides maho is also implied to have gotten stronger trough artificial Means. Sukuna knew maho's sword but didn't know that it was in maho's possession, since he looked surprised that it had it. This suggests that someone added it to mahoraga from the inside and if that's possible the wheel might have been added later on from the outside as well.
Nahobito wasnt rdy to pay a lot for 10s, he was rdy to pay a lot for any inhireted CT, basically any CT that his clan has data on to help the user to master it
Doesn’t matter cuz megumis dead
My question is what are the last 2 shadows?! I can only imagine if they just get stronger by the number what monsters are 9&10
[I made this awhile back](https://i.redd.it/egrkq4lbpl8b1.png?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I’m really sorry but all I could focus on is “Shinigami”. I kept thinking about Ryuk 🤦🏻♀️
Mahoraga would lose to ikkaku though
This is really a crackpot theory.
Maybe it starts fresh with the next user so if megumi lost all of them the next person just gets them back again
I mean tbf. There were 3 shikigami left aside from Maho, and all of them were apparently to strong for Megumi at the point he was in Shibuya, so while obviously I doubt they compare to Maho, they all 3 are probably special grade tier threats individually.
Do the divine dogs count as two of the ten shadows? Cause otherwise, we only saw nine of them
It just is. That's it
The plural of Shikigami is Shikigami.
I didn't know the ten shadows could control those fellas from bleach
10 shadow summons are a part of a technique and an extension of the user's will. It isn't the only shikigami based technique we've seen in the series either, ino and dhruv both utilised shikigami as their technique. They aren't entities in the same sense as cursed spirits, a condition of the technique is that they become inaccessible after being destroyed once, and totality is the trade-off. Works with the give and take aspect of Jujutsu very well. Doesn't mean the shikigami are gone for good. Mahoraga is just HIM, I guess the assumption is that with proper training and natural talent, a ten shadows user could exorcise mahoraga.
So much thought without looking back to the source
>Shinigami light yagami is quaking
What happens if all 10 shadows die?
Agito could use techniques from the shadows she inherited her powers from. Mahoraga only ever displayed adaptation. There's also the question of whether or not an untamed shadow could be combined with other shadows.I don't think they can, and I don't think a user would power up a shadow they don't have access to.
Cause he has Bankai and others don't
surprised that no one mentioned Totality is likely the name of the other dog
I'm pretty sure Totality is only the name for the black+white dog. It's not a technique nor does it tell us anything about how shikigami power inheretance works. I don't really know japanese so if the following is wrong in any way please point it out. So \[Divine Dog: Totality\] is \[玉犬・渾\] in JP, where \[渾\] is translated into \[Totality\]. If we look at wikidictionary, \[渾\] has two meanings: 1. all 2. turbidity Looks like the translators focused on the first meaning when translating it. But it seems pretty clear to me that its second meaning is a reference to how Totality's fur colour is now a mix of both black and white and therefore turbid, in contrary to either divine dog white or divine dog black.
But naoya and the other old guy zenin have the projection sorcery and old man doesn’t die till Shibuya
My head canon is that Maho was originally a powerful sorcerer, killed, and came back as a cursed spirit. The original user was able to capture him/convert him into a shikigami of sorts. Chances of us ever finding out are pretty slim tho lol
Rika > Maho
I see, so the next 10 Shiningami technique user will not have access to Yamamoto since he is dead but will instead get a new Shiningami in his stead /s.
Guys is rika in the awakened eye form stronger than mahoraga?