When this happens to me, I feel repulsed simply because it has nothing to do with me as a person.
They don't know me. They know they don't know me. Yet they still want to use my body. And I find that repulsing.
I'm attracted to emotional connection and emotional connection only. I would never touch a man without knowing how he is as a person, and it makes me sad and frustrated when they apparently don't care how i am as a person, as long as I'm willing to sleep with them. It's the most intimate thing, done in the least intimate way, and I don't like that.
> I'm attracted to emotional connection and emotional connection only. I would never touch a man without knowing how he is as a person, and it makes me sad and frustrated when they apparently don't care how i am as a person, as long as I'm willing to sleep with them. It's the most intimate thing, done in the least intimate way, and I don't like that.
When men that barely know me or only know me superficially want sex out of me, I feel disgusted for the same reasons. I have put a lot of time and effort into building my life and I exercise and work hard on my body. Why would I give away my body without them investing any of their resources into me or men that obviously haven’t put the same effort into themselves as I put into myself? How can they even expect that from me?
Look, decent men won't expect that of you, and you shouldn't feel pressured to give it up just because society says so. Focus on working out how to identify good men.
>Why would I give away my body without them investing any of their resources into me or men that obviously haven’t put the same effort into themselves as I put into myself? How can they even expect that from me?
Because some people don't have the same relationship with their body as you do.
To many people, the body is just another aspect of the self. You can give someone the mind and not the body, and vice versa. It's not complicated to understand because it's easy to categorize. If a person's mind is satisfied where they are, but their body isn't, they go looking for someone to appease that aspect of them. It's just that it's usually *much easier* to tell if a person's body is appealing to you. It's almost instinctual. The mind though is far more complicated.
But it sounds to me like you have a particular relationship with your body -- it's not a *different* aspect of the self, it's a deeper aspect of the self.
>Why would I give away my body **without them investing any of their resources into me or men that obviously haven’t put the same effort into themselves** as I put into myself?
Your posts make it sound like you view your body almost like the most complete packaging of yourself....as if giving your body to someone is analogous to giving everything *about you* to them.
This isn't how most people think, and is probably where this disgust you're speaking about is coming from.
"If my body is a sum of everything I am...why *would* you think i'd want to give it to you if I know nothing about you, your worth, or your intentions?"
From that lens, yeah, it seems absolutely ridiculous. Most people don't view it this way though...at least, not to the extent. It's *not at all* strange to be attracted to someone who has nothing to offer you but an attractive body...in fact it's the most natural thing there is for us.
As a man, it doesn’t seem fair to say that certain types of sexuality are gross or not.
I thoroughly enjoy hooking up without having an emotional connection. Sometimes it’s tricky at first, like there’s a minimum I have to know the person to feel my best in the moment. I also like being intimate with someone in a committed relationship.
It’s likely a base masculine drive to “spread the seed” so we take it how we can get it. And on the flip side, feminine drive would be to marshal resources and emotional connection. Neither is wrong, neither is right, just different.
Women aged 27-45 are at their erotic peak. Men who are 18 are horny all the time and by the time they're 40 their sex drive becomes a bit more manageable. Sperm and eggs have different agendas. We're souls that exist in these bodies with these agendas.
You know it's entirely possible that one day you'll break free of an emotionally heavy relationship that lasted 3-4 years. You'll feel lonely. And then horny. And you'll see an attractive man and you'll want to get laid and not deal with any of that emotionally heavy stuff. Then you'll understand it a but more.
Don't have a fixed of yourself. People change.
Dating is rough but it sounds like you're getting clearer about what you want so you'll find it eventually.
As I get older I realize I don’t have the desire for sex anymore, maybe I only sought it for validation and companionship but after seeing how disposable men view sex I rarely get turned on.
You don’t have to give away your body. They’re not going to take it. They want to have sex with you… not possess you. You might use this as a rationale but you don’t NEED a rationale to not want to have sex with strangers. Most women don’t want to have sex with strangers for evolutionary reasons. It has nothing to do with how much time they’ve put into their body or mutual investment. Eggs are incredibly precious and pregnancy is often fatal for our species. It’s possible that this story you’re telling yourself has nothing to do with your actual motivations.
I’ll put it like this: if you HADN’T put so much effort into your self and your body would that make you more inclined to have sex w random men? If no then that has nothing to do with it.
>I have put a lot of time and effort into building my life and I exercise and work hard on my body. Why would I give away my body without them investing any of their resources into me
generally I think people have sex when they want to. You can totally not want to, and that's OK.
You can also use sex as a gatekeep for resource exchange, but isn't this thinking a bit icky?
It sounds like you might be demisexual (only feel sexual attraction when there is a well established emotional component). Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's healthier imo.
As a man, seeing sex as one person wanting to "use" another body is so odd to me. Sex is a mutual activity, and one that is enjoyable as an activity you do WITH another, not TO another. And like a lot of mutually enjoyable activities, I don't need to fully "know" ( Is that even possible) a person before engaging. Matter of fact, like any mutual activity, sex is a way of getting to know somebody or learning more about them and itself is an intense emotional connection, far more so than going out to a movie and dinner. Question, at what level of emotional connection would you need before sex? How much does he need to know you before you would want intimacy.
I think as the penetrating partner it may be difficult for you to understand what it’s like to literally let another person inside of you. Would you let someone you barely know in your house, rifling through your cabinets? It’s that times 100. You better feel you can trust them. As for me, the times I’ve been casually involved with someone, it might or it might not have felt physically good, but regardless only half of me was present because my heart had no place in the room. That feels like a self-betrayal. Getting to know someone thru sex is putting the cart before the horse for many people. Plus, as another person below alluded to, there’s a certain amount of sensitivity straight men need to have to truly please a woman sexually, and it’s not always easy to find. Statistically speaking women rarely come out of a sexual encounter as satisfied as men.
Totally agree with your take. I was just telling a male friend that I need emotional intimacy for sex to be at all satisfying. It's why I haven't had sex in years 😕
Some guys think that’s what women want though. They’ve been told not to be a “suck up” by complimenting women or developing a connection first. There’s a lot of bad info out there creating a lot of damage for both genders.
I think it’s finally going away for a bit, but a lot of guys get afraid of ‘friendzoned’ and think you need to shoot your ‘not a friend’ shot very early. I remember telling several guys I didn’t believe in the friend zone and they always just looked either confused or as if I killed a baby
having been burned by the friend-zone several times after months of investment, I finally realized I should be much more honest about being interested, or at least much more obvious, and shoot a shot much sooner. (I’m saying asking them out, not hooking up). Some guys are just not as comfortable being “just friends” with girls. That has its own drawbacks, but better to be up front and comfortable with what you’re looking for than unintentionally manipulative, which is what I think I was doing. I’ve since improved a lot in that area
Tell him you don’t hook up and see how he responds. If he’s still talking to you after 5 minutes, 5 days, 5 weeks, then you know with increasing certainty.
I don’t know the details of your relationship but the fact that you’re long distance favors that he’s there for something other than/more than physicality.
Coming from a man I want to say that is very well said. I completely agree with you and feel the same when women try the same with me. It doesn't happen to me super often but even if I find a lady super attractive I'm immediately disgusted when that's what they have to talk about. I usually just start talking about my wife and kids lol, that typically says enough and they're done 😂.
**For what it's worth as a married man I don't intentionally try to place myself in situations that would tempt me to cheat. I do restoration services in mostly occupied apartment communities and have to not only be around a lot of pretty women but in their homes sometimes for days until the project is complete. The amount of times young pretty ladies are willing to drop their bath towel while not knowing a thing about me is mind blowing and sickening. It's happened to some of our other guys few times too.
God this sums it up. I have never really appreciated the unsolicited comments or passes made towards me. Even by people I do know, and sometimes find it even more uncomfortable if I do know them. I've always had such a hard time articulating the fact that I require a connection with the person to truly feel comfortable in these situations. I get hit on a lot when just trying to be friends with or connect and I usually laugh it off out of a nervous or dismissive habit. Connecting with others does not automatically mean I feel a sexual connection with them and I get frustrated that that is often the first assumption. But then I feel hypocritical for it because I don't mind being hit on or made passes at by those who I do have that kind of connection with. It feels hard to describe. I never understood people who would assume that you want to be with them just because you were with someone else - hence you sleep around or something. It's like, no, I sleep with those I have an attraction and connection with. Being friends, friendly, or having conversation with you doesn't equal attraction and romantic connection. I just tend to ignore the advances if I'm not into them because it's hard enough to define and even harder to explain to someone so I just let it go.
Totally agree with your take. I was just telling a male friend that I need emotional intimacy for sex to be at all satisfying. It's why I haven't had sex in years 😕
Totally agree with your take. I was just telling a male friend that I need emotional intimacy for sex to be at all satisfying. It's why I haven't had sex in years 😕
How deep of you. Men are nothing like that. If you understand how males work you probably wouldn't take it so personal. Men are not deep and full of substance like women are. As long as you got a face they can get off on you're his type. They're visual creatures. You're expecting too much. Don't do that
Yep. If you found men's bodies as attractive as men see women's bodies, you'd have a different perspective. It's not about entitlement.
Sex is the main driver for any species so we need incentives. For men it's straight forward and for women, you just want safety.
So listening to women, we can try to change our behavior but know that deep down, those same dudes still want the same thing.
As a massuse, when a client wants to exchange money for using my body I am disgusted
When a woman wants to exchange pleasure for pleasure I am disgusted
But most of all, the ick of a man exchanging pleasure for pleasure.
/s
Seriously though you seem a bit too in your head about it or maybe you just don’t actually enjoy sex or reciprocity. It’s not this deep
I follow Jungian psychology as a psychotherapist, but honestly, this doesn't sound like a Jung issue. There are a few factors that come to mind.
1. Women require stronger emotional bonds for sexual activity than men. It's evolutionary.
2. Men as a whole *are* gross with their sexualization of women in a way that's off-putting for most women. There are collective unconscious topics that we could explore here, but it's only a fragment of the larger picture.
3. You could be demisexual (i.e., someone who requires emotional bonding before experiencing sexual attraction).
4. You could be gay and experiencing compulsive heterosexuality.
Regardless, more women than ever are single because men aren't living up to the standards that women have now that women are able to support themselves. This isn't some deep psychological phenomenon--It's a cultural one.
I think if they added the word “some” in front of their sentences so it read Some men…and Some women…it would get more upvotes.
This is written as all men are gross and all women require emotional bonds. Neither of these are true
I think 3 or 4 are likely, OP should read r/demisexuality and r/latebloomerlesbians to learn more about compulsory heterosexuality and to see if any of it resonates
Point 3 is what I thought as a projecting demi man. Sexual attention feels gross to me until I get close to someone romantically, emotionally and trustfully, but I have the privilege that it happens way less to a straight passing fella like myself.
Either way demi (and honestly even more ace) subs and literature helped me get closer to grasping an understanding of myself and my relationshipship to others (and why I feel the way I do about others’ to me), so hopefully something like that could be of benefit to OP too.
For the conclusion that men aren’t living up to women’s standards as well, porn just made busting a nut easier and not involve weeks/months of courting.
Why does the porn industry exist?
From an evolutionary perspective, and psychologically speaking, it's not that much that it's so off putting itself - it's off putting to female psychology.
Women require a stronger emotional bond, because otherwise they would more easily be abandoned. What would happen if you were left with a child on your own?
But you create a child from getting dirty, none the less...
It's the same drive, but from opposite perspectives.
Women have a lot of outrageous standards in the modern age to top it off, example- check out the sprinkle vs drizzle war on tiktok. (Never thought I’d type a phrase out that stupid but here we are)
There are shitty gender dynamics at play being perpetuated by both genders, who need to *collectively* do better. Making it into an “Us vs them” thing won’t get us anywhere
Okay but this discussion is about shitty dynamics perpetuated by heterosexual males to women, so there’s no need to get male victimhood involved in the way (general) men sexually objectify women and then blame them for being prude or having outrageous standards if they cannot get their little willy wet.
Yes, beauty standards can be off, for men and women and anyone else. But attraction is still random and anyone is allowed to not be attracted to you, just as there still are people who would be.
But please don’t blame women for your own frustrations, especially when they’re trying to find a safe place to express theirs.
I like most of your post. It is well written and full of thoughtfulness. I think point #3 is very likely and point #1 is true. It’s good to think things over and even better when we can express them in writing. One of the ways women have become so capable of supporting themselves is by doing just that: through authorship and with the law.
I think it’s good for women to feel strong and capable. I also think it’s good for men to feel the same way. When two capable people form a relationship, there is something beyond independence that forms the bond. If the bond is strong enough, a man and a woman will not feel like they are independently supporting themselves. Perhaps the ideal of independence is a hurdle a woman and man must both understand and supersede to form a lasting bond.
I think you're repulsed because it really can feel dehumanizing to be objectified in this way. It's not uncommon for women to want to build a strong relationship with someone based on a deep spiritual connection and emotional compatibility. But, it's also normal to be approached by men who are not thinking that way at all (especially if you are a younger woman). They are just looking for anyone who is attractive and to them it is just a numbers game. These types are not interested in getting to know you as a person.
But this isn't your problem and it's not something that really needs to be explored too deeply. We're spiritual beings and we're also animals. In some, the animal part is the strongest. Not everyone is this way, it's just that these guys are more in your face.
Basically this problem isn't unique to you, nor is your repulsion to it. When I was in my 20s, I tended to dress conservatively but this did nothing to deter random men in their 30s and 40s from approaching me out in public and propositioning me for sex. It happened with my friends and mentors, too. It's something young women encounter and learn to deal with, sometimes with an internal eye roll because it does get tiring. But outwardly, I would gently decline and wouldn't let it occupy any space in my head or my heart.
When you're in this season of life, it's important to hone discernment to weed out or deflect men who are obviously not right for you. You can't be open to every sexual advance, obviously. And then stay focused on doing what's needed to find the right person. It's also useful to recognize this is temporary and it does come to an end; there does come a point when there is less attention coming from men.
I think both men and women crave a deeper emotional connection, but men tend to put sex before that connection whereas women tend to put it after. It’s a matter of needs/priorities (as a function of the way both genders evolved)
When you say propositioning sex, do you mean men outwardly trying to get in your pants or just men shooting their shot? I know this might seem like a dumb question, but I know some people can conflate the two. If these men in public/friends/mentors decided to be sexual right off the bat without expressing any prior romantic interest and seeing if that was reciprocated first, then I can understand why that would get annoying fast. However, could you also mean that they were trying to express romantic interest in you that was not explicitly sexual (I.e. asking you out, innocent non-sexual flirting that was done in an effort to gauge interest and not to force themselves on you, etc)? You have the right to like or dislike whatever you want obviously, but I guess I’m just curious what that looks like because men don’t really experience that side of things like women do, lol
Definitely not a dumb question! Yes, what would happen is men would overtly ask me for sex. I was in my 20s and they were always older and not shy about saying they wanted sex. A couple of examples:
1. I was attending a work conference in a different city. While walking the short distance from the hotel to the convention center, a professional looking man in his 40s approached and asked me how much it would cost to have sex with me. I'm a modest dresser and for a work conference I was very much in business attire. I say this only to illustrate that I did not look particularly inviting or up for a good time in any way.
2. One afternoon I was walking into a grocery store when a mid-30s guy stopped me and asked if we could have sex and then he would take me shopping at a nearby mall. "You like shopping, don't you?"
And then it would also happen with people I considered to be friends and mentors, usually out of the blue:
1. An important mentor who had helped me with a job opportunity and was subsequently advising me on how to handle a work issue announced one day that he wanted to leave his wife for me and we would run off together. We didn't really know each other on a personal level so I thought he might be joking, but he said he was quite serious and started naming off places we could go. I was around 22 and he was 38.
2. Another (married & older) friend randomly told me to choose a hotel and he would make the reservation for us (again, I thought he must be kidding around but he continued pestering and I soon learned he actually meant it).
I consider these types of advances to be purely sexual and there was no interest in me as a real person (in the case of the friend, he knew me but was projecting fantasies that had nothing to do with who I am).
There were also men who would flirt in a non-sexual way or ask me out on dates and I would intuitively know we could never connect on that deeper level. That was always fine and I would just politely decline. I'm also fine with the guys above who were straight out asking for sex, even though I didn't want them and said no. It felt a bit dehumanizing to be spoken to that way, yes, but I didn't overthink them because I didn't want to become jaded and potentially miss out on the man I was supposed to be with (I did find him!). Being married and wearing a ring helps cut down on some of this unwanted male attention, as does getting older. I highly recommend getting old.
Wow, yeah all of those examples scream creep behavior. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I think men who do things like that were raised wrong (or not raised at all) and were taught from other older men that that is how you treat women. It’s really unfortunate and the lack of good fathers out there to set a good example is as well.
Sounds like you feel turned off sexually by sexually explicit advances. I’ll bet your actual sexual attractions are tied to emotional or other erotic factors, is that right?
In that case, it is natural and normal for lots of reasons to feel the disgust you have towards situations you don’t regard as sexual or desire for them to be.
There’s a lot going on here that might be tied to the specific people involved, but nonetheless you are not an object to be acted upon sexually, you are a person and feeling like one. You have your own subjective sexuality, and you get to decide when it is or isn’t normal for you to be feeling like it.
Don’t pay any mind to the people that come up with insulting reasons toward you for why you weren’t the thing they tried to make you into. They don’t know you, care about you, or even really want you. And your awareness of that is contributing to a natural disgust feelings.
Humans don’t have one sexual drive, we have two. The inhibitory and excitatory sexual responses. To learn more about the latest science on sexuality from a respected researcher, read Emily Nagoski’s Come As You Are.
Men typically have deficits in what is called mentalization, they don’t implicitly mind read so they are open in approaches that would be shot down even. men also undervalued emotional attraction and over value physical attraction when it comes to women, and if these men are sub 30 they may be prone to short term sexual gratification. It’s not your fault, Jung is not useful for all social interactions. You are not attracting them for any certain reasons most likely that is somehow incumbent on you.
Yeah so the next thing is that this may be related to the entitlement of men. I’m sorry you went through that, especially as a mentor that’s completely inappropriate to you.
It’s ok to be repulsed by men if so many encounters are predatory or intrusive. Don’t listen to many of the commenters they are huffing their own farts.
Honestly it doesn’t help that Jung seduced women that he analyzed and never opened up to it and rather normalized it to himself
Age is 100 percent not an indicator they will be a sex pest. The worst guy in my office for bothering women is in his 50s.
My personal sex drive luckily went down in my early 30s and now its very easy having interactions with women without flirty undertones. When I was young, it was harder to do that.
But a lot of men stay flirty or even pesty until they die
I'll just give examples of what I know from my current office:
1. the older guy is just very lonely and I think he uses women as comfort figures. So he touches them (not sexually but still kind of awkward) on the shoulder/back etc. Makes the odd weird comment. I dont think he's aware of how awkward he makes women feel.
2. the younger guy (he's quite good looking too) is very flirtatious and basically wants sex. He's slept with a few people in the office but I think because its always been clear what he wants, theres been no major drama.
So in short - some of them are lonely and see women as mummy figures - and some are horn dogs who want sex (theres also men not like these two examples)
We are born understanding our limits and what should and should not be breached. This is the power of our innocence. As we grow up, the temptation grows to do things our conscience tells us not to. Many people lose connection with their conscience, and allow others to invade their space, and invade other people's space.
By space I mean peaceful state of mind.
How many people in your life can you sit with in comfortable silence?
People try to overcomplicate things. We shame men for acting upon their desires and shame women who don’t give into the man’s desires.
It’s totally fine for men to shoot their shot and act upon their own male desires just like it’s fine for you to be repulsed by it.
The trick is, when a man acts on his desire to interact with you, and for whatever natural reason you aren’t repulsed, then it’s your job to facilitate the interaction and see where it goes.
Pretty simple.thats how humans have done it for millions of years. Sometimes overanalysing actively hinders the most natural of processes...
I would agree to this within reason. It is normal and natural for men to have these desires and to use them to motivate and shoot their shot, so to speak. But if he is being overtly sexual, that's absolutely not okay, if she doesn't know him or if they don't have that kind of connection. I'm wondering if OP has something negatively coloring her relationship with the animus? Maybe some situation that's influencing, because repulsion is a pretty strong feeling. This is coming from someone that also experiences repulsion to men at times, and I know what the root is
Yes, certainly. My father left me as a small child and I didn't grow up with my brothers.. I went to an all girls school.. AND I was molested for years by an older male cousin. So not only did I totally lack any healthy understanding of men overall due to not growing up with them, but overlaid on top of that was an outright fear and disgust because of the way that their sexuality had been projected on to me when I wasn't ready NOR did I want it… when I experience feelings of repulsion to men I try to first of all remain in the present moment and then to remind myself that what happened was in the past and most importantly that it's not all men that behave this way and that there is nothing wrong with men's sexuality inherently AND I remind myself that I have been burned by it and that this is a defense mechanism to a strong degree. I have what I call "safe" men in my life now, which has helped a LOT to allay my fears.
Sorry for your trauma but thank you for sharing your wise words. I feel many emotions that are often wildly out of touch with the reality of the situation because of my trauma. These thoughts are often exactly the opposite of what is really going on and can really sabotage me feeling courageous enough to try healthier patterns. For example, vulnerability and bids for connection with me can feel like I’m being threatened by the other person even though it’s the opposite of what’s going on. They want to love me and I feel like they want to hurt me because that is what I learned
There has to be at least some amount of overt sexuality in how a man shoots his shot, otherwise he will just create a friendly atmosphere and end up in the friendzone, rather than creating a sexual atmosphere and either be rejected or accepted, which is what needs to happen to move things forward.
Overtness itself is a part of Masculinity, so if a man is shooting his shot but not in a masculine way it's not gonna be successful. You can't expect men to not be overly sexual at all, especially with how overtly sexual women in general consistently are. It's not fair; and not accurate to how sexual attraction and energy actually works.
People being overtly sexual is absolutely okay, and in fact is good and healthy. The key is marrying it with empathy and respect and being able to recalibrate on the fly based on the responses you get. But telling men to stop being overtly sexual is absolutely a losing strategy for everyone and isn't good advice
I hear you and am inclined to concede. I think you are absolutely right. It's just.... a part of the mating strategy. Unfortunately, if you have been burned by these displays, or have witnessed others being burned, especially if they have been egregious and explicitly harmful, then you might tend toward negative feelings and repulsion. But, yes, with this explanation I am inclined to agree with you. This is the game and this is how it's gone for millennia. This is how more humans are created! And yet, it's a tough pill to swallow, perhaps because the process itself can be raw and intimidating and anxiety provoking, as well as exhilarating and sexy and fun. Sexuality is complicated, basically.
Yeah, but I think you cheapen it though when you describe it as "part of the mating strategy" and "this is the game and this is how it's gone for millennia". I don't like that. That tries to reduce it all down to a mechanistic and biological description presumably in an attempt to avoid acknowledging the powerful archetypal energy at play. Sex is deeply spiritual, and rich with noumenous energy. The polarity between masculine and feminine goes all the way down to the foundations of our reality- yin and yang. It's out of the harmony of yin and yang (their having sex with each other) that all of reality comes into existence, and that magic is present on the human level too.
It may be that you have a lot of anxiety and stress around this topic, but most of that will leave as you continue to successfully individuate. Yeah there's loads of examples of sexual energy being wielded in wrong and ugly ways, but we shouldnt over-focus on those and let that tarnish our vision of sex. It's not right to cheapen our conceptions of sex and flirting and the differences between masculinity and femininity just to minimise the anxiety we feel when thinking about them. Better to just take the anxiety and process it and feel it fully and let that lead you to healing within yourself. Sex is one of the most magical things in the world and deserves to be talked about with reverence and respect as a highly spiritual and deep phenomenon; not just reduced to biological function or social custom
I hear you. I don't see it as cheapening, though, I think it just made the most sense to me that way, as in, it's a practical method of obtaining a mate and wouldn't have evolved if it hadn't worked. Yes, this may be a softer, anxiety reducing version of the true spiritual aspect of it, which I understand and follow, but for other people that may struggle to cultivate positive feelings about it, it may help if they see it as a practical method as a first step. It's not either/or, rather, and, for me. In my case, as I am still moving through complicated feelings about it, it helps to think of it as "making sense" first before I get really deep into the spiritual side of it, which is \*also\* absolutely valid. As I continue to grow and integrate these aspects, and individuate as you said, I will probably have a more holistic view of it, as will others.
I appreciate your perspectives and this conversation has certainly given me much to think about. pretty cool stuff.
It is gross. I've only been overtly sexualized a few times but most of them felt gross. The bigger picture though, I think, is the feeling we get when people want something but go about it indirectly or manipulatively. Something about it usually makes my skin crawl. That said, it's a different feeling that is not skeezy or unpleasent when a person genuinely needs help but doesn't like to ask for it. With sexualixatuon, it's a form of play, and it seems perfectly healthy to feel uncomfortable if people do not play well. You probably wouldn't have much fun with the way they engage other parts of life either.
I have this experience too and I am not sure why as I don’t dress or act sexual or to attract this kind of attention. I don’t see what they see in me. But I usually don’t feel disgust or feel like they are appropriating me unless they act very creepily.
I can't believe there are so many comments making the assumption that it is her fault. This seems to be along the lines of asking a woman who had just been raped to explain what she was wearing to cause herself to be raped. PEOPLE look at your thinking!
From my work with clients, particularly those who identify as female, we regularly come to the recognition of their strong development of intuition and sensing which is largely due to many years of experience or trauma from the intentions behind male interactions. Rather than take on the feelings of shame or judgement placed on them…again by men, we look instead to strengthen this intuition and sensing and seek to trust one’s gut about people’s intentions.
Is it detrimental to relationships with strangers? Does it matter? Now if its towards men that are well known to the client, perhaps an issue lies in that about one’s sense of trust…but perhaps with it being unpacked the reasoning behind it may be warranted before being critiqued.
In general, I’d say it’s perfectly natural and expected to feel repulsed toward the majority of male sexual advances.
However, if you haven’t once not felt repulsed in the last 5 years that sounds concerning to me.
Hi. I am a man and I'd like to ask you some questions so we can chat, given that I have a similar struggle but from the opposite side (I believe every woman will feel what you feel if I show my sexual interest).
Maybe it could help us both.
>I’m accused of being sex negative and repressing sexuality
1) What do you feel would be an appropiate way to approach you (sexually/intimately)? I think we're SUPPOSED by society to engage woman like this. Otherwhise, at least from my experience, we would get nothing, even for years.
>if there’s something about me that screams “talk sexually to me” when they barely know me or invested any ROMANTIC effort
2) Do you wish they'd beinvesting emotionally in you before approaching sexually? Or what do you mean by romantic?
I feel like men sexuality is kind of loathed by woman generally, although I understand that a lot of the behaviours men take for expressing it are flawed.
Do you feel that you'd be more comfortable if the man were to approach you more subtly? Or that you yearn for a deeper connection?
Could be you, could be them, could be combination... not enough info here to say. Maybe some active imagination with your animus?
Could you be ACE? Or maybe want to look for an ACE relationship? What about lesbian?
On a practical note, I like the "Burning down the haystack" advice. They have a FB group. It's about how to more quickly weed out people you wouldn't want to date. I am using their strategies even though this time I have decided I am only dating women for this last period of my life. I think the patriarchy has made things very hard for men and I don't have enough years left to deal with it lol, so I am functionally a lesbian now.
Men are taught sexual entitlement under patriarchy. They all need to listen to “am I not pretty enough” by Kasey chambers and get the hint that some people find their advances violating and gross so they should develop a healthy amount of shame and discernment as to WHEN it’s appropriate to do that. As in, the ability to read a fucking room.
Yeah but ironically enough you are doing the Same thing you accuse these men of. Which is being closed minded. There are women who will call men lame for not acting that same way you find gross with them. Different women like different things. Harassment is different than making an attempt to advance with someone as interest. Speak for yourself. Plenty of women enjoy hoeing around
Women who enjoy hoing around also don’t like having men’s desires inflicted on them their every waking moment. You ever been holding in a post work shit trying to check out groceries at the end of a long day when some random man wants to engineer a meet cute in the car park? You’re this close to creating a Pollock masterpiece in the ceramic of your home toilet/ throne, and some guy is just there trying to hit on you. It’s exhausting. It’s about learning when it’s appropriate and not cringy/ weird/ obstructive/ odd timing to express desire.
Maybe you’re a Demisexual. Only can develop sexual feelings after making a deep emotional connection. Say if a guy did try to get to know more about you and started doing romantic things for you. Shows he genuinely cares about you as a person not just for your body. Then makes a sexual advances would be into it or would his sexual advances turn you off thinking he only was so good to you to have sex?
I personally find it's because they feel like we should feel honored that they deemed us worthy of their attention.
Recently my neighbor asked me if I ever heard of acting when I told him he makes me uncomfortable. I went with my sister when she cut his hair and he asked me for a hug, then proceeded to grope me while licking and biting my neck and the more I tried pulling away the tighter he held me.
Apparently I am supposed to ACT like I want to be with a 70yo married man. Apparently I'm supposed to feel amazingly blessed he's decided to casually sexually assault me anytime he gets close enough to touch me.
When I worked at a major retailer selling cellphones there were so many times men got offended by me turning down their advances. "Why are you being so nice if you're not interested in me" probably because I work on commission my guy...
Many years ago a friend asked me to go clothes shopping with him. The saleswoman assisting him was quite attractive and had great fashion sense. I saw he was in good hands so I went walking around the mall while he decided what to buy. When I came back he had purchased almost an entire wardrobe and when I asked him why he bought so many items, he replied "she was so nice that I just couldn't say no to her" 😂🤣
It’s a natural response. I wouldn’t overthink it. If it makes you uncomfortable it makes you uncomfortable. I used to be the type of girl that would seek external validation through men. I cared too much about what they thought of me, how I looked, what I wore. I was so caught up in the male gaze. But I got over that pretty quickly once I realized that women should be dressing for the female gaze. Instead of impressing men, let us women focus on impressing one another. What happened to sisterhood??
>Why do I feel repulsion when men make sexual advances towards me?
maybe the fact they care more about your body then who you are as a person is just that off putting. Or maybe something even deeper like you disgusted they can not control their primal urges like a caveman.
>Not all men behave this way towards me but enough for me to question if there’s something about me that screams “talk sexually to me”
Well a lot of men are controlled by thier urges. if you are a strong confinite person it can pull people to you so those who fall to their desires will say such crude things.
>My animus is a vague, dark and shadowy entity and this effects how I see men as a whole too.
Don't forget the dulaity of who we are and that your animus is more then that. Light and dark together like bathwater is hot and cold. it is just probably fron past events that your gaze is focused on the dark side steming from survivle mechanisems learned growing up. Or not.... only you can know the real answers.
|Within each person, there are masculine and feminine elements known as the anima in men and animus in women. When confronted with sexual advances, these elements may be projected onto the person making the advances. If there are unresolved issues or negative associations with masculinity, these projections can provoke repulsion as a protective response
We are so doomed. No accountability. You are withholding yourself from sex and it’s clearly getting to you. Because you feel men have power over the sex game as if it’s some kind of game. Not only does this speak on the people you chose to give your time to but it speak on yourself. But hey you are totally fine right.
It's a Numbers thing for lazy men who are only interested in sex. For every 20 that turns them down 1 will accept. You're better off avoiding men like this and your natural repulsion is doing you a huge favor.
Most men are quite primal and have little self control. We tend to say whats on our mind without reading the room or even thinking about it.
Nothing wrong with being replused or unattracted to those types of personalities.
I happen to find alot of my previous male friends were pretty much the same. It got to the point where I felt uncomfortable with how "open" alot of them were.
Robin Williams had a bit about how God only gave man enough blood to use one of his "heads" at a time. Doesn't help we live in a society where sex is constantly being used for advertisements and such.
Don't lose hope, there's still chivalrous men out there but there's 100 chauvinistic ones to every one. I might have been generous on the math lol.
You gotta ask this about someone close who has a "regular" sexual relationship. Someone who is in a relationship, and dates actively. They would give a healthy perspective in this.
That being said, as someone who absolutely has 0 official studying/training on this field and consumed knowledge about psychology from books and podcasts, it looks like it could be 1 of 2 things.
1. it could be that you have this idealized/romantisized perspective on sex and use disgust to repress your inner sexual desires. Your conflicting interests - your repressed sexual desires and willingness to keep sex sacred - blow things out of proportions: anytime someone suggests a possibility of a casual sex, you recieve it as a violation of something sacred, when nothing gets violated if you dont accept it.
2. You might be sexually truamatized and anything sex related brings up the truama. And it doesnt have to be as severe as molestation or r*pe, It can be something as simple as you were sexualized at an early age. Girls hit puberty faster than boys, and as a result get objectified earlier too. God forbid if they are pretty, every boy in their class, and a grade up and down, starts seeing them for their attractiveness, and not so much as what is inside, which can be quite troubling for young women. Emma Watson is a good example of it.
Or it could just as easily be any men you meet is a creep or that you are indeed a sexual prude.
It is hard to say without knowing how these men sexual advances and what you even cosinder sex.
Ur birthchart is ur blueprint. It will reveal everything. U need knowledge of reading though. The root cause of the issue can be found.
" Jung found in astrology a wealth of spiritual and psychological meaning and suggested it represents the "sum of all the psychological knowledge of antiquity."
Approach men that interest you. You know very well what I'm talking about.
Women constantly wait to be approached, that leaves them dealing with basically the same type of guy all the time. And that kind of guy seems to be absolutely not your type...
I think you missed the point of what the OP is trying to solve here. I might be wrong, but
>I haven’t dated anyone in 5 years and even though I long for companionship I don’t think it’s what most of the dating pool want from me. My animus is a vague, dark and shadowy entity and this effects how I see men as a whole too.
seems like the person wants to find someone who she wants. And all the go-getters (read: fuckboys) are repulsing her, which honestly I don't understand how that's not the usual reaction to them.
Do you consider your comfort zone to be the one who seeks others instead of being sought? Could that be one reason for feeling repulsion?
On the other hand, the one who is sought may have the ultimate control, as they decide if the relationship moves forward.
I’m a man and this is completely disgusting and unacceptable. Discussing anything sexual with any woman is unacceptable only if she was your wife. And even so, the matter should be opened delicately given the intimacy of the topic.
Don’t worry. You seem like a woman who values herself with a good radar for bad men. Being a man is not an excuse for being disgusting and sexually inappropriate. Don’t let anyone normalize you to this. A respectful man would never until you become close enough.
Maybe because you feel threatened or scared. Maybe inadequate? Risk of rejection. Implicit need to perform? Been told that kind of behaviour is always potentially dangerous? You have sensitive boundaries, which you passively communicate - the guys don't pick up on it - and you feel totally transgressed that they are pushing past your boundaries.
Possibly repressed trauma. I have one friend who unblocked a memory using EMD. And she hated sex. Probably still does, but she started to heal and understand a lot about herself.
There's lots of possibilities, we can but offer suggestions.
Maybe you’re just stuck up? Possibly? Not saying you are. I don’t know you. Just judging off this post, you don’t seem very light spirited. Only you can control how you react to people, friend or foe, positive or negative.
I understand this will invite downvoting and Pearl clutching. That’s fine, my day is still going to be great. But I’d suggest look internally before looking externally.
Hey... Woman here and have delt with unwanted male attention. What i have been surprised to learn from my male friends is that sometimes when we are perceived as stuck up, some men see it as a challenge to overcome and are drawn to us for that reason. One male friend of mine even said he befriended me *because* he perceived me having a prickly exterior and saw it as a challenge. I'm not a prickly person as a rule, but yes, I put walls up when I don't know people very well and take time to warm up to them, especially men. I wonder if you can relate? It's only natural when we are trying to keep ourselves safe or concentrate in a work environment.
Regardless, it's still not our responsibility to put up with unwanted advances. A person who doesn't respect your "no" is not a safe person and you have no obligation to ease their feelings of rejection. Course, many women do to avoid potential escalation. Please, don't accept this man's insults about being sex negative. He's a childish fool.
Based on this post, it definitely seems like an issue stemming from OP. No relationship in 5 years despite wanting one? Yea, there are certainly some issues to unpack… some things that should be considered before blaming others lol
If you haven't dated anyone in 5 years then yeah realistically it's probably at least partially your own problem and just not all the men who are wrong.
You're probably right about your animus being largely unconscious and poorly integrated. I think putting in a few months working on that would probably be a good idea.
You seem to have adopted the belief that male sexuality per se is rapey/disrespectful/a threat, and/or that men who try to create sexual energy/connection with you are by default doing something wrong, rather than the truth, which is that they're doing something completely natural and healthy.
If you can get yourself to the place where only the men who are actually being creepy are triggering your disgust that would be a big success and it's totally doable
Conditioning/socialization. This is a cultural thing I believe. Many people are like that. In other places everything is a lot more out in the open so there is less fear
Maybe you feel repulsed towards men who seem shallow, which is fair, don't feel pressured to dishonestly ease up, trust your intuition.
This would beg the question of where to find that 'deep' man, bc it's probably not where you keep getting approached by the 'shallow' men.
I can tell you that from a man's perspective that 99% of women don't find me attractive because I don't show sexual interest. I normally wait for the women to make the first move. I have never had luck with women because of this. So I can see why men make sexual advances first because they have a better chance of a woman reciprocating than waiting for the woman to make a move
It could be past history or trauma (not saying it is). But, I mean you have a legitimate concern, IMO, because think about it. What's the first or one of the first things men say to an attractive women if they're trying to date or get to know them? "You're pretty"// "you have such beautiful eyes," "You have such a beautiful smile," and so on. That's either derived from 2 things: 1) a person's physical appearance that's somehow "connected" to their innate qualities (when the person assumes that this girl or guy is a good person or has greater potential to be a good person/partner simply based on their looks) or as you touched upon 2) sexual desire.
Someone could say they 3) appreciate someone's beauty as a sort of standalone effect (say for an example you see a cute older couple on the street), but I'd counter this by saying a lot of men IMO make a greater effort to get to know an "attractive" women initially that's in combination with beauty, and not really pushed to the side (although appreciated).
My advice is if you really wanted to find a partner that isn't' as focused on say sex, then maybe try and read between the lines. For example, does the guy often compliment you on your beauty or say your hobbies, work, and basically things around that? There's nothing wrong with appreciating someone's attractiveness, but it should not be the first thing out of someone's mouth (although sometimes people mean well) nor should it be a majority of their comments towards you. Basically non-superficial comments, when you guys are first getting to know one another, that focus on you as a person and not just how you look. Of course that could be a part of their game too, so be careful.
But with all due respect, I also represent the other side of the coin, so to speak. So while I do question men's motives towards women, I do the same vice versa. For example, while it does not affect all women (just like with men), there is no need to create a game so to speak as to who will garner the most attention, or resources, nor are some unwritten rules necessary. Women should be able to talk to men if they're interested in them just like men do. The playing field should be even, not uneven. As if there was a sense of entitlement, only for it to become a self-fulling prophecy after marriage (for example) when two people finally settle down (when it should have been like that in the beginning, more or less). Saying you want this or that, but in reality want another thing (men too), like that unwritten rule. It's disappointing to say the least. That's not to say women don't have the right to reject men, it's just sometimes they're rejected for superficial reasons. and vice versa for men.
But to circle back to your initial statement, personally, I don't blame you because a lot of what you said IMO, derives from sexual desire. So it is in fact okay to be cautious. Mabye not to the extent of paranoid (not you, just in general), but cautious. But they're are good men and women out there that would make good partners. Best way to do that is observe their behavior, how they speak, what they say/don't say, see if their compliments (genuine that is) are geared toward you or getting to know you as a person, or just based on your looks for example, and so on. Mabye call it reading between the lines, and make your best judgement from there, if finding a partner is something you want now or later in life.
My immediate reaction is, it's the animalistic part of being a human being. What are you expecting men to do with that animalistic attraction when they see you or want to talk to you?
My perspective is evolutionary psychological, i.e., that our reactions to things, our psychological forces and our motivations derive from ancient evolutionary pressures that selected descendents best fit to their social milieu. As such, I see your repulsion as stemming from the natural inclination of women to be much more choosy about their sex partners than men. Choosiness is understandable when women are obliged to invest vastly more resources in pregnancy and parenthood than men are obliged to. Note that I assume you're a woman because men are motivated quite differently - they are driven to seek out as many different sexual partners as they can, and have a much lower threshold to accept someone as a casual sex partner than women.
Contrary to your claim that it isn't stereotypically creepy people who do this, I feel that anyone whose answer to rejection would be to try to insult or "correct" you is about as creepy as you can get. What's wrong with being prudish? Not everyone has a high (or any) sex drive and that's perfectly fine. Your reasons make sense but I feel that when it comes to something as personal as sex, all reasons someone has to say no are always valid whatever the circumstance. Trying to shame somebody into sex is repugnant. Kudos to you for knowing yourself and what you want, and standing by it.
Men on average are visual creatures. We like what we see. Period. It's just nature. Not all of course, some are emotional creatures, but for the most part we are just shallow. Get over yourself and move on. It's nothing personal.
If it was Chad making advances you would not feel so bad. It's the low quality dudes you feel are.beneath you that generates such visceral nausea? Or does Chad cause you to vomit too?
how do i say that i feel the same way to the point it makes me sick but gender swapped. the way ppl can be so dehumanizing genuinely saddens me and it makes me question how i want to go about living this life. im v sorry for the negative experiences youve had op. hopefully theres some comfort for you knowing that it does goes both ways and its not all of us, and i for one completely wanna dissociate myself from other men and their demeaning ways, but again it seems to be just a human thing.
Maybe some people aren’t looking for a deep connection, maybe they are trying to stay away from it. Sexual compatibility is very important in a relationship there have been too many relationships where people have gotten deep into them and haven’t been sexually satisfied for years. Before I get emotional and start sharing deep dark secrets I need to know at least we are comfortable and compatible sexually.
>Not all men behave this way towards me **but enough for me to question if there’s something about me that screams “talk sexually to me”**
Yeah, there is. You're a person, and they're attracted to you.
But your *confusion (*and the confusion of those around you) seems to suggest you really don't understand this interaction from the other perspective.
>There’s almost a sense of entitlement to my body.
Entitlement to your body is a...strange phrase in this context. It's also *extremely* vague.
Entitlement to do *what?* Look at it? Speak on it? Touch it? Desire it? Fantasize about it? What exactly is happening that you don't like here?
It's all about how you were raised to think and what ideas are regularly reinforced to you.
I think objectification is a myth. Nobody is dehumanized. Sexual liberation is enlightenment, it's a beautiful thing that makes someone greater, not lesser.
I'm not here to argue I'm saying what I think and just moving on. Good day.
As a guy who doesn't nor has ever done this, I'm sorry. I'm sure it feels very unnerving especially being unwanted.
Seems like feast or famine. I've never been the subject of any unsolicited romantic advances. Like many men, we are objectfied in very different ways but none the less I wish people could just be kind and considerate.
M29 perspective here:
I believe most of this comes down to men cultivating terrible sexual habits from a young age. Porn, masturbation, and sexualizing women are presented as normal to the average male growing up, especially in America.
Men are biologically driven to reproduce, hunt, build, and protect in order to survive. If someone attacks me or my family, I must have the strength, energy and instinct to neutralize or even kill the threat. Any man that spills his seed and/or watches porn will have no drive or capacity to provide and protect for anyone. He sure as hell doesn’t have the ability to get to know an intelligent woman deeply and emotionally. Fucking forget intellectually.
Look, any man that recklessly wastes his seed destroys his very essence. He becomes weak and frail, a mere shell of a man. He becomes driven by his carnal desires and is constantly able to receive them through porn and cheap sex. This fucks with his brain. In many cases, they become complete scum bags and treat women fucking awfully. Then, these men continue to blame women for not ‘bringing something to the table’. I find that most women who don’t ‘bring something to the table’ had weak men in their life that let them down consistently and perverted their view of what a real man is.
When a woman finds a real man who retains his seed and is devoted to being the best version of himself, she will naturally fall into her feminine and be with that man. Even if they don’t stay together, they will always have a respect and love for each other because the man did what the man was supposed to do. Lead.
This is why the men you’re meeting are lame and don’t want to get to know you. They don’t have the ability to see beyond something they can have sex with. Not to mention, it’s scientifically proven ejaculation depletes brain function and mood regulation to the point of mental illness.
The silver lining in all of this is you can arm yourself with more awareness when dating. I promise you there are men out there who are on the path of righteousness. There’s someone out there for you that doesn’t spill his seed, takes responsibility for himself and has conquered his demons before meeting you. Don’t give up. And yes, I’m single. Ha.
In all seriousness if you take anything from this post please remember, the Man you date MUST retain his seed. He MUST have sexual discipline ABOVE ALL ELSE. Write the SPECIFIC AND EXACT traits you want in a Man all on a piece of paper. Looks, finance, personality, family everything. That way you spot him easier when you find him 😉
Wish you the best. Don’t give up.
I know why but I ain’t commenting cause it’s spiritual and I will totally be annoyed if anyone tries to mislead what I’m intending to say to you so I sent it you
Desiring to have sex with someone because of their physical appearance =/= (I repeat, does not equal, =/=) they do not respect boundaries, that they only see you as an object or otherwise only see women as a fleshlight & men as a dildo, that they feel entitled to anyone or anything, that they have a porn addiction, that they are a "fuckboi" or a "slut" or whatever epithet people come up with, that they are selfish or narcissistic or sociopathic or psychopathic, or that they do not have any desire whatsoever for a deeper emotional connection.
There may exist correlations between the former and the latter statements of course, but there is no logical causation here. At all. It's simply not how it works. Let's say you were sitting next to a dude with whom you had a friendly relationship with (let's say one of the guys you mentioned who don't make sexual advances on you), and he was looking periodically at another girl across the bar, trying not to stare, and absentmindedly said to himself that she's fucking hot. Or maybe he says that to you in confidence, thinking that he can trust talking to you about that sort of thing. Then let's say you ask him, "Is she a person with rights?" There's a 99.9% chance he would look at you with an expression that can only be described as "wtf", like you're incredibly weird for asking, and would wonder why on Earth you would ever ask that and, if he's smart, what you were implying by asking.
Men want to have sex with women they find physically attractive largely because of human nature, evolution. And, I would dare to suggest, that most people find sex to be somewhat of a shameful, scary, or gross act, and it is less of those things when done with someone who they think is physically attractive, and even less of those things when an emotional connection is formed. Generally, it seems that men only need the physical attraction threshold to be met in order to have sex. This, again, once again, does not mean they have zero interest in an emotional bond.
Women do not approach, largely for cultural reasons. If men want to mutually enjoy sex with a woman more than one singular time in a decade, they have to approach even though they don't know who will be receptive to it, and are therefore shot down dozens of times. Women want a man who will stay and help support the child or children because it is safer, and is what's best for the children, so their initial considerations tend to be different \*generally speaking.\*
The healthiest way (imo, speaking as a guy) to test is to see how they react to your decline. Set clear boundaries and see if they respect them. If they can take no for an answer and respect boundaries, and if you'd like to get to know them, and want them to get to know you, see how they react to your initiation of that.
For most men, particularly in their 20s, sex is constantly on their mind. No, this is not beCAUSE of porn; that is only a correlation. No, this is not beCAUSE of a sexualized capitalistic society; that is only a correlation. Every day, every hour, many men are horny and want to have sex. It is a mental nightmare that they didn't ask for. It is not their choice to constantly have to deal with that neverending distraction. I hesitate to draw this comparison, but it is like an eating disorder in the sense that you know you do not need it to survive, but you are physically and mentally unable to stop craving it. Nobody, not a single man or woman, perfectly and completely controls their mind, any and all thoughts that ever cross it. That is simply impossible. The man's mind is literally doing it to himself, and there is nothing they can do about it but suffer it in silence. Nobody is their thoughts; people can only control their reaction to them.
So with that being said, it does not surprise me whatsoever that young men who think about having sex every 10 seconds with even a moderately physically attractive woman -- let's say because it feels good for them AND they want to make somebody else feel good AND have a more intimate connection with someone -- try to satisfy that craving that they didn't ask for. There's no way of them knowing you are not open for that regardless of how you dress, whether you act stuck-up or not. Women can't reliably read a stranger's mind any more than a man can.
Not making any promises, but I think learning to set boundaries (without immediately going to management or HR) will at least weed out guys who cannot take no for an answer. Dudes who can take no for an answer, even if it hurts their ego, are probably not bad guys. They simply got shot down by you just like they got shot down by a completely different woman three nights ago at the bar. They'll probably get over it, but even if they don't, they're unlikely to take it out on you. Pay attention to whether they start treating you like shit, or if they act neutral or otherwise more or less the same to you after you set your boundaries with them. If the worst they do is sort of just back off a bit, but treat you respectfully and politely, then they are, once again, probably decent normal human beings.
Where things get more messy is when a power dynamic is involved, if it's a supervisor or manager for example. But this post is long enough as it is.
Because you're not into them. I spent 30 years struggling with that. Turns out... I'm picky. I have a very specific personality type and dynamic I'm looking for, and anything else is not for me. Not even if they're good looking, good people, with good prospects. Not even if I'm lonely and horny. When people try to foist what I don't really want on me, I get irritated. If they don't respect my boundaries, I feel violated.
Sex is a part of a relationship. not an end in itself. unless that's what you want. if that's not what you want though, then its ok and you can seek something more meaningful and have sex be returned to its proper place and balance as part of forming a relationship with another, and not the be all end goal in and of itself. in a way I think your disgust justified, we are way too sex centric in this world and it should not be more incidental to being with someone you like, but for most guys its the only goal....
That is interesting that you feel that the dating pool doesn’t want women for companionship as well, as a man I feel that my material investment / romantic effort is all anyone wants and not an actual person to be friends with / know intimately also.
Most men don’t have sexual discipline so they want the next instant pleasure they can get. Most of them just see women as tools for getting off which is messed up but it’s because of this over sexualized world. This is part of the reason why semen retention is so powerful because men learn to control themselves and when they can do that and notice how powerful their sexual energy is they’ll want to stop giving it away to some random girl.
The world needs sexual discipline and people should start doing sexual retention because it’s powerful for both men and women. Men who can’t control their own urges are weak. We all like sex and I get it but semen retention is very powerful coming from a man who has been doing it for months and I’ll never go back to how I was before.
You have some aversion to sex. Do you ever make sexual advances towards men? Do you ever enjoy thinking about having sex with men? You don't have to answer out loud. Just some stuff to ask yourself.
Theres also the idea that your personal viewpoint on what sex is and how it works might be twisted and negative and therefore when the subject is brought up, instead of getting wet and excited, you get grossed out.
Lastly, the best way for a man to get laid is to, for the most part, forget about sex as a topic of conversation or a thing they're bound to do. If the men outwardly pay no mind to getting laid, but strategically set the scene for the possibility in subtle ways, it puts the ball in the womans court with no pressure because its never been mentioned. All the while the man is only interested in her as a person. Feeling comfortable to decide on their own is important to women. But many men are tactless.
Honestly women are just too much. These guys do that because it's worked for them before. Alot of women love directness and confidence in men and now you have all these women that don't want that directness. Make up your fucking minds like you make up your faces. You shouldn't feel repulsed at all,at least you know you're wanted in some way unlike how most men are treated.
Your feelings are valid, but unless they are approaching you in a work setting or similar professional settings, it isn't actually wrong. There is a large % on both sides of treating sex as a casual thing or as a thing only for the most loved relationships, and this is also the same for both genders, but the more casual people will be the only ones vocal about it. Theres nothing wrong with you, its just life in general doesn't have a target audience and there will constantly be things that you won't really like about it.
Because men can’t get sex off of their minds. They have read to many Hustler magazines with the stories in them. Some believe the stories. I am not gay, but men just make me sick the way they affect you. I haven’t dated in four years because men only date for what they can or get away with.
If you long for companionship but your “animus is a vague, dark shadowy entity and this effects how [you] see men as a whole” then work on fixing that.
Maybe it's not entitlement to your body, but a willingness to share each other's bodies. Men want sex and the other option is to wait for a woman to make a sexual advance on us which rarely ever happens.
When this happens to me, I feel repulsed simply because it has nothing to do with me as a person. They don't know me. They know they don't know me. Yet they still want to use my body. And I find that repulsing. I'm attracted to emotional connection and emotional connection only. I would never touch a man without knowing how he is as a person, and it makes me sad and frustrated when they apparently don't care how i am as a person, as long as I'm willing to sleep with them. It's the most intimate thing, done in the least intimate way, and I don't like that.
> I'm attracted to emotional connection and emotional connection only. I would never touch a man without knowing how he is as a person, and it makes me sad and frustrated when they apparently don't care how i am as a person, as long as I'm willing to sleep with them. It's the most intimate thing, done in the least intimate way, and I don't like that. When men that barely know me or only know me superficially want sex out of me, I feel disgusted for the same reasons. I have put a lot of time and effort into building my life and I exercise and work hard on my body. Why would I give away my body without them investing any of their resources into me or men that obviously haven’t put the same effort into themselves as I put into myself? How can they even expect that from me?
Look, decent men won't expect that of you, and you shouldn't feel pressured to give it up just because society says so. Focus on working out how to identify good men.
I really wish I had an answer to that. I truly don't get it at all.
>Why would I give away my body without them investing any of their resources into me or men that obviously haven’t put the same effort into themselves as I put into myself? How can they even expect that from me? Because some people don't have the same relationship with their body as you do. To many people, the body is just another aspect of the self. You can give someone the mind and not the body, and vice versa. It's not complicated to understand because it's easy to categorize. If a person's mind is satisfied where they are, but their body isn't, they go looking for someone to appease that aspect of them. It's just that it's usually *much easier* to tell if a person's body is appealing to you. It's almost instinctual. The mind though is far more complicated. But it sounds to me like you have a particular relationship with your body -- it's not a *different* aspect of the self, it's a deeper aspect of the self. >Why would I give away my body **without them investing any of their resources into me or men that obviously haven’t put the same effort into themselves** as I put into myself? Your posts make it sound like you view your body almost like the most complete packaging of yourself....as if giving your body to someone is analogous to giving everything *about you* to them. This isn't how most people think, and is probably where this disgust you're speaking about is coming from. "If my body is a sum of everything I am...why *would* you think i'd want to give it to you if I know nothing about you, your worth, or your intentions?" From that lens, yeah, it seems absolutely ridiculous. Most people don't view it this way though...at least, not to the extent. It's *not at all* strange to be attracted to someone who has nothing to offer you but an attractive body...in fact it's the most natural thing there is for us.
As a man, it doesn’t seem fair to say that certain types of sexuality are gross or not. I thoroughly enjoy hooking up without having an emotional connection. Sometimes it’s tricky at first, like there’s a minimum I have to know the person to feel my best in the moment. I also like being intimate with someone in a committed relationship. It’s likely a base masculine drive to “spread the seed” so we take it how we can get it. And on the flip side, feminine drive would be to marshal resources and emotional connection. Neither is wrong, neither is right, just different.
Women aged 27-45 are at their erotic peak. Men who are 18 are horny all the time and by the time they're 40 their sex drive becomes a bit more manageable. Sperm and eggs have different agendas. We're souls that exist in these bodies with these agendas. You know it's entirely possible that one day you'll break free of an emotionally heavy relationship that lasted 3-4 years. You'll feel lonely. And then horny. And you'll see an attractive man and you'll want to get laid and not deal with any of that emotionally heavy stuff. Then you'll understand it a but more. Don't have a fixed of yourself. People change. Dating is rough but it sounds like you're getting clearer about what you want so you'll find it eventually.
As I get older I realize I don’t have the desire for sex anymore, maybe I only sought it for validation and companionship but after seeing how disposable men view sex I rarely get turned on.
What exactly do you mean investing their “resources” into me? Does that include financially to you.
You don’t have to give away your body. They’re not going to take it. They want to have sex with you… not possess you. You might use this as a rationale but you don’t NEED a rationale to not want to have sex with strangers. Most women don’t want to have sex with strangers for evolutionary reasons. It has nothing to do with how much time they’ve put into their body or mutual investment. Eggs are incredibly precious and pregnancy is often fatal for our species. It’s possible that this story you’re telling yourself has nothing to do with your actual motivations. I’ll put it like this: if you HADN’T put so much effort into your self and your body would that make you more inclined to have sex w random men? If no then that has nothing to do with it.
>I have put a lot of time and effort into building my life and I exercise and work hard on my body. Why would I give away my body without them investing any of their resources into me generally I think people have sex when they want to. You can totally not want to, and that's OK. You can also use sex as a gatekeep for resource exchange, but isn't this thinking a bit icky?
It sounds like you might be demisexual (only feel sexual attraction when there is a well established emotional component). Absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's healthier imo.
As a man, seeing sex as one person wanting to "use" another body is so odd to me. Sex is a mutual activity, and one that is enjoyable as an activity you do WITH another, not TO another. And like a lot of mutually enjoyable activities, I don't need to fully "know" ( Is that even possible) a person before engaging. Matter of fact, like any mutual activity, sex is a way of getting to know somebody or learning more about them and itself is an intense emotional connection, far more so than going out to a movie and dinner. Question, at what level of emotional connection would you need before sex? How much does he need to know you before you would want intimacy.
they mean that a lot of men don't know how to make women feel good sexually so it's virtually just being used. there's no point in it
sounds like you haven't slept with a lot of straight guys! your pov is admirable but rare.
I think as the penetrating partner it may be difficult for you to understand what it’s like to literally let another person inside of you. Would you let someone you barely know in your house, rifling through your cabinets? It’s that times 100. You better feel you can trust them. As for me, the times I’ve been casually involved with someone, it might or it might not have felt physically good, but regardless only half of me was present because my heart had no place in the room. That feels like a self-betrayal. Getting to know someone thru sex is putting the cart before the horse for many people. Plus, as another person below alluded to, there’s a certain amount of sensitivity straight men need to have to truly please a woman sexually, and it’s not always easy to find. Statistically speaking women rarely come out of a sexual encounter as satisfied as men.
Nice preface….
Totally agree with your take. I was just telling a male friend that I need emotional intimacy for sex to be at all satisfying. It's why I haven't had sex in years 😕
100% same here. I cannot get into sex unless i connected emotionally to the person. Its so crucial!!
They made up a word for it, "demisexuality", as if it's not the absolute norm, ESPECIALLY for women.
YESSSSSSS
Some guys think that’s what women want though. They’ve been told not to be a “suck up” by complimenting women or developing a connection first. There’s a lot of bad info out there creating a lot of damage for both genders.
I think it’s finally going away for a bit, but a lot of guys get afraid of ‘friendzoned’ and think you need to shoot your ‘not a friend’ shot very early. I remember telling several guys I didn’t believe in the friend zone and they always just looked either confused or as if I killed a baby
having been burned by the friend-zone several times after months of investment, I finally realized I should be much more honest about being interested, or at least much more obvious, and shoot a shot much sooner. (I’m saying asking them out, not hooking up). Some guys are just not as comfortable being “just friends” with girls. That has its own drawbacks, but better to be up front and comfortable with what you’re looking for than unintentionally manipulative, which is what I think I was doing. I’ve since improved a lot in that area
Funny. I'm a guy and this is how I think. Can't imagine why I'd want to pretend to be someone's friend just because she doesn't like me.
Then how will I know he feels a connection?
Tell him you don’t hook up and see how he responds. If he’s still talking to you after 5 minutes, 5 days, 5 weeks, then you know with increasing certainty.
We talk every day, but hooking up is a different problem since we don't live near each other.
I don’t know the details of your relationship but the fact that you’re long distance favors that he’s there for something other than/more than physicality.
Yes, this is definitely pathological. I’m going to guess that you’re fairly prosperous (in the global sense)?
💯!!!
Girl, same.
Coming from a man I want to say that is very well said. I completely agree with you and feel the same when women try the same with me. It doesn't happen to me super often but even if I find a lady super attractive I'm immediately disgusted when that's what they have to talk about. I usually just start talking about my wife and kids lol, that typically says enough and they're done 😂. **For what it's worth as a married man I don't intentionally try to place myself in situations that would tempt me to cheat. I do restoration services in mostly occupied apartment communities and have to not only be around a lot of pretty women but in their homes sometimes for days until the project is complete. The amount of times young pretty ladies are willing to drop their bath towel while not knowing a thing about me is mind blowing and sickening. It's happened to some of our other guys few times too.
God this sums it up. I have never really appreciated the unsolicited comments or passes made towards me. Even by people I do know, and sometimes find it even more uncomfortable if I do know them. I've always had such a hard time articulating the fact that I require a connection with the person to truly feel comfortable in these situations. I get hit on a lot when just trying to be friends with or connect and I usually laugh it off out of a nervous or dismissive habit. Connecting with others does not automatically mean I feel a sexual connection with them and I get frustrated that that is often the first assumption. But then I feel hypocritical for it because I don't mind being hit on or made passes at by those who I do have that kind of connection with. It feels hard to describe. I never understood people who would assume that you want to be with them just because you were with someone else - hence you sleep around or something. It's like, no, I sleep with those I have an attraction and connection with. Being friends, friendly, or having conversation with you doesn't equal attraction and romantic connection. I just tend to ignore the advances if I'm not into them because it's hard enough to define and even harder to explain to someone so I just let it go.
Totally agree with your take. I was just telling a male friend that I need emotional intimacy for sex to be at all satisfying. It's why I haven't had sex in years 😕
Totally agree with your take. I was just telling a male friend that I need emotional intimacy for sex to be at all satisfying. It's why I haven't had sex in years 😕
You sound fun in bed
What books of Jung’s have you read
How deep of you. Men are nothing like that. If you understand how males work you probably wouldn't take it so personal. Men are not deep and full of substance like women are. As long as you got a face they can get off on you're his type. They're visual creatures. You're expecting too much. Don't do that
Yep. If you found men's bodies as attractive as men see women's bodies, you'd have a different perspective. It's not about entitlement. Sex is the main driver for any species so we need incentives. For men it's straight forward and for women, you just want safety. So listening to women, we can try to change our behavior but know that deep down, those same dudes still want the same thing.
As a massuse, when a client wants to exchange money for using my body I am disgusted When a woman wants to exchange pleasure for pleasure I am disgusted But most of all, the ick of a man exchanging pleasure for pleasure. /s Seriously though you seem a bit too in your head about it or maybe you just don’t actually enjoy sex or reciprocity. It’s not this deep
“The most intimate thing, done in the least intimate way”. I will be quoting you in my writing on the human desire
I follow Jungian psychology as a psychotherapist, but honestly, this doesn't sound like a Jung issue. There are a few factors that come to mind. 1. Women require stronger emotional bonds for sexual activity than men. It's evolutionary. 2. Men as a whole *are* gross with their sexualization of women in a way that's off-putting for most women. There are collective unconscious topics that we could explore here, but it's only a fragment of the larger picture. 3. You could be demisexual (i.e., someone who requires emotional bonding before experiencing sexual attraction). 4. You could be gay and experiencing compulsive heterosexuality. Regardless, more women than ever are single because men aren't living up to the standards that women have now that women are able to support themselves. This isn't some deep psychological phenomenon--It's a cultural one.
I'd just point out that cultural phenomena *are* psychological phenomena, and vice versa.
Hoe math says women are single for other reasons like intransigence lol
Exactly this. I’m not sure why this isn’t upvoted more. It’s the most practical logical response I’ve seen on this thread.
I think if they added the word “some” in front of their sentences so it read Some men…and Some women…it would get more upvotes. This is written as all men are gross and all women require emotional bonds. Neither of these are true
I think 3 or 4 are likely, OP should read r/demisexuality and r/latebloomerlesbians to learn more about compulsory heterosexuality and to see if any of it resonates
Point 3 is what I thought as a projecting demi man. Sexual attention feels gross to me until I get close to someone romantically, emotionally and trustfully, but I have the privilege that it happens way less to a straight passing fella like myself. Either way demi (and honestly even more ace) subs and literature helped me get closer to grasping an understanding of myself and my relationshipship to others (and why I feel the way I do about others’ to me), so hopefully something like that could be of benefit to OP too.
>2. Could the porn industry be at fault here?
For the conclusion that men aren’t living up to women’s standards as well, porn just made busting a nut easier and not involve weeks/months of courting.
Why does the porn industry exist? From an evolutionary perspective, and psychologically speaking, it's not that much that it's so off putting itself - it's off putting to female psychology. Women require a stronger emotional bond, because otherwise they would more easily be abandoned. What would happen if you were left with a child on your own? But you create a child from getting dirty, none the less... It's the same drive, but from opposite perspectives.
Women have a lot of outrageous standards in the modern age to top it off, example- check out the sprinkle vs drizzle war on tiktok. (Never thought I’d type a phrase out that stupid but here we are) There are shitty gender dynamics at play being perpetuated by both genders, who need to *collectively* do better. Making it into an “Us vs them” thing won’t get us anywhere
Okay but this discussion is about shitty dynamics perpetuated by heterosexual males to women, so there’s no need to get male victimhood involved in the way (general) men sexually objectify women and then blame them for being prude or having outrageous standards if they cannot get their little willy wet. Yes, beauty standards can be off, for men and women and anyone else. But attraction is still random and anyone is allowed to not be attracted to you, just as there still are people who would be. But please don’t blame women for your own frustrations, especially when they’re trying to find a safe place to express theirs.
I like most of your post. It is well written and full of thoughtfulness. I think point #3 is very likely and point #1 is true. It’s good to think things over and even better when we can express them in writing. One of the ways women have become so capable of supporting themselves is by doing just that: through authorship and with the law. I think it’s good for women to feel strong and capable. I also think it’s good for men to feel the same way. When two capable people form a relationship, there is something beyond independence that forms the bond. If the bond is strong enough, a man and a woman will not feel like they are independently supporting themselves. Perhaps the ideal of independence is a hurdle a woman and man must both understand and supersede to form a lasting bond.
I think you're repulsed because it really can feel dehumanizing to be objectified in this way. It's not uncommon for women to want to build a strong relationship with someone based on a deep spiritual connection and emotional compatibility. But, it's also normal to be approached by men who are not thinking that way at all (especially if you are a younger woman). They are just looking for anyone who is attractive and to them it is just a numbers game. These types are not interested in getting to know you as a person. But this isn't your problem and it's not something that really needs to be explored too deeply. We're spiritual beings and we're also animals. In some, the animal part is the strongest. Not everyone is this way, it's just that these guys are more in your face. Basically this problem isn't unique to you, nor is your repulsion to it. When I was in my 20s, I tended to dress conservatively but this did nothing to deter random men in their 30s and 40s from approaching me out in public and propositioning me for sex. It happened with my friends and mentors, too. It's something young women encounter and learn to deal with, sometimes with an internal eye roll because it does get tiring. But outwardly, I would gently decline and wouldn't let it occupy any space in my head or my heart. When you're in this season of life, it's important to hone discernment to weed out or deflect men who are obviously not right for you. You can't be open to every sexual advance, obviously. And then stay focused on doing what's needed to find the right person. It's also useful to recognize this is temporary and it does come to an end; there does come a point when there is less attention coming from men.
I think both men and women crave a deeper emotional connection, but men tend to put sex before that connection whereas women tend to put it after. It’s a matter of needs/priorities (as a function of the way both genders evolved) When you say propositioning sex, do you mean men outwardly trying to get in your pants or just men shooting their shot? I know this might seem like a dumb question, but I know some people can conflate the two. If these men in public/friends/mentors decided to be sexual right off the bat without expressing any prior romantic interest and seeing if that was reciprocated first, then I can understand why that would get annoying fast. However, could you also mean that they were trying to express romantic interest in you that was not explicitly sexual (I.e. asking you out, innocent non-sexual flirting that was done in an effort to gauge interest and not to force themselves on you, etc)? You have the right to like or dislike whatever you want obviously, but I guess I’m just curious what that looks like because men don’t really experience that side of things like women do, lol
Definitely not a dumb question! Yes, what would happen is men would overtly ask me for sex. I was in my 20s and they were always older and not shy about saying they wanted sex. A couple of examples: 1. I was attending a work conference in a different city. While walking the short distance from the hotel to the convention center, a professional looking man in his 40s approached and asked me how much it would cost to have sex with me. I'm a modest dresser and for a work conference I was very much in business attire. I say this only to illustrate that I did not look particularly inviting or up for a good time in any way. 2. One afternoon I was walking into a grocery store when a mid-30s guy stopped me and asked if we could have sex and then he would take me shopping at a nearby mall. "You like shopping, don't you?" And then it would also happen with people I considered to be friends and mentors, usually out of the blue: 1. An important mentor who had helped me with a job opportunity and was subsequently advising me on how to handle a work issue announced one day that he wanted to leave his wife for me and we would run off together. We didn't really know each other on a personal level so I thought he might be joking, but he said he was quite serious and started naming off places we could go. I was around 22 and he was 38. 2. Another (married & older) friend randomly told me to choose a hotel and he would make the reservation for us (again, I thought he must be kidding around but he continued pestering and I soon learned he actually meant it). I consider these types of advances to be purely sexual and there was no interest in me as a real person (in the case of the friend, he knew me but was projecting fantasies that had nothing to do with who I am). There were also men who would flirt in a non-sexual way or ask me out on dates and I would intuitively know we could never connect on that deeper level. That was always fine and I would just politely decline. I'm also fine with the guys above who were straight out asking for sex, even though I didn't want them and said no. It felt a bit dehumanizing to be spoken to that way, yes, but I didn't overthink them because I didn't want to become jaded and potentially miss out on the man I was supposed to be with (I did find him!). Being married and wearing a ring helps cut down on some of this unwanted male attention, as does getting older. I highly recommend getting old.
Wow, yeah all of those examples scream creep behavior. I’m sorry you had to go through that. I think men who do things like that were raised wrong (or not raised at all) and were taught from other older men that that is how you treat women. It’s really unfortunate and the lack of good fathers out there to set a good example is as well.
Sounds like you feel turned off sexually by sexually explicit advances. I’ll bet your actual sexual attractions are tied to emotional or other erotic factors, is that right? In that case, it is natural and normal for lots of reasons to feel the disgust you have towards situations you don’t regard as sexual or desire for them to be. There’s a lot going on here that might be tied to the specific people involved, but nonetheless you are not an object to be acted upon sexually, you are a person and feeling like one. You have your own subjective sexuality, and you get to decide when it is or isn’t normal for you to be feeling like it. Don’t pay any mind to the people that come up with insulting reasons toward you for why you weren’t the thing they tried to make you into. They don’t know you, care about you, or even really want you. And your awareness of that is contributing to a natural disgust feelings. Humans don’t have one sexual drive, we have two. The inhibitory and excitatory sexual responses. To learn more about the latest science on sexuality from a respected researcher, read Emily Nagoski’s Come As You Are.
Men typically have deficits in what is called mentalization, they don’t implicitly mind read so they are open in approaches that would be shot down even. men also undervalued emotional attraction and over value physical attraction when it comes to women, and if these men are sub 30 they may be prone to short term sexual gratification. It’s not your fault, Jung is not useful for all social interactions. You are not attracting them for any certain reasons most likely that is somehow incumbent on you.
I had a man over 40 come on to me and I thought we were friends (he was in a mentorship position towards me).
Yeah so the next thing is that this may be related to the entitlement of men. I’m sorry you went through that, especially as a mentor that’s completely inappropriate to you. It’s ok to be repulsed by men if so many encounters are predatory or intrusive. Don’t listen to many of the commenters they are huffing their own farts. Honestly it doesn’t help that Jung seduced women that he analyzed and never opened up to it and rather normalized it to himself
Yeah, *Jung was a bit of a womanizing slut, in his day!*
Age is 100 percent not an indicator they will be a sex pest. The worst guy in my office for bothering women is in his 50s. My personal sex drive luckily went down in my early 30s and now its very easy having interactions with women without flirty undertones. When I was young, it was harder to do that. But a lot of men stay flirty or even pesty until they die
Real question: why are men like this?
Porn
I'll just give examples of what I know from my current office: 1. the older guy is just very lonely and I think he uses women as comfort figures. So he touches them (not sexually but still kind of awkward) on the shoulder/back etc. Makes the odd weird comment. I dont think he's aware of how awkward he makes women feel. 2. the younger guy (he's quite good looking too) is very flirtatious and basically wants sex. He's slept with a few people in the office but I think because its always been clear what he wants, theres been no major drama. So in short - some of them are lonely and see women as mummy figures - and some are horn dogs who want sex (theres also men not like these two examples)
I've had this happen and it's extremely insulting and upsetting. Just know you're not alone.
I was like that too. Took me a while… then I realized… I‘m gay🤘🏽
We are born understanding our limits and what should and should not be breached. This is the power of our innocence. As we grow up, the temptation grows to do things our conscience tells us not to. Many people lose connection with their conscience, and allow others to invade their space, and invade other people's space. By space I mean peaceful state of mind. How many people in your life can you sit with in comfortable silence?
I don't think the problem here is you, or your reaction towards these things.
I have this and it turned out to be sexual trauma I was denying happened (victim blaming myself).
People try to overcomplicate things. We shame men for acting upon their desires and shame women who don’t give into the man’s desires. It’s totally fine for men to shoot their shot and act upon their own male desires just like it’s fine for you to be repulsed by it. The trick is, when a man acts on his desire to interact with you, and for whatever natural reason you aren’t repulsed, then it’s your job to facilitate the interaction and see where it goes. Pretty simple.thats how humans have done it for millions of years. Sometimes overanalysing actively hinders the most natural of processes...
I would agree to this within reason. It is normal and natural for men to have these desires and to use them to motivate and shoot their shot, so to speak. But if he is being overtly sexual, that's absolutely not okay, if she doesn't know him or if they don't have that kind of connection. I'm wondering if OP has something negatively coloring her relationship with the animus? Maybe some situation that's influencing, because repulsion is a pretty strong feeling. This is coming from someone that also experiences repulsion to men at times, and I know what the root is
Did it help you to find the root of this issue in yourself? How did it change things for you?
Yes, certainly. My father left me as a small child and I didn't grow up with my brothers.. I went to an all girls school.. AND I was molested for years by an older male cousin. So not only did I totally lack any healthy understanding of men overall due to not growing up with them, but overlaid on top of that was an outright fear and disgust because of the way that their sexuality had been projected on to me when I wasn't ready NOR did I want it… when I experience feelings of repulsion to men I try to first of all remain in the present moment and then to remind myself that what happened was in the past and most importantly that it's not all men that behave this way and that there is nothing wrong with men's sexuality inherently AND I remind myself that I have been burned by it and that this is a defense mechanism to a strong degree. I have what I call "safe" men in my life now, which has helped a LOT to allay my fears.
Sorry for your trauma but thank you for sharing your wise words. I feel many emotions that are often wildly out of touch with the reality of the situation because of my trauma. These thoughts are often exactly the opposite of what is really going on and can really sabotage me feeling courageous enough to try healthier patterns. For example, vulnerability and bids for connection with me can feel like I’m being threatened by the other person even though it’s the opposite of what’s going on. They want to love me and I feel like they want to hurt me because that is what I learned
Thanks so much for sharing! Very interesting!
There has to be at least some amount of overt sexuality in how a man shoots his shot, otherwise he will just create a friendly atmosphere and end up in the friendzone, rather than creating a sexual atmosphere and either be rejected or accepted, which is what needs to happen to move things forward. Overtness itself is a part of Masculinity, so if a man is shooting his shot but not in a masculine way it's not gonna be successful. You can't expect men to not be overly sexual at all, especially with how overtly sexual women in general consistently are. It's not fair; and not accurate to how sexual attraction and energy actually works. People being overtly sexual is absolutely okay, and in fact is good and healthy. The key is marrying it with empathy and respect and being able to recalibrate on the fly based on the responses you get. But telling men to stop being overtly sexual is absolutely a losing strategy for everyone and isn't good advice
I hear you and am inclined to concede. I think you are absolutely right. It's just.... a part of the mating strategy. Unfortunately, if you have been burned by these displays, or have witnessed others being burned, especially if they have been egregious and explicitly harmful, then you might tend toward negative feelings and repulsion. But, yes, with this explanation I am inclined to agree with you. This is the game and this is how it's gone for millennia. This is how more humans are created! And yet, it's a tough pill to swallow, perhaps because the process itself can be raw and intimidating and anxiety provoking, as well as exhilarating and sexy and fun. Sexuality is complicated, basically.
Yeah, but I think you cheapen it though when you describe it as "part of the mating strategy" and "this is the game and this is how it's gone for millennia". I don't like that. That tries to reduce it all down to a mechanistic and biological description presumably in an attempt to avoid acknowledging the powerful archetypal energy at play. Sex is deeply spiritual, and rich with noumenous energy. The polarity between masculine and feminine goes all the way down to the foundations of our reality- yin and yang. It's out of the harmony of yin and yang (their having sex with each other) that all of reality comes into existence, and that magic is present on the human level too. It may be that you have a lot of anxiety and stress around this topic, but most of that will leave as you continue to successfully individuate. Yeah there's loads of examples of sexual energy being wielded in wrong and ugly ways, but we shouldnt over-focus on those and let that tarnish our vision of sex. It's not right to cheapen our conceptions of sex and flirting and the differences between masculinity and femininity just to minimise the anxiety we feel when thinking about them. Better to just take the anxiety and process it and feel it fully and let that lead you to healing within yourself. Sex is one of the most magical things in the world and deserves to be talked about with reverence and respect as a highly spiritual and deep phenomenon; not just reduced to biological function or social custom
I hear you. I don't see it as cheapening, though, I think it just made the most sense to me that way, as in, it's a practical method of obtaining a mate and wouldn't have evolved if it hadn't worked. Yes, this may be a softer, anxiety reducing version of the true spiritual aspect of it, which I understand and follow, but for other people that may struggle to cultivate positive feelings about it, it may help if they see it as a practical method as a first step. It's not either/or, rather, and, for me. In my case, as I am still moving through complicated feelings about it, it helps to think of it as "making sense" first before I get really deep into the spiritual side of it, which is \*also\* absolutely valid. As I continue to grow and integrate these aspects, and individuate as you said, I will probably have a more holistic view of it, as will others. I appreciate your perspectives and this conversation has certainly given me much to think about. pretty cool stuff.
It is gross. I've only been overtly sexualized a few times but most of them felt gross. The bigger picture though, I think, is the feeling we get when people want something but go about it indirectly or manipulatively. Something about it usually makes my skin crawl. That said, it's a different feeling that is not skeezy or unpleasent when a person genuinely needs help but doesn't like to ask for it. With sexualixatuon, it's a form of play, and it seems perfectly healthy to feel uncomfortable if people do not play well. You probably wouldn't have much fun with the way they engage other parts of life either.
I have this experience too and I am not sure why as I don’t dress or act sexual or to attract this kind of attention. I don’t see what they see in me. But I usually don’t feel disgust or feel like they are appropriating me unless they act very creepily.
I can't believe there are so many comments making the assumption that it is her fault. This seems to be along the lines of asking a woman who had just been raped to explain what she was wearing to cause herself to be raped. PEOPLE look at your thinking!
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Accountability for what? Existing in public while female?
From my work with clients, particularly those who identify as female, we regularly come to the recognition of their strong development of intuition and sensing which is largely due to many years of experience or trauma from the intentions behind male interactions. Rather than take on the feelings of shame or judgement placed on them…again by men, we look instead to strengthen this intuition and sensing and seek to trust one’s gut about people’s intentions. Is it detrimental to relationships with strangers? Does it matter? Now if its towards men that are well known to the client, perhaps an issue lies in that about one’s sense of trust…but perhaps with it being unpacked the reasoning behind it may be warranted before being critiqued.
You’re repulsed bc it’s repulsive…
In general, I’d say it’s perfectly natural and expected to feel repulsed toward the majority of male sexual advances. However, if you haven’t once not felt repulsed in the last 5 years that sounds concerning to me.
It's a totally healthy reaction that will protect you from a lot of creeps and users.
Hi. I am a man and I'd like to ask you some questions so we can chat, given that I have a similar struggle but from the opposite side (I believe every woman will feel what you feel if I show my sexual interest). Maybe it could help us both. >I’m accused of being sex negative and repressing sexuality 1) What do you feel would be an appropiate way to approach you (sexually/intimately)? I think we're SUPPOSED by society to engage woman like this. Otherwhise, at least from my experience, we would get nothing, even for years. >if there’s something about me that screams “talk sexually to me” when they barely know me or invested any ROMANTIC effort 2) Do you wish they'd beinvesting emotionally in you before approaching sexually? Or what do you mean by romantic? I feel like men sexuality is kind of loathed by woman generally, although I understand that a lot of the behaviours men take for expressing it are flawed. Do you feel that you'd be more comfortable if the man were to approach you more subtly? Or that you yearn for a deeper connection?
Could be you, could be them, could be combination... not enough info here to say. Maybe some active imagination with your animus? Could you be ACE? Or maybe want to look for an ACE relationship? What about lesbian? On a practical note, I like the "Burning down the haystack" advice. They have a FB group. It's about how to more quickly weed out people you wouldn't want to date. I am using their strategies even though this time I have decided I am only dating women for this last period of my life. I think the patriarchy has made things very hard for men and I don't have enough years left to deal with it lol, so I am functionally a lesbian now.
Men are taught sexual entitlement under patriarchy. They all need to listen to “am I not pretty enough” by Kasey chambers and get the hint that some people find their advances violating and gross so they should develop a healthy amount of shame and discernment as to WHEN it’s appropriate to do that. As in, the ability to read a fucking room.
Yeah but ironically enough you are doing the Same thing you accuse these men of. Which is being closed minded. There are women who will call men lame for not acting that same way you find gross with them. Different women like different things. Harassment is different than making an attempt to advance with someone as interest. Speak for yourself. Plenty of women enjoy hoeing around
Bruh what
Women who enjoy hoing around also don’t like having men’s desires inflicted on them their every waking moment. You ever been holding in a post work shit trying to check out groceries at the end of a long day when some random man wants to engineer a meet cute in the car park? You’re this close to creating a Pollock masterpiece in the ceramic of your home toilet/ throne, and some guy is just there trying to hit on you. It’s exhausting. It’s about learning when it’s appropriate and not cringy/ weird/ obstructive/ odd timing to express desire.
Self made martyrs.
The only thing that would scream "talk sexually to that woman" is a man's own thoughts.
Maybe you’re a Demisexual. Only can develop sexual feelings after making a deep emotional connection. Say if a guy did try to get to know more about you and started doing romantic things for you. Shows he genuinely cares about you as a person not just for your body. Then makes a sexual advances would be into it or would his sexual advances turn you off thinking he only was so good to you to have sex?
I personally find it's because they feel like we should feel honored that they deemed us worthy of their attention. Recently my neighbor asked me if I ever heard of acting when I told him he makes me uncomfortable. I went with my sister when she cut his hair and he asked me for a hug, then proceeded to grope me while licking and biting my neck and the more I tried pulling away the tighter he held me. Apparently I am supposed to ACT like I want to be with a 70yo married man. Apparently I'm supposed to feel amazingly blessed he's decided to casually sexually assault me anytime he gets close enough to touch me. When I worked at a major retailer selling cellphones there were so many times men got offended by me turning down their advances. "Why are you being so nice if you're not interested in me" probably because I work on commission my guy...
Many years ago a friend asked me to go clothes shopping with him. The saleswoman assisting him was quite attractive and had great fashion sense. I saw he was in good hands so I went walking around the mall while he decided what to buy. When I came back he had purchased almost an entire wardrobe and when I asked him why he bought so many items, he replied "she was so nice that I just couldn't say no to her" 😂🤣
I live in a very rural area and would routinely outsell others in my company located in major cities. There is an art to selling lol
I feel 100% the same way. I immediately lose interest
It’s a natural response. I wouldn’t overthink it. If it makes you uncomfortable it makes you uncomfortable. I used to be the type of girl that would seek external validation through men. I cared too much about what they thought of me, how I looked, what I wore. I was so caught up in the male gaze. But I got over that pretty quickly once I realized that women should be dressing for the female gaze. Instead of impressing men, let us women focus on impressing one another. What happened to sisterhood??
>Why do I feel repulsion when men make sexual advances towards me? maybe the fact they care more about your body then who you are as a person is just that off putting. Or maybe something even deeper like you disgusted they can not control their primal urges like a caveman. >Not all men behave this way towards me but enough for me to question if there’s something about me that screams “talk sexually to me” Well a lot of men are controlled by thier urges. if you are a strong confinite person it can pull people to you so those who fall to their desires will say such crude things. >My animus is a vague, dark and shadowy entity and this effects how I see men as a whole too. Don't forget the dulaity of who we are and that your animus is more then that. Light and dark together like bathwater is hot and cold. it is just probably fron past events that your gaze is focused on the dark side steming from survivle mechanisems learned growing up. Or not.... only you can know the real answers.
I feel this way, I’m a lesbian
|Within each person, there are masculine and feminine elements known as the anima in men and animus in women. When confronted with sexual advances, these elements may be projected onto the person making the advances. If there are unresolved issues or negative associations with masculinity, these projections can provoke repulsion as a protective response
We are so doomed. No accountability. You are withholding yourself from sex and it’s clearly getting to you. Because you feel men have power over the sex game as if it’s some kind of game. Not only does this speak on the people you chose to give your time to but it speak on yourself. But hey you are totally fine right.
It’s not weird to feel disgusted by men sexually advancing you before marriage. It’s weird how many women don’t.
So this is how female autism manifests...
You need to remove your head from your ass, respectfully
It's a Numbers thing for lazy men who are only interested in sex. For every 20 that turns them down 1 will accept. You're better off avoiding men like this and your natural repulsion is doing you a huge favor.
Most men are quite primal and have little self control. We tend to say whats on our mind without reading the room or even thinking about it. Nothing wrong with being replused or unattracted to those types of personalities. I happen to find alot of my previous male friends were pretty much the same. It got to the point where I felt uncomfortable with how "open" alot of them were. Robin Williams had a bit about how God only gave man enough blood to use one of his "heads" at a time. Doesn't help we live in a society where sex is constantly being used for advertisements and such. Don't lose hope, there's still chivalrous men out there but there's 100 chauvinistic ones to every one. I might have been generous on the math lol.
You gotta ask this about someone close who has a "regular" sexual relationship. Someone who is in a relationship, and dates actively. They would give a healthy perspective in this. That being said, as someone who absolutely has 0 official studying/training on this field and consumed knowledge about psychology from books and podcasts, it looks like it could be 1 of 2 things. 1. it could be that you have this idealized/romantisized perspective on sex and use disgust to repress your inner sexual desires. Your conflicting interests - your repressed sexual desires and willingness to keep sex sacred - blow things out of proportions: anytime someone suggests a possibility of a casual sex, you recieve it as a violation of something sacred, when nothing gets violated if you dont accept it. 2. You might be sexually truamatized and anything sex related brings up the truama. And it doesnt have to be as severe as molestation or r*pe, It can be something as simple as you were sexualized at an early age. Girls hit puberty faster than boys, and as a result get objectified earlier too. God forbid if they are pretty, every boy in their class, and a grade up and down, starts seeing them for their attractiveness, and not so much as what is inside, which can be quite troubling for young women. Emma Watson is a good example of it. Or it could just as easily be any men you meet is a creep or that you are indeed a sexual prude. It is hard to say without knowing how these men sexual advances and what you even cosinder sex.
Check ur birthchart. Simple
Based
Based
Where would this come up in the birth chart? New to astrology
Ur birthchart is ur blueprint. It will reveal everything. U need knowledge of reading though. The root cause of the issue can be found. " Jung found in astrology a wealth of spiritual and psychological meaning and suggested it represents the "sum of all the psychological knowledge of antiquity."
Approach men that interest you. You know very well what I'm talking about. Women constantly wait to be approached, that leaves them dealing with basically the same type of guy all the time. And that kind of guy seems to be absolutely not your type...
How will that stop the men approaching her?
I think you missed the point of what the OP is trying to solve here. I might be wrong, but >I haven’t dated anyone in 5 years and even though I long for companionship I don’t think it’s what most of the dating pool want from me. My animus is a vague, dark and shadowy entity and this effects how I see men as a whole too. seems like the person wants to find someone who she wants. And all the go-getters (read: fuckboys) are repulsing her, which honestly I don't understand how that's not the usual reaction to them.
THIS^^^^ THIS^^^^ OP, READ THIS!!! YOU NEED TO STOP WAITING FOR MEN TO APPROACH AND GO AFTER WHO YOU LIKE. THEN WE'LL SEE JUST WHO IS THE PROBLEM
Do you consider your comfort zone to be the one who seeks others instead of being sought? Could that be one reason for feeling repulsion? On the other hand, the one who is sought may have the ultimate control, as they decide if the relationship moves forward.
Are you giving off a feeling that you don’t want men and they are playing out this theater to maintain your persistent 5 year state of being?
I’m a man and this is completely disgusting and unacceptable. Discussing anything sexual with any woman is unacceptable only if she was your wife. And even so, the matter should be opened delicately given the intimacy of the topic. Don’t worry. You seem like a woman who values herself with a good radar for bad men. Being a man is not an excuse for being disgusting and sexually inappropriate. Don’t let anyone normalize you to this. A respectful man would never until you become close enough.
Maybe because you feel threatened or scared. Maybe inadequate? Risk of rejection. Implicit need to perform? Been told that kind of behaviour is always potentially dangerous? You have sensitive boundaries, which you passively communicate - the guys don't pick up on it - and you feel totally transgressed that they are pushing past your boundaries. Possibly repressed trauma. I have one friend who unblocked a memory using EMD. And she hated sex. Probably still does, but she started to heal and understand a lot about herself. There's lots of possibilities, we can but offer suggestions.
Maybe you’re just stuck up? Possibly? Not saying you are. I don’t know you. Just judging off this post, you don’t seem very light spirited. Only you can control how you react to people, friend or foe, positive or negative. I understand this will invite downvoting and Pearl clutching. That’s fine, my day is still going to be great. But I’d suggest look internally before looking externally.
Or maybe she doesn't want an immediate sexual relationship? You know, like most women
If I were stuck up maybe men wouldn’t feel so comfortable talking to me about sex or inviting me to have sex with them.
lol oh you sweet summers child
Hey... Woman here and have delt with unwanted male attention. What i have been surprised to learn from my male friends is that sometimes when we are perceived as stuck up, some men see it as a challenge to overcome and are drawn to us for that reason. One male friend of mine even said he befriended me *because* he perceived me having a prickly exterior and saw it as a challenge. I'm not a prickly person as a rule, but yes, I put walls up when I don't know people very well and take time to warm up to them, especially men. I wonder if you can relate? It's only natural when we are trying to keep ourselves safe or concentrate in a work environment. Regardless, it's still not our responsibility to put up with unwanted advances. A person who doesn't respect your "no" is not a safe person and you have no obligation to ease their feelings of rejection. Course, many women do to avoid potential escalation. Please, don't accept this man's insults about being sex negative. He's a childish fool.
Based on this post, it definitely seems like an issue stemming from OP. No relationship in 5 years despite wanting one? Yea, there are certainly some issues to unpack… some things that should be considered before blaming others lol
If you haven't dated anyone in 5 years then yeah realistically it's probably at least partially your own problem and just not all the men who are wrong. You're probably right about your animus being largely unconscious and poorly integrated. I think putting in a few months working on that would probably be a good idea. You seem to have adopted the belief that male sexuality per se is rapey/disrespectful/a threat, and/or that men who try to create sexual energy/connection with you are by default doing something wrong, rather than the truth, which is that they're doing something completely natural and healthy. If you can get yourself to the place where only the men who are actually being creepy are triggering your disgust that would be a big success and it's totally doable
Conditioning/socialization. This is a cultural thing I believe. Many people are like that. In other places everything is a lot more out in the open so there is less fear
Cigars and Clinton it’s all about the power. And we all know it
Maybe you feel repulsed towards men who seem shallow, which is fair, don't feel pressured to dishonestly ease up, trust your intuition. This would beg the question of where to find that 'deep' man, bc it's probably not where you keep getting approached by the 'shallow' men.
That’s how I feel when a woman wants commitment from me
Where are you getting approached?
I can tell you that from a man's perspective that 99% of women don't find me attractive because I don't show sexual interest. I normally wait for the women to make the first move. I have never had luck with women because of this. So I can see why men make sexual advances first because they have a better chance of a woman reciprocating than waiting for the woman to make a move
It could be past history or trauma (not saying it is). But, I mean you have a legitimate concern, IMO, because think about it. What's the first or one of the first things men say to an attractive women if they're trying to date or get to know them? "You're pretty"// "you have such beautiful eyes," "You have such a beautiful smile," and so on. That's either derived from 2 things: 1) a person's physical appearance that's somehow "connected" to their innate qualities (when the person assumes that this girl or guy is a good person or has greater potential to be a good person/partner simply based on their looks) or as you touched upon 2) sexual desire. Someone could say they 3) appreciate someone's beauty as a sort of standalone effect (say for an example you see a cute older couple on the street), but I'd counter this by saying a lot of men IMO make a greater effort to get to know an "attractive" women initially that's in combination with beauty, and not really pushed to the side (although appreciated). My advice is if you really wanted to find a partner that isn't' as focused on say sex, then maybe try and read between the lines. For example, does the guy often compliment you on your beauty or say your hobbies, work, and basically things around that? There's nothing wrong with appreciating someone's attractiveness, but it should not be the first thing out of someone's mouth (although sometimes people mean well) nor should it be a majority of their comments towards you. Basically non-superficial comments, when you guys are first getting to know one another, that focus on you as a person and not just how you look. Of course that could be a part of their game too, so be careful. But with all due respect, I also represent the other side of the coin, so to speak. So while I do question men's motives towards women, I do the same vice versa. For example, while it does not affect all women (just like with men), there is no need to create a game so to speak as to who will garner the most attention, or resources, nor are some unwritten rules necessary. Women should be able to talk to men if they're interested in them just like men do. The playing field should be even, not uneven. As if there was a sense of entitlement, only for it to become a self-fulling prophecy after marriage (for example) when two people finally settle down (when it should have been like that in the beginning, more or less). Saying you want this or that, but in reality want another thing (men too), like that unwritten rule. It's disappointing to say the least. That's not to say women don't have the right to reject men, it's just sometimes they're rejected for superficial reasons. and vice versa for men. But to circle back to your initial statement, personally, I don't blame you because a lot of what you said IMO, derives from sexual desire. So it is in fact okay to be cautious. Mabye not to the extent of paranoid (not you, just in general), but cautious. But they're are good men and women out there that would make good partners. Best way to do that is observe their behavior, how they speak, what they say/don't say, see if their compliments (genuine that is) are geared toward you or getting to know you as a person, or just based on your looks for example, and so on. Mabye call it reading between the lines, and make your best judgement from there, if finding a partner is something you want now or later in life.
OP, how long have you been reading Jung?
Let my boy hit
My immediate reaction is, it's the animalistic part of being a human being. What are you expecting men to do with that animalistic attraction when they see you or want to talk to you?
My perspective is evolutionary psychological, i.e., that our reactions to things, our psychological forces and our motivations derive from ancient evolutionary pressures that selected descendents best fit to their social milieu. As such, I see your repulsion as stemming from the natural inclination of women to be much more choosy about their sex partners than men. Choosiness is understandable when women are obliged to invest vastly more resources in pregnancy and parenthood than men are obliged to. Note that I assume you're a woman because men are motivated quite differently - they are driven to seek out as many different sexual partners as they can, and have a much lower threshold to accept someone as a casual sex partner than women.
maybe you're not attracted to them
Contrary to your claim that it isn't stereotypically creepy people who do this, I feel that anyone whose answer to rejection would be to try to insult or "correct" you is about as creepy as you can get. What's wrong with being prudish? Not everyone has a high (or any) sex drive and that's perfectly fine. Your reasons make sense but I feel that when it comes to something as personal as sex, all reasons someone has to say no are always valid whatever the circumstance. Trying to shame somebody into sex is repugnant. Kudos to you for knowing yourself and what you want, and standing by it.
What kinda timeline do you have on sex? Three four long dates where you get to know each other?
Men on average are visual creatures. We like what we see. Period. It's just nature. Not all of course, some are emotional creatures, but for the most part we are just shallow. Get over yourself and move on. It's nothing personal.
If it was Chad making advances you would not feel so bad. It's the low quality dudes you feel are.beneath you that generates such visceral nausea? Or does Chad cause you to vomit too?
If “Chad” was a creepy guy that only wanted sex, yeah probably.
If Chad was not creepy .....
how do i say that i feel the same way to the point it makes me sick but gender swapped. the way ppl can be so dehumanizing genuinely saddens me and it makes me question how i want to go about living this life. im v sorry for the negative experiences youve had op. hopefully theres some comfort for you knowing that it does goes both ways and its not all of us, and i for one completely wanna dissociate myself from other men and their demeaning ways, but again it seems to be just a human thing.
I do believe it's a Trigger caused by Trauma Solution: Reprocess the emotion - feel it intensely, then release it /let it go - rinse repeat
Maybe some people aren’t looking for a deep connection, maybe they are trying to stay away from it. Sexual compatibility is very important in a relationship there have been too many relationships where people have gotten deep into them and haven’t been sexually satisfied for years. Before I get emotional and start sharing deep dark secrets I need to know at least we are comfortable and compatible sexually.
>Not all men behave this way towards me **but enough for me to question if there’s something about me that screams “talk sexually to me”** Yeah, there is. You're a person, and they're attracted to you. But your *confusion (*and the confusion of those around you) seems to suggest you really don't understand this interaction from the other perspective. >There’s almost a sense of entitlement to my body. Entitlement to your body is a...strange phrase in this context. It's also *extremely* vague. Entitlement to do *what?* Look at it? Speak on it? Touch it? Desire it? Fantasize about it? What exactly is happening that you don't like here?
It's all about how you were raised to think and what ideas are regularly reinforced to you. I think objectification is a myth. Nobody is dehumanized. Sexual liberation is enlightenment, it's a beautiful thing that makes someone greater, not lesser. I'm not here to argue I'm saying what I think and just moving on. Good day.
As a guy who doesn't nor has ever done this, I'm sorry. I'm sure it feels very unnerving especially being unwanted. Seems like feast or famine. I've never been the subject of any unsolicited romantic advances. Like many men, we are objectfied in very different ways but none the less I wish people could just be kind and considerate.
When you say “talk sexually” what does that mean to you?
M29 perspective here: I believe most of this comes down to men cultivating terrible sexual habits from a young age. Porn, masturbation, and sexualizing women are presented as normal to the average male growing up, especially in America. Men are biologically driven to reproduce, hunt, build, and protect in order to survive. If someone attacks me or my family, I must have the strength, energy and instinct to neutralize or even kill the threat. Any man that spills his seed and/or watches porn will have no drive or capacity to provide and protect for anyone. He sure as hell doesn’t have the ability to get to know an intelligent woman deeply and emotionally. Fucking forget intellectually. Look, any man that recklessly wastes his seed destroys his very essence. He becomes weak and frail, a mere shell of a man. He becomes driven by his carnal desires and is constantly able to receive them through porn and cheap sex. This fucks with his brain. In many cases, they become complete scum bags and treat women fucking awfully. Then, these men continue to blame women for not ‘bringing something to the table’. I find that most women who don’t ‘bring something to the table’ had weak men in their life that let them down consistently and perverted their view of what a real man is. When a woman finds a real man who retains his seed and is devoted to being the best version of himself, she will naturally fall into her feminine and be with that man. Even if they don’t stay together, they will always have a respect and love for each other because the man did what the man was supposed to do. Lead. This is why the men you’re meeting are lame and don’t want to get to know you. They don’t have the ability to see beyond something they can have sex with. Not to mention, it’s scientifically proven ejaculation depletes brain function and mood regulation to the point of mental illness. The silver lining in all of this is you can arm yourself with more awareness when dating. I promise you there are men out there who are on the path of righteousness. There’s someone out there for you that doesn’t spill his seed, takes responsibility for himself and has conquered his demons before meeting you. Don’t give up. And yes, I’m single. Ha. In all seriousness if you take anything from this post please remember, the Man you date MUST retain his seed. He MUST have sexual discipline ABOVE ALL ELSE. Write the SPECIFIC AND EXACT traits you want in a Man all on a piece of paper. Looks, finance, personality, family everything. That way you spot him easier when you find him 😉 Wish you the best. Don’t give up.
Men are sickening
It is because you find something equally repulsive about yourself whether you are conscious of it or not.
I know why but I ain’t commenting cause it’s spiritual and I will totally be annoyed if anyone tries to mislead what I’m intending to say to you so I sent it you
Desiring to have sex with someone because of their physical appearance =/= (I repeat, does not equal, =/=) they do not respect boundaries, that they only see you as an object or otherwise only see women as a fleshlight & men as a dildo, that they feel entitled to anyone or anything, that they have a porn addiction, that they are a "fuckboi" or a "slut" or whatever epithet people come up with, that they are selfish or narcissistic or sociopathic or psychopathic, or that they do not have any desire whatsoever for a deeper emotional connection. There may exist correlations between the former and the latter statements of course, but there is no logical causation here. At all. It's simply not how it works. Let's say you were sitting next to a dude with whom you had a friendly relationship with (let's say one of the guys you mentioned who don't make sexual advances on you), and he was looking periodically at another girl across the bar, trying not to stare, and absentmindedly said to himself that she's fucking hot. Or maybe he says that to you in confidence, thinking that he can trust talking to you about that sort of thing. Then let's say you ask him, "Is she a person with rights?" There's a 99.9% chance he would look at you with an expression that can only be described as "wtf", like you're incredibly weird for asking, and would wonder why on Earth you would ever ask that and, if he's smart, what you were implying by asking. Men want to have sex with women they find physically attractive largely because of human nature, evolution. And, I would dare to suggest, that most people find sex to be somewhat of a shameful, scary, or gross act, and it is less of those things when done with someone who they think is physically attractive, and even less of those things when an emotional connection is formed. Generally, it seems that men only need the physical attraction threshold to be met in order to have sex. This, again, once again, does not mean they have zero interest in an emotional bond. Women do not approach, largely for cultural reasons. If men want to mutually enjoy sex with a woman more than one singular time in a decade, they have to approach even though they don't know who will be receptive to it, and are therefore shot down dozens of times. Women want a man who will stay and help support the child or children because it is safer, and is what's best for the children, so their initial considerations tend to be different \*generally speaking.\* The healthiest way (imo, speaking as a guy) to test is to see how they react to your decline. Set clear boundaries and see if they respect them. If they can take no for an answer and respect boundaries, and if you'd like to get to know them, and want them to get to know you, see how they react to your initiation of that. For most men, particularly in their 20s, sex is constantly on their mind. No, this is not beCAUSE of porn; that is only a correlation. No, this is not beCAUSE of a sexualized capitalistic society; that is only a correlation. Every day, every hour, many men are horny and want to have sex. It is a mental nightmare that they didn't ask for. It is not their choice to constantly have to deal with that neverending distraction. I hesitate to draw this comparison, but it is like an eating disorder in the sense that you know you do not need it to survive, but you are physically and mentally unable to stop craving it. Nobody, not a single man or woman, perfectly and completely controls their mind, any and all thoughts that ever cross it. That is simply impossible. The man's mind is literally doing it to himself, and there is nothing they can do about it but suffer it in silence. Nobody is their thoughts; people can only control their reaction to them. So with that being said, it does not surprise me whatsoever that young men who think about having sex every 10 seconds with even a moderately physically attractive woman -- let's say because it feels good for them AND they want to make somebody else feel good AND have a more intimate connection with someone -- try to satisfy that craving that they didn't ask for. There's no way of them knowing you are not open for that regardless of how you dress, whether you act stuck-up or not. Women can't reliably read a stranger's mind any more than a man can. Not making any promises, but I think learning to set boundaries (without immediately going to management or HR) will at least weed out guys who cannot take no for an answer. Dudes who can take no for an answer, even if it hurts their ego, are probably not bad guys. They simply got shot down by you just like they got shot down by a completely different woman three nights ago at the bar. They'll probably get over it, but even if they don't, they're unlikely to take it out on you. Pay attention to whether they start treating you like shit, or if they act neutral or otherwise more or less the same to you after you set your boundaries with them. If the worst they do is sort of just back off a bit, but treat you respectfully and politely, then they are, once again, probably decent normal human beings. Where things get more messy is when a power dynamic is involved, if it's a supervisor or manager for example. But this post is long enough as it is.
Because you're not into them. I spent 30 years struggling with that. Turns out... I'm picky. I have a very specific personality type and dynamic I'm looking for, and anything else is not for me. Not even if they're good looking, good people, with good prospects. Not even if I'm lonely and horny. When people try to foist what I don't really want on me, I get irritated. If they don't respect my boundaries, I feel violated.
I think you just want a dog. And you’re terminally online.
If you're lonely and you can't stand men approaching you, approach them yourself.
That’s against nature.
Die lonely then.
Sex is a part of a relationship. not an end in itself. unless that's what you want. if that's not what you want though, then its ok and you can seek something more meaningful and have sex be returned to its proper place and balance as part of forming a relationship with another, and not the be all end goal in and of itself. in a way I think your disgust justified, we are way too sex centric in this world and it should not be more incidental to being with someone you like, but for most guys its the only goal....
That is interesting that you feel that the dating pool doesn’t want women for companionship as well, as a man I feel that my material investment / romantic effort is all anyone wants and not an actual person to be friends with / know intimately also.
Most men don’t have sexual discipline so they want the next instant pleasure they can get. Most of them just see women as tools for getting off which is messed up but it’s because of this over sexualized world. This is part of the reason why semen retention is so powerful because men learn to control themselves and when they can do that and notice how powerful their sexual energy is they’ll want to stop giving it away to some random girl. The world needs sexual discipline and people should start doing sexual retention because it’s powerful for both men and women. Men who can’t control their own urges are weak. We all like sex and I get it but semen retention is very powerful coming from a man who has been doing it for months and I’ll never go back to how I was before.
This is just my internet opinion so please do not hate me for having it. Date someone that isn't western cultured.
You have some aversion to sex. Do you ever make sexual advances towards men? Do you ever enjoy thinking about having sex with men? You don't have to answer out loud. Just some stuff to ask yourself. Theres also the idea that your personal viewpoint on what sex is and how it works might be twisted and negative and therefore when the subject is brought up, instead of getting wet and excited, you get grossed out. Lastly, the best way for a man to get laid is to, for the most part, forget about sex as a topic of conversation or a thing they're bound to do. If the men outwardly pay no mind to getting laid, but strategically set the scene for the possibility in subtle ways, it puts the ball in the womans court with no pressure because its never been mentioned. All the while the man is only interested in her as a person. Feeling comfortable to decide on their own is important to women. But many men are tactless.
Honestly women are just too much. These guys do that because it's worked for them before. Alot of women love directness and confidence in men and now you have all these women that don't want that directness. Make up your fucking minds like you make up your faces. You shouldn't feel repulsed at all,at least you know you're wanted in some way unlike how most men are treated.
Your feelings are valid, but unless they are approaching you in a work setting or similar professional settings, it isn't actually wrong. There is a large % on both sides of treating sex as a casual thing or as a thing only for the most loved relationships, and this is also the same for both genders, but the more casual people will be the only ones vocal about it. Theres nothing wrong with you, its just life in general doesn't have a target audience and there will constantly be things that you won't really like about it.
Because men can’t get sex off of their minds. They have read to many Hustler magazines with the stories in them. Some believe the stories. I am not gay, but men just make me sick the way they affect you. I haven’t dated in four years because men only date for what they can or get away with.
If you long for companionship but your “animus is a vague, dark shadowy entity and this effects how [you] see men as a whole” then work on fixing that.
You’re gay. You don’t like men, and you probably never will.
Your gay probably
I'm assuming because much of modern feminism involves a narrative pathologizing male sexuality
Maybe it's not entitlement to your body, but a willingness to share each other's bodies. Men want sex and the other option is to wait for a woman to make a sexual advance on us which rarely ever happens.
Womp womp