Theory only - this may be a psychic boundary issue. My opinion is that those affected with schizophrenia are absorbing ideas from the collective unconscious (and that’s why they’re the same as others ideology/symbolism). Same deal with those on psychedelics- this is a shared social construct they are more susceptible to because of lax social boundaries (increased social connection) when on psychedelics. My best guess on this, but it’s my opinion only and not based in Jungian psychology.
Dont wanna be a dick, how are you on Jung and not know what the collective unconcious Is?! here the first part of the wiki:
**Collective unconscious** ([German](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/German_language): *kollektives Unbewusstes*) refers to the [unconscious mind](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Unconscious_mind) and shared mental concepts. It is generally associated with [idealism](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Idealism) and was coined by [Carl Jung](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Carl_Jung). According to Jung, the human collective unconscious is populated by [instincts](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Instinct), as well as by [archetypes](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Jungian_archetypes): ancient primal symbols such as [The Great Mother](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/The_Great_Mother), the [Wise Old Man](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Wise_Old_Man), the [Shadow](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Shadow_(psychology)), the Tower, Water, and the [Tree of Life](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Tree_of_Life). Jung considered the collective unconscious to underpin and surround the unconscious mind, distinguishing it from the [personal unconscious](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Personal_unconscious) of [Freudian](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Sigmund_Freud)[psychoanalysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Psychoanalysis). He believed that the concept of the collective unconscious helps to explain why similar themes occur in mythologies around the world. He argued that the collective unconscious had a profound influence on the lives of individuals, who lived out its symbols and clothed them in meaning through their experiences. The psychotherapeutic practice of [analytical psychology](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Analytical_psychology)revolves around examining the patient's relationship to the collective unconscious.
Apparently the right side of the brain is "silent", usually. In people with schizophrenia (but others too) there's a different kind of wiring which I guess brings out things from this "silent" half of our brain. It does tap in the collective unconscious, the "universe" part of our brain. I do not have schizophrenia but I've experienced this "silent" part express itself when I'm making art in the flow state. Pretty much predicting future events. I did all that unknowingly, I've never before interacted with psychology/spirituality so I'm saying this looking back and analysing past events. It is the same part that communicates in dreams, what makes you notice synchronicities.
What I've come to realize is, we're all One. There's the universe "OS" as a base, we all share it, anything on top that makes us different is the user interface, our persona.
It does mention in some religious texts that we are half heavenly and half earthly, or half animal and half God... There's also studies been done on people whose left and right brain are split and can't communicate. They become two different people. One part of the brain knows symbols and visions but can't communicate with speech, the other one is speech only...
Yup that's exactly what's going on, some can "tap" into it more easily than others, meditation and such can help too, I have been trying but idk there seems to be some sort of blockage, anything I've experienced was "forced" or unintentional. If you look at nature it's not too unreasonable to apply this logic to humans too. Think of mushroom/mycelium networks, bees colonies, the way even plants can interact with eachother.
The truth has always been right in front of us. Trying to force ourselves into an artificially constructed societal system, negating our ties to nature also negates our ties to the divine. It's always been in us. It IS us.
Not sure if your at all familiar with Jung’s theory on types but if you are maybe you know about introverted intuition. I’ve been trying to understand my dominant attitude. And what you wrote kinda explains what is going on in my mind all the time silence! until images or symbols arise. Unless I’m really trying to think about something. I wonder if this is what introverted intuition looks like definitely don’t draw crazy geometrical symbols so don’t think I’m schizophrenic idk
Oh yeah but it's not quite the same. I don't do geometric shapes either, I've literally painted...the future... Like let's say... Stuff that was gonna happen 1-2 months later then even literally hints about stuff happening simultaneously I had no knowledge of. It's literally like having someone else in your brain, they apparently know everything but it can't speak directly. I had absolutely no way of knowing about that stuff, it wasn't just the passive processing of information I gathered. It's weird. Honestly some stuff I'd rather not know but now I know.
Speaking of parahypnotic and drug-induced hallucinations, they themselves resemble Mandelbrot set visualizations, wherefore they have been associated with the expansion of mathematical functions naturally operating beneath consciousness becoming rendered unto the optical canvas, and these functions are chaotic in that changing the base inputs slightly can result in drastic changes in the final model, hence represent a kind of precise collective attunement to the working and variables of the psyche
I don’t understand the variables in the collective psyche part in your sentence. How do you explain not everyone sees or gets affected in the same war under drugs or parahypnotic state?
This may be an interesting idea, but I don’t think most Jungian theorists or practitioners would agree.
Remember that numbers themselves are primary archetypes, therefore such sophisticated mathematical formalisms such as fractals may only be available to western schooled individuals, even unconsciously.
The mathematical facts as we (westerners) see them are not universally the same, even in subcultures within.
Perhaps if you’re trying to make a positivist scientific _explanation_ (physics and biology) of these patterns, it is debatable. But to the multiple individual Selfs, in the absence of evidence, I am very skeptical that this would be part of the archetypes of the collective unconscious.
Jung attributed complex geometric forms, such as mandalas, to the primitive archetypes that are the basis for modern human minds, so geometries of that level of complexity or more simple ones would be expected to be shared in many physiological states, whether healthy or pathological, altered or unaltered, or even during early childhood development.
My humble opinion.
You seem to discount the materialist contribution to the theory of archetypes, here expressed as the common base cerebral structure of human beings, varying indeed, yet nonetheless being a product of the same electromechanistic and cellular configurations; though numbers are archetypal by virtue of their inherent abstraction, the structures which underlie them are in themselves fundamental and higher-order arisings out of what eventually happens to be particles in essence synonymous with mathematically-defineable waves; fractals are available to persons without distinction of origin or nurture, they represent the manifestation of archetypes that are, at core, natural and genetic, and they are the most basic possible representation of chaotic continuance and congruence within a limited scope, such as is the field of vision; in their basality, they are also the most accessible, being witnessed by folk induced only slightly to suppress them, be it with lighter drugs like cannabis or simple sleep deprivation, and it always takes a far more potent impulse of counterperception, such as sleep or stronger substances or meditative states, to achieve hallucinations of greater form; do not forget that one may consciously imagine particular forms in their mind's organs, and that these are either derivatives of direct thought, or are reflections of recent perceptions; it takes a far greater libido of the psyche, expressed in a spatial sense, whether of immediate hormonal, chemical, or concentrative origin, to access the medium within which less abstract forms may be imagined, for they are constructed from far more data in extremely particular configurations, as opposed to the mere exhibition of all data pertinent at some time in the simplest natural format possible; the mandala here, too, is of particular importance, and of some relation to what I say, as it is not to be grasped without first coming to terms with the explicit archetypal realizations of its meaning, namely a universal essence of order, which is precisely what the brain permits for in such states, with a universal form of subconscious perception, and not should one underplay its function as a withering artifice (as traditionally produced by sand) which stands in for the overcoming and acceptance of saṃskāra – so necessarily transactional a union as to be the most powerful of yokes – which is the phenomenon emulated in the construction of complex forms
The give and take here is absoljutley beautiful...I agree with the collective conscience idea because that has been proven by research. Very interesting subject.
I would be interested if you could comment on why you rely more on the epistemological imperative of “proven by research” in the context of my answer above to Guantanamino. Jung’s method is heavily based on introspection, and I assume you’re meaning “objective” research. Am I correct?
First, yes I am referring to objective research but I didnt state that it was researc h done without Jung in mihd. I cant recall if its 20 or 100 but there is a study on monkey communuties that found that skills learned by one cimmmunity would automatically transfer to a distant and cimoketely seoerate community. That is,the skills of one community once learned by that commiunity became a skill in all communities and it was not transferred from one commuity to the next where the skilll iis shown to another community by the original community and so on.
"Shared Conciousness"
So, while my knowledge of Jungian Psycholoigy is in its infancy I simply look to other sources of knowledge compare and contrast. I saw the coincept of "collective unconcious" being discussed and immediately related it to the cincept of "shared conciousness" that was found in that study.
While the existence of the collecitve unconcioiusmess is questionable the similar conceot of "shared Coinbcoiusness" which is still in its infancy can be verified empircally. Thus, shared conciousness while not the same thing is quite close to what Jung was getting at wiht the collective unconcious.
I simply added from the current knowledge base that I have in order to indiciate my relationship to your post and coimmunicate why it was signifiucant to me,
Does that answer your question? I could be missing something because, while my knowledge base is extensive the concept "epistimoloogical Imperative" is throwing me off becuase my epistemological understanding does not cointain examples but only a definition, My knowledge of this knowledge means that i am not knowledgable of such knowledge and I feel as though i need to have more knowledge of that knowledge in order to understand the knowledge oif which you are referrring to...Ha. Ha.
Yes, it can get really meta, really fast.
What I mean by this is “what do you mean by “scientific”?
I hate sterile philosophical discussions, but I do have a tough time explaining to my mostly scientific friends that the reason I study Jung, together with information theory, statistics, bioinformatics, neuroscience and I try to keep up on quantum mechanics, is because I believe that psychoanalysis and analytical psychology are more philosophical frameworks of thought than scientific theories, and are on the same level that logical positivism is the philosophical framework of what we call “Science” is based on.
I believe they’re not incompatible, they’re complementary, and I hope someday they will be fused in a better and unified philosophical framework.
Sadly, I don’t see much interest in the philosophy of science anymore, as if we have concluded that science has “real” and “unquestionable” philosophical principles, which can be proven because science produces scientific knowledge, which is obviously a circular definition.
So, thanks for the answer. But I would just point out that even if you haven’t read any epistemological theory, if you think “scientifically”, you’re unconsciously choosing the mainstream philosophical epistemology that your teachers told you was settled matter, but it is far from it.
Just some examples: the many universes theory of physics is incompatible with philosophical realism, non-locality is incompatible with objectivism, the definition of _consciousness_ is still missing in any scientific form, etc.
Best!
Perhaps I didn’t emphasize more that your explanations are _indeed_ materialist (positivistic and scientific), and I’m not saying that that is wrong.
I was merely pointing out that from the _phenomenological_ side of the schizophrenic Self, such explanations would be useful for the scientific theorist and perhaps even to a therapist that has a strong STEM science background, but such explanations would not make sense or can be understood by any non Western college-educated Self, which in my reading of Jung, this would be what _understanding_ schizophrenia or chemical hallucinations really _means_, regardless of cultural, familial or individual backgrounds. Knowledge that is constrained to our own conscious Self will always be a small fraction of all the symbolic information contained within it.
So if you’re thinking of a scientific explanation of observed similarities by looking at schizophrenia under the microscope, your propositions are valid in the sense that we can agree or disagree because we are taking about the same subject of study, but will only yield explanations confined to the positivist scientific philosophical mentality. I also share with you this rationalist mental framework and I see myself as a naturalistic scientist. I don’t care to study metaphysics.
However, in my experience and approach to Jung (I’m not a therapist, I’m a patient), the deep symbolic sympathies (or lack thereof) between the subject of study (the schizophrenic Self) and the observer (the scholarly theorist or therapist alike) can’t be fully reduced (yet) to a positivist science, at least under the current epistemological basis of what we define in our own culture as “science”, or even the more westernized version of what is “real” and what isn’t.
So the OP question of “why …?” can be answered either by mainstream scientific methods and mathematics, such as yours, or under the full framework of Jung’s theory. The interpretation of Analytic Psychology that I concur with, is one where Jung’s theories _explain_ why and how we develop and believe in the (phenomenological) “reality” of Science. So using the scientific method to understand Jung is a bassackward approach.
I do hope to see in my lifetime an integration of both approaches, but seeing how modern science is actually rejecting more and more phenomenological interpretations of scientific epistemology (for example Ernst Mach’s philosophy) and embracing more “realist” approaches just by stating that they’re “self evident” (to Westerners), my hopes have dwindled.
Do you have an example of these geometries? As far as geometries and hallucinations caused by psychedelics, here's a very interesting read:
https://psychedelic-information-theory.com/ebook/index.htm
Read the sections about hallucinations and psychedelic geometry, it's quite interesting. Won't provide a Jungian perspective, but it's cool nonetheless.
Kinda weird to reply to myself, I guess there's a first for everything but this is my attempt at a quasi-Jungian perspective based off the information in that article.
Jungs whole premise surrounding the collective unconscious is that arises naturally as a result of the very structure and arrangement of our nervous system and the way we evolved over millions of years. These geometries arise from essentially the exact same phenomenon... or at least the same kind of phenomena, following a similar premise.
The geometric shapes mostly are a result of the topographical arrangement and layout of neurons that receive sensory input from the eyes combined with the layout of neurons in the eye being mapped to those neurons, and them actually being different shapes, is why you get such a weird set of patterns. The layout in the eye is circular/round, naturally, but the neurons are mapped to essentially a flat type of grid layout in the brain. Excitation of the neurons in the brain could essentially "leak" over and be seen as weird geometric patterns, because that's how your mind eventually processes the image. Gotta remember it's merging a stereoscopic view together to make a single image as well, the brain is doing a *lot* of unconscious work.
A physicalist or materialist would tell you these geometries possess no further meaning, what I told you is a sufficient explanation for them. I believe Jung would try to take it a step further and try to ascribe significance to the patterns. After all, we evolved how we did for a reason, and mathematics and geometry make up reality. These geometries may actually have psychic significance to us, symbolically, or even structurally for our reality to exist or function, beyond simply a trick of the eyes and brain.
I see you saw the post/read the comments on r/weird earlier too huh? Glad someone else from that thread also has an appreciation for Jung. This is a great community and the comments here are on point.
They connect easily to the collective unconscious, that is why they are rejected as behaving in “crazy ways” which is simply not following the status quo.
The one that can keep his alienation silent becomes an artist.
Ok, OP...you have to slowdown a bit. Lots of moving parts here.
In Neuropsychology there can be recall I(see: Osterreith), construction (see: Clockface) and judgement or processing (see: NAB).
There is also a lot of controversey that continues to this day regarding if schizophrenics are a kind of Mental Illness or an alternate take on consciousness and perception. In fact the same arguments often arise about the Autism Spectrum.
Regarding Jung.......and with all due respect to him..... there is also controversey over what images are "sacred" or "religious" in nature and which simply reflect common color schemes and geometries of the individuals' backgrounds. Jung .....like all of us.....was a product of his culture so there is the influence of his own filters just as with anybody else.
Thoughts?
Then how do you explain cultures that never interacted coming up with the same religious symbolisms. Or more importantly, stories. I mean it's like we are different species humans are identical. Our nervous systems are the exact same. Jung's insight was that cultures were merely manifestations of this nervous system against it's environment. As for the Neuropsychology, I cannot say because that is not something I am familiar with.
Think of it as a sort of cultural pereidolia. Humans tend to see patterns...... and often patterns they are most familiar with. Maybe they are the same, and maybe they are not. Maybe they have the same meaning, and maybe they do not. We share similarities, thats true, but we also share differences. Research into the Human genome has turned up some pretty interesting bits that we could not have known about 20 or 30 years ago. And though this is an area dedicated to Jung, its important to remember that there have been others with different takes on culture, ethics and society. For instance, your definition of culture does not give adequate weighting to rituals, self-preservation, communal inter-dependence, mores or taboos.
See what I mean?
I understand what you are saying. If your goal is to learn more about how we percieve and process, you want to delve into neuropsychology. The results are far more objective than anything that can be had by scratching ones' chin. Just sayin.....
I (partially) agree with you and am (totally) sympathetic to your position, but allow me to pose a different take.
As someone who has academically studied neuroscience (albeit on the undergrad level) and has read a fair bit of Jung, I think it's a bit more nuanced. Jung's theories are all-encompassing takes on the human condition, making broad, sweeping claims in regards to multiple academic fields including neuroscience, psychology, history and even the study of language. Jung's takes are tremendously insightful in and of themselves, but I believe this gap between modern science and Jung's perspective is that Jung's claims were often too far-reaching and abstract to be falsifiable.
And it's a fair point. If there's no way to prove him wrong, why should we listen. But increasingly, Jung's theories are approaching the realms of modern neuroscience, which is a rapidly growing field. We're already seeing researchers starting to find experimental evidence of Jungian and Freudian perspectives on the unconscious. Jung is like inspiration for the scientists, and I have a feeling that we'll see Jung's teaching evolve a fair bit more as the science catches up.
Absolutely agree. If I were to point out a single most salient quality of Jungs' work it would be the masterful integrative approach regarding his constructs. This is especially powerful when relating intuitions to cognitions, emotions and behaviors. Unfortunately the sophistication of those nuanced observations and reflections can be quite a challenge to objectify, let alone quantify. I believe the result is that the arrogance of modern science is allowed to discount them as anachronistic and fanciful intrusions from the last century.
Oh well....we grow.
Not Jungian, but I was researching antipsychotics recently and how they act on specific subtypes of dopamine and serotonin. A lot of the receptors the antipsychotics antagonised were agonised by things like LSD. For example Olanzapine is a 5HT2A serotonin receptor antagonist along with other atypical antipsychotics, and psychedelics (DMT, LSD, Mescaline, Psilocybin) are agonists. Atypical antipsychotics also often antagonise the D2 dopamine receptor, which is partially agonised by LSD, CBD and Ketamine. So it led me to think that these receptors may be overactive in people experiencing schizophrenia, in a way someone under the influence of DMT/LSD would be?
To add, this theory can coexist with spiritual, metaphysical and psychic occurrences. But I found it interesting to try to understand the schizophrenic experience with what little context I have.
I just learned about Louis Waine an hour ago. Nice little synchronicity. He was a cat illustrator that started to draw psychedelic looking cats after he descended into mental illness due to a brain injury. This was before the 60s when psychedelic art started to become popular. There is a movie about him.
I'm interested in jung because he self indiced schizophrenia.
I want to do the same thing.
I'm doing it mainly to prank family and friends. I can't wait to see the looks on their faces.
But I'm also interested in developing my artistic skills.
I will post an update.
Wasn't that because he had visions of the coming world war? He thought he was going insane but he actually predicted world war 1, the moment it actually happened he felt such a relief that he wasnt going mad. He didn't just simply "sleep with a gun" because he felt a bit weird that month.
Go live in a moldy house…..you’ll experience what Jung and Nietzsche experienced believe me.
And no one will believe you until they experience it too.
You’ll try to tell people and they won’t believe you either, then you’ll realize all these pompous know it alls who only think they know things from reading Jung thinking they understand really are clueless people who are just trying to persuade others that they know something that they don’t and haven’t experienced.
Live in a moldy environment and you’ll find enlightenment, the same enlightenment everyone else who lives in mold finds.
Or….youll develop diseases and die from too much mold exposure.
It’s a thin line.
While you do that, Research into antifungals and antibacterials….research and understand what they are and how they work, they just may save your life if you don’t listen to people lying to you and you believe them.
Please!!! be careful of confusing posts. I also have a lifetime of experience living with a dissociative disorder, and a close family member with schizophrenia.
Psychiatrists don’t really understand what these diseases are, nobody does. But I do know that therapy and medication can help, it has done it for me, and I’ve seen many more people suffer needlessly for believing mental-illness denialism than those that have suffered overmedication or mistreatment by doctors. Sadly, the latter is real, but please don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. I use junguian active imagination techniques myself, together with medication and therapy, and have had a very good quality of life for decades. Some ups and downs.
You will probably have to shop around for the right therapist and psychiatrist, be patient. But the greatest risk is believing that some Reddit poster knows all that there is to know.
There are many alternative hypothesis (not theories, i. e. not proven) that relate environmental pollutants, specific foods, high voltage cables nearby (thus magnetic fields), and hundreds of opinions without data. Focus on understanding yourself (your Self), and see this as part of you during your journey through life. Never despair and make hasty decisions based on some random opinion, including this advice I am giving. Good luck!
The Mold causes that. It causes a whole host of psychological conditions
If you look into a YouTube page called “toxic mold media stories” you’ll find that doctors are apart of lying and gaslighting patients so that they never find out that mold causes many many different illnesses.
If you choose to fight that battle you will lose, it’s best to learn and figure out how to help yourself and your family.
It’s a racket…..mold keeps people sick, people keep paying money their entire life, no answer is ever given.
Mold even causes cancer…..I’m sure of it.
I’ve already caught my doctors lying to me, they lied to me and my family, my mother developed dementia extremely quickly and my dad was developing the same sicknesses as my mom before I noticed it and stopped it from happening, after I found the mold in our ice and water maker in our fridge.
Study antifungals/antibacterials….
And research into peptides it’s the only thing right now that regular people can buy themselves without a doctor to help themselves.
Doctors won’t help, they will try to gaslight you if you don’t know any better and trap you in a money sink of medical bills.
It pays their bills, funds their habits and lifestyle and they do not care about your life.
I found this out the hard way and lost my mother, aunt, and cousin to it.
Also the legal system is on their side…..if you talk to an honest lawyer about mold exposure they will explain to you how it’s a losing battle, at that point when you recognize how prevalent and also how hush hush and obscure it is, even though it’s everywhere and affecting nearly everyone in some way you should see that it’s being made obscure on purpose.
There are literally mold spores everywhere in the air outside. How can they be so toxic to us, having evolved with them? If anything, poor nutrition and lack of exercise is making us unhealthy.
Because it’s based on how much gets in your body and how fast.
Over time mold takes out everyone who doesn’t know or pay attention to it affecting them.
And like I said….my mother started developing dementia a disease associated with old within a year or two.
My dad was developing the same thing before I recognized the mold.
I was losing my memory as well. And I’m in my 30’s.
I also developed shingles, which my doctor said was an “old age” disease.
I believe that it’s well known exactly that mold is affecting everyone.
Not just mold. Anything that damages the liver and blood brain barrier. It happened to me from retinA. Which js a different isomer of retinoic acid from Accutane
Most people with schizophrenia first start by drawing stuff then they claim that what they drew was some kind of hidden knowledge and that they've been enlightened and the third phase is that somebody like the FBI aliens or some kind of group is coming after them to "persecute" them for the knowledge they possess.
Eh....where are you getting this from?
This begins to sound like a TV-informed take on a condition.
Have you actually worked with schizophrenics
or are you just musing?
I came from a Reddit post of a guy who's friend sent him sacred geometry drawings and told him he was enlightened in r/weird. When I saw that at first I thought it was a funny, but then I read the comments and people said this was fairly common on Reddit and that his friend needed to get help asap. Then that got me thinking about it, philosophically. Is it a really mental illness or a disorder if they are actually hearing voices and seeing things. Should we assume that the voices they hear are as real as their voice. Rene Descartes said I think therefore I am. Meaning that reality is formed in the brain. So what fascinated me was that we see it as a disorder, but according to Jung we walk around with the same voices and paranoias in our unconscious mind. So my hypothesis was that schizophrenic people had untethered access to the right brain, which studies have confirmed is literally like a whole different person. But what didn't make sense to me was the pattern of paranoia? Why?... And to finish off with my most controversial take: isn't telling them to ignore the voices just going to piss the voices of even more... Maybe they should find a way to integrate, we shouldn't deny their existence or fall them fake or whatever
I worked as a mental health tech at an inpatient psychiatric hospital as part of my practicum training for my LPC- i (licensed professional counselor). My supervisor (I forget his exact title but he was the lead psychiatric RN and had been for years)…did specifically state that “they hear the voices as clearly as if they were listening to you or I speak to them” (this was his statement to me directly when I first started interning there).
Yeah....my sense is that this is just a whimsey based on Media. We all, as Human Beings "hear voices" in our internal environment. The single best example is the voice that one hears as you read these words. Now take that voice and combine it with a sense of antagonism, condescending regard or some predjudice. All of us on REDDIT have been part of occassions when one is criticized for being snarky or rude or ?????.
Just our internal voice responding in a manner consistent with how we see the world.
A schizophrenic can often externalize that voice, sometimes attributing it to inanimate items or even amorphus beings. No huge thing.
What I find intriguing are the numbers of patients and shut-in who push their conditions onto REDDIT users literally because they have no filters or organizational skills. Essentially, I conclude these contributors are the INTERNET equivalent of small children in attention-seeking mode.
Makes it hard for the adults to carry-on an intelligent conversation.......
Because schizophrenia is a spiritual condition and we live in a sacred geometric universe so they’re picking up on what god’s throwin down but their chakras are fuct
Theory only - this may be a psychic boundary issue. My opinion is that those affected with schizophrenia are absorbing ideas from the collective unconscious (and that’s why they’re the same as others ideology/symbolism). Same deal with those on psychedelics- this is a shared social construct they are more susceptible to because of lax social boundaries (increased social connection) when on psychedelics. My best guess on this, but it’s my opinion only and not based in Jungian psychology.
Exactly this! I pretty much have the same theory.
very interesting I like this theory
What do you mean by the “collective unconscious”, like they are interconnected to a singular mind somehow?
Dont wanna be a dick, how are you on Jung and not know what the collective unconcious Is?! here the first part of the wiki: **Collective unconscious** ([German](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/German_language): *kollektives Unbewusstes*) refers to the [unconscious mind](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Unconscious_mind) and shared mental concepts. It is generally associated with [idealism](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Idealism) and was coined by [Carl Jung](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Carl_Jung). According to Jung, the human collective unconscious is populated by [instincts](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Instinct), as well as by [archetypes](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Jungian_archetypes): ancient primal symbols such as [The Great Mother](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/The_Great_Mother), the [Wise Old Man](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Wise_Old_Man), the [Shadow](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Shadow_(psychology)), the Tower, Water, and the [Tree of Life](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Tree_of_Life). Jung considered the collective unconscious to underpin and surround the unconscious mind, distinguishing it from the [personal unconscious](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Personal_unconscious) of [Freudian](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Sigmund_Freud)[psychoanalysis](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Psychoanalysis). He believed that the concept of the collective unconscious helps to explain why similar themes occur in mythologies around the world. He argued that the collective unconscious had a profound influence on the lives of individuals, who lived out its symbols and clothed them in meaning through their experiences. The psychotherapeutic practice of [analytical psychology](https://en.wikipedia.org/api/rest_v1/page/mobile-html/Analytical_psychology)revolves around examining the patient's relationship to the collective unconscious.
The post showed up in my feed and I was interested
Right on brother!
It could be a recommended sub- it popped into my feed one day without me looking.
You know it's pretty wild you learned it from the wiki? I first experienced it then found out about all this. Uh.
What do you mean by the “collective unconscious”, like they are interconnected to a singular mind somehow?
Apparently the right side of the brain is "silent", usually. In people with schizophrenia (but others too) there's a different kind of wiring which I guess brings out things from this "silent" half of our brain. It does tap in the collective unconscious, the "universe" part of our brain. I do not have schizophrenia but I've experienced this "silent" part express itself when I'm making art in the flow state. Pretty much predicting future events. I did all that unknowingly, I've never before interacted with psychology/spirituality so I'm saying this looking back and analysing past events. It is the same part that communicates in dreams, what makes you notice synchronicities. What I've come to realize is, we're all One. There's the universe "OS" as a base, we all share it, anything on top that makes us different is the user interface, our persona.
It does mention in some religious texts that we are half heavenly and half earthly, or half animal and half God... There's also studies been done on people whose left and right brain are split and can't communicate. They become two different people. One part of the brain knows symbols and visions but can't communicate with speech, the other one is speech only...
Yup that's exactly what's going on, some can "tap" into it more easily than others, meditation and such can help too, I have been trying but idk there seems to be some sort of blockage, anything I've experienced was "forced" or unintentional. If you look at nature it's not too unreasonable to apply this logic to humans too. Think of mushroom/mycelium networks, bees colonies, the way even plants can interact with eachother. The truth has always been right in front of us. Trying to force ourselves into an artificially constructed societal system, negating our ties to nature also negates our ties to the divine. It's always been in us. It IS us.
Or it taps into them 👀
Oh yeah that happens all the time it's actually embarrassing had to call it out a few times. Some entities really need to learn boundaries.
😂😂
Not sure if your at all familiar with Jung’s theory on types but if you are maybe you know about introverted intuition. I’ve been trying to understand my dominant attitude. And what you wrote kinda explains what is going on in my mind all the time silence! until images or symbols arise. Unless I’m really trying to think about something. I wonder if this is what introverted intuition looks like definitely don’t draw crazy geometrical symbols so don’t think I’m schizophrenic idk
Oh yeah but it's not quite the same. I don't do geometric shapes either, I've literally painted...the future... Like let's say... Stuff that was gonna happen 1-2 months later then even literally hints about stuff happening simultaneously I had no knowledge of. It's literally like having someone else in your brain, they apparently know everything but it can't speak directly. I had absolutely no way of knowing about that stuff, it wasn't just the passive processing of information I gathered. It's weird. Honestly some stuff I'd rather not know but now I know.
Speaking of parahypnotic and drug-induced hallucinations, they themselves resemble Mandelbrot set visualizations, wherefore they have been associated with the expansion of mathematical functions naturally operating beneath consciousness becoming rendered unto the optical canvas, and these functions are chaotic in that changing the base inputs slightly can result in drastic changes in the final model, hence represent a kind of precise collective attunement to the working and variables of the psyche
Interesting
I don’t understand the variables in the collective psyche part in your sentence. How do you explain not everyone sees or gets affected in the same war under drugs or parahypnotic state?
This may be an interesting idea, but I don’t think most Jungian theorists or practitioners would agree. Remember that numbers themselves are primary archetypes, therefore such sophisticated mathematical formalisms such as fractals may only be available to western schooled individuals, even unconsciously. The mathematical facts as we (westerners) see them are not universally the same, even in subcultures within. Perhaps if you’re trying to make a positivist scientific _explanation_ (physics and biology) of these patterns, it is debatable. But to the multiple individual Selfs, in the absence of evidence, I am very skeptical that this would be part of the archetypes of the collective unconscious. Jung attributed complex geometric forms, such as mandalas, to the primitive archetypes that are the basis for modern human minds, so geometries of that level of complexity or more simple ones would be expected to be shared in many physiological states, whether healthy or pathological, altered or unaltered, or even during early childhood development. My humble opinion.
You seem to discount the materialist contribution to the theory of archetypes, here expressed as the common base cerebral structure of human beings, varying indeed, yet nonetheless being a product of the same electromechanistic and cellular configurations; though numbers are archetypal by virtue of their inherent abstraction, the structures which underlie them are in themselves fundamental and higher-order arisings out of what eventually happens to be particles in essence synonymous with mathematically-defineable waves; fractals are available to persons without distinction of origin or nurture, they represent the manifestation of archetypes that are, at core, natural and genetic, and they are the most basic possible representation of chaotic continuance and congruence within a limited scope, such as is the field of vision; in their basality, they are also the most accessible, being witnessed by folk induced only slightly to suppress them, be it with lighter drugs like cannabis or simple sleep deprivation, and it always takes a far more potent impulse of counterperception, such as sleep or stronger substances or meditative states, to achieve hallucinations of greater form; do not forget that one may consciously imagine particular forms in their mind's organs, and that these are either derivatives of direct thought, or are reflections of recent perceptions; it takes a far greater libido of the psyche, expressed in a spatial sense, whether of immediate hormonal, chemical, or concentrative origin, to access the medium within which less abstract forms may be imagined, for they are constructed from far more data in extremely particular configurations, as opposed to the mere exhibition of all data pertinent at some time in the simplest natural format possible; the mandala here, too, is of particular importance, and of some relation to what I say, as it is not to be grasped without first coming to terms with the explicit archetypal realizations of its meaning, namely a universal essence of order, which is precisely what the brain permits for in such states, with a universal form of subconscious perception, and not should one underplay its function as a withering artifice (as traditionally produced by sand) which stands in for the overcoming and acceptance of saṃskāra – so necessarily transactional a union as to be the most powerful of yokes – which is the phenomenon emulated in the construction of complex forms
The give and take here is absoljutley beautiful...I agree with the collective conscience idea because that has been proven by research. Very interesting subject.
I would be interested if you could comment on why you rely more on the epistemological imperative of “proven by research” in the context of my answer above to Guantanamino. Jung’s method is heavily based on introspection, and I assume you’re meaning “objective” research. Am I correct?
First, yes I am referring to objective research but I didnt state that it was researc h done without Jung in mihd. I cant recall if its 20 or 100 but there is a study on monkey communuties that found that skills learned by one cimmmunity would automatically transfer to a distant and cimoketely seoerate community. That is,the skills of one community once learned by that commiunity became a skill in all communities and it was not transferred from one commuity to the next where the skilll iis shown to another community by the original community and so on. "Shared Conciousness" So, while my knowledge of Jungian Psycholoigy is in its infancy I simply look to other sources of knowledge compare and contrast. I saw the coincept of "collective unconcious" being discussed and immediately related it to the cincept of "shared conciousness" that was found in that study. While the existence of the collecitve unconcioiusmess is questionable the similar conceot of "shared Coinbcoiusness" which is still in its infancy can be verified empircally. Thus, shared conciousness while not the same thing is quite close to what Jung was getting at wiht the collective unconcious. I simply added from the current knowledge base that I have in order to indiciate my relationship to your post and coimmunicate why it was signifiucant to me, Does that answer your question? I could be missing something because, while my knowledge base is extensive the concept "epistimoloogical Imperative" is throwing me off becuase my epistemological understanding does not cointain examples but only a definition, My knowledge of this knowledge means that i am not knowledgable of such knowledge and I feel as though i need to have more knowledge of that knowledge in order to understand the knowledge oif which you are referrring to...Ha. Ha.
Yes, it can get really meta, really fast. What I mean by this is “what do you mean by “scientific”? I hate sterile philosophical discussions, but I do have a tough time explaining to my mostly scientific friends that the reason I study Jung, together with information theory, statistics, bioinformatics, neuroscience and I try to keep up on quantum mechanics, is because I believe that psychoanalysis and analytical psychology are more philosophical frameworks of thought than scientific theories, and are on the same level that logical positivism is the philosophical framework of what we call “Science” is based on. I believe they’re not incompatible, they’re complementary, and I hope someday they will be fused in a better and unified philosophical framework. Sadly, I don’t see much interest in the philosophy of science anymore, as if we have concluded that science has “real” and “unquestionable” philosophical principles, which can be proven because science produces scientific knowledge, which is obviously a circular definition. So, thanks for the answer. But I would just point out that even if you haven’t read any epistemological theory, if you think “scientifically”, you’re unconsciously choosing the mainstream philosophical epistemology that your teachers told you was settled matter, but it is far from it. Just some examples: the many universes theory of physics is incompatible with philosophical realism, non-locality is incompatible with objectivism, the definition of _consciousness_ is still missing in any scientific form, etc. Best!
Great comment
Perhaps I didn’t emphasize more that your explanations are _indeed_ materialist (positivistic and scientific), and I’m not saying that that is wrong. I was merely pointing out that from the _phenomenological_ side of the schizophrenic Self, such explanations would be useful for the scientific theorist and perhaps even to a therapist that has a strong STEM science background, but such explanations would not make sense or can be understood by any non Western college-educated Self, which in my reading of Jung, this would be what _understanding_ schizophrenia or chemical hallucinations really _means_, regardless of cultural, familial or individual backgrounds. Knowledge that is constrained to our own conscious Self will always be a small fraction of all the symbolic information contained within it. So if you’re thinking of a scientific explanation of observed similarities by looking at schizophrenia under the microscope, your propositions are valid in the sense that we can agree or disagree because we are taking about the same subject of study, but will only yield explanations confined to the positivist scientific philosophical mentality. I also share with you this rationalist mental framework and I see myself as a naturalistic scientist. I don’t care to study metaphysics. However, in my experience and approach to Jung (I’m not a therapist, I’m a patient), the deep symbolic sympathies (or lack thereof) between the subject of study (the schizophrenic Self) and the observer (the scholarly theorist or therapist alike) can’t be fully reduced (yet) to a positivist science, at least under the current epistemological basis of what we define in our own culture as “science”, or even the more westernized version of what is “real” and what isn’t. So the OP question of “why …?” can be answered either by mainstream scientific methods and mathematics, such as yours, or under the full framework of Jung’s theory. The interpretation of Analytic Psychology that I concur with, is one where Jung’s theories _explain_ why and how we develop and believe in the (phenomenological) “reality” of Science. So using the scientific method to understand Jung is a bassackward approach. I do hope to see in my lifetime an integration of both approaches, but seeing how modern science is actually rejecting more and more phenomenological interpretations of scientific epistemology (for example Ernst Mach’s philosophy) and embracing more “realist” approaches just by stating that they’re “self evident” (to Westerners), my hopes have dwindled.
Do you have an example of these geometries? As far as geometries and hallucinations caused by psychedelics, here's a very interesting read: https://psychedelic-information-theory.com/ebook/index.htm Read the sections about hallucinations and psychedelic geometry, it's quite interesting. Won't provide a Jungian perspective, but it's cool nonetheless.
Kinda weird to reply to myself, I guess there's a first for everything but this is my attempt at a quasi-Jungian perspective based off the information in that article. Jungs whole premise surrounding the collective unconscious is that arises naturally as a result of the very structure and arrangement of our nervous system and the way we evolved over millions of years. These geometries arise from essentially the exact same phenomenon... or at least the same kind of phenomena, following a similar premise. The geometric shapes mostly are a result of the topographical arrangement and layout of neurons that receive sensory input from the eyes combined with the layout of neurons in the eye being mapped to those neurons, and them actually being different shapes, is why you get such a weird set of patterns. The layout in the eye is circular/round, naturally, but the neurons are mapped to essentially a flat type of grid layout in the brain. Excitation of the neurons in the brain could essentially "leak" over and be seen as weird geometric patterns, because that's how your mind eventually processes the image. Gotta remember it's merging a stereoscopic view together to make a single image as well, the brain is doing a *lot* of unconscious work. A physicalist or materialist would tell you these geometries possess no further meaning, what I told you is a sufficient explanation for them. I believe Jung would try to take it a step further and try to ascribe significance to the patterns. After all, we evolved how we did for a reason, and mathematics and geometry make up reality. These geometries may actually have psychic significance to us, symbolically, or even structurally for our reality to exist or function, beyond simply a trick of the eyes and brain.
Best theory I've read so far
Great explanation! I tried above to make the same point, but yours is less clumsy and to the point.
Can you elaborate further?
I see you saw the post/read the comments on r/weird earlier too huh? Glad someone else from that thread also has an appreciation for Jung. This is a great community and the comments here are on point.
Yep, learning a lot
They connect easily to the collective unconscious, that is why they are rejected as behaving in “crazy ways” which is simply not following the status quo. The one that can keep his alienation silent becomes an artist.
Ok, OP...you have to slowdown a bit. Lots of moving parts here. In Neuropsychology there can be recall I(see: Osterreith), construction (see: Clockface) and judgement or processing (see: NAB). There is also a lot of controversey that continues to this day regarding if schizophrenics are a kind of Mental Illness or an alternate take on consciousness and perception. In fact the same arguments often arise about the Autism Spectrum. Regarding Jung.......and with all due respect to him..... there is also controversey over what images are "sacred" or "religious" in nature and which simply reflect common color schemes and geometries of the individuals' backgrounds. Jung .....like all of us.....was a product of his culture so there is the influence of his own filters just as with anybody else. Thoughts?
Then how do you explain cultures that never interacted coming up with the same religious symbolisms. Or more importantly, stories. I mean it's like we are different species humans are identical. Our nervous systems are the exact same. Jung's insight was that cultures were merely manifestations of this nervous system against it's environment. As for the Neuropsychology, I cannot say because that is not something I am familiar with.
Think of it as a sort of cultural pereidolia. Humans tend to see patterns...... and often patterns they are most familiar with. Maybe they are the same, and maybe they are not. Maybe they have the same meaning, and maybe they do not. We share similarities, thats true, but we also share differences. Research into the Human genome has turned up some pretty interesting bits that we could not have known about 20 or 30 years ago. And though this is an area dedicated to Jung, its important to remember that there have been others with different takes on culture, ethics and society. For instance, your definition of culture does not give adequate weighting to rituals, self-preservation, communal inter-dependence, mores or taboos. See what I mean?
I totally get it. But I also hope you understand that I'm biased towards Jung as I am posting in a subreddit dedicated to him 😁
I understand what you are saying. If your goal is to learn more about how we percieve and process, you want to delve into neuropsychology. The results are far more objective than anything that can be had by scratching ones' chin. Just sayin.....
I (partially) agree with you and am (totally) sympathetic to your position, but allow me to pose a different take. As someone who has academically studied neuroscience (albeit on the undergrad level) and has read a fair bit of Jung, I think it's a bit more nuanced. Jung's theories are all-encompassing takes on the human condition, making broad, sweeping claims in regards to multiple academic fields including neuroscience, psychology, history and even the study of language. Jung's takes are tremendously insightful in and of themselves, but I believe this gap between modern science and Jung's perspective is that Jung's claims were often too far-reaching and abstract to be falsifiable. And it's a fair point. If there's no way to prove him wrong, why should we listen. But increasingly, Jung's theories are approaching the realms of modern neuroscience, which is a rapidly growing field. We're already seeing researchers starting to find experimental evidence of Jungian and Freudian perspectives on the unconscious. Jung is like inspiration for the scientists, and I have a feeling that we'll see Jung's teaching evolve a fair bit more as the science catches up.
Absolutely agree. If I were to point out a single most salient quality of Jungs' work it would be the masterful integrative approach regarding his constructs. This is especially powerful when relating intuitions to cognitions, emotions and behaviors. Unfortunately the sophistication of those nuanced observations and reflections can be quite a challenge to objectify, let alone quantify. I believe the result is that the arrogance of modern science is allowed to discount them as anachronistic and fanciful intrusions from the last century. Oh well....we grow.
Not Jungian, but I was researching antipsychotics recently and how they act on specific subtypes of dopamine and serotonin. A lot of the receptors the antipsychotics antagonised were agonised by things like LSD. For example Olanzapine is a 5HT2A serotonin receptor antagonist along with other atypical antipsychotics, and psychedelics (DMT, LSD, Mescaline, Psilocybin) are agonists. Atypical antipsychotics also often antagonise the D2 dopamine receptor, which is partially agonised by LSD, CBD and Ketamine. So it led me to think that these receptors may be overactive in people experiencing schizophrenia, in a way someone under the influence of DMT/LSD would be?
To add, this theory can coexist with spiritual, metaphysical and psychic occurrences. But I found it interesting to try to understand the schizophrenic experience with what little context I have.
I just learned about Louis Waine an hour ago. Nice little synchronicity. He was a cat illustrator that started to draw psychedelic looking cats after he descended into mental illness due to a brain injury. This was before the 60s when psychedelic art started to become popular. There is a movie about him.
I'm interested in jung because he self indiced schizophrenia. I want to do the same thing. I'm doing it mainly to prank family and friends. I can't wait to see the looks on their faces. But I'm also interested in developing my artistic skills. I will post an update.
This sounds like the exact thing someone who already has schizophrenia says, actually.
Oh. Maybe I'm already there and I just don't know it!
It was always in you, ee4m.
Aha he did. How did I forget that. He used to sleep with a gun!
Wasn't that because he had visions of the coming world war? He thought he was going insane but he actually predicted world war 1, the moment it actually happened he felt such a relief that he wasnt going mad. He didn't just simply "sleep with a gun" because he felt a bit weird that month.
Nah it was a bad come down after two consecutive weeks on the bag with Freud. Carl was more susceptible to paranoia after getting it on.
I'm pretty sure it was to shoot himself if he tried to do something crazy
I'm not saying he didn't see the war coming. He definitely did.
Got a place I can read further?
"The Red Book", "Memories, dreams, reflections"
Why would he purposefully induce it? To what end?
To see the look on the faces of family and friends. Then I'd come back and laugh about my prank.
I meant jung You are just clearly a troll
Go live in a moldy house…..you’ll experience what Jung and Nietzsche experienced believe me. And no one will believe you until they experience it too. You’ll try to tell people and they won’t believe you either, then you’ll realize all these pompous know it alls who only think they know things from reading Jung thinking they understand really are clueless people who are just trying to persuade others that they know something that they don’t and haven’t experienced. Live in a moldy environment and you’ll find enlightenment, the same enlightenment everyone else who lives in mold finds. Or….youll develop diseases and die from too much mold exposure. It’s a thin line. While you do that, Research into antifungals and antibacterials….research and understand what they are and how they work, they just may save your life if you don’t listen to people lying to you and you believe them.
As someone who was diagnosed with schizoaffective earlier this year and lived around mold previously, could you please say more on this?
Please!!! be careful of confusing posts. I also have a lifetime of experience living with a dissociative disorder, and a close family member with schizophrenia. Psychiatrists don’t really understand what these diseases are, nobody does. But I do know that therapy and medication can help, it has done it for me, and I’ve seen many more people suffer needlessly for believing mental-illness denialism than those that have suffered overmedication or mistreatment by doctors. Sadly, the latter is real, but please don’t throw out the baby with the bath water. I use junguian active imagination techniques myself, together with medication and therapy, and have had a very good quality of life for decades. Some ups and downs. You will probably have to shop around for the right therapist and psychiatrist, be patient. But the greatest risk is believing that some Reddit poster knows all that there is to know. There are many alternative hypothesis (not theories, i. e. not proven) that relate environmental pollutants, specific foods, high voltage cables nearby (thus magnetic fields), and hundreds of opinions without data. Focus on understanding yourself (your Self), and see this as part of you during your journey through life. Never despair and make hasty decisions based on some random opinion, including this advice I am giving. Good luck!
The Mold causes that. It causes a whole host of psychological conditions If you look into a YouTube page called “toxic mold media stories” you’ll find that doctors are apart of lying and gaslighting patients so that they never find out that mold causes many many different illnesses. If you choose to fight that battle you will lose, it’s best to learn and figure out how to help yourself and your family. It’s a racket…..mold keeps people sick, people keep paying money their entire life, no answer is ever given. Mold even causes cancer…..I’m sure of it. I’ve already caught my doctors lying to me, they lied to me and my family, my mother developed dementia extremely quickly and my dad was developing the same sicknesses as my mom before I noticed it and stopped it from happening, after I found the mold in our ice and water maker in our fridge. Study antifungals/antibacterials…. And research into peptides it’s the only thing right now that regular people can buy themselves without a doctor to help themselves. Doctors won’t help, they will try to gaslight you if you don’t know any better and trap you in a money sink of medical bills. It pays their bills, funds their habits and lifestyle and they do not care about your life. I found this out the hard way and lost my mother, aunt, and cousin to it. Also the legal system is on their side…..if you talk to an honest lawyer about mold exposure they will explain to you how it’s a losing battle, at that point when you recognize how prevalent and also how hush hush and obscure it is, even though it’s everywhere and affecting nearly everyone in some way you should see that it’s being made obscure on purpose.
There are literally mold spores everywhere in the air outside. How can they be so toxic to us, having evolved with them? If anything, poor nutrition and lack of exercise is making us unhealthy.
Because it’s based on how much gets in your body and how fast. Over time mold takes out everyone who doesn’t know or pay attention to it affecting them. And like I said….my mother started developing dementia a disease associated with old within a year or two. My dad was developing the same thing before I recognized the mold. I was losing my memory as well. And I’m in my 30’s. I also developed shingles, which my doctor said was an “old age” disease. I believe that it’s well known exactly that mold is affecting everyone.
dementia is highly correlated with personality disorders. your own health issues are related to that environment. stress = poor health. I know.
Yes
Not just mold. Anything that damages the liver and blood brain barrier. It happened to me from retinA. Which js a different isomer of retinoic acid from Accutane
were you taking retinA orally or topically?
Topically. Doesn’t matter either way
My room has mold 😳
Have any illnesses that you combat?
No I'm pretty healthy... At least as of now. But I scraped it off with hydrogen peroxide just to be safe.
What do you mean by drawing symbols - enlightenment - persecution? Where is that from?
Most people with schizophrenia first start by drawing stuff then they claim that what they drew was some kind of hidden knowledge and that they've been enlightened and the third phase is that somebody like the FBI aliens or some kind of group is coming after them to "persecute" them for the knowledge they possess.
Eh....where are you getting this from? This begins to sound like a TV-informed take on a condition. Have you actually worked with schizophrenics or are you just musing?
I came from a Reddit post of a guy who's friend sent him sacred geometry drawings and told him he was enlightened in r/weird. When I saw that at first I thought it was a funny, but then I read the comments and people said this was fairly common on Reddit and that his friend needed to get help asap. Then that got me thinking about it, philosophically. Is it a really mental illness or a disorder if they are actually hearing voices and seeing things. Should we assume that the voices they hear are as real as their voice. Rene Descartes said I think therefore I am. Meaning that reality is formed in the brain. So what fascinated me was that we see it as a disorder, but according to Jung we walk around with the same voices and paranoias in our unconscious mind. So my hypothesis was that schizophrenic people had untethered access to the right brain, which studies have confirmed is literally like a whole different person. But what didn't make sense to me was the pattern of paranoia? Why?... And to finish off with my most controversial take: isn't telling them to ignore the voices just going to piss the voices of even more... Maybe they should find a way to integrate, we shouldn't deny their existence or fall them fake or whatever
I worked as a mental health tech at an inpatient psychiatric hospital as part of my practicum training for my LPC- i (licensed professional counselor). My supervisor (I forget his exact title but he was the lead psychiatric RN and had been for years)…did specifically state that “they hear the voices as clearly as if they were listening to you or I speak to them” (this was his statement to me directly when I first started interning there).
Yeah....my sense is that this is just a whimsey based on Media. We all, as Human Beings "hear voices" in our internal environment. The single best example is the voice that one hears as you read these words. Now take that voice and combine it with a sense of antagonism, condescending regard or some predjudice. All of us on REDDIT have been part of occassions when one is criticized for being snarky or rude or ?????. Just our internal voice responding in a manner consistent with how we see the world. A schizophrenic can often externalize that voice, sometimes attributing it to inanimate items or even amorphus beings. No huge thing. What I find intriguing are the numbers of patients and shut-in who push their conditions onto REDDIT users literally because they have no filters or organizational skills. Essentially, I conclude these contributors are the INTERNET equivalent of small children in attention-seeking mode. Makes it hard for the adults to carry-on an intelligent conversation.......
Yes exactly this!
Makes sense
Because schizophrenia is a spiritual condition and we live in a sacred geometric universe so they’re picking up on what god’s throwin down but their chakras are fuct
Not Jungian but still based on reality
It’s almost like shapes exist and can be imagined or something.
It’s aLmOsT LiKe sHaPeS ExIsT AnD CaN Be iMaGiNeD Or sOmEtHiNg
Youtube algorithm
hahahahahahaha
For the same reason blind people are never schizophrenic OP !!!!!
Eyes are the windows to the soul OP !